Outlander: Blood of My Blood (Season 1 Episode 4) - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #373

0:20 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Michelle and Dina, and we are discussing episode 4 of Blood of My Blood. The First things first, let's get some housekeeping out of the way. Are you guys recovered from Dragon Khan yet? Yeah, I think I'm good. Michelle said Nope, I'm not yeah, so I'm I I preface that because I have a little bit of a head cold. So if I sound a little weird tonight, forgive me. I'm I'm I'm working through the start of con crud, but OK, let's let's get on. Don't have it this year. Yeah, OK, Let my blood.

1:05 If so, for woo woo. There's a lot in this episode I don't even know where I wanna start. So I wanna start with Julia and her little fake ass rash and all this other stuff she goes. Smart, that was. She. Smart Listen, I like she she is she is thinking outside of the box and she's like, oh wait, the Laird is coming back. Oh, I want him touching me. Let me figure out what and. I. Love smart and he would look at it like can you fix that? That was the funny part to me, 'cause I was like, oh, she knows that he's vain enough that he's going to look at that and be like, oh girl, I need you to handle that.

1:45 Yeah, in my house. Good, that means. She's like, is it contagious it? Was funny, but I was saying one thing I did not expect was Julia and Brian kind of pairing up, being, you know, being this daring duo. I could go for more of this this friendship. I really could. Yeah, I thought, I thought it was really cool because I also, you know, before they actually show what was gonna happen, it made me think of what you were saying about like, how are Ellen and Julia gonna meet? Like, how is that finally gonna happen?

2:25 And so I did wonder about that when I saw how he just, he's really just so sweet. Like, why is he so sweet like this man just for no reason at all. It's just a good person he's in. Spite of both of his parents because at first last episode we were like, oh, it has to be his Mama no, I'm I'm starting not to like his Mama either I'm really not she's just so no I I don't know I don't know if I want to say she's nasty she. Is. She's just, she's just not nice to Julia. And you know what? I thought about this after we discussed the last episode and especially after watching the next episode, I was like, I wonder is she being that way to Julia just because she is trying to protect her status there?

3:13 Cuz I, and I think we talked about this during the blood of my blood panel at Dragon Con too. It's like, you know, you would think, OK, this is a young girl. She kind of, it's obvious she's not familiar with what y'all do here is obvious. She's not from Scotland at least kind of take her under your wing and be like, OK, this is how you're supposed to do things. But no, you're being nasty to her talking about, oh, you don't piss the fairies off. She's like, what do you mean I pissed the fairies off? She has no clue about any of this stuff. But what you're talking about. Yeah. And I don't know. I just, I didn't, I really didn't like her in this episode. I was like, you are being kind of nasty to her. And then I thought about I was like, OK, you know what I said, maybe she's trying to protect not just her, you know, her status there as I know he's not interested in her, but she is the mother of his child.

4:12 So that does allot her, I guess, a certain privilege in the house. And I feel like she's trying to protect that. Like, OK, we know he has his eye on Julia, so let me just be mean to her and maybe kind of discourage that. But I'm like, you're part of the reason why she's there. She's told you she doesn't belong there. She has a husband, she doesn't want to stay there. And you're you're kind of keeping her, helping to keep her there against her will. So why are you being so nasty to her? Yeah, that kind of annoyed me when she was talking about you. You got to do the the offering, thank the Grande or whatever. And I was just like, but how would she know that this is clearly the first time she's gone and gotten milk from wherever these ladies come from or whatever.

5:00 So it's clearly her first time. So how was she just supposed to know she was supposed to go to a rock and go praise the whatever for the milk? Like that's ridiculous. But like, you know, it's like you said, she has that that mindset that unfortunately, when women are in the same predicament, sometimes instead of us bonding together and building up with each other, we take, we have to put the other one down. We got to keep the other one down because, you know, your power is diminished. I don't know, like, it's so weird to me that, you know, it seemed like at first she wanted to protect her and then after a while it was just like, yeah, I don't want to protect. I don't, I don't, I guess you don't want her head to be on chopping block. I don't know.

5:41 She's just, I don't, I don't like, I don't like the way she's acting. For her. It's just stupid. Yeah, she's, yeah. I don't know. And I, I think it gets worse the more interest he shows in her. And like I said, I think that's part of the problem because even with her circumstances and and what has happened in that household with her, with him taking advantage of her and him raping her, whatever the situation was, because we also don't fully know what the situation is. We know what the rumor is. We know what the likely possibility is given how he is. But even even though he's a lecherous old dude, he really is, we've not seen him come at Julia with any forceful, you know, overtures. So it's also possible he may not have done that with, you know, Miss Porter.

6:31 He may have just kind of feel like, OK, this is what you can do if you want to keep your position here, which is not necessary. It's not rape, but it is kind of coercion or it is kind of, you know, blackmail or whatever. But we don't know what he's done. We just know what the rumor has been all these years. But we haven't seen him be nasty towards her. We haven't seen him be forceful towards Julia. Because I, I'm going to be honest, given what we know of his character, his reputation, I really would have thought that he'd have done that by now, you know, and maybe it, it, maybe it's something the show is doing to kind of veer us away from the whole sexual violence towards women trope.

7:15 Maybe. Could be or they could be maybe kind of sort of rewriting history. I don't know. But again, we don't really know the facts about what transpired with him and Miss Porter. We just knows that. We just know that she's there. She has a certain authority around the house and Brian is there. And now I guess with this younger woman, that authority is being challenged and she don't like it. You kind of wonder, 'cause she likes that favoritism. Yeah. Yeah. Like it was 20 years ago. So it could have actually been that she loved him back then. You know, we, I mean, we don't know what could have happened.

7:57 He could have been, you know, actually handsome or whatever. And he could have been the lair to show her some attention as a serving girl. And maybe she just was like, oh, you know, and then at some point she realized, oh, I'm not the only one. Oh, he's going to do this to every young girl. And then maybe that changed her mind about him. So it could have been that because she acts very, even though she's kind of, you can tell she kind of thinks he's an asshole, but she kind of acts possessive over like him. Well, the Lord the. Laird wouldn't tell him I made what she's doing with his time. OK girl, calm down. Right. Like I wasn't even asking. I was just like, Oh my God, he's coming. Back it's like, Oh no, let me go rub some words and I've you on myself because he's coming back.

8:44 Like I don't want to be. Touching me. And it also could be, it also could be that she tried to do the same thing of giving away, and she couldn't give away. And she doesn't have the privileges she's seeing that someone else is getting. Or he could have had. Or because she had her son, she was able to stay if someone else got kicked out. So she may be worried that that will happen to her and then she will be sold to someone else. Who else got about it? Yeah, she came along. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But the the truth of it is because of the time that this is taking place, we really until they tell us specifically, until they show us what transpired between him and Miss Porter, we really don't know. Yeah, You know, and the and the other thing too could be even if it was the more serious aggression, even if he did rape her and we've had this conversation, she probably was a a child or a teenager teenager when this happened because she doesn't look that.

9:53 She doesn't look that old, right? She look like she could be in her 30s, maybe 40s. You know, Brian has got to be at least about 20. Even if it was that because of the times, and I think we discussed this in the last episode, really nobody would care, you know what I'm saying? And maybe to make sure that her child was taken care of, she kept her mouth closed. She still served the way she, you know, served him so that she wouldn't be put out on the street. Her son wouldn't be put out on the street. Yes, he's known as the Fraser bastard, but at least he's claimed and not just out there on the streets begging.

10:39 I mean, unfortunately, women in her position, even if she was a rape victim, didn't have a lot of options back then. So it could be just like, you know, I hate to say it like this. It's the, it's a product of the time. She's probably like, oh, OK, he had his way. All right. I'm gonna go on doing what I do because what else can I do, You know? Yeah. Can't really go to the authorities. They're not gonna do anything to her. They're gonna be like, well, you're his servant and you know. And it's that thing, you know, like their attitude about, like him wanting to ruin Ellen's reputation because it's so much easier to ruin a woman than it is to even do anything to a man.

11:23 Like whatever man did, The thing is never going to be. He might be killed by a brother or father for, you know, whatever. But when it comes down to a reputation, it's always her reputation that's going to be, you know, so late or whatever. And it's like one of those things when you're a servant, none of that really matters because nobody cares about you, you know, So that, yeah, that's that could be very much the case. And, and because she's in that kind of rare position, she is the mother of his child. What however the circumstances happen, she does have to think about protecting herself. I get. Him. I just don't like the way she's treating Julia because it's like, you know, this girl don't want to be here. So why you know she don't? Belong, right?

12:05 So why are you? Telling if she keep telling you that. Yeah, really. But I don't know, I, I think we'll probably learn a little bit more about Missus Porter. Maybe we may even see what the history, what her history is with him. Maybe a few episodes down, especially now that, you know, Julia has now told him that her child is his. Maybe we'll see some background and we'll understand what the the situation is with with both of them. And maybe that'll endear her to me a little bit more. But right now I'm just like, stop treating the girl like she, you know, stick in the mud. It ain't her fault that she's here. You know, Maybe if y'all weren't so keen on selling people. I know.

12:52 And then just being. Right. Just randomly right? Speaking of selling, look, Speaking of selling women, let's talk about Ellen and Colin real quick. Oh, I'm, oh, I'm the Laird now face. Right. Yeah. Attendance. However, festivals are beneath me and my new station. Excuse me, I was. Like, however I I do, I do feel what he was saying when he he was talking about how you were so into dad and dad don't know you.

13:34 You see how the rest of us had to go through some things and how Dad was not taking care of the books and the final like he was supposed to, right? Of course he wasn't. Of course he of course he wasn't. She's. But. I believe him, yeah. Oh, yeah, I yeah, I. Think, I think the question came up somebody asked it was like what do you think he's he did that on purpose or do you think the column is lying? I was like, no, I don't think column is lying. Column one thing about his character column is one of those people. He is very bluntly honest. You know he he doesn't really hold back what he's thinking even the older version of column that we saw, he's never really minced words.

14:21 He said exactly what was on his mind. It may not be the. The. Nicest way to say it, but he's always said the truth and even in this. Right. And then you can also read between the lines of also what he was saying. That's why I was basically saying about how you how this privilege and you know, and there's stuff going on, yeah, that you'll be so certainly surprised that Dad did so. But then you say we're even there. A month away from having to sell the family silver like Howard. What? Even, but even there was like, you know, people didn't like your dad. And so I can only imagine he was out there doing things, flaunting money and spending wrong and doing all kinds of stuff.

15:07 And people looked at him like what this sucker is doing and they just didn't respect or like him. But they were afraid of him. Yeah. You know, but that right there when he said that, I was like, come on now what? It means she really does have to marry to save the Klan because even if she marries Malcolm Grant, and even though she told him, OK, so if I marry Malcolm Grant, you realize my loyalty is going to be to him and his house, right? But if she does marry him, like she said, they got to come up with a dowry and that that marriage will help them out because then they can go to the grass and be like, hey, we need some money.

15:52 We gave you. We gave you a perfectly good life. Which again, I mean, Ellen called for what it was she was like. So when you sell somebody to another clan, you're selling them body and soul, which means their loyalty as well. How about y'all just stop selling folks? Yeah, but you know, and we'll be OK and we will be OK. But of course, 1700s. This is why it pisses me off that people go through all this BS about marriage and who should be married and marriage, sacred marriage, marriage this marriage. I'm like yeah marriage is sacred to the two people who are married who are in that relationship and it's their business.

16:34 But just don't come with me because y'all used to just tell women y'all used to use marriage as a 2. That's still going on to this day. We just happen to be in the country. But typically it doesn't happen like that. But it's still happening. They still selling our babies to get married. OK, like, don't tell me how marriage is just this. Oh, this. Oh, come on. It's. Happening in this day and age in this country because there are a lot of people now who are getting married not because they are in love with someone, but because of what the benefits are. You have people who are getting married for financial benefits and and and they literally have these discussions. OK, so if you and I get married, you know, we don't necessarily, I mean all kinds of stuff.

17:19 It's kind of like Rainier and what's his name and House of the Dragon. She was like, OK, so you and I get married, my duty to the Kingdom, and then when we're on our own, you go do your thing. I go do my thing. It still happens that way. Nowadays people are like, OK, you know what, I make more money, but you have better, you have better health benefits. So we can do this and then we can figure out like, do we want to have children together? Or you have some people who are who are gay or lesbian and and enter into those kind of marriages because of protection, because they're like, OK, well, yeah, you're we're cold.

18:05 We don't necessarily have to do this, but you know, let's just join for whatever the benefits. You have some people who are like, do the best friend packs. OK, if we're not married in 20 years, we just going to marry each other. Just chill. It happened, right? It happens. So, you know, that's, I think that's one of the things that I have an issue with, with everybody trying to push this whole marriage agenda now, especially for someone who was married for 16 years and who was unhappy for most of those 16 years. You know what I'm saying? Like stop acting like marriage is the, the, the thing that's going to just make everything better. It's not for a lot of people.

18:47 Yep. Not everybody can be as lucky as like you and Adam or you and Anthony. Yeah, that's just the reality. And. It's somebody who you know. Try to right, and then some people who actually want to be married, they be like, well, we really don't need to be married When we committed, we do it. Yeah, we're living this life. Right together. But in the 1700s, those women don't have it, no. You know, no, look, my daddy was late on rent so I was sold to the the the next door neighbor, right? Yeah. Or just reminds me, you know, like 80 years old. Yeah. Oh, God. OK, 'cause when we get the OK, 'cause when we get to that, I think it's the second.

19:33 'Cause I don't blame Jamie for Mama. I would have done the same thing. They're like, look. And she was only. I think Geneva does say he was only 18 when she was married to the 8th Earl Ellesmere. She was like, I will not have my first time be with an old man old enough to be my grandfire. It's just like that. What's your name? Jacosta. They've just, they dark hammer, old as snot. Yeah. Jesus wheeze and corn grill. OK. Just too much. Yeah, but Ellen, I mean, she is kind of in a between a rock and a hard place. Because on the one hand, you want your freedom.

20:15 You want to be able to do what you want to do. But on the other hand, you don't want to see your family come to ruin. Even though your brothers, who are now the layers of this family are acting like Dicks, you still don't want them to be ruined, you know, because that's not just your house. That's just not them. That's literally your family legacy, your family, your family reputation. It's what's going to be said about all of you guys, you know, because as column so eloquently points out, their dad is dead. So what he did in the past, don't nobody care about that now. What are y'all doing now? But let me tell you one thing about that Ellen. That girl going to play up her lies. She is going to play up her lives because after all this stuff happens, after she has the argument with column, after she has the argument with Dougal, and then she meets up with Brian Fraser because he comes to LYAC to be like, OK, I just, I just need to look in your eyes and see are you are do you want to marry this Malcolm Grant person?

21:28 Oh, OK, you don't want to marry him. OK, so so we're going to figure this out. No. When she goes back and she gives Column the piece of paper, she was like, oh, this is everybody that needs to be, you know, invited to the wedding. I was like, this girl is going to play it up all the way up to the day of. I feel like she is going to be one of those brides that run from the altar. Like that, you wouldn't even be like, I'm surprised she did that. She seemed like she was into it, and I was. Right. That's what you wanted. You wanted me to be. You wanted me to do it and do it. What was a column? Say and do it with a smile on your face. Did he?

22:09 Did he say something like that? Or am I imagining that he did say that? Didn't he do it with a smile? Excuse me. Oh, OK. Yeah. Here, spend all spend all your money on the on the invitations and and putting this word out, we won't have us a big wedding. I was like, oh, I don't know if I want to see how this is going to work out. I mean, because again, Brian and Ellen, we already know the story. We know roughly what happened. We know they got married. We know they had children, multiple children. So obviously she does not marry Malcolm Grant. And he doesn't. Blow up, this is about to be. Right, and do we, and then I may have missed it, is Malcolm Grant in or we talk about him at all an Outlander? He's mentioned in passing.

23:05 I know that he's mentioned by Arch bug by Arch bug, and I know that at the beginning they mentioned him, but I don't think we see him because he's part of a different clan. So I don't I don't think we see him in Outlander. He's probably already dead because I can't imagine. Well, then again, from the from the beginning of Outlander to where we are now, it's been like a lot of years. It's been probably about maybe 30 or 35 years at this point, Maybe a. Little, but he would be least in the be beginning. He would be in the beginning.

23:50 Yeah, almost 50 years have passed. So he would have been in the beginning, but he probably would have been, I don't know. He probably would have been married to somebody else. But I don't think we, I don't recall seeing him because we only saw like the McKenzie clan when they went to collect their rents and I don't think I remember Grant being mentioned so. Far back. It's been so long. So we don't know what happened with him, but. Well, we do. He don't get married. Well, at least not to Ellen McKenzie. He. Don't. Not Ellen McKenzie. Not to. Her but going backwards kind of leading back to Ellen, the whole thing with Brian and Julia, because Julia, as we mentioned before, she puts like the Poison Ivy or poison oak on her skin so so that she has a rash and then she tells the lair she was like, well, Missus Porter won't let me leave to go to the apothecary.

24:51 He was like, Oh no, you need to go and get that taken care of and I'm a send the scary bodyguard with you and Brian was like, no, I'm take her. And I was like, why is Brian, like, just offering, like, his dad is going to get suspicious, Like, oh, you got an eye for her? That's why I was. Thinking at 1st and then as they're as they're writing and then he and they get to LYAC and he's like, no, I need you to deliver a message from me. I was like, oh, OK. So he picked the outsider. He picked someone that he felt like he could trust because he already knew. OK, she's married. You know, she's not going to come on to me. I might can use her as an ally and in exchange I can offer to help her. I can be an ally to her and I can offer to help her try to get away from here.

25:40 She does. He does know that she is pregnant and he does know that she is missing her husband. So I was like, OK, again, I like this friendship or this what could be a friendship. But again, the close proximity of Claire's parents to Jamie's parents was not something I expected with this show. You know, I saw the previews. I was like, OK, so she's going to come into contact with Ellen at some point. That's cool. Now she has had contact with both of his parents. So that also makes you wonder about the whole star crossed lovers thing. Like, were they always destined to be together because their parents were in such proximity to each other? Like, how does that work?

26:28 But I like it. Yeah. And I, you know, she comes. She comes into LYAC. She meets Misses Fitzgibbons. She lies her way into Ellen's chamber. And I love it. Ellen was Ellen with Steph, as. I don't know he's talking about. I don't know she, I don't. Know. And the the OK, that's fine. Do you want me to say it out loud right here in the hallway and. She was right there, holding fast. It was when she said I'm the bridge. I'm the bridge bridge. Like. OK, well get in the room 'cause you, you actually may have some information. You may actually have some information. You're in the chaperone because she was really smart trying to set her up. Yeah, she was really smart not to just be like, oh bro, you know, like. She's smart, right?

27:13 I don't know who you talked about, right? Malcolm is my man. When she said I'm the bridge, she was like, oh, OK, yes, you need to come in here right now. But post call, 'cause he almost got his ass caught by Dougal and I don't think that would have been that would have been very pleasant for him. We will not have a Jamie Fraser if Dougal had called him. Yeah. That is true 'cause he was this close, this close. Like she was like, I need you to go because somebody's coming. They literally are still walking through the trees when Dougal comes through. I was like.

27:55 Thank God for his darkness and no real lighting and like dark clothes because he was looking in the dog on forest like he was why are you out here like Oh my God. I was like this. I was like no, no, no, no, no. The other thing I love about Julia is she's so quick on her feet because, like Brian gave her instructions, like go talk to Miss, you know, Fitz Gibbons, do this and give this message to Ellen. But she had to like the gift. Like she just came in and was like, yeah, I'm doing that. Use the information she knows to just kind of get in there. Threw up. Yeah, murder me and murderers this that. I'm like, Julia is all her shit.

28:39 Like she is so smart and like, I mean, I know she's made some mistakes out of being like in pure shock, right, like of being in this place, this new crazy place and she doesn't know how she got there, But I feel like she's doing a great job of like making her way through this time with what she got to do, you know, because I probably crying in the corner somewhere. I I I couldn't handle but she. I wouldn't make it. I wouldn't make it. Right. My my survival was done when I got sold, right? Right. And then I was sold. So I would be like I I don't really know where to go from here. Right, because you still be sitting there like how, how you going to sell me?

29:20 You don't owe me how I'm my own free person. I'm going to get out of here. Yeah, I'm done. I'm on that scene now. And, and they and they be taking the strap to women because Dougal threatened to do it to Ellen. And she was. Julie was going to get it from the lair and Brian took the the lashes for her. They don't care. Beating you like a child. Or worse than a child 1700s. I can't No, I couldn't. No, I'm a grown. They started right. I remember watching when Jamie did it to Claire. I was like hold up hold up, hold up. He just. We doing what? Yeah, I.

30:02 'Cause, you know, that used to be that rule. I mean, could be the woman with a stick as long as they want no bigger than his thumb. His wife. He could be his wife, no so many dead husbands. See ya. That's OK. Yeah, 'cause. I don't know what happened to him. Right. But then again, I don't know, it's like I've, I kind of sort of feel like for the most part, we are women of our environment, right. Yeah. So. That's three. On this particular podcast, we would definitely say Ain't No Man from the hit Me, whatever, whatever. I'm not sure we are. The three of us will be so strong in the 1700s. I don't know.

30:45 No, because you will read the room. Look, you will read the room. And. Not be like. It's how we would have been raised. I mean, and I'm saying take, take the blackness out of it. Take, take us being black out of it, just us being women in that time. It's how we would have been raised. We would have been raised to think that that is normal, that that is acceptable. And that's just the way of the world, which is why I'm so glad I was not born in that time because yeah, no, no. But yeah, she, she, she thinks very quickly on her feet. And Lucky Ellen does too because Ellen's like, OK, so this is this is what we're going to do.

31:27 You know, she's in her room pouting. And Glenna kind of, sort of knows why, but at the same time doesn't know why because she knows, OK, she really doesn't want to marry Malcolm Grant, but she doesn't know that Ellen is in love with somebody else, right. So Ellen is sitting there and she's having a conversation with Julian. And she was like, yeah, I'm going to be stuck in here till Beltane. And that kind of what's going on at Beltane. Oh, I have to attend this festival with Malcolm Grant. And we're going to do this thing about the, you know, the dancing of the 100 years. And Julia's like 100 years. What is this 100 years thing? And then she starts telling her the stories about the travellers who come through the Fairy Hill and they do this dance, you know, during Beltane.

32:12 And then when they go back, 100 years have passed and everything that they've ever known is gone. Julie's like, oh, that sounds familiar. That sounds familiar. But that sounds familiar. And it is kind of similar to the story that Claire was told when she was at Leox. I was like, OK, so she's going to figure out it has something to do with Beltane. So of course, you know, her gears are turning. She was like, OK, so we got to get this figured out by Beltane. And when Ellen talks to Brian, she's also telling him, OK, I'm going to be a belt and he's like, bet I'm going to be there, too. I was like, now all about to pair up some shit.

32:54 But again, we don't know what's going to happen with Julia if she goes to the Stones at Beltane because we don't know if she could travel pregnant. She doesn't know if she could travel pregnant. Oh yeah. She doesn't even like, is my husband in or is my husband in our time? It's one of those things where you don't know what you can do, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Like I can go back forward into time with my baby, but my husband may be stuck here. Or I can stay here, find my husband, and still be kind of trapped. Because now you don't tell this lie when the when the Laird kind of corners you and he's trying to sleep with you again, you like, yo, you got to be gentle with me. I'm pregnant with George baby, right? They got to be gentle because of course, back then, if if women were pregnant, you got to leave them alone because you don't want them losing the baby.

33:54 That's when you go find your mistresses and stuff because you can't I tell you these times. But I mean again, quick on her feet, but. She. Was now she's she's going to be in a pickle because I feel like with Laura Lovett knowing that she's pregnant, he's not letting her out of his sight anytime soon. How is she going to get away to Beltay? You know, Brian is like, OK, yeah, we can go. I'm a try to help you escape. How is she going to be able to go? Yeah. I know and and not only did she just tell Lord Lovett here come Miss Porter in the backroom, in the room.

34:38 Oh, guess what, Miss Porter? We pregnant. And then he said, I hope it's a boy. And I'm like, Oh no. So now you know Miss Porter about to be even. More. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. She's going to feel some type of way about that. So because. Now she's going to have to not only she tried going to try to protect her place, she's going to have to protect her her son's place. Which it's kind of interesting because technically speaking, this child would be a bastard too. Unless he decides to marry Julie, which I don't. See happening so that's the part I I didn't understand about that like his excitement about another child that would be a bastard like I don't so I understand why he's so excited and why this child would be better than Brian. You know what I mean?

35:27 Like. So going back to the whole Missus Porter and her behavior thing on that, I feel like maybe he he's thinking about this differently because if he did in fact take Missus Porter by force, or if he kind of coerced her into it and she was not a necessarily willing partner, that could also color his feelings about Brian because that was a reluctant coupling. She got pregnant. Here's the child and I don't know, maybe even though she's still in the house, she maybe maybe those looks that we were talking about her giving him and maybe it wasn't that he was scared of her. Again, maybe that could have been a little bit of guilt, but maybe it also could have been her way of being like, don't forget, I got your only child.

36:23 She could be also be using that over him. Now you flip it to Julia. Julia went to him willingly. So in his mind, he might look at that situation a little bit differently. Oh, she came to me. She wanted me now. Now she's pregnant. This is my child. He could feel a little bit more excitement because there's not that that dark cloud over that particular relationship. That's just the way I look at it. I mean, yeah, that that that's the tracks, actually. You could feel that way. Yeah, so, but if that's the case, that is going to cause some problems for Miss Porter and Brian whenever Brian finds out that he quote, UN quote, is going to have a new brother or sister, so. Yeah, and I don't even feel like he would believe it. Like really, We had a nice little talk on that little road trip and.

37:22 You told me you were already pregnant. Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully. Yeah. When he hears that, hopefully he will see it for what it is, like a cover. But I I don't know. Miss Misses Porter. I don't know if she thinks that, too, because, remember, she already had her suspicions about Julia Berry. Right. Right. So I don't know. It could be that she'll think, Oh, well, maybe I was wrong because if he slept with her, surely he would have noticed. But most men are not going to notice that anyway, you know what I'm saying? Oh, yeah. She might have just had a little, a little belly.

38:04 I don't think they pay that much attention in in this time, you know, so. Yeah. I don't know that that whole situation is just still it's, it's very squeaky, but we'll see how it plays out. But on the other hand, poor Henry. Yeah, that poor guy, he's just been going through it right. And D is just. Right. And then that and at the end when the young lady was like, like, really, you know, how can I help you whether you need whatever. And I'm thinking don't do it.

38:45 I know you're lonely. Don't do it. But we just say, I can't, we just lay together. I got I felt him like he just need to sleep. He needs someone to hold him, so he goes sleep. Yeah, 'cause by the time he had a Pete that PTSD dream or. Whatever, so he can do that. Yeah, Oh my gosh, I again. I'm just like. Yeah, He just makes me want to cry for him. Every plays those scenes so well, so sad. Like even when they're just sitting at the table talking about the lottery tickets and his hands start shaking just. I was like, he is playing this so well. Yeah. And I just. I just want to.

39:25 Sit there and like you really want to cry because you feel what he's going through. This man that been through some shit. Yeah, and then when they attacked him, he went into GI Joe mode. Right, let me tell you the way Arch bug was. Looking at him, that's why I understand why arch bug keep messing with him because he see how wildly he is, why you keep messing with this man and that's why arch bug. But if you arch bug, you'd be like, you know what? Can I just kill him? Can I just like, kill him? I mean, he said. He said as much at towards the end. Of I know, but just seeing all of this, you just be like, I don't trust him.

40:07 I don't know what's saying like. He's in danger, like we need to get rid of him. Like. We in danger, Molly, We in danger. But you were the one who brought him in. Yeah, but we didn't know he was like this. Now he, he, he, he quick on his feet, right mentally and physically. So you know. Sassanac. He's just, you know, little smart little nerdy Sassanac. Oh, no, wait. He's a soldier. But you know, I'm, I'm sitting here wondering about the possibility 'cause I'm like, on the one hand, I would really like to see Henry and Arch go at it just because I'm so sick of Arch and his smugness.

40:48 Ain't he a little like he? He really does remind me of the the latter arch bug that we saw, not the one that was there and he was, you know, loyal to the Fraser's. But everything from the moment that gold was fine, I was like, he did a 180 and I was like, who are you and why have we liked you all this time 'cause you are in the ass, Sir. Yeah. This is that. That's the Archbug we're seeing right now. I really kind of want him and Henry to go at it. But then I thought about, I was like, no, because Archbug is the type of person he will kill a person and not think twice about it. And I don't want to think that that could be what in what happens to Henry.

41:32 Like you think about Julia may never find him because of that, or that could be the reason why they never went back. I don't want to think that Archbug has something to do with his death. Oh my God, Can you imagine? She just stuck her husband. Did she just? Oh, girl. No, ma'am. No, Sir. And then think about the future repercussions. The fact that the male who killed your father was actually living with you for years. Probably didn't know. Of course didn't know it, because he doesn't know anything about Claire. I think him and Missus Buck had some suspicions but didn't know. But if you think about it, but again, this show and the repercussions that it will have for the future show, that would be crazy. If Arch Bug actually kills Henry and then later on he's like serving in the household of Claire, that would be crazy. That would be crazy.

42:31 But I'm not going to think that because I don't want to think of Henry dead. So we just going to leave that alone. But Henry, OK, here's another one. He's quick on his feet. Isaac Grant sent sends him to go not only collect the rents, but oh, yeah, you going to raise the rent as well? And you're not going to tell him why it's raised? You just going to let them? You just going to let them know that that's the service that they can do for their their lair? You just going to raise my rent and not tell me why? And then you feel like he just did that just to test Henry? Or was that literally him just being an asshole and raising the rent? I don't know, I just feel like there was something in there. Being an asshole. I'm about to say him being an asshole because. Who did like that's so messed up. They don't need the money, but we just don't take it anyway. OK, and and see, This is why I said I feel like it's just him being an asshole because the way that Henry ends up raising the rent, you know, same thing that we saw in the regular Outlander. Some of these people don't have enough to get by, much less pay their regular rent.

43:38 And then an extra shilling on top of that. Like, the woman who had four kids was pregnant with another one. Her husband died, and all she had to give was honey. So when Henry starts, when we see their flashback and he's thinking about the lottery system, how they put it together, and they have this whole discussion about how it can help people, how it can give people hope. He's like, OK, this is what I'm going to do for the rents. He was like, OK, for those of you who can't pay your full rent, you pay what you can. For those who can pay, if you want to pay a little bit extra, we're going to put you into this lottery system. And there's going to be a winner, and the winner won't have to pay rent for a year. So Arch bug, of course, he's like, what are you doing? Everybody has to pay the rent.

44:28 He was like, if people can't pay the rent and the people who can pay it make up the difference, what difference does it make? The money is going to be there, of course, all that sophisticated. So he's like, I don't understand. OK, just watch and see. And by the time Henry gets done with all of this, he's raised. What'd he say? Twice? Right. Because you want to win the prize shoe. Everyone's putting in all kind of money so they can win a whole year. So you've you've literally doubled the rent, not just increased it, you've brought your employer double what he was supposed to get. But Isaac Grant doesn't like that industry. I'm like, what does it matter?

45:16 Somebody's not going to have to pay rent next year. Guess what? You have it right here, right? The rent has already been paid for. And you can do it every year and everyone's going to pay more just so they can be have that one, that chance of winning. Right. But I don't know something about this time. They're like, they want to be literal. Oh, OK, this person owes me 10 and this person owes me 10. OK, Instead of that, I'm going to pay 5. He's going to pay you 15. It's the same money. It still comes up to $20. What? What does it make a difference if somebody paid more and somebody paid less?

45:56 You still got your money. But I don't know. That's I don't know. That's that's clan math. May. I don't know. May maybe if maybe if Red Jacob had done that kind of clan math, they wouldn't be in dire straits right now. And Clan Mackenzie. Selling the selling their jewels and silver, no. Right. Oh my gosh, marrying off their daughters who they promised wouldn't get married so. Yeah, but Henry's gonna have to slow it down 'cause now there's suspicious of him. Yeah. Yeah, Arch is like you want me to kill him? No, not yet. Hold up, Not yet. Now I don't like what he's doing, but he is not giving you some money.

46:38 Right. Are we gonna wait? Like, why are you mad at that at all? And so, yeah. And, and I'm gonna tell you why they're mad at it, because he's making them both look like he's making them both look stupid. Yeah, that's why. 'Cause they are. You just made me twice what I that's what really that's like. Oh go collect $50,000 in rent here. I brought you 100,100 thousand because of the way he did it. What? Yeah, and it sucks because why would you do that to people who, you know, are so poor already? It's a capitalist society and struggling already. Just just cause capitalism.

47:33 And then, you know, that causes dissent because as soon as you know, this person can't pay, well, why do we gotta pay if they can't pay? And then it's like, why do that? But as soon as he came up with the lottery, they were like, look, I'm taking my chances with this, with this 6 pence or this 5 pence or whatever and see what I can get, right? It's worth it. I mean it's literally why the lottery is now at 1.4 billion because them $2.00 is worth the chance. Thing that I forgot to go play tonight. Well, maybe it'll roll over. The way that we try, I feel like they definitely let it let it roll a little bit. Right.

48:16 To see just how far we going to go, how much we going to put into it, which is what literally what they need to be do. If they could have done that over and over again, just let him reset it up and they would have continued to do that if they thought they was going to get something good like not paying rent for a year. You know they like just that's a money making scheme if I ain't never seen one. Like, that literally would have made the Grants the most profitable clan in the Highlands if they were to continue doing that. But there's Harry on the flip side. OK, now he's still searching for his wife and the brothel owner has called him and she's like, I have what you're looking for. I knew she was lying, but the way his face fell when that other girl walked in.

49:10 Yeah, it was sad. And then she was like, I know I'm not the woman you're looking for, but my my mistress doesn't want to lose your business. Well, maybe your mistress shouldn't have lied to me to get me here. That's the first thing I you lied to get me here. You told me that you had what I was looking for. I told you I was very specifically looking for a someone, not a some type. I'm looking for a very specific woman. And you bring him to someone who is not what he's looking for. In the way his face broke and he was like, have you ever wanted something and didn't want it at the same time? Because it's like he wants to find his wife. But he would have been so heartbroken if he had found her in a brothel.

50:01 Because that would have been, I mean, he would have understood it, I feel like. Because again, you ended up in the 1700s. And to be fair, she could have been sold into a brothel, so I guess you might actually be lucky, right? But I mean, cause the brothel, even if she was even if she were sold to a brothel, if they would have found out she was pregnant, they either would have thrown her on the street or they would have given her, they would have forced the tea on her so that she could lose the baby so that she could go work. Yeah. So but this episode had a lot of echoes from like the Outlander series as well. The whole thing with Henry and the horror in the brothel reminded me a lot of William and Jane. You know, when William was like, I just want to be here, I don't want to touch you.

50:57 I just, I just need to be alone. I just need a place to think the whole thing with there was something else that I thought and I was like, oh, this is kind of familiar too. I can't think of it now, but yeah, it it has some echoes. But again, here, let me tell you, I think I'm starting to become more intrigued with Julia and Henry story than I am Brian and Ellis. Not to say that Brian and Ellis is not interesting, because it is. But again, we already know what the end game is for them.

51:38 You know, we're just, we're just getting the background story of how they got from here to where we know them from. But Julia and Henry, because they are unknowns, because we don't know anything about their story to see what they're going through right now, that's the most intriguing part of the episode for me. I'm just like, I just need them to get back together. I think Michelle and I were talking about that this weekend. Like, we just want them to get back together. I don't care how it happens. I just need it to happen. But then I think at that point, then that's when it's going to start getting a little bit more depressing because, again, we know that they never make it back to Claire. Yeah. And that's going to be the sad thing because you see a flashback of them and this one, they're so excited.

52:24 Naming the baby. Having a baby, like she's already got, you know, a little section of the apartment set up for the baby. She's got books like Peter Pan, which is her favorite. They feel the baby kicking for the first time and they're discussing names. Of course, at this point, they're thinking it's a boy. So they're like, they're going to name him after Peter Pan. He's going to be Peter Beecham. But and then later on, he says if it's a girl, it's Claire. Claire. Like they were so excited to have her and to be ripped from her and never go back to her. That's going to be the part of the story that I really want to see. But also, I think that's the part of the story that's going to break my heart the most, whenever they realize that they can't make it back to her or whenever whatever happens to them to keep her from going back.

53:13 Because we don't know how her parents actually died. We don't know if, especially because of the show, we don't know if they were back together when they died. We don't know if they remain separated, if they ever find each other. We don't know. And then even once they get together, you know, you know is is is is the layer going to let them be free either layers going to just let them. Go. Like without chasing them down or trying to find them because one feels like he owns her and the other one feels like well you're my bloody here so you're here with us. You're a grant now. Boom bang. Like you die to leave the grants. That's it. But the But The thing is, he told you from jump, I am only here looking for my wife.

54:00 Yeah, y'all were the ones who were like, well if you work for us, we can put some resources behind. We can help you find your wife. And then I was like, oh OK, yeah you can look for your wife. But don't you spend so much time in Inverness? Right. Like he's here. OK. I did you not hear me when I said my wife was my priority? Yeah. I just, I think one of the biggest things about this time period, I don't like the way people treat each other. Yeah. And I'm glad like it's, it's better in our time. Yes, we do still have a lot of that going on, but not to that extent for the most part, I would say.

54:43 But I just don't like the way, like they literally look at people as objects to own and to trade and to sell and to disregard or to discard. It's yeah, it's so disgusting. Yeah, that's it's pretty horrible. But it also makes sense for why Claire never got her parents back. Yeah, 'cause they have all these obstacles they're going through. I don't know. I don't like it. Yeah. OK, 'cause even if they went back, however long it would take them to get back, they probably been pronounced dead, you know, or whatever. And they probably had whatever services or whatever. It is probably not a funeral funeral, but they probably have done something.

55:39 Yeah, they did something because I think Claire mentions it when she's talking about her history with Uncle Lamb. I think after the funeral he was going to, she mentioned he was going to take her to a boarding school so that he could go off and do his archaeology thing. And she put, she pitched a fit. She she refused. What was it she said she refused to let go of the car door. And he finally looked at her. He was like, OK, you can come with me, but you're not going to do this. We're not playing with dolls, and you better not touch my tools. It was like one of those things. And she was like, OK, got in the car. She was singing happily because she was glad she was going to be with him.

56:19 So I mean, I guess I love that part. Like at least she did have a loving relative to look after her. Yeah. Yeah, and, and she became a pretty well-rounded person. She became a very good person, probably a little mouthy sometimes and and quick to temper. But you know, overall she's a good person. I'm glad that that happened for her, but it just kind of makes you wonder what would have happened if she had had her parents or if maybe, OK, let's talk about it. If her parents did go back, depending on when they went back, she could have already been an adult or she could have been in high school. If she's with Uncle Lamb, she doesn't have a permanent address, right?

57:06 Or Lamb probably would have sold their home or whatever, you know. Or she could, she could have been gone, but they could have came back when Claire went back, yeah. Or they could have came. Back when she went back. Found her and been like, oh, she's happy in her life. We're going, you know, we don't want to cause any upheaval because at that point, if she's, if she's an older person, if she's grown, she's already made her peace with whatever happened to them. Because for her, there was nothing weird about them dying. She was told they died in the car accident. She never had reason to think otherwise.

57:48 Right now. That does make you wonder, though, all the times that she and Brianna and Rodger have talked about them going through the stones. And I think, Michelle, I think you may have mentioned it either in the panel this weekend or you mentioned it in our last episode. You know, you have the gene, your daughter has the gene, your grandchildren have the gene. So we know moving forward, all your people have it. Have you not stopped to think at some point, well, did my parents really die? Like did you stop to think about where were my parents when they died? Like did you did she ever get the details of the Scotland?

58:30 They were they their, their car was found in in the river near such, such. Because if I think if she had been an adult and she had heard where her parents died or she knew where her parents died, especially after she had gone back and came back the first time, you would think that that would trigger something in her to say, well, maybe my parents didn't actually die. But I don't know at that point. I don't know if there's any other kind of research that she could have done for that. You know, she probably could have found out where the car was found because I'm assuming that's how they knew her parents died in a car crash. They found the car. They flipped over car, Yeah. Yeah, and of course, they did get washed away in the river.

59:12 Maybe her, maybe whoever's found the car, they were like, oh, they must have been swept away. We never found any bodies. They could be whatever. And depending on how long it took, they could have thought all the animals got to them, nature got to them, whatever, whatever, because you don't find bodies. But you never found bones either, did you? You know, it's just one of those things where I wonder how much is Claire really thought about whether or not her parents, you know, one or both of her parents were travelers and how far back that traveling gene or whatever it is with them goes back. That would be interesting to know. Maybe it's something she'll think about towards the end. Yeah, that's what I was just about to say. I wonder if, because they're trying to head towards the faith thing, would they go back and be like, Claire finally clicks like, hey, and then, you know, it's hers 'cause we're thinking it's her sister, right?

1:00:08 The faith that they're talking about could be her sister. Could be her sister or yeah, yeah, could be her sister because Claire was already 5 when this happened. Or actually could be. What if it's her? What if it's her niece? Or yeah. Or that, yeah. Or yeah, or niece. Or could be because I think Claire in this version of her, she is she's probably her 70s now or close to 70. So that means it will probably be a niece or maybe great niece.

1:00:58 It could be her, her siblings granddaughter was Faith. And then you know, but that there's there may be some kind of familial cook connection there. And I think somebody else mentioned it. Jane does favor Brianna a bit, so could be, but that's a whole bunch of speculation. We still have lots more to go. Yeah, we still have 6 episodes for this season because we are getting 10 episodes in this season. And then as we mentioned, they have already been renewed for season 2. They're already in production for Season 2. So we do have quite a ways to go. This is just early speculation, but it is going to make you think.

1:01:44 But I think we may get some answers by the end of this first season because this, the last season of Outlander will air in about 6-7, maybe 8 months. And I have a feeling they will find a way to tie the two shows together so they have some answers before we start the final season of Outlander. Yeah, because I mean, I would still watch even if they gave us a hint about where they they end up. I would still watch because I know what you know, Brian. And Ellen, regardless. This this show has sucked me in. Tell me. Yeah, this show has sucked me all the way in. I will definitely be watching.

1:02:25 I don't care if none of it connects. I'm just like, OK, I just just tell me the stories. I've look, I will figure out my own way. This will be a good way to get back into writing some fan fiction if needed. Just. Just give me some stories. I know, I know. But OK, so so let's go back to our main people. Ellen is plotting to meet with Brian during Beltane, and she's doing this by pretending like she is all on board with her marriage to Malcolm Grant. So I hope that's not going to come back and bite her in the ass column is being an ass. Dougal is being an ass Brian is the is the ally we didn't know Julia needed, but we are glad that she has Laura Lovett is being an ass Missus Porter is being an ass Julia.

1:03:23 We're about to see how her little lies about to Hello Apollo wants to be part of the podcast, so we're about to see how Julia's lies going to affect her. And then Henry that PO man. We just need him to find his wife. Yeah. And we need him to do it before he has another episode. I like that he is finding a way to control his just by thinking of her and by having her. Was it Saint Anthony pendant? Yeah. But I have a feeling Henry's PTSD is going to be the theme. That kind of rule, I don't want to say ruins him, but it's good. It's going to be his undoing with the Grants, I think. Because I don't know if men back then show their PTSD the way that he does, you know what I'm saying? Because I don't think even back then, most of those men have yet been through a real war in the way that Henry has. Right.

1:04:37 Right. So that's going to be the thing I think that blows his cover or that makes them say, OK, you know what, we got to get rid of this dude or something's not right. I just, I don't know. I just, I just think that when the the the straw breaks the camel's back, Henry is going to be that camel. Yeah. And that's going to have some very ugly repercussions for him, I think. Yeah, it's yeah, that's God. Just being in a different time. It's barbaric as hell but you've been through probably the most barbaric thing ever whatever war and like you're like y'all just don't know. I know, I know.

1:05:22 Y'all just don't know. I could kill all y'all sleep. Going through a crisis? Oh my gosh. I mean, when when Mr. Bug woke him, I thought he was about to get punched in the face. Like, you know, you're not supposed to. You're not supposed to, like, startle them when they're in an episode like that. So I was really worried. I was like, oh, this is about to be ugly. But Bug was just looking at him like, what's wrong with you? You was calling the name Julia. Like what? Well, you know he looking for his woman. Before his woman. So, yeah, but who? OK, so we just gonna have to wait to see how the shit hits the fan with all these folks next episode. You guys have any final thoughts about episode 4? Oh, man, I think, I think it was a good episode. It's very emotional.

1:06:22 Yeah. I think it just reiterates how much I hate the time period like I do. I do not romanticize this time period at all at. All you know what? And I think that's a good note to end on that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.