Outlander S7E15 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #330

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Michelle, and we are discussing the penultimate Season 7 episode for Outlander Episode 15, Written in my own heart's blood. Yay. No, I don't know if we're gonna say yay to that. We're gonna say yay. We're gonna say yay. Did you enjoy the episode? Is it? Yeah, 'cause my feelings with Jamie's a tad bit better. OK OK, so so here's I I have forgiven him. OK, so here's The funny thing about that title. OK, so I've read the book. I knew what was coming.

1:08 As soon as I saw the title of the episode, I was like, oh, this is that episode. I don't know why it took me to seeing the title of the episode before it clicked to me that they were being very literal about written in my own Heart's blood. Because the same thing happens in the books with Claire and Jamie. And what happens towards the end with Claire getting shot? Jamie quit in his Commission by writing on Whelan's back. I quit in Claire's blood. Who's like Oh my God that just clicked. He wrote it in Claire's blood, his own hearts blood. I was like, I feel so dumb. But then I started looking online and there were other people who have read the books way before I did who also were like, wait, I just made that connection.

1:55 So I was like, OK, I don't feel so dumb now, but I mean, I was waiting for you to watch this episode. I said OK. But and see, The thing is what? OK, so last week you had said did you see any spoilers? And I said, OK, I have only seen like in passing YouTube like pictures. And you're like, yeah, 'cause there's somebody on there where it's not the truth. And I was like, OK, so I did see one, but I was like, Oh yeah, whatever. And you say it wasn't true. So then I wasn't expecting her to be shot because that's what their little screenshot was. Oh, Claire's been shot. And I'm like, no, she hadn't been shot. I don't. Whatever. And then you said don't believe it.

2:36 And then I was like, OK, so she really hadn't been shot, so I wasn't. Prepared for literally a somebody had done a graphic of a tombstone with Claire Fraser and it said RIP and it says Claire Claire from Outlander dies. I was like. Oh no, I don't see that. 1 Because that's some bullshit if ever I saw it. Like first of all, anybody who pays attention to this show pays attention to the marketing of this show, pays attention to the, you know, the interviews and everything. We already know Claire ain't dead. Just like when we thought Jamie was gone, we were like they have a whole other season of Outlander to film.

3:22 There is no you cannot do a Outlander show without Claire and Jamie. It's literally their. Story correct. And if you were? Claire, get shot. Yeah, 'cause if you were reading the books, I can truly understand because there was no other book afterwards yet, so you don't really know what is happening. But for the spot that I'm in, I know that Jamie's not going to die and I know Claire's not going to die, which also bothers me. And watching it because I feel like I am putting in all of this emotion for something. I know it's not going to happen yet. Now if this was next season and she got shot, I'll be like oh, this is what I'm talking about.

4:10 Hanukkah just want to talk about what he gonna do. They gonna die together that but I'm saying it. But being so early on, I'm like oh OK, she's shot. She about to operate on herself. That's what I text you. She been operating on herself. She know what to do. She seemed like it, didn't she? Because she was like, OK, so the bullet might be in the liver. If that's the case, I'm going to go into shock and that will kill me, blah, blah blah. That useless ass Doctor Who was like, oh, there's nothing I can do. We know there's nothing you can do. She told you you were incompetent, like from the beginning of the episode. So we already knew. But Even so, when I said that, Doctor pissed me off. But he was actually a little bit better here than he was in the book because in the book, he was a thorough asshole throwing through.

5:01 Like, I don't even think in the book he gave her that respect that he did in the show once he realized when he was like, you know, you're a good surgeon, Doctor Fraser. I don't remember him doing that at all. I could be mistaken. Like I said, I've only read that book once and I was trying to rushing through it. But he was when I say, oh, my God, I was like, can you get shot, please, Sir? Yeah. Because you. First of all, we talk about the fact that, you know, Claire doesn't get respect. She doesn't get the proper respect for her skill from the people who are quote, UN quote, more learned than she is because and like she said in this episode, you think that there's no way that a woman could do this?

5:48 And you don't know of any colleges that would allow the fairest sex to come in, even with Denny sitting there extolling her virtues. As far as her being a surgeon, she's one of the best surgeons I've I've ever seen. I've learned so much from her. And then when the doctor even says, well, what are your credentials? He was like, excuse me, I studied here with this person. So when I looked it up, the person that he says is his cousin that he apprenticed under is actually like, he is actually a historical figure. He's like well known in medicine. And so I was like, oh, I like the way that they tied this together.

6:30 But even that wasn't enough for Doctor Lakey. And I was like, you know what? You just need to go. Why? Why are you even here? You're not. That man made me so. He he, he was useless. Very much. So he was, he was useless, but very much yeah. So I so I wasn't expecting the 'cause we get right. So I wasn't expecting the shot at all. But when it was getting close to it and then those guys were irritating each other, I'm like, oh hell, somebody about to get shot. And I love the way that. They did the way that they did the camera work.

7:11 Yeah, the framing of it you. See Jamie's face, you see Claire's face. And I again, I don't understand why Sam Hewin does not get more accolades for his acting than than he does. Because just even the, the subtle movement when the camera pans to his face, he does this thing where he looks and his face does a quick double take. It's almost like a jerk, as if he were the one who got shot. And then the facial, the facial expression is like, at first you think, Oh my God, he got shot. But then the way his face changes, it's like, even if you didn't know that Claire was the one that got shot, you would know it by looking at his face because his face changes from a realization of oh shit, I got shot to oh shit, she got shot. And it's very is very subtle, but it's very noticeable. And it's just one of the things that I love about his acting as this character because you can tell if it was him, he probably wouldn't care.

8:24 As as Claire said in this episode, he would sacrifice his life, you know, for his man, for his soldiers, for the cause, sacrificing Claire that is not on the menu and just his emotion. Sorry about the camera movement. Apollo is walking behind my laptop. But just the the emotion once he realized that Claire is shot when he's trying to keep her from bleeding out, the conversation that he he's having with Lieutenant Bixby and then with Doctor Lakey, when Doctor Lakey says there's nothing more I can do for her, but there are other people I can help.

9:09 And he basically is about to abandon Claire. So I think part of that was, I really think 1, he wasn't able to do anything. There wasn't anything. No, there wasn't anything. He didn't know how to do anything enough. I also kind of sort of feel like a little bit of that was ego was I told you to come inside, I told you to leave, I told you would get hurt and you didn't listen. Now this is it. I I just kind of feel like that was probably up there. It's it's both bleeding moment. Yeah, it's both. I mean, both as in I told you to bring your ass inside the church, right? And two, this and now you're shot and I don't know what to do, right?

9:51 Have no idea. Like he has no idea. Was was gone. Denny left with the rest of them when they evacuated. So yeah, it was his reaction to all of that. And then, of course, we find out kind of right before Claire gets shot that of course, you know, battle of my mouth. We we've heard of this and history. We've learned of it. Of course they talk about it in Hamilton, which we referenced last week. So of course, during the battle, General Lee gets kind of afraid, he gets spooked, whatever. So he calls for a retreat of their men while Washington is telling them to press on. So this happens, of course, in the battle. Bigsby comes back and tells Claire about it. And so General Lee in this one sends Wheeling, which is one of the young soldiers under Jamie's command, to tell Jamie to come attend to him.

10:49 And Jamie is like, no, I'm not going. And Wheeling is like, but you have to come. You're being commanded. Jamie was like, what? What part of what's coming out of my mouth? Did you not? Understand I'm not leaving her. No. Like, do you not understand the words that are coming out of my mouth and not leaving her? And they're like, you can get in trouble. You can be, you know, you can be shot for a traitor. I don't give a fuck. Do you not see me holding my wife's insides in right now? So what he tells Whelan to do is to come around. He's like, take off your shirt, take off your clothes. And at that point? Right. And I didn't know what was happening. Like, are we switching clothes? You can't pretend. No. Everyone knows what you look like.

11:31 I didn't get what? Where it was going. Yeah, I was thinking, OK, we're gonna switch clothes. He's about to bloody up close so you can see I can't come. I wasn't expecting what he was gonna do. Yeah, OK. Which was to write in Claire's blood on Whelan's back, Sir, I quit Jay Fraser. And when Whelan turned around, he was like, show that to General Lee. He says, Sir, he's in a foul mood. I can't. He was like, show it to him. I was like, you think General Lee is in a foul mood now just because he got shown his ass? Try Jamie in a foul mood. Right, that's what you know.

12:11 You shouldn't even just go and tell him his wife is literally dying in his arms. They don't. But see, that's the thing, they wouldn't care. I know, but once you see the blood, you be like, he ain't coming 'cause his wife is literally that's his, that's her blood. Can you wash it off? Please, right, right. But I'm so you see all the emotion from him and that and when when Doctor Likey leaves, what did he say? I hope that. What did he say? I hope your I hope your soul burns in hell and the devil soughts them first or something like that. I was like, oh God damn, he real mad. Then he was like you. I was like, OK, that emotion, like you get it in the book, but there's no way you can translate.

13:01 Like you can't get that from the written word. You have to see it in the the performance. And he was so good in this, like Claire's on the table dying, and she was like, you called him a whore. Because you sitting there like I'm dying, but this shit funny right here, you just call him, right? Oh, OK, OK. Yeah. But you know, I'm always going to bring this up now. I'm hoping that afterwards, because Claire's going to be alive, I'm hoping that afterwards, Jamie, be like, you know what? This is what Claire felt lower John Gray felt and and being. People have the benefit of a body. No.

13:54 So. Right. So maybe you can, you know, I don't know. I know be a little bit better, but OK. Yeah. But I forgave him for this because he he was. That had to be a lot. You understand what I'm saying? Like, it's different. It's. I'm sorry. It's gonna still be different. It's different when someone tells you, OK, your spouse is dead, OK, we don't have a body. They're just dead. Then there he, he came through. And then, yeah, so you're like, oh, my gosh, they're dead. I'm heartbroken, of course. But then it's different than what she went through where? Where he went through where she is dying in your arms and you can't do anything about it at this point. You would like man, she should have gave me some surgery lessons.

14:48 To the top I. Don't. Think he would have been. I know he wouldn't be, I'm just making that joke. But I get the point. But see someone dying in your arms, Yeah, both of them is tragic, but the immediacy of I'm not sure if she's gonna live or die and seem like nobody around me is competent at this point or. Cares. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But thankfully, I would say this, Lieutenant Bixby, that's family now, 'cause when I say he did not leave Claire and Jamie's side, like from the moment he turned around and saw them on the ground and realized what happened, he was there. He was like, OK, what you need, You need me to do this. You need me to do that, OK?

15:34 Like, even when Jamie was writing the resignation letter on Whelan's back, Bixby was the one that was there holding on to Claire, trying to make sure that she didn't bleed out. Bixby, you family now 'cause when I say if, I don't think, I think if it wasn't for him, the situation might have gone a lot more. It might have been more chaotic. Yeah, it would. Jamie. Jamie had something. Not only was he focused on Claire, but he had something to also kind of make him focus. Because in order for Bixby to know what it is you need for him to do, you have to focus long enough to tell him.

16:19 And you know, when Claire, before she passes out or whatever she says, Denzel, I need Denzel. Jame is like, OK, I need you to go find him. Bixby takes off, doesn't. Question. Doesn't say nothing, doesn't hesitate. I need you to go find Denzel Hunter. Sure. And he comes back with Denzel and Rachel. And, you know, Denzel had to sit there and look at that situation and. You're like, OK. Right. Like OK so the greatest surgeon that I know is sitting on this table. Like he literally just said that not too long ago. What am I supposed to do?

17:02 How am I supposed to do this? How do I not fuck this up? Because at this point, they are family. Now they are family. And you know that he's sitting there and he's thinking like, Oh my God, how do I fix this? How do I fix this? But I mean, I have all confidence in Denzel because because he learned from he. Yeah, he learned from her. So I, I that's why I was like, OK, he's back. He'll figure it, you know what I'm saying? He'll figure it out. And what helped was Lafayette having those nasty cheeses delivered. Yes, because Claire was like, wait, is Roquefort in there? She said the, you know, the cheese is a mold. You can use that to make a poultice for after, I guess, stave off any infection or whatever. You know what, we like the marquee. We love him because he was like, oh, for Madam Frazier. Yes, let me send this.

17:56 So I, I, I love that part, but it was even before all of this happened. One of the things about Outlander, I know we have some issues with Jamie and the way that he is behaving towards Lord John and just. The. General behavior, but going back to the beginning of the episode, 1 of the things that Outlander has always done best is the romance, whether it be, you know, very explicit love scenes or if it even if it's just subtle conversation. And I think the conversation that we see Jamie have with Claire in the beginning when he's telling her about how her love heals him, how it takes away all of his pains, all of his scars and everything.

18:45 And then you see the conversation that's the flashback for them to the night before them sitting up under the stars talking about how to sort of like Destiny and and about war and Claire saying something feels different this time. Yeah. It is one of those things where even without all of the other stuff, this is the core of who Jamie and Claire are. This is what Draw drew us all into the show. Their romance, their love for each other. It's it's what what endures through all of the chaos. And I mean, we've talked about it before. Their life is so chaotic. And even when they reunited, Claire was like, I just don't know if we belong together because everything's always happen when we get together. And that is true.

19:35 But you also see them push through it and it's like they always come out stronger for it. And we know that that's going to be the case here too. Like whatever whatever tension they may have had over this whole Lord John thing, this needs to be. Over. It ends on this table. It ends on this table because, because I know in Jamie's mind, Jamie is like, you know what? What the fuck am I mad for? She's still here. She still loves me. We're we're still. Whole. You know, anything that comes before that, whatever, it's not going to be anything. And I understand how she must have felt, right? And I understand how she must have felt.

20:17 And like I said, with with you being lost at sea, there is no closure. If that was the case, what would have happened if you would have never made it back or if you it had taken more than a few months, it could have been a year, and Jamie would have showed up. So yeah, I, I really think that this puts things into perspective for him. And again, it's just one of the things that Outlander does so well. Everything always comes back to Jamie and Claire. And you see it illustrated very beautifully in this episode. And I was just like, OK, if this doesn't melt Michelle's heart and be like, OK, you know what? We're OK.

20:59 We can still. I mean, I'm I'm OK with him, but I'm still hoping that he fixed his relationship. Lord John to Grant. Cause Lord John doesn't save William, like in a big way. Yeah, he has. I'm just saying I'm just hoping that it it does, yeah 'cause if not then I'll be mad again next week. Yeah. No, they'll be, they've been saved this week. They'll be fine. Because look, Lord John and Ian were able to go save William, so I feel like that would pardon Lord John and Jamie's eyes. But now we got to work on William 'cause now that we is safe, he is letting the emotions fly.

21:41 And you know what? It's OK though. It is 'cause I'm sorry, I have to say he handed Lord John his ass and he was very, he was very right to do so. He was like, so you raised me to believe that an honorable man was like of the being an honorable man was of the utmost importance. You raised me to, to believe that, you know, a person who lies is untrustworthy and all this other stuff. And Lord John is just looking at him is like stick the knife in, stick the knife in, stick the knife in. I was just like, yeah, I don't know if this is the time or place to have this conversation because I feel like William could have had a lot more to say. And, you know, having it, having this conversation the way that they did just kind of quick and and short, like he allowed William to get some of that anger out. But yeah, no, they need to have a proper sit down talk because. Yeah, they do.

22:43 William has a lot of right to feel the way that he does. And even when Lord John is chastising him and he was like William. He was like William who? Ransom Ellesmere Fraser, like who am I was, What is my name? Who who am I at my core? And I love that Lord John just tells me you're my son. And William kind of startles and he was like, you're my. Son. What your name is I don't give a fuck. Right, like Boo infancy to now, right? You're my kid. I'm confused. And then and then the person that you would have named is a honorable man and it's fantastic.

23:25 Yeah. And then I want William to turn around and say only because you're in love with him. But no. I don't even think William sees that at this. Point No, he doesn't, but it was nice because I was just thinking my head. He turned around and say that because the way John was talking about, he'd be like, Oh, you like him? Yeah, yeah, I I think he would, but one would. Not he's not on that page. He's too heated too. I think also he's a little too naive. He is. He doesn't know that about his dad anyway, so that doesn't it, no. And he probably doesn't have a lot of experience seeing that because of course, back then it's it's illegal. So it's not like you would see two men prancing around anyway.

24:07 So I just don't think that's in his mind. But it is interesting because, you know, we had the conversation last episode about his relationship with Jane and how I feel like she would be good for him because she's going to make him look at things differently than the way his world. View has been since birth, like she's going to challenge him looking at people who are quote UN quote beneath him and just the Grays of things 'cause he's so black and white that he'll start seeing that there's so many different shades of stuff, so you can't just take it as it right or wrong. Yeah, because he raised you to be. Right, He raised you to be honorable, but there are some things you just not going to walk around and be telling truths to.

24:55 That's not necessary. Just like the whole thing when he said I'm never, you know, never is a powerful word. Like don't ever say you would never do something because what was it in the last episode when we had the flashback with Hal and Lord John, Hal told John, he said, please promise me that you will never give in to the idea of American independency. Lord John said never. And then in the next scene we see him taking the oath of the rebels because he's trying to stay alive and he he's in a camp full of enemies. So I think with this, you know, even though William is sitting there and he again, he's focused on the fact that James Fraser is a traitor, he, you know, he went against King Country.

25:47 I would never go against King Country. And that's when Laura Johns says never was a powerful word. Yeah, that's not underestimated. There's different things you may have to do for the situation and you. And luckily, Jane is going to teach him that when he rescues her. Yeah, but I mean, but even before that, just, I hope he really thinks about what Lord John says about Jamie because he was like, he's an honorable man. He's a fine swords man. He's this, he's that. And yes, it does sound like you can tell he's in love with him if you're looking at those signs. But even if not. He just has A and not necessarily I was joking about respect for him, but he has a deep, he has a deep connection and deep feelings for him.

26:34 Yeah, and he was like, look, that is, and he has said this before. That is my friend. Like if you didn't, if you don't understand the depth of feeling that he has for Jamie as a friend, just as a friend, let's take all the other stuff out of it. Just as a friend. This man married his wife, a rebel, in order to keep her from being killed and told you that that was the that was the the most bidding tribute he could give to his friend was to save the wife that he loved so much. Dude, read the room. But again, William is young, he's naive. He, he has a very limited worldview about all these types of things because he's grown up sheltered, He's grown up privileged.

27:27 So he's got to come out of that. And I, I think this situation and then now the situation with Jane, because while he was off being kidnapped and, and, you know, kept prisoner, Jane has gotten in trouble because one of the soldiers who recognized her from the brothel, saw her in the camp, realized that she was the reason that Harkness is dead and arrested her and took her for whatever they're going to do. I don't know if they're going to do a trial, but you know, when Fanny comes to him and tells him what happens, she asks the question. She's like, are they going to hang her? And William is like, oh, shit, no, they're not going to hang her. But I mean, they very well could. She killed, she killed an officer. Very.

28:12 Much so again, that's going to be something that is going to challenge William's viewpoint because I know well, did you, because did you watch the the promo for the next episode? No, I have not. OK, so I did see a picture though. So would you see a picture of? Just her in the bed and Lord John Gray sitting there and Jamie behind him, I think it was. Oh, Claire. OK, Yeah, OK. No. So that was. That's the only the only patient. OK, so I think that was because it was in the article or?

28:55 Something OK, so I'll just say this is not really spoilery. William does go to Lord John and says, hey, I need your help. So I'm guessing he's going to go to his father to see if he can help get Jane out because of course Lord John is a decorator officer. He kind of has some pull, but I think what's going to happen with that is William is going to be reminded of his viewpoints towards being privileged and the people who are quote UN quote beneath him. Because I don't think Lord John is going to help because of what the situation is. She, one, she's a whore.

29:38 Two, she committed murder, cold blooded murder. You know, even though she was justified in our eyes, in the British Army's eyes, she's not because how dare you kill a man for trying to do what he paid for? That's the way they're going to look at it and. Yeah, they are. I think Lord John is probably at this point going to be thinking about their reputation like, OK, so are we really going to try to challenge the British Army over quote again, a whore? And I don't think I don't think it would be Lord John not wanting to help just because of that. But he is the he is the one in all of this that has to think about appearances.

30:27 He has to think about the optics. And just like when he went to talk to his nephew and Mercy and he told them why they couldn't get married and he gave his reasonings to Claire, he has to think about the way certain things will look. Of course, you know, he kind of threw that to the side with his whole marriage to Claire. But maybe that situation as well, including the consequences of it with what happened with Jamie, is making him think like, OK, you know what? No, we got to be on the straight and narrow with this. This is how we need to react. This is what we need to do. So I think William is going to find out in a very harsh way that having those kind of principles is not, again, it's it's not a black and white thing. There are those Shades of Grey.

31:17 And he's going to have to, I think, either figure out something else or he's going to have to go to maybe Ian or maybe even Jamie, because Jamie and Ian are the two people who will probably be like, oh, she's in trouble, you care about her. OK, let's go. And they'll they'll probably do it without hesitation. They won't ask questions. They won't care that she's a whore or if she was a lady of the they, they wouldn't care. All they're going to care about is William cares about her. She needs to be rescued. OK, let's go. Yeah, So do she's important, right? So he's about to have his world challenged in in quite a few ways.

31:58 And let's just hope it has the results that that we need. We need him to rescue Jane and bring her back to her sister. We need him to kind of rearrange his thoughts or kind of just just open his mind a little bit and say, you know what, maybe this guy is not as bad as I think because. Right, because. He's all about it. You. You loved him. Once right and it's all the things that you were raised that a man should be. That's why this understanding that things is like a never situation or it's either this way or that way, just the circumstances of and it was nothing wrong with your mom or what happened like the circumstance of your birth. That's what they needed to do and they did the right thing. And no, he shouldn't have told you. Maybe later in life, but not growing up because that could have changed things.

32:54 You could have been in danger. So just understand they did what was right and they loved you. Everyone loved you. Some people don't get that. Yeah, Jane is she's loving her sister, but they didn't have that. So, dude, get yourself together. It's all right. He he he has time. We hope. 'Cause we don't, 'cause we don't know what the we don't know what the time frame is like. We don't know how long it takes to get from the British camp to where they were holding him and how long it took to get back. We don't know how long Jane has been gone. So it's just kind of he has time, but he really doesn't he he is racing against the clock now. Because if if especially with the way that they're going to look at her as someone who is not a noteworthy person killing a British officer, they're going to look to make an example of her.

33:51 You know, especially if you have someone who's like like, we don't even know who she's been taken to. But if you have like Captain Richardson and we already know what Captain Richardson is and what he's trying to do, if he realizes that this is someone that William Kill cares for, and then he finds out that William is not in fact dead at this point, he may use Jane, kill Jane just to try to get that advantage against William and Lord John, Greg again. And that is something we just, we really don't need her to be made upon. She's gone through enough in her life. So I hope they rescue her really soon and we can look, we need Claire to to get well, we need Jane to be rescued, and we need Jamie and Lord John to just kiss and make up and be done with it. Yeah, no shit going on with right? So let's move on.

34:58 I want a Roger and Buck show. I want to see them in a spin off or something. They can I I don't care when I say I love this bromance. I love it. I. But because it's like he's saying, like, you're my son, you know? Like, aren't you all my sons? Like right, right. And and isn't it? But it is true. I mean, just I'm not going to be able to get it back to my other son. But you are my son that I'm currently with who didn't help my other son. And I'm here for this. Yeah, but I'm here to help.

35:42 I thought that was like the best thing ever, though, when he said that. I loved it. I loved it. I was just like. Can we? Keep. But. But I did feel him when he was like, well, you could have told me. You got to say something to your parent. Yeah, your dad maybe. I want to say something about mom and dad too. I'm like, dude, that wasn't the time it. It wasn't, and they were. Hooking up. Question. He was like, so your dad's a traveler, you're a traveler, your son's a traveler. I'm a traveler. He was like, so do you think my parents are travelers? And Roger was like, oh, so we're about to have that conversation. Not your dad. I don't know about your dad, but your mom is but your Mama. And he was like. Well, who's my mom? Yeah, 'cause when Roger was looking at him, he was like, oh, come on now, it can't be any worse than you telling me the year I died, right Then when he finds out it's gay. Listen, and Dougal, I will say this, I'm very glad of the reaction that he had because he was like, you let me sit there and talk to her like an ignorant fool. Because in the books it's a little more different because of course in the books, you know, you spend a little bit more time with the characters because we don't have the constraints of trying to fit everything in a one hour show. So there's a lot of interactions and background that we have not seen on the show, not just with Buck and any of the characters, but just in general.

37:14 So in the books, there is a little bit of a flirtation between Galis and Buck. And it's it's weird because of course, Davis is a type. She flirts with any attractive man she sees. Buck, of course, is flirting with her because he doesn't know that this is his mother. And Rodgers just kind of suddenly trying to tell him, no, you don't want to mess with that. You don't want to mess with that. And yes, he tells, he tells Buck about her history first, thinking that's enough to deter him. But there is like, Buck has an attraction to her and he can't figure it out. And it's just kind of it comes across in the book like he might have a sexual attraction towards her, but of course he doesn't know that's his mother.

38:00 So it would be weird to him to do that. So when the conversation finally comes out and he learns that that's his mother, there is a bit of a push and pull between Buck because he knows now in his head that gave us is his mom, but his body is still thinking about her in another way. And so I don't know how they're gonna do it in the show, but in the books, he and Roger, at some point, they go their separate ways. Roger goes to continue on his search, but Buck decides to stay where he is because he if if I read correctly there, there's someone else who comes into play here in the stories. I don't know if they're going to bring them in the show, so I'm not going to spoil it, but this person is in a kind of sort of relationship with Galas, but he kind of gets pushed to the side because she also has an interesting book. So it comes across in the books is very kind of incestuous, kind of weird.

39:14 You don't know if they actually hooked up, but the implication is there that they might. And I was just kind of like, this is going to be so squeaky if they do it on screen. So the fact that he. Had the kind of reaction that he had. I'm hoping they don't go in that direction because that would make me lose any kind of respect that I've gained for Buck at this time. Like, OK, I understand. She's an attractive woman, you can say. She has, but yeah, she is. But she also has a strong aura about it too, which I can get. And the thing about it is it it'll be different if they set it up in the beginning when he was super attracted to her. And then now he's like, I'm so conflicting feelings and stuff.

39:58 But now they didn't really show that. So then for him to know and he wants to have a conversation with his parents. Don't turn it into something sexual now. Yeah, we don't need that. We're good, Yeah. And I and I also love what he told to Roger because, you know, one of the things that we always talk about is them coming back or them, you know, what are they doing that's actually changing the past or what's changing history or any of that? And Rodger is basically like, yeah, so I probably shouldn't have brought you with me because because of all the stuff. And Buck was like, but think about it. If your son hadn't have come back, if we hadn't been looking for your father, he said, think about it. My parents had not met before.

40:50 We were sitting in their house. If we hadn't come back, would they have ever met at all? Would I be here and in, you know, turn? Would you be here? Neither one of us would be here if we hadn't come back to this moment, if we hadn't have been sitting in her house at that moment, if you hadn't been looking for your father. So it's kind of like all these things have a cause and. Effect at but at the same. Time. We don't know, You know, I always make this joke. Which came first, the chicken or the egg? You know, did they come back in time because they were looking for Jim, or was Jeremiah sent back in time for this event, for this series of events to happen? It's just kind of like there's no way for you to know. But what you do know is that if Dougal and Galas had not met right then and right there, but may not have existed at all, they wouldn't have gotten together. And granted, even though Buck wasn't born until years later, because this is what night 1737 or 1739? Claire doesn't get there till 19401743. So it's still a few years off.

41:58 But that meeting that put them in each other's, you know, line of sight. So I think it's a very full circle moment for them. And again, like I said, I just, I love that. I love that dynamic. And then when we find out what happened with him and his his wife, again, I don't know if it's the way that they wrote the story or wrote the dialogue. But the way that he tells it at first, when you listen to it and he talks about her being heartbroken over finding out that the person that she loved was messing around with someone else.

42:41 And he goes to the barn and he comforts her. It almost comes across not very romantic. It comes across like, yeah, well, she was there and she, you know, she was worse for the drink. And I took it. That's the way it comes across like he took advantage of her. And I was like, oh, please don't do that because it sounds, it sounds very creepy. It sounds almost very rapey. And I don't want to think that this is the case. I think, I think in the books, again, going back to that, I think she was the aggressor in that particular situation because she was upset because she was pissed. And I think she was like, what if he can do that? Then I can do this.

43:22 I wish they had shown that a little bit more because in a way, it kind of the way he he told the story, it sounded like he was just kind of creeping. And then all of a sudden she's pregnant. I take her to America and it just sounds very. And and I realized this is normal for that period of time, but it's very controlling. It sounds. It does, yeah. But in the beginning I was feeling the same way. I'm saying, oh, crap, you are not going to say that you like rape this woman. I did. And but then when as he kept telling the story, I see where he was saying it was his fault. I think he was rude. It did come across later that he just knew who she really cared about and he took more advantage of the opportunity.

44:08 So like it sound like, yeah, he did go with go to her and he's been drinking, but she was like open to it because of the situation, even though he knew she really did care for that man. But hey, I care for her. So I'm gonna take take this opportunity, right. And he took the opportunity. And then when they came with the baby, he was like, oh, I still I really still want her even though I know truly that's not who she wants to be with. Yeah. And that's how he did her injustice. So, but in the beginning, though, in the slight beginning, coming across like, did you, are you about to say you raped her? Especially when you started off by saying I'm not a good man, right?

44:51 I was like, so? But then I realized, OK, you're saying you're not a good man because you knew she really loved someone else and you didn't let her be with that person. Right and not. Until now and then pregnant. You married her, and then because of your insecurity over who she loved, you took her away from her country, took her to North Carolina. And I, I thought it was so funny. And I love the fact that when he said after the troubles at Alamance and they both kind of tip their tip their drink, like, OK, yeah. Because those troubles were when he got Rodger hung. Right, And now you see really where that came from because he's always questioning, will she go off with another man or find the love of her life?

45:41 Like I'm a constant. I'm not good enough for her because that's I'm not who she wants to be with. So now Roger can see like, oh man, you just been living in basically fear and insecurity about what's going to happen. That's why he's like, I ain't going back. She probably with her her original Boo right now. Right after all these years and after three children, really. But, I mean, stranger things happens. Yeah. People do it. Yeah, and I guess, you know, like what Claire and Jamie been through, he said she'll be better off. You know, either she'll be she'll be with him or she'll be with her father. But either way it goes. I think he he felt like, OK, you know what?

46:23 That's a situation where I love her enough to let her go because I didn't, I I wasn't fair to her when we were together. And the fact that he's willing to risk seeing his children again, that's how you know how how much guilt he feels about that 'cause he was like, you know what, they might be living a better life. Because also, if he does go back, what can he say to her? How do you explain where you've been gone that long? And and again, not be taken for a witch. This, remember, this is in the times when they are trying people for witchcraft.

47:06 I mean, Claire and Gaylis, their trial is just a few years down the road. So it's just kind of one of those moments where now he needs to figure out his place in the world and where he belongs. And I really, really hope like I don't like I said he and Rodger, they go their separate ways in the book, but I really hope that they find a way to keep him in the store because I I just love his character. I love their dynamic. Like, I'm gonna be honest, I kind of like seeing Buck and Roger more than I like seeing Roger and Brianna right now. Yeah, saying that I want them to get back together, but it's just kind of, it's a different, I think it's a different vibe because with Roger and Brianna, you kind of, I almost want to say you don't really get to see Rodger be his own person because he's part of the unit.

48:03 It's kind of like Jamie and Claire, Jamie and Claire, Roger and Brianna, you always see them together. It's all about the kids. It's about, again, their shared trauma because they're afraid, you know, they're part of Fraser family. You, you can't be part of that family without some kind of drama. But it's always about that. And you never get to see Rodger kind of be himself, not in the way that we saw him before they came to the past. You know, Rodger was his own person. We got to see him teaching at Oxford. And you got to see a little bit of his personality. And, you know, so seeing him with Buck and also, you know, going through this journey of looking for Jim, finding his father, putting those missing pieces and questions into his mind, seeing the person that he is becoming as a part of it. And then not only that, but having this relationship with this relative who, you know, a few years ago, y'all would have killed each other.

49:01 It's just been so refreshing. And again, the dynamic between the two is wonderful. So I want to keep Buck. And I, I feel like Rodger needed it and Buck needed it, yeah. And that's how he end up where he was. Yeah. Oh, and that's the other thing because, OK, this is this is the thing I was trying to verbalize because we only see Roger now in terms of his relationship with the Frazier's because he has no other family. So it's nice to see him have family of his own for once with his father, even though that was so brief. But still, it gives him a sense of who he is.

49:42 And then a book. And I just, I want Rodger to have his own, you know, his own little slice. Of whatever, right? Which means after this I'm have some questions about book but OK move on. OK. But yeah, so OK. But while they're having these conversations they are at, they are back at Lila Brock because Rodger says he can think of only one other thing to do to kind of push his family together. Because again, Brianna does not know where Rodger is. Rodger knows where Brianna is, but he's still not 100% sure of where Jim is. Jim could still be there in 1739 or he could have never left 1980.

50:29 He has no way of knowing. But what he's decided to do was he writes a letter, and he puts it in that secret drawer that's in the desk in Lallybrot because that is the same desk that's still sitting there in the study. And, you know, he discovered the secret compartment when they first moved in. So he puts the letter there. At the same time, in the 1980s, Brianna has decided that she and the kids, for their own safety because Rob Cameron and his folks keep coming after them, she's decided that they need to go to Rodger. They need to go back to the past. And so she writes a letter to Rodger, and she gets ready to put it in that same drawer.

51:13 And when she does, she finds the letter addressed her. And she was like, oh, my God, what is this? And when she reads it, the first line is, dear Bree, something happened. I didn't, I didn't end up where I was supposed to be. And she looks at the date and it's 1739, and she was like, what the hell? So she reads Roger's letter where he gives her a brief synopsis. This is where I ended up, blah, blah, blah. I will find a way to put our family back together. Because again, he doesn't know where Jim is. He's not going to leave until he knows for sure. So at this point. But he should, but again, I think they have a knowledge and he should realize your son is not there and I go home and try again. I think he does, but at the.

51:57 Same, but it's the writing. I know it's the writing. I, I won't even say it's the writing. I I think for everything that's telling him that Jim is not there. Yes, and the reason he was there. If there is a small piece of him that thinks there is a possibility, I don't think he will leave without knowing for certain that Jim is not there, because what happens if he goes back home and he finds out Jim is not? There right, he has to go back, but he knows like they have said it several times. He even feels it like he was there for like really they realized the second reason 1 you put Buck's parents together and two, you really the most important thing was your dad and again, that's what you were thinking of.

52:46 Everyone been telling you weird people they have seen your son has nowhere been one of them. So at this point in time it is like we tell kids when there's emergency, there's a place to go to if you cannot get back home. Well, right now your home is the base. You need to get back home and regroup because you don't know. Or you can go through the stones again and think of your son and guess where you're going to end up. Home. Yeah, but you know he's not there. Yeah, because. But you end up thinking about it at the end. Is that loose liver that's no one has seen the extra kid. I understand that.

53:28 But I mean, if you think about parents and nowadays and present time, when you have parents who have children who have been kidnapped, who have been missing, kids who have run away, even when people are telling them, OK, the child is not here, the child is most likely dead or whatever, that small sliver of hope is enough. It's sliver of hope, but you also have a good feeling and they be going by the good feeling that their kid is still alive and their kid is there. But the but your good feeling is saying, man, we put ourselves at a different time to do this. Your good is telling you that Yes, but. And then there's evidence to back it up. That time because you are going through time, you can't afford to make a small mistake.

54:10 You can't, but you know you can get home. You are not where your son is. I know, but he you are nowhere near and you know it. It's not 100% for him. It's not but the sad part is. Well as a as ATV watcher I'm admit they have said it so many times I don't know in the book he had doubts. They are literally saying out loud like oh I know he is not here. I know, but. But you still there. But you still, I mean, it's just like, just like him going through the stones, he was focused on Jim, focused on Jim. He had to his dad. He had that one little sliver of thought about his dad and boom, he ended up somewhere he wasn't supposed to be or somewhere which was great.

54:53 Didn't think he was right, which was great. So you still go through the stones again and be like. My son, my son, my son, my son, my son. But we have to remember, Michelle, they don't know what effect the Stones will have on them going back and forth. No, no, no, listen, they don't know what effect going through the stones multiple times will have on their body. You saw what happened to Buck when they came back through. He had issues with his heart. So it's not like you can just be like, oh, I'm going to go back home to 1980 and oh, if he's not there, OK, I'm going to go back through. What happens if they go back to 1980? So then your next, so your next thing is maybe not go home, but again, think of your son and hopefully that places you where he is currently. Because guess what your wife is about to do What, what is your wife about to do?

55:45 What's your wife about to do? Oh, I, I know, but see. But see, here's the thing. She ready to go through the stones. But she doesn't have a split focus because she knows where her children. Are no. But what? That's not what I'm saying. If we all about that's taking risks, Jamie and Claire will take that risk. I understand going back and forth through the stones may cause issues, but if you're willing to take your kids back and forth through the stones, you can try to do it one more time when you know where you are isn't where your son is. Because what if he is in real danger in another location? I get you. I that's what I'm saying. The clues that you're, you're saying, the clues you keep saying, Oh my gosh, this is not the time we will put here for another reason. You can attempt to try again.

56:32 You may need to leave Buck because Buck may have some heart disease or something going on with him. But if your wife is willing to risk it to get to you, you can risk it to go home to check or not even go home to check. But in your heart say, my son is my home, my son, my son, my son. I cleared my issues with my dad, but my son, 'cause my son needs a dad. Where is my son? You could try. Yeah. And then leave her another letter. That's all I'm going to say, 'cause she's willing to take, she wouldn't take everybody with her and she'll know when she going. They just dress for the season.

57:14 They're like, OK, we're going to dress for this time. If we make it, we make it. If we don't, we don't baby all y'all just think of y'all dad but he messed up at. Least. She knows where he is because because he yeah, that's true. But she still got two other people who got brains of their own. So you got to make sure they focus. Well, but, but again, they don't. They don't. If all they're thinking about is Roger, they have no reason to think about anything else. No, I'm just saying they're sitting right here. They're focusing, not going to be split. But the risk, I'm just saying she's taking a huge risk, but we got to give him that. He could take a risk, too, OK, She taking 22 minors. Your children, you don't know how this is going to end up 'cause you really don't know how this will go. Yeah, so he can try.

58:15 That's all I'm saying. That's all I'm saying. Like I like I said, she knows where he is without a doubt. Her children, all they need to know is that they're looking for daddy they don't have. They don't have anything else that they need to focus on. Roger could touch the stone and be thinking about Jim. But if he decides to leave Buck back, is he going to have a split second where he thinks about? But well, then he has to. That's that's all his issues and working on it. But my whole, all I'm saying, Michelle, is it's not foolproof for Roger to just go back to. And it's not fool, and I'm sorry it's still not foolproof for them either.

58:55 But that is a risk she is willing to take to get their dad back. And that's all I'm saying about him. You know your son is not there. Your gut is telling you he's not there. So what is the plan 'cause I don't see a plan. I got her plan and her plan is she like you said, she is in beast mode. She didn't play a mode she like. We we doing this, damn the consequences. We gonna find this man. I feel like he got the same thing about his son. But I think when Bree is, she's also fleeing danger, so she she don't really have to. No, she she fleeing danger but but that girl I'm sorry she got cojones. I'm just saying I.

59:40 Know, I know, but you? Got the She doesn't hesitate and she's very good with her instincts and her gut feelings. And that's all I'm trying to say with Roger. We giving her like, oh, yeah, she know what she doing. But I feel like we should be able to say with him too is you know what, Sir? You do have that good feeling that your son's not there. You're going to maybe have to take a risk. That's all I'm saying that he should be able to be like, OK, I'm going to try it. And but maybe like, maybe no, maybe wait, let's keep looking. But they even both realized this may not be where he is. There's not two extra people. You're looking for a man and a child. Yeah, I know, I know.

1:00:23 Only a man showed up in that man to be in your day. Yeah, I, I, I'm just saying, I feel like Roger has a little bit more to risk. He does. He does so and I'm just thinking that's. Probably, but she has. To me, she has much more 'cause you have two extra little people with you. But she also has 2 little people who have a special ability they do together. And we don't want to end up in two different places because then I don't think they would be because of because of the the connection between Jim and Mandy, which you know, has had only been hinted at. But now we kind of see that it it. No, they have a connection. It's an actual, real thing.

1:01:06 Just like she tells them at the stone she was like, I need you guys to use your connection to find daddy. I think that probably gives her a little more confidence as far as OK, I can take this risk because she has. I'm trying to think of how we'd she has something steering her like she does, but she may not be. With those two will end up together. Hold on, let me finish. She has these two kids who are able to focus. All they need to focus on is Roger. They don't need to press on Bug. They don't need to focus on anything else. All they're focusing in on is Roger. So that probably gives her a little more confidence about what she's about to do. Roger only has his mind.

1:01:53 He doesn't have anything that's really steering him towards them. Yeah, he can think about Jim. But again, he could be, he could think that that split second of thought, that's what happened with him, with with him and his father. Because I think I mentioned in the books, this is not the first time he's encountered his father going through the stones. He went the first time he tried to go to the stones, through the stones to find Brianna. He ended up back in the stone circle with Fiona because she went to the stones with him. And he says that in that in between space, you know, before you go from one point to another. He.

1:02:35 Briefly thought of his dad and he saw his dad in the stones. So Roger's focus, I would just say, is not as certain and that would make me feel like Roger just needs to stay put and wait for them to come to him. But then then if you take, OK, so take even take the book out. If you just take the show, He's been doing good getting to the places he needed to be going through the stones. This was the one time, but I can understand this one time, 'cause you still was thinking about your son. You was thinking about your son not having a dad, like you didn't have one. And then you thought of your dad because you thought of right.

1:03:20 But I'm what I'm saying is now that you know, but now that you know, you know how to how to focus your mind. My thing is you exactly said it. Those two, yeah, they focus on their dad. But those are two brains plus another brain that's totally separate. The two connected. They're going to be together going through the stones. Mom may not even get to the same place. The two kids may get to. You don't know how she may switch her thoughts off at the same time. So one versus 3 to me, when Roger has done this before and he does actually know how to focus much better, he does have the.

1:04:01 Agree to disagree on that because. I mean, no, but honestly, he does. He knows what he you have to do to get to where you need to get to 'cause he's done this a few times. Yeah, he does. And I'm saying that he's not naive to this. Oh, no, I he knows what to do now. When if you don't do it. Yeah, I mean, but we've seen that before. But I'm just saying that you can still put that same energy that your wife is with two kids because they may not end up together. You know what I'm saying? They may the kids may end up like focus on their day when. Mandy runs through the stones before everybody else, right? You see what I'm saying? And then like, but guess who's going to be with her though? Who's going to end up at the same location she ends up with her brother because they're connected? Well, here's the thing.

1:04:49 Brianna will end up there too, because at this point now her focus is shifted to Mandy. So if Mandy's focus is on Roger, Brianna's focus is on Mandy. They're gonna end up at the same place. Right now. But we wouldn't know that if they just went lolly gallon through the First of all, we really do not know how these stones work. We'll think, well, they're minors. They're connected. The stones don't give a shit about who a minor or not. It worked probably during pregnancy. You understand what I'm saying? Because that's what? But you don't. We don't know really how it all works, and that's all I'm saying.

1:05:31 All I'm saying is she's taking the huge risk of taking her kids. Yeah, she is. But. You want your kids with you, but you got to hope and pray that they stay connected with you. And the Stones understand that minors need to stay with their parents. That's all you can work with. That's all she's working with. She has faith in what she's doing and she has a hope that it's going to work out right. Well, the other thing is she had planned on them, like probably holding hands and going through the stones. But like she said once she tells once she tells the kids I need you to focus on Daddy and she puts the stone in their hands. Like immediately she puts the stone in the hand and she tells Mandy, I need you to focus on Daddy.

1:06:15 As soon as she said that, Mandy turned and she was like Daddy and took off. So I don't know what it is about Mandy, but it seems like whatever that telepathy is the the. What is it? We call it the magnet or the whatever the the force is strong with that child. Yeah, it is. Because as soon as Brianna said, I need you to think about Daddy. Sure. She found her. Yeah. And she took off running through stones. Now I have another question. So to talk about this. So if Rodger went around and it's been like a year and still hadn't found him, what was he going to do? What was he going to do? He's going to have to go back through the. What? Yeah, he's going to go back through the yeah stones. That's all I was saying.

1:06:59 Like he could have just let's not wait around when you know what the answer is. Yeah, but now I need him to stay. Well, I mean, I, I think, I think he probably was gonna stay anyway, maybe just maybe just for a few more days. Because, I mean, you gotta, you gotta sit here and think, OK, if he puts the letter in the desk, he's obviously hoping that at some point she will see it. She couldn't have seen it before then because he didn't, because he didn't put the letter in the desk. So maybe at that point he would have thought, OK, let me stay a couple of days, let me stay a couple of weeks, see what happens, right, I got you can do is all you can do is guess and wait. And then if nothing happens, then he could probably. Have to make a decision?

1:07:53 Go. Home. Yeah, you have to make a decision. He has to make a decision. Yeah, but at least at this point, he can try to figure out like, OK, so one, if Jim is not here, he needs to figure out what's going to what they're going to do with Buck. Him and Buck are going to need to sit there and figure that out. Like, are you going to come back with me? Are you going to stay here? You've obviously decided not to go back to your time. So like for Buck, if if that's his mindset, if he already knows my wife is better off without me, whatever. Even if he tried to go back to 1778, I don't think he would make it because his focus is not there anymore. You know what? I'm right and he's more of this time period.

1:08:34 So yeah, he does. Well, yeah, Roger does not. So. No, Roger is too much like. A bug said I would just stay I think, but would be fine if he stayed. Yeah, but I don't want him to stay. I want him to well. I know, but he ain't gonna make it in the what? What's that current time? 1980s, yeah, 1980s. But here's the thing, if Brianna comes back with the kids and they find them too, thank you know you already know. You already know they are not staying in 1739. Not also where they gonna go. They go. So are they gonna go where I think they need to go? They they need to go back to Fraser's Ridge. Right, that's what I'm saying. Mama and the Daddy now.

1:09:15 That's what I'm saying. I don't know if they're gonna go to Philadelphia. They might go back to they might try to I, I don't, I don't know what they're gonna do, but I know then one, they can't go back to 1980, not right now, not while that he is on now, but. That has to be resolved before this series ends. So they have to. So they have to go back. So but then they have to go back again because I need Rihanna to to talk with William. So I'm all conflicted here. When? OK. So I will, I will say this as far as the books, because again, we still have one book that needs to come out. So we don't know what's going to happen with them back and forth. One of the things that they did cut from the show is the time is is like the the time between when Brianna makes the decision that she's going to go look for Rodger and the time that she actually leaves.

1:10:16 Because in the books, what she does is because Rob Cameron is actively trying to get after them. Like I said in the books, the, the shootout and everything that happens at her house is way more. There's, there's like a lot more chaos. Rob Cameron's face is plastered all over the news. So is Jeremiah's face because it's a big news story and all this other stuff. So what she actually does is she packs up Lollibrop and when they're, they're packing up the furniture and, and, you know, trying to make it so that the, the place is shuttered down, that's when she finds the letter in the books. She actually goes back to the States and she, they stay with Joe Abernathy and his wife.

1:11:04 And during that time she's making all she's, she's getting all her affairs settled. Like, OK, this is what to do with the house. This is what you do with the bank accounts. You know, she's doing all of this with Joe and then she's also testing the connection between the kids because she tells Joe about what's going on. And, and at this point, his wife is also aware of of what's going on with them being travelers and all this other stuff. So they actually do tests with the kids. They're like, OK, we're going to go down. We're going to go to downtown Boston. Me and me and Mandy will stay here. Jim, you and Uncle Joe, y'all get in the car and y'all are going to drive and we're going to see how far you guys can go before you stop feeling each other.

1:11:47 So they actually do this several times because when she gets ready to go through the stones, she wants to be sure that the kids, you know, like you said, can focus on each other and then focus on Rodger. Because there is also a little bit of a, you know, they know that they have some a little bit of a connection where they can feel their parents is just not as strong as the connection they can feel. With each other, they have for each other. So the all of that is is missing out of the show. They don't do it. So I don't know at this point. We know that, you know, we know that they're going back to the past wherever they end up going because we see them running through the stones at the end of this episode. Now, whether they go back to the future, I don't know.

1:12:29 But in the books, she has settled her affair so that if they don't come back. Everything is taken care of. Everything is taken care of, so there's a possibility they could go back. I mean, I, I just don't see at this point, I don't see why they would want to go back to the 1980s, except for the fact that yes, it has more modern conveniences. Medically speaking, it's a little bit safer and that sort of thing. But literally aside from Joe and Fiona, everybody that you love and care about is back in the 1700s. Your, your family, your parents, your support system.

1:13:09 I don't think if if I know this guy is trying to come after me. And again, we don't know if Rob Cameron is a time traveler. We don't know of anybody that he knows is a time traveler and can send, you know, send them after them. I would assume that Bree took the letter with her because if you think that there's a possibility of that, why would you leave that letter for someone to find? You know what I'm saying? So. So yeah, I just, I, I don't know if they go back to the 1980s, but I know that if she goes to 19, excuse me, 1739, and she finds Rodger. If they find Rodger, they need to head to the Ridge or they need to head to wherever Claire and Jamie are right now, which she probably knows because she probably went through and looked at the letters before she left.

1:14:01 It was like, OK, if this is, I can't remember what month it was on the thing. OK, let's say this is September 1980. So technically speaking, if I go back to look for my parents it should be around 1797. Yeah, you got to figure that out, Yeah. She'll look at the letters and be like, OK, so they were in Philadelphia in September 1797. So when I go through the stones, that's where I need to make my way. So there's a lot of. Sorry, Brianna got that good GPS on her gums. Kidding, she. But I mean, she, she really. Does she good though? That's I'm saying she's good, but she's been doing this too for a while herself. So she's really, she's good.

1:14:43 Yeah, so. I'm sorry, Frank taught her a lot. But I let me tell you when when Mandy took off running, all I heard was Casey in my head. Some of them kids. Need a whooping? Yeah, 'cause her. Parents, But if you are that magnet, if you are the strong one, 'cause remember, Jimmy was even hearing Mandy when she was an infant. You know, he was like, oh, she can hear the stone sing too, because she told me. Excuse me? What? She can't even talk? She's gonna. You don't like that applesauce? You put too much cinnamon in it. Right, right, right. So hopefully Mandy's radar, her daddy radar is strong enough to lead all of them through to where they need to be to to get to Roger, 'cause like I said, if Mandy is focused on Roger, if Jared, if Jimmy is focused on Mandy and Roger because he's like, OK, sister dad and Brianna is going to be focused on the kids, they're all going to end up in the same place.

1:15:42 I have no doubt about that. I don't think they would get separated because that that particular bond is too strong. I think even more so than than Brianna wanting to get to Rodger, Brianna's going to want to get to her kids. So yeah, I think in the end all will be fine, but we got to wait a whole nother damn week before we find out. Like really? Y'all already made us wait more than a year for the second-half of this season and then y'all are gonna make us have a break before the season finale. Oh, y'all are killing me. But it's OK, it's OK.

1:16:24 We just know Claire better be alive, which we already know she. Well, see, we already know that's that's and that's the that's the part I don't like because we know that she I know that because it's too soon. Now again, if you did this, if you did this 2 episodes towards the end, I'd be like Hanukkah, here it comes. But even with us knowing that she is alive, just like we knew Jamie wasn't dead, we still went through the emotions because. Yeah, I still was crying, but I'm just saying it, it hits differently. Yeah, you said. I'm saying it hits differently. Yeah, because when I when I when I saw what the episode title was written in my own heart's blood and like I said, I had that light bulb moment like, oh, that's what they meant because Jamie wrote that note in Claire's blood. I was like, OK, this is the episode where Claire gets shot. Even going in knowing this, when I say I stress watch this episode like this, the whole time I was just waiting for it to come.

1:17:28 And the fact that it came as early as it did in the episode because I really thought they would probably leave us on the cliffhanger of her getting shot. But instead we get her getting shot and then we get everything in the church afterwards all the way up until Denzel comes and starts prepping her for surgery. And I was just sitting there stress watching it, like I was feeling everything. And I was like, I know Claire's going to be OK, but still like in the books is touch and go. So I'm. Just and see Oh, and if if they did that as the season finale, then I wouldn't know either because next season could just be her touch and go and then finally everyone gets to say their goodbyes to her.

1:18:13 That would have been like. I would have been like. Yeah, I don't think, I don't think they're going to drag that out because like I said, I. Will be done. Now that we know what happened in this episode, I have a feeling I know what's going to happen in the next episode. And I think I know exactly where they're going to cut off. And it it would if they cut off where I think they would cut off, then I think we'll be good going into the final season. I think we'll be good. I think we'll be happy now. They don't do that. I have, I have no clue, but I have a feeling the next episode is going to be very emotional because we will be watching Claire go through her recovery and that's going to be kind of rough.

1:19:01 I do believe that we will see some kind of maybe not resolution, but we will see something happen with the Lord John, Jamie, William, Jane, Fanny. Trying to think, did I leave anybody else? I think we will see something happen with that group. I'm not sure if we're going to see a full-fledged reunion with Jamie and Lord John or the forgiveness part, but I can't. Again, I kind of feel like I I agree with you as. Far as. If this is what they had to deal with when they thought I was dead, then I need to be a little more forgiving. I need to be a little more understanding of what they did. Like I said, I don't think Jamie was really mad, mad about the part about them sleeping together. I think it was Lord John's attitude. Like, yeah, I had carnal knowledge of your wife and I don't, and I'm not sorry, but I think that was the. Yeah.

1:19:56 Because Lord John was trying to hurt Jamie's feelings. Because I think he was so pissed that he let all this emotion out. He let all of these feelings about Jamie out that he had previously kept very well under wraps, even with Claire. Like Claire knew. He was in love with Jamie, but they never had such a an explicit conversation about it. And I think the fact that he he allowed himself to spill all of that and put all of that out into the universe and then for Jamie to come back, like you can't take that back now. Every whatever Claire had thought before Jamie died, as far as what Lord John felt, she actually knows it now. She's confront like y'all had a physical. Act.

1:20:41 Due to the the enormity of your feelings for Jamie. So I think he was more pissed off about that and that's why he kind of why he kind of went at Jamie the way he did. Like, yeah, I did this and whatever 'cause I think he wanted Jamie to feel the same kind of anger he was feeling about Jamie's so-called demise and, and the events that happened after it. But hopefully they'll get that settled because y'all got y'all got way too many other things to deal with because now Jamie will have to deal with whatever consequences he's going to have because you violated the direct order from a commanding officer. I don't think they're going to look at that very lightly. George Washington might, but at the same time, you can't let someone do that and just kind of let them go without there being any consequence because if you do that, then your men start to question your authority.

1:21:42 So it's going to be interesting because again, we kind of know, we we know what happens between George Washington and General Lee and we know about that divide. So maybe people will look at Jamie and be like, well, I wouldn't listen to General Lee either. That bastard retreated. He's a coward. That is true. Or they might be like, well, he's still your commanding officer. You should have known what he told you to do, that sort of thing. So I, I think we'll see some kind of consequence about that. But yeah, I, I kind of my my biggest hope again, because all of those things are things that we know are going to have my biggest question and hope is that Brianna and the kids find Rodger and Buck.

1:22:32 And then I want them to go to Jamie and Claire. And I would like for Buck to stay with them because again, I like the fact that Rodger has a piece of his own family with him. And I mean, it wouldn't hurt anything to have Buck go, you know, back to that time with them. Yeah, he could. He could do that. He could even take on a different name if he doesn't want Morack to find him. But if they're in Philadelphia, she's in Scotland. She's not going to come looking for him, especially if she knows that he was in Scotland when he disappeared. She because I don't think she would have any reason to think that he would go back to the States. So she probably will thank him for dead.

1:23:15 He can stay with them in Philadelphia. I would not be mad at all. It would be great to have Rodger have a piece of his family. It would not hurt to have another big strapping gentleman be on, be on their side. Yeah. Just take Buck with you. It's not going to hurt. I mean, you guys kept Merta alive and brought him back and Merta died in. The That's true, that's true, that's true. We can do it. That's true. Yeah, that was true. So yeah, you have any final thoughts about this episode? I just, I just thought it was funny, 'cause I was like, Claire's gonna operate on herself, that's all. When I when she was.

1:24:03 Dozing off, I was like, no, I really want her to like, be like that tough woman and be like, I got this, I got this. OK. I need you to feel around. OK. Oh yeah. Claire is very human. And it was so funny 'cause when when you sent me that text, then you were like, oh, she about to operate on herself. I said, OK, so she's gotten through the part where where Claire got shot. Did it shock you that it was her? Did it shock you that it was her? No, I 'cause then at that point I was like, OK, I kind of saw a picture of that. I had thought that that was going to happen, but no, it didn't shock me, OK? OK, yeah, 'cause I was just kind of like the way that they let up into it with the conversation of her saying something feels different this time, Something feels different this time.

1:24:53 And Jamie was like, you can't mean death. She was like, no, not death. It's just something, something feels different. And it was literally because, OK, you going to be the one that's in dire peril this time and not Jamie. So it's it's always interesting to see, to see the the perspective change because we're so used to clear seeing Jamie endanger and Jamie being, you know, his life being put on the line. And Jamie ain't no telling how many times Jamie has been shot, maimed, whatever at this point. So to see it be clear, especially when we've only seen her like deadly sick one other time, and that was when Mabel Christie poisoned her.

1:25:38 It's just always interesting because you get to see her be strong and still be able to do stuff, but then you have to see her kind of be be a regular human. She can't be super clear this time. It's kind of hard to do that when you have a bullet in your liver. So yeah. Yeah. But OK. So we have one episode left for season 7, then Drought Lander begins again. I am hoping that when the season finale airs that we will get some information about Blood of My Blood, like a a release date or an estimated release date or that we will find out some information about season 8.

1:26:28 I really hope that they don't send us into Drought Lander with no information 'cause I will be so depressed because it's just this is going to be the last season. Yep, and we still don't know when we're getting a 10th book yet. However, Diana Gabaldon did say she will be releasing the title of the book sometime this year. So she releases the title of the book. That means that we're getting a little bit closer to a release date. So fingers crossed and I guess for now, that is it for our show.

1:27:12 You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.