Outlander S7E6 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #319

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Michelle and we are catching up with our Outlander episodes. We are talking about Outlander Season 7 Episode 6. Part 1. It's been a minute since we've discussed Outlander. Well, it's a podcast. We we did have a couple of panels at Dragon Con last weekend that were fun. And I have caught up on all the books and that makes watching the show now a little interesting because I see what they've pulled out and what they've kind of changed.

1:09 And I'm like, how are they about to finish this in, in the back half of season 7 and season 8? I have a lot of questions. Yeah, because they I do too. But Michelle has not read the books yet. Sorry, everyone. That's OK 'cause we, we gonna get it done before Season 8 starts, right? That's what we said. Wait, wait me, when is season 8 coming out? Probably not until 2026 at. This Oh yeah, I got time. Yeah, I I got time. I'm sorry. I'm like, oh, we still got to get Part 2. I have time. Yeah, we still have what it is probably about 70 something days till Droughtlanders over.

1:50 So yeah, November 22nd is when the second-half of Season 7 is coming back. Season 8 is, I think Katrina was on a press junket this weekend for her new movie that's coming out. And she said that she has about a month of filming left for Season 8 and then it's going for Lauren Lyle Marsley. She's already done. She already posted her goodbye to Marsley post. And I was like. And this is for season 8. Oh wow. So then season 8 can come out next year. Maybe, but I mean it, I don't know. I, I, I think I'm saying 2026 so that when we finally get the date and it, if it is 2026, I'm not so disappointed because. I'm you know, from drought Lander, it's going to be 2026. So we just yeah, even if we get if it's and. If they.

2:48 Say finished now. Then we'll just. There'll be a bonus. And we'll just be happy. But right. Now and it look it'll be a bonus. Yeah, I'm putting it in my mind 2026 right now, but that's a long time to wait because I mean, I didn't realize that it's been a year since the first part of season. 7 ended. I haven't. I didn't realize that either. I didn't. And it's, it's like these cable shows I'm I'm, I'm trying to stay involved, I'm trying to stay invested. There's no chance of me losing interest in Outlander.

3:29 But still y'all pushing the envelope a lot because it's a lot of time in between these two parts, which I understand they gave us extra episodes for season 7. Takes a lot longer to film, edit all of that stuff. And I'm just kind of like. Can can we? I know and it's it's hard to because they're ending it and the books are not finished and that caused me stress. So we're doing a little crossover here guys. If you didn't know anything about Game of Thrones. See that causes me stress because I need them to end it right? Even though the books are not done. Right now, I do know Diana Gabaldon has said on her Facebook page because someone asked about whether or not she has told them how she plans to end the books. And I think right now she doesn't even know for sure how she's ending the books.

4:36 I think one of the ladies on our panel last weekend stated that she has made mention once or twice that there may end up being an 11th book. We don't know. Oh my goodness. She said that she has given them some notes on things that happened in Book 10, and I'm assuming those are things that are relating to the show. Because like I said, there are certain things that up till this point, like we have William already at Fort Ticonderoga, we have the rebels who have already escaped, and Claire has gotten captured. So there are certain things in the books that should have happened at this point, but they've not mentioned those. Like one of the characters that we see now, he actually is, he's playing a dual role.

5:28 Like he's supposed to be another character that's mentioned in the books that has something to do with some another plot point. But I don't see how they're going to tie that in now because they didn't introduce the other character, the other version of the character he's playing. So it's just kind of like, I don't know, I think they're they're taking bits and pieces of storyline and I think they're going to keep some of the most important stuff like the Roger and Bree stuff. Of course, the stuff with William, because we see him a lot more in this episode as well. And I think we're going to start seeing more of him because in the later books, the story really heavily involves him. Like you see Claire's point of view and you had Jamie stuff, but William takes up a good part of the real estate in books 7-8 and 9:00. So and So what can happen is we can always have a spin off where we take care of William on the side, but what I need to happen at the end is for Claire and Jamie to die together. Like this is the notebook, OK.

6:38 And from that, and they're older, so then she can write as music books as she want. Because we don't know what happened from a certain point where they flash forward to them died in the bed. So some things could have happened in between. We don't know. That's in those, you know, book 10:00 and 11:00. But they die, they die together. 1 cannot exist without the other. Yeah, I do. I do feel like that, like. Right. They they die in each other's arms, yeah. Especially so the last three days, I think some someone mentioned, I think it was Lisa. Hi, Lisa. If you're listening, I think Lisa mentioned on the show panel at the time, I think there was like 83 days left in Droughtlander. And she said, you know what?

7:25 She said there would be exact number of days in Droughtlander as there are episodes of the show. So if you start watching from Season 1, episode 1 today and watch one episode per day, you will watch the show all the way up to November 22nd, which is when 7B premieres. It's like, oh, OK, I think I'm going to do that. And then I didn't do it for the first couple of days because post Dragon Con, I'm sitting here trying to, you know, get back, get back into the swing of things. So yesterday I finished yesterday, but Saturday, Sunday, yes. Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Actually, I watched all of Season 1.

8:09 Well, most of Season 1 I watched everything but the Wentworth prison stuff because no. I can't do that. I had to fast. So I've seen those scenes I think maybe twice or three times total, and I forgot how brutal they were. So it's like. I'm yeah it the. Start of it and that first assault, I was like, Oh no. No, I still I'm like to me it will be my 4th time and it's still every time is the same feeling so I don't need to watch it again. I get it. Fast forwarded, I get it. I was. Like. OK, that's for. OK, well, and I heard, I heard her say it before Procrastinator.

8:52 That doesn't work. OK, I need to wait for two weeks before Part 2 come out and try to cram me in. I'm not doing that kind of thing anymore because trying to read 3 Outlander books 3 weeks before Dragon Con. But you did it. I did it, but I have not done that kind of power reading in so long. And it was like Echo through the Echo in the Bone was kind of slow getting through written in my own heart's blood. I did that in one day and I don't know what it was about. That's like, there were a lot of moving pieces and there were a lot of fast moving pieces. So that book was a breeze.

9:35 Bees was a little bit more slow because you're still telling all these different stories. But she also is a very descriptive writer and there are some parts where I was just like, I don't need all this. I don't need all this detail. Just tell me what's going on with this person, this person. But I really did enjoy reading the books. And so now I'm sitting there going through the website and going through everything like, oh, we're the daily lines for book 10. Like I need, I feel like I, I feel like I'm like going through withdraw. I feel like a junkie. I need some more book 10 stuff. I need more like there's certain characters and certain things. I'm just like. To see it.

10:16 And I'm not getting enough of it in the show at this point. But we're still early. We're still, we're still in the first part of Season 7. Hopefully stuff will start picking up with certain things November 22nd once we get the episodes back. OK, yes. OK, that's. OK, so OK, so where we're at Episode 6 episode. Six, we're not going to order cause I am playing in the background and I have some, I got some stuff I need to say. We need to talk about your your screen name and this time travelers guy and how. Doggone how do you write a book, write a journal for your children? I get it, you want them to understand the insurance and outs of time travel.

11:09 You want to write it down. How are you not paying attention to what you are doing with this book to the point where this creepy ass Rob Cameron gets his hand on it? Yeah, yeah. But I get it. I get it. It's frustrating because. There's so much information he's putting in the in this journal because it's for Jim and it's for Mandy. It's for them to understand where they come from, the experiences that they may go through if they decide to go back, whatever the case may be, just to understand more of who they are. Mandy's not going to remember anything 'cause she was a baby when she came through the stones, But Jim remembers a lot. Yeah, they still need to ask me about the the treasure, but OK, I'll leave that alone.

12:00 I don't know if they do 'cause he might write it down somewhere. And then, yeah. And then it'd be gone. But I mean, even in this episode you have Roger going to the school to teach Gaelic. First of all, the teacher who sat there and did Jimmy's ear because he cussed at her and Gaelic, I was like, OK, first of all, this was definitely the 80s. Because you can't do that shit now. No, can't touch him. Can't touch him. Can't touch him. Rodger goes into the school to teach, you know, to teach a class on the Gaelic because it's something that the current inhabitants of Scotland have been trying to kind of like, you know, push out of the way and not have their kids growing up knowing their language, knowing their history. Rodger goes to the school.

12:51 OK, fine. While you're sitting there writing your book and you're talking with your wife, you move the book over here to your stack of hymnals and you go do something on the shelf. And then you're reminded, oh, you're running late. Hey, can you pack my bag? Put that stuff in? Like, she just grabs the stack, which again, I understand she didn't know. But then when you were getting ready to pass these hymnals out, Roger, did you not feel that hardcover book? Yeah. In the midst of all of these thin hymnals you had. And you didn't think, huh? Why is that so heavy? Like then for Rob Cameron of all people to get this thing and come up to Roger, like, oh, you writing a little bit of the science fiction I like that was like something there's something I write about the dude.

13:47 No, there's something not at all right about him. But I almost, it almost feels like, do you think maybe you already knew something? I kind of wondered that because they when when they were having a conversation and he said something to Roger about loving the class and he was like, Oh, yeah, I love all the old stuff. I don't know if maybe that's just me being ultra perceptive or maybe it's because I mean, because I know a little bit about what happens, of course, because I read the books. But even in the books, it's not really clear that he knows something, knows something.

14:34 It's just that he's very weird. Like in this episode when he's having the conversation with Rodger and he's, you know, they're talking about Brianna and Rogers. Basically just let him know, look, I know you want them fuckers that was messing with my wife and Rob is coming off all night. So yes, she's the best supervisor we've ever had. And he starts telling his sob story about his sister being a widow and he's, you know, taking care of Bobby for her. And you know this he starts, they start having a conversation about the home cooked meal. He basically invites himself over like, oh, we should do that one day. I would love home cooked meal. I was like, does that. And then again I had to remember this is in the 80s. People did that all the time.

15:20 You had. You had. The kind of thing where you went to someone's, you know, you went to someone's house unannounced without calling, just knocked on the door. Hey, how you I have to remember that that's the time that they're in because you definitely don't do that now. No, but I I, I still think maybe he does like old things and then research. He came across like someone writing about that and then bam, he sees this book, right? Or he already like target them. It just feels a little funny. It does it, and I don't know if I feel like it's that he knows, because in this conversation he almost feels like he's being a little flirty with Roger.

16:12 So sick. Because he's just being slimy and he's trying to ease his weight into a relationship, which is why I feel like he knows something or that was a, a target. That's why I feel that way. It wasn't like he was kind of like, hey, nice to meet you. And then later sees the book reading and be like, oh, hey, can I come over for dinner type of thing. But he started off the relationship like being close into his space and everything so. But again, 80s that nobody cared about personal space back then. It was just that's that's kind of how you were. You were in someone's face talking. And yeah, I guess he just, he's. The weird guy.

16:54 He it is, and it's something about the it's something about his mannerisms. Because. He seems, he seems overly aggressive, but also not so much so it's, it's like a weird thing he does and it just, it makes you feel uncomfortable, like, oh, I don't know if I want this man around my child. I don't know if I want this man around, you know, it's just I, I don't know, there there's something, there's something not quite right about this man. And again, like I said, I know, I know for Roger, it was a, it was a, it was a mistake, you know, putting the book in there, but you're coming from the past, you are putting this stuff down on paper. And I think we had this conversation, if not on this podcast, I think we've had it like in person talking or even during the panels last week.

17:55 It's like at a certain point, you have to be more mindful of the things that you are doing because even though, yes, you're doing this in the comfort of your own home, you're doing it and you know, around people who already know this information, mistakes happen, carelessness happens. And I think they've probably just gotten too comfortable because why would you have that? Again, I know it was an accident it getting into the hymnals, but there was something that should have told you that something wasn't right when you, like I said, when you picked it up and told Jim to pass it out, something should have told you something that feels like a book in between these sheets of papers.

18:42 I mean, we've all taken elementary school music. We know how thin those the sheet was a kid. But I'm and but I the only reason why I'm not trashing him because I've done that a few times having stuff within other paperwork and be like that was meant to be there. However, again and then they pass it out in the class. That's why it's so confusing like you should have. You should be able to see that he reading your book. Right, if you're paying attention. So I don't know. I just, I just. It's not like he it's a class class class full. Right. I mean, there's not a lot of people there, but I, I just feel like, I feel like they're getting too comfortable. You know, it's one thing I think when you're in the past and you're from the future, because you're always being mindful of what you're saying, what you're doing to make sure people don't know that you're.

19:42 Different in that sense. And when you're reading it, it doesn't sound like a fiction, right, 'cause that's the problem, 'cause you can't even say, oh, me and my kids are making up. We're creating this time travel. They really in the time travel. Right, 'cause you're really saying your grandmother, your grandfather, your granddaddy, you know, and it's, it's very oddly specific as far as you know, the thing with the Ley lines and the stones and like it's very, very specific so. I I think them being in the present has made them a little bit careless because they're in their own time now. They don't have to have certain things except for, of course, talking about the past, you know, Rodger talking about where he picked up a lot of his Gaelic and, you know, having to talk about his father-in-law.

20:39 And I think the idea is that they're telling everybody, you know, of course, the Breeze parents are dead. So it's just they're walking a very thin rope. And I need them to be more careful because again, this Rob camera don't seem like he on the up and up. With. That and then on top of all of this, now you have a visitor at the end of the episode, we find out who this knuckle of it is, and it's the same motherfucker that tried to hang Roger or getting Roger hang and not even try. It's the same motherfucker that had Rodger Hayne. Rodger, Hayne. Which is his 5-6 times great grandfather.

21:20 I was like, wait, how in the world? But then again, like we talked about it last weekend, he's gave us his son. So it it, it's coming down on that, you know, on that, that side of the family, but it's like, oh, y'all are about to have some issues. Now, right, Which that's that's the part that's amazing that I want her to write more about later. What about about Buck coming through? Just the, just like how it works, there's a time travel and then it just being, Yep, being passed on, right?

22:04 Because of course Rodger has it. He can do it. Jim Mandy and Brianna Clear. But you know, so I know that she does, she does describe it from different points of view in the book. Like, we hear Buck's version of what happened and we, I think, you know, you get him telling the tale of how he ended up there, which I'm sure is going to be weird for him because at least with Rodger and Bree, when they went back, they did that intentionally. They knew what they were going to do because they knew it had been done before, because they had experience.

22:47 Can you imagine being someone from the 1700s who probably has no earthly idea that this type of thing exists and you find yourself in the 1980s? Like going backwards, I think will be easier because we have history, we have history books. We, we can do our research, we can read about the times. And you know, that's kind of what Claire and Brianna have done the whole time that they were there. They, they knew certain things that were going to happen. They knew certain inventions, like, OK, this will be invented here. So but we may be able to do this over here. You know, they, they walk the fine Rd. they walked the fine line, but they were as careful as they could be with people who were trying to do, you know, innovative stuff in the 1700s. But to go forward and you have no information about what you're walking into.

23:46 You have no way of knowing what's coming for you, what to expect. Like, I can't even imagine what this man is going through. And then to see the person that you thought you had hung and that's the person who greets you. I'm I'm having a feeling that he's a little, he's a little spooked. Right now, right. And the and the thing about it is it's like again, how does it work? Like you didn't he didn't go back, he went forward. So then it's even with them going forward too, cause to save the baby Manny. But like, what do they think?

24:30 Like you have to think and then shall it be? Because at that point, what was he thinking about? Was he still thinking about Roger and his wife? And was there even something going on between them that pushed them forward? Like what type? You know, you understand what I'm saying, 'cause he couldn't went at any time, but he went where Roger is. It's just kind of, that's what's interesting. And I don't want it to be used as just like a plot device. But to me, it has to be like something that pulls them back and forth 'cause I may touch the stones, Ding, and I'm gonna go back and I go forward. If you go back to the beginning of the story, how did Claire end up in the 1700s?

25:11 Because she wasn't thinking about anybody in particular. You know, but we already know, OK, in our minds and in our hearts, we knew that she needed to go back because she was tired to Jamie. That's why she went back. She was, she was questioning her love and wanting a love and that's what took her there 'cause she was listening. Because she was happy with. Frank, was she really? She was content. And happy OK, if you yes, OK. You know, I'm saying there's a difference with that passionate love she had, the content love that would have carried her on and they actually would have been happy if she didn't go back, you know what I'm saying? They would had each other, they would have made each other happy.

25:56 She would have went to medical school, but then she had that passionate love. Yeah. Or. You know what? I can't breathe, love. Miss Miss Misses Graham reading her lines, her palm lines, and saying, hey, I see two marriages here that could have. Been right and like, who would I be married to? Like would it be a different type of love? And that sent her to Jamie could get that yeah, I get. I give it. Yeah. But here I don't get how he ended up in future. But that's neither here nor there. He's he's, he's there. We may find that out, we'll see. But I mean. Are you telling me we're going to find that out? Hint. Hint. Or you. Don't I'm, I'm talking, I'm talking purely in the show now, because again, there's so much that they left out from the books that I don't know where they're going to go with the story because.

26:46 OK, but in the books do we find out why? Yes, that's why I said. You that's why I said you need to read because. No, I'm going to ask you when we're done. I just want to know that part. You know how I like how the science work? I must. I'm still a scientist at heart. I like how the science work. I need to know. Well, OK, so we don't find out. I won't say we find out the science, but we do find out kind of what was going on in his mind and what. Which will lend to how he travels, which to me is the science of it. So that's what I need, OK, That's what I don't. Me convince her she don't need spoilers if. She That's not a major spoiler. She.

27:27 Needs to read the book, no? Yeah, it is. But he was thinking, yeah, that that I don't think he's he's important. He ain't the most important character for me. I'll tell you later. I'll tell you later, but and again, I I just realized that we are talking about this like we already know who he is, but they don't actually reveal who he is until the next episode. But if you look at the credits, I think it tells you who he is. So it. Does. And I was like, why did they recast? They kind of kept Graham Mctavish in that role because he was he was the one who actually had Rodger hung.

28:09 But they have cast him for the second part of Season 7, I think, or he's in Season 8. So I know that we're going to be doing some flashback stuff. So I was like, OK, if we're getting him back in flashbacks, then I'm good with him not being. But I think it would have been interesting to have him. But yeah, so. So now Rodger has a stranger who who is showing up at his house. The stranger in my. House. And then he's dealing with the Rob Cameron weirdness, which is, yeah, again, that dude creeps me out, but I already know we'll find out more about him in the next episode, so we're not going to waste a lot of time with him. He's creepy.

28:57 I'm just going to say that. Yeah, he is. And I'm going to say something that's controversial right now. Really. Sometimes I do get tired of Jamie and Claire, OK? That's a fairpoint. I I do OK y'all love Conker's all. I'm just getting tired of it, OK? That, I mean, it's a, it's a fairpoint. I mean, they go through a lot of drama. They do, and I need death. 50 million times, which there is a thing in the book, I will say this, there is a thing in the book where I think like a fortune teller or something when Jamie was young told him you will basically he has he has the lives like a cat. She basically told him he will die nine times before his final death before his final death.

29:50 So it's like a big thing. In the building. Right. Well, in the books they actually he's like, yeah, is this time and this time and this time and this time. No, that time doesn't count. OK, then it's all so they do it. It is like a running thread in the books. I. Don't think that's controversial. I do think people would disagree with you because I know that there are a lot of people who actually don't like the Rodger and Brianna dynamic. Dynamic which I don't understand because. People, I'm gonna be honest with you on that one. But even though I said I get tired of Jamie and Claire, no, I really absolutely love them and I want everyone to have a love like them.

30:32 But I don't see it for with with Roger and Bran. No, I don't. They don't. OK. Their love is fine. But it's not. Like it's, it's not it's it's not that they're OK, OK, they're they're What about Marsley? And Fergus, because we are getting them. I love that love. I do love that love. We are getting them back and I'm like, OK, Because I will say that has been the most disappointing thing for me for Season 7 was that we weren't getting any Marsley and Ferguson. There's a lot that happens with Marsley and Ferguson in the books. I don't know how much of that they're going to bring to the show because if I'm not mistaken, I think season 8 only has like 8 episodes. It's a very short season.

31:23 So I'm like, first of all, you are discounting a whole book that, yeah, you know, ends the series and then you're giving us a short and 8th season. And like I said, there's a shit ton of stuff that they have. Now. And I, I feel like I already know based on what I've read, I kind of know what they're going to cut out. Some of it I'm OK with and some of it I'm like, no, I really don't need them to cut. Well, I won't say anything with William, but there's a lot that happens with William that I really want to see it now. I already have a feeling one of his main storylines is not going to make it, but I really need to see more of him because I'm actually liking the portrayal of his character. Like, you have it.

32:09 You have this guy who is very much a soldier, very much loyal to his people, his country. And then you see him in this episode, he comes across Claire remembers, Claire realizes that she's a rebel but still does what he can to, you know, prioritize what she's asking for as a prisoner. You know, she's trying to get food for the other prisoners. She's trying to get medical supplies. And he's doing his best to help her, not knowing that she, I guess, in for all intents and purposes, is his stepmother. But she, he remembers her enough from the visit to Fraser's Ridge where she saved Lord John from his measles outbreak to say, OK, you know what? I'm going to do what I need to do for her. And then you have him coming across Ian, who, again, he does not realize he's his cousin, but it's somebody who he has had a pleasant interaction with Ian, helped save his life. But now you realize until that this person that you've come to respect is also a rebel.

33:21 And now you're having to kind of straddle the fence because your duty tells you these are rebels, They should be prisoners. But when the fighting starts breaking out at Fort Ticonderoga because Jamie is trying to get Claire out. So he's like, causing a distraction. You have William, like, I guess I can let you go. I mean, Ian also says, hey, you owe me a life. Yeah. So I'm, it's my under taking her with me. But still this kind of like the the struggle that you're going to see with William as a loyal British subject, as a loyal soldier, and then having these people who he's had experience with in his life and trying to reconcile the fact that these good people are rebels, you know, because this time, you know, the way he's been talking, we're going to, we're going to stamp out the rebel, you know, the rebellion. These people are blah, blah, blah stuff. He was saying to Brianna when he met her. And now it's like, oh, wait, I actually know some of these people.

34:27 And these people are good people. They're decent people. I'm very curious to see how that journey is going to play out on screen. So I need more William, but I don't have a lot of time to do it with. No, you, you don't. 8 episodes in the back half of this 7th season and then maybe 8 episodes for season 8. And that's just a guess, it could be as low as 6. I hope not because you know how I feel about 6 episode. Seasons, but yeah, 'cause it's the stuff gets rushed but. And this story is so like these books are 900 something page books. You can't say a lot of stuff. There are characters that we should have been introduced to by now.

35:11 They have not even made an appearance. So again, I feel like those those storylines have been scrubbed, which is fine as long as these storylines move forward in a way that makes sense. It's going to be really interesting to see how they do this, this stuff with Brianna and Roger and what's going on there. Because Rob Cameron, in the books, you, I'm trying to think who is a character? Tell us how you really feel he's. Nicholas from The Walking. Dead. Yes. He's one of those characters where you read him and the whole time you're reading, you wish you could slip your fingers through the parade, through the pages of the book and just throttle him because he gets more and more annoying and more and more weird and then shit hits the fat and it's just kind of like. So I hope they keep all of that show because the characters just and it, I mean, honestly, that story and where it leads, it is a good distraction from Jamie and Claire. Right.

36:29 I mean, and and again, I love them, but he can't get tiring that, you know, we shall always overcome. Yeah, I get kidnapped and you're going to find me no matter what. So now at the point when you get into a relationship, everyone, we got to have a checklist. OK, All right, So something happens to me. Are you willing to, you know, go through the trenches, kill some, kill some people to get to me and to save my life? If that's a no, we have a problem. Bye bye. OK, can you weather the storm when a girl pretend to have my baby? Can you weather the?

37:14 Storm. Can you weather the storm when you have to go? Back murder of saying girl. That baby, can you weather storm when you have to go back to your original timeline? Live with, live with a partner? Did you clearly want to close your eyes and pretend that you with your previous partner? Yep, can do all you can to get back. And that's not even to talk about all the stuff that went on in Season 1. Correct. Even there's times when you actually did want to pull a gun out and kill them yourself. Yeah. But you didn't. Yeah. Then at the end of the evening, every episode, we have the end of the evening bed talk.

37:57 I love you. I love you too. To the end. That's why they need to just die together. I, I mean, I, I'm not going to say you're wrong. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but you know. A man that will you get attacked, assaulted. He didn't even ask questions. He killed, everybody around killed. Them all slanga. You're not condoning this in real life. We're just saying. We're just saying. But I mean, if you think about it back then, especially back then 1700s, I mean, we see this from when Claire gets taken. They don't even have proper judges right now because of everything that's going on with the war, with the rebellion, people getting tarred and feathered. I mean, we saw.

38:48 And even with, like, the governor having to flee, you know, 'cause they were chasing after him and everything, Yeah, it's like, unfortunately, back then, people sometimes had to meet out their own justice. Right, they did. Nothing wrong with that, but they love perseveres. That's all I have. I have to say it it, it perseveres. We should say sometimes you want to see some drama with with just drama, you just want to see a drama. You want the Outlander soap opera. No, they, they just love. Just persevere. They should just say, you know what I mean? At this point, if something happened to me, I'd be like, I'm not concerned.

39:30 He'll be here in a week. Right. And just like the whole thing, I, I think it was in this season or it may have been the last. No, it was this season. I think when Jamie said he had the the gemstone, right when he was trying to tell Claire she could go with Bree and Rodger. Yeah, he had, he had the, he had the gemstone and he was like, just in case you wanted to go, he was like, you know, I I don't want to live without you, but if you need to go with that one, threw that thing out the window, like, excuse me, I'm not going anywhere. Yeah, like we're not. What? What? What point would that be? None.

40:12 And then also too, he keeps telling her if something happens to me, I want you to go back through the stones. For what? Well, I I guess now because. OK, now, I mean, come on, are they to go back to? Yeah, see your see your kid and her grandkids. I get that. Because if Jamie is not there, I mean, Claire has adapted enough that I think she could probably live on her own. But Claire still got that mouth. She still got that 20. Yeah, she might as well go. She might as well go and and and, you know, babysit her grandkids. That's I'm just saying she don't need to stay, right. But they have lived a life.

40:54 I feel like they have lived two different lives like 2 complete different lives and they with their lives was apart right Their lives that was apart and then their lives together and they were full lives. So them dying earlier together, it just will be well-rounded. But you know sometimes just get sick and like OK I know you love her, I know you love him. I understand. I get it. I mean, he got Agps on her. Like you find her no matter what. You find him no matter what I have. Theories about that, but it's book related, so I have to tell you about that later. Again, they tethered together in this world.

41:37 I mean, I, I kind of feel like it has to be that way because. Yeah, I do. I, I, I I'm making fun. But they are tethered together. I think that's why she ended up with him. Right. But because other than that, how do you explain? Again, we're going back to the Season 1, Episode 1. How do you explain the ghost? Because that was very clearly a young Jamie. That was Jamie with his curls. That was Jamie with the beret, that was Jamie with the the tartan and the kill, you know, and we don't really see that Jamie anymore. But I mean, he was very, it was very clearly the young version of him. I have a theory. I kind of wonder if maybe like, you know, how he dreams about the children.

42:21 That's what I was about to say. That's my theory. Also, if I remember correctly, a few seasons ago, he asked Claire about Bree. He asked her if she had a birthmark in a specific place. And Claire was like, yes, she does. And he said I had a dream about her. So I'm wondering if, and and again, I don't know how it is because it's kind of one of those things like what came first, the chicken or the egg? Did Jamie dream of Claire and then Claire ended up going back? Or was Claire always destined to go back? And that is one of those things where I don't we probably find out until the bad book. You won't, and I feel like it's a dream, but then he's projected himself to where he's dreaming and it's possible because we've given in.

43:16 So it was also it was Halloween, remember? And, and where the there's a thin line, right? Yeah. The, the my thing is, it's time travel. So we, we can't discount anything. Yeah, but Jamie and all these time travelers running into each other, you know, I'm just saying. So, but, you know, my next on my list is Ian. I just need him to find the same type of love. Yes, love like his parents love like his uncle and auntie, you know, just. Right, 'cause we got, we got the child part out the way now.

43:58 Yeah, we do. Can't. Even though he's not raising him, he does at least know that there is nothing wrong with him, that that is something that he can do. So at least he has a little bit more hope on that. So I don't know. I'm, I'm kind of liking this, you know, he might, he might be seeing this, this Rachel, you know. Yeah, I'm, I'm feeling the the flirting, this and everything. I'm OK with this match. But what about her and William? Because there's also a little bit of flirtiness there. Too It is she spent more time with William. I don't care, right now is the top of my list.

44:42 William comes after so William will find his love later. I need him to grow up. Oh, William. Yeah. What? He's still, I'm sorry, he's still like he had been through something. So he he's still young and her but mature, you know, wise the way of the world. William needs to to learn about first of all, he needs to learn who he really is so he can claim that inside. That's going to be tough, I think. That probably will be some years and some therapy. Yeah, girl, you don't. There's no therapy on. This so and he's still he's still young, like he's still young and understanding this war and like you said, the rebellions and how you can have friends on the other side and really thinking about what is happening and what this means.

45:35 He doesn't he he's not getting it because he is a little privileged though. Yeah, I was going to say privileged. And and even though I think Lord John has tried to teach him all of that, they're just some things. Things you just that. You can't learn until you've been through them. You can't learn to be a grown up until you've actually gone through, you know, having to pay bills, having to find things on your home or with someone like him. He he, he has time and he needs to just kind of grow and then he'll find his Rachel, but not that Rachel. But all I know is that old man Mr. Beasley better not pop out of no tent in the future. And I don't want to know.

46:26 I'm not going to ask you when this taping is over, but he better not. He did not Was Ian finds some love you. You mean Mr. Mr. Bug? I'm sorry. I've called him Mr. BS. Mr. the Bears. Lee, you were thinking about the twins, But yeah. Mr. Bugg. Oh, my gosh. Yes. That's the only thing I think that would maybe bother me about Ian and Rachel because, OK, so if they end up falling in love, you know, Jamie and Claire and Ian, they're still talking about going to Scotland. So if he takes her to Scotland with them, it'll be fine. I'd seriously doubt Mr. Bug is about to get on a a boat to get his revenge.

47:12 But if there's anything like the man pop out, Yeah, like we don't know where. He is. I was on the boat with you. I mean, we don't know where he is now. He could be dead for all we know, which of course we know that ain't going to happen. No, because we got to have some kind of drama Ian's gonna have to have. Yeah, we we do. But it's not needed because it wasn't like he did that on purpose. Mr. Bug don't. Care. I know, but I feel like after that, after having to go throughout years, it, it was a few years thinking that you may not be able to have kids and that you're not worthy. You're not a whole man, I know.

47:59 I think that's enough punishment and that someone you love was taken from you because you couldn't give her some and and give it to your friend. Right. And not to mention your wife died because y'all were being, y'all were being greedy, y'all were feeling entitled. Which? Right, right. So. I can kind of understand them being servants and you know, he was like, I was tasked men to to the Grants, like he was an important person back home in Scotland. So I can understand his indignation. I can understand his feeling of I deserve more. I just think, I think if Jamie had found out about the gold in a way other than the way that they found out about it, there might have been some room for some conversation without the aggression.

48:52 But because that gold was dug up or what, you know, turned up when Wendigo Donna was trying to find gemstones, it already added tension. You know, it added more tension to an already tense situation. And at this point, Jamie is just, you know, one thing about Jamie. Jamie is very much about loyalty. Jamie treats his people good. And he's like, I just want the respect and loyalty in return, which I think Arch and Merdina gave him. But it's the whole secrecy thing. Jamie don't like secrets. He never has. So I think that was part of his decision to go through all of that.

49:37 I mean, even when he found out about the the goal with the cameras, he wasn't pleased. So yeah, I I just think that bug should have left well enough alone. Or maybe it wasn't even him. Maybe it was Mardina, because she was the one who was like, we deserve this. So he's the one who decided, OK, I'm going to go dig it up because they're not going to be mean to me. They're not going to be aggressive with me. But she shouldn't have shot the goddamn gun. If she had not shot the gun she would still be alive cause Ian wouldn't be thinking oh Arch bug is about to murder my uncle. Right. And he was just doing self-defense like he cared for missus bug.

50:18 So that's why. But Art, yeah, I I have a feeling Arch is gonna make this a little bit harder for Ian to be happy, right? Because the, the moment he sees from wherever he is looking, it's shit, he might be at Fort Ticonderoga somewhere, but the minute he sees Ian being just a small bit happy, he's like, OK, so I'm a kid, I'm a, I'm a watch this like, it's one thing to be talking to her and oh, we're, we're doing a little flirting back and forth. Nah, that's not important that that can be, you know, whatever. If things get serious, that's gonna be the problem.

51:02 And then because Rachel is a Quaker, if she and Ian are able to get together, which we already know her brothers probably going to be like no because if he didn't want her talking to William because William is a quote UN quote violent man definitely don't want her talking to Ian cause Ian is definitely. Yeah, he walking around. Yeah, bad guy he walking around. Even if they were to get together, if Archbug comes after them, comes after Rachel again, Rachel is a quake 'cause she's gonna be like, no, don't harm him, God will protect me. Because that's what she said with the with the rat still people.

51:45 OK, Ian is not about to let that happen. Right, that's what I'm saying. No, he was raised by Jamie so. And if you saw, if you remember the way Jamie was with Richard Brown when he was in that room and he was sitting there just so calm and quiet and Richard Brown was like, but you're a good man. He said my he said, whatever good is left in me is because of my wife. And you tried to take her away from me. Punk is on. That's that's who raised in and then that the Mohawk.

52:25 What? Yeah. So I don't think Archbug needs to try it, but I have a feeling he's gonna he he he's going to he's a man of his word. That's. One, yeah, but I don't wanna, I don't wanna see that episode. I'm just saying I'm I'm not prepared for that. You know what? Because here's the thing, I understand why Archbug is going through what he's going through. But before that, he was, he was a good dude. He was one of our family. Yeah, but you know, at this point, I, I need you to be like, you know what we done after and this was consequence. So I got to go home with my life.

53:07 It was really my fault that my wife is dead, no one else's but my own. He's a proud Scots. He's not. Yeah, but I'm just saying then you better take responsibility. Yeah, and you better get ready to catch his ass. You mess with Rachel, right? Right. And another thing, this episode was kind of like, OK, the only interesting thing really for me was the the Cameron and we saw the. Claire got captured again. Right. That's what I'm saying that's. Trying to go after this woman who? Look, it's like a procedure, Outlander. One of them is in danger, the other one goes through the end of the earth to save them, and then at the end they find each other.

53:53 That's all that really happened, but. This, this is the thing. The thing with Claire is I understand you're a doctor. I understand you're supposed to help, but this woman was clearly out of her mind so one y'all should have gave her some kind of sedative before y'all put her on the boat while she's sitting here talking about what the Indians going to do, they going to scalp her, they going to skin her, all this other stuff. The second thing is the minute this woman shot herself in the head, Claire, you knew there wasn't shit you can do and you knew them. Red Coast was going to hear that bullet. Your ass should have took off instead of sitting there trying to see if she was still breathing.

54:34 They don't they too comfortable with they stuff. Claire should know better. And now because you don't got cancer, you know that You know Jamie finna come after you. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's like I don't even have a care in the world. Like, oh, I've been kidnapped, that's no problem. He's going to come in a week or no. Knowing him, two days from now I'm going to hear people dying on the side and I know that's my man. Like, you know, right. And even even with Ian trying to sneak into Fort Ticonderoga pretending like he's a spy, he probably could have gotten away with all of that. But of course William is there, and they don't realize William is there.

55:22 Well, at least Ian doesn't. But it's kind of like William is having too much close proximity with folks in his family I need. It's but it's fun how everybody just be like they know they know and you don't know a thing. Yeah, that's gonna be ugly when it comes out, 'cause he's gonna be like, you know, you know, you know, why is that? What? He's talking. So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm waiting for that reveal to happen. But I mean, and then and then at the end of the episode when Jet, when Claire has the the flask that William gave her with the what was the whiskey?

56:11 I think he said he was like, where did you get? And she was like, your son gave it to me. You just the emotions that goes over Jamie's face anytime his son is mentioned just hurts my heart. Like can y'all please tell this boy that this man is his daddy now? So they can just so they can have it out, hash it out and then work towards reconciliation or whatever. I need that to have like I am in. Well then I, I do, I do want to see it happen. But then I still feel bad for Lord Gray though, 'cause that's when that's even rough right there. Yeah, and you know. 'Cause he's really, William was going to be really upset about that. So I really don't want to don't want to see it. No, I understand.

56:59 And then also Brianna is not there to talk to him about it because like the episode a couple, you know, a couple of episodes. Ago because she's been through that herself. Because she's been through it herself. That's. Yeah, I just thought about it. Yeah, when she was talking to Lord John about it, saying, you really, are you ever going to tell him? And Lord John was like, I don't think that's the best thing for him. And she was like, do you understand how that's going to hurt him or how upset he'll be once he finds out? And I was like, what she should have added was and and she did tell him a little bit about Frank, but but what she told him about Frank was that, you know, she had another father, that he loved her very much. He she still thinks of him.

57:41 She, you know, that's still her father. But then when she met Jamie, she didn't say anything about the ugliness in between those things. She didn't talk about how when she found out by accident about Jamie being her father, how she thought her mother was a liar, how she thought her mother was a whore, how she went through this whole identity crisis because she didn't know who she was. Even though a lot of that happened in the future and there's certain things she can't say, she could have at least said that much. Like, look, I know what it's like to grow up your whole life thinking one man was your actual father and then somebody else was. He's not going to take it well. And the longer you hope you keep it from him, the worse it's going to be. She should be telling him this because at least he can think that and, and, and considerate, especially if he knows that she went through the exact same thing.

58:33 But again, I guess they just don't really communicate very well in the 18th century. So you're just going to have to wait and see how that plays out. But the fact that you got and you got Claire, you got William all in the same space at the same time, and now William is helping them. I was like, yeah, this is about to get real messy for him. It's about to get messy because I know he told, I know he told him he was like, look, we're square, so don't let me see you the next time 'cause I may not have a choice. I was like, bro, that ain't the smoke. You won't, 'cause like you said, William does not have the experience. Ian got all the experience.

59:15 Yeah, he does. You know, I'm saying all the experience. And, and the only thing that would help him win that fight is because Ian knows who he is. Ian is not going to go after him. Oh, no. So, yeah. But let's see, we have 1-2 more episodes in this part of the season. And then we have season the second-half of Season 7, and now Leia wants to be on camera. But yeah, there's there's just there's just so much that happens in the books that I really want to see on screen.

1:00:01 And I don't think we're going to get it some of the important things. I think we'll get some of the stuff that happens with Roger and Brianna. I know we're going to get all the most of the Jamie and Claire stuff. I'm pretty sure they will put William Disco discovering that Jamie is his father. I'm pretty sure they'll put that in the show. But some of the other stuff that leads up to that, they probably won't because. No, they we really. Don't have time to do all of that? We really do need to see that before it ends and before we see them die together at the end. So we need him to, we need him to be able to save my son. Well, I'm just telling you how this is this show's going to end.

1:00:46 There's no other way. I mean, I I believe you. Because when Jamie wanted to take his life in season 1, Claire was like, oh, OK, you want to die? I'm gonna die right here with you. And that was the thing that he was like, you can't die. OK, then. Then I guess we both stayed alive 'cause Claire was like, I'm not playing with you. Look, I could have gone home. I stayed here to be with you because I realized I loved you and now you want to check out on me. And he was like, everything that's happened to me that that that doesn't give it a reason to. She was like, no, 'cause I forgot Claire had been assaulted at by that point too, with by the the red coat deserter. And I was like, oh, yeah, OK. Yeah, they just, they just been through it, still going through it. We'll probably still right.

1:01:32 I mean, we got a whole war. I mean, to me the worst was when they were, you know, in Paris and stuff. So if they can get through that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh goodness. In the midst of losing the baby, too, Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot. Mm, hmm. Mm hmm. So the only other interesting thing about this is, like I said, like Jamie pointed out, his cousin is on the British side, the Brigadier Simon Fraser. Oh yeah, yeah. I was like, this is not going to be cute because if they do come to war, however that happens, you got your son and your cousin on the opposite side. Yeah, you're fighting on this side, even though I know he's trying not to fight.

1:02:21 But I mean, they consigned him. Yeah, if it happens, it happens. Yeah, you think they're going to let somebody with Jamie's experience not stop? Yeah, he keeps trying to get away from that and he keeps getting pulled back in, So no. But yeah, I, I'm just, I'm really curious to see how they're going to finish Season 7 out. And I think once I see how they finish out the season, that'll give me an idea of where they're going to go for Season 8. Because again, they can't do much for book 10.

1:03:01 Because not only is she still writing it, but why would she want to give her ending to the show when her book may not be done for another 3-4 years? You know, why would she want to give that away? Because if she gives that away, which I know this is not the case, before the people who are the show people, if you want to get them to read the books, telling them, telling them the way it ends is not going to help that. No, then that's The thing is like, that's why I'm OK with it ends with them dying together. But we just don't know what led to that. You know what I'm saying? What I'm saying talking. About them dying. Together, I'm going to keep putting it out in the atmosphere. I'm just saying they. Can be immortal.

1:03:42 You know, Claire has not come into her power yet because you know, they said something about when her hair turns white. She hasn't come into her power. She could be immortal for all we know. OK, here we go. But he's not so. OK, so we're gonna try this again. No, it's. They can't end. They can only it maybe. OK, how about this? They can't end it with them at the top of a mountain saying this has been a life we have lived and we're going to now settle down and this land and reminisce about flash and flashbacks of all that brought us here and knowing that our daughter is doing well with her, with our grandbabies. Your son is doing well, Ian is doing well. It's just me and you.

1:04:45 Everybody's OK and let's just grow old together in this cabin. Who'd actually go for for ending like that? I don't. And then it zooms. I don't need to see them die. It zooms out and then at that point we don't know what happened, but then the books the next day she gets kidnapped again. No, maybe. Maybe they'll maybe they'll end on a happy note in the books too 'cause like, I don't have to. Here's the thing. I don't have to see the the neat but finite end of their story. I don't have to see them die. I don't have to see it completely and.

1:05:25 But they're but the to be honest with you, I can do that. They're dead. But they're dead, though. Yeah. So with from so then from the real perspective, right. So they can find out how their parents died. And she's just it. It just brings tears to your eyes. I don't even need to find out that. Or maybe we don't even see it. Maybe we don't even see it. They do not have to die, Michelle, damn it. They do not have to die and. Maybe Bree reads a letter. Being on the mountaintop, looking over everything, knowing that all of the drama is done and we pan out. I'm good with that. I don't. Or maybe even maybe 3 reads a letter where someone says the last time they saw them was them walking into the woods.

1:06:12 See then we don't know. They're dead. They walked into the woods and and they've been living in their cabin. So she's like, you know what? I don't want to know. Or maybe, she says, I don't want to know. OK, I like the first scenario you described better. It it because it needs to end with them. This last scene needs to be them too, so it could be live or dead. That they don't have to die, Michelle. They do don't need to die. Well, if they don't, we got to imagine there's. Do you think they need to? Die in order to end the book, in order to end the show, in order to end the books, in order to end claiming, claiming Jamie and Claire's story, Do they need to die?

1:06:58 Because I don't think they do. Well, if they don't, we know they're going to get in more trouble. So let's end the troubles. They. Might be too old for trouble at that point. Let them be too. Let them grow old to the point ain't nobody about to ask no 80 year old Jamie to come fight for shit. Just. No, but you know, Claire going to be still having surgery at 90. She no, she's not, because her eyesight is already going. Remember, Jamie told her she needed glasses, She needed spectacles. She's not going to be doing no surgeries at No 80. She probably create some more. She probably had Brie bring me some glasses when you come visit. You know what? We don't even know if Brie is coming back. That's true.

1:07:42 I, I, they had to. They have to. They will have to because I don't feel like they would need to say goodbye again. And you're right. If William finds out, William needs to talk to his sister. Like, I know you're my sister. So I've always felt that they're going to come back. Like their heart isn't in the present, it's in the past. So I feel like they're going to come back. OK. So I always felt like they're going to come, come back. I have no problem with that. It it. It's just a matter of what will bring them back because they already know like. I know it's going to bring them back. They're going to need some money for that house and they're going to ask the little boy for some gold. There was a reason why, but they don't. Have to go back to get the gold they can just. That's true.

1:08:26 They don't have to go back, but I just want them to go back. I just want them to go back. I I do too, because for the same reason, I, I want to see William, I, I want to see how William and Brianna's relationship would develop just just as much as I want to see how his and Jamie's would. And like I said, there are a couple other things that happens in the books and I'm kind of wondering if they're going to put in the show. So yeah. But I again, it, it just depends on what would bring her back, what would happen her back. Like, I don't know, maybe, you know, I think at some point when she was going back when he was younger, the first time they tried to go back, Jamie said something about maybe you can look him up in your books and find him. Maybe she does the same thing that she did with the The Fire article.

1:09:18 She sees something that talks about, you know, William Ransom, the 9th, Laura Ellesmere or something happens and she goes back. But it would have to be something very, it would have to be something literally life or death. Because for them to go back now in the midst of the American Revolution, that wouldn't be safe for any of them. No. So. And I think that's one of the reasons why Jamie and Claire were kind of like, OK, yeah, you need to go back, even though it was because of Mandy. But it's still they were like, yeah, you don't need to be here because Rodger definitely would have been conscripted into service. And we know Rodger don't like to fight. He don't want to fight if he doesn't have to. He will if he needs to.

1:10:02 But he that's not his first choice. And then that will leave Brianna and and the kids. So yeah, it, it would have to be something, life or death for her to come back then, you know, or if something happens to Rodger or if something happens to Bri, neither one of them wants to be there in the future. Without them, they would have to go back at that time. So yeah, but. We'll. See. Yep. You have anything else you want to say about this episode? No, ma'am, they do have to die.

1:10:42 They don't have to die. And on that note, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time. Music.