The Last of Us Season 2 Episode 2 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #351

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Anthony and we are here to discuss Season 2, Episode 2 of The Last of Us. Raise my box of tissues when I need. Them. So are we going to look, are we going to save that to the last or are we going to go on ahead and RIP the Band-Aid off? We we should just RIP the Band-Aid off. I can't believe they didn't even give us half a season before they they dropped the Abbey killing Joel bomb. Well, I think, I don't know, I think maybe they're like most people watch this show, probably no.

1:10 So there's no reason to just be around the Bush just because the same people will complain. Why didn't y'all just get it over with instead of leading up to it? Because. Those of us who didn't play the game, we needed time. Even though some of us knew what was happening, we needed time to wrap our mind around it and I just don't feel like they gave us enough time. Yeah, well, what I thought they were going to do, like I really didn't think they were going to kill him in the second episode because in a game, Abby is a playable character. So I thought, well, maybe they will start like the episode 1 and the Episode 2 would just start with Abby's character and we'll follow her journey. Right.

1:57 Up until, you know, at least towards the end of the season, we get her coming to Jackson and then we would have last night's episode. I thought that that's what they were going to do to kind of build up Abby's character for us. But you know. Well, I think what they what they ended up doing is they they went on ahead and got that part over with. So now I think the way that they've done things in the past, we'll probably go back and see a little bit more of like flashbacks of her character, probably while she's training in Seattle. But I think they went on ahead and did that. So we could also see Ellie's journey because Ellie is about to kill a bitch do.

2:45 You. Do you understand the words that are coming out of my mouth? Ellie is about, oh, I never, I never changed my name. I was just Ellie is about to kill a bitch. They have a woke in the cracker. Man, I asked, I asked Mike, my son, earlier today because I couldn't remember if he played the game before. And I said, do you play The Last of Us? So he just looked at me. He said we had this conversation during Season 1. I said I can't remember, that was so long ago. So he was like, yeah, he was like asking me if I play that. It's like asking me if I play Red Dead. What is? It red dead. Redemption. Redemption, yes. So I said, oh OK, I said, so this episode I'm watching because I'd paused the episode my second watch through to run him to the store real quick.

3:36 I said this was that episode. He said, Oh yeah, no y'all can have that bullshit. He was like, I had to play through that shit. I'm not no, I don't need to see it. I was, when I say I was watching this and as as the events of the episode are unfolding, I'm kind of sort of sitting in my head like, they're not going to do this yet. Because I really thought the way they were going to do this character, especially after Joel saved her, I thought there might be a little bit of conflict there, like a little bit of, Oh, well, he did save my life. And then I thought, OK, well, what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to go back with him to Jackson.

4:20 We're going to help out with whatever. And then we're going to kill him. Like we're going to let him, you know, have him let us in. I thought it was going to be one of those elaborate scams. But I will say this for Abby, she's single minded. She was like, no, fuck that shit. I'm not about to, I'm not about to kiss up to him. This man killed my dad. I'm about to kill him. So I, I give her her respect for that. But I I just, I wasn't expecting it to get to that climax in this episode. Like, I fully thought, OK, like if I was writing it and that's what I wanted to do, when she pulled the shot and shot him in the leg, I would have went to black and then come back up to her like five years ago.

5:02 Well. We we've. Done trying to track him down, like go through the process of of figuring out where he is and and how much time it actually took him to do it. Yeah, that would have been good for at least three or 4 episodes. So I think we'll probably still get some of that because I do know that even though can't you say, even though Joel is dead, can't. Even say words. I don't think Pedro's time on the show is over yet because there were scenes that they showed in the promos, the, you know, before the season started and just different little clips that we've seen where like there's a scene with him and the therapist in in a cafe having coffee.

5:54 There's a scene with him and Ellie having a confrontation. So I don't think we're done seeing him yet. We just know that present day Joel is gone. Let me tell you, I can't even once my mind wrapped itself around the fact that this was actually happening. This is 1 of this is one of the the few times that although I was devastated, I could not cry. I just sat there watching the scream like you fucking bitch. I mean, that's all I could do. I couldn't even cry because it's like I've known that this was going to happen. I knew it was going to happen in season 2 because that's all the gamers talk about is the whole thing with Abby and Joel. And yeah, Oh yeah.

6:40 She becomes a playable character because she, you know, and she kills Joel. I was like, who the hell asked for that? But I was like, OK, it's, it's an interesting twist. It's the net start. You know, I, I felt, I felt a lot of Game of Thrones vibes with this episode a lot. But I just. But so you become Abby and and Ellie is the monster. You know what? And and and OK. And that and that, that is the that's the thing about about being happy. You have this thing. You don't really know what's happening. There's let me go for you. You have no idea you're being stalked. Yeah, it's crazy.

7:21 Yeah, I've heard about that. And you know, I, I will say this. If I take a step back, if I take my emotion out of it, if I take the fact that I have been watching Joe's journey, you know, for the whole season 2 episodes that he was there, I could probably say, OK, I could understand what Abby did. I really could. You know, that's your, that was your dad that he gunned down and you still don't. I mean, I guess The thing is you still don't know why he fucking did it. And I understand you don't care. It doesn't matter to you. But just like you are coming to get vengeance for your dad, he was doing that for his surrogate child.

8:04 And I was like. Yeah, but The thing is, after you saw that town, after you saw how many people were there, you think they were just going to let that slide, You know what I'm saying? Like violence begets violence, revenge is like digging your own grief. Oh and then she she about to have not only you, you think you think Tommy not about to come after this bitch that killed his brother? And that's the thing if we we sometimes overlook the fact that remember when he said he and his brother he used to do? Some do terrible things. He used to do some things you. You really look what cracking are you talking about in your screen name because both of think of 2. Both of them.

8:50 And I have a feeling Maria's going to try to talk him down, but no Boo Boo. He's not going to be able to. That's my Big Brother, and the fact that they're dragging him back and he's not even going to be recognizable because of what she did to his face. Nah, ain't no. But I do like how well like I do see why the showrunners did it his body like that. So there will be no question, like if they just left it at the theme singing on his neighbor, maybe she saved them, Maybe he might be a chance. He still like, Nope, he's gone. Yeah, he gone. They they showed us the body. He gone, he's wrapped up being drugged. Back and and you see.

9:36 You see the? They they. Took care of the head so that he, you know, nothing could because of course they already know they're about to go back to a town. That's probably not the way that they left it because of all the fire and stuff. Because the OK, the the other crazy part of this episode, like, like you couldn't just kill the man and let us deal with the peace. You had to have us stress the whole fucking episode because I thought Tommy was going to get it in this episode. Really. And for some reason, I wasn't too too much worried about Maria, especially after Tommy distracted the Bloater.

10:24 After after all that crap happening. I I wasn't, I wasn't too much worried about her. I think the emotional impact would really be if something happened to Tommy, which the Tommy was like this close is close. Several times I was worried about Seth. I mean, that bloater was right in front of him about to swipe down and then not. Those lucky motherfucker. What was interesting was the other flamethrower guys. I was like, are they running away? Yes they are. Yes they are, Yes they did. And he stood. There like I'm gonna do this and then those muffles, right, I don't. Think I can't say I blame them 'cause when you see that coming at you, especially if you weren't on the wall and saw what it was, because if I had been on that wall, I'd have been, I'd have been shitting myself.

11:21 I'm not lying because you you hear them talk at the beginning of this episode. In the last episode, you know, they've had clickers getting closer to the town. They talked about it earlier in this episode. They were like, yeah, so we found some dead clickers in the snow and then a group of 30 of them came from up under them. They were using the dead ones for insulation. I was like, oh, y'all from the y'all about to give us some shit in this episode again. I wasn't expecting it so soon. I was not expecting what came out of the ground the way that it did. And I was like, I should Episode 5 last season. They got me with that one.

12:08 I should have known they were gonna be on some bullshit with this one too. I was, I was thinking they were prepared for a large group of of clickers. They weren't prepared for a horde that. Was an army. That was an army. That was a horde. That was a lot. They were not prepared for that. If it was like 100 and 5200, they've been all right. But I swear it had to be 1000 it. Had to be I mean, Jesse kind of said it earlier in the episode and you know, we kind of took it as a joke like ha ha, Ellie did too.

12:49 But then when you see them coming out of the ground, like it's playing in the background now Abby just came to end. Also, all of this is your fault. All of this is your fault. You should stay to ass put, but you want to go try to be whatever it is. You see these two P. You know, you you see these two people on patrol. You don't even know who these people are. It just so happened to be Joel. But even even with that. I don't know because it happened the same time the dude cracked another one of those pipes. But see, that's why they started turning away and. Yeah, and he pulled out the thing, but I think they would have come out of the ground even he when he did that. Yeah, they were.

13:35 Yeah, But I. Think they were going to come out of the ground anyway. Yeah, but. Because he did not. It wasn't like, 'cause last time they cracked them up and they didn't mess with it. This time he did again and started trying to pull it in. Was pulling. It out because I don't think when they cracked it the first time, I don't think the tendrils were there initially. I think kind of like they were. They were 'cause they, they were 'cause they moved around and went back in. That was at night though. They cracked the pipe earlier in the day. Early in the day, yeah. Yeah. So I think the tendrils probably made their way out to where we saw them that night, but they weren't there that day. Because if they if, if the tendrils had been in that pipe that day, they would not have had no New Year's Eve celebration. I guarantee that they would have been, they would have been dealing with different type of fireworks, like those gas barrels, which I was laughing when the gas barrels came, 'cause I was like I hit Anthony in my head. What the hell?

14:32 They get all that gas 'cause that was a lot of gas. If that. Was gas. If it was gas it could have been some other flam flammable liquid. I mean, we don't know, but. OK, yeah, it could have been bacon grease. So the bacon grease they had saved up. I mean, it, it could be something, but yeah, it was like when when we see the the start of the episode and you kind of get the idea that this was somebody close. Because I think in the last episode, I was thinking that her connection was to Marlene because, you know, Marlene was the prominent person in the Firefly. So I just automatically so oh, there might have been a mother figure or depending on how old, you know, could have been a could have been a lover. I mean, in this kind of environment, you might see a little more May December romance type thing. I was like, OK, that must be what it is. I never think about the fact that the doctor could have been related to her, but it does explain some of the conversation they had back at the graves when they were like even if it was true about Ellie, there was like, there's nothing we can do about it now because since and she was like, don't it makes more sense now cuz she don't want to hear about her dad being dead.

15:47 Like she sees the the evidence right there. But when, when they wake up and they see the town, because you know, when we, when we saw them in the last episode, it was night time. They just saw a little bit of the lights. They just thought, oh, OK, maybe a few tents or whatever. They wake up and they see it's a whole fucking city down there. They have to start rethinking what they're going to do to the point where the, the guy, I can't think of his name, but he's like, he tells the other ones. He's like, yeah, my, my plan is to convince her to let this go. And I was like, dude, that's not, that's not about, that's not going to happen. That's not about that. She might rethink some things because like they said, they're looking at the town with the binoculars and they're like, oh, they have fences, they have guard towers. They only have four ways out and all of them are blocked. I mean, you know, all of them are guarded. They have dogs, they have all of this. They got military people like there's there's nothing you for. I don't care how much militia training the five of you have, you are not going to take that whole town. Right.

16:57 But if they had scouted just a little bit more and paid attention, they have a pretty much an open door policy. They they could have. Yeah, they. Could have just went down there and he'd be like, hey, we didn't know you guys were here. They was taking the man. They just saw them and was like oh y'all have some training? And that's what I thought was going to happen. You know, I was like, yeah, that's that's an easy plan. Figure out who everybody is, find out who Joe is. Take a patrol with them. But the sad thing is Joe walked right into her like, you know, even saved her because she she was about to she was about to get got. Yeah. But, and, and you know, spoiler, for those of us who haven't played the game and you're not going to play the game in the game, it was him and Tommy were partnered up. So it was Tommy that was with him. OK, yeah.

17:52 And I I did read something about that because they were like, they like the fact that they changed it up between Tommy and Dana so that Tommy was at the town and he was having his big hero moment there. I was like, yeah, I kind of like that better. Well, the main problem game the players of the game had is that he when they were in the cabin, he and Tommy called each other by their names, and that's how she knew it was Joe. But knowing the two of them and having done what they've done, it's more likely they wouldn't have used their real names in front of people they didn't know. Yeah.

18:37 Yeah. So that's why I think, and that was one of the other reasons why they made the change with Dina, because she was yelling his name out. You didn't know he had someone with her as a you know. So Abby overheard his name as opposed to to Tommy just saying name out loud. Right, right. And I thought about that too, like towards the end, once Ellie finds them in the in the lodge and she comes in, you know, guns blazing and she gets taken down and she's sitting there looking at what they've done to him and and she kind of realizes what they're going to do to him. You know, she's sitting there telling him, get up, Joe, get up, Joe, get up.

19:17 And there was a, there was a part of me that really wanted because at this point, Joel and Ellie are still estranged. You know, this is literally New Year's Day. This is the day after the whole party, the little fight that, you know, the argument that they got into this is the next day. So they're still estranged. I don't. Well, we don't talk about that. I don't think so anymore. I think they were, but she I think. Because because he strung, he strung the guitar back. He put it back in her room. He told them not to wake her up. So she gets some rest. And the first thing she said was, I want to go on patrol with Joel.

20:00 And then you know which one claw? He said something about it. And she was like, no, Joel is Joel and I'm me. And what you all see on the outside is not necessarily what's going on between us. I think she. I don't think. So that Jesse would get off her ass about it because it's it's the next day. They literally have not had time to make up because. Yeah, but we have to we also, but we also have to understand how the dynamics of their relationship, right? He ain't that emotional of a person who is when it comes to expressing outward emotions. He's good at showing he's he, you know, his love language is acts of service. Well, what we saw was that she went, she went to her garage angry at him still.

20:50 And that's the last thing we see with with them together. Right, but the first thing she asked for, I want to go on patrol with Joel. I think she was trying to get away from Jesse because she was feeling awkward because she kissed Jesse's ex-girlfriend. No, because what she says after that is all related to her and Joel and what's going on with them. And she was, she was like very serious about it. They didn't look like something she was making up. And no, and I get that. And I do believe that part of her does believe that. Like, OK, you know what? He's him. And I, me. And I mean, Jolene said the same thing in the first episode when he was talking. I forgot who he was talking to. I think he was talking to Dina. It's like she's her and I, me and, you know, we'll figure this out. It's almost like if you, I mean, you're a parent, you know, there are times when your children are mad at you and they don't want to talk to you or whatever.

21:41 And it's kind of like, OK, I don't want to talk to you. I'm mad at you. I don't want to have anything to do with you. But that doesn't mean that anybody else can comment on that situation. That doesn't mean that they can be like, oh, what's going on with y'all and stuff? No, stay the fuck out of our business. We, we got this. However we handle it, we going to handle that. But that's not for y'all to know. And that's the way I took that. She was like, look, my, my, my relationship with him is complicated, but but we're good. And then when Jesse kept pushing, he was like, so y'all made-up or whatever it was that she just kind of looked at him like get out my business because it's really nobody else's business in the town what the situation is with them.

22:26 And I'm going to say this too. I do believe that she knows what he did to the fireflies. And I say that because during the course of this episode, you know, there's a snowstorm that comes in and they have to go take shelter in one of the stores in the town that they're patrolling. And it turns out that story is Eugene's store, the the therapist's husband. And we do find out a little bit about what happened to him in this particular episode. He apparently got got bit, turned or started to turn and Joel had to put him down. Jesse is making that comment, talking to Ellie. And he was like, man, that's, you know, that's messed up. You go fight in Vietnam, you fight a whole war, and then you die from something like this.

23:17 But it couldn't be helped. And the look on Ellie's face and she was just like, yeah. And I was like, she knows what Joel did. Yeah, from that mistake in the game, he tells her. What? He eventually comes clean, He tells her. So we'll probably see that. In a, we'll probably see it in the flashback. Yeah, in a future episode. That's why I was like, I don't think he's, I don't think he's done done. But, you know, I was, I was just like, there was a moment in that in that scene where she's watching him about to die. And I just wanted something between the two of them. Like, I don't know, like me, you know, I'm like the the sappy romantic.

24:04 I need to have like closure and, and all this other stuff. Like I wanted her to maybe call him dad one time. I wanted him to kind of just be like Ellie, you know, or just say her name. And then I thought about I was like, if the Fireflies heard him say her name, they will understand why he did what he did. And then also they would probably understand why he ain't said nothing because he could have easily defended himself when Abby was asking all the questions. And he just sat there like OK, you going to kill me? It it's not going to matter what I say. But if they had said anything other than what was said with her calling him out, I feel like if Abby would have known who Ellie was, if she had realized that connection, she would have transferred her anger onto Ellie to him.

24:55 Be like, you're the whole reason all of this started. If you hadn't have been there, then he wouldn't have come after you. My dad would still be alive. And I was like, yeah, no, she will probably kill Ellie 1st and make Joel watch it before she kills him. So I was like, OK, I guess I'm not going to get my my daddy daughter moments, but I just, I really wanted something like that. Yeah, no, no. And I, I will say this, Joel, Joel isn't stupid. He saw. He knew from the jump that look in her face, the look in her eyes, he knew.

25:36 He's like, no matter what I say, no matter what I do, she's going to kill me. Especially given. The fact that that half of the people in the room were looking uncomfortable with what she was doing. Yeah, he was like, yeah, she she about to kill me. Yeah, he knew. He and he, that's why he was like, she's going to her speeches, like just shut up and get over with. Right, because at that point I was like, I had look, have you not heard of monologue and and why that's a bad thing? I mean, I didn't think he was going to get up and do anything because he really was. I think at that point he had already resigned himself to die. Because if he didn't, I mean, he had Dina there with him.

26:17 They had already knocked her out, put her to sleep. So I think he was thinking more or less what they would do to her if he did anything. And I think at that point, he was just kind of like, OK, this is it. No, he, he knew my mother wept. He was going to die. I do feel like. And he, he knew that they were not going to do anything. But then because they put her out, they didn't kill her or anything. They just put her out. And he knew that that was just a threat. So. Yeah. He he knew that he was going to. Die. I do think though, that he was conscious enough towards the end. I'm pretty sure he probably if if anything about that whole situation pissed him off 'cause I think Joe has probably known, OK, something is going to come from this.

27:06 You know, like you can't slaughter people like that and just get away with. I think he always knew something was going to come for him. I think he would have been pissed off about the fact that Ellie ended up showing up and she had to watch it. That was probably the last thing he thought. Like, I don't want this for her, But there was nothing he could do 'cause I mean, she, she beat the shit out of him. Yeah, she made good on her promise to kill him slow. That's OK 'cause I think Ellie, when she gets to her, she gonna be worse.

27:46 And I'm so sorry. I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm waiting for it to happen. I'm like, because I don't want to say she's a villain, she's a bad guy or even Joel is bad guy. Like in this type of world. We talk about this all the time with Walking Dead and we've talked about it with this show and just kind of all of this dystopian or end of the world thing. You don't have your good people, you don't have your bad people. Everybody in this type of situation is going to be have a have questionable morals because what else can you do in this type of world? It is a kill or be killed type of world. But it's like you, you, you add on the fact that one, she killed Joel 2 in her quest to try to kill Joe, because I'm pretty sure she went after whoever she saw on patrol thinking, OK, it's only two people. I can take them.

28:46 I can do what I said I was going to do early. I can tie them up. I can ask them about Joe, you know, something like that. Or she could have, if she had really thought about it, the whole pretending thing, she could have been like, I heard my somebody is, is here in Jackson, my, my dad's best friend. I mean, she could have played it off like, I'm looking for a guy named Joel, blah, blah, blah. She could have done that. But she had to sit there and try to climb down to rain that she was not familiar with in an area she was not familiar with. And what happens? She loses her footing. She slides down the hill into a literal mass graveyard of clickers frozen in the snow up until they realize that something is moving up there and the way that snow starts turning and breaking up as they're coming out. I was like, let me go fix me some coffee. I couldn't, y'all can't be stressing me out like this. And then the night before I went to go see Sinners. So that day I was like, Nope, this is too much for me this weekend.

29:56 It's too much. It's too much. I got too many monsters in my life right now. I can't do it. But didn't they feel like, what was that battle with? The uh huh, when John, when Jon Snow and the guys were being when Jon Snow came out the water, he was being chased by the White Walkers. Yes, that's exactly what I thought, exactly what I thought, because I was, I was looking at it and I was like, I'm getting some Game of Thrones vibe that should have told me to expect what happened to Joe. I was like, oh, OK, yeah, I'm just doing the whole Game of Thrones things, except we got clickers instead of White Walkers.

30:39 We have Joe Miller instead of Ned Stark just. And somebody asked me that on social media. It was like, how am I supposed to go to work tomorrow feeling like this? I said, Can you imagine? We used to do this every week. She was like, what the hell was wrong with I? Mean it's. It's it's, it's such a good episode in a bad way, but it's also a bad episode in a really, really good way. This is probably the best episode for me of of both seasons so far. Yeah.

31:21 Yeah, and explain, explain this to me. Who took the time out? Who took the time out to convert a 711 into a greenhouse? Eugene. No, Eugene found it, he said. Me and Eugene found it on the patrol. You're. Right, you're right. Could have been somebody who was there before. He he said Eugene found them on the patrol and then showed it to me when we're on the patrol. Yeah, yeah, you're right. I I don't know mate. I mean, I guess you do what you got to do when the world is doing this shit. I mean, that's how look, that's how Joel paid for his, that's how he paid for his therapy session. That's why she was like, you think I don't know what this is? And she started telling him all the insurance and out because she was aware of what Eugene was doing in that 711, because she was like, yeah, he been doing this since high school. I was like, yeah, I know a few people, but I I still can't believe they didn't.

32:31 They didn't even give us half a season. It's like the first, first episode we going to set it up and let y'all know, oh this is what's going on. And in the second episode, we really just going to smack the shit out of you and then pull the rug up from under you? Yeah, but but, you know, Pedro Pascal is a busy man. He got a lot of things going on and he is, you know. And, you know, I was looking at some of the some of the kind of reaction episode, excuse me, reaction interviews that they're doing now because, you know, because it's kind of out there. And he said, you know, yeah, this was this was basically I knew this before I even got the part.

33:16 Like they all, they were always very upfront about, you know, hey, we're, we're getting this from source material from this game and we are going to stay as true to it as we can in this medium. So he was like, I've always known it was just the, the once it got to that point, it was just kind of like, and I'm just like. And but you know, they probably can't afford him anymore anyway 'cause he's the biggest thing on the cast, so. Yeah. But you know what? I would think that when they signed him.

33:59 Probably put a cap. On his salary like OK, we we're going to do 2 years we're going to give you this salary because he was already on his way up like he was shooting up the stratosphere when he got this he was already doing Mando don't tell you now they. Don't do caps. He had to he had to renegotiate clause in there based on how successful the show was going to be. But if he knew he was going to be out, he he made sure to maximize his income from what they had and they would have had to pay him more and. Especially. If he was going to be a, if he was going to be a permanent Castman versus recurring because you don't get paid as much as a recurring so but. So here, now now.

34:49 He'll just be recurring and they like pay him so much and he can go off and do all the MCU movies he wants to do. You know, it's so funny because I've been seeing people online complaining about the fact that he's doing so much. They're like, you know, Hollywood gets in this thing where they find a favorite and they put them in everything. And I'm like, no, this motherfucker is just that good. He's. He's a great. Actor just that good. He's like a charisma. Yeah, there's a lot of. Cruise with that, yeah. You know, yeah, but. You know, I, I. Read article about that. The Hollywood always finds like 5 actors and five actresses that they like and that's how you seeing everything until they get replaced by another actor actress. That's OK, because you know.

35:36 What the fact that he is this buzzed about at 50, that's that's almost an unheard of thing in Hollywood. You know, it's like, especially because. He's been in the business. For what, 20 something years? But he's only been like big big since Game of Thrones, and that sometimes don't doesn't happen because you know how this whole. How this whole thing is? With older people, I mean, not so much men as as it is for women, but still him being a 50 year old, you know, they consider 50 over the hill.

36:16 But thank you. I'm just saying I'm I got I got two weeks. I got two weeks. Where's Where's Mike? At when I need him, I'm I'm just saying that. That's that's what Hollywood does. I'm not saying this right, because when you take all of this, this Gray out of Joel Miller's head and you look at Pedro Pascal, you're not going to look at him and think he's 50. No. So But yeah, I just, when I say this episode hurt my heart so much, like I don't even I know we had a whole other thing going on. I don't even know if I have the energy to talk about it.

36:59 It's just. It was a very. Emotional, emotionally draining episode. I mean, there was a lot going on, a lot of roller coaster UPS. Now I, I literally was holding my breath during the horde attack. Like, I was, I was, I was, I was just on the couch. And even with watching Abby and Joel, that whole dialogue where she starts telling him about, you know, the Fireflies and oh, do you know how many people you killed? Did you count them as they, you know, as they fell or whatever? You killed 18 people and one doctor. And then when he when she said doctor, his eyes kind of moved. She was like, yeah, I'm pretty sure, you guessed it, that was my dad.

37:42 I was like, yeah, that was Joe saying, fuck, I'm definitely not getting out of here, Like, but just that whole conversation because I know a lot of people complained about her casting because they didn't feel like she was big enough, like the like the video game character. And it was like, what's this little girl going to do? I'm sorry. She was scarier in this scene than any big person would have been to me because she had the she had the calmness like she had, she has had five years to Stew over this.

38:22 And even when she realized it was him and she went to grab for her knife and she looked at him and he had the gun. You. Can tell she was sitting. There calculating and she was thinking OK hey we can go back to the lodge that's where my friends are because she knew this is a man who took out. 19 people. By himself. Your five. Your. Little five years of militia training ain't going ain't going to do shit against that. This man has been doing this for 20-30 years, you know, because he was in the military before all this stuff happened. So she was smart. She was like, yeah, you need some shelter, It's cold out here.

39:07 We're in a lodge. And when he asked, do y'all have weapons? Yes, we have weapons. We can fight. You know, she's trying to make it seem like, yeah, we're gonna help you. But she was calculating. She was like, yeah, five of us can take him better than just one of me because she doesn't have the sides. On him, you. Know she doesn't have she probably doesn't have the strength. I'm not saying she's not strong, but she's not. I've been in a war and I've been doing this shit for for a long time type of you. Know strength. She was she, she played it smart. She played it smart. She damaged him so he couldn't do anything.

39:50 And. Then she she. Said her piece and I really think she was trying to get a rise out of him but like you said, he realized he was going to die. Why is he going to give her the satisfaction you? Know I think if. If there had been a little compassion in there instead of the cruelty, I think he would have been like, you know what, I'm sorry, I, I, I had to go save my kid. I think you would have said something that kind of, you know. Diffused a. Little bit of the situation, but at this point, the way she's being cruel, she's like, yeah. I'm not giving her nothing. Her. Pen was pulled.

40:30 She was going to explode. You couldn't put that pen back in that grenade, and he knew that. Why? Why say? Anything why I try to defend myself, why I try to justify. She has already made-up her mind. And like I said, he's probably seen that look 1000 times. You know, he's he, he knows about her size because of that. She's like 5-2. She's little and yeah, I do hear about the things because in the game her character is very strong and and sort of a big person. And with if, I think what they kind of did was since you couldn't play as Joel anymore, they replaced him with her because she does a lot of the same actions that Joel does, like moving things around, beating people up.

41:24 As opposed to, you know, Ellie, you have to sneak around and shoot people from a distance where the rifle would sneak up on him and stab him in the neck. He was, Abby was more like him in in that style combat type thing. Yeah. And that that was. I think that was really for the game designers to give you that same feel that you had in the first game when you're going back and forth between Ellie and Joel here, going back and forth between Ellie and Abby. And it was going to give you that same because you don't want them switching to another character and that character plays the same as the other character. So yeah.

42:05 Yeah, it was. It was, it was. Sometimes people can be the engineers of their own demise when it comes to adaptations and they want it to be exactly like the thing that they played and it's just, it's just not it's sometimes it's not possible. And sometimes they do make the decisions. I mean, on on here we talk about decisions and adaptations that screw things up that don't make any sense. But here they made some decisions that made sense. They made some choices and changes that kind of work. I think you know I.

42:48 Because Tommy didn't need. To be with Joel, it was better than it was Dina, you know, and, and you need to know more about Abby because in the game, you don't really know why she's doing it. You find out way later. But here they kind of give you it in the beginning, you know, like the whole scene of the cemetery. They kind of give you something to hold on to. I I don't want to say make her sympathetic, but to kind of give you and I didn't understand why because in the video game you have no clue. Yeah, why? This doesn't give you any. Information. OK, Yeah. So. That choice makes sense. OK, Yeah.

43:29 And one other thing I want to talk. About was, I can't remember if it was one of the writers or creators, but they had said that they they thought Joel made the right decision at the end of season 1 or at the end of the first game, but then recently that person switched. She she's about to kill him in the background. I don't want to see it again, but the. The reason I think that person switched and was like, yeah, they don't think Joe made the right decision. I don't know if there was a right decision to be made. Yeah. And I, yeah, I think we've. Said that too because and I don't think there. Was a right decision to be made in that that that instance, yeah. They nobody had enough information about anything to make any informed consent decision about anything. So at that point you do what you think is right and he did what he thought it was right.

44:21 Yeah. And then? Also too, looking at it from the perspective of a of a parent, I'm sorry, I'm going to save my kid. The whole world can burn. When you find out they. Don't really know what the fuck they're doing. Well, that and that. Too. But even without all of that, I'm supposed to just let my kid be killed. So everybody, why? Why? I just you. You sound like Michelle. When she when she talks about cabin in the woods and how in the end they made the decision to let the world burn supposed to sacrifice themselves, right because. Here, here's the thing.

45:04 So you sacrifice whatever for the rest of the world, OK. The rest of the world is. Going to go on the way the rest of the world does. You're still going to have people killing each other. You're going to have people hurting each other. You're going to have people who are being unkind, people who are doing this. And it's like, I let my kid die for this. Oh. Absolutely. Not Oh my God, OK, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not gonna you know what I just got turn this off 'cause she just crawled over to him. And when I say her crawling over to him because asshole Danny Ramirez then kicked her in the stomach, I was like, why y'all gotta have him be an asshole in this show?

45:50 That's OK. But her crawling over to him, I think in a sense, I think that hurt me more than seeing Abby drive the the. The. The golf, you know, queue into his new The broken Golf Club. Yeah. Because it's like, at that point, you kind of want her to put him out of his misery and you already know she's about to do it. If it wasn't for her friend, she probably would have tortured him some more. She would have been on him some more. And it's kind of like, OK, at some at some point, you're literally being a dead horse.

46:35 Just just let it go. Go ahead and kill him that crawl over to him, her having to pull the club out of his. I was like fuck. Y'all fuck y'all and fuck y'all. I don't want to say the sound. Editing was really good in this episode, did not need to hear. All of that, No, When that. Moment when Abby drives the Golf Club or stinks him with the Golf Club and the sound just drops out and. You all you get is a. Muffle screen for Ellie because that that's like her world has ended.

47:18 And they have awakened the. Cracking. Can you imagine her and Tommy coming after Abby? That I'm count, I'm counting OK, that's going to be 1 episode that person's going to be 1 episode because remember last year someone died at the end of every episode I. Feel like. That's what's going to happen to this crew. They might as well title the episode with that person's name because that's that's what's going to happen. And it's going to be sad because. The two girls wasn't male and I can't remember the other girl's name, Tati Gabriella's character. They really didn't want Amber to do all of that. They were just kind of like, OK, just kill Joel and and move on. Like, we look, we have been following you around for five years.

48:06 We tired. We want to go home. We don't want to be in this cold in these mountains with this storm. We just want to go back. We don't want to do all of this. And you saw when when she was beating Joel in the face, Mel was over there crying because Mel is like, you know, I know I said we'd help you kill him, but this is not what I signed up for. You had. I wonder. I'm taking bets on who goes first. Mel going to be first 'cause she's the weakest, so. Oh my. God, this is it's. Going to be it's it's it's going to be good yeah I'm I'm really I kind of think the. Other girl is going to be first and I. Because she didn't really do.

48:51 Anything in this episode? Well, she took she took Dina's gun, she took Joe's guns and I love Tati, Tati Gabrielle. I love her in everything else I've seen her in. So I'm looking at her in this episode and I'm like, they really just wasting her like this. Like she she barely has no lines because she was in the 100. I've seen her new sexy choreography. You you probably gonna. See it again. She she is it for a reason. You'll see it. So I don't know I I. Think if we're going to take bets, yeah, you're probably right. I think it's going to be male. Then I think it's going to be Tati's character. I think Danny Ramirez's character because he's, you know, he was the one that that assaulted Ellie. She she gonna come after him and then the other dude just because he seems to be the closest to her to Abby and I, I don't know, I have a feeling his death is going to be slow. And I have a feeling.

49:59 Abby's going to be forced to watch because, again, you, whatever you felt when your father died, you are the she she was the same age that Ellie is now. 1919, yeah. So now you're putting. Someone else through what you went through, you don't think she's going to come back with that same vengeance? At least when he killed your father, he killed him on one shot. Quick, clean put. Him out as misery. Yeah. And at this point, Ellie doesn't. Ellie doesn't know why you killed her, why you killed him. That's the same.

50:42 No, I think she can. Probably guess. She can probably guess well, especially. If and. Knowing. Are two different things Abby had on the Firefly. Necklace and she Yeah, yeah. And she turned around to look at Ellie, like, yeah, I'm, I I want you to see my face. It's almost like a challenge. Like, yeah, I just killed him. I know you over here crying for him and you calling out for him. Yeah, I just killed him. And I want you to see that I killed him and she. Told her I'm going to kill you. Oh, you best believe she going. She going to be good on that promise. You're all going to die.

51:23 You're all going. To die. But yeah, I, I think if Joe has already had that conversation with Ellie, then she probably has figured that. She probably did figure out, OK, this is probably why. But it's kind of like she'll probably think it's been five years, but then. Again. We. Might just see how long it's. Gonna take her to find them 'cause she doesn't really know who they are, where they come from. Now, Dina, I do know that in the promo for the next episode, Dina is gonna be like, yeah, I got their names and I and I know, you know, she's going to be able to recognize that symbol that Mel had on her bag. But yeah, you already told this girl what's your names? Are you introduced yourselves to them before you told everyone that the guy was Joel?

52:18 So yeah, of. Course Dean is paying attention, especially because she had a gun to her head. She's like, oh, let me remember some shit. But OK, we're going to get off. This depressing topic Let's go to the other depressing topic. Let's talk about these clickers and. The town. Because I will say, very impressed with the way that they defended themselves. They. You know. Very medieval. It is, but I mean. You kind of have to be in this type of environment. But the fact that they were all, for the most part, on one accord, you know, everybody did what they had to do. You don't have any straight children running around trying to do stuff.

53:06 You know, you don't have anybody doing anything stupid. And I liked that. I was like, all, you know, all the children, all the old people, they went to the basements, they went to the Cellars. They hid like they were supposed to everybody. Yeah. Everybody who was. Supposed to be on the roof, went to the roof. They had their guns, they had their weapons. You had the people who were on the wall, you had the people who were loading up the barrels. Like they had that shit packed. And that's probably why they stood for 20 years, because they they weren't playing. They were like, OK, look, if we're going to stay safe, we have to work together as a community. And that's what they did.

53:51 And and who came? In clutch at the end, the dogs, the dogs, they knew exactly what to do I was like, OK, so the. Animals don't get the animals don't get the Cordyceps. Cool. She went in and got those dogs. Those dogs were barking. They was like, let us out, let us out. They knew exactly what to do. They did. And it's so. Funny because one of the one of the clickers, I don't know if they didn't catch it in editing, but one of the clickers, you can hear him when the dog comes to him. He says dog real quick. And I was like, did you say that? So somebody didn't edit that out very well. But yeah, I mean, even even the dogs did what they were supposed to do.

54:41 I like that. And it's like nobody was getting killed up until they busted through. But the fact that. The fact that they. Were hiding under the dead bodies. The fact that once they realized they weren't getting through one way, they just all turned tail and went around. And Joe was looking. I mean, Tommy was looking at them like the old kids. Yeah, he was like. Because all of them were at the front gate. Nobody, I don't think anybody was on the surrounding gates because. They were all coming from I. Mean when you look out and you see these hundreds, maybe 1000 clickers, you're not thinking about the back door.

55:24 You really aren't. Because you like if they get through here, it don't matter who's at the back door. Yeah. And what happened that had the Bloater breaking the wall down? Anything was armor because they were shooting it. This fucking floater. He was getting ready to go after Maria because she was shooting at him. She was shooting him dead in the head and he's looking at her like, oh OK, I'm coming to get you. And that's when Tommy was like, hey over here. But I was like, where y'all baby? Because I didn't see him in the he was in the basement. He was in somebody's basement, but yeah, I was. I was very impressed with the way that town handled it, and as you can see, the town is still standing at the end. There's a lot of dead clickers in the street, a lot of dead people as well, but for the most part most of their town is still intact.

56:18 I think there were maybe a couple of buildings that were on fire, probably from the flamethrowers. Could have been from the two flamethrowers that retreated. And if so, I hope y'all dead coward one. Of them was Seth, 'cause I don't think it's Seth around, did he? But anyway, yeah. And then then walking around shooting people in the airway gotten bitten that they had to be hard to. Yeah. But you know, Joel set the standard to kill Eugene. Yeah. And we don't. Even know how bad Eugene got? Because from the way. They were from the way his wife talks when they're like, when she said it's not that you had to do it.

57:03 I understand you had to do it. It's how you did it. I was like, oh, did he have to get like ultraviolent in order to put him down? He could have shot him. Right after he got bitten 'cause sometimes it it can take up to 24 hours and sometimes it's quick. Yeah, but who's who's? Take that chance like Joel is not. Exactly. Exactly how fast? It was a test. How fast she changed, Yeah. And, and he at at, I think at that point he was even going to try to be like, well, maybe. And Tess was like, if you don't get the fuck out of here, she was like, I already feel what it's doing to me.

57:48 Yeah. Joe was like, we're not going to do this again. No. No, but. I. Let me tell you this. Episode from start to finish, I was sitting on the edge of the couch. I was like, I was sitting there with my hands like this at one point. Then like I said, I had to pause at one point 'cause I was like, I can't that's too many clickers like it. The I got goosebumps now just talking about them because once, especially when you do like the the sky shot, when you're doing a drone shot and you see all of them kind of running like ants, it just feels like something is crawling on your skin. I was like, no, I can't do it.

58:36 I can't. I was like, OK, it's going to take. Me, two hours to watch this episode and like I said, I went to go see Sinners the night before, so I've already I got vampires in my mind on one end, then I got clickers on my mind and the other end I was like, you know it. There's a reason why I stay away. From far as much as I do. For as much as I did. But it's like, no, OK, come on now. You, we, we are not going to have this conversation again. I'm just saying I don't. I don't watch horror as much as I used. To and I remember why. Because now I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to sit here and think like I, I did.

59:17 I didn't sleep last night. Not because of this, just because I suffer from insomnia. So I literally got about 15 minutes of sleep last night. But every time I closed my eyes last night, I was either replaying the movie or I was replaying the show and I was like, you know what? This is not good for my health, right? Can I? Listen to something. That's gonna say no. It just, it was still there playing and I was just like his prosthetic makeup was so good because I was like, did y'all really hurt my baby's face? And Abby would say, yeah, you are kind of handsome or you are handsome and I. Feel like that's why she.

59:59 Hit him in the face so much too. She was like, yeah, you good looking guy. Let me just let me fuck your face up so nobody can recognize you once you die. I when when Ellie gets to her. I'm just, I'm waiting for it. But I, I want it, I hate, I hate to say it, I want it to be just as slow as it was when she killed Joe. Because and and and the same with the friends too, because the friends could have put him out as misery.

1:00:39 They could have, I think if they had tried, they could have handled Abby. They could have been like, OK, you know what? You've done enough. If you're not going to kill them, just leave it alone. Nah, you stay out of it. Let her get it out of her system. Because then you. Got to be around here. You got to hear her. You got to hear her talk about it. I know you didn't. Let me do this you. Didn't let me do that. If you had just let me do this, that's not complete. But I didn't get mine says Nah. Let let her just just go. Just leave her alone and just be like OK. You may want to try to wrap this up pretty soon, 'cause we don't want to have the whole town on top of us, right, 'cause I'm like, OK.

1:01:20 So you came across these two? We just had this one other. They're gonna come looking for their patrols. They're gonna come looking for their patrols, right? Well, I guess they. Find, I guess they actually looked at what was going on that town. They were like, no, I think they're a little busy right now. Right now, yeah. But at. Some point. You you might need to, you know, those clickers could turn around and come back up the mountain. But see, that's the thing. The other. Friends didn't even know about the clickers, Abby. She did. Yeah, she did. That's. Right, so I. Was just like I said, I don't think he's, I don't think he's gone completely because I do believe they're going to show us some flashbacks on some stuff, but.

1:02:04 The fact that he is. Dead and Ellie had to watch that's just I swear HBO be doing some shit. I don't even I. I don't even know if there's anything else to say. There isn't. They're looking forward to this season. I mean yeah, 'cause if y'all like this. Coming out the gate, Yeah, like I said. This is episode. 2 They have what, 8 episodes in this season, yeah. But the fact that Ellie said you all going to die, I'm sure Tommy's going to get a couple of them and they're going to die some brutal deaths because.

1:02:55 They're going to be 1. Information about Abby and Dana, Dana will. Probably join in. Oh, she'll be on. She'll be in. Lonely too, because she was there. They knocked her out. Jesse was crying on his horse when they were he might be there. Too. He might be there too. He. Might be like, OK, you know what and Maria's going to be like. Y'all can't do this, we gotta let it go. And they're going to look at her like, especially you're like, excuse me? Come here for a second, let me show you my brother's face and what this bitch did to him, Tommy and. Ellie are going to go no matter what anybody says, and nobody better get in their way. Absolutely.

1:03:39 Absolutely nobody Tommy is. Like. This is my Big Brother. My Big Brother. But you know what though? They. May make a change. I mean, they mean that because he does have a kid and and I can really see. I can really see Joel telling. Him stay with your kid. Now he would tell Ellie. You do what you got to do. He's. Like. He would tell Tommy you got to say what you keep. Do you think Tommy? Does not know what Joel did to save Ellie. He told him right.

1:04:21 I'm I'm. Sure he did. No, we haven't seen him tell him, but I'm sure. I'm sure he told his brother. So, yeah, and that. That's probably one of the reasons why Tommy was like, we don't talk about that. We don't. Talk about the fact. That you have a kid. We don't talk about that. No, because there are, there are. Enough people in that town who remember when Joel and Ellie came through the first time and that, oh, well, we, we have to leave. We got to go do some. Somebody going to start asking questions and no. So I think Tommy knows. So if that's the case, Tommy will probably also figure it out. And Tommy would have in that mindset, like my brother wouldn't tell me to stay, stay behind and you know, whatever. Cuz yeah, no you don't.

1:05:16 I mean, I feel. Like he probably would, but he would understand that Tommy's gonna be like, no, this bitch killed my brother. It's on. It is on. They got her name, they got. All of their names. They have enough. Information so they can try and figure out what that patch is cause chances are Tommy before he joined Jackson Hole, before he joined that community, he was a Firefly. He was a. Firefly. He's going to know what that is. He's. Going to know, OK. This might be a connection, and I know Abby said that all of the fireflies are gone.

1:06:01 But y'all got some. Firefly adjacent people. Because other than that, how would you know about this militia camp in Seattle? They were probably training some of the fireflies. So yeah. I'm just, I mean, at this point, there's really not much else that you can do that will shock me because killing anybody else other than Ellie or Tommy, it's just going to be like, OK, if they kill that little boy, I might have an issue. But anybody else is just kind of like. OK. Are they?

1:06:41 Are they? Dying to go get revenge for Joe? No. OK, well, you know what? Rest in peace. Keep going. I think the. Only thing they have only thing the only thing that show people have in their bag is. Is the. Brutality, escalating brutality of the murders of the people, that's, that's all they got in their bag and I see it. Happening. This is going to be. Escalating. Because Ellie is going to make sure Ellie is I. I really, really feel like because already Ellie is, she's not. I don't want to say she's not.

1:07:27 Normal, but you already see what type of personality personality she has. She's quick at the mouth, she's quick tempered. You know, we saw her basically doing Private Fight Club. You see her in the promo for the next episode boxing with a lot of anger. It's just going to escalate. Abby does not know what she unleashed. No, she. She's always the cracking. I don't even know if that's strong. Enough a term she I just yeah yeah, because what's going to. Happen, I think is the closer she gets to Abby, the more likely the person's going to hold on to information and the more at Ellie's going to have to do to get that information. And if you don't give her the information, I don't know. Something tells me Mel would crack. Oh, that's what she gonna be The. First, she gonna be the first one to crack and the first one to die.

1:08:34 Yeah, this is going to be an interesting season. I want, I want, I want to see how creative they're going to be. Hunter's sleeping. Has begun. I'm just saying. And, and we saw in the first episode Tommy has been teaching her to shoot and. She's a pretty decent. Damn good shot she is, She is. It's a it, it reminds me of John Wick. It's going to be, it's going to be like John Wick. That could be bloody because. That she killed a lot more than her dogs. So yeah, it's going to be. It's going to be terrible for them. I really feel bad. Well, I don't feel bad for them, but it is unfortunate for them.

1:09:18 And yeah, I was going to. Say like I. Abby is the one that put them in that position. Yeah, they didn't. Try hard enough to deter her off this path. And you know what? And. I'm going to say I can understand them not doing that because that was her father. I mean, think about a year in a post apocalyptic world with these monsters that go around killing people. It's probably already rare that people who that people are still together from their original families before they before this whole thing started, so that I. Totally understand it, but I'm talking about self preservation. Oh, I know, I know.

1:10:02 I'm just. I'm just. You know I. Know, I'm just saying at. Least two or three of them. Be like, you know what, dawg? I'm going to Seattle. I mean, she went to. Seattle. They were there. For five years, she was getting her training because she knew that at the time, as a 19 year old, she was not going to be able to do what she needed to do for Joe. That's why the other dude was trying to tell her, look, the militia may have resources. Yeah, they trained her when we woke up. That morning and we saw that it was a whole goddamn city of people. Nah, we we good, we going back. Well, see, that's the thing. They were going to try to talk her back, but Abby kind of went on her own when she saw the patrol.

1:10:44 I think if she had gone back like she was actually planning to do, because she was like, it's too cold, fuck this, I'm going back. And she just happened to hear the horses. And I was like, damn it, that mountain range in the Echoing Hills, if that's one of those. Feasts point in time they can change. It was inevitable, yeah. I just thought it was going to be inevitable, like in Episode 5 or 6. I didn't think we were going to get it in too. I was not prepared. And when Ellie is. Standing over Abby's body, looking down at her, I am inevitable. I can't believe she.

1:11:29 Killed but. You know what I will say? This I am glad they didn't deviate from that because I think it would have had less impact on the story if it had been someone else or if they had changed it to where, you know, it's just kind of like a cat and mouse game and Joel doesn't die. Granted, I don't like to see that that he died. I I don't I didn't like it when Glenn died on The Walking Dead or any of those people died on The Walking Dead. But it's kind of like sometimes in this type of environment. You, you got to have the emotional. Death and the only way that it was going to be emotional, it has to be either Joel, Tommy or Ellie.

1:12:10 And I don't know anything about Tommy or Ellie's their fates in the video games. And I don't want to know. I didn't want to know about Joel, but it was out so much like when this show was announced, there were so many people who were talking about what happened in the video game, what happened in the video game. Even on my Facebook, I was just kind of like very vague booking, which if you don't know the history of the show, if you don't know the spoilers, it wouldn't have, it wouldn't have triggered you. You wouldn't have known what I was talking about. But there were people who were like, yeah, I can't believe she did that. They did that in the in the, you know, in the game and blah, blah, blah.

1:12:52 And I was like. It hasn't even been 24. Hours and people are spoiling, but I mean, that's just kind of the way it is now. If you don't watch it at the first run, you run the risk of being spoiled. So yeah. Or Joe or Ellie or Abby, 'cause she bout to get it. She bout to get it, yeah. She has at least the crack. I don't. I don't even know if. There's anything left to say about this episode? I don't have anything else to say. Do you? No, I don't. So I don't.

1:13:34 Shout. Out to the actress Glenn Abbey, because she's really good. Haley Deaver, Yeah. Yeah, her, Her. The way she evotes and the talking and and her pacing is excellent. She's a really, really good actress. So I think a lot of people are going to forgive them for not having cast a bigger girl, a bigger woman, and haven't gone with her because she's she's really, really good in this world. Yeah. She. Is so a little too good if you ask me. But yeah, I don't have anything else to say. Joel is dead and I'm depressed. So on that note, that is it for our show.

1:14:16 You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.