Outlander S7E7 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #320

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Michelle and we are discussing Outlander season 7 episode 7. And before we get started on this, today is September 29th and yesterday the cast wrapped filming on the 8th and final season of Outlander. They are ending the show with 101 episodes, which is great because a lot of shows don't get to 100 episodes.

1:10 True. But I'm feeling so bummed. I am too, especially when the books are not even done yet. Could they just add one more? Just one more season? Or a movie. Or a limited series. And you know what, they can come, if they can come back and do a movie after Book 10 is released, that would be great. But I'm I'm going to be honest, I really think that part of the reason they're ending the show is because the stars can't they can't just keep themselves tied to this one show and and miss other opportunities. I mean, that's one of the reasons why we're not getting our Jenny back.

1:54 You know, Laura Donnelly was doing off doing other things. And it was just, I think with the way they kind of move things around as far as what happens in what season as opposed to the the corresponding book, it it probably just didn't make sense for her to say, OK, you know what? I'm on retainer. I can't do anything else. Like that's not that's not fair to the actors. And even with Sam and Katrina, like Katrina's out promoting a movie right now. Sam has TV movie coming out on stars in December. He's filming other things, she's filming other things. So I just think, you know, this has been 10 years for them, even though it's only 7-8 seasons, it's been 10, I think 11 years for them as far as from casting to, you know, pre production and all this other stuff.

2:48 So maybe they were just like, we're done, you know? Yeah, I'm so sad because there's so much story to tell. And I can say that because, again, I have finally finished reading all the books. I'm caught up and I'm just like, there's so much I feel like that they're going to have to leave off. But I mean, 101 episodes, that is a, that is an astounding feat for TV. They should be very proud of themselves. They've delivered a quality show, you know? Yeah, we have. A little every season. Here and there about certain things, but overall quality solid, the casting solid. They just like, I think Outlander is one of those shows where if you're going to make ATV show an adaptation, whatever.

3:45 This is one of those shows that I would say pay attention to what they do because even though they have had to make some changes from page to screen, it doesn't take away from the story. No, not at all. And. You can't really say that a lot with some adaptations because you looking like oh y'all just screw the whole thing up just by doing this or doing that so. And even going through COVID, because we have seen a lot of shows kind of just take a hit a little bit because of COVID and also the writers strike and everything which was warranted, but it's still like just took a little off some shows.

4:26 But you I haven't seen it in this show, to be honest with you. I don't feel like anything was rushed. I don't particularly know because I haven't read the books, but the the storylines are delivering for me. I'm just, I'm just going to have a issue with the closure because however they close, many of us, that's what we have as our closure, especially if we don't read the books. Yeah, but you're going to change that. Because we just, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to start this week. I keep saying I am, but I'm actually going to start this week actually listening to the audio book. But then when the last book comes out, I'm going to want them to do something because I want to see that closure.

5:07 Yeah. Yeah, which we already know how it's going to end. You know, we're not about to have this notebook discussion again, Michelle. Well, you know, we'll talk about that later. Yeah. Oh, I got a better part. Not just in each other's arms, but like after they have made love, then they pass away. That's beautiful. That's beautiful. I mean if you have to pick a moment to go. That's the moment. It's not at all. It's not at all. Just don't let their children come in and see them. But that's, you know, don't. Want them to die?

5:47 Because. I just really want like, you know how we've seen some of those, those scenes where they're standing on top of the mountains and, and they're just overlooking the Ridge, like let's have one of those scenes and they're just living happily ever after. Whatever. They don't have to die for me. And the thing about it is, to be honest, if I was the show writers, I'm just making a prediction, literally. That's probably without how I would end it. Because then you could you can come back and do a movie. Right. You could you see what I'm saying? And at that point they still have more stories to go, which you would get in the books.

6:28 You see what I'm saying? So like, even though the show has ended, like we really don't give an end for them. It's just that they have, you know, a positive spin up about their future and then that's it. And they have committed to being together forever, you know, and then that's how it ends. That works, right? That works. That honestly works for the books 'cause if they die then we'll be like whatever I'm. Not going to think about Jamie and Claire dying. We're not going to have that conversation, OK? No be. Sweet or they both have heart attacks after. You know what, let's get into this episode because I can't with you. I cannot with you.

7:10 So let's get into this episode. First of all, for anyone who's listening to our episodes, I do want to apologize about the last episode because I think we accidentally spoiled who the Visitor was at the end. Sorry. So we're sorry, but. Yeah. Sorry, beginning of this episode does confirm that the, the the lurker outside of Lallybrock AKA the Knucklevey is in fact William Buckley McKenzie, who is Rodgers 6 times grandfather, great grandfather and also the person who had him hung or rather who you know turned him in and Rodger ended up being hung as a result of being a traitor.

8:01 So this part of the story is interesting and I'm just going to, I'm, I'm going to start this episode off by saying have a lot of issues with Rodger and especially Brianna in this entire episode. Like she got on my nerves so much, you know what I'm saying? Yes. I understand being weary of Buck when he comes in because of course Rodger and Brianna know the relationship he is to Rodger and that's what makes them so pissed off about the whole hanging thing. But Buck has no clue.

8:41 None until this episode. And it's like when he comes in, he's very respectful to Bri and you know, when they're trying to get the story for him about how he appeared here, she's like, well, why would you scare our children? And block? He was like, know who I was dealing with. So how did What was I supposed to do? You know, he was just trying to survive in a place that you know nothing about. Nothing. So this. Is the interesting thing. When he was telling the story, he was talking about what happened after Arboros. So of course, you know, things went bad there.

9:24 And so he and Morag, his wife, their son Jeremiah, we're heading back to Inverness so that he could go and work for his brother-in-law. He says that they were walking past Craig in the dune, but he says we heard a noise and he was talking about the buzzing sound and he went to go check it out, see what it was. Because he was telling them when he was describing it, he was talking about how he could feel it in his bones. And it was, it was just a a very weird, strange feeling and it scared him. But he needed to know what it was. So of course he goes through the stones and ends up where Rodger and Brianna are. And I'm guessing nothing happened to him because he keeps fiddling with a ring he has on his finger and the gemstone is missing.

10:17 So he had a gemstone. I can't, I can't even imagine what would have happened if he didn't have it, but OK. But Bree asked him a question later on, and she was like, well, why didn't you try to go back? I'm like dummy you not. He doesn't know the rules. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like he, he doesn't even know where he is, how he got there. Right? Ma'am, you are writing a book about traveling. This is his first travel. You got to give him. Some leeway you should actually be his mentor. And you and you had like you had your mother to tell you about all this stuff and everything. When your Mama first told you about this stuff, you didn't believe her.

11:05 You thought she was crazy. You thought she was lying, you thought she was delusional. So Can you imagine what it's like for it's, it's bad enough if you're coming from the future, going to the past, because at least you have history to learn from. You can, you can go do your research and say, oh, in the seventh late 1700s, this is what was going on in the time period. This is what the fashion look like. This is what the people's attitudes were towards politics, religion, that sort of thing. When you're doing it the reverse coming from the past 200 years into the future, right? I can't even imagine what the hell was going on in this man's head.

11:49 Yeah, imagine seeing your first car, right. Those big giant buggies. I think that's what he called them, carriages. He was like those big things. And Roger was like, well, how did you come to be at Lolly Brock? Lolly Brock? He said, I saw you walk into a shop in Inverness. And Brianna was like, well, why didn't you say something? I don't know what's happening to me. I have no idea what is happening. Not only that, here is the person walking around that you know for a fact was hung at Alaman. Right. Thank you. That part. In this new time or this new area or whatever, 'cause I don't even think.

12:30 At that point, Buck realized he had travelled to another time. I maybe, you know, common sense told him because of the cars and everything and how everyone was dressed and everything. He was like, OK, something strange about this. But you don't really sit there and think, oh, I've travelled into the future, why would you? Especially coming from the type of background he came from, you know, So he said I didn't know what who or what I was dealing with. And then he was like to come knock on your door. No, I was the reason he got hung. I'm supposed to. I was just sitting there and the way she was looking at him, like she was so mad.

13:13 And I understand she's mad because he was the reason Roger got hung. And everything that happened after that, I understand, I understand. But again, this man had no clue that Roger was family. All he saw was a nice, good looking man talking to his wife. And we know this 1700s, late 1700s, you know what the attitudes were back then. They're very possessive of their women. You know it. I was just like, give some, give him a little grace. This man is already confused, y'all. It's talking to him and telling him questions like, why didn't you do this? Why didn't you do that?

13:56 I was just like. Yeah, just just to we already saw how I was for Claire. Like that was disorienting. Everything that happened to her. Rihanna you have and Rodger, you knew what you were walking into, right? It still will feel a little strange because you're like, I know I'm doing this and my brain is trying to make the connection. But for Buck, same thing as Claire, no idea. None, none. This is hard way to go investigate, right? Claire saw you know Randall like hey wait that's kind of strange he's not acting the same so that's the same way what how butt will feel but y'all treated him so I felt they just treated him bad for someone who doesn't know what is happening.

14:47 I think Roger was a little more. Responding he was. But overall they should have just been a little bit more. I don't know. Right and then you stick and then you stick him in the closet for hours because Rob fucking camera shows up unannounced. First of all, you see my screen name, my screen name for those of you who are listening and not looking at us. It says did they leave their instincts in the 18th century? Because or I, I should even just say Brianna for the most part, Roger a little bit. But even Roger was like, yeah, they're telling he could come by for dinner, but who just shows up?

15:28 Like you didn't call? No, but we talked about this during that time. People just showed up, you know what I'm saying? And they did. They showed up for like, hey, I was in the neighborhood, right? Or I thought about you and it was OK, right? Nowadays. Nowadays you just can't do that. No, 'cause if you show up at my door and I don't know you're coming, I'm not answering the door. I'm not either. And but that is just overtime, 'cause even think about when we grew up, like people would like stop by. Yeah, you know, 'cause it wasn't picking up the phone. I mean, no one picks up the phone and call at that time. No one really called.

16:15 They just come by. But now. But now if you didn't get a plan scheduled meeting that you coming, you had to call, you had to text right on this couple of days in advance, right? And no, even if it's a car, if a even if there is a driveway full of cars, everyone is going to lay down and pretend like they're not in the house 'cause we didn't know you were coming. Be like you didn't, you weren't on the invite. No. Why are you at my house? We're all in bed, so sorry. Like I can probably count on three fingers the the the people who can actually just come to my house without having to check and see if it's OK. Yeah.

16:57 And even they are going to be like, hey, you at home? You busy? Are you right? Well, what you? What you doing right, Right. But I think the thing that really was kind of like with this, so I understand you're panicking because you have this this distant relative from the past who is now in the future, he's confused, whatever. So you could have gone to the door and said when he said, did I come at a bad time? Yes, actually you did, because we have a relative who, you know, just stopped by and we're entertaining him. Maybe let's reschedule this for next week, that sort of thing.

17:40 You could have easily done that. Right. Or you could make it really awkward and say, yeah, we're in the middle of a huge argument and we need time. I mean, even even Rodger's explanation, he was like, Oh no, we we decide we were just taking advantage of the kids not being home to tidy up. I would have been like, yeah, we're taking advantage of the kids not being home. Let's reschedule this for another time. The kids not being home. That should have been. The right, right, right. Oh, you OK? OK, OK. I'll leave you guys alone because I'm so sorry. Yeah. You know, I was married before. I have three children.

18:22 My, my kids are two years apart from the 1st 2:00 and then four years between the 2nd and the 3rd. So kids are always there Whenever you got a break, you have a break, you have a break. I'm not sitting here cleaning up the house like. No, like what? We're not doing that. We're young couple. Come on, friend, I need you to take the hint. Right? However, he keeps imposing himself. That's what problem I have. It's OK to stop by. But then you realize, OK, they could be really busy not having kids around. You impose. You keep imposing, imposing, imposing. Y'all started drinking with that, OK, even with that, y'all started drinking without me.

19:02 Yes, because the kids are not here. Take the hint. Read the Room. However, he did read the room. He did take the hint, but that's not a part of his plan. So he's like, F them, I have a plan in place and I'm going to do my plan. OK, so about that, the whole thing. Oh, I would like to see the reference hymnals. Rodger, bring the hymnals out to the kitchen. Why are you letting this man in your office? You've all you already know. He has read your journal by accident. Why the fuck in your office? And then not only that, you leave him in the office so you could go do something, and you leave him with the box of letters with Jimmy's name on it sitting on top of the desk unlocked. I don't understand.

19:58 Like for two people who have been so conditioned, I would say. To watch what they say and watch what they do because they were living in a time that was not their own. For them to come back to the present and just be so careless. I really have a problem with that. Like, the first time you messed up with him finding the book, that should have been your first clue. Like, OK, we need to be a little more mindful of what we're doing with these letters, with this information and just, you know, having it around.

20:42 Then the person who read the book is now in your house uninvited, and you've left him in the office. Then you have dinner with him and with the kids and when y'all are making like very kind of subtle, not, you know, a little too subtle in my opinion, when y'all are making subtle hints about, oh, you know, hey kids, it's time for bed. Sure, Q to go. It is, but not if you have a plan. So I I see what the problem is. OK. They are so used to explicit direct danger, like straightforward, like it's a battle, someone wants to kill them.

21:31 You, you can't be seen, you can't make matches because it's going to burn down your mom's home later. Like they are used to that, that just, you know, simple danger. They aware of that type of danger, but they're not aware of people that are calculated, not those two, not really. So they are naive in that sort of sense like they have, I always want to say they have St. smarts, but they have traveling smarts, but not just regular. They don't have common. Everyday people smarts. They don't have common sense. I'm trying to help them out a little bit but but seriously though. But seriously, they don't have that normal common sense of like we are in a different time and people are calculated in manipulative and you're being manipulative. You know what I'm saying?

22:28 But you don't get that because you're so used to. There's a side here, then there's a side here, dangerous right here. If we do this, if we travel, you know, N 20 miles, we're on someone else's territory. We have the, you know, British soldiers, American soldiers, like they get that. They understand that, but they don't get just coming home and how someone could this could be a guy. Let's just say this guy doesn't care about the traveling. He may just want to like kidnap your kidnap your kid. You understand I'm saying right? OK, or sell your or kidnap your wife and sell her to the high. Like you're not just because something doesn't seem dangerous can be dangerous, but you're not perceiving that.

23:12 You're thinking everything is light and fluffy and it's not. And I think that's where. They're having issues, like they're comfortable, they're so comfortable, but Cameron didn't come to them If he came aggressive and I'm the bad guy written above me, villain. But I mean, think about his first, his first interaction with Brianna. That's, but that's the. Time see and they're like, oh. That's the time. But still in danger. It's strange. Weird to me because $1.00 is not even from your time. And he can tell Rob. Something ain't right about Rob Cameron.

23:53 OK, not only that, you have issues with Buck being in the house or being around the kids. OK, yeah, he can stay in the house, but I don't want him anywhere near the house when we're not there. But you don't let your son go and stay with this this man that you know. Yeah, you y'all have had dinner and, you know, you work with him, but what do you really know about him? Like you don't up until this particular dinner, you didn't even know this man was had been married and had a kid because he doesn't have the I know because he doesn't have the danger sign. But that's the that was the And I guess that's the thing that bothers me because even though he doesn't have the danger sign, everything about his behavior from the way that he talks and the way that he kind of it like, and this was even before I read the book, like from the moment he appeared on the screen, I had been with Icky. Yeah, yeah.

24:52 And I totally get that. I get the ick, but gets the ick. I bet you Claire, Jamie will feel the ick too. They, but they've been around and paying attention. Where, where was Rodger raised? You see what I'm saying? Like you had to think about that. And then we threw them into time travel again. We threw them into dangers. We told them it was dangerous and whatnot. They still naive sometimes. They naive when things happen in the past. But this is A to be honest with you. But here you got these are two people who both had experiences with Stephen Bonnett and knew from jump that this man was not any good. Knew from jump.

25:34 And and from jump, knew from jump. And Stephen Bonnett was just as charming, was just as mannerable. And see what happened. And, and and that's that's what I don't understand, like why, why can you guys not see it in Rob Cameron? And then they think. They think because where they are, you understand what I'm saying. And then they think where they are, which they can't. They shouldn't be that way because even at that time they were serial killers. Like he could have been a serial killer. I mean, we really don't know yet either. What do? You well, this is. True. Be honest with you. I'm saying he could be a. He could actually be a serial killer.

26:14 Yeah. Because they're not paying a they don't pay attention to that. They're literally just getting comfortable where they are thinking it's just a safe area. Oh, I work with this guy. His kids are in school with my kids. You see where I'm going with this. And then we turn around and it's a Lifetime movie about it. Right. And and and your child has been kidnapped. And are you on Dateline? Like, I thought he was a nice guy, OK? And everybody else was like, we never fool with him. That nice guy just took your son through through the stones, according to what Mandy feels. And also the fact that they found Jim's scarf. And I was just like.

27:01 And like no red, like they can get no red flags. We got the red flags but got the red flags, but they didn't get the red flags. Again, what time period we're in? He has to be OK. It just it, it really bothers me because I feel like that is, I don't know, maybe I'm being a little too harsh on them, but no, you, you should be, you should. Be you should be harsh on them because ultimately, to be completely honest with you, they should. I hate for them to live like this, but their guard should always be up. Because you do not know about other travelers. You do not know that the things you've done to other people, they didn't leave notes for future can. Yeah.

27:54 You don't. You really don't know. Just like Jamie and Claire left those letters for them, right? You could have somewhere and then someone taking out revenge. You do honestly don't know because you live honestly. You live in a different type of world than the rest of us. So you should be always aware that one, you may run into another traveler. One that traveler could be a relative of yours or it could be an enemy of yours. Yeah. I mean it could be your daughter or it could be a your I was about to start cursing. It could be your effing future kid like it could be Jimmy when he 50 years old traveling back and like you just have no. Yeah. Idea.

28:35 Yeah, but then the other. We have no no idea. Yeah. But then the other thing that bothered me as far as like their carelessness with stuff, like we talked about Claire and and Brianna about the stuff that they took back with them or like the stuff that Brianna was making, like, you know, the little, the little wooden airplane or whatever. So Buck is in there and he's playing with one of Jimmy's plastic airplanes and he's talking to Roger about he was like, of all the things that I've seen, he was like, you know, have you actually been in one of these? Oh my, Jeremiah would love something like this. And Roger is like, well, that's one of Jimmy's favorites, but maybe you can take it back for your Jeremiah if Jim will part with why.

29:25 Why are you putting these ideas in this man head to take something that obviously does not belong in the 1700s? You're giving him the idea that he might be able to take this back if he is able to go back to the stones and find his face. What is wrong with y'all right? Right. And luckily on here we do not talk about alternate timelines because that will definitely create a alternate timeline which would change things. But that's not what this story is about, so. But, and, and this thing is, yeah, because I think with Outlander and we don't, again, we don't really talk about timelines or like multiverses or whatever with, with this, because one thing that we have seen is that it seems like this timeline, the the life that they live is very fixed. It's like even though Claire and Jamie tried to, they tried to stop the Battle of Culloden, they tried to stop the Jacobite Rising, they did all of these things. And even though it might have stopped something, in one sense it always self corrected, you know? So it's like those events.

30:41 The major points right and not I believe in Outlander. Major points are fixed, but little things actually can be change. Yeah, anything that's not going to have a big, big thing, yeah, thing on the future, I'm sorry, taking back a plastic. Airplane. That that will change. No, that actually will change things because that could change who created what and when. Yeah. So I just, I just have an issue with the lack of the lack of care that they take, like them being, I'm gonna stop saying like so much one of these days.

31:28 But them being time travelers, that is such a secret that they have tried very hard to protect. Because you see what happens when people start knowing things. It's different if it's family. Like I'm, I still don't understand why Ferguson, Marsley don't know yet. I don't. And that sort of thing. They're really close family, so there's no reason. But like Claire was, she was branded as a witch. She was tried as a witch even though they didn't know. She came from the future, but she was different enough with the things that she knew, with the way she carried herself with, with her attitudes towards, you know, how people treat each other, how people treated her.

32:15 She was different enough for them to say, OK, something ain't right about her. We're going to burn her at the stage. But now you're encouraging other people to be like, oh, yeah, take this plastic airplane back to 1778. If you can get back there, why would you do that? You don't. So now you, now you look, are you going to pay him back? You want him to be hung now? Because if he goes with that airplane and somebody asked him, well, what is that? Well, what what is first of all, the plastic. I don't even think plastic existed back then. So you've already got questions about that. You've got questions about what exactly this thing is.

32:57 What are you going to tell them? Oh, it's something I thought about it. It, you know, flies in the sky. People already probably remember Jimmy with his little room, room and all this other stuff that he used to call the car and the airplane. Like, why are you trying so hard to? I don't even put yourselves in danger. Put other people in danger. Like, it's almost like you're waving a big banner that says, hey, we're time travelers, help find out what it's about. Yeah, yeah, I, I definitely agree to that because I guess in all the other time traveling things we have watched or endured, everyone is like, OK, there's certain things you should not do and they continue to do and never ask themselves the question the day. Like, why would you give him something to take back when when you were back there, you question if you should make something or not.

34:06 So why would you send him back with a toy from Toys-R-Us? That doesn't make him, you know what I'm saying? Now, if you send him back something, you know, a drawing of them because you can be like, this is your family, this is what you endure. This is your legacy type of thing. But honestly, a plane. Can we just get the man back to his family? Right. Let's not worry. About No, they can't take a drawing back, because a drawing will most likely be in crayon and the people in the 1700s gonna be like what the. Hell no. We, we need a, we need someone to draw it in pencils and charcoal. But you gotta, you have to think about those things. And let's be clear, they don't think. I.

34:52 Obviously, you know concerning that. Sometimes they don't, you know, they're they're a little bit sheltered, but not sheltered, which is kind of odd because you even think about Rodger dealing with widows, like he didn't even get that. OK. That part I would say I understand that a little bit more than I do the other stuff because this is a this is a long running joke. We, I mean we tell this all the time. Some men are very clueless when it comes to a one woman flirting with them. They they are they. They don't pay. Attention, but that's fine. I I'm OK with that. But then again, you also know the time and men just don't have a friendship with a woman like that.

35:40 Which is, which is how he ended up getting hung in the 1st. Place, you know, you see what I'm saying? So that's not how like currently that's fine. But you guys know certain things yeah happen, though sometimes they are tad bit clueless with everything unless it's seriously written across people faces. Villain danger, stay away, don't do it right. So but now they will learn. Hopefully they will learn from this experience. If you don't lie after this man, then kid, that's your child. Right. Which could, like, literally you don't. Well, now we wouldn't just send our kids off to someone's house to spend the night.

36:27 Back then. People did all the time. Yeah, and even sent the kid to go over the person's house at night and they walked down the road and they get picked to be that. Is true because I think that I think that the year is 1980 presently for Brianna and Rogers. So yeah, you're right. You're right. Yeah, we we did a lot of those things in the 80s. We did, and I watched the documentary about how a lot of kids went missing and that, but no one would have paid attention because they're like, oh, you know, you need a ride. Someone drives by and say they'll give you a ride. You get in the car, but no you don't. Yeah.

37:08 So hopefully they will have learned their lesson and get him back, and I don't know how they're going to do that. I don't either. And I, I think it's very interesting because in this episode we see a little bit more about the connection that Mandy and Jim have with each other. We saw it in the 1700s, right before they came back when Mandy was a baby, because they were trying to get Jim to hear the Stones. And he was like, yeah, I hear it singing. She can hear it, too. And they're like, how do you know? She told me. And then looking at him, like, what? So the whole way that they find out that Jim is missing is because Mandy has a bad dream.

37:49 And she tells them he's gone. Jim is gone. And they're like, no, he's he's OK. He's over at Bobby's house. He's just spending the night. He'll be back. She was like, no, he's not here. He's not here. And then because she's so adamant about it, Rodgers, like, what if he's not here? And she points to her head, She say he's not here with me. And that's when Brianna realizes, oh, wait, their connection. And then she tells him she was like, Rodger asked her what was in the bad dream. And she says there were stones. And they were screaming at me. Now we got to remember Mandy was a baby, like only a few months old when they came through the stones.

38:36 She wouldn't remember the standing stones. No. So the fact that she is saying this so clearly, so perfectly, there was there were stones and they were screaming at me, Jim and I think Rodger said, were you at the stone? She said, not me, Jim. The bad man took him there. Listen. Yeah, you know what? She got a little bit of Jamie too, because Jamie has dreams of things, of things he has not experienced, and she is doing the same. Right. So that really, that really makes me wonder more about Jamie as well, because we know he can't travel, but it's almost it's almost as if you have the one side, you have clear side. You have gave us the side you have, you have the people who are the travelers and then you have the people. Even though Mandy is is both, she can she can see things that you know, she's aware of things that she shouldn't be aware of and she can also travel.

39:48 But I wonder if there's something about Jamie's side, and I don't know if this is with anybody else on his side, but it's almost like he's a magnet for Claire's side of the family. Because think about it, even though like Claire found him the first time just kind of by accident. And then of course, we see that it's obvious. These are these are two people who were destined to be together. Through time, through space, through everything, Brianna, even though she, she knew where she was going, she knew she was looking for her mother.

40:33 She found Jamie first. You know, Roger came looking for all of them and, and has had a similar experience too. So it's it's like there has to be something special about Jamie that we just haven't explored yet. And I will say this too, for the books, I'm not going to give spoilers, but that is something that happens in the books. As far as him having the dreams about Jim answering the telephone, about him seeing the kids playing, those were dreams that actually work in the book. So he also dreams of them in the books they haven't said anything about.

41:19 What it is with him, right? And that has to be something special because he also, he also had a dream about Mickey Mouse in the show, so. No, I don't. Was it? No. He didn't have a dream about Mickey Mouse. Brianna was telling him about Mickey Mouse. I thought he had. He asked her, but he had that it was like it hinted at it. OK, never mind. I thought he had a dream of her somewhere. Oh wait, you know what? And then that's when she told the story. Or was the story a part of something else when she was sleeping? OK, I. Don't know, OK. But we do know, we 'cause I can't remember now, we do know he does dream of things that he should not know about.

42:05 Right. He had the dream of Claire sitting at her desk with electricity around her. So. So he's special. And that's one of the things they better put in this show before. It is why he's special. They need to talk about those connections. They do they have to talk about why, Why he's special? Because you had me to believe it. Which is funny because we're watching a show about time travel and I had a hard time about him dreaming about future things. I'm confused of why that would be, why I had a hard time. Yeah, but I mean it, that could also explain something about why his ghost was there looking at Claire in the very first episode.

42:49 And remember that vision of his ghost that was clearly young Jamie. I mean, he had on the little, the little beret, his hair was curly. He had on the the kilt. He he looked younger. It was a young him. So he needs to tell us that he's been having dreams all of his life, which is why that's passed down to his. Granny could be, but that could and then again that would. Then the question would be, does that have anything to do with his parents and and the? Reason why I We'll find that out later.

43:31 Yeah, yeah, with Blood of My Blood with the other show. But it had me thinking, because I've been, I've been doing a Outlander rewatch. I started all the way at the beginning, season 1, so I'm in season 3 now. But do you remember the episode where Jamie was in prison and Duncan Kirk came up the cliffs and he was talking about the gold is cursed, The gold is cursed. And then remember when he was in the bed and he was telling Jamie about this vision or this whatever he had, he started talking about the Mackenzie's and about Jamie's mother and about how she married a selkie from Selkie Island, talking about Jamie's dad. So now this got me thinking maybe there's something a little bit, I don't know if I want to use the word magical, but there's something special about him as well. Yeah.

44:34 And maybe that's passed down. Yeah. So now it's like, how can you end the show? Because there's so many other things that we need to explore. And they haven't talked about it in the books yet. But the good thing is we are getting a show about Brian and Ellen Fraser. So maybe those answers will, maybe they won't answer the question, but maybe they will give us enough information for us to kind of put two and two together and come up with four instead of 6. So but. Like we're like we're doing now. We're just. But I mean, I didn't even think about all of that until we just started discussing it because I was like, OK, so Mandy has this connection with Jim.

45:20 Jamie obviously has a connection with the kids as well. But then I thought about, I was like, wait. But he said he dreamt of Claire in her own time before, and that's unusual. So now I'm thinking, OK, so there has to be something like there has to be a reason why Jamie and Claire have been drawn together the way that they have. Because even with all the trials, the tribulations, the murders, the the, this, the that, the, the, the, the trauma that they have gone through just so they can be together, it has to be something on a supernatural level.

46:04 Right. And we can add to that that it is because we can just say that Jamie is magical. And he is. Let's see, he's a Patronus. Yeah, my shirt, My shirt says Jamie Fraser is my Patronus. So yeah, he's patron. So he's. So let's say he's kind of more like, we could say like maybe a fairy where like they attract because I feel like he attracts a lot of people around him. I agree. And he has the 9 lives. Yeah, I believe because he he also attracts a lot of trouble. He does and and think that's why they said that about his lives like he should at this point be there. He should be something is really he has a protection spell around him of something yes, so which draws which honestly makes you think maybe he draws travelers to him. Maybe he is the music, the noise, that frequency. I like that.

47:15 I do too. I like that OK. OK. So we're going to, we're going to keep, we're going to keep ruminating over this, but we're not going to do it in this in this show because we have gotten way in the weeds, as your husband would say, way in the weeds. We're not in the basement. We're we're, we're nowhere. But I mean, at least it does relate to what we were talking about, because we were talking about Mandy and her knowledge of Jim and the fact that Jim is not present in her mind anymore. That's how she knows. OK. He's missing. Right. And then, of course, you know Roger, which will be the reason why they attract trouble to a lot than the normal people. Yeah.

47:59 Good, good and bad. That's. That's true. That's true. So. OK. So. Yeah. So. Yeah. So her calls. She calls Bobby's mother because Jim is supposed to be over there for a sleepover. You know, they were supposed to go to the movies, have a sleepover. She's like, yeah, Jim is not here. Well, your brother said that he was going to be over there spending the night. Sister goes and looks across the street at her brother's house. Brother's car is gone, so Roger and Buck head to the Stones. They find Rob Cameron's car and then at the stones, which obviously are still active because they hear it, they find Jim Scarf and I was like this food and took this boy through the stones, which so then here's the question and you and I discussed this in the last episode.

48:53 Who the fuck is Rob Cameron that he can go through the stones? Correct. But here's the thing that we've missed. This is why when you first got that letter about. The the Frenchman, I mean the Spaniard and the gold the Frenchman. When you got that letter, you should have asked your baby about it, because now, now I just read the letter correct. And you have no idea where to go, right? I wanted to play like this. Is he he? Ha ha. You should have asked him about the gold. You should have asked your son about it. But you did. Well I mean OK I will under I I will say this.

49:37 I understand them not asking because of the fact that Jamie gave them the warning that the gold is cursed. Yeah, but we still should have just asked the boy if it was true and where it is and we going to stay away from it. But now you don't have an idea. However, I'm in love with the duo of Rodger and Buck, but they don't have their own. Love it. I need to see some more adventures with them because because here's the thing. But came in and this is the other reason why I was like, Brianna, you need to treat him nice. You need to be better than you need to be better to him. Because even when she was questioning him earlier about why he's there, she was like, I just want to know why you're here. Like, don't you want to go back to your wife and son? What were you thinking about when you came through the stones?

50:26 This dude was fake. This dude was thinking, what the fuck is this noise and why is it reverberating all through my body? I don't think he was specifically thinking of Roger or any of that because again, he didn't know Roger was king to him. And why would he think about Roger going through the stones? So there's, I, I do believe that there may be something else there that attracted him or OK, if we're going back to the conversation we had five, 5 minutes ago, Mandy being able to travel and also have this connection with Jim, maybe she's that magnet or that, that frequency as well.

51:06 Maybe, maybe there was something out there, and I know we're probably stretching it, but maybe there was something out there that pulled him through to that particular time because. He was needed. He was needed because I will say this, they have been, you know. Oh, yeah. Well, we're going to find. We're going to send you back through the stones. This, that and the other. But the minute they found out Jim was missing, but was there. OK, well, let's go find your boy. I told you Well, right. Or die he was. Yeah, I'm glad he didn't say that. I told you so. But he went with Rodger to the stones. He was trying to tell.

51:48 Look, you need to calm down so we can find him, you know, trying to keep trying to keep Roger from. Doing something stupid. Doing something stupid, but also blaming himself because yes, Roger is going down the very same list that I just chided them for. He was like, why did I leave the letters out? And then he remembers that in the journal, he wrote about Gavis Duncan thinking that you need a blunt sacrifice. And so now he's thinking, oh, Rob is going to try to go through the stones and he's going to use Jim as a sacrifice. Thankfully, there was nobody at the stones like we saw with Jimmy Galis's husband. But still, it's like Buck, I think is going to be the one to kind of level Brianna and Rodger because right now they are way up here because, you know, if Rodger is in the car verbally talking about what he should have done, what he did wrong, this, that and other, you know, Brianna is probably 10 times worse.

52:52 But Brianna may not even know some of the stuff that Rodger knows. Rodger may not have even told her that he thinks Cameron read his read it. Yeah, 'cause they didn't. They may not have had that conversation. He he may have just not say anything, you know, like brushing it off. So now she's in her mind thinking my coat like we don't really know what her thinking is. A more like I welcome my coworker in. He could be a serial killer. I think he may have said. Did he tell her? I'm trying to remember because. I don't remember. That she would be like, why is he why is he taking Jim? Like why would he take Jim, right. I think that Roger was saying, oh, probably because he. They they may have had that conversation in bed. It may be something that was off screen in bed. They had the conversation.

53:43 No, I think he did mention to her that one of the letters was disturbed and he, Rob Cameron knows about the. The gold. OK, Yeah. Because and and again. But does he know Roger? You're sitting in, you're sitting in your office, you're looking around because you can't sleep and, and something woke him up. So that's the other thing. Something woke Roger up right before Mandy started screaming. He got out of the bed, he went downstairs and he just started looking around. And that's when he noticed the box with that little piece of paper sticking out the corner. And I'm like, the minute you saw that, that piece of paper was sticking. Cause your instincts was telling you, because your instincts should have been saying all along. That's what Buck was trying to say. Like Buck's instincts were like, oh. But danger, Danger stranger.

54:37 Right. And now you're like something don't feel right, but you can't put your finger on it. Now you have your finger on it. So, and let's just hope it's not too late. Let's see, let's see. But yeah, so I said it before and I said it and I'll say it again, that Rob Cameron, you know, I said it before that something ain't right about him. He needs to go. No, that you, you don't touch Jim now. You you need to die. You need to die. Jamie needs to see this in the past to see that his grandson is in trouble. And tell Claire, like, OK, I don't know what we're about to do, but Jamie kind of has his mind on up things right now. So let's just kind of transition into that. Because last note though, we really don't. We now need to know who Cameron is for him to be able to travel and hopefully we find out more in the next episode. OK, so we can go to the Jane.

55:38 Cameron is a dead man walking. That's what he is 'cause he didn't fuck with the wrong family. I that's what that's what I was saying like we don't You should be aware that they could be other travelers around you and their intention is is not good. Yeah, and like I said, when when Buck asked them about other travelers and Roger told him, you know, my mother-in-law a, a, a Indian that I met when to go daughter. Right. So you have to. And then it's so sad that they don't even realize like it, it's even before you. Because if you think it's passed on to your kids, it's actually maybe your grandparents, your parents.

56:21 I mean, Gaylis Duncan. I mean, think about it. She's Rogers six. Well if Buck is is the six times great grandfather then that means Galas is 7 times. Right. So it's like every, so it's now looking like it's every generation. It's not skipping, it's going every generation. It's just people know and don't know or haven't had the experience or if you have a lot of missing people in your family line, hint, hint. They may have the travelers. Yeah, they. Look, they only showed us a little, a little piece of the Mackenzie family tree. Yeah. So we don't know.

57:04 So 'cause 'cause we, we know it's Roger, We know it's Jim and Mandy. It's hitting the generations. Yeah, 'cause you just go. We can just say this. Yep. You've got Buck, Buck. Roger, Jim, Mandy, that's just five and that's within a 6th generation gap. So we don't know. But we don't know about Buck's son Jeremiah. And then he said Morag was pregnant when he went through the stones. So she's currently pregnant in 1778. We don't know anything about that child. And then, of course, the generations coming down, it's, it's all, oh, that's the other thing on that side. Aside from Davis, it seems to be all, well, yeah, it's all males. As far as all the Jeremiahs 'cause, if you think about Roger.

57:59 And he was like, yeah, he was like, my son is Jeremiah. He was named after my father, who was named after his granddad, who was named after your son. So it's like every other generation, there's a Jeremiah. So maybe that could be the kind of, I don't know. We're again, we're, we're just kind. Of well, no, we just know it's kind of figured out. It's in the family. Yeah. So basically that means there's other families where there's travelers, so you never know who you're going to encounter. And Cameron clearly is 1. And the weird thing is, OK, isn't Jacosta's last name Cameron?

58:39 Oh, don't even put stuff. In my head. That's OK. What's happening to Jamie right now? What's happening to Jamie right now? I can't, Right? Yeah. We won't. We won't go there because that would. Be that's a different episode. That would be really screwed up if he was family and going through all that, but. Yeah. That don't wait. Don't make a connection. Please don't. I'll tell you about it off there. OK. Thank you. I'll tell you about just remind. OK, let's go back. Let's let's go to Jamie and and Claire. Because I, I realized we're not talking a lot about the American Revolution stuff. And that's because I'm just one of those people. History is like one of the things I just don't like talking about.

59:26 And there's so much going on with these people. But we do see the battle Saratoga happening in this episode. Jamie has been, I don't know if he's been conscripted or if he volunteered since he was like, well, they conscripted me for the army anyway, or for the militia anyway. I might as well just go ahead and join these snipers. But apparently Jamie don't need the glasses that he needed in in season 3 to to shoot some folks because he has been. Recruited into a very elite group of gunsmen who are fighting in this war.

1:00:13 And again, I'm sitting here looking like. We can never retire. Yeah, I, I, I think I'm, I'm to the point where I'm just ready for people to leave Jamie and fuck alone. Let him retire, live his life. This man just wants to go home to Scotland. But y'all have pulled him into the militia. He had to go through all this stuff with Fort Ticonderoga. Then Claire got kidnapped. He had to go save her yet again. And I'm just like, just leave this man alone, leave him alone. But no, y'all, y'all got him going into battle, which he was not supposed to see any action, right?

1:00:57 That's what he told Claire. But what happens at the end of the episode? His ass is lying on the field on the battlefield. I know he's not dead because we. Have a whole. We have. First of all, we have a whole another another season coming. Season and 1/2. Right. And it's not just clear. Right. So here we go again. Yep, check off one of those nine lives, right. But I think the really the really interesting thing that's going to happen not just in this episode, but I think in the next, I think we have what, one more episode before the the hiatus.

1:01:44 So we're still covering 7A7B comes back November 22nd. But I have a feeling they're going to do the other big battle because I think there are two battles of Saratoga. And The thing is, Jamie is fighting against his son in these battles. Because up until you see him on the battlefield, most of that battle sequence we see from like William's point of view, because William is also heavily in this particular episode. But then when you realize William was on one side and then again at the end of the episode, you see Jamie on the ground, you're like, wait, they were fighting against each other. And you know, that was the one thing Jamie said he did not want to do.

1:02:28 That's why he was trying to leave before things got heavy because he said that he would never be on the opposite side of a battlefield from his son. Right? So I'm like OK y'all can stress me out. I know, 'cause I keep thinking that, you know, Jamie is really good at his job. Oh my God, he's really good at his job. Anything he does, he's very great at. So then it's really hard when I just kind of feel like William was going to get shot by his dad. I, I oh. I was like, I'm, I'm stressed about this. And then you. Know they can't do that. Jamie will, I mean, he won't die. We we know William's not going to die, but I really don't know, to be honest with you. I don't know what's going to happen to William, but I don't want him to be shot by his dad and I don't want that on Jamie's conscience.

1:03:21 And they haven't even told each other he hadn't told William who he was. So that's kind of the hard part, right? So, but I'm like you, I love, I'm opposite, I love history, I love all of this. But I am now tired of it, to be completely honest. I'm ready for us to move on. I'm ready for him to go back home. I'm ready for. Scotland for Jamie Yeah, I am, I'm, I'm, I'm like ready for that like, I, I get it, it these little wars are important. I like how they don't know about them because that's not what they really learned in school. They learned about the the major, you know, wars and battles that they had.

1:04:05 However, I am now tired of this. I am tired of the mid battle. I'm tired of. Lionel Brown Territory. Right. It is for me. I'm tired of Claire being, you know, the battle nurse. I don't care anymore. Yeah, 'cause we know what's going to happen now. So I need them to to constantly put them in danger, to put them in these battles when we know he is not going to die. But you're taking his lives away. I don't need him to have two left by the time he gets to get home, right? 'Cause they no tell her what's going to happen in Scotland.

1:04:47 Right. So I need us to now leave America. Yes, and I I mean, we already know they are going to make it to Scotland because they yeah, we do because of who don't have on the cast list when they announced who was going to be in the the second part of season 7. So we know we're getting Ian back. We know we're getting Jenny back. We know that there will be some flashback scenes because Dougal and Gay list. Will be in there. Will be back, Marsley back. I mean I need Fergus back. Oh yes, they are back. They are back 'cause I did see a, they did post a video and also Marsley, Lauren Lyle, she posted her, her final day of shooting.

1:05:36 I think it was maybe a couple of weeks ago. She was like, she was like, my shooting for Outlander is done. I was like, oh, we just got you back. But then I have to remember season 8, she season 8. So I'm like, OK, we we may not see them in the back half of Season 7, especially if they are, if they explore Scotland the whole time, which I don't know if they're going to do. But I think for Season 8, I think they only have, I want to say it's only 8. Episodes I can't I I just can't, but that's why I need us to get out of this war.

1:06:17 I I'm just done with it. I'm be honest with you. Yeah. I'm done. Yeah. It's not really doing any. It's still quality, but it's not doing anything for me. Yeah, because again, going back to what we were saying earlier about fixed timelines, we already know how it's going to end. Yeah, we do. We. Already know how it's going to end. You just make them hurt. It's just hurt again. Yeah. And you're, you're introducing us to some of the, some of the figures from that time, like we've already met Benedict Arnold. I don't know if any of the others are as important, like, oh, Simon Fraser, you know, that's got to be a relative of Jamie's.

1:07:07 Yeah, it is. So I just I don't know if he's a real historical figure because just like we talked about this a while back, Jamie's grand sire from season, I think it was season 1. What was his name again? Love it, love it, love it as well as here. Was it Simon Lovett? No, the Fraser that was talked about. Oh, Simon, Simon Fraser. OK, I thought so Simon Fraser, but I think, I think Simon was his grand sire's name as well. But and and I know that that there was a real historical person by that name who was a part of the Fraser clan. But yeah, it's, it's just getting to the point where it's just, it's, it's dragging on too long. Yeah, and it was, it was somebody. He was a general.

1:08:14 OK, OK, so it it's like we know where where this story ends. I seriously doubt if Jamie would play a big enough part for him to be mentioned in the history books. But then again, we don't know that because going back to the whole thing with Frank and what he may or may have not have known, the fact that he was training Brianna, you know, teaching her how to ride a horse, teaching her how to shoot a gun. At some point, he had to have found mention of her in history in order for him to say, OK, you know what? I need to she goes back in time.

1:08:56 I need to, I need to train her how to do this. Or he had to sing something about Jamie and Claire, something other than the the obituary. Not I know that with the obituary, of course he's figured out OK, Claire goes back to him, but he doesn't even know if Brianna can travel. Right. And I, I totally agree. Side note, when we were on vacation a couple weeks ago, I met a, I'm going to say young lady met a young lady, an old lady who has read, read all the books. And we're talking Outlander. And I, I told her about that, about what did Frank know? It's like that could be a whole episode or book.

1:09:40 And she and I gave her all the points that you just said. And she's like, man, I just never thought about that. And I think I think there may be something that Diana Gabaldon is working on. So she really. Yeah. And she thought about it. She's like, well, that would make perfect sense of why he would train her to like, he knows something now what he knows from the extent and what he kept to himself or what he put things in place for them, We don't know, right. But that would be something that would be a nice little side book that she can write. Yeah, I would read. It I would too 'cause I would want to know.

1:10:22 And maybe that would change. Maybe. What how you feel about Frank? Because what OK, we that's a different that's a different show too. We can talk about how you feel about Frank It. It it is. But I mean non book reader. I understand and care about Frank, and he was actually. He was very sympathetic in the show and the books, not so much. That's what I don't know, the book 1. So the book Frank I feel bad for, I feel sorry for. I feel like he was almost mistreated just to take in the show. Yeah.

1:11:02 Based on things he could not even help. Yeah, that's a whole other, that's a whole, that's a whole different one discussion. And guess what? We should have that discussion. I think we should because especially with me going back and re watching the episodes, there are certain things that I'm looking at. You know, you always, when you always re watch something, you always see something that you didn't see before, no matter how many times you've watched it. I think I've seen season 1 in an in its entirety. This may have been my 6th or 7th viewing, aside from the Wentworth prison episodes, which, you know, which I kind of fast forwarded through, but there's still things that I'm seeing and I'm noticing and I'm like, so yes, we should have that discussion.

1:11:51 Yeah, we should. That's a but going back to to Claire and and Jamie. Yes. So, so Jamie has participated in this battle. Saratoga and he is lying on the battlefield at the end, bloody and who knows, maybe broken, maybe something is messed up. But you are. I was going to say because you know. Claire told him. If you don't come back to me, I'm going to come find you. You know she about to come looking for him. Right. She is. She is so. But with William, I do want to talk about William a little bit because the more and more I see his character, the more and more I'm like, I need him to be part of the Fraser family. Like I need that reveal to come.

1:12:43 Because at first I wasn't sure how I was going to feel about his character, especially given the fact that he's he's very British, OK, He's very much for king and country. He's very much the opposite of Jamie as far as his political beliefs and and what he fights for. But there's so much about him I feel like is Jamie because especially we know that Lord John is a decorated soldier only from what we've heard. Like we've never seen Lord John in battle in this show. He's always, you know, in uniform. He's a higher ranking officer.

1:13:28 He's done his time, he's done his battles. So we don't get to see that from his character, but we've seen, that's almost all we've seen of Jamie since season 1. Jamie is always in a fight. He's always in a battle. He's always fighting for his beliefs. He's always, you know, he's always very, he's a very physical person. And you see William also wanting to embody that as a soldier. Like that's been the one thing about him this season. He's he's wanting to be in the battle. He wants to fight in the war. He wants to fight for his country. And in this one, that Captain Richardson, which again, something is weird about that dude too, because why would you take this soldier who has the pedigree that he has?

1:14:14 You know, William is the son of Lord John Gray. You keep taking him away from the battle to go deliver letters. Really. Like, even after the last time he went to go deliver your letters and he was almost killed, you still want to just send him out. Something about him is not right. But William does stand up for himself. He talks to General Frazier and he's like, hey, I don't think I should be here fighting with the rest of the man. I don't want this little silly job. And I don't know, maybe Richardson is. Maybe Richardson is just trying to keep him safe. Maybe Lord John has said, hey, do whatever you have to do to keep my son from seeing battle.

1:15:01 But I don't think Lord John would do that, especially knowing that something William wants. But William gets his first taste in battle and it is not the way he expected. Just like him killing a man was not what he expected and he had to do that a couple episodes ago. For one, he loses his best friend. Like first shot at the Battle of Saratoga Ghost. Yes, straight through Sandy's head. Yeah. And it's like he's they're sitting there having a conversation, which is interesting because this is the conversation where William actually admits that he has a thing for Rachel. OK, we'll, we'll unpack that later. Because again, we've talked about that. We've talked about that potential love triangle between him, Rachel and Ian.

1:15:52 But again, we haven't really seen William and Rachel interact in the last couple of episodes. But he's sitting there talking to Sandy about it and talks about Rachel. And as soon as the shot goes off, it's like he had to have heard that bullet hit his friend because he turned his head directly and looked at him. And I was like, that bullet could have gone anywhere. Can you imagine being in your first battle and this is the first thing you see? The person standing right next to you who could have easily been. You dies.

1:16:34 So his ideas of battle, is it actually what battle is? Yeah. And unfortunately, that's a hard left, hard lesson for him to learn, but that's he had to learn it in battle. Because you couldn't even sit there and mourn your friend. You're sitting there like in disbelief and in shock, trying to get him to get up. And your general is telling you mind your man like you were supposed to be leading a, a, a battalion group. Go do your job. And that's when he kind of collects himself and he gets up and he joins the battle. Now, again, swordplay is on point. He's doing what he's supposed to do.

1:17:15 And then afterwards, when the other soldiers are trying to, they're digging graves for the fallen, and they're like, oh, it's deep enough. We're going to put them bodies in. No, he was like these people, these men, these soldiers did not die on the battlefield just to be dug up later by the wolves or whatever else is coming out of them. And I think with him having to do that, like you said, he's learning war and battle is not what he thought. Because you, at this point, this is probably the first time he's had to compartmentalize stuff like that. Like you can't grieve, you can't mourn, you can't show. Of course, this is the late 1700s in the British Army. You can't break down, you can't show that kind of weakness. You have to show that oh I can handle this because I asked to be.

1:18:13 Here, right, right. And I just wanted to reach through the TV and just give him a hug and be like, it's going to be OK, William. Yeah, William has to learn some lessons. There's a lot that William needs to learn, and he needs to learn it from his Ted, right? 'Cause I think he's learned everything he's, he probably needs to from Lord John as far as being a proper gentleman as. Right, but he now needs to learn real life. To be honest, he does, because he's a little wet behind the ears. He he really is. He's probably been sheltered and spoiled. Yeah, he has. And he, he just needs to like, he doesn't. 9th Earl of Ellesmere.

1:18:58 Yeah, so he. Yeah. So look, they need to be heavy on that in Season 8, but I need to get a little bit of it in Season 7. Right, so I say we need we, we do need to, but he has to. That's the issue I actually have with William right now. But I understand it like I need William to grow up 'cause like right now, he found he, if he found out that Jamie was his dad, like his reaction would be horrible. It's going to be similar to Brianna's when she found out.

1:19:41 Right, because he is, so he's not worldly. I feel like I need him to be worldly and understand the circumstances of how this came to be so that when just just life, just period life. So when they come to him and say like, actually, this is how you came into this world, you're like, OK, I kind of get it. I'm upset. I'm the typical understanding that this is my father, this is my dad, but this is my real father. All those issues that come in between. But now I feel like it just be like he's like a teenager. He's just. Well, I think technically. I know technically he probably is one.

1:20:22 He's supposed to be. I think I want to say either 18 or 19. Yeah. OK. Well, then, yeah, that's pretty much it. I just need him to get a little whirly, like, not you can even see it. Ian. Ian. Has gone through some things, yeah. But I mean, and he is youngster going and he is young too, but he, he knows about the world. Yeah, 'cause I think when he went through all of that stuff with, well, I mean, getting kidnapped and then what Gaylors put him through, he was only 16 then 15 or 16 then, right? Yeah.

1:21:02 So unfortunately he's had to grow up a lot faster. But again, he's also been, he's also seen more of the world, which I'm not saying that William hasn't, because if you think about it, when Lord John was in Jamaica, Isabel and William were supposed to be on their way. But he saw a different part of the world. Yeah. So he saw the, the pretty coats, the pretty colors. He didn't see what was behind it. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I need him to. And he's getting it now. Especially like, oh, I'm going to be a battle. This is such a great, wonderful thing. And 'cause I'm, you know, I'm fighting for my country, but then you realize, well, yeah, I'm fine for my country, but this shit sucks.

1:21:49 Yeah, like. There's real death and it could be you, it could be your friend next to you, it could can happen at any time, right? On both sides. Everyone is fighting for something, so, and sometimes you're fighting against a relative that you don't even know. Yeah, 'cause then, if you think about it, that means that General Fraser is his relatives. Too, right. Correct. See. So yeah, I just need for. I hope in Part 2 he just kind of, you know, he kind of grows up so that when the revealing happens, we don't have to rush it but he can be angry. Of course he should be angry.

1:22:33 They didn't tell him the truth, but to be kind of understanding in a way and lean towards learning, learning about his sister and having that relationship. And right now, that's not going to happen where William is at this point in time. Right, right. I mean and it's going to be difficult with that. I mean, even just because of the fact that Brianna is not even in that time anymore, right, That's. A whole different way of I don't even know if they get 'cause I don't know that's a good thing about it. I don't know if they get to meet. Yeah. So hopefully that does happen. Yeah. Hopefully it's not a tragedy that he does never find out about Jamie.

1:23:14 Right, 'cause I would hate for him to die in battle. And then Jamie's like, oh, my son. And right when he's died, 'cause then I'm going to be really pissed off. I'm just going to tell you all that right now I I don't think you do know. You don't need you don't need to tell me later. I'm. No, no, no, I wasn't. I'm not even, I'm not even going into book stuff because again, they do change some stuff from the book to the show. I'm just. Saying I'm telling people, so if they film this, they need to go back and film it again. That's not what we're going to do. We're not going to have this boy find out dying on the battlefield and Jamie crying over. No. It's that's not, that's not what's going to happen here. I I don't. Think that they would do that because the amount of outrage they would have no and and I think you know, with you talking about William needing to mature and needing to be a little more worldly, I think that has to happen as far as the reveal of Jamie being his father. He has to know that in order to get to that point, I think. Because right now, like I said, he's the 9th Earl of Ellesmere. He's never had to want for anything. He's, you know, he's had every luxury handed to him. I mean, we don't know much about how he's brought up, but you, you have to believe that Lord John would have made sure that Jamie's son lacked for nothing.

1:24:40 He lacked for nothing and that's his storyline about maturing, so we don't need this love triangle. Nah. We don't. He has his own path that he needs to take that leads him to Jamie. And that goes back to what we said earlier about Jamie is a magnet. He has that force field around him because even his son keeps being. Pulled around him in his vicinity after he thought he would never see his son again. Correct? Yeah. So, OK 'cause in real life he wouldn't keep running into his son like this. Yeah. And I think so. It's interesting because the the casting that they did, of course they're not going to find somebody that looks exactly like Sam Hewitt to play William.

1:25:31 But I think they did get casting pretty good because there are certain facial expressions that that William Charles Vandervar does that does remind you of Jamie. Like he I think he's really studied that character because in the books when they talk about Jamie and and William, Jamie does his best not to ever be in the same vicinity with William because of the fact that William looks so much like him. That is like if if they were 100 feet away from each other in a crowd and one person looked one way and one person looked the other way, they would instantly make the connection.

1:26:13 Does he have dark hair in the books? He has dark hair, but they mentioned that when he was going through the Dismal Swamp and of course, you know, he couldn't shave because he was lost for a few days. His beard comes in copper. Interesting. Mm, hmm. Mm hmm. Because I like that he has dark hair like his, like his mom. Because it was but. Yeah, his beard, his beard comes in a little copperish, a little Auburn. But he, because you know, they, they talk about redhead headed people being like that's, that's the devil's color or something having to do with redhead people. I think Geneva's father. No, not Geneva's father, her fiance when Jamie was there minding the carriage and he was like, good God, I would drown. I would drown a child if I if he ever came out with that color. So the red hair is not anything that seemed favorably. So William usually shaves it off immediately when he has it. And so he does that in the books. But of course we haven't seen it here in the show because they they went through the Dismal Swamp stuff pretty quickly, which is good because it kind of dragged on and. Right, like these battles.

1:27:25 So we need to get we need to, we need to get going. Yeah, so so. Yeah, but I I'm looking forward to more William content because like I said in the book when I started reading him, of course he he does kind of comes off very pompous, very, very British. And he just kind of grows on me in the book. And I'm finding that he's growing on me in the show as well, because we don't, we don't see a lot of the like you do see him being, I don't want to say pompous, but like I said, he's he's being a a proper British gent the way Lord John is.

1:28:06 Lord John can be very, very stiff and very formal. But we know little, I was about to say little John. We know Lord John has a spark of mischievous with within himself. And I think maybe if we see William a little bit more, we'll see that from him before, you know, all hell breaks loose. Yeah. But I'm, I'm, I'm ready for it. I need to see, I need to see the reunion. I need to see whatever the fallout from that reunion is going to be. And then I need to see him and Jamie kind of working their way towards each other.

1:28:50 I need to see what that's going to look like on screen. So. But I need them to not fight each other in battle. But again, like I said, there were two battles of Saratoga. I have a feeling we're going to see the second one, especially since they've been, they've been giving us all of the battles. So, but I mean, they did that too with the, with the Jacobite rising. So we saw press the pans we saw. I forgot there was one other. And then of course, colliding. So yeah, we have what, just a little over a month and 1/2 to go because this is like I said, September 29th is coming back November 22nd.

1:29:34 So it's coming. But now my question is, they just wrapped season 8 yesterday. How long are we going to have to wait to get season? Eight. It literally should be if the next year. This time I hope so, because I mean it honestly should be November. Yeah. Yeah, because we're getting the last part in November and then a year later you wrapped. It's not like this has to be a lot of, I'm sorry, CGI going on. It's not.

1:30:15 Yeah, yeah. I just don't want to. You just have to edit. That's all you have to do. It should not take two years. I hope not. I hope not it for. A year and a half no. Especially if because I don't I don't think they've given us a premiere date for Blood of My Blood yet, but I would hope that they would wrap up Outlander first before going into Blood of My Blood. Right. I mean, I know the two stories are did they, did they finish, finish filming that? I believe they did. Oh, oh Lord, that means yeah, it could be.

1:30:56 AI don't know. I'm not. I'm not sure. That means we will, I know, but that means we will get a prequel first and then we will get the. I don't, I don't know if they would do that. I don't know if they should do that. They. Shouldn't. Because you don't want the, even though I know that people are going to understand that these are two separate stories taking place in two separate time periods. Still, you don't want to mix the stories together, especially since you're talking about Jamie's parents and you're gonna have like a young Dougal, a young column, a young Ellen. I don't think they've cast a young Jacosta in this.

1:31:36 So I I don't know. But yeah, I would hope we would get Season 8 late next year and then probably blood of my blood right after that. That's what that's what I'm a hope. Fingers crossed. Now they want to release Season 8 earlier than November of next year. I wouldn't be mad at that either, especially since we don't know when we're getting book 10. That's true. So I, I, I, I I can't, right. But. Let's see, is there anything else we need to talk about this episode? I like the way that Jim and Mandy were just like, oh, he's the knuckle bee.

1:32:21 He's not that bad. We like him. Brandon was like, how did he get them on his side already? Because Buck is not a bad guy. No, he's not. So that's that's why they. I know. Yeah. So. OK, but yeah, I'm gonna need, I'm gonna need Roger. And even though now I know they have no choice because their son has been kidnapped, taken through the stones, I, but I just, I need them to get their shit together. I need them to be a little more cautious. I need them to be a little more mindful about what they're doing, what they're saying, what they're sharing with people.

1:33:02 And I mean, I, I get the whole thing about I get the whole thing about the friendship with Rob Cameron because you can't stay. You can't be too standoffish. You can't be too protective in that sense. Because if you come back to this time and you only surround yourself with your wife and your husband and your kids and you don't have friends aside from Fiona, you know, then people are going to look at you like, what are you guys hiding? So I can understand that part, but it's just, I need you to be more cautious and more mindful of your surroundings and what's going on and, and paying attention to how people are behaving. Because again, if Buck can see it, they should have been able to see it.

1:33:53 Especially Brianna, you, you're. Claire's daughter? Yeah, you're suspicious. Of. Everybody. But you know what? Let's be honest, though. Was Claire like that when she came home? No. She wasn't even paying attention. Well, let's do show only well, she wasn't even paying attention to the man in the house, whether and maybe the stuff he got going on, or the stuff he knew or did not know, or the stuff he had into play in his study. She wasn't even again.

1:34:34 She was just being blissfully ignorant because. So we're going to tell, we're going to say the same thing for them because again, because where Claire came from, you know, you shouldn't trust people around you either. You never know. But she just you just want to think positive about everyone and everything is good because of what you came from. And that's we're going to say that for them, OK, even though I totally agree with everything you saying, but we're going to give them that. OK, I'm going to try not to be so hard on them. They adapted to the world around them. They don't know stranger danger. OK, I'm a child to be a little nicer, but. However, I'm still with you again. You know the world you're coming from. And even with that, you don't know if you will encounter again other travelers or people who have vengeance because you helped their relative actually die. And you just never know.

1:35:37 And it was a story about this couple that traveled through time. You just really don't know. Yeah. The effect you have on others around you and any travelers you really don't know. Yeah. When the ghost daughter may pop up. Yeah. You just never. You just never know, so you have to be, you have to be aware. And you already had someone sneaking around your house even though it turned out to be your own relative. He just may need to like lock stuff up, right? You tell you telling your son not to talk about it. Y'all need to not write about it. How about that? OK. So that's the.

1:36:18 So that's the other thing that I have the issue as far as the being careless stuff about. So for weeks now your children have been telling you about this Neklavi been telling you that this this person threatened, you know them if they said anything blah blah blah. And you find this man lurking about your house even though you you realize who he is. Why are you sending your kids outside to the camper by themselves at night? Yeah, it's time to get ready to go to bed. Can we watch TV? Yeah, you can go watch a little bit of TV. Go outside to the camper. Yeah.

1:37:00 I don't have no gates around. Lolly. Lolly. Brock, you just found a stranger again I and. And again, I I know 80s people. No it's not even 80s. I feel like that is them. That would have been them at any time period. Also a little too interesting. They are. And the only reason why they still alive is because of Jamie, Ian and Claire. Jamie and Ian would have had a trap set, you see, They would have been like, we've been to find out what's going on, but they just like, oh, the kids pretend. Or maybe somebody's out there.

1:37:45 Maybe go find out parents. Yeah. You're right. You are so right. No, they they, they are like that. OK. We can, we can go back. They are like that and I'm not saying they deserve the things that happened to them, but they are a little bit more trusting. And they should be. The and should be and put themselves in situations that you wouldn't normally put yourself in, right? To be honest, both of them, yeah. OK, I think the only other two things. That they would know because bad things that happened to them. So I'm kind of confused about why, but that's them. I know, I know.

1:38:32 There are only two other things I want to mention about this episode, and they're both very superficial. 1 is I do not like Brianna's 80s hair. I don't like it. I don't like it. The second is I absolutely love Roger in this blue kilt. Get up. He looked good. You hear me? Yes. That's all I have to say about that. Oh, no. Third thing, I would not have thought that a song about witnessing somebody murder somebody would be a good song to Make Love to and for that sex scene.

1:39:17 But in the air tonight, during that scene, I was like, this is a weird Music Choice, but I'm not mad at it. Oh, was it just? Me. I didn't even look at it that way. So now you're going to make me go back? It's just something about the drums and about the the emotion in the song now that I picked up and I but I wasn't thinking about the meaning of the song. Oh, yeah. Because I think that's, that's what that's what the rumor is that the song was about. It was like supposed to be a man who is. Yeah, I heard that rumor, but I wasn't paying attention. I was just listening to the just the music in in them. OK.

1:40:04 All right. I have to do that now. OK. Yep. Mm hmm. OK. So I think we only have one more episode and then we got a couple of weeks and then we will pick up on time with these 7B episodes and get those put out. But for now, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.