Outlander (Season 8 Episode 3) - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #401

0:25 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Dina and we are discussing season 8, episode 3 of Outlander. And unfortunately, Michelle is not joining us tonight, but I'm sure she has some things to say about this episode. So we will get her thoughts on the next recording. But OK, so I'm going to say this. There are some things about this episode I had some issues with. OK, not bad, not bad. There was just some things going on that I was just kind of like looking and I was just like, OK, I, I'm going to have to bring that up. The first thing is, and I think we're all in agreement about this, I need Jamie to get over himself. I, I, I'm, it's, it's really, it's really getting to the point where he's starting to work my nerves about this whole Lord John.

1:23 Yeah, no, I agree. I was. I was going to be one of my main gripes. He definitely. I get it, he holds a grudge. He's a jealous man. I totally understand that. But here's the other thing. Do you honestly think that this woman who thought you were dead and didn't have any hopes of you returning because literally the people who would know you were dead said you were dead? Do you honestly think she would never be with anybody else? I mean let's just be real, when the first time y'all separated, you had a whole lover even though you obviously didn't love that Lady, but you had a whole lover. You had a whole relationship, you know, because you thought you would never see Claire again. Yeah.

2:04 And so death is a little more final than going through the stone, you know what I mean? And so I kind of feel like he's. I think it's because it's John. And you know, I think that too, because I thought the same thing. I'm like, OK, Jamie, so I understand like the two the two times that he didn't, you know, that he had relations while Claire was gone, even though those were not ideal situations. Still, he thought in his mind Claire was dead, right? She's 200 years in the future. He has no way of. I mean, there's no reason for him to think that she would ever come back, you know, especially if she thinks that he died of collide. So you had your one little thing before you went off to Arts Mirror, and then you had your one little thing with Geneva, which, again, neither situation was ideal. Neither situation was even your plan, you know what I'm saying? So I get it.

3:01 But still, it's like she doesn't hold that over you. Yeah. I mean, you have a whole child. Yeah, because of one of those dalliances, right? Oh, let's not forget you marry her arch enemy even though you did it for a benevolent, balevolent person. But this lady literally tried to get Claire killed and she forgave you. I ain't heard her talk about what's her name? Leary. I ain't heard her talk about Leary in 20 years. Right, except for when they went to Scotland and she was like, I mean, and even then she was joking with them. You know, if you really want to know who she's sleeping with all you got, there are other ways for you to find out then going to see him. Like she let it go.

3:42 But again, I think the thing with it being Lord John, and I don't know, maybe I don't think Jamie is jealous in the sense that it was about him, you know what I'm saying? But I think also in a small part it probably is, even though he probably won't acknowledge that cause like Lord John has been in love with him all this time. Exactly like you in love with me but you will see with my wife. Right. Like, oh, you can't have me but you, but you gonna have my wife. Like I'm sure there's a little bit of a different kind of jealousy there for him, even though he's not attracted to John in that way. But still, that's like a big change up. Yeah. And then you think about also like, the only time he probably ever constantly made it anything with a woman or getting it was when he married the sister of Geneva's sister.

4:32 And that was for marriage sake. You know what I mean? He had to pretend. So it's like, you don't even like what you're doing. How is it that this is the time you need to do this thing? And it's like. And that's the thing, like Claire has already explained that to him, and even Lord John explained it to him like it wasn't a love thing. Because you really think that Claire would hop in the bed with somebody weeks or months after Jamie's presumed that she it took her a whole year to get back in bed with Frank. And then after a couple of times, she didn't sleep with him again for 20 years. So it's kind of like, I feel like he's overreacting. And I, I get it. He's a jealous man. He's told her he's a jealous man.

5:13 But also at the same time, it's not a good look and I don't really like the way they're I don't want to say that the show was kind of romanticizing that. I don't think that's it. But the fact that, you know, they have this big this I don't even want to say blow out because really he's the one that's mad Clarence just kind of like I'm so over this at this point. But but to go from all of that and the whole, you know, every time I think about you with him, I want to position it, it comes across very. 1700s evolved so much from that mindset so when he. Got We still have it. And then you have Claire kind of, I don't even know if I want to say rewarding it, but it's like her excuse to making him forget is to seduce him and have sex with him. And I'm just kind of like, yeah, let's not do this. Let's not.

6:09 I just don't want that to be a normal thing, you know? You have to prove her loyalty and love. This woman has gone through the stones to be back with you when she could have just went on with her life if they were her husband. Right. And I came back. She really could. The first time you tried to send her through the stones, she could have left. She could have left. She decided to stay. So not once, but twice she came back for you. That should tell you anything. Everything and she was about to be hung. This man saved her life. And again, Michelle and I talked about this last season. As much as Lord John gives to the Fraser family, Jamie needs to let this go.

7:02 Because he treasures his his friendship with Jamie, like he, Jamie knew what he was about Jamie didn't. He was like, look, I ain't about that, but OK, you, you just be you and we and we can be friends and we can leave it at that. And he treasures that. John really holds him to a high esteem because he could have done anything. He could have dimed him out. He could have killed him for, for wanting for expressing that. And he didn't. And I know John is grateful. I know John really loved Jamie. Like there's no doubt aside from love Jamie, he platonically loves Jamie and so it's a huge thing for John to have them and and they're like he was he's willing to marry Brianna when she was in a spot. You know what I'm saying? He is just always there for them.

7:43 And so my thing is that should definitely override. And he's, he's raising your kid. Yeah. Oh, and yeah. Your. Child. OK, so yeah, I just at this point, it is old. I need Jamie to get over it because again, you know, like the conversation they had later on when she was reading Frank's book, he was like, we went to bed fighting about your third husband and I wake up this morning to see you reading a book from your first husband. She was like, we're lucky for you, I'm only in love with my second husband. Like, period, point blank. That should be the only important thing at this point. That's it. Yeah. It just at this point let it go because it's been at this point, it's been a few years. Yeah, let it go.

8:28 Everybody has moved on aside from him. Right. I mean, the woman almost died. Right. Yeah, and now he's getting Frank's book kind of. I think it also has something to do with him reading Frank's book and kind of having Frank like heavily in his life right now. Also that's probably got him because he also was still hearing Frank talking throughout this episode again, which I'm like Oh my God. OK, so, so here's the other thing. And I didn't even think about this. I happen to, you know, I try to, I try to stay away from discussions about the episode until we've discussed it because I don't want anybody else's thoughts to kind of bleed into mine. But I saw something. I came across something on social media and I saw it and I was like, Oh my God, that makes so much sense.

9:12 I don't even remember where I saw it, but somebody was saying that what they don't like about the whole voice over thing with Jamie is how would Jamie know what Frank sounds? Like sounds like. Yeah, yeah. And I get it that he's hearing it and I, I feel like he's hearing it and Blackjack Randall's voice because of the fact that Blackjack Randall looks so much like him. But it is one of those things where it's kind of like, yeah, that wouldn't make sense. Yeah, it wouldn't. But. But again, like I said, I feel like I feel like, yes, he's hearing it in Blackjack's voice and this just kind of this torturous thing and then going to the conversation that he and Claire have after that when they're trying to determine, like, what was the whole purpose of Frank writing this book? Did he mean for Claire to read it when she was alive or when he was alive, you know, when she was still there so that she could see?

10:14 And I don't know if I feel like Frank would be. That cruel. Yeah, that because for him to to sit there, write that book and do all of that and then be like, oh, here for her to see that all that time Jamie was alive, Frank knew Jamie was alive and just it just I mean, it does kind of explain a lot of his behavior towards Claire and how he acted towards her. But at the same time, it's kind of like Bill, you could, you could have had your happily ever after with Sandy. You could have let Claire go.

10:54 But of course, that would have meant losing Brianna. And I know he didn't want to do that. But still, at the same time, Frankie really had no right, You know, I understand you loved Claire. I understand your love for her never changed even though hers did. I understand you love Brianna. But even with that, Brianna was not biologically your daughter. If there was a chance for her to go back to meet her dad, would it be with her dad? You could have had maybe at that point, that's when y'all talked to Brianna and said, OK, look, I know this is a weird situation, but let me tell you about your real father. And then maybe when she got older, let her decide what she wanted to do.

11:34 I mean, there was so many, so many other ways that they could have that Frank could have handled that. But thinking about what Claire said, it's kind of like now you don't know what's real. You don't know what what's not real is this stuff that Frank actually found out. I mean, the fact that Jamie has already met one of the guys that Frank talks about kind of leans towards, OK, Frank. Frank knew some stuff. But at the same time, it's kind of like he doesn't mention Claire in the book. Of course, he he never mentioned any of this to Claire when they were together. And then in the show, they really don't put the information from the books that Frank knew Jamie was alive because in the books, book spoiler for anybody who probably hasn't heard us talk about this before and the books the whole way that clarifies out that Jamie survived colliding is because she goes back to the Abbey where she gave birth to Faith. She goes back to the to that church and she's in the graveyard and she sees a grave marker with Jamie's name on it. And she was like, no, not not the same ad because that was in France.

12:53 She was in Scotland. She went to a church, but she saw his grave and she was like, what the fuck are you doing here? You supposed to be on Collada, you know, on Collada field. That's how she realized. And then later on, in a letter that between Frank and the Reverend Roger's father, Roger finds out that Frank knew about it because Frank was the one who put the grave marker up. See, I don't even remember that. That's been so long since I've written. That was in, I think that they talked about that in Fiery Cross. So you may not, you may not have gotten to that yet if you're not at book 5. OK, yeah, yeah, OK.

13:35 Then that's, that's yeah, 'cause I think I stopped at 4:00. Yeah. So it's kind of when they went. To the Caribbean, right? No, this was this was after everything that happened with Claire and they were getting ready to do Rodger and Brianna's actual wedding. This was like a year after the the other hand fasting. They were about to do the actual ceremony, and he and Jamie had gone off to the side to talk, and Rodger showed him a letter that he brought with him that Frank and his father had written back and forth. And Frank said something about this grave, But they don't really hit in the show up until this point that Frank knew that Jamie was alive.

14:20 You know, So it's kind of like one of those things where is he saying this stuff just because he wanted to get under Claire's skin? Is he doing it out of bitterness? Because like Jamie said, Jamie was like, would he carry that kind of hate? She was like, wouldn't you? I mean, think about it, you're mad because of a marriage she had with Lower John for, as she said, a few weeks. I think in the book it was actually a few months, but still less than a year, less than half a year and you are holding this much anger. Imagine your wife goes through some stones, she disappears for two years. She comes back, she's pregnant by another man. She's still in love with another man. And I'm, I'm sure when Claire told Frank the whole story, I'm sure she also told him that at one point Jamie tried to send her back and she chose to stay because Claire doesn't even in this episode, she promised Jamie honesty. She did the same with Frank.

15:22 Claire never held anything back and she didn't lie, Right? Right. So yeah, I'm sure Frank was in his feelings. I'm sure Frank did a lot of things that were probably very petty, very messy, very cruel. And now it's kind of like, So what do we do? We believe what he wrote or do we try to like, are we really trying to change history if we don't know for sure this is what happens? But I'm. Glad they discussed it though. But they, they had the presence of mind to be like, OK, let's consider these options because like obviously we did after we saw that he got, he got the book and he mentioned him 1314 times. They're like something untoward here. Somebody had the presence of mind to discuss. That, but also I think that they were able to do that as well because I mean, for a lot of reasons, Jamie can't really be mad at Frank.

16:23 Frank was there first. Frank has done nothing wrong and that in regards to who should be with Claire and who has. Yeah, and Frank was first again, reiterating what I said the last time. If it wasn't for Frank and Claire's being married and going on holiday, he wouldn't have Claire to begin with. It's crazy when you think about though, they only had basically like what, 8 days of marriage or something like that? And then she goes off to the Highlands and finds a new man. Oh yeah, So technically her and Frank's relationship wasn't even a relationship, No. She was probably technically married to Frank less for less amount of time than she was to Lord John.

17:08 Oh, man. If you think about it, she spent less time with him. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, they probably, who knows how long they were actually, like together together before that. But you know, engagements and courtships didn't last long back then for a lot of people. You met, courted and got married all within a month. Via letter and you know, like Julian and Henry. Right. So, but the other thing about that that I actually did like. So the reason why they get into this whole thing about Laura John is because he has written a letter to Claire about Brianna. He wants Brianna to come and paint a portrait of Amaranthus and Trevor.

18:01 Now, the only thing that kind of bothered me about that is how does Laura John know that Brianna is there? Because the last time he saw Brianna, she and Rodger were getting ready to go to Boston. This was before they went through the stones. But how long are they like? How long? What's the time like period can't be that long, right? Like for them to have sent them a letter or something like it can't be. But see they why would they? Because Jamie. Jamie is not speaking to Lord John. William isn't really having anything to do with Jamie at this point. So unless Claire maybe wrote to William and said, hey, you know, here's how Fanny how Fanny is doing. By the way, Brianna's here.

18:42 But but again, at the time that William and Brianna met, he didn't know Brianna was his sister. So Claire probably wouldn't think to say, hey, Breanna's back. But also at the same time, she didn't even know that they were in Savannah. So it just that continuity is kind of weird for me because how does Lord John know that Breanna is back in Fraser's Ridge? So but so when they're having that conversation and Brianna was like, so why is Lord John writing to you and not to die? Not to die. And Claire's like, yeah, they kind of not speaking to each other. Oh, well, why not? She said, well, because when I thought Jamie was dead, I married.

19:24 And Brianna's, like, what she was like, well, you know, I was about to be arrested as a spy, blah, blah, blah, blah. Brando's like, OK, Well, I don't understand why he's mad. It's not like you slept with him. And then when Claire? Since she gave. Those that little, yeah. The little eyes looking to the left like. And Brianna was like, how am I going to look Lord John in the face now? Do I have to call him that? Clearly like you do that shit so. I'm surprised she said that out loud, to be honest, because you never know what Jamie anywhere. Yeah, like, I don't know. But the thing that I liked about that, but also what made me sad, it makes you realize how isolated Claire is because the fact that she that she could only have that conversation with her daughter because she doesn't have any close girlfriends around.

20:17 She doesn't have anyone else aside from Jamie that she can confide in. And of course you can't talk to him about that. Right. But you also, back in them days, you couldn't tell a woman now, honestly, because they would judge you. They would judge you. You didn't stay in black and mourn your husband for seven years. Something crazy, you know, Like they wouldn't judge her. Yeah, but I mean it was either get married or die. Or right, right. I mean, but you know, like still they didn't care back in the days everything was a woman fault. No matter what it was, it's always. I know you know, but yeah, that's definitely have me laughing so hard. So I I like the way that they're doing it because that means that some of the characters from the book have kind of been cut out in order to kind of, I guess, quickly facilitate Brianna's story and William Store, because they are going to meet this season. I don't think that's I don't think it's much of A spoiler to say that you can't have William find out that she's a sister and then they not interact with.

21:22 So, yeah, because I think in the, I think in the books, there was someone else, there was like a, a British officer's daughter that she was going to do the portrait for Continental officer daughter, somebody, it was somebody else that didn't have to do with Amaranthus and and Trevor. But like I said, they're, they're cutting out all the, the middle man and stuff like that. So I'm that part I'm really looking forward to because I really want to see Brianna and William meet properly and I want to see how they're going to develop that relationship and the show, because in the books is starting to develop pretty nicely.

22:09 And then if you've read what I know you haven't because you haven't gotten that far in the books yet, but Diana Gabaldon, she posts snippets from book 10 and a few of her snippets have involved Brianna and William. And I'm like, if this is what we're getting just in the snippets, I, I can't wait to read that book because I really want to see that relationship develop. You know, William just got it. He, he got to come to terms with the fact that he got more than one family. He's just going to. Have to go, yeah. But Speaking of William, we've got a lot going on in this episode, too. Yeah, I just, I, you know what, as much as you get on my nerves, sometimes I feel so bad for him because he really wants his cousin to be still alive and he's and it sucks when you're, you have a strong feeling towards something and then you have, you're telling your people and your people are like you're just, you're, you're just thinking, you're just, you know, they disregard your feelings or how you think.

23:09 So, you know, and I'm not saying that Laura John should just stoke the fire and be like, yeah, keep investigating. But like, God, he just give him a little support. The man is at least up out of the room. He, he he not drinking if you want something constructive. So like I just, yeah, I feel bad for him because I know he clearly loved his cousin and he wants answers. He wants the answers, you know, enough to travel the way he's travelled to, just to, to the enemy to get information, you know. Right. He's like, OK, yeah. I just need to get this information, you know, and the things that he's found as far as, like, he found a, you know, different body in Ben's grave.

23:51 And I understand what Lord John is saying. It's just as likely that Ben was buried in someone else's grave by accident. Like, let's be honest, to the British officers, these are all prisoners. Or to the Continental Army, these are all prisoners. They're all British officers. They don't care about them. Just like the way this, this dude who keeps coming up on Jamie's property, he don't care about the enemy. He's just like, oh, OK, y'all British folks, we going to hang out, We going to shoot them. I'm going to shoot y'all. Whatever. No. Questions. No questions asked. But I think it's very interesting what he does find, you know, when he's bringing the the Ben's items to Amaranthus.

24:38 And Amaranthus has all of Ben's things in the drawer. And he does find a little tin soldier. And she says, yeah, Ben wanted me to give it to the baby when he was, you know, when he was born. I was like, something about that seems weird because here you are, you're going on a raiding party and you're not expecting to come back. You're going to give a toy to the baby. You literally can't. Like he's not going to play with that toys. He's what, 5 or 6? And I don't even think it's AI, don't even know if it's about that. I, I think he was trying to pass it along because it was a, a family thing or it was a like a symbol of brotherhood because like even when William is telling Lord John about and Lord John is like, OK, so you think he's alive because he didn't take your toy soldier with him And he was like, no, I knew you wouldn't understand. I think it was more so it it symbolizes their bond as cousins and as brothers because William says that Henry and Ben were like more like brothers to him and cousins. So I can understand Ben wanting to leave that behind for Trevor. But again, you're assuming that you're not going to come back. Yeah.

25:54 I mean, I guess in any. Case it's war You you probably always assume that you there's a possibility, I guess, but I don't know, it just felt weird because she was she just had an answer like right away. Oh yeah, yeah. Because I don't trust her. So everything she says to me sounds like it's something fabricated. And so I'm like, when she said that, I was like, when when he was born, she wanted, he wanted me to give him this toy. And I'm like, I don't think so. It depends on it depends on what what way they're going in the show as far as the book, because, because there is something, if you listen to a conversation, if you listen to the conversation that Ben had with William when they when he gave him the soul, the soldier, and then you think about what Amarantha said.

26:42 I was like, oh, wait, something about that doesn't add up. And I don't want to say what it is because then. I'm gonna go back and watch it because I I I yeah, No, I'm gonna go back and it'll be in spoilery territory. OK, OK. I'm gonna go back and look at it then because I'm like, I don't know. This girl just does not settle well with me. I just. I don't know. Yeah. Because it's just this show breeds like people who are untrustworthy, as we find out. Yeah, yeah, especially when you sit here more, which I get it, it's been almost a year at this point. You're mourning your husband, but then you're kissing his cousin. Making eyes, making clothes.

27:24 And I know Michelle going to have some things to say about that because she said I don't want him to fall for her. I want him to find somebody that's his own. That. He can fall for. So I don't know where that relationship is going to go because I think even in the book is kind of, it's kind of unclear at this point. But there's a lot more, there's a lot more stuff that happens that I'm sure they'll get to in this in this season. But I did see something on Facebook yesterday. So a lot of times when Diana Gabaldon post things about the show, sometimes you always get people in her comments coming in talking about how old they've messed the show up. It's not like the books, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And certain things, which again, I get if your book purist, there's some things about the show that's not going to sit right with you because they've changed some things. They've let's left some things out, you know, to make the story float better on the show.

28:22 But she did make a comment on a post recently that I saw because somebody was talking about how they were going to end the show. And she's given an interview that I saw earlier. And she said she thinks that the show ended on a really good note and that the fans will be pleased. OK. But she also said that they are ending the show with book 9 because she has not given them anything about book 10. Like there there are a couple of pieces here and there that don't have a significant impact on the story. But she said other than that, they they don't have book 10, so they can't include anything from book 10 because they don't have it.

29:05 So the show has to come up with their own ending, which again, I'm, I'm great. I'm I'm OK with because I wouldn't want them to get into book 10 story before I've read book 10. You know, like, again, going back to what I said a couple of episodes ago, why would you give the book ending away and the book hasn't come out yet? Because then you're not giving anybody any. Well, not anybody, but you're not giving like say the show, only people who may be waiting for the show to be over before they start reading the books. If you give them the whole no story, what incentive are they going to have to go and read it? You know, I'm a go read it because I'm a fan of the books as well as the show, and I know how to separate them too, you know. So yeah, I just, it's, it's going to be interesting to see where they go with William and Amaranthus in the storyline, because I, if they're going in the direction I think they're going, it's going to get very interesting within the next, I would say episode or two.

30:10 But then you also have the other stuff that's kind of pulling in. You know, William and John are at this dinner and William is going to sit next to him. And who comes and sit next to to Lord John, but Percy his his former stepbrother and I was like, this dude is mighty bowl grabbing his leg in the middle of lunch whenever and and lower John is not subtle at all. He's just like, dude, I'm, I'm in like. Weren't you a spy on top of each other? So how are they? How are they having this conversation? It's literally somebody on the side of him, people in front of them. Well, they're having their own conversations and I'm sure they know how to whisper, but still. This.

30:51 Comedy. I would have been like. But I don't think so. The conversation that they're having isn't anything that I think will perk anybody's ears up. Because Percy comes to Lord John because he's like, hey, I need you to put me in touch with someone who I'm looking to get in touch with a Claudel Fergus Fraser. And Lord John is like, who is that? Oh, well, you know, he was born in a brothel. He was rescued from said brothel by a tall Scott, redheaded Scott. And purse is sitting there looking at John like, I know you're tight, but he's like, I, you know, I think they're related. I, I don't need you to betray your friend. I just need you to get this Claudel Fraser to get in touch with me because I have something that might be a bone to him. Now, I don't know if you know about what this is about, but I'm going to tell you now.

31:47 If they do what they do in the books, you're going to be like, what the fuck? Oh yeah, I definitely don't. But we can. We can get. Spoiled. We can spoil it after we record. OK. I was like, why does he want Fergus? Is he going best with him because he's printing seditious material? Like what's happening here? This guy is kind of skeevy. So I was like, what does he want Fergus for? It's a little more interesting than that. OK, OK, I got some ideas that just popped in my head though. OK. I can. I can almost guarantee you anything that you're thinking of. Nope, because when I when I found out about it, when I heard about it, because I had heard rumors based on one of the one of the short stories, one of her side stories, the novellas. And I was like, then when I read it in the book, I was like, Oh my God.

32:43 So yeah, it's crazy. We'll talk about it afterwards. But the the other thing is when Percy brings Lord John into this and he was like, Hey, I just I just need you to do this favor with me for me. And Lord John is like, OK, you did me. You did me a solid by saving Williams life. You know, telling me about that. So I'll I'll help you. I'm not going to promise anything, but I will do it. But I still need you to do me a favor. And it's that they want to find Captain Richardson, because again, he was a turncoat. He tried to send William to his death. So in in addition to all of this stuff that William is dealing with, he also has to deal with the fact that somebody that he trusted tried to have him killed.

33:26 Which is so messed. Up, which is so messed up, but they're like Richardson has seemingly disappeared into thin air. We haven't been able to find him now. Do you recall seeing a Captain Richardson last season? I don't remember, I'm so bad about remembering certain details. I'm going to bring it up because it's because it's, if you look at it closely and we've just Michelle and I discussed this. So you remember in the 1980s when Brianna was escaping with her children from Lally Brock because Rob Cameron's friend had it surrounded and someone was trying to pull her out the van and she closed the van door and the guy fell that he took his mask, his took his mask off. That was Captain Richardson.

34:23 OK, so yeah, and see, that's the thing, because I split up the season and then I didn't finish for a long time and then I had to bend so I could catch up, so I could be, you know, I didn't give any like that detail I missed because I hadn't washed up at the beginning. Michelle didn't catch it either. I own the only reason why I even caught it was because of the fact that I had literally just read it in the books because I prepped for Dragon Con last year and I read the last. I read the the last three books like within a two week time span. I don't even think it took me two weeks because written in my own heart's blood book AI literally read that in 24 hours. I did not put that book down.

35:08 Oh. My. God, so I was, I was familiar with the fact that he was a time traveler as well. They still don't go into a whole bunch with him, but you do kind of find out why he was, why he was aiming for William, why he was trying to, you know, threaten William. And it it, it comes into a whole other thing that they may or may not touch upon in this season. I'll leave it alone. But yeah, Richardson, probably after doing what he did to William, he probably took a hike and was like, OK, I need to go regroup. I need to go do something right. Which is crazy.

35:49 So them thinking that because Jim told Cameron about the gold that that was the only reason. We're really sounds like Richardson had a little hand in that. Could, could be. Yeah, OK. Could be because I I'm going to assume that at least for the show, because again, they don't really talk about his background and why he's going back and forth. If that's the case, I'm going to assume that with the show, if he knew who William was when he sent him to his death. Not only just that he's Lord John Gray's son.

36:29 If he already knows about Brianna and the Scottish gold and has figured out that William is Brianna's brother, that might have had something to do with why he did that as well. But I'm not sure because again, nobody really nobody really knows about Williams relationship to Jamie and Brianna. But according to the books he favors Jamie a lot. Like if you put them in the same room together people figure it out. Like in the book, Fanny figured it out. A couple other people who have been around them, they kind of figured it out. They were like, yeah, it's kind of obvious that that's his, that that's your dad. Yeah. So so they may, they may do that. It it'll be interesting to see how they do it. But yeah, first he says he's going to help them find Richardson.

37:21 I don't know how that's going to happen. Well, I mean, he clearly got some, some somebody that he can he he got connections something, something. Yeah, he, he, he, he and he he stayed in the right spaces. How has he not been like out? He always got somebody. Here, because what did he say? He worked. For and when they saw each other. Lafayette. Yeah. And when John was like, so I take it you're not working for him? He switched back to that French accent so fast. He was like, hey, I can be loyal to them, but I could not. You'll never know. I was like, you know what? This dude here, I tell you, Lord John, he just, I don't know what it is.

38:11 It's like he he, he can't never make a safe choice, can he? Well, you know, but I I will say he definitely was. He was young with this one. It ain't like with Jamie. Yeah, he was young. Technically speaking, he was young with Jamie too. He was. He was in his. He was in his 20s. Yeah, but wasn't he like, didn't him and the stepbrother like they were just like teenagers, right? Like when they're. Probably so. Probably so yeah. And he keeps saying former stepbrother. So I don't know if I can't remember in the books if the relationship happened while they were in the same house or what, or after.

38:52 I I don't remember. But not that it not that it matters back then because I mean, people were marrying cousins back then. So step brothers, it's hard to well, OK, step siblings, let me say, step siblings would hardly be scandalous. Step brothers is a whole different thing entirely because of the time period. But yeah, so the thing with with Fergus is going to get interesting. Because I was like, when they're bringing Ferguson, Marsley back. Yeah, next episode. OK. Yeah, next episode. Did you see the preview for the next episode? No. I did, but then I just.

39:33 I did. I must have seen him. I think I did see him in the next episode. OK, yeah, yeah, maybe I did. I just. So yeah, that's why I was like that one might need to be a we need to watch it together and do a reaction video because if they're going the direction that I'm that I think they're going, yeah, we might, yeah, we might need to do a reaction video for that. We haven't done a reaction video in a while so that might be the one, but. All right, let's, let's move on because we got to talk about Claire and and this this birth. Oh yeah, that's I pause it on that because I was like, oh, I was in tears, girl.

40:22 I was. I was like, oh Lord. OK, this whole scene was just. So so Claire is approached by young black girl while she's out gardening and little girl introduces herself. She's looking for the healer because her mom is, you know, pregnant and having some issues. Claire brings the mom and her, I don't know, I can't remember if it was her sister or her midwife, but. She was, yeah, she was her midwife because she said that, that she had delivered many babies, but for some reason she can't get this one to work. Yeah. So Claire brings them back to the house. Turns out the lady Susanna is pregnant with twins and the twins are kind of holding on to each other in the womb, which is why her labor isn't progressing. So then the husband comes looking for them and he basically is like, I don't trust no white man. I'm not about to trust my wife to no white healer. Look, I'm a free man.

41:22 My wife is a free woman here raising our kids free. Y'all not about to get me in trouble. And Jamie's like dude, we we don't want nothing to do with that. I won't even tell anybody you were here. Just let my wife help your wife. So they go through all this. The Susanna has the first baby, a little boy, he's healthy, he's OK. The second baby comes and she's breech. And immediately when Claire brings that baby out, you know that there's something wrong. Yep. No cries, no cries. The look that she gives to Ben, to the the midwife, it's just all of a sudden, you know that there's something wrong. So I was like, OK, this is about to, this is about to be a faith tie in.

42:04 I I really felt that at that point. So Claire takes the baby over to the side. She tries to, you know, she tries to warm the baby up. She tries to give the baby CPR. And Jamie is in the room at that time because he was bringing supplies. And he sees and he tries to tell Claire, hey, the baby is gone, that there's nothing you can do, you know, let me have the baby. And Claire's like, no, I can't. So you start seeing these kind of flashbacks from when she was in childbirth with Faith. You see the, the little, the bird with the blue light and you hear her talking about the blue light and Master Raymond and all this other stuff. And they, they show a close up of her hand. She's on, she has her hand on the baby's chest and you hear like a faint heartbeat.

42:50 Now, the thing I don't like is they kind of transposed it with Faith. And I was like, Faith was very obviously dead when we saw her. So they, you know, they're, they were basically showing Claire's heartbeat. You can see her veins kind of pumping. You can see the veins in her neck pumping. And apparently something happens with her to where this baby starts crying. The baby is actually alive, starts breathing, crying. Jamie takes the baby over, gives it to her mom. They have a conversation afterwards cause Jamie was like look I know that baby ain't supposed to be a lie. You know. Jamie is sitting there thinking OK Claire I didn't ask you before if you was a witch right? So you know how you bring the babies back from the dead and the CPR didn't work?

43:40 The CPR didn't work, So what did? Yeah, right. What did you do 'cause that baby should not be here? Yeah. He was like, look, I know you're a miracle work. I've seen you do things that nobody else can do, but there's a little something different. This is different. You know, that baby was dead. That baby had a little. Like like vibration or something when you could tell when right when the whatever that life force was, it went back into the baby. You can see the. Vibration of it. Oh, she's like, oh, boy, yeah, it was interesting. But then she starts telling him about the. The only other time she experienced that was when she was, you know, after Faith. She was like, after she was dead, I was dying.

44:23 Master Raymond came to see me and he put his hands on me and it's almost like he healed me with just his hands. She was like, I saw a blue light and I it's almost like I felt the sickness leaving my body. I felt the same thing with this too. And of course, in the books, they kind of elaborate on this whole thing a little bit more because also in the books, what we didn't see in the show, when Rodger and Buck go back to the 1730s and they're going to Galis, because of whatever's going on with Buck's heart, she's able to help him the first time, but he continues to have heart issues the time the whole time that they are there.

45:08 And at one point she has to call another healer to come and help him. And that healer is Master Raymond, and Master Raymond is able to help him in there. There's like something about a blue light that when he touches people, he can heal them. OK, so that's what Claire's making Speaking of in this because she keeps saying that there's a you know, Master Raymond says there's an armor about people and you have you have a blue light. And then they also show us at the beginning of the episode when they do the previously on they went all the way back to season. I don't remember what season was four or five. When she was speaking with out of way he and out of way he told her that when your hair turns white as the snow, you will come into your full power.

46:03 And something about the power of I can't remember exactly what her phrasing was, but Claire, you know, she's thinking about that. And then she takes her hair wrap off and she asked Jamie what color her hair is and she has a white streak of hair. So I was like prevalent, like Rogue from X-Men. Right, right, right. So I was like, OK, so now I feel like they are getting into more of the magic of the story because you don't see a lot of it in the story. A lot of the story is focused on the real, the tangible. But of course the stones have to have some kind of magic to them for them to be able to go back and forth through time. So I don't know what this is going to be with Claire. Obviously she has something about her. And you know, one of the things about Claire when she's when, when you hear her inner dialogue in the books and she's talking about healing people and her her becoming a surgeon, there's something about the way that she sees bodies. And it's like.

47:16 That she can actually, it's almost as if she can look straight into the body and see what it is that she's doing. She just has that kind of connection. And of course, I don't know how they would, how they would translate that to the show, because it would it would just seem a little too, I think it would seem a little too too magicy. Yeah, too hokey. Pokey. I don't know. But that it it's clearly explained in the book. This is one of the reasons why she's one of the best surgeons, is one of the reasons why she can do the things that she can do because she actually feels connected to the body.

47:59 You know, even when when Joe Abernathy had what we later find out are gave us his bones and Claire's like, oh, somebody sent you the 150 year old murder victim and Joe was like, how the hell did you know? She was like, I don't know. Something about her felt like it. Yeah, I get connected. But yeah, so she's got the white streak. So I'm sure that's also about to come into play because here you are, you hit, you're you're bringing babies back from the dead. You're you, you're known to be a good healer. And there's a war about to come. So I have a feeling she's about to be using that blue light. Whatever.

48:44 Whatever it is you got going. On yeah, it's funny because Mayfair, which is the The Witching Hour, came out like the year before Outlander. And that's like Rowan's thing, that's the power Rowan has where she can see a thing happening. And that's how unfortunately to kill people is because she can see the inner workings of the of the body. So it's interesting that she wrote this or where, you know, later on where Claire actually is going to probably have this same kind of gift. Yeah, yeah. OK. So I guess the last thing we need to talk about is this Captain Cunningham dude.

49:27 I'm so glad Jamie has a brain because Oh my God. Listen, listen. First of all, let's start at the top of the episode when these two soldiers are approaching Fanny, because she's clearly a little girl. A child, a whole child a whole. Child, how are you talking to her? Like, yeah, you don't look like you belong here. You look like you're kind of an adventurous yourself. Don't you want to come with me in my travels? And she was like hell to the no. Absolutely not. Hell and. She got a little mouth on her too. I like her. But you know what? I'm glad she does. Yes, I'm glad that she feels like she can be comfortable enough to say that because she now has people who will protect her.

50:16 Because Brianna was about to be like, oh, let me go speak to them. She's like, Nope, let's just go. Let's just go. Because if Brianna would have went open her mouth. She probably was. She probably. Also was immediately reminded of Janie, and she didn't want somebody else to die on her behalf. And so she's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, we don't need that, you know? But it's the fact that Brianna was just like, I'm going to handle this, you know, that's her modern attitude because, you know, women typically weren't like Janie where they would just go, do you know, that kind of thing. So. Yeah, but I mean. Claire. Claire would have. Claire would have been like that too if she had been there. She'd been like, excuse me, excuse me, I need you to back away from this little child, right?

51:01 But when Jamie goes. To talk to Cunningham about that, not only about that, but he was like, yeah, so you had soldiers coming to visit you and his whole thing. Was Oh yeah, they were just bringing. Me some of my son's effects and blah blah blah. And Jamie was like, look, one of the things we like about the Ridge is that the war is far away from here. You said that's what you like too. And I, I, I want to keep it that way, right. And you know, Cunningham does a good show of yes, yes, yes, yes, I understand, yes da, da, da, da, da. But when you that much of A yes man, something, something's not right. Yeah, something's not right.

51:44 And. You know, he, he just. He gives off he just gives off a little sneaky weird. And I I knew something was, yeah, gonna happen, but I just, man, come on. Yeah. What what do they think they're going to do? Take. Over the back country and that's. Going to give them the war. Like, is that what they thought the British? I don't know that so. That so that probably is what they. Thought, or what they're thinking, and I will say this, you know, Jamie and Claire were gone for what, almost three years? Really? I think it was almost. Three years. Two years. Three years, but when you're gone for that amount of time, and I don't know how often they were corresponding with people on the Ridge because, you know, they kind of had a lot going on while they were gone, but. You know when you.

52:39 When you're gone for that long, you do allow for other people to come in and kind of take charge, take over, yeah. And. Yeah, you probably do still. Have your loyal. Men, your arts mirror men who were there. But as we saw from when they first came back, you know, the first episode, the Ridge has grown quite a bit in their absence. So everybody. Is not going to be. Loyal to Jamie, because most of them probably don't even know who he is, you know, at least until they came back to the Ridge. He was probably like a mythical figure to them, you know, but I don't know what.

53:21 Cunningham was thinking because these. Same two soldiers later on are killed by what was the other guy's name? Henderson, I think, yes. I think it's AC actually, but I can't, OK. I don't remember but the guy. The guy who came to Jamie last weekend was all. I think it's Campbell. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it might. Be Campbell so. He kills those two while Jamie is out with with Fanny and he's like, yeah, these two were sneaking guns onto your, you know, onto your property. If you going to be a punk and not, you know, regulate stuff, then I'll take care of it. He was like you just in time to help me string them up and Jamie's like, no, we're not doing that.

54:05 I told you I would handle what's going on on my laugh, but I hate to say. It you know. They weren't wrong. He wasn't wrong and and Jamie I. Think Jamie is going to have to let some of this pride go? Yeah. Because also he does. Not have the. He does not have the. The sway that he had right before he left. Yeah, and and not only that, but like, even if you don't want to be cruel and hang people, you need some you need to like announce like hey, I know some of y'all have come since we've been gone, but I need to reiterate that this is my land and these is this is how I want things to go because it is clear that they have moved on. They don't move Cunningham in.

54:53 He got a whole store or trading post. Like all this stuff has changed. And then these guys are like, I'm going to take these weapons. So they're like, fine, if you you don't want to shrink them up, but I'm taking these weapons like everybody got their own agenda. You don't have any power right now. And yeah, he's going to get off your land right now, but that don't mean later that he going to be willing to get off your land. You know, especially he got a whole grain of weapons now. A whole. Crain of weapons, which is something that Brianna. And them were just, well, that's what we didn't talk about. I was just about to say that too, that Brianna was just telling. You we need to figure. Out how to get weapons and here they are and yeah yeah, but he's going to have to. Reconsider that now, because that whole conversation about Lord John Grant is like, yeah, we can go to Savannah. And if, if daddy's book is really talking about war is going to come to the Backcountry, we're going to need guns.

55:47 We're going to have to go to Savannah. And he's like, well, how you going to pay for it? How you going, how you going to even get there? The guest of Lord John? So how you going to pay for it? Well. We can use the the. The gold, you know, she said. We were almost killed for we might as well use it to protect and like what are y'all doing with it? It's just sitting in a cave right now. Yeah, what are y'all doing with it, right? And I mean I I think this. Is really going to make him reconsider that because again, somebody who is probably going to become an enemy to you because you're not going to team up with them. The guy already came onto your property, made his choices very clear, and he's not the type of person that you that you break bread with, right? So you've already made an enemy.

56:35 That enemy just rolled off with a whole cart of guns that were supposed to go to somebody else living on your land after doing something that you told him expressly. You, you don't. That's not what you want on your land right? So he gives 0 zero fucks right? So yeah, James is going to. Have to change his mind. About a lot of stuff, because as much as he wants to stay out of war, as much as he wants to say I'm not going to have any part of this, obviously he is. And Frank's book also tells him, yeah, you're going to be a big part of this. He just might as well look, take take the information that you've been given and start preparing. Granted, you don't have to prepare to die. Because you you can.

57:21 Still fight that, right? But still you, you need to start preparing because obviously this is not going to be as peaceful a retirement as you want it to be. Yeah. And then you. You know, he gets to he gets there and realizes because he searches the guys and he realizes there's a missive in in his boot. And so now you find out a whole nother thing then is going on. And so you're like, OK, let's go check out Cunningham again, because I feel like he don't lie to me. Well, obviously, obviously. And that right there I was like, OK, Jamie, I'm glad you you went to you went and got educated when you was young. And so you really do have a good brain. I mean, also think about it.

58:05 This is the. Kind of stuff he was doing in Paris, right? So. So he knows what to look. For and I think. I think part of that was Kim, like he had misgivings about Cunningham, but I think Jamie is has gotten to that point in life where he's trying to think better of people, right? But. Cunningham just. Proved to you, you need to stick to your instincts. And I hate to say. It y'all keep fucking around, y'all about to bring Red Jamie back out and that ain't what you want let's go. That ain't what you need to come out, honestly, because. You got people to protect.

58:47 Yeah. You know he need to come out. Because. And, and just based on what I saw the parts, because I I sparsely remember what the trailer went up for next week. And just based on what I saw, I'm like, bro, you need to, you need to, you need to come out swinging. Yeah. And yeah, I mean like. When he initially. Got like weirded out about him being a British officer or captain or whatever. That that right there should have stayed like, no, he should have never put his guard down. Yeah. He should have been on him for, you know, for that time on. He should have been watching his every move. Yeah, you know.

59:29 Yeah, but. You know, I think. I think the other thing is that most men don't have the code of honor that Jamie has because even last week's episode when they held lodge, he was basically like, look, we don't leave politics out of this, You know, we, we are here as brothers. We're going to be supportive of each other, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Other people aren't thinking that way. Yeah, You know, they're like, oh, OK, so. This is how he's. Thinking, OK, I can take advantage of that, right? And I do wonder. After, because after he caught Cunningham doing his thing, he did mention, like you said, that people on the Ridge, they don't really know you, the ones that are there now.

1:00:17 And I do wonder, like how many of those citizens are loyalists and, and they just don't know at this point, like who's the majority of them are, are, are loyalists? Which is. Scary because they can just burn your house down. And why you sleep right, Right they. Could, I mean, they could try, but I mean, Jamie ain't no fool. He may, he may have gotten a little, I won't even say gotten a little soft hearted, but he's a little more mellow. But like I said, they bout to bring that beast out. Yeah, especially. Because not only do. You have clear to protect.

1:00:58 Brianna and Rodger are back with their kids. Now you have Fanny. I. Don't know. What's going to happen with? This new family that they introduced in this episode, but at some point Agnes comes to live with them in the book. So it's just. I don't know. He has a lot of. People he has to protect. So now. You are threatening. That, and not only are you threatening that, you are lying to me. Yeah, about it. And. You won't feel any remorse, right? And one thing we we know Jamie don't like a liar. Yeah, so, yeah.

1:01:45 And then So what? I did wonder. Is he did say to Jamie he was like, OK, Jamie had brought up the fact like you said, you retired, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And he's like, yeah, but then some stuff happened that made him want to come out of retirement. I'm like, yeah, I kind of feel like you'd never intended on retiring, that it was never about retiring. And and I instead of saying, you know, somebody you know, basically came to you and you had no choice but to like respond like just be honest. He was out here in these streaks by to try to take over the Backcountry. That's what she would do probably. Yep. And Jamie, just. Came in and kind of messed that up. He came home, woman. Yeah. And you didn't know that she. Would eventually, I mean, he would eventually return, Yeah, yeah. So next couple episodes is about to be. Interesting, because we have.

1:02:37 Now we've got 7. Left. That's a lot of stuff you got to cover if if we're going to do this war in the Backcountry, whatever this thing. Is with Fergus. Whatever this mystery is with Ben again, I really feel like all of this stuff is going to tie together, so it'll be interesting to see what they do to tie it all together. Yeah, I'm, I'm very, very excited to. Know what this Fergus thing is? I have thoughts, but I'm very excited to know what this is about because you know. Fergus. Having a secret life on the side somewhere sounds kind of awesome. It'll be interesting.

1:03:19 Though I think if if they do what they do in the books, it'll be very interesting. I'm like, I should put out my my. Guest and say, OK, I'm just putting it out there when my guest is OK, what's your guest? Oh God. OK, so he's from France. So I feel like he's got a parent who is some kind of higher up king, Prince, Lord Duke something. What was the? What was the? Was it a? Oh my God, the guy who? Stopped Duke. Duke Cassandra. Him wasn't one of the people in France too. Like who else was there? He was an English Duke, though.

1:04:01 Yeah, yeah, he. Was English but he was over there. Didn't he go to France too? Yeah, he was back and forth. Yeah, yeah. But yeah, but I don't know, I don't think it's him, but I'm just trying to. Think of like anybody we've crossed in the story that could possibly. I feel like it 'cause you know what, I ain't gonna lie, every if it's a historical novel, it's always about parentage. Like always. So I'm like, OK, that's my guess is that it's about his parentage because obviously he's born in a breath hole and blah, blah, blah. But. So that's my guess y'all. I don't, I ain't. Spoiling, I don't know, just you know, go go with it. If you agree with me comment, yeah, we'll, I'm, I'm sure we'll. We'll probably find out next episode, especially since Fergus was in the the preview, you know, maybe we'll get a little bit more information. But did we talk about everything in this episode? That's what I'm trying to remember like I think. We got everything.

1:04:55 I'm I just I? Can't wait to hear what Michelle has to say about this Jamie and Lord Jonathan, because you know, she, she, she's been mad with Jamie for a minute, especially after that fight. She was like, OK, you know what, Jamie? That's why it wasn't. That wasn't excessive. The way he beat that. Man. Was excessive. I don't care how mad you are. That was bad. Like, I don't think he beat enemies as bad as he beat John, you know? That's yeah, but also he don't really care about the enemies. This this was very personal for him. Oh, yeah, that's, I get it. You know, not not only the whole thing about Claire, but also that's technically speaking, that's your best friend, right?

1:05:40 So yeah, yeah, that's your bestie. And and and. One of the only people aside from Claire and Ian that you like trust, right? And who and who has your? Back right like can you? Think of the number of times. He could have turned Jamie in as a traitor person, you know? Or he could have. He could have let Jamie go. To the colonies with the rest of the arts Mirror men. Yeah, you know he was. He wants. He knew his secret and he turned him down. He's always tried to look. Out for Jamie, always. So yeah, I'm gonna need Jamie to get over it, but. You have any final thoughts for? This episode, oh God. I think, I think it was actually, it was fine. It was good.

1:06:27 I am because they did bring up Faith again and and this and this power. I do wonder if that's why they brought it up. It's because of her new power versus her actually finding out what happens to Faith. Just leave it at that now. Well, this is what brought. Your power. Now we're just going to move away from the whole faith thing, period, because I kind of feel like they could do that. Yeah, you know, because it. Kind of lets it kind of has. A thing where like OK, but they did but did they say I feel like her and Jamie talk about like did he bring the baby back Master Raymond? But see, see that to me again, I think. That would be highly unlikely because she held faith for an entire day. Little zombie faith.

1:07:15 So I I just. Don't think if if it's some. Somewhere within the first few minutes, I feel like there would be a chance, but I mean, it's just like when someone has a heart attack and they die and you continue to do CPR, whatever. Sometimes they come back, but it's always within a few minutes. You're not going to have somebody be dead for an hour, 2 hours, then all of a sudden they come back on the table. It's just not going to happen. So I don't think they, I don't, I don't think they could have done that with faith. That would be very unrealistic. And again, I think it would push the magical aspect to a whole different thing. And I just, I don't want it to be that. Yeah, yeah, I don't overly, yeah.

1:07:57 Complicate. Things but more magic. No, you need. I do wonder how people who have not read the books though, how they feel about her being magical, being in that way. Well, I mean, they, they, they teased it. Out of way, you told her when you when your hair turns white as snow, you will come into your full power, you know, So it's, it's not like, again, it's not like it's beyond the realm of possibility. I mean, they travel through stones 200 years back. You know how people are. There can't be werewolves, but vampires exist. There can't be. Fairies, but vampires exist. Yeah, yeah.

1:08:38 Yeah, you know, but yeah, that's yeah. I can't wait for next. Week me either so yeah, I think I. Think we're going to try to watch that together and do some reactions because of some stuff happens next week. Like I think it's going to happen. I need I need to see you on Michelle's faces. So yeah. So we'll try to get that done and Michelle should be back with us next week. So for now, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms.

1:09:18 Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.