Outlander: Blood of My Blood S1E5 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #374

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Michelle and Dina and we are discussing episode 5 of Outlander Blood of My Blood. We are at the halfway point of Season 1 and I'm going to go ahead and let Michelle get started because I know she got things to say. About this episode, how you got you, Michelle? OK, so wait a second. Now I got to go back into the stuff that I said, OK, the MO. I don't even know where to begin. Let's just go ahead and get Mercer out of the way because. That's it. I had the screen and I turn the TV off and I say I can't do this. I'm not gonna be able to continue watching this show. That man was hurt.

1:13 He was hurt. And all the time. Your friend Brian could have told you. He could have told you when he said, oh, why you up so early? You won't leave without me. And he's sitting here pouring his heart out about this girl, Brian. You could have said something then to have him come and see it, to see it. My heart was broken. That was real. And then you get your butt beat an hour later. That was harsh too, like there was literally no reason for that. Like it wasn't arch bug is but. We know.

1:55 I mean we've already established arch bug is just an asshole. He's just an asshole. Just be an asshole. He is have to do that but I mean did he go beat up? Did he go beat up the other guys who stood up for for the making? No, he just he did because Merta was the 1st. Yeah, but Merta must have later learned some fighting skills, 'cause I'm like, dude, you are so much better older. You you think? I think it's also 'cause he was drunk. And and he. Was drunk too. He was, but he has has not been hardened yet. Yeah, that's true. You can see it coming. That's true.

2:36 You can see it like after that probably, you know, this might be where the term for Merta is. You know, I'm not saying that's where he just became hard, but he probably was like, OK, you know what, I'm too. I'm too soft. This will make you hard because your best friend who you literally every time y'all are together, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen, Ellen and he over there like, OK, you can find you another woman. Oh, OK, Ella, Ella, Ella. And then I see y'all kissing. Oh man. Yeah, I, I will say this the the way that is, the way that it's gone down.

3:17 And then thinking about the future at the the regular Outlander show, again, going back to the whole thing, every time we hear Martha talk about Jamie's parents, he mainly only talks about Ella. He almost never mentions Brian. That's a good. Thing I feel like that probably broke the friendship but because he yeah but but because he loved Ellen so much he you know when they named him godfather maybe that was kind of the the olive branch for Brian towards mertha I it's. Giving a little snappy but not creepy snake, but like. And and the same party is though and we see it that way and it only it side note come out of the show. It could be because she didn't have them as friends initially. And then in writing the show, you think maybe they decide to make them friends.

4:15 It's it's possible. Again, I know that she is actually she is writing a Brian and Ellen book. Yeah. But you you see what I'm saying? Like it when before it was like, oh, he was a family friend, but she never like really put him with anyone except for Ellen. And now when you can really flush out the story, it would be good a story if he was friends. And maybe that's why I'm just hoping that is the reason why I don't see how they can recover. I I can't they could have recovered if he said something. Yeah, earlier on, like I met someone too. And I'm thinking we are talking about the same woman name, person. Yeah, yeah, play it off. I'm really thinking about same woman, especially since does my have red hair? Does yours have like play it off? Yeah.

5:01 Yeah. But every time you. Do things. You mentioned Ellen by name at first. No, he could have played it off. Oh, I didn't realize this was who you had. And then at that point, Martha really can't get mad because you've never even spoken a word to this woman. Which, yeah, it it's just, I hate that's the amount this way. Yeah. Yeah. That's the other part that kind of sucks, yes. It's like you honestly don't even know her. So it's not like he literally stole your woman, right? Like I get, I get the point of him being hurt 'cause Brian, what Brian did was crappy, but I know Brian was. Brian was afraid, you know, he knew it was gonna hurt him and he was afraid. So I get that.

5:43 But like, it's not like he took this woman from that woman. Ain't no he was alive, right and and had no care in her heart for him at all. So he was living on a fantasy and a dream. And heard Brian didn't plan this. Yeah, they fell in love by accident. You know, they crossed paths by accident. And again, I think the reason why Ellen probably was drawn to Brian was because Brian was the one person who wasn't trying to hit on her. Yeah. He was the one person who was just trying to be, you know, off hidden, not be bothered. And she maybe found a kindred spirit in that. Yeah. But I mean, and, and even though we, we can sit here and justify all of this stuff, we and we understand both sides. But either way it goes, it still sucks that this is the way Mercer had to find out.

6:35 I mean, I was like. Right, because I feel like this if Brian has said something to Martha and was like, hey, so about that Ellen girl that you were talking about. So I met a girl at the at Leoch and we we kind of we talked a little bit. We fell in love and I didn't realize it was your Ellen until now. I'm so sorry, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He could have done that, and then maybe Martha could have understood that, and Martha could have turned his attentions elsewhere, like maybe Jacosta, you know, instead of.

7:15 Just. But she was married too, so. When she was married. Still married too. We'll, we'll, we'll get to that 'cause I got some thoughts about that whole thing too. But it's like I, I feel like Brian, he could have handled it better. But again, we are also talking about some, I don't want to say immature, but it's like they are not as I don't know what the word I want to use is. I don't think, yeah, I just don't think Brian knew how to fix that situation. Because again, everything that we know about Brian, he's always been stand up. He's always been honest.

7:57 He's always been, like, loyal. Of course, now we're seeing this in a different light. But when you are that type of person and you know that the one thing, the one thing that you didn't count on, the one thing that has happened is the thing that's going to hurt that person. Like, how do you figure out how to do that? I just don't think he knew how to handle that because it was so unexpected, you know? Yeah. Poor Mercy. He's hurt. I want to give him credit, but I still don't give him credit. He's still going to say something to his for you. No. That's true. He's still trying. I'm trying because you you, you you real good and y'all finding lovely hiding places and places to, you know, do what y'all need to do so you can you can figure out how to tell your friend. I'm just saying.

8:46 Ruined. I'm just saying, you know, we'll talk about the ruin me later. OK. I want to finish out with Mercer because I mean, it's and it's just, it gets it goes from bad to worse for him because like you said, he comes out of his tent, he's drunk. He bumps into Arch Bug, and then Arch is the one who sits here. He was like, oh, you don't want to challenge my, my master at the for making. Oh, you got to eye on his woman, blah, blah, blah. And and he beats Martha up and it's like, you can clearly see this man is drunk. Yeah. OK. Now, granted, Martha shot off at the mouth, which we do know Martha is good for doing sometimes.

9:27 And he was like, oh, yeah, you know, I'm not the only one who had an eye for her. And he don't deserve her anyway, which all of these things are true, but he could have just left Martha alone. He can let Martha just, you know, sit in his cups and just sit in his feelings and be done with it. But no, you have to add insult to injury by beating them up. And I was looking at this. I was like, OK, so I mean it's not unexpected because it's arch bug, but still it's just kind of like Martha's had enough. He's had nothing there. And then later on you get you get into this whole thing with Jacosta and it seems like you bout to take your mind off stuff and then you call her Ellen's name which I felt bad but only moment.

10:20 I did too. I, I, I'm not, I don't really care for Jacosta right now. I just, I don't. I'm OK with her. I I was OK with her because of the conversation in the buggy. I was OK because now you know where she's coming from. You do you have to think about it in her eyes. First of all, you got to, we have to go back. We got to go back. First of all, how your daddy is right. Your sister's the favorite right there. That's the issue. Second of all, you knew your sister was involved with you getting a suitor. You don't know how she was involved 'cause she never talked to you about it to currently now and she's saying, well, I was trying to help you get away from other people.

11:04 Yeah, I didn't know that at the time. For me, I'm looking like you, you running things and I get this old ass man Cameron. But everybody is getting old ass. Man, back then, right? But still, your sister was involved. Your sister doesn't have to get married. Right. And and she didn't have to get married. Yeah. Yeah. So you don't know until she telling you now. Like, no, there was other people who was just way worse than that. I was trying to help. Well, at the time she didn't know that. She just thinking the girl of privilege. Yeah, I'm not with Cameron, who I'm just supposed to look pretty and all that, but I feel it's Acosta 'cause she's like, what happens?

11:45 We gonna keep it here, so she going to go look. But that's the. Thing that bothers me about her is 'cause she acts like she's so pure, but as soon as she got her sister was just like, look, go get yours. I ain't gonna say nothing. Well, I go get mine if you can make a deal. She was like, OK, fine, let's go. With Mertel since episode. One. Yeah, yeah. So like. I don't know. She needed a reason. Yeah, yeah, right. I don't. Well, she, she, she needed a way to do it without getting in trouble. Right, that that too. And I don't have a problem with her doing that because yes, Jacosta is married. But again, let's talk about this. These are arranged marriages. These are not love matches. She is married to somebody who's probably old.

12:26 Enough to be Oh no, I'm all for, I'm all for what she was trying to do. I'm I'm all for. I don't have a. Problem I'm gonna deal. With her, yeah. However, I wasn't mad at her when she was like OK I keep your secret. Can't get Mama's necklace though, no? No, no, no, no, but even before that, like just her pettiness and her just, I don't know, it's like you want to sit here and and be all nasty and snarky to your sister, which yes, there are some some reasons and I get it. But then you sit here and you want to be, you want to be nasty to her and say things to her and then want to get mad at her when she comes back at you like, you know, you want to talk about, Oh yeah, you going to have some bears and stuff.

13:08 She's like, Oh yeah, I see you ain't had none yet. And you want to get mad at her. But you. See. Well, see, that was low. That was slow though. Don't be, don't be talking about my infertility. Don't be talking about my infertility. That ain't that. See, you had to go that low. See you still free. You just now had to marry someone. And I'm just talking about you being an old maid because you are a old maid. She had to bring out and I'm an old maid too, with no kids. But you had to. You had to say that now. But that's the thing about Jakasa, I don't like she can't handle what she dish out like. Yeah, that's true. Treating your sister like complete trash because to be fair, other than her maybe marrying her off, which is something that even Ellen didn't know was a problem. She has been so bitchy to her and just for no just pop cause the younger sister, the other sister ain't bitching towards her right?

13:57 So like Jacosta has her own feelings and she ain't clearly ain't never talked to her about it. And then you come snapping out the mouth. Are you a old man? You get your dad trying to tear her down and then she's like, oh, but you can't have no baby. So who who got the real problem? You know, like, yeah, but. Brilliant. The whole thing about when I and then when she's there talking to Malcolm and she was like, oh, yes, I'm I'm pleased to be reunited. Oh, no, she, she's being modest. She's been talking about you, the hallway bitch. Well, that helps though, for her to do that. But friends, listen, we know Ellen has won, OK? She got the love of her life. She got the all the men in the town chasing her. And Takasa got what? What does she have?

14:39 Old man Cameron can't even get a mama's necklace, OK? That's all she has is her, is her bitterness and her snarkiness. That's all she got. Let her have it. Let her have it. And then that man called her name. He called another woman's. Name that's her fault, because she know that she knew that man was in love with her. Sister, that's her fault, but I'm just all the men are so that. So where you go from here? She should have left. She should have lived well enough. Alone, she was just trying to find some tenderness. She wanted to be wanted to. And I and I get that. But you know what? I do get that. I, I get it. But you knew that man was in love with your sister.

15:20 Yeah, but for but for the emotional trophy, Ellen again wins. She gonna win. Jacosta has nothing. But here's the thing. Maybe Jacosta's lie? And she becomes blind. I mean, we got to get, we got to kill a little bit for her and she becomes blind. That's yeah, just a little bit, just just. Just because because the, and the whole thing with Jacosta is, and this is even in the future, Jacosta is one of those people. She's all about the, the, she's about the reputation. She's about the, the, you know, the riches and all. She's about the status that. I mean, you can tell that from the first conversation or the first thing that she says to, to Ellen in the the cart, she was like, Oh yeah, look at all this being done for you that you think you sit here thinking about the gowns and stuff and Ellen's like, ain't none of that on my mind.

16:15 And I think that's one of the things that I really, I guess I don't like about Jacosta because all of the things that she values, she's mad because all of that stuff is coming towards her sister and her sister don't care about it. Like she right there about none of that stuff. And that's why I really do feel, I feel sorry for her, because that is if, if I've got his name already, Red John. What's his name? Big Red, Red Jacob, Red Jacob, Red Jacob. If Red Jacob really did his job as a father, you wouldn't have this issue. Because ultimately, yeah, You had two sons. You treat them like trash. Then you have these daughters.

16:56 You treat one. I'm sorry. You treat one above all other kids. That does affect the other kid growing up. No, it's not right for her to feel that way, but that's all she has. But Janet doesn't have that problem. She was brought up like that. Who? Ellen Who? But Janet didn't have as long of the. Janet's experience is going to be different. Is she younger? Every child's experience. All of them are younger, right? Well, this Jacosta is the young. Jacosta is the. Baby, is she the baby baby or the other one's the baby? Baby No, Jacosta is the baby. OK, so everyone's experience within the family unit is different. Did Jacosta when did Mama die?

17:41 Was Mama died died because of Jacosta? Like what we got to know we need to cost the story. I don't think we need the story. Yeah, but she. Could have been raised that you know what, you're beautiful, 'cause she's beautiful, you're beautiful and that's what you're going to be and you're going to be someone's trophy and you need to surround yourself with riches. Ellen wasn't taught that. Ellen was taught strategy war term like she was taught to rule. But yeah, no hurt. I feel like Jacosta is beautiful. She just doesn't know that she's beautiful because everybody's so obsessed with what's going on with with Ellen. And part of the reason why, other than her just being pretty, obviously, but part of the reason I feel like people really are drawn to Ellen is because she had that relationship with Red Jacob.

18:33 So she's so independent and she's so strong minded and she's like you said before, nobody can get to her. So that's why they want her. Whereas Jacosta, she's beautiful. She, she, her husband gonna ask at some point, like go marry somebody else, like whatever. But like, I feel like she just heard not being wanted, not because she's not beautiful, but just not having that saying whatever, fire, whatever, 'cause she's a different personality. I, I feel like that's hard for her because, you know, as I don't know, I mean, it's hard to explain what I'm trying to get to, but like there's something about how she envies her that's not just about her beauty. It's, it's just, it's like the whole package of everything. Ellen stands.

19:20 For. She hates because she doesn't have how that blinder 'cause she's pretty too, so she could have had any. Probably had her pick too. But she was nobody was chance. Right. Yeah, but nobody was checking for her like that because Red Jacob put auto focus on Ellen, you know, And so I don't know, it's hard to explain what I'm trying to get you, but. No, you're right. And I guess I have to, I, I kind of have to separate because it's like the older Jacosta too. Like she has her moments, but for the most part, I don't really care for her either just because of the way that she is, the way that she treats people who are under her or that she looks at as under her. Like she has had this, she has a bit of a superiority complex even now as a as a a younger person. You know, I mean, I I don't know, there's something about the way that she the way that she interacts not just with Ellen but with other people too, that we've seen that she kind of has this air about herself that she is better. She is elitist.

20:28 Yeah. Yeah, that. And I guess that it, that is it because I just, I don't like that kind of attitude just in general everyday life, you know what I'm saying? No, but you know, it's like every time that we've seen her interactions with Ellen, even even with with this episode, this is the first episode where Ellen gave back what she was getting from Jacosta, right? That we've seen before. Jacosta has run off at the mile, said something smart. Ellen has never taken the bait. You know what I'm saying? I think that's probably the thing that really bothers me about Jacosta because it's like, you know what, your sister could put you in your place right now.

21:09 She really right? And you know what? And I realized why she took the bait this time. Because you are now in the situation your sister was in. But I like that about Ellen because she at least acknowledged like, hey, now that I'm in that situation, like doesn't make you happy because I'm just saying, like, you didn't like being here, so why are you taunting me? And that's the thing I love about Ellen is she's actually just really just smart. Like she. Right. So at the other time, she never paid anything to her sister at all. He mean nothing to her sister. I mean, honestly, yeah. Jacosta could say all she wanted to be. I get to do what I want. I mean, it was great. But now I'm in a situation that's like my sisters. I'm like oh hell this say great either.

21:51 OK so stop talking to me. Your jokes ain't funny. I guess I get it. I get it. I just I don't know. I didn't say she was the greatest. I said now I understand and I'm feeling her and I felt bad for her. Yeah, I do. Feel bad for her because I do, because nobody wants to be in that situation. And I guess also, I'm sitting here thinking like, at some point, if you think about Jacosta's history, I think this husband dies and then she marries another camera and then that husband dies and then she ends up marrying the camera who she had the children with that that stole the gold.

22:32 So first, first of all, you just need to come away from them damn cameras. Cameras, right? Girl, what you doing? 'Cause obviously, yeah, but I guess. Too, You know, there was that whole thing too back in the day where like if you if you didn't, if you got married or whatever, your husband died like a lot of times they wouldn't want to marry you because you weren't a virgin anymore or you weren't like fresh anymore. So maybe she could only get Cameron's other than obviously Mercer clearly had a thing for her at some point, but like maybe she could only get a camera camera to marry her or that was the way for her to keep her camera money or whatever. She OK because yeah, 'cause I don't.

23:15 Know what the circumstances were for the second husband she just mentioned. She just mentioned having married 3 cameramen. I don't think. I don't think the main show ever went into like detail detail except for that last one and it was only because she was telling Murta about everything that she had lost. OK, so yeah, when she ended up coming to America, so and then but she also didn't have like she she never had kids with this guy. This first kid, I think she had kids, I think all her kids. She had three kids with the third camera husband. She had the two older ones who were married with kids. They were all killed during the during colliding and then the younger 1 you know was killed on the road by by her husband by accident when when they was trying to get the remember they got stopped on the road.

24:12 Yeah, British. Soldiers found the gold and he was trying to shoot one of the British soldiers that ended up he he was the one that shot her. Oh yeah, I do. Remember that now? Yeah, I forgot all about that guy. Yeah. She had a rough life. Yeah. Yeah, and then she went blind. So, you know, maybe. So that's what I'm saying. So we just go give her, you know, maybe he could just. Let Jacosta have. It yeah, let them have it for right now 'cause guess what, even though Ellen is in the situation she was in, Ellen still end up being in the love of her life. So she end up dying. So but she loved, she got loved and she was loved and had children, just loved them before she died and Jacosta still chasing that so you know I'm saying. So just saying she get paid back. All right.

25:07 Oh, OK. So obviously it's the whole, you know, they get to the Beltane or whatever, but like, yes, so they're having that whole conversation in the carriage, but I can't remember what was said because I just I got it on and I'm trying to remember what was said because when they were having a conversation was was Ned talking up top about something? I can't remember. No, he wasn't talking up top when they were going back and forth he was like he was like OK y'all can y'all please stop Y'all about his worst as your brothers. OK, that's because he was listening. To them bicker back and forth. So yeah, that that was funny because he was like, my goodness, y'all would give Colin and Duga a run for that. Which is funny.

25:58 Yeah, Oh, another person I felt so bad for was Malcolm Grant. I was like, he don't deserve this. Only reason why I don't feel anything from Malcolm Grant is 'cause his dad is an asshole and I feel like that's who he gonna be. Well, he not there yet, I know, but he made her some like he really is into this and don't know this. She ain't nowhere near into this. 'Cause she just smiling at Ellen, Ellen is Ellen can lie her ass off, she can cause this whole episode you would really think that she was into Malcolm.

26:39 Grant, you do. That's why I felt bad for him. I was like, you could pretend like you not wanting to do this, but you giving him the eyes and even though you really wanted to give Brian the eyes with the dancing, you even gave it to Malcolm. So Malcolm is all confused. Yeah, I mean by the, you know, by the by the the end of Beltane celebration or whatever, honey, you could not tell that, oh, it 'cause even Brian was looking like, wait, what? I. Don't think that was what Brian's look was. Brian was like, OK, I see what you over there pretended, but I remember what you were doing a couple of hours ago. That's what.

27:20 Right. That's so sad. So she is. She is good. She's good. She is. So she. It is not right because that man really, really loves her. Made a little heart when he was a kid for her. This is a problem. It's not going to turn out right. Yeah. But you know, that's what happens when you when you find your true love, you know, in an instant and all of a sudden he's your whole world and you, you know, you lose your virginity to him. And yeah, yeah, you say ruin me. And then after that, then y'all want to have a oh, let's get to know each other conversation.

28:02 This is that. I mean, that's one of the reasons why I was talking while I was saying it in the earlier episodes. I said it's so funny how they look at one another and then all of a sudden it's like, Oh my God, I love this person more than life. Like you don't even know them. You don't know anything about them but you are literally about to risk your whole clan for this man the whole. Clan that's that star crossed like it's it's. Yeah, like the touch, even, even when they touch each other, it's just magical. Yeah, and how do we know it wouldn't have been magical if she had touched Mertha, I mean. She already she has, she has trust me, she ain't feeling she felt that the the fireworks across a bridge. So clearly if she did feel some form, she would have felt some. I know, I just find it funny how quickly they fall in love with each other in the 1700s.

29:04 Like, yeah. Well to be fair, if you look at a lot of these men in the background, aside from Mercer who was very cute. Do Google as fine as I'll get out. Ain't too many fine people, ain't too many good looking mofos. I'm sorry, Brian. Got it. And then also, she did talk about just, you know, some of the qualities that she sees in him, that she doesn't see another man. And like I said, I have a feeling she was drawn to him because he was one of the people who wasn't trying to talk to her. Like, there's something about knowing people are attracted to you, but when you are falling over yourself trying to get someone's attention, and this person has clearly made it.

29:47 Like she has made it known to everybody that she wasn't interested in looking for a man. She wasn't interested in the husband. Like, all these people tripping over what, tripping over themselves to talk to her like the Skyler sisters. I mean, they are really making themselves known. And she's like, hi, OK. I, I, I don't want it. And I think just the fact that he was not doing that, she was just kind of like, oh, OK. And then she saw him and she was like, wait, because that's the other thing. They were having a conversation with each other, just a regular conversation, not even knowing what each other looked like. They were having it, you know, with this barrier. So it's like there wasn't any of that superficiality in their meeting.

30:38 You know, there wasn't a oh, Ellen there. There's Ellen McKenzie. She's beautiful. I want to marry her. I could be the worst person in the world. Like she was saying in the carriage. She was like, yes, if I'm supposed to have all these virtues, then maybe column needs to tell Mack and Grant he's not getting what he what he needs to get. You know what I'm saying? But I just as ridiculous as that seems to me sometimes, I will say sometimes it it, it just, I don't know, it does seem to fit for them. Like when you see them on the screen, you feel it. And I think Dina and I were talking about this prior to us recording his mannerisms and the way that he mimics Sam as Jamie. I don't know if he's doing it on purpose or if it's just natural to the to the way he plays the character. They did, I have to say it again, they did a phenomenal job with that casting, casting him as Bryant because you see a lot of the the similarities in those characters. And then when when him and Ellen are together and they're kind of declaring themselves for each other and then the whole thing in the church happens.

31:52 I was just like, OK, I'm I'm watching the wedding scene again. Took about as long. I'm like y'all saw about the light is fading. I think y'all, I think y'all need to get a hurry on with this ruining process. I'm on it right now. Ruin me. I was like, oh, hello, Ellen. McKenzie Right. But you know, I was telling how to call the other day because I was watching these or whatever and like they took like 45 minutes for this scene. I was like, please just take off the clothes and move on with it.

32:36 It took all this time to unbuckle every strain and. Right, everything and still had the shoes on. Why is it I was thinking that that you don't like? I mean, they still got those boots on 'cause. I'm sitting here like boots were. Important they gonna get caught with this 'cause they take him. It's hard. Yeah, I was thinking that too. Like, do you know? Yeah. Then I'm like, oh, on the grass. It still wasn't as long as Jamie and Claire's reunion because that took forever. That one took forever. But, but I mean, it was a beautiful scene and, and going back to throwbacks, you know, the whole thing where they're about to, they're about to be together and Brian is like, wait, Nope.

33:23 I did say I didn't want to, you know, I didn't want to call into question your virtual whatever. So he pulls the little cloth so that they can hand fast. And I was like, oh, OK, it's just like Rodger and Brianna, I was like, OK, I hope they don't have the kind of drama that Rodger and Brianna had cause Oh my God. But I mean, it was a beautiful scene. But again, it, it was, I don't want to say it was hard to enjoy that scene, but it, it did feel kind of, it felt kind of wrong to root for them. And, and this beautiful scene right after Martha got his heart broken. It was right. Yeah, 'cause it's on, it's like literally on. Now they're, you know, they're tying their hands together.

34:05 But yeah, it is hard. And how she got back on grid just running around helping everyone just so he can see you spend time with her. I really don't care about. Yeah, I'm just saying they got a lot of people, you know, they hurting a lot of people's feelings. And they are with this hand. Fasting is so beautiful. Oh my God, Why is he so fine? But at first you know I'm so stupid because I'm like first when he started ripping like what we about to do here? Like I was thinking about that was like somebody gonna notice your your kill is ripped later on. Like it don't matter. I guess not. He was like, look, I'm gonna do this right. Oh, like once we.

34:47 Once we tied up, we use blindfold tied up. Do what you want to do. I'm just casting Oh. My gosh, look, I oh honey, I I, I was like mouth open this whole thing 'cause I was just like. I was almost waiting for them to get caught though. I was I just right I. I was just like please hurry, please I want. Y'all to be able to get it in? That's what she said, Yeah, but no, I I was really, I actually was really kind of worried that it was going to be Mercer to catch them. And I was like, Oh no, I really don't want this to happen. Well, he already caught him so. Yeah, but yeah, but catching them. And the kids is.

35:30 Is different from catching them in the. Act yeah, but right now to him it don't even matter, it's all the same. I know that would. Have been a fight, though. God, no, no, no, it wouldn't have been the same. Not you. Not you taking her virtue. It's one thing to be kissing in the woods, but you in here taking her virtue. Oh, I'm murder you, Sir. Right you were. Unless he was wondering OK so this must not have been the first time for y'all then that would have been an even bigger fight and. That's so heartbreaking because at some point he got to tell him how long this has been happening, you know? Yeah. I mean, well, it's obvious it's been happening since Leoch, so.

36:10 Right. It's like right now. And. And you see how long it's been because when we see Julia at the beginning of this episode, Julia is damn near due. And remember when they went through the stones right before, when they were in the car, she was talking about they didn't have to tell Claire yet because she was like, I won't be showing for a few months anyway. So she was all the way at the beginning of her pregnancy when this all started. So they've been in the 1700s now at least seven months, I would say. Yeah. Because she looks like she's almost due to give birth. Yeah. So that's, I mean, that's heartbreak on a whole other thing. And we'll get to Julia and hear me in a minute. But I mean, if you think about that, they that this has been going on for months now that Brian and Ellen have kind of been in love.

37:06 And I know that we only saw the one meeting with them and Julia, but it's kind of like now when when I'm sitting here putting it into that. Yeah, I I kind of agree with Michelle. You've had plenty of time to say something. It's been months. Yeah. I, I mean, literally it that just hit me. It's been months. That's funny when he specifically knows that they're there now because they know she's gonna be there. And he's like, I gotta shoot my shot. Brian. Brian he, he really should have said. Something right? And he been talking about her every time they're together. I know that man's been saying. Ellen Ellen Ellen Ellen Ellen Ellen. And then when he jumped up for the for the maid that make queen dance thing and merch, I looked over like he's I wanted to he feel at that point that he was just trying to back him up. I think he did.

38:07 He probably not that yes, Yep. And that's sad in itself. Yep. Because because once you know, when you see now you realize that it was a whole different thing. So it's kind of like, yeah, there's there's heartbreak on several levels from murder, not just because you've lost the girl and you've lost the girl to your best friend, but this this person has been making it seem like they have been supporting you or maybe not even making it seem Martha has been filling in those blanks. And Brian has not said otherwise. So yeah, it's yeah, I do feel bad for Martha.

38:48 I really do like, and I understand Brian and Ellen. We know they're the end game. We know that they have to be together in order for Jamie to be here, in order for us to have the Jamie and Claire store. So I'm not, I'm not mad in that sense about the Brian and Ellen thing. I understand, you know, you, you fell in love you, you kind of gotten to the point where it's just like we want to be together and we don't care who we hurt, but we know the people who are getting hurt. And so that's what makes it a little bit harder or it keeps us from being joyous because like even with Claire and Jamie, I feel like we could actually see the two of them falling in love. Like they actually built a friendship first before the whole world, before Claire fell in love with him, Jamie was gone like from the moment he laid eyes on her. But we weren't all that attached to Frank. So again, because we got to see the build up of Jamie and Claire, I know, but I mean, we got to see a little bit of her and Frank.

39:49 So it in the one sense, it was kind of like, Oh, I do feel bad for Frank, but we didn't see the build up of of the relationship with her and Frank. Frank was already there. We actually got to expect. I felt bad for Frank. With with with we got to see it from start from Jamie, with Jamie and Claire, which is, you know, it makes it easier to to be a part of this story. Brian and Ellen and let's be honest, yes, we know that this is a love story. Yes, we know that they are fated to be together, but we really haven't seen much of them together. We don't have that build up like we did with, let's put on the flip side, seeing Julian Henry fall in love.

40:34 There was the build up because we got to kind of go along that journey even though we knew, OK, they're already together, but y'all gave it to us and it was more consistent. Like we've seen them writing the letter, the letters to each other. We saw their first meeting. We've seen them fall in love. We saw them get married. You know, we've actually been a witness to that relationship in a sense. So we haven't really had a chance to do that with Brian and Ellen. So it's easier I think to be like, OK yeah y'all are cute but y'all hurt my boy over here is to to kind of. Because think about it, they haven't. They haven't been able to write. They can't even write each other. They haven't had any communication. They've been living off pure fumes for how many months it's been since the last?

41:21 Time they. Saw because even with Julia and Henry, they're narrating the show, they're like the narrators and and so you can hear what they're at least thinking, you know, and so with this we're just kind of getting winner together, that's it. And they've only been together at this point. What this is what #4 four times that they've been together in in each other's presence. So. Yeah, it it, I guess it would be differently stable. The second time was the bridge. The third time was when he went to LEOC and then yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's like if they had, you know, let's say that they were able to, like, exchange secret notes and begin hear their romance and, you know, maybe, yes, it's true. Maybe we'd be more like, yeah.

42:07 But it is I yeah, I get that. Yeah. And I know part of that is because, again, we technically, we kind of know the story of Brian and Ellen. They're filling in the blanks right now, but we already know that they end up together, right? Yeah. So, you know, but again, it's it's kind of, I don't, I don't want to say it's hard to follow this story. It is. I mean, I mean, it's easy to follow this story. But again, because of who is involved and who's getting hurt, I can't be all, yes, I'm for Brian and Ellen right now because my heart really does hurt from her to life.

42:47 I feel Michelle on this on so many levels. Like when I saw this episode, I was like, oh, Michelle is about to hate Brian. I was. I already knew. I was like, you know, I don't want to hate him. But yeah, right now you are not the coolest. You know, you ain't the coolest friend, Brian. You could have. You could have done a little bit better. Yeah. Just a little bit, Yeah. It was so cute though. He's so adorable. His little innocent face. They could not have picked a better little innocent face. Murta, like he just looks so innocent, like he just doesn't know how anything about how the world works. I just I feel so sorry for. Him. Right. Stupid bug just comes and beats his poor baby just up.

43:29 I mean like savage. Yeah, he did. Like all that wasn't necessary, you could just punch him once and been done with it. It's savage, but you know, I I guess at the same time, you do have to show us the type of person that arch bug is because, like, this is the person who was coming after Ian. This is the person who stopped Ian Country Rachel. Right? Like, so, you know, I guess you got to show it to us. Like, he don't care that Merta was just a little drunk. Whatever. He still had to be vicious with him. So it's like, OK, yeah, I still don't like you. I just at all.

44:09 Yeah. But did we ever, do we ever find out in the show, in the main show, how Arch Bug came to be and Jamie's employee? I think he was one of the people from Clinton who was in jail that he offered like he did with the I can't think of Mel, Mel Mel was dead like I think he was. One of those people Ars Mirror man, OK. Yeah, the ARS Mirror. Yeah, I think he was one of the Ars. Mirror OK because I just sat here and thought about and I think I asked this question before we started recording I was like did Arch Bug and Mercer ever crossed paths in the main show? I don't think they did when Mercer came to visit Fraser's Ridge cause.

44:55 Yeah, I don't think so. OK. I don't recall if he did. OK, but yeah, OK, so that answers 'cause I couldn't remember if if they mentioned it in the books. That was like so many books ago and I don't remember, I have to go back and reread. But OK, 'cause I was going to say that would have added like a an extra layer if they had interacted in the main show. But you're right, I don't think they did because like you said, Mercer was in hiding for most of that. Right. Yeah, OK, Alright, we gonna move away from Beltane for a minute. Let's let's go over to Castle Leathers because, OK, I'm really trying to have I'm really trying to have some patience with Miss Porter.

45:46 I really am. But you messing some stuff up, girl, you you messing some stuff up. But I will say this too, at the beginning, when Julia and Bryant are trying to leave the castle, I need y'all to learn how to tiptoe on stone floors. I know I mean. Your. Footsteps. They made so much noise. I mean, it's ridiculous. It is, but you know, here's another thing that is kind of on the you had months to to save this information.

46:28 Again, this has not been months because when they went to leoc, Julia still was not showing, right. So now she is full belly, full big, you know. And then this is where Miss Porter spills the beans to Brian about Julia carrying Lord Lovett's child. And you know, Brian, of course, is outrage, which I think is very ironic. Oh, you should have told me famous last words. Right. And you know, that made me mad because I'm thinking I know.

47:09 Really. But I think she was really trying to communicate with him, like, I'm sorry you had to find out in this way. Like, please play along, please play along. But he wasn't getting it. I think she was really trying to signify to him like this really ain't your daddy's baby, but I can't say this in front of your Mama. But he wasn't getting it. But yeah, I when he said that line, I just bust out laughing. I was like, really, really. Like OK. But then I start getting, I start getting scared for Julie because I'm like OK to see her coming. Please don't say nothing crazy. OK, so let's talk about the Sears. Don't say anything crazy. So Maisie is the same seer that we see in the original show as the older version. OK, It's the same seer.

47:59 So when she's sitting there doing her reading, because again, what happens is Julia is getting ready to leave with Brian to go to Beltane to try to help him, you know, connect with Ellen. Misses, portifies them. And she was like, oh, no, she can't leave because the seer is coming to do a reading for the bear. Lord Lovett does this with all his children. She was like, oh, I guess it's time for you to know she's carrying your siblings. So Brian leaves her there, takes off, he goes to Beltane. Julia's there stuck. So Mazri comes and does the reading and it's so interesting because I feel like Mazri, some of the stuff that she's saying, she really is saying some stuff. But did you notice that when, when Lord Lovett asked her about the bear and she put her hand on Julia's stomach, did you notice she pulled back and she looked at Julia and then she put her hand there like she felt like, oh, this is not his child. Yes, but he immediately knew, like she. Yeah.

49:03 She she's on her, she's on her game. She knows what the truth going to be, but she also knows she better say something so she don't get guilty, OK? So. About that, but I think she but I think she telling the truth though. I just don't. Think he belongs to the truth about the baby. I don't have to feel like she's telling him what he want to hear. So here's the. Thing She didn't tell him anything she told him she said with the veil between the world's the thinnest I can you know what I'm about to say. And then he was like, you're about to tell me that the prophecy that they it is true that you know the the the future Scottish king will come from the phrase of bloodline.

49:45 She never confirmed or denied what he said. That is true because she said that other stuff. But the other stuff was good, though. The other stuff was good. Yeah, the. Daughter did say that. She never said the Baron was yours. He was like, shut your mouth. She never said the Baron was yours, no. Nor did she say that you're a child, that this child was going to be the future King of Scotland, Right? She said there was more than more. Children right to be the future king. Of Scotland, she said there was another kid also. So she had the the first thing that she said before she did the bears reading. She said field of thorns men and snared, bleeding, wailing and tormented. I'm thinking that has to do with colliding because she said that he did not answer the fray. He was standing over to the side victorious. Now remember, he was the one that was kind of flip flopping. You know, he was the one that when Jamie and them came and asked for men for for the Jacobites, he refused. He signed the treaty with Colin.

50:48 But then he turned around later and came. And what was it that Jamie said? He said that he saved face in front of column by saying that he was not going to send men and then allowed his son to take them because that way, if they're victorious, he can claim the glory. But if they're not victorious and they lose, then he can say, well, I didn't have any part in that. Yeah, so I feel like that's probably what that was referring to because of course they lost the Battle of Culloden. He never officially signed his men up for it. So now he can be on the on the side of the Brits and be like, yeah, well, I thought I was going to win. That's why I didn't see my, you know what I'm saying?

51:30 So that could be that. And then she comes into the reading about the bear. She said there's two bears, one after the other, right? There's a last alone with dark curls and clear blue eyes. And she. He was like, I don't, I don't have a need of daughter. She was like, no worry. Her time is still to come. I was like, OK, she must be talking about Claire. Yeah, Claire. She could talk. She could be talking about. She could be talking about. All the stuff she. Does the Jane, whatever that situation may be? And then she said the other bear a boy of great importance, of higher purpose, uniting clans for centuries to come. She said his fate hangs in the balance, but when the fate of our nation is in peril, he will have his part to play. That's the thing that's going to be interesting because I'm really sitting here trying to think of anybody in Outlander that that could have referred to because, again, she never says that this band is the future king of Scotland. Yeah.

52:35 So I don't think that's what she's talking about. So I'm like, what is she talking about? I'm sitting here thinking all kinds of things. I'm like, OK, who could she? Who could she be referring to 'cause she be referring to like does Claire, like is Claire's brother? I don't know. Somebody that we've come across. Is it someone that I think one of y'all mentioned could have been? No, I don't think it was you. It was I think in the panel that we did either the Blood of my Blood panel or the Outlander panel we did at Dragon Con. It was mentioned because minor spoiler and I think I've discussed this with both of you guys before. Comp.

53:23 Saint Germain is a time travel and so somebody was wondering if there's a tie between him and Claire and I was like. Yeah, we talked about that. But he's far as I know, French and they are in Scotland, so that would make sense. But I don't know there. There's just so many. It's so, it's so many, it's so many unknowns, right? But the thing that we do know is 1 we already know that that's not Lord Lovett's son, right? And obviously, Maisri also knows that that is not. Lord Lovett's son, whatever she read when she touched Julia's belly.

54:05 Oh, yeah. And then she probably know. Like this woman ain't even where she's supposed to be. They something ain't right with her. She could. Yeah, she was just looking like. Yeah, like she really got the sight, whatever it is, she got the sight you and she felt it like she was afraid. Oh yeah. Because people who don't have the sight, they don't fear. They just make shit up and they just whatever makes the person happy. They just said you can see the fear in her when she was looking at that. And then she did the egg in the bowl and all that. Oh girl was like look OK I got to fix this. Because especially about she and me when she went to touch the belly and she kinda. And looked at it and then she put her hand on there again, like, oh, let me pretend like AI was like, well, pretended.

54:50 I don't think she was pretended. I I really like when she saw her when you she she touched her and she looked up at her and it almost like a look of like, yeah, this is not his baby, but you're not there's something about you like you're not in the right time or place. Yeah, yeah, She, she doesn't know how to say that right. And then she touched back and was like, OK, you got a boy and he's this, this and this and then we and the layer over there make another shit up and she didn't even make it. She make no comments whatever whatever you. Think I was like, oh, I said She never said that. Yes, your son is the king of Scotland. Because I was thinking about of of course, you know, there's a, there's a newer episode out.

55:35 So I've seen it and he mentions that whole thing again about the future king of Scotland. Like did she? Tell you she never said that. Because I just said wonder is greater importance, yeah. And then when I went back and watched, I said, Oh no, she never said anything. She could say. Greater importance prophecy made by her as well. The one he keeps holding on to. So that's the thing, because I don't I don't recall ever hearing this prophecy. So I'm like, OK, I need to know the prophecy. So maybe they'll give us the prophecy later in in one of the episodes leading up to the season finale because he mentions it and I was like, what prophecy? What prophecy is he talking about? But you know, he she also mentioned the Stone of Destiny, and I didn't get a chance, I didn't get a chance to look up what the Stone of Destiny was.

56:33 But I'm trying to remember if that was similar to the, to the prophecy that Gala's heard that what's her name? Yeah. That's exactly what just came up on Google when I was trying to look it up. Really, it was something about the property is about what what Megalis want to do her thing. So I think we're going to have to ponder this a little bit more and discuss it in the next episode. Because when she said Stone of destiny, I was like, wait, she talking about that sounds so familiar, but I I was like, OK, she can't be talking about the standing stones because she should have said stones unless she's talking about that one main stone.

57:22 And then, OK, going back to this, here's the other question that I have in the last episode when Ellen was talking to Julia about Belt Beltane and about the, you know, the the dancers who come in and about the whole 100 years, Like they come into the stones and they do the dances. And then when they go back, they realize 100 years have passed and everything that they have ever known has changed. My question is who is coming back and telling these stories because y'all didn't just get this just from anywhere somebody had to come back and tell y'all yeah I went back and all this time had gone past and everything I knew was gone.

58:05 Who's coming back and telling the? Stories. But then also, like 100 years is a long time for them to be still alive and coming back because everybody ages as they travel. They still age, you know what I mean? So how are they coming back 100 years later to be able to tell it, though, that's the question. Well, maybe the time period is a little exaggerated. Well, I think, I don't think 100 years means like maybe like specifically 100 years. It's kind of like with with Claire in them, whenever they travel, their travel is exactly 202 years forward or backwards. It's almost never different except for this last time when Rodger went back a little bit further. But it's always 202 years.

58:50 So I don't know, maybe whoever was telling these stories, maybe they just said 100 years, but maybe it could have been more. Or maybe that was just a guesstimate. Like, OK, they come through the stones, let's say during Beltane. And then whenever they go back, they realize 100 years have passed or they they end up 100 years. I I don't know how that that goes, but it's like, who's coming back and telling the story? That's what I want to know. Who is telling the stories in the 1700s? Because you're like, yeah, they've been telling these stories that you're fool. Who, who who's coming back? Because as far as we know, Claire and Brianna and Roger are the only ones who have, you know, traveled back and forth except for from what we know of the books.

59:37 Maybe the constant Jermaine. Yeah. Maybe Master Raymond, because I think it was, I think it's been speculated that he's a time traveler, but I haven't gotten to the stories about Master Raymond yet that may confirm or not, but it's possible he may also be a time traveler as well. So it's like who's telling the stories? That's that's really what I want to know because that might also feed into some of this stuff that Mazri is saying. Or it could have something to do with the stuff that happens in the Outlander show with this whole Jane and Fanny and face connection, whatever that may be. It it, it, it just changes everything we know because we don't know. Yeah.

1:00:27 And then with the seer saying that he's a greater importance and he was saying like, I don't know if he said like king or what not even greater than his greater importance. So he's important. So we so Claire, if he if she has a if Julie has a boy, has a brother and that brother is someone of importance. But have we met the brother or are we going to meet the brother? We have no idea. Or we may. Never meet the brother and we just find out about the things the brother did. Higher purpose, uniting clans for centuries to come. That does sound like a king, but that could also be. She said even greater importance than that. No, she said.

1:01:10 A boy of great importance, higher purpose, uniting clans for centuries to come. But his fate hangs in the balance. No, he said something, the lair said something, and she said even greater. Go back, I forgot what. He said he said yeah, he said a king, I think. And she said even greater, even greater. Yeah, he is of greater importance, greater than the king. But his faith does hangs in the balance. So I don't know. Yeah, his faith hangs in the balance. When the fate of our nation is in peril, he will have his part to play. OK, we got to think about that. But again, very interesting that all of this is coming out about Julia's baby and Julia's sitting there. Like I was sitting there looking like I said, Julia, I need you to control your face because everything that you are feeling right now is showing.

1:02:09 You are like, Oh my God, this is first of all, I feel like she felt like all of that was just too much. Like, OK, you need to stop because this ain't even his child. Like, she wasn't paying attention to Mazri the way I think we were paying attention to Major because the way the camera focused on her face, like we were meant to pay attention to her kind of pulling back and like, oh, shit, what did I just what did I just read? I don't think Julia was paying attention. Miss Porter wasn't paying attention except for listening to what was going on. And then, of course, later on she goes to him and she was like, yeah, so Major never said that was your child. And I'm gonna be honest, that's not your child. She was like she was pregnant when she got the Leathers. And he's like, how do you know, 'cause I'm a woman who knows what it is to carry a child and how women act when they pregnant, right?

1:02:58 He's like, hey, you shut your mouth, you. Say a word. Thing that really surprised me because he was like, if you say a word of this to anyone, the last thing you will see is balance dirt going across your neck. I was like, wait, she just told you this is not your child and you don't care, but it's because of what he thinks he heard. It's going to be tied to him no matter what now, so he don't care. He that makes him happy. But my thing is when, if because I don't know. I mean, I'm assuming they're going to be getting back together because the way things are looking, I don't know. Henry never don't get back together. Wait, That's next.

1:03:46 That's next. I. Just wonder like, you know, when they do finally come out and they're like, yeah, this time my husband and he's freeing me, I'm going to be with my husband, whatever. And they run away. They got to first of all, get out of Frederick in Scotland because there's no way anybody's going to let them just run off and go free the mother stuff, the Grants nor the Fraziers, right? So like, they gonna have to go immediately to the phones and get the hell on right 'cause otherwise, what are they gonna be able to do? And so that's the thing. Like, I feel like since they never came back to their time, where did they end up going? And you know what's funny? I know this is weird, I know this is weird, but what if they do make it back to the phones and they're like, we just want to be back with our daughter Claire, but it brings him to 17, whatever, wherever Claire is now as a old lady.

1:04:40 And then they're like, what the hell? And now they're just stuck in that time. Right, right. 'Cause that would. Yeah, that would. Be And that's what that's what I was thinking. We have one more season. Yeah, we have one more season. And then they do end up actually seeing her again. That would be nice, but yeah, that that would be crazy because it's like if they say, hey, we want to see our daughter and they go through the stones and what happens if all they do is they go forward 30 years and here's a grown up Claire and this like, why are we still in the Why are we still in the past?

1:05:20 We said we want to be with our. Guys or they don't make it and the brother ends up going through the stones and say I want to meet my sister. If yeah, OK, that that's that's too much for me to think about. We look, we still have 5 episodes for the first season. That's I know, OK, yeah. Speculation is real though, so we'll wait. So, so going back to Miss Porter, like I really feel at this point now she's, she's trying to protect her position, her standing and her son's standing because what is it that she said? She said Lord Lovett does the reading for all of his children. She said this plural.

1:06:11 He's done this for all of his children. So either he's had more children that are either dead or that he, I guess he. Didn't they? Could be other bastards and he deemed them not worthy because obviously he thinks Brian is not worthy because what is it that he says when Mazri right before she does the reading he said So what about the bear Is this is this child one that will be worthy of the phraser name? I was like, oh, how dare you like. Excuse me? Yeah, I just, I was so offended for Brian when he said that, like, excuse me. And, and so again, now I really, now I really do want to know what the background is behind Brian's birth, behind this whole thing, because the whole, the whole vibe with Miss Porter is weird, you know, because on the one hand, he's very dismissive of her.

1:07:07 And you know, literally it's like, well, if you tell anybody, this isn't my child, I'm going to kill you. But then in the next thing, he's like, you know, how much I I admire your or how much I trust you and how much you know, how much I admire your years of loyalty and stuff. And it's like something about the look on her face is very there is a conflict there. So, you know, I was thinking about what we were talking about in the last episode. It's almost like, again, we don't know what the situation is for them to we know what's been said. And then, oh, the one thing that Ned Gowen mentions in this episode, So apparently the thing that happened that caused him to lose his status, his other castle and everything is that he took a noble woman, apparently kidnapped her and raped her, or that's that's what he's accused of doing.

1:08:05 So OK, this is the this is the first time that I think we concretely know that this is some something in his character. This is not something that's like basically a rumor, like you literally lost your castle and everything about of course, he's still blaming everything on the Mackenzie's. But if what they're saying is is true of what Nick Gowan is saying is true, then we know that this is something that is in this man's character. So it kind of, I feel like it makes Miss Porter a little bit more complex because again, if this happened to her and she ended up having a child with him, maybe she's still there because this is the better life that she could give her son as opposed to being a, you know, of course, 1700s, you got raped. Oh, you're a whore.

1:08:57 Because they don't care that he would have forced her. They would just been looking at her like, oh, you Jezebel, blah, blah, blah, blah. Right. So May seduced him, and you did. It's always the woman's fault. Right. Always. So maybe she stayed, maybe she stayed there, one, to stay employed so that she can raise her child and two, because Lord Lovett all, all you know, he obviously claims Bryant, even though he is always my bastard son and not his regular son. But if he does this, this reading for all his children, where the rest of his children? That's the question too. But I also wonder if. He made him like maybe he he had a love for Brian more than what he does now.

1:09:44 Like when he was younger and maybe things changed as Brian got older and he realized Brian was nothing like him or And that's when he. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe, you know, you mentioned it earlier, but he did mention it in this episode. But he was talking to Ellen. Maybe when Brian went on his pilgrimage, maybe that's what caused his father to be like, oh, OK, I don't want nothing to do with you because you left me. Right. Yeah. Or something like that. I mean, you don't appreciate. Me, you know. And it depends on when that happened. Did this happen, like, before Lord Lovett fell from prominence, or did it happen afterwards?

1:10:24 Because if it happened afterwards, he probably would have felt like Brian abandoned him in his time of need, you know, that sort of thing. And then, of course, Brian probably came home out of a sense of duty to his dad, you know, like, OK, yeah, my dad did this fucked up thing and caused us to lose everything, but he's still my dad. Again, 1700s mindset. Like, he's still my dad. I'm still going to go be the dutiful son. And then maybe he didn't want to leave his mom alone with that monster. You know, yeah. Or he could also gave him his last name after he lost everything 'cause he was like, well, it don't matter now 'cause I ain't really the Lord and, you know, the honest to God like Lord anymore. So it really don't matter if I got a bastard son or not. That's true.

1:11:15 Oh my. Goodness, yeah, I need that back store too. Yeah. But yeah, that, that whole thing, like the whole thing with Julia, and I know that she did what she did to protect herself, to protect her child, but it feels like this lie is now spiraling out of control. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause it didn't help with what the senior said to be No, it didn't help. Because now you think they wouldn't let you go anywhere before. You ain't going nowhere now. You ain't nowhere now. You really made Miss Porter your enemy at this point, because now she here and all this stuff. She know you lying and but then now you got this man head all in like and she had a threat in.

1:12:07 Her life to protect your life. Yeah, it's it's a mess. It's a mess. I just I, I just kind of I fret for whatever's going to happen when she has this baby because it's like with the way things are and the time period that she's in, they could very well take that baby from her and she really could have no recourse yeah. Because who are you? You're some nameless woman who got dropped into our lap, just slept with the lair, had his baby. So now we just gonna keep the baby. We gonna throw you out on the street because who are you now but a vessel to us?

1:12:49 I mean, that's literally the mindset he could have. I don't think Brian would let that happen. But again, Brian now is at Bell Tank. Yeah. But also, she, she didn't consider that, you know, that's actually, that's a very valid point that he could have been happy to have a kid, but he didn't want her once it was done. And what was she gonna do if they did kick her out? And then what's his name? Bullock. Bullock, whatever his name, Ballack. Ballack. Take her off to the side of the road and drop her somewhere where she can't find her way back. Or. Kill her or kill her or kill her. Yeah, 'cause he clearly has no problem with that.

1:13:30 Right. But I, you know, I think probably for her, I don't think this this was something she planned. This was something that she ended up doing because Miss Porter told her, OK, you can either drink this tea or the layer can get rid of the baby for you because, you know, you being pregnant, you're not going to be any good. Such. You're not going to be able to do your chores, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Just like now, you know. Yeah. Lord Lovett is like, OK, you you're going to make sure all her chores are done for her. She's not going to do it. Like, knowing that this is not your child. You're still giving her all the accommodations. Again, I feel like, yes, something like that could happen. But I think maybe even when Julia did that, maybe she was thinking that she wouldn't be there that long.

1:14:16 Maybe she was hoping that by, you know, that she and Henry would have already found each other by then and they would have gone back to Claire and everything would have been OK. So I really don't think she was thinking long term. I think she was looking at, OK, this is a problem right now that I need to, that I need to solve to keep my baby safe, right? Yeah. I don't know. Oof. I just, that's just very scary. Yeah. That they just really have no qualms with murdering people and raping all that. And there's no law, there's really no law to tell them that they can't do that. Yeah, you know, they what is it?

1:15:01 What is it that they call it? Clan justice. Yeah. If if they feel like something needs to be done, and most likely clan justice would be if it comes out that Julia lied about the baby being his, they're going to see justice against her. Yeah, not him. They're going to see justice against her. So yeah, that's going to that's going to be complicated, especially because she's so close now. Again, wow. They've been gone for months. They've been there for months. That's crazy. I hate it. The only other thing that I really want to talk about again, I think we mentioned this before.

1:15:46 I am really enjoying this kind of pseudo bromance with Ned and Henry. Like these are two people who who are on opposite class, but you see that they kind of they kind of have a bond. And I like that. And I need to know who. I need to know who this person was that Ned Gowen was in love with. Because. Oh, I know. Have a soft spot for Ned Gowen. You know, he's been there through all of their trials and tribulations. And it's so funny because I was re watching Outlanders season 7 for Dragon Con and it was the episode where Jamie is meeting with Leary to sign over bow rigging to her.

1:16:28 And like Nick Gowan has looked over things. She was like Nick Gowan is still alive. He was like old and crotchety but and missing a few teeth. But yeah, he's still around. And I was like, I would like to see Nick Gowan again and again. I love the casting that they did for this show because he it's his personality. So but I need to know the story like who broke your heart? Did this person die? Did they leave you? What happened? I need to know. I need to know. But that was funny. I actually kind of wonder because I feel like Ned has a little something for Ellen and I wonder if maybe Ellen's mom could have possibly been somebody he was, you know, in love with or something. If he he does, I feel like he has this, like everybody else, he has this thing about Ellen, but I feel like, I don't know, I feel like he has a thing for her, but like, obviously he knows it'll never be a thing, right? But like I feel like he had.

1:17:35 Even beyond it is weird because in some instances when he's talking to her, it does come across like he may also be infatuated with her. But then in other instances when he's talking to her is almost paternal. Yeah. So it's like he's very. Weird Jacob. Yeah, right. That could be her mother he was in love with. That's what I'm thinking because that story so sad. I know, I know. But I and it's even more sad because he's he's basically like trying to tell Henry, like it might be time for you to let this woman go. But this is something I've wondered. Harry is not telling anyone that this woman is his wife.

1:18:18 Why is he not telling people this? He just keeps telling them that he's looking for a woman. Looking for a woman, right? Tell me. So she's looking for your wife. Your pregnant wife. That might ring some bells with people. Yeah. Pregnant English woman, but perhaps? That's why I was funny when she said the the the black lady, the black proprietors like British woman with kind eyes. I got you. And I was like, oh, Laura, she didn't find some slice nut roaming the countryside roaming. The islands, when I tell you I was so mad when he walked in that room because I was like, I know this is not Julia. What did he get? And when, when she walked out like nothing against, nothing against the horn, nothing against her, but I was like, I, you saw how Henry's face fell and I felt so bad for that girl.

1:19:12 But I'm like, but you know, he was, you weren't what he was looking for. But why are you not telling folks that you were looking for your wife? Like she wouldn't be a horror lady this matter what she would be doing. Well, you know, that was the thing. He was like, you know, have you ever wanted something and didn't want something at the same time? He was like, because I would have loved to have found her, but it would have broke. I think it would have broken his heart if he had found her there, because it would have. It really would have been one of those situations where she probably wouldn't have had a choice. Yeah. I mean, if you think about it, if the crofter and his wife didn't knock her upside the head and bring her to the Frasers, where would she be right now?

1:19:53 She could have ended up there easily if someone else had found her on the road. Let's say if even if Ballack had found her on the road. Someone like that, she could be dead in a ditch somewhere. That's true. That's very true. Or like you said it, they could have sold her out to the to the whole house and then, you know, 'cause they clearly have no problem with taking people's autonomy and just being like, oh, it's. Selling fun now like I'm a just grab Dean off the side and go here he go. You have her cover. Who? Is for her. Or some who way what? Oh, yeah, that's great. Thank you. I needed a job, but yeah.

1:20:39 I don't know, I liked this episode. I really did. But also there were Mercer. I just. There was a lot of pain. Michelle, I thought about you. I was like I said, I know. She over there crying in her cups. Bob Marks. Yeah, that's why I sent you a text message. I was like, I'm done. She was like, I'm done. I can't watch this show. I'm done, she. Was like I can't do. It I turned it off too. I was like Nope, Nope, the pain. And then OK, I got a side note. OK, so when the ladies came out to dance at the end. Yes. I got thought so. When did they have dance practice? Now they just know they they were all together. I don't know it's one.

1:21:27 Of those things where that, that's one of those, yeah. It's kind of like passed down from mother to daughter to. No ma'am, they had to meet every Mondays when the sun is at the highest. We were doing it all together. We knew when to turn left, when to turn right. We practice this. I love it. I mean, they probably have a little group that gets together and do it. And learn it just I just thought of it as they were doing it was like that just tickled me. But I did love seeing it. I mean it. Was pretty. It is very much so. Like it's, you know, and it's the same thing from like the original 1, you know, the people in this square. So I like that they did that, Carl back to kind of show it's been going on for a. Long time for a long time.

1:22:11 But I'm so glad that wasn't a wedding because when they started this episode out and Ellen was doing her dress fit, I was like, are we doing a wedding already? Like, what is going on? What, what did I mean? I was like, 'cause I don't think I remember her actually getting married to Malcolm Grant. And I was like, what is going on? And then oh, OK, here again, Jacosta coming in all snarky. 300 cast pain in my existence. That's OK. This is hard. That's why I like shows like this though 'cause it's hard to, to just hate people. Yeah, like there's something like Simon Fraser, like he gets out of hate, like he, there's no redeeming qualities for him. But like, I really can't hate Japan, so I really can't hate like Malcolm.

1:22:58 I, you know, there's who are probably really crappy people, but when you see their back story and all the things they've had to deal with, I can't hate Davina Porter 'cause I feel like she a woman in the same in that time and she been there her whole life, probably dealing with this same shit, you know, and I'm just like, I can't hate her, but I can't hate her. I can't. Hate Frank, you know. Well, I know 'cause he wasn't his father. He actually was a decent. Dude, but also that Jack. What was his name? Jack Black. Jack Randall. Now I hate him. That's OK. That mofo that. One right there, yeah. Arch bug We can hate him 'cause I don't, I don't see anything redeeming about him yet Yeah.

1:23:39 So yeah, we can hate him too. But he can. Kick rocks. Yeah. But it's just so many good characters that are just, they're not horrible people, but they are. And I don't know, it's just hard. Yeah, because even going back to the whole Miss Porter thing, it's like I think we talked about in the last episode, like, you see, this woman is alone. She's she's kind of a fish out of a out of water. She's pregnant. You could help her out. But again, going back to what we were saying as well, if if Miss Porter's position is so precarious that her opening her mouth could threaten, you know, like she can be threatened to be killed or be put out on the street. She probably is just protecting her standing, her place and her son's place.

1:24:32 You know, and it's like that kind of that kind of environment doesn't really foster. OK, let's stand up for each other. Let's take up for each other. Let's watch out for each other. It literally is every woman for herself. And she's got to think about herself. She's got to think about her child, even though he a grown ass man, but still, you got to think about what's going to happen with him if his father decides. Oh, OK, You know what? I got another bastard coming, and then let's let's not even talk about that. What? What happens if he decides? Far as Lord Lord Lovett is concerned, Julie is a single woman. He might be like, OK, you finna marry me. Yeah, that's gonna be a problem. Yeah.

1:25:14 And and they can resend the, the can't they resend the like the like the, the unbastardizing he did. Can he just take that back and make him make him take away his last name again and stuff like that? I mean, he can, I think he can keep the last name, but it's just, you know, because you're, because you are a bastard of that last name. He's not really entitled to anything. If Lord Lovett says no, I don't want to leave him anything he doesn't have to. Yeah. So that's, that's, you know, I did wonder about that. Is that like one of the reasons why she also was scared is that he could take that away from her son. And if he gets a new son and you know. But he hadn't even gotten he he don't have anything to give him. You lost everything because you couldn't keep a Dick in your pants.

1:26:07 Yeah, but also, yeah, also you rather have a new conquest then to get some money to pay them bills to fix your house, right? So exactly, exactly. I got to think about my needs. Sir, your roof is falling down on you. Like really, have you seen, have you seen the outside of of that castle? Like there was a shot where Julie was outside. I think it was when she was coming back from leaving the offering for the the milk fairies or whatever. Half of the roof on one side of the building is gone. It's gone. Bricks are missing from the side of the building.

1:26:51 But you would rather get the girl because you got needs too, Yeah? Just selfish and horrible. Like have you ever a real layered like how? Right. Probably by taking stuff. He's so disgusting, so great. Do we have anything else about this episode to talk about? Because I'm really anxious to get to the next episode. No, we we hit the the highlights. Yeah, we, I think we got everything because most of it was them ravishing each other on the church flow. Right. And then, you know, devastation. Yeah, and they're learning about each other after the ravishing. Then the loss of the first.

1:27:36 Your first love, sister, sibling rivalry. Yeah, yeah. And the fortune teller and the fortune. Of poor little Martha. Yeah. I feel like I want to go back and watch that Lord love it episode of the regular Outlander show now though, and just kind of. Just to see. Yeah, just to see. Yeah. Actually, that's a good idea. I think I'm actually, I want to do a rewatch of the whole series because like the stuff that you see and you're like, oh snap, this reminds me of so and so I like. Right. Especially some of the stuff that we're learning now, it's like when you think about the characters and where we last saw them or how we've seen them, it's like, OK, so I see how they're weaving that story.

1:28:23 Like I think they're doing a really good job, I will say that. But again, I think I I need to I need to see the transition of what happens with Mercer. I think that's going to be the biggest that's that's kind of aside from the Henry and Julia mystery. I think that's the biggest draw for me is to see what's going on with Martha and and how he gets from here to where we got him. So, yeah. So OK, if you guys don't have anything else to say about this episode, we're going to go ahead and conclude here. That is it for our show.

1:29:03 You can find this online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.