Outlander S7E11 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #324

0:25 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Michelle and we are discussing Season 7 episode 11101111 episode 11 of Outlander. And I'm going to say it just like I said it in the last episode, I would really like for Claire to be able to have a wedding that she is happy to be at. Granted, we didn't see her wedding to Frank, but still, the fact that he just kind of. Sprung it on her. We sort of sort of her went into Frank, sort of.

1:05 We saw them slide on into the courthouse. Yeah, but that's not sort of that. That's not the same. So Hanukkah was creating a GoFundMe for players. Like Claire and Jamie need to have a renewal of vows where they can sit there and they can say their vows and she's actually looking at him like, oh God, surprise. That they haven't done that. But wait a second, what would? They have time between when. Married. He got married after she left. He got married, yes, and we we don't even know what that wedding was like, but it. Was but what I'm saying is and then so when she came back, they let it later.

1:48 Have a wedding but they have time between Claire. And they were building, they had time when they were building the cab. I mean the cabin house, whatever the big house do. You remember all that other stuff that was going on? They didn't have time between all. The other day, it is not like you need hope. They could have went to the top of that mountain and declared their love together and exchanged by. They don't take. They had too much going on, OK? They were just. I'm just. Surprised, because officially I I'm confused and we really look back legally. Are they really married anyway? Well, Claire. And Jamie are legally married but I think because of the fact that she came back and it was proven that she was still alive, his marriage to Leary was invalidated now.

2:38 But no, her her her marriage to Jamie is invalid because she was married to. Frank. That, that, that's 200 years apart. That's not she got married in the church. They got married legally in a courthouse, so really? But technically speaking, her marriage to Jamie is first because Frank hadn't been born. Yeah. But that's not even right. So when she did get married for the first time, it was invalid and illegal. OK, so they just need to, they just need to redo because Frank is dead. I just need Claire to have a wedding where she could say her vows to her groom.

3:26 It actually mean it and not be depressed and not be grieving and not be half there because you went back. You went back to look at the wedding episode, right? And she did not look at Jamie now and tell why she was saying those. But the. Only time she woke up is when they cut her off and she was like what what's happening? Right. Like, huh, What's going on? Yes. So I need Claire to have a proper wedding, OK? Like everyone go sign on to the Go fund, yeah. I mean with with, you know, friends of the bride on one side and friends of the groom on the other side and I need her to. All I know is this wedding needed to be short. They keep adding words. Yeah, I just needed her to say I do nothing else. Well, you know, they got to get, they got to give it some kind of pretense, like it's a real like Lord Josh said. I just need you to have her repeat. I do.

4:19 She cannot do anything else. But that's the that's also the reason why Misses Fig and William were there as witnesses, because anybody else they would have been like, excuse me, does she even really want to be here? At least with William and Misses Fig, they understand what the situation is because I'm pretty sure with Miss Misses Fig being the main servant, the main, you know, the person who runs the house there. I'm sure she's aware of the conversations that go on. So she probably knows why Lord John married her. William, I think was he, he was justified in going to his dad and saying, hey, Are you sure? Like, why did you do this?

5:03 Because she's a rebel and I understand her husband was your friend, but still, like you are putting your name as a top British soldier, as a loyal British subject, you are putting, you know that you're going to, you're going to put that on shaky ground because you're marrying a rebel. And well, you should have stopped asking your dad because he's been crying for days, so clearly this man meant a lot to him. Yeah, but you know, back then again, most men don't don't give in to their feelings like that and they don't talk about. It because even when I talk about that's why I see it. You should get a clue that clearly I got something deep going on.

5:45 I mean I'm not saying deep like that, but like he like a brother because you moping like she moping. I mean, I teach y'all to get out of date. But it's kind of I understand the kind of position. Because he did the right thing making sure any good friend or son would be like an easier or you want to. Yeah. But like Laura, John is already in a precarious position. One, because William is Jamie's son. He's trying his best to keep that secret. But also he has to think about how it looks to other people. Like you are friends with the Rebel. And if you remember, and I think that was Season 6 when they when they met, right before Brianna and Rodger went back through the stones, they had that conversation and Jamie was like, it's probably a good idea for us to cease our friendship because we're on opposite sides of this thing. So.

6:39 I don't even think it mattered. I think he just, he loved Jamie so much. She just want to take care of the things that Jamie loved and he's been doing it since the beginning, so he's going to continue on. And I love how they they show Claire like she's in the miss of the ceremony. She's having a hard time struggling with that last little line until, you know, what was it to love and to honor until death do us part. She was having a hard time getting through that line. And, you know, Lord John just kind of takes her hand to reassure her, like, OK, everything is OK.

7:19 And when she looks up and she looks at William, her whole face changes because you're like, this is my husband's son there. There is another piece of him in the world. And then you also get to think about it like, I actually kind of sort of get to be a mother to his son now. And now and I see him walking around and it will give me my lovely memories. But I'm going to tell you right now, OK, I got another thing at the end of this series. I will. All three rings to be on on both her hands because friends, I I didn't realize she was still wearing Frank's ring. Yes.

8:01 So now I'm like, well, you better have Williams ring on. You mean on the Lord John? On a a pinky finger. Yeah, but you OK, So if you'll remember the episode in Season 6 when Jacosta was getting married, you remember that that Stevie Phillip Wiley, who who was trying to accost Claire in the stable and remember, Jamie took both of the rings to go bet against him. And him And Claire had a big conversation about that because she was like, whether you going to take Frank's ring? Because Phillip Wiley was looking at it. You know, he had made a comment about, wait, so you're here with your husband, but you still wear the ring of your dead husband. Oh, that you must be a a rare breed of woman, some kind of loyal woman.

8:52 And he was really looking at Frank's ring because of course, Frank's ring is gold. So Jamie was trying to get the ring from her to go, you know, to go bet. And she was pissed off. She was like, well, if you don't take this one, you might as well take this one too. And then he wanted. People, we should not be mad at Frank. She still wears. You know what? We're not having this conversation. I'm just saying we're not having this conversation right now. We're talking about a whole different husband now. We. Don't understand 'cause then you know Frank, but you know she still wears his ring. We will talk. And she totally understood why he had an affair. We was her heart wasn't easy. Yes, that's true. But we will. He was a great. Fan, you know what we're going to.

9:34 Talk about Frank another time, so I understand. So now I want her to have all three. All three rings are. Yeah, because the one thing about their their marriage, Claire and Lord John and, you know, again, we're going through the episode, it's like weeks because you hear that in just the different language. When they go to visit Henry. He mentions that it's been weeks since the surgery and, you know, so we're getting little bits of, you know, indicators of time. But I just think it's so interesting that they are both grieving this man. And even though Claire says in their moment of of grief, when he's comforting her in the in the room, you know, she was like, he's not yours, he's not yours mourn.

10:25 But at the same time, I think she also understands the depth of the feelings that Lord John has. 4th Jamie and it's kind of weird but but they can kind of comfort each other in a way. But I love the fact that even though this is not a marriage of love, it's more so a marriage of convenience. He's still, he still treats Claire with that kind of respect. And, you know, he does little things like, OK, I know, you know, I I didn't tell you we were going to host this dinner, but I had this dress made for you. And when he told her opening, he was like opening. It was almost like a, you know, giving a present. He is.

11:09 He is just so. Yeah. Yeah, are you saying liking Claire with a double entendre? No, I, we clearly, we clearly he clearly put out forth it. No, he don't like Claire that way. Yeah, it's been 15 years maybe plus. Since he had been with a woman, right? Yeah, and. He was being with her just to be close to James so. Yeah. And I don't think, I don't think that was something that they did on purpose. It was he came in like, I'm not going to. I'm sitting there screaming and he over there drinking and was like. And she's drinking too. Right after she tried to kill herself, I was like, but I was looking at Claire like, we are not about to have a Romeo and Juliet moment.

11:55 Because the moment she would have killed herself, Jamie would have walked through the door and been like what the fuck? And then he definitely would have killed Lord John, right? You couldn't. You couldn't keep her. Or, or, or even on the opposite end of that, he would have understood because of Lord John was giving her her space. You know, he probably wasn't thinking that she would do something like that. You know, she's a strong person. She is. You would, you know. So. And I like I, I was thinking, I like when Ian was talking to her, like, OK, I'm going to say goodbye to you because I figured you going to go home. And I was thinking the same thing I told you off, you know, on the air that, oh, she will go home and be with her grandkids.

12:36 And like how she said, like, the future is not it's not my time. This is my time, right? Yeah. I'm like, OK, honey, she's not going nowhere. Yeah, because she wasn't. So that's why they need to die together. You know what? Because even in the future when she was living, as she said, she was living a half life, she was there with a husband that she cared for and she did love, but she didn't love him in the way that she loved Jamie. And, you know, she was just kind of, I guess in, in a sense counting time. Yeah, she would have been in that room. Just I don't know. Here. Be down to her knees, matted like they just pass on her food, barely making. It like Missus Havisham in a great expectation. Yeah, that would have been Claire. That would have been her.

13:26 But that is not the case when Claire has her, her moment of crisis, when she gets ready to cut her arm open with one of her surgical tools, she starts having the you know, she starts hearing Jamie's voice replaying her head, saying, you know all the different things about Claire. I can't, I can't imagine you dead that that would be more than I can handle. And you know, nothing. What does he say? Nothing dies. It's only changed. Nothing ever dies. It's only changed. And he's talking about, do you see how small such a thing is as death is between US? And she's hearing all this stuff and she's like, frustrated 'cause she doesn't want to live without him.

14:06 But at the same time, I think she understood that for her, I think for her to kill herself even because she's grieving Kim, I think that would have been dishonorable to his memory, you know, and everything that they share. Because like you said, yes, he is gone. You still have a daughter out there in the world. You still have grandchildren out there in the world. You still have this extended family that would be affected by your death, not only by your death, but by your death on top. Of his death, yeah, but she. I know, I know, think. About that because first of all, she already know to her daughter she's dead. Yeah, anyway.

14:49 Yeah. But so OK. Yeah, but she's in that room. She's screaming. Lord John is downstairs with his alcohol and his chess board, looking at the empty chair. And he stumbles upstairs and he tells her, he says, I will not mourn him alone tonight. And you see kind of like these in and out images of him comforting her, of her beating and screaming at him. Like I said, she told him, she said he is not yours, he's not yours. The morn. And you just see them kind of comforting them, each other.

15:30 And then it gets to a point where you see them kind of clawing at each other, taking each other's clothes off. Then the screen goes black and then it comes back and Claire's in the bed waking up and she's in the bed with Lord John now. I. Prefer that I will say this. I love the way that they did that because as much as I love Lord John's character and even with Claire, I don't I don't have an objection to that union. If I, if I had known, not known that Jamie was alive, you know what I'm saying? Because I think that they would be a good comfort to each other. And then I think. With Claire, if he was truly dead, right, If we knew he was really, really, really right, yeah, I would be. That would be like the perfect thing because that gives you the freedom to kind of do the things that you need to do. It's another like you can be the doctor you want to be. You can be a spy.

16:27 Like you can be in the rooms where other people can be in the rooms. So it will been a perfect union and then you will be able to be around his son, you know, see his son get married and have kids. So it would it would have been the greatest thing. But also that is a friendship that they both need, I think. Yeah, they do. Because even even with the bed talk, the pillow talk that she and Lord John were having, and she was like, have you never talked about things with your lover in bed? And he was like, no, like, and and she was just looking at him like, that's so sad because again, the whole idea of marriage back then, like Laura Johns says, he said, I know many conventional marriages where the spouses don't know anything about each other.

17:17 They don't really, you know, it's kind. And I just, I couldn't imagine it being in that kind of marriage. Right. And see, what helped Claire in marriage with Jamie was because of the time she's from, even though it's different. Yes, she talked with Frank. So then with Jamie, because I realized that we're watching the wedding episode, I was like, Jamie, you talk a lot like you telling things that you probably shouldn't be telling, but he was telling. But it was nice. So that's how they grew really close to each other quickly because he was having those vulnerable, intimate moments with her where he was talking. I'm like, well, you spill the beans.

17:57 Like he talked about anything. Like, I never touch a boob. And I mean, it was like, you tell everything, but what did the guy say about you? This is what the guy said about you. I mean, you said every little thing. But I think which? Opens her up to talk so he is a talker. The only time he wasn't talking, but he was going through a trauma that that was the only time it was quiet. She had to pull it out of him. But he's a talker. So the reason why their marriage is like that, I don't think that I think it's because of the time Claire was in. And Jamie is a very open person. And that's hard to find someone who is open, that's freely like tell you his feelings and, you know, not afraid to be like they said, you know, I should stay down there longer and eat because if not, they be like I'm whipped. I look too.

18:50 And she said, what you say I'm whipped. I was like, OK over that. Yeah, yeah. So I think that that helped them a lot too. And then also. So it said that Lord John doesn't have that. Yeah, but also with them, you know, they were getting married and they really didn't know anything about each other. And for for Jamie to be a man of that time, to be 23 years old, had never been with a woman because most of the people, I mean, this time, most of the fathers are taking their sons to the whore houses at 1415 to, you know, break them in or whatever. And the fact that Jamie never did that, one that talks about his character as a man.

19:33 And I think part of his talkativeness during that time was to let Claire understand this is who I am as a person when I say that I am yours. Now, But I mean it. And then going back, the reason why, I think it's because of his parents, Yeah. He had a good example. To you like so I think they like 'cause you even see his relationship with sisters. They talk so they had a family that like shared things which. Made him respectful because he's very respectful of women. So I think that started from that. We're doing some family therapy here that started when he was younger. But going back to that scene, I really enjoyed.

20:16 No, I am thankful that they did not show them having sex. I don't. Think I would have I. Don't. I don't want to see that because the only person I want to see her with is James. And yeah, I'm OK with Jamie dies her being with another person. But it's just better that we really don't know. But know what they did. Yeah, we know he she beat him up because he. Had scratch marks. All over his chest. And we know it's it was probably not your basic vanilla because he apologized to her for not being very gentlemanly. And she was like, well, I don't think I was very ladylike either. So, and the fact that she didn't even remember, she was like, I, I, I rather thought I dreamt that, you know, you're drunk, you're in the throes of grief and rage and all of this other stuff. And you had a moment.

21:11 But I like that they didn't shy away from it. It was just kind of like, OK, so they're sitting there talking and you kind of sort of see them getting a little comfortable with each other just talking. And like I said, I feel like that is a friendship that they both need because her her experiences with Lord John mostly came through Jamie. And I think at this point, just like he tells her later on in the episode, he was like, in this house, we have to survive. And if we can do this together, then we will always have him, which is true. Like, let's let's work together.

21:52 Yeah. But it is also very weird because, again, you are talking about a man who was also in love with your husband. So. I I get that it he did say that it has moved on to just a, a, a deeper connection with him that necessarily don't have to be that we have to be Yeah, yeah, he's a great friendship and I'm like literally raising his. Son, Yeah, yeah, because when she asked him about that, that time that Jamie asked in his body, yeah, he was like, yeah, if I would have taken that, then it would have tarnished what came after that, the friendship. And that was the most important thing to me. And I'm glad that she told him also.

22:33 Yours was one of the friendships Jamie cherish the most in this life. So I'm glad that he has that and that they had that and I'm. You know that he was a great person for his son. Right, right. Because really, if Jamie didn't, if Jamie had a problem with Lord. Yeah, he would have said something long time ago and try to take that boy and stuff like that, so he knew it was a great person. But then so they go through the motions again. We don't have an we don't know for sure how much time has elapsed. But Claire does have to make an appearance with Lord John as his wife at a dinner thrown for the British. And I really was wondering, I was like, how is Claire going to keep her mouth shut?

23:27 But again, Claire is in mourning. So she had her whole personality is different, is so different. So even when the young girl who was trying to dance, who was trying to flirt with William asked her, she was like, so Lady Grey, what do you think about these things? And Claire was like, I wouldn't think to give my opinion. I was like, Oh yeah, this is definitely not. But guess what? She still gave her opinion. Because when the girl walked off, she looked at him like, why? You can't dance with her, right? She was nice. She was nice, but she she was also very, very aggressive. But she was like, she was nice. She could at least dance with her, right? I can't because, you know, I don't feel it. I don't feel like dancing since Rachel left.

24:07 But yeah. But OK. So Speaking of Rachel, we'll come back to the clear stuff later. But Speaking of Rachel, finally, Ian and Rachel finally get everything out in the open. They both finally said that they love each other and Ian tells Rachel about Emily and his past. With the Mohawk and everything. So I was like I was. Glad for that because I wasn't sure if he was on tail or not. I don't think I'm like this is you need to. Tail Yeah, Ian is much like his uncle James. That's. What I'm saying he's he's been around. Where he just doesn't have the Polish. Yeah, he just wants to talk. Or you just assume, I assume that I already asked you that we were going to get married. Just because you told me you love Ian baby, that's not how this. Works she told you I loved you so we're we haven't even he haven't even gotten that far.

24:56 This this is not how this works. I mean, he was in complete surprise. Like we didn't talk about marriage. Rachel was like, no, I think I would have known if you asked me to marry you. I wouldn't remember that part. Right. I don't drink so I wouldn't remember. Right. But you also with within you know, one of the things that we talked about in the last episode, we were kind of worried about seeing how he reacts did to the news of Jamie's death. So we don't get the actual reaction, but we do get to see him making the Cairn and talking about it and his conversation with Claire, what he talks about. I feel like I lost 2 fathers, but y'all gonna stop trying to make me cry.

25:41 But yeah, I like the fact that we are seeing a little bit more of in and Rachel's relationship and them coming together because that was one of the things I was saying. You know, we saw a lot of her, the build up of her friendship and potential relationship with William and I felt like we wasn't seeing enough of that within. But now we're starting to see it. So I'm, I'm glad because I don't think he would have kept the Emily stuff from Rachel because that's too big a thing to keep. But also at the same time, it's, it's kind of like when he's sitting there, he's talking about his dad, he's talking about Jamie. He's lost them both.

26:21 And then he has to tell this woman that he loves that he was formerly married and that he got kicked out because they lost two children and. Didn't find out I actually did have a. Right. And then you find out that you do have a son, but you can't raise him because it's, you know, he's better off than that. It's like one of the things that you always say, you realize how much Ian has lost and you just want him to have a sliver of happiness. So I'm I'm so glad that Rachel is of that understanding sort where she listens to this, that she was like, OK, you know what? You just unloaded everything on me. I love you. I'm telling you very. Very honest man but I what I really liked about that conversation is when he said Emily chose me. But I grateful.

27:08 But I choose you wholeheartedly and I hope you choose me too. And she does sound like AR and B song. You know what we talk about art No, that was for that was for Walking Dead because I was like something something that was happening. I was like OK y'all just going to make AR and B playlist so OK. But I'm I'm glad they finally got that out the way and and. I really need to take that bonnet off and let that hair down. But you know, it's just it probably it better comes and get her straight now. Get her straight. But I think as a Quaker, she has to keep her hair cut. I want it down. OK.

27:49 OK. All right. OK. So basically. Oh, OK. I was going to say, you trying to say you want to see a honeymoon singing? No, I mean, I don't want to. No, I don't want to see them do anything. I just, you know, I just her to just, you know, they be out in the running in the field and her hair just flowing. I don't know, OK with them. They just look so happy. Yeah. She just looks so pinned up right now. Right. Just for me. Yeah. Yeah. OK. But I understand. Going back to the Claire and Lord John thing. So did I not tell you, Cap, Captain Richardson was a little shady? He was, but he played like you don't know these people. You don't know and then. First of all, this ain't the time.

28:31 OK? You figured out who she was, but this ain't that. You don't know for sure their relationship, right? So for you to be like, yeah, you could be a double spy. Yeah, I want you to spy on your husband and tell me. Oh, also, I want some dirt on his brother because how is it? How is back home in Britain talking to the House of Lords about reconciliation? He's trying to end the war. He's trying to say, look, there are losses on both sides. This is accomplishing nothing less. Let's see what we can do to bring about peace. And Richardson is like, no, we don't want that because that'll undermine everything we've been through, everything that we've done.

29:13 So I want you to spy on your husband, and I want you to get some dirt on his brother. Claire was like, excuse me, Sir. She should have been like, do you not see these three rings on my hand? I'm a very Lord woman. I'm not. I'm not. Betraying my hair. I'm about to betray my husband or his family for you. Yeah. And then he tries to threaten her where I where I you need to keep my confidence because people are already suspicious of the. Fact that, she said. You don't have to threaten me. I'm not going to tell on. You. She was like, we are on the same side. But I'm not going to do what you want me to do though. You don't. You don't want to piss Claire off.

29:53 Look, Claire got a whole bunch of potions. Yeah, but now this turns into a plus. The fuck with Jamie be alive is a lot to unpack. It is with how that's handled. Yeah. Because again, because she's clearly she's not going to stay married to Lord John. So he look like he's been harboring a spot. You know, it's just a lot. OK, so let's talk about Jamie coming back, because this happens almost at the end of the episode. Claire and Laura John are in her room. He's bringing the mail, talking about all the invitations they have, and he's getting ready to open another letter. And you hear Missus Fig downstairs. There's a visitor who comes. And I think it was Jamie's letter. No, he said.

30:37 It was, it was somebody else, somebody having to do with the war and the the the soldiers and stuff. But, you know, there's a knock at the door. She says, oh, yeah, they're upstairs. Well, I can announce you. And Jamie just kind of barrels past her and comes into the room, says Claire's name. And of course, there's a reunion. Claire and Lord John are both looking thunderstruck. Claire, of course, has to get her kiss in. And she was like, do it again. He was like, I, I wish I could, but I got. He said. There's a number of British soldiers coming after me. I'm like, Jamie, you just got here. How the fuck are you in trouble already?

31:17 Like, what did you do? Well. Clearly he don't have papers and he been evading everyone to get to the. Well, he don't have papers. Yeah, they're asking all the men from papers, and this man is moving fast and sneaking around buildings without giving papers. That's they looking for. Yeah, that's true. But anyway, so Lord John looks at them, and it's so funny because right after he gets over his shock of seeing Jamie alive, he turns and he looks down. And you know, the thought that's going through his head is he's about to kill me. He's going to kill me when he finds out. But he was like, hate to disturb this happy reunion, but your son is on his way home. And Jamie is like William, he's here. They get ready to leave.

32:03 William is standing right outside the door. He was like son. And Jamie is just looking like oh shit. But also I feel like Jamie was looking at that with a sigh of relief because now is all out there in the open. You. Say stop pretending. Sorry, he did. That whole government name. Yeah, because you got to remember when, when William first knew him, he was Alex Mackenzie. Now he knows him as James Fraser. So he was like, who are you, James? Yep, James Alexander Malcolm Mackenzie Fraser and who am I? And I remember when I read that line in the book when he said you are stinking papist and your baptismal name is William, William James.

32:48 I fell out laughing in the book because I thought it was so cute that he was like, you are stinking papist because remember, this is what you wanted. You wanted to be a stinking papist because you love me at this time. And I love that he he brought that to him to kind of maybe soften it or make him realize. But William at this point is pissed. Oh no, I'm I'm not finding the humor in this at. All and nothing, because now your whole world is turned upside. Down and Dad you a lie you're all new, you're all liars but well, I feel so bad for. Him. I'm so glad it's out in the open now because. I do too. Like I said, I've been I really want William to be pulled into maybe not fully pulled into Jamies world because you know there's going to be some anger there, just like it wasn't I no, I think it's I think, I think forgive them in two episodes, not saying forgive them, but I think.

33:47 And not forgive, but just be a part of that group. I think like want to have an actual conversation about this? I ask about his sister. Yeah, I think so. You. Think so? OK. All right. Just based on what I know from the books, there are some things that there's there's going to be tension for a long time, I will say. Forgive Lord John. That's in question because the 10th book has not been out yet. So I'll, I'll tell you about that off the air. But, but I, I think that there will be some tension, but I do think that there will be kind of sort of an olive branch to be extended, especially because there are events that are going to happen if they do them on the show, that's going to kind of require William and Jamie to work together.

34:37 OK, so but he also has to get back with his dad because he. Yeah. And he loves him, too, Yeah. And he loves them. He. Told him the other day like you were my greatest joy. So you boy? Yeah. But I'm gonna. Be like Ian to get 2 proposed. Yeah, but you you got, we have to give him time. Yeah, we do. He has. To to get it out to, to process it and to also, again, your whole identity is now like you've been raised as Lord Ellesmere. Yeah. So everything that you've known about yourself is not true. So we got to give them time to process it.

35:17 And I know that Jamie and Lord John will respect that. But of course, we don't know how that's going to happen because the Red Coats burst into the house to try to get Jamie and William. Of course, he's pissed, but he's even more pissed that the Red Coats just burst it. How dare you come into the House of Lord John Gray like this? And so Jamie points a gun at Lower John and he takes some hostage and they leave. And Claire is sitting there smiling like, OK, I don't know what the fuck is going on, but this is this is great. Yeah, that's the important. Thing and I said and then we should have gave her a few more minutes of filming and didn't have her realize.

35:59 Oh, she'll remember. She'll she'll. But you know what? I don't think so because she's not going to look at it. And Oh no she won't. But she know. But also she didn't. She know, she didn't, and ultimately he was dead. And second of all, she knows him, so they just have to. Talk about it. Yeah, now it's going to be. He going to be mad, but not mad at her. Yeah. Because he's not going to be like, oh, I feel like you're hard as somewhere he knows. Right, I think it would. I think the thing because once you make. It hard 1 honey I sat in my own crap and pee for like 2 weeks in that bed 2 I almost slit not my wrist. I went for the real vein right here where we take you know give blood and stuff.

36:46 Three, I don't even know what I was going to do. My heart stopped. I'm a whole totally different woman. Yeah. So excuse me if I needed comfort. Yeah. But I think the thing that's really going to be hard for him, I think he wouldn't have because of the circumstances, because she thought he was dead. Like, really, really dead. Like I literally had a man come in and tell me that he saw your boat. Go down your signature, yeah. That your boat went in the water? Yeah, I think if she had taken comfort with someone else, he probably wouldn't have worried. I think it's just the fact that it was Lord John, which for me, I feel like no, I would. Think it would be worse with someone else I think. It's OK with Lord John?

37:34 No, because Lord John. Because Lord John, even though he doesn't feel the same way, Lord John. Because it would be different if Claire was presumed dead and you would and found Leary again and had relations. I'd be like what? Well here's the thing, the first time you did it, you you know that Leary was the person who tried to have Claire Byrne as a witch. So you were dumb for doing that in the 1st place. Lord John, I feel like he's too close to the situation. And because him and Jamie, even though Jamie does not reciprocate his feelings, he does love Lord John. Like that is his closest friend. That is the person he trusted with the other most precious thing to him.

38:19 I think because of that proximity, because of that closeness, that might be the thing that makes it hard for Jamie, because how can you still be best friends with this man knowing this man has been with your wife? Yeah. You know, so that's going to be something that they're going to have to reconcile the. Deal and figure it out. You know, he they're mature, they're older now. It'll be different if they were younger. They're mature now. I think it'll be all right. I think it'll just be 1 episode. We're dealing with this. All you have to do is just beat them up one good time to get that energy out. That's seriously, that's all they you know, all he needs to sleep with Claire and beat up Lord John and just and then they done. OK, OK, I got you.

39:09 Yeah. I got you going back to Lord John though the situation with Henry and Mercerwood. I tell you because they were just throwing those eyes at each other. And they've been throwing them eyes. Again I told y'all she just she was upset and she was having a disagreement with that husband. She wasn't too upset because she had found love. But you know, it had been probably over a year, so she probably. Don't matter. She found love. She was good. You say he's at a better place. I'm going with my life now. But the fact that they are trying to get married in 17, in the late 1700s, yeah, very brave of them.

39:56 But Lord John was like, absolutely not. He was like, he is What about Viscount Asher, son of the Duke of Partlow? No, he is not about to have any secret wedding or otherwise, unless his dad agrees. And his dad will never agree to this. And I love that Claire, even in her grief, even though her her personality is kind of. Resigned at this point. I love the fact that she still calls him out on it. She was like, I never would have taken you to be a bigot. He was like, I'm, I'm not. I'm trying to keep them from making a mistake. And then when she presses, yeah, when she presses it a little further, he was like, look, I know what it's like to have the type of love where you can be condemned for, where you know it will be met with criticism and violence, and the type of marriage they're trying to do is illegal. He was like, I don't want them to go through that. Neither one of them.

40:57 Neither. One of them and I see his point. It's just a way, of course, he's a British man, he's a very proud man and. He said he just had to learn how to live his life in secret. He probably was like dude, you can't figure out this another way Marry you another woman and get but no, this is like car to come along. Nah, he's like, she is not going to be my mistress because. It and she ain't. She ain't going to have that. Because even when Laura John was like, Henry, can I talk to you in private? She said. With all due respect, sorry, this is my house. Whatever you going to say about my future, you can say it in front of me. He was like, OK, so I don't know how that's going to go because I don't think I don't think they got married in the books. I don't think there was a thing where they were trying to get married in the books.

41:50 But also at this point, how was already in town? I think no, he was coming to town. And so there's a lot that takes place in the books with how, which I don't know if they're going to do on the show because I don't think they really have time to do all of that because the stuff with how is like it could be its own separate side plot. So I, I don't know if they're going to bring that in. I would like for them to because I actually like Hal in the books and the the kind of the kind of reluctant friendship that he develops with Claire. I love it because it's like they're very respectful of each other. But Claire, of course, Claire in her mouth, she tells them what she thinks, how she thinks and she makes she's just like, OK, you just need to do you just need to do this. Like he in the books, how has he has severe asthma and she saves his life a couple of times because he doesn't understand what it is.

42:51 And there are things and she's like, you need to do this, you need to do this. He was like, I will not absolutely you will. And it's just watching it. Listen, you know, listening to their banter back and forth. It's so much fun. And I would love to see it with the two actors here on this show. Again, I don't know if we're going to get it, but it's it's about to get interesting because Jamie is back and now you got to go through and kind of you've got to refigure your life. Yeah. In a. Society with she's supposed to be married to Lord John and yeah, it's going to be. OK, so the other thing about that is a lot of people understand that she married Lord John because her husband died. But if he shows up alive and and the explanation of how he survived gets out automatically that that's fire. But.

43:43 Then it's like. Like you were married to a rebel, right? They still rebels. In the wrong location. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think he's going to care about that right now because. Hold on, none of them don't care right now because they honestly probably going to care about William, so I don't think they really care about the. Stuff that's about to the British is about to withdraw from the city, so I don't think that would be much of a problem. But like you said, now we've got to get all the Williams stuff figured out and then Claire and Jamie are going to have to reconcile. They're going to have to hash this out and then move on. And we don't know what they're going to do. Are they going to stay in Philadelphia?

44:24 Are they going to head back towards the Ridge? Are we going to get them going to New Bern at any point in time and reuniting with Ferguson Marsley? Because that is also a big part of the story around this time in the books. So, and I do know that Ferguson Marsley are coming back. I just don't know when. So it's, it's just there's so many things that can happen right now in terms of in terms of their story. But I think the most important thing at this point is we need to see kind of what the resolution is going to be between Claire, Jamie and Lord John and then figure out the William stuff because everything else.

45:06 Of. Course, but you know, I, I kind of want, I don't want this to become in between him and Lord John because that is a, that is a friendship that is absolutely. Important to both of them. That's all. That's all that's just that's needed to get that energy out. You know what I'm saying? And then Lord John is going to take the punches because he's going to feel guilty. And then hopefully Jamie, that's not going to kill him, but saying he going, he going to tear him up a little bit. Hey, I don't think he's going to going to kill him. So I mean, this is the man that raised your son, right?

45:47 So, and you already, your son already pissed off at you. You don't want to give him further reason because yes, William might be pissed off at Lord John, but that's still his paw. Yeah, it's. True. So, but OK, so let's leave all them to the side because we need to talk about Rodger and Brianna and what's going on with them on their end. So Rob Cameron did not. Nope. Take Jim through the stones and he has the audacity to show up at Brianna's house threatening her about the gold. And that we as a family don't get on a plane. Right, we're going to pretend like we one nice, big happy family. And go find the gold.

46:29 So American find the gold and once I have the gold in my hand, I'm a let you and Jim go. She really supposed to believe that, right? For real, No. And then you try to overpower her. The only reason why you did was because she had just injured her fingers. Because I think if she had full use of both hands, Brianna would have whipped that. Yeah, she would have stabbed him, but she got him good. She did. She clocked him with that friend, right? Real good, knocked his ass out. But he even like the way that we see him in this scene, you can tell he has lost it because every time we've seen Rob Cameron before, he's always been nicely off.

47:11 And you will lose it too if you've been interviewing a child for two days and they give you nothing. And we but, but we don't even know how long it's been at this. But that's true too. He's giving him nothing. And he talking about, yeah, there's some what there are some other ways that I can make him talk. OK, I will say this because in the books, in that scene, he actually threatens to rape Breanna. And what happens before she hits him with the frying pan or before she hits him? She actually does take her pants off because he, I think was he pointing a gun at her? I think he had her shotgun or something because he had picked it up in the hall when he snuck in the house. She'd actually taken her pants off like she was going to, you know, she throws the pants at him, He runs after her and I think she clocks him with a baseball bat.

48:00 I would have loved to have seen that. But the fryer pan was good too. But I'm glad that they didn't put that part because we don't like we have had enough sexual violence in this show. Even the implication of it was, you know, I'm glad they did not put it in there. And she just let him let him have it with the frying pan and without cold. Now we can't call Paige, e-mail, send a letter to Rodger to say you can come back home, right? But he's on his own mission, yes, with his sidekick. OK, you know what? I would totally totally be up for a Rodger and Buck sideshow. Y'all look this. As much as I always rant about the six, six episode seasons, y'all could do a little 6 episode art with just Roger and Book going through the countryside looking looking for either Jeremiah McKenzie the big one or Jimmy Mackenzie the little one. Because I love their dynamic in this. It's like the longer they're with each other, they play very well off each other.

49:02 Because when Rodger is asking questions and he's getting frustrated, Buck is right there with a viable explanation like the guy, because Buck is really more towards that time than Rodger is. Bugs looking like like this. That's how you ask, right? People will feel some type of way, right? But they do get some clues as to where this the ferryman is. And then they actually come across some guy who actually has Jerry Mckenzie's military jacket. And when Rodger tries to find out more information about the ferryman, the guy who has the jacket and his two adult sons, they feel very threatened and they like, they, they broke up like they're about to fight, which tells me something ain't right with them.

49:56 So because the guy claimed that the jacket was his, you ain't got no 1900s military jacket and you from the 17, like, so something is weird about that. And Rodger also feels it too. But he was like an RAF pilot would have fought to the death for that jacket. So he's starting to think, OK, maybe he's already dead and this is just pointless. And Buck is like, no, that doesn't necessarily mean that he's been harmed. Maybe he traded it for money. Maybe he traded it for food. I mean, if you think about it, this is a man who is very much out of time and probably had to do what Claire did. Claire had to do some quick thinking. The good thing that happened with Claire is that Murta found her and took her to Dougal in them. So she was able to kind of get her wits. Jerry probably did not have that kind of intervention. So he's already a strange man, dressed strange, probably look strange depending on what his hair was like his, you know, if he's in military, he's probably clean shaven, but he probably just looks like he is out of place. And so, so he could have come across these guys who have his jacket and they could have, they could have taken it from him, they could have robbed him, they could have done anything. So now Rodger has to make a decision. Are we going to continue to pursue this? And he decides he is because he still thinks that somehow his father being there and Jim being there, which again, he does not know that Jim did not go through

51:29 the stones. He thinks that they're connected and maybe Jim is with his father. But I started thinking about that and I was like, what kind of sense would that make? Because Jerry McKenzie wouldn't know about Jim and Jim wouldn't know about Jerry McKenzie because Rodger was only, what, four or five when his dad died. So it's a it's a long stretch to say, OK, maybe my dad has Jim instead of Rob Cameron, so. Yeah, it is, but hopefully they will reunite and somehow he will go back home. But The thing is, if he goes back home, that change so.

52:12 Not the dad. Oh, OK. So this mission has to be completed. And then you have to realize you really was thinking about your son, but you really need to reconnect with your dad. I don't know. For, for, for whatever reason, whatever reason, yeah, yeah. So, so I, I don't know, but you know. That Rodgers want to go back because he has a stone. He does have a stone, yeah. And he has one and he said we had to find two more and say why you didn't say that out loud. I mean, it's he. He means we have a hard time finding more stuff. Maybe not, maybe not. He looked up on this one.

52:54 He did, but the way he said it like we, we know, like hello, we did. This is. Yeah. We know you need a stone. Yeah. Don't have to say it out loud. I know. Just buy the stone and move on. I know. Two more stones. OK, I got you. I see what you're doing there. We'll see how it plays out, but let's see, do we have anything else to talk about in the center? No, I think we covered it all. Yeah, Jamie's back. Yay. Michelle grabbed my leg. She was like, yes, yes, I'm. And I'm glad they didn't drag that on. No, I mean what I say they're moving, but this one was a a little bit slower than last week. But they're moving.

53:37 Yeah, they're moving. Yeah, they're getting in all the stories and I, I really don't know how this is going to. I don't either. Have like whole clue. But that. But that's a. Good thing that's a good thing. But like none the final scene before it fades, the black. Yeah, yeah, but and it can't be that everybody happy because the way they go, they get into shit all the time. So it's like. Happy what's happening? I mean, they'd be happy, but stuff is happening, yes. Like, you know, they're not relaxing on a cruise. They are. It is constant. Yeah, it is constant, constant.

54:20 Speed bumps always say when stuff happens it like it's a speed bump. They are on a rocky road. Yeah, and this is this is even without all the stuff about the upcoming war. Yeah, their own, they have their own family issues when stuff happens and it's fine, it makes them stronger. But it's not going to end with everyone just being happy because it's not even realistic because there'll be something happening in the next week for. Them. I know, I know, but the important thing is Jamie is. So now I just need Ian to see that his other dad is not dead. Yeah, but he is gone. But he'll be back. He's he just took, OK.

55:02 He just took Rachel to Valley Forge so she could meet up with Denzel and the Fighting Quakers. He's coming back. He's not. You know, he's got a little issue with that. They're traveling alone and they're not married. I'm just saying. But I don't think Kenya would do anything to this. I didn't say I didn't say they don't. Do anything because I don't think they are. I know they smooching but I'm just saying just you know. They got Rolo, they they got the best, they got the best bodyguard. They do but that's not what I'm also saying. I'm like people be like they just take it. Y'all not marry y'all just traveling, just traveling like y'all taking trips courting.

55:42 Her he's Scottish look he's Scottish. They can say they're hand fast or or something. OK, I mean I'll. Go with that. OK, sure. So it it it can a poor reputation, but that's fine. The Quaker on the side of the rebels, Do you really think she give a damn about a reputation? Well, first of all, we Ian, she don't care. I think she told him she don't care. Yeah. Because I mean, they know what they are to each other. And she was like. And he is a very honorable man. So, right, Jamie raised them well. So OK, Jamie's bad.

56:26 So unless you have anything else to say about this episode, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.