The Last of Us S2E6 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #358

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What's up, hybrids?
Welcome back to another episode

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of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast.
This is Hanukkah and I'm here

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with Anthony and we are
discussing the Season 2

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penultimate episode already of
The Last of Us.

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Anthony said something before we
started this recording.

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He said I wasn't going to like
him very much.

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So what is the problem?
Give it to me now.

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Let me, let me take it in.
This episode was kind of mad for

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me.
Yeah, I.

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I'm kicking you off this
recording right now.

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I'm kicking you off.
There's some things that that I

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don't like with the doing with
Joe's character, like he was

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like this hard ass, like bad
ass, and now he's like this

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soft, sappy, mushy person and
this this is like, and then we

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throw the trope in here, the
abusive dad.

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They actually actually, I will
say that this introductory, this

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cold open is probably the best
thing this season.

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But then the rest of the episode
is kind of like.

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Oh my God, I'm about to throw
you away because this was

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actually one of my, if not my
favorite episode this season.

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Only because it's got Joel in
it.

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Well, I mean that too, but it
also, I feel like it gives a

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little bit one, it does give a
little more insight into Joel

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and Ellie's relationship and how
good wasn't that how it kind of

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deteriorated?
There were just a lot of things

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that they played with in this
episode that really like really

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touched me.
And yes, they did show kind of

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the Joel that was, you know,
he's, you know, he's getting

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used to being a father again.
He's getting used to being

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vulnerable again.
But you remember, you got to

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remember, even though it was a
very, very brief moment, we saw

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that type of Joel at the very
beginning of the whole show when

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Sarah was a lie.
So the.

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Whole the whole heart, you know,
hard hearted persona, the tough

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guy, whatever this was a guy who
literally had been keeping

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people at arm's lane.
You know, this was a person who

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had not allowed himself to love,
not allowed himself to feel and

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so that's what you saw.
Now, I think here when we see it

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with him and Ellie, I think it
kind of fits because even

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though, you know, there's
there's still clickers around,

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there's still Cordyceps around,
there's still danger.

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They're a little bit more safe
in the town.

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So I think he kind of just felt
like he could relax a little bit

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and just try to nurture this,
this relationship that he never

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expected to have.
And I just think we saw that.

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But I thought it was beautiful.
I thought it was beautiful.

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But anyway, so OK, we'll talk
about your sucky feelings like,

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no, just joking.
We'll, we'll, we'll talk about

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it.
We'll see if we can come to like

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a, a impasse or middle ground.
But let's talk about this cold

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open because hi, Jack.
I, I swear, ever since I've seen

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him in Hawkeye, I'm seeing Tony
Dalton everywhere now.

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I'm just like, we're just all
over the place 'cause I didn't

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know his character was in
Daredevil.

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And then he showed up and born
again and then saw him in

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something else recently that I
don't remember.

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And I was just like, I'm seeing
your face everywhere.

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But he plays Joel and Tommy's
father in this one.

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And I like, I like the way that
that we got to see a little bit

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of them when they were young
because in this instance, you

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see Joel, even back then was a
protector.

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Yeah, he has a What is a savior
complex?

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Yes, and it started very young,
but you understand it now.

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You kind of understand it now
because he was taking care of

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his brother, because their
father was.

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Abusive.
So, so this is the the thing

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that kind of got me about that
part because and I feel like

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with the way the conversation
went, and maybe this is just a

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generational thing because when
Joel is talking to Tommy and

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Tommy is like, he's going to hit
me.

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I'm going to get the belt.
Now, me being a Gen.

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X kid who grew up in the 80s in
a black in a, you know,

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relatively black household, let
me say my mother is Japanese.

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So anyway, but I did not take
that, especially consider that

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was 1983.
I didn't necessarily take that

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as he was going to be be beaten.
Some kids don't like to get

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spanked and spanking for me as a
child that that was a normal

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thing.
If you misbehave, you got

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spanked, you didn't get beat.
So I was kind of listening to

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the word play in that particular
scene.

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And then, of course, when you
have the, the, the confrontation

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or not even confrontation
conversation between Joel and

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his father and Joel says you're
not going to hit him.

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And his father is kind of like
he has this look of, I don't

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know if his resignation, but he,
you know, when he goes to get

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the beers and he comes back down
to the table.

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I'm thinking if this was a
person who was really like

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abusive in the way that we know
abusive, this is a man who would

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have hit the wall at that.
He probably would have blown his

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top, but he's not.
He sits down, opens the beers,

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and he kind of starts telling
Joel a story about a time when

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he stole something because
that's how this whole thing

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started.
Tommy apparently went to go buy

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some weed from somebody, got
into a fight.

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Joe came by, kicked the guy's
ass, and here we are.

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But when he was talking about
his punishment or what happened

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with his dad, he said, my dad
made me take it back.

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He made me apologize.
And then we drove home.

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And so you're thinking this is
just a normal car ride home.

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And he says when he got ready to
get out of the car, his father

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punched him in the face so hard
that he's that he broke his jaw

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and caused him to bleed.
Now that is definitely abusive.

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OK, again, Gen.
X mine.

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That's definitely abusive.
Yeah.

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And he said yeah, my mouth was
wired shut for two weeks, for

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two months.
Everybody knew that.

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Was humiliating, yes, that sort
of thing is.

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But then he starts talking about
he was like, yeah, I, I hit you.

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And Tommy, he was like, but it's
nothing.

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And I mean, it's almost like he
was offended that they were

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comparing to what his father
used to do because he was like,

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I, I, I never hit you that like
that.

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And I was just.
It was.

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Yeah, but he also said.
I know sometimes I may have went

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too far.
I may have gone too far.

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That's when I started kind of
shifting.

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That's where.
That's where he knows and I have

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done it as much or as often or
as bad as his father did to him,

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you know, and and he says, you
know, and and hopefully one day

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when you have one, you will do
better than me.

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And, you know, and I think that
was really a the reason why I

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really like that was it was
really making a statement on

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generational Trump and and his
father was trying to do better,

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but he was still sometimes go
too far.

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Right, right.
And I would, that's what I was

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going to say because it's like,
again, this is something that I

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have a conversation with my own
kids at this point, my kids are

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in their 20s.
So we do talk a lot about things

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that happened when I was a child
and the way things are now or

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the way things were when they
were a child, because I am one

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of those parents.
I believe in spankings, you

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know, and, and we did that.
Now, if I was raising younger

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children, I don't think I would
do that just because.

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Do you think about the kind of
effect that has on a child and

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just all of the different
psychological things?

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And you see a lot of things that
children are dealing with now

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that that we didn't deal with.
And it's just it it makes you

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look at certain things a little
bit differently.

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But there are still some things
that I will look at with my Gen.

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X mind and be like, OK, but that
really wasn't that bad, you know

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what I'm saying?
And I think I kind of started

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looking at that scene that way
because I was like, OK, yes, he

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is admitting, which is not
typical of abusers.

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Abusers don't generally admit
when they are wrong.

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They don't admit that they're
doing something that's harmful

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and that sort of thing.
So that's the thing I was paying

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attention to with him.
Like, he felt bad about what he

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did.
You know, that.

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No, that doesn't make it right.
But he did acknowledge.

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OK, yeah, maybe sometimes I go a
little too far, but it's nowhere

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near as bad as he was.
And hopefully by the time you

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have children, you won't be as
bad as I am.

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You know, it's like some people,
when they talk about breaking

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generational curses, a lot of
people want this to be like a

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thing like, oh, you know, that's
wrong.

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Just stop doing it.
And sometimes it's not that

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easy.
Sometimes there are things that

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are ingrained in us that we have
to unlearn.

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And sometimes we can unlearn it
fairly quickly.

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Sometimes it takes years to
unlearn.

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So I like that they put that in
the show because they did show

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that.
OK.

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Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a
thing, it's a generational thing

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that he's trying to break.
And then, of course, you see

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Joel trying to do that as well.
He tried to do it with his own

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daughter.
And of course, what happened

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happened.
So now he feels like he has a

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second chance and he's trying to
do it again with this child that

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he rescued.
And I, I, I did love seeing

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that, you know?
There, there was a show that I

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think it was on Apple on TV, the
TV app.

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I can't remember what it what
what it was called, but it was

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about this boy who was going to
be he was show sitting in Great

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Britain.
And it was about this boy who

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had killed a girl with his
classmate, and they were trying

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to determine whether or not he
was sane enough to stand trial

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because of how young he was in
there.

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His father talked about being
abused himself by his father,

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and he tried to do the opposite.
He tried to be different than

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his father was towards his son.
But then he started thinking

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maybe he was too soft.
Yeah.

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Because his son ended up.
Being yeah.

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So it's kind of hard to find
that balance when you're

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unlearning such harmful
behavior.

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But I, I do like they showed
that this was somebody that he

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tried.
And it, it's obvious that, I

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don't know, Joel and Tommy
didn't have resentment towards

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their father.
Because if you notice, when his

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father got ready to leave and he
touched his shoulder, his father

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was wearing the watch that Joel
wears.

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And I was like, oh, OK, you
know, and maybe that was just

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kind of an acknowledgement of,
OK, yeah, my dad wasn't the

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best, but he tried.
He tried his.

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Best, I didn't actually like
that because I think it took

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away from the significance of
Sarah giving him the watch.

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Because we don't, we don't
really understand or we really

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don't get Tommy and Joel's
feelings about their father.

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Like we have this cold open, but
we don't know if they ever

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resolved it, if they ever talked
about it.

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It did the why did the watch
have significance to him?

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And So what we're left with is
seeing the watch we have to fill

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in for ourselves, right.
And I don't, I don't necessarily

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like that for this.
I would have preferred maybe

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more of that conversation or
maybe a next day conversation

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about it and him acknowledging
that, yeah, you know what I am

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doing wrong.
And I I yeah, I was wrong.

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You know what I'm saying?
Like make it mean something.

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Because up until this point, the
watch meant for us, it was the

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last thing of his that Sarah had
given him.

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You know, that's the
significance to him.

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Now what you've done is you've
shifted the significance away

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and not make her contribution as
important or as emotional.

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Does that make sense?
And just just for me, it it that

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kind of it kind of takes away
from it a little bit because

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it's not like it was a watch
that he bought and he was like,

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yeah, I really like this watch.
And then you broke it.

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And then she went and got it
fixed.

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That's really significant for
him.

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Yeah.
But I for me, I think the

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significance is the fact that it
was his father's watch.

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And when the watch broke,
instead of throwing it away, he

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kept it.
And she understood how much that

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watch meant to him, which is why
she took it.

224
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:56,880
And when it had it fixed so that
he can have it with him again.

225
00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:57,480
So I.
Think.

226
00:13:57,480 --> 00:13:59,800
But we don't.
We don't know that We don't know

227
00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,320
that we don't know.
Why is it significant to him?

228
00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,840
Just because he belongs to his
father doesn't make it that

229
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:08,480
significant.
I have a.

230
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:14,880
It it would have I would need
more forward to me anything for

231
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,680
me but otherwise it takes away
from it.

232
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,120
I feel, I kind of feel like with
the way that they ended that

233
00:14:22,120 --> 00:14:26,560
particular scene, especially
focused on the watch, I feel

234
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,880
like we that's not the last
we'll see of that.

235
00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:33,000
I have a feeling we may see
either a continuation of that

236
00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:37,880
conversation or we'll see
another flashback maybe having

237
00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,680
to do with Tommy because, you
know, obviously Tommy is being

238
00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,880
brought back into the story in
Seattle, even though we haven't

239
00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,240
seen him yet.
But maybe that will.

240
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,200
They will find a way to connect
that and show us why it's so

241
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,680
important.
That's the way I got it.

242
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,080
I don't think we're going to see
Tommy until next.

243
00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:00,640
Season I, I kind of feel that.
I kind of feel that way too

244
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:04,040
because even after watching the
promo for the next episode,

245
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:08,200
which is the season finale, I
don't think Tommy is in it.

246
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,040
So I was like, oh, y'all going
to make us wait until the third

247
00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:14,280
season?
Because he's going to be yeah,

248
00:15:14,280 --> 00:15:18,640
he's going to be Abby's big bad.
That's yeah.

249
00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,200
OK, I like that.
Well, yeah, OK, we'll see.

250
00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,560
Because because I have, I still
have questions about the way

251
00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:33,200
that plays out, but we'll we'll
talk about that later on.

252
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,400
Let's let's move with the
episode.

253
00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:40,720
So this this episode is
basically all flashbacks all

254
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,240
about significant days for
Ellie, her birthday.

255
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:50,600
So we see everything from her
15th birthday, which is the 1st

256
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:54,440
birthday she has after Salt Lake
City, all the way up into the

257
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,880
most recent, her 19th birthday.
And just kind of with those

258
00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,080
birthdays, we see the
relationship kind of

259
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:04,400
deteriorating.
But the first thing I want to

260
00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,760
say is Joel is back in the
intro, The little cortex.

261
00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:11,680
Yeah, the little I was.
Like, yeah, but then immediately

262
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,320
I started tearing up too.
I was like, OK, so this means

263
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,360
y'all about to like, just kind
of put my heart through the

264
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,560
wringer.
OK, I'll take it if we have him.

265
00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:22,600
But yeah, I was glad to see
that.

266
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:30,560
So the first flashback that we
see is Ellie's 15th birthday.

267
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,720
And this is kind of funny
because this takes place two

268
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:38,480
months after Salt Lake City when
they come back to Jackson and

269
00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:40,760
they're they're starting to get
settled in.

270
00:16:41,120 --> 00:16:44,720
And the first thing you see is
Joel kind of establishing a bit

271
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,760
of AI.
Don't necessarily want to say

272
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,960
relationship with Seth, but it's
kind of like an agreement.

273
00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,680
Like Seth is looking at him
like, oh, you're the new guy.

274
00:16:54,120 --> 00:16:56,560
And Joel is like, I've been here
two months.

275
00:16:56,880 --> 00:16:59,360
But you know, they go into this
conversation where they're

276
00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:01,280
trading and they're bartering
for stuff.

277
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:07,480
And what we find out is that
Seth used to be a cop.

278
00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,880
And he reveals this because Joe
comes in with a bag of Legos and

279
00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,599
Seth is like, oh, my grandkids
will love this.

280
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:17,119
Well, where did you find it?
And Joel is like, well, I found

281
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:21,400
it at the houses, blah, blah.
And Seth was like, I searched

282
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,040
those houses.
And what did Joe say?

283
00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,040
He said, well, you know, I used
to be a smuggler.

284
00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:29,800
And you, your this.
And Seth gets really offended by

285
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:32,000
that because, you know, he's
tending bar.

286
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,920
And Joel is obviously kind of
implying that, oh, you're just

287
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,040
the bartender.
He was like, no, I used to be a

288
00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:41,240
cop.
And then Joel looks up at him

289
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,520
and his face kind of changed.
And I was like, Oh yeah, 'cause

290
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,880
his dad used to be a cop.
Dad used to be a cop.

291
00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,720
So they have a conversation.
It's a real really weird

292
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,560
conversation.
And then you find out they're

293
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,360
talking about cakes because
Ellie's birthday is coming up.

294
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:02,520
So Joel, he asked for the cake
and then he also asked for

295
00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:04,320
something else.
And when he comes home, he has a

296
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:06,600
piece of bone.
Now I'm looking like, what are

297
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,360
you about to do with this bone?
And then you go into his room

298
00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,400
and you see all of his wood
making tools.

299
00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,400
And I, I kind of forgot about
that for a minute that Joel,

300
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:15,800
he's.
A.

301
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,400
Carpenter.
He Yeah, he's carved stuff.

302
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,800
Not just, you know, not just
wood to build buildings, but he

303
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,160
also made things.
And I think we saw a little bit

304
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:29,880
of that when Ellie went through
his room after his death.

305
00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:36,880
And so it takes his bone and he
he like really saws it down to

306
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,200
this little bitty piece.
And basically what he's doing is

307
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,920
he's rebuilding a guitar for
Ellie because he's told her that

308
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,640
he would teach her how to play.
And then when he gets ready to,

309
00:18:47,920 --> 00:18:51,560
you know, try to test it out,
you hear Tommy come in the house

310
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,760
with what sounds like a very
drunk Ellie, But she's not

311
00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,520
drunk.
She's on pain medication because

312
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:03,480
she tried to burn her arm on
purpose, like we learned she did

313
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:09,040
when she told Dina.
And it's it's so funny because

314
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:11,840
like I said, she seems like
she's drunk.

315
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:13,680
She's on, but she's on
painkillers.

316
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:17,160
And Joel and Tommy are having
this conversation about why she

317
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:19,720
would have done it and who was
watching her.

318
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,680
And then they realized that she
did it on purpose.

319
00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,160
And Joel is trying to figure out
like, what the fuck, Ellie, why

320
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,640
are you doing?
And she was like, I'm so sorry.

321
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,840
I just really wanted to wear
short sleeves again.

322
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,040
And it sounded funny when she
said it to Dina.

323
00:19:34,120 --> 00:19:36,080
What was last episode or two
episodes ago.

324
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:39,200
But then you realize that's
really why she burned the pot

325
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:42,240
because she was so used to
wearing long sleeves because she

326
00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:45,920
was hiding her her bite mark and
she just wanted to wear short

327
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:49,160
sleeves again, it sounds kind of
stupid when you say it like

328
00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:52,160
that, but then if you think
about the fact that this is a 14

329
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:57,040
year old girl about to turn 15,
stuff like that is important to

330
00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:03,520
her, you know, and.
One one small detail about the

331
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:10,080
bone, the bone he put in the
guitar is actually because he

332
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:15,800
because of her, the bite and the
Cordyceps bumps, he wants to

333
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,920
make sure her hand arm didn't
chafe.

334
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,160
So that's why he didn't use
wood, he used bone.

335
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,800
OK.
So he was being conscientious.

336
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,480
OK, Yeah, a little bit more of
that softening that you don't

337
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,400
like, huh, Anthony?
Right, Whatever, whatever.

338
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,600
But I think I, I like this scene
and then the scene that follows

339
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:43,280
afterwards because, and I think
this is one of the reasons why I

340
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,400
really, really like the episode
as well.

341
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:51,040
Because from the time that we
meet Ellie, Ellie is already

342
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:55,440
she's already kind of hard and
she's already a smart ass.

343
00:20:55,440 --> 00:21:00,640
She's already like, she's always
on the defensive and she doesn't

344
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,200
allow anybody to get close to
her until Joel.

345
00:21:03,680 --> 00:21:06,720
And then what you kind of see in
this episode, especially the

346
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,480
first couple of birthdays, you
really get to see her be a child

347
00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:14,960
in a way that I don't think the
character has ever had a chance

348
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:16,520
to do.
Right?

349
00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,040
Because when they're in Boston,
they grow up in Phedra.

350
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:22,120
Phedra teaches them how to be
soldiers.

351
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:25,920
Because of course you've got
these monsters running around

352
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:32,480
who have no sense of, no sense
of sense.

353
00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:36,840
I mean, you know, to put it, to
put it lightly, they, they just,

354
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:38,560
they're mindless killing
machines.

355
00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:41,160
They're all they're doing is
looking to affect and create

356
00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,080
more Cordyceps.
So I don't think she's ever

357
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:49,200
really had a childhood.
So for her to get a present,

358
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,400
like a guitar for her to get a
cake.

359
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:53,520
You saw she got the cake.
And when he turned around to get

360
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,360
the knife, turned back around,
she had already, I mean, it was

361
00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,160
like a what do we call a smash
cake for a one year old?

362
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,360
We always let the one year old
smash the cake.

363
00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:05,440
And that's exactly what she did.
And I felt like I was like, this

364
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,040
is what we have been missing
from Ellie's character, a chance

365
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:13,080
to see her actually be and act
like a child.

366
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,600
Because she's never been to a
birthday party.

367
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:17,480
No.
Where do you cut the cake?

368
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,040
No.
And.

369
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,080
Not only that, I don't one of
the things that I noticed

370
00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:26,560
throughout the episode and I
think one of the things that

371
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:30,840
really made Joel's betrayal hard
for her.

372
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,720
I don't think she's ever had an
adult take that kind of interest

373
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:40,320
in her genuinely because they,
they loved her and they wanted

374
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,160
to just make her happy.
I think from the moment Marlene

375
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:50,480
got her, I think Marlene kept
her at an arm's length because

376
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:53,480
this is a child who may one day
save the world.

377
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,320
Again, we've had this
conversation.

378
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,920
If this is a child that's going
to save the world, and chances

379
00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,200
are she can't live in order to
do that, I'm not going to let

380
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,920
myself get attached to her
because why would I do that if I

381
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:05,880
know I'm going to lose her, you
know?

382
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,320
So I don't think she's ever had
that.

383
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,560
And so watching the things that
Joe did for her for her

384
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,320
birthdays in this episode, the
way that he kind of talks to

385
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:19,840
her, the way he treats her,
because it is kind of sort of

386
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,920
like a parent, but also
differently than a parent.

387
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:28,600
Because there's no way if I come
into my children's room at, at

388
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,200
what was it 17 at the time and
find them smoking pot and making

389
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,600
out and, and doing all this
other stuff and then they

390
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:38,120
decide, oh, well, I'm going to
go move into the garage.

391
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:40,080
There's no way.
I would have been like, OK, I

392
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,320
think you need your space.
No, you're a child again,

393
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,960
different times.
Because I don't have to worry

394
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,920
about the kind of world that
they are living in.

395
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,400
And Joel no longer has the
luxury of raising a child in the

396
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:59,640
world that we live in.
But I, I, I enjoyed seeing her

397
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:05,920
Glee throughout the episode when
she saw the things that she

398
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:12,080
loved, when she walked into the
Space Museum for her for her

399
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:16,000
16th birthday, just the look of
childlike wonder.

400
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,680
And I think I mentioned this in
the last episode as well.

401
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,560
You know, we get on Ellie about,
OK, you know what, you're really

402
00:24:21,560 --> 00:24:24,640
being inappropriate because
y'all got other stuff to worry

403
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:26,720
about.
But again, we have to take into

404
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:29,000
account she's never seen a lot
of this stuff before.

405
00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,440
It's just like when she saw the
airplane in the first season.

406
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,600
I feel like we have to give her
time to.

407
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,760
She should be allowed to do that
for a little bit.

408
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,960
I know it can be impatient for
us because we like, yo, Abby is

409
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:43,880
there.
You gotta you gotta do this.

410
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,080
But I think those moments are
important as well because it

411
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,000
kind of shapes her character
later on and some of the

412
00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:51,640
decisions she's gonna make later
on.

413
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,720
And the same goes for Joel,
because you have to understand

414
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,360
why he's made the decisions he's
made.

415
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,480
And I think part of.
That, but I don't I don't agree

416
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,560
with the it's going to help
explain her decisions later.

417
00:25:09,920 --> 00:25:14,360
She's supposed to be motivated
by revenge, anger and hate and

418
00:25:14,360 --> 00:25:18,360
rage, not this sappy stuff right
here.

419
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,040
Well, again, we're talking about
the whole generational curse

420
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,600
thing.
And when we see the the end

421
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:30,320
scene that happens and think
about the fact that this is the

422
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:33,680
last conversation that she had
with him before he died.

423
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:40,000
And he also talked in a kind of,
you know, off topic way about

424
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,520
breaking that generational
curse.

425
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:45,560
When he talks about what he did
for her in Salt Lake City and

426
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,720
why he would do it again, you
know, because she wanted to look

427
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,440
at him like she was like you,
you're you're selfish.

428
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:54,760
He was like, because I love you
in a way that I don't think you

429
00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:58,040
understand.
He said if you ever get a chance

430
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,640
to have your own, I hope you'll
be better than me.

431
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,520
And I think I think that
transition from her childlike

432
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:10,400
behavior and her wonder in the
midst of all this stuff, it's

433
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:15,640
supposed to allow us to see that
maybe she is trying.

434
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,600
Because I think she hesitated in
the last episode when it came to

435
00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:24,600
Nora because she realized what
she was about to do.

436
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,000
And then, you know, of course,
Nora being defiant, not telling

437
00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,400
her about Abby saying that, you
know, saying the things about

438
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,760
Joel about, yeah, the little
bitch deserved and stuff like

439
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:36,280
that.
I think that kind of pushed it

440
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,240
out the window.
But I think it is kind of

441
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:45,120
showing us her teetering between
being just like Joel, You know,

442
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,000
remember what I taught you?
Even though that wasn't what he

443
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,320
was talking about, I think
that's what we're supposed to be

444
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,080
thinking about.
This is kind of sort of what he

445
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:58,480
taught her, this violence, this,
you know, this way of handling

446
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,080
things that he was trying to
change.

447
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:09,240
And then you see the things that
he did to protect her, and he's

448
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:13,240
like, yeah, I'd do it again.
And she's thinking about that.

449
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:18,960
Yeah, but the the the problem
is, though, she was raised early

450
00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:24,120
by Ephedra to be the way she is.
I know, which is why I think

451
00:27:24,120 --> 00:27:27,560
that got along so well.
I don't think his violence ever

452
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:32,200
bothered her because it was
already instilled in her when

453
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,280
they met.
You know, that that that part of

454
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,160
him was already in her.
Now when she could learn from

455
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,520
him is what feds didn't teach
him, which was the compassion

456
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:45,520
part.
Yeah.

457
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:50,000
You know.
And even though this is the

458
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:55,440
world that that they're living
in, I think as parents, if we

459
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:58,600
can shield our children from
that kind of thing, we would.

460
00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:04,320
And if we if we could give them
the opportunity to, to do better

461
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,480
or be better and not be this
thing like, OK, I'll, I'll go be

462
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,160
the asshole.
I'll go be the violent person.

463
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,080
I just want you to be a regular
child.

464
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,080
And I think that's what he was
trying to do.

465
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:18,480
Yeah, and and the other thing I
wanted to say is as a father, I

466
00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:24,440
totally understand what what he
did because he literally loves

467
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,440
her like a child, like his own
child.

468
00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,640
And of course, it doesn't matter
if if sacrificing her would save

469
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,760
everyone, that would take away
someone he loved.

470
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,880
And if he could spend time with
her, he would, especially after

471
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:43,160
losing one daughter, you know,
and, and he has another one.

472
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,240
He's not going to lose her when
he can save her.

473
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,240
Right.
Yeah, and and have this time

474
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:52,680
with her.
Look, especially because losing

475
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:57,440
her, OK, yeah, you saved all of
these people are again, we've

476
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,840
had this conversation.
You may not save them because

477
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,320
even though she asked him the
question, could they have made a

478
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:04,800
cure?
And he answered yes.

479
00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:09,600
Yeah, and and that's another.
Thing that kind of technology.

480
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,200
That, that kind of still
bothered me too, because I know

481
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:19,600
we're really not supposed to
compare it to the game, but I'm

482
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,920
going to compare it to the game.
They they don't ever

483
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:29,040
definitively say whether or not
it would have worked because of

484
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,760
all the stuff that's involved,
the mass production

485
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:39,680
distribution, testing it.
Even if they could like the odds

486
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,760
of it actually being successful
are so slim.

487
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,480
And she literally she talk about
her life heavy meaning her life.

488
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,160
She literally could have
sacrificed herself for nothing.

489
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:53,200
For nothing.
Yeah, but we have to remember

490
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:59,320
too, she's looking out at all of
this from 1, The mindset of a

491
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:04,120
child, you know, because we see
this, this whole episode takes

492
00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,920
place between her being 14 and
19.

493
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:09,600
So she's still a child.
She's still looking at things in

494
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:12,520
a child like way.
And I think as she gets older,

495
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:18,240
like especially the the 19th
birthday stuff, when she's

496
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,840
practicing the questions that
she's about to ask him, of

497
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,000
course she's gotten older.
So she's thinking about things

498
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,280
probably in a different way.
She's probably looking at things

499
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:30,400
that happened in a different
light and that's why she's

500
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:36,560
questioning it.
But also the other thing I think

501
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,200
we have to remember, and this is
the thing that really hit home

502
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:44,640
for me when they were having a
conversation on the porch again,

503
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:49,880
going back to her in the way in
the way she was raised.

504
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:55,640
I don't think she's ever had an
adult love her in that way, if

505
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,920
at all.
When Joel told her right then

506
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,120
and there that he loved her,
that's probably the first time

507
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:03,640
she's ever heard it in her life.
Yeah.

508
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,680
You know, in in a very direct
way.

509
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:10,360
I'm not talking about
relationships she may have had.

510
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:15,000
I'm not talking about the kind
of like the off remark that Dana

511
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:16,240
did last week.
Oh, yeah.

512
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:18,440
And that's why I love you.
And she's like, you love me.

513
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,800
OK, Yeah, that's cute and stuff
for that type of relationship.

514
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:27,080
But we all know it's one thing
to know people love us, but for

515
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,200
some people, we have to hear it
in order for it to kind of stick

516
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:36,440
in our minds.
And I think her having him in

517
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,840
her life in that way, showing
her the things that again, make

518
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,240
her happy, the dinosaur, the
space stuff, like that whole

519
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:49,800
scene was, again, I loved it
because I don't think we've ever

520
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:55,080
seen her happy in that sense,
not until then.

521
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,960
Like, pure joy on her face.
And also for him, the fact that

522
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,920
he made her happy enough that it
made him shed a tear.

523
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,520
That's something that Joe
probably has not felt since

524
00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,640
Sarah died.
That kind of all-encompassing

525
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,680
love for another person.
Yeah, he feels it for Tommy.

526
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,840
But Tommy is his brother.
Tommy has his own family.

527
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:17,840
It's different.
You know what I'm saying?

528
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:24,880
Yeah, and also, you know, as a
teenager, one of the struggles

529
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:31,360
that most teenagers have
starting at 131415 is purpose.

530
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,920
Like they don't they they start
thinking, well, why am I here?

531
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:40,920
What is what is my purpose?
And her early on in her mind,

532
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:45,400
she had a concrete purpose.
She knew what her purpose was in

533
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,920
life.
And for her, Joel took that

534
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:51,400
away.
Yeah, You know, and, and she

535
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:56,320
spent, you know, a great deal of
her teenage years trying to

536
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,200
figure out what her purpose is
now, which is what a lot of

537
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:02,640
teenagers go through, you know,
at at that time in their lives.

538
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:07,000
So I I could see how it still
would be very frustrating to her

539
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,640
to feel like that that was taken
away from her, even though we

540
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:12,560
never had the choice anyway.
Right.

541
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,000
And that's.
What I would.

542
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,240
Like to say it's, it's sad that
we have to understand that with

543
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:19,240
her because she never had any
other choice.

544
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,720
No, like I'm sure when Marlene
was keeping her isolated from

545
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,560
the other kids and not allowing
her to do some of the things

546
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,720
that other kids did because she
was trying to protect her.

547
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:35,320
But protect her for what?
She wasn't protecting her

548
00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,160
because she loved her and
because, oh, I just want to make

549
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,640
sure she say no, you're
protecting her because she has

550
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,680
the potential cure in her body
and that's what makes her

551
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,240
important to you.
And the fact that that's all she

552
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:52,800
ever knew growing up to the
point where I, I feel like she

553
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:59,760
was a little bit obsessed maybe
with the whole thing with Salt

554
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:04,440
Lake City and, you know, her not
being able to provide the cure.

555
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:08,800
Even if she believed his story
about there being other immune

556
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,760
people and about the Raiders or
whatever, just the fact that

557
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:16,560
that was such a huge loss to her
because that's what she felt

558
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:21,719
like she was worth.
I think that bothers me because

559
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,320
at you said it 13 through 1617,
they're wondering what their

560
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:29,960
purpose is.
And I, I kind of sort of feel

561
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:36,239
like, how can you make children
feel like they have to determine

562
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,639
what their whole life is going
to be as a teenager when they've

563
00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,159
never lived life?
Right.

564
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:48,400
So there there's a lot of
different emotions that go along

565
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:51,520
with this episode because on the
one hand, yeah, I can kind of

566
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,880
see what you mean as far as
Joel, like, OK, this is not the

567
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:59,040
Joel we're used to.
This is a this is a softer Joel.

568
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,640
This is a more emotional Joel.
This is a more vulnerable Joel.

569
00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:06,560
And we don't see him in that way
very often.

570
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:10,200
It's very, very rare.
I think the last time we saw him

571
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:18,280
that fully vulnerable probably
was the first time they were in

572
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,840
Jackson, when he knew he had to
take Ellie and he didn't think

573
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:23,560
he'd be able to do it.
And he talked to Tommy.

574
00:35:23,560 --> 00:35:25,720
He was like, hey, I need you to
do this because I don't think

575
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,880
I'm going to be able to to do
this.

576
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:35,400
Which ironically is So it struck
me today that if if Ellie had

577
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,800
just let Joel do what he wanted
to do, which was let Tommy take

578
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,840
her, she probably would have
gotten her wish because Tommy

579
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,960
had no attachment to her.
And Joe's choice of words.

580
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,000
I, I, I thought about it today
when he was like, I don't think

581
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,440
I'm going to be able to do what
she needs me to do.

582
00:35:55,520 --> 00:36:00,240
I can't keep her safe if I go
with her.

583
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,720
Because he knew.
He knew she was going to go

584
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:06,160
there to die.
I don't think he really

585
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:09,200
understood that baby.
I think, I think he did deep

586
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:13,000
down and I think that's why he
didn't want to go.

587
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,720
OK.
Because he, I think he had a

588
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,880
feeling that that would be the
last time he saw her.

589
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:24,720
And if he went with her, he, I
think he also knew.

590
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:26,480
He was going to do what he ended
up doing.

591
00:36:26,720 --> 00:36:28,320
He wasn't going to let them do
that.

592
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,960
Yeah, yeah.
So when they confirm and he only

593
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:34,080
went I think because she really
wanted him to go.

594
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:36,720
Yes, and that's the thing I was
going to say the.

595
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:39,480
Reason why he went.
But when Mark when when she told

596
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,800
him that yeah, she probably not
going to make it.

597
00:36:43,720 --> 00:36:45,080
Yeah, y'all, Y'all was dead
down.

598
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:49,280
Yeah, because I, I think going
in, he probably was still

599
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,960
hoping, like, you know, I think
he talked to her about it being

600
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,920
a like blood, a blood thing.
Like, oh, they're probably just

601
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,000
going to take some blood.
Blood.

602
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:01,920
I think he really hoped that
that's what it was.

603
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:05,120
But yeah, now that you say that,
I think maybe in the back of his

604
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:07,760
mind he did know.
Like there's a possibility.

605
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,640
But back then it didn't matter
to him because she was just

606
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,280
cargo.
Remember, She was just cargo.

607
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,000
She.
Wasn't well, I think by the time

608
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,240
they got to Jackson, she was.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

609
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:21,720
And you know, I, I was thinking
about that earlier today.

610
00:37:21,720 --> 00:37:28,280
Like, you know what if Ellie had
just let him back out, chicken

611
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,000
out however she wanted to put it
because she called him a coward.

612
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,400
But if she had let him do that,
then maybe she would have quote

613
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:37,920
UN quote fulfilled her destiny.
She would have cause Tommy

614
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:41,000
wouldn't have stopped her.
Tommy probably would have been

615
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,240
like, OK, if this is what it
takes to cure this, then maybe

616
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:48,680
OK.
Because again, he wasn't that

617
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:58,440
attached to her.
But I, I just think maybe now

618
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:04,720
we're looking at this, I think
now we can look at Ellie's story

619
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:07,120
from this point on and maybe
even going back a couple of

620
00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,440
episodes with a different
perspective because of that

621
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,800
conversation that she had with
him on the porch.

622
00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:16,040
Because, you know, when we saw
it originally, we thought she

623
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:19,520
just walked into the garage and
that was it.

624
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,040
And that, you know, everything
that happened the next day,

625
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,560
because it again, it was
literally the next day that all

626
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:28,480
this happened.
And we're just thinking, oh,

627
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:31,280
that was the last conversation
she had with him.

628
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,880
Oh, she must be feeling guilty
and all this other stuff.

629
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:40,160
And it's it takes on a different
meaning for me now because she's

630
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,600
angry that she didn't get the
time to do whatever needed to be

631
00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:49,240
done to forgive him because she
thought that they would have

632
00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:51,360
time.
He thought that they would have

633
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,880
time.
Yeah, but he got what Eugene

634
00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,800
didn't get.
She got her last words, which

635
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:02,240
were, which was.
I don't.

636
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:04,320
I will try.
I think it's what she said.

637
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,640
She said.
I don't think I can ever forgive

638
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,680
you for this, but I would like
to try.

639
00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:11,120
But I would like to try.
And that's all he needed.

640
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,080
Yeah.
Yeah, He he got his closure.

641
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:20,160
And like poor Eugene.
So I was not.

642
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,880
I don't even know if I realized.
Joey Pantel, I cannot say his.

643
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:27,080
Joy pants.
Yeah, just kind of joy pants.

644
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:28,600
Joy pants.
Joy pants.

645
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,840
I did not.
I don't know if I remember him

646
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,920
being cast or being announced as
being cast, but when I when I

647
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:39,560
heard, I heard the voice first
because I'm not used to seeing

648
00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:44,000
him bald and with the Gray beard
I I'm not used to that.

649
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,120
He's a cipher, but older.
Yeah, but see, he was kind of

650
00:39:49,720 --> 00:39:52,760
off to the back when we first
see him because he's at the

651
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:54,840
tree.
So I didn't see his.

652
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:56,560
I didn't.
I saw his face, but I didn't

653
00:39:56,560 --> 00:40:00,000
recognize him.
The moment he opened his mouth,

654
00:40:00,560 --> 00:40:03,320
I paused the tvi was like, is
that Joey Pants on the screen?

655
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,400
Like what?
Amazing actor.

656
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,320
Loved him for decades.
But I was like, oh, OK, so he is

657
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,120
the mysterious Eugene.
This is great.

658
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:16,920
And then when he showed the
bite, I was like.

659
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,160
God damn cameos or.
I know people were like

660
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,160
suspecting maybe he overheard,
you know, them talking about her

661
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:28,880
being immune or maybe she got
bit and we're not.

662
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:34,800
But no, he actually got bit.
But The thing is, we knew that

663
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:39,000
that there was a lie involved.
Yeah.

664
00:40:39,240 --> 00:40:42,680
Yes, we knew there was some
deception.

665
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,080
And you know it.
It's interesting because this

666
00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,360
takes place right around her.
Her 19th birth.

667
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,880
Well, actually on her 19th
birthday, her birthdays are so

668
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,760
eventful.
I'm just like.

669
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,080
What a coincidence.
The first, I mean, the first two

670
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:04,800
were good, yeah.
I mean, she started out

671
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,520
eventful.
So like literally I think in the

672
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,680
I.
Think in the game they weren't

673
00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,560
around her birthday.
They they were just events that

674
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,360
were happening.
OK, nothing for this episode.

675
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:20,360
Druckman decided to make them
significant on her birthday.

676
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,360
Yeah, because I think some of
the things kind of made more

677
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,560
impact that way, especially like
the first 2 birthdays, just kind

678
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,600
of them celebrating a birthday
the first time And then the next

679
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,840
year the the dinosaur.
I was kind of shocked when I saw

680
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,600
the dinosaur.
I was like, why is there a

681
00:41:39,600 --> 00:41:41,920
dinosaur in the middle of the
forest?

682
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,840
And then when you see that the
museum is kind of behind it,

683
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,080
it's like, oh, OK, that that
kind of makes more sense.

684
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:50,640
And of course, everything is so
overgrown that may not have even

685
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:53,480
been a forest 20 something years
ago.

686
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:55,280
It probably wasn't.
So it.

687
00:41:55,800 --> 00:42:00,000
Was a Plaza.
Or something but her again, the

688
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,760
joy on her face when she sees
the dinosaur when she climbs up

689
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:09,560
and she's like almost her going
into the Science Museum, seeing

690
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:14,080
the orally and and it works
because Joel bought to grease it

691
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:18,440
up before he brought her there.
Her actually being able to see

692
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:23,680
the space shuttle and try on the
the the astronaut helmet.

693
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:29,120
That whole scene had me so
emotional because it's a scene

694
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:32,560
that you don't you don't think
it's going to have that kind of

695
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,320
impact.
You're like, oh, OK, she's just

696
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,080
going to get in the spaceship or
whatever.

697
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,400
And then you remember that she's
kind of obsessed with space.

698
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,080
She has been since the first
season.

699
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:46,440
So the emotional impact of that
is even more important.

700
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:51,040
And the fact that Joel went out,
found that, kept it a secret,

701
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:55,880
did what he needed to do to make
it great for her, found the tape

702
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,720
of the old Apollo 11 launch, you
know, so that she could listen

703
00:42:59,720 --> 00:43:03,560
to it.
And then just that whole thing

704
00:43:03,560 --> 00:43:07,640
of us being a part of Ellie's
imagination while she imagined

705
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,520
going to space.
I was just like, OK, I don't

706
00:43:11,520 --> 00:43:16,560
know who wrote this episode.
Give them an Emmy because wow,

707
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,080
the emotional impact in that
scene was just great.

708
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,680
And you see her happier than
we've ever seen her before.

709
00:43:25,000 --> 00:43:27,720
And they're walking through the
forest and she stops and she

710
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:30,840
looks at all of a sudden, her
face changes, her body language

711
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,080
changes.
And I was just like, what

712
00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:36,560
happened?
And you see fireflies?

713
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,200
And I was just like, oh, so this
is when it started going

714
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:45,320
downhill because you see a
market difference after that.

715
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:48,920
The next birthday is the 17th
birthday.

716
00:43:49,240 --> 00:43:53,720
This is when we find her making
out with the girl who was the

717
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:55,560
patrol leader.
I think her name was Cat.

718
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:59,360
Yep, cat OK.
So we see her making out with

719
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,200
Cat, you know, Joe comes in,
catches them.

720
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,680
We see the tattoo equipment
because of apparently Cat does

721
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:07,680
tattoos.
And that's when we learned that

722
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,120
Ellie had the moth tattoo over
her arm.

723
00:44:11,560 --> 00:44:15,120
They have their argument, you
know, Joel is like, oh really?

724
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:16,560
All the teenage shit all at
once.

725
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:18,480
I would be pissed too.
Like good.

726
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,320
You can't give this to me in
phases.

727
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:23,080
You got to give me everything at
once.

728
00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:26,520
Drug, sex and rock'n'roll.
Like.

729
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:31,600
And then when she has that, that
reaction to him when he was like

730
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:35,560
experimenting with with with
girls and she was like, I wasn't

731
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,960
experimenting.
It took him a minute for it to

732
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:41,240
click.
And then he was like, you don't

733
00:44:41,240 --> 00:44:44,480
mean that I'm going to come talk
to you when when you're more

734
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,840
yourself.
And she's just looking like,

735
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,800
fuck.
And I think that's why Dina's

736
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:54,120
admission in the last episode
kind of struck her a little bit

737
00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,520
more too, because Dina said the
same thing.

738
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,320
I told my mom I like boys and
girls.

739
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:00,880
And she was like, no, you just
like, you just like boys.

740
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,840
And she's looking like heard
that before.

741
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,720
Yeah, well, it didn't help that
he's from Texas, Sarah.

742
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:16,200
This is true and then also with
the timeline there.

743
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:22,640
Well, in that universe, I should
say, everything went to shit way

744
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:27,600
before a lot of the movements
that we have here in this world.

745
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:30,920
Like when Ellie and Dena got to
Seattle, she didn't know what a

746
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:34,160
pride for a flag was.
She was like, what is that for?

747
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:36,960
Like, oh, OK.
I guess they just had a lot of

748
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:41,240
hope, which technically
speaking, yes, they do have

749
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,880
hope.
Hope that they can, you know,

750
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:45,160
live their lives and be treated
equally.

751
00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:49,200
But she would not know that
because that's not the world

752
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,800
that they had over there.
But even before Cordyceps,

753
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:57,040
right?
So it's not surprising that he

754
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:58,920
will still have a little bit of
that reaction.

755
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,000
But I think even for parents who
eventually come around, when you

756
00:46:03,000 --> 00:46:07,400
first hear that, I think
sometimes the reaction is shock

757
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:13,080
and denial because again, the
way that we grew up, it was,

758
00:46:13,160 --> 00:46:15,880
that's not right, that's not
normal, that's strange,

759
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,960
whatever.
So even if you're working on

760
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,600
changing your mindset about that
I was this way, you know, it's

761
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:28,120
still a bit of a shock.
And I think that's what he kind

762
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:30,760
of had to deal with.
And then he tries to make up for

763
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:34,440
it later on in the episode when
he asked her about Dina and she

764
00:46:34,440 --> 00:46:37,360
was like, Nope, we're going to
start this conversation because

765
00:46:37,360 --> 00:46:39,240
you are not about to make me
like you again.

766
00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:45,240
You are an ass.
Because he was OK with the.

767
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:47,440
And then she was like, you lied
to me.

768
00:46:47,720 --> 00:46:50,360
You look me dead in the eye and
lied with that same face.

769
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,800
And I was like, oh.
And he started, you can tell in

770
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,880
his eyes, he was starting to be
like, oh, OK, we're about to

771
00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,840
have this conversation and he's
thinking it's about Eugene.

772
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,400
And then she was like, you
fucking swore.

773
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,640
And he's like, oh shit, we're
about to have that conversation

774
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,000
'cause he told her with Eugene,
I promise.

775
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:14,000
When she asked him about the
fireflies, he said, I swear.

776
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:17,200
So he's like, oh, I guess we
don't have this conversation

777
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:29,280
now, but GAIL, even before
Eugene, she was a bit snippy.

778
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:34,760
But but I guess if if I was
sitting in a Cafe, sitting

779
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:38,160
having breakfast, reading a
book, obviously not wanting to

780
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960
talk to somebody for somebody,
just come sit at the table and

781
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,440
start asking me questions.
I'd I'd be the same way too.

782
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:47,680
She was like, do I look like I
have a The doctor is inside like

783
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:54,680
Lucy from the.
Yeah, she's she, is she?

784
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,520
I like her.
And I totally understand she is.

785
00:47:58,520 --> 00:48:02,000
Because yeah, this, because I'm
a therapist, don't mean I'm

786
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,760
always working, right?
Yeah, it doesn't mean that.

787
00:48:06,160 --> 00:48:11,840
Like, we have office hours too,
even in a global apocalypse,

788
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,760
whatever you want to call it.
Like, don't, don't be

789
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:16,840
disrespectful.
But he finds out the.

790
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,880
Book she The book she was
reading was about a guy trying

791
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,560
to survive when the virus had
wiped out everybody.

792
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:25,480
Oh, I see.
Yeah.

793
00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:28,240
What was the name of the book
'cause I I?

794
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:30,400
I can't remember what.
Attention.

795
00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:32,760
I can't remember right off the
top of my head.

796
00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:36,840
Yeah, I looked it up real quick.
Yeah, but he did get some

797
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,400
interesting information from
her, which I think kind of

798
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:45,040
helped him deal with Ellie later
on, you know?

799
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,800
But yeah, like he he thought the
moths were like butterflies.

800
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,720
If they represent change, he's
like no death.

801
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,440
I wore my butterfly earrings on
purpose.

802
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,760
I was like, well, I don't have
moth earrings and I don't think

803
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,680
I would wear them, so I'm being
nice.

804
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,640
Yeah, I was like, did did he not
watch shines of lambs?

805
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,440
Did he not know that moths
represent death?

806
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,440
Who knows, maybe he did and he
just didn't.

807
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,840
No, he he didn't He, he.
Wasn't thinking about it.

808
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:14,720
He was.
He was thinking.

809
00:49:14,720 --> 00:49:18,320
He was with a parental
existential crisis, like, oh, my

810
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:21,480
God, I came in the room and my
daughter is making out with

811
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,840
another girl, and she's smoking
pot and she got a tattoo and

812
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:27,320
she's only 7.
Those are the kind of things he

813
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,160
was thinking of.
He wasn't thinking that deep.

814
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:31,840
Yeah.
Yeah, he he misunderstood that.

815
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,840
He was thinking that she was
changing, that she wasn't

816
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,600
changing, she just feed out what
she was.

817
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,840
It's not the same thing.
Right.

818
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:45,280
Yeah.
It's just that I, I think that

819
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:47,840
was when he first started
looking at it differently

820
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:50,880
because he's like, oh, OK.
I've been, I guess in a way I've

821
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,240
been trying to make her into
this, this person or this thing,

822
00:49:55,240 --> 00:49:59,080
you know, like to I, I won't say
replace his daughter, but just

823
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,760
to kind of fill that void for
him.

824
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,560
And she has her own things going
on and she has her own way that

825
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:07,680
she wants to do things and live
her life.

826
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:09,880
And she may not always want to
spend.

827
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:12,480
And we know that she may not
always want to spend her

828
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:16,920
birthdays with you and only you
and she, you know, branching out

829
00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:19,280
a little bit.
And I think that was him trying

830
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:23,720
to say, oh, OK, I need to, I
need to figure out how to do

831
00:50:23,720 --> 00:50:25,640
this thing.
Because again, like he said in

832
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,240
what couple episodes ago, he
didn't get a chance to do this

833
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,400
with his daughter.
So he's learning.

834
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:34,680
But you you see that in the
episode because when she's

835
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,440
trying to move that mattress
out, which I was like, come on,

836
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,360
Ellie, it's raining outside.
Why would you take a mattress

837
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:43,040
out and try to go into that
nasty, stanky garage?

838
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:45,840
Like, why?
I understand you're mad, but

839
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,240
whatever.
But when he goes in there to to

840
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:52,440
help her and he was like, look,
so we're gonna have this

841
00:50:52,440 --> 00:50:53,800
conversation with this is my
house.

842
00:50:53,800 --> 00:50:55,160
And she was like, this is not
your house.

843
00:50:55,160 --> 00:50:57,480
This is the house they gave you
or they gave us.

844
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,360
You don't own anything.
And I think she realized that

845
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,120
kind of hit him a little harder
than she thought because then

846
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,000
she does apologize him.
She was like, I'm sorry, I

847
00:51:07,000 --> 00:51:10,960
smoked pot and was making out
with the girl and, you know, got

848
00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,120
a tattoo.
Or rather she said, I'm, I'm

849
00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:17,360
sorry I got a tattoo and smoked
pot and was making out with a

850
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:18,960
girl.
Except I'm not.

851
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:24,040
And I think that's when he was
like, OK, you can go stay in the

852
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,040
garage.
I need some time to process all

853
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,880
of this, but at least let me
make it nice for you.

854
00:51:30,360 --> 00:51:32,960
And then you see them kind.
Of because he's has no heat, he

855
00:51:33,000 --> 00:51:34,800
has.
No, no water.

856
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:36,440
He's like, why did you want to
go in there?

857
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:38,800
But he understood her need for
space.

858
00:51:38,800 --> 00:51:43,840
And then again, like I said, he
has to learn how to do things

859
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:46,480
with her because one, that isn't
his daughter.

860
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,480
And two, I think a lot of the
stuff that he was doing, even

861
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960
though, yes, he was doing it
because he loves her, I think he

862
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:57,760
was also doing it out of a sense
of guilt, especially once he

863
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,280
found out what the moths mean.
Because he's like, OK, this

864
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,840
might be kind of my fault that
she's going through this because

865
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:11,720
she thought she was gonna do one
thing and that's all she's ever

866
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:16,720
thought her whole life.
And it's kind of like, it's kind

867
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:20,800
of like people who get sick and
they think they're dying and

868
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:24,040
then all of a sudden something
happens or, you know, you're on

869
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:26,760
the transplant list, you think
you're not going to make it, and

870
00:52:26,760 --> 00:52:29,400
then here comes the transplant.
You have a new lease on life.

871
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,120
And now you have to figure out
what to do with this life that

872
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,400
you didn't think you were going
to be here to experience.

873
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:39,320
And it's hard enough doing it
again in the real world with all

874
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:43,640
of our resources and our
technologies and our luxuries.

875
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:46,280
She doesn't have any of that in
that world.

876
00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,560
It's just constant trying to
constantly trying to survive.

877
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:55,280
And now you got to figure out,
OK, so if I'm not going to save

878
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,680
the world, what is what is my
purpose?

879
00:52:57,680 --> 00:52:59,520
Like you said, what is my
purpose here?

880
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:03,560
What am I doing here?
She's got to have time to figure

881
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:06,960
that out.
He he's got to give it a little

882
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:10,800
space, which he did.
But then when we see her on our

883
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,640
19th birthday, she's sitting
there on the bed in said garage

884
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:17,920
and she's practicing questions
that she has for him.

885
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:25,520
Yeah, plot holes.
Well, I well, yeah, yeah.

886
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:30,280
Because she was like, OK, so.
His his story has his story has

887
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:34,400
plot holes.
Well, I mean, yeah, because

888
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,960
she's like, if the Fireflies saw
us a mile away from the

889
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:43,520
hospital, how did the whole gang
of Raiders sneak up on them?

890
00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:46,760
I was like, oh, she's going
like, she's gonna hit him with

891
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:49,400
the one too.
Like there is no leaning into

892
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:50,720
this.
We're going all the way.

893
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:54,800
OK.
She was like, second, if the

894
00:53:54,800 --> 00:54:00,440
Raiders were killing everyone,
including Marlene, and you just

895
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:03,480
barely got me out of the out of
the building.

896
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,960
Like, how did how did we
survive?

897
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:10,680
So yeah.
And then the third one was, if

898
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:14,200
there, I think she was getting
ready to ask if there were other

899
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:19,360
infect, other immune people.
Why haven't we heard about

900
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,640
anybody else since then?
But he knocked on the door and

901
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,280
interrupted her train of thought
before she could do that.

902
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:32,880
But I was like, oh, she was
really about to get into him.

903
00:54:36,240 --> 00:54:38,880
And then all the stuff happens
with Eugene.

904
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,520
Eugene gets bit, he convinces or
he he tries to convince them,

905
00:54:44,520 --> 00:54:47,760
hey, let me just go back home.
Let me say my goodbyes to GAIL

906
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,400
and then we can do what we need
to do.

907
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,840
But I still have a little time.
And when he sends Ellie to go

908
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:57,560
get the horses, she stops
because she was like, hmm,

909
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,400
something about this ain't
right.

910
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:04,760
And he's like, I promise.
She turned around.

911
00:55:04,760 --> 00:55:07,280
She looked at him.
She's like, OK, she goes to get

912
00:55:07,280 --> 00:55:09,880
the horses.
And then of course, as they're

913
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:17,200
as, as he and Eugene are
walking, I think I'm kind of,

914
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:25,440
yeah, I'm kind of split because
I feel like maybe he thought

915
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:28,440
about it and that would have
been the the quote UN quote soft

916
00:55:28,440 --> 00:55:30,840
part of him.
Like, OK, maybe he does have

917
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:35,960
time, maybe we can let him go.
And then I think when they got

918
00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:39,520
down there and he started
talking, he was like who the

919
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:42,800
cortisols makes you cold?
I I wasn't expecting this.

920
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:47,040
I think he started realizing
this was advancing and they

921
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:48,680
might not make it back to
Jackson.

922
00:55:49,080 --> 00:55:50,600
And then when he came, he.
Didn't want to take that.

923
00:55:50,600 --> 00:55:52,040
He didn't want to take that
chance.

924
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,200
He didn't want to take that
risk.

925
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:57,160
And it was, it was, it was
escalated because when he got

926
00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,200
there, he was like, which way?
And I'm thinking Joel is

927
00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,640
thinking you patrol this area,
you should know which way to go

928
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:09,680
first.
Of all, they have protocols.

929
00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:14,680
There's a reason for protocols.
That's why Jackson is still

930
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:15,400
around.
Right.

931
00:56:17,080 --> 00:56:19,640
And that's why this is not
something they need to be

932
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:21,440
dealing with in her first
patrol.

933
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,760
Joseph just shot him right then
and not have negotiated with her

934
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:28,320
and be like, dude, this is a
protocol.

935
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:31,560
You know what I'm saying?
Like this because there's going

936
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:35,160
to be a point where she's going
to be on patrol with somebody

937
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,840
else and that happens as well.
We can get you back in time.

938
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:39,440
No.
Yeah.

939
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:43,120
No, we don't do it at all.
Yeah, if that had been at all,

940
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:49,520
if that had been Tommy, if that
had been Jesse, they probably

941
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:52,040
would have been like, no, this
is what we do.

942
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,760
Cause.
'Cause like you say.

943
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:57,800
Yeah, if, oh, if he was with, if
he was with anyone else except

944
00:56:57,800 --> 00:56:59,720
for Ellie, Eugene would have
been shot on the spot.

945
00:56:59,720 --> 00:57:04,800
Yeah, that's true too.
Yeah.

946
00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:10,360
But then when he does take
Eugene, he takes them to a

947
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:14,800
little clearing where you have
view of the the lake and view of

948
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:17,880
the mountains.
I was like, OK, if this is where

949
00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:21,480
you have to die, you can't pick
a better view one.

950
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:27,520
But also once, I think once
Eugene realized what Joe had

951
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,680
intended to do, that Joe had
intended to to kill him.

952
00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:39,160
When he took his glasses off, he
kind of looked and it was only

953
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:43,120
in the eyes.
His eyes changed twice.

954
00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:48,400
And I was like, are they about
to show us him getting taken

955
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,160
over by the Cordyceps?
And that's why Joe had to shoot

956
00:57:51,160 --> 00:57:53,680
him.
And I was like, after I went

957
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:55,520
back and watched it the second
time I said no.

958
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,720
I said, this was him kind of
being angry.

959
00:57:59,800 --> 00:58:03,840
Then this was him kind of being
sad, and then it was him.

960
00:58:04,680 --> 00:58:06,320
OK, I see her.
Let's do.

961
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,360
That Yeah.
Because Joel told him if you

962
00:58:08,400 --> 00:58:11,880
truly love someone, you you'll
see their face.

963
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:13,840
You can see their face.
Yeah.

964
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,440
Yeah.
And then Ellie comes and the

965
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,640
look on her face when they were
going back, she was so angry.

966
00:58:24,280 --> 00:58:28,320
And he was just talking to her.
He was like, you know, we'll,

967
00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:32,200
we'll, we'll tell GAIL, you
know, a little, a little bit.

968
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:35,240
We, we, we won't tell her the
full thing, you know, we'll just

969
00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:39,000
tell her the basics.
But before we get there, before

970
00:58:39,040 --> 00:58:43,760
we get there, shout out to Joey
Pants because the micro

971
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:48,520
expression in his changes that
we noticed, this shows you how

972
00:58:48,520 --> 00:58:51,880
great of an actor he is.
There's a little bit of time

973
00:58:51,880 --> 00:58:54,840
that we got Eugene.
This is a little bit of time.

974
00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:01,960
He gave us so much in that, that
3-4 minutes of screen time, if

975
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,880
that.
Yeah, he gave us a lot, yeah.

976
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:07,400
And like, I have him on screen
now.

977
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,800
You can just see all the little
shifts he makes.

978
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:12,320
That's why I said I thought he
was.

979
00:59:12,320 --> 00:59:19,000
Actually good, yeah.
Yeah, but when Joel is trying to

980
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:22,320
tell her, yeah, we'll just tell
GAIL this, We'll, you know,

981
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:24,440
we'll we'll keep it simple.
We won't give her all the

982
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,040
details.
She doesn't need to see that.

983
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:27,280
And blah, blah, blah, blah,
blah.

984
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,680
You can see her face getting
more and more angry because she

985
00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,160
realizes this is how he handled
her.

986
00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:37,920
Like this is when it's really
clicking to her.

987
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:39,840
Oh yeah, that motherfucker lied
to me.

988
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:44,560
He absolutely lied to me and he
and he went on with his life

989
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,600
because he's literally telling
me how to do it now.

990
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:53,880
So when they get there to
Jackson and GAIL is there and

991
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:57,400
Joel is giving her his spill.
Yeah, he was bit when we found

992
00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,960
him, blah, blah, blah.
He wanted to see you one last

993
00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:04,720
time, tell you he loved you.
I was like, OK, we can go along

994
01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:06,600
with that cause none of that was
wrong.

995
01:00:07,640 --> 01:00:11,920
It was when he said.
He did it himself, I said.

996
01:00:12,560 --> 01:00:14,400
Yeah, I don't know.
Why did he say that?

997
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:15,880
Like, why didn't you do that,
bro?

998
01:00:16,520 --> 01:00:19,400
I know you don't want to be the
one who shot the bullet, but

999
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,760
like.
And she would have understood

1000
01:00:21,760 --> 01:00:23,920
that more.
Because that's what they do.

1001
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,080
That's what they do.
Yeah, and she's a, and she's a

1002
01:00:27,080 --> 01:00:28,840
therapist.
Like she might have been angry,

1003
01:00:28,840 --> 01:00:32,200
but I think she would have
thought about it later and be

1004
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,000
like, OK, you know what?
That was the logical thing to do

1005
01:00:35,240 --> 01:00:39,120
because he could have turned
even if they said or even if

1006
01:00:39,120 --> 01:00:41,520
they tied him up like Ellie
suggested.

1007
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,680
If if he's strong, you know, a
lot of times when we see these

1008
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,800
people who turn into monsters,
they're the strongest when they

1009
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,560
first turn, 'cause they still
got, they still got a little

1010
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,760
blood flow, they still got a
little adrenaline.

1011
01:00:56,280 --> 01:00:59,280
He could have broken out and
infected everybody there.

1012
01:01:00,680 --> 01:01:04,080
She would have understood that.
But the moment he said he did it

1013
01:01:04,080 --> 01:01:06,800
himself, I just hung my head and
I paused.

1014
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:11,360
My tvi said OK, shit's about to
hit the fat.

1015
01:01:11,720 --> 01:01:16,640
I was not expecting Ellie to do
what she did and tell GAIL and

1016
01:01:16,640 --> 01:01:21,880
Tommy exactly what happened.
But you remember when they were

1017
01:01:22,400 --> 01:01:24,720
in the previous episode?
GAIL said.

1018
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,000
I understood why you did what
you did.

1019
01:01:28,560 --> 01:01:31,600
Yeah, I know it had to be done.
That still doesn't mean I have

1020
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,080
to like you.
Yeah, and she said, I just don't

1021
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:37,000
like the way you did it.
And that didn't necessarily mean

1022
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:39,800
the way that you killed him.
It was the way you tried to

1023
01:01:39,800 --> 01:01:44,160
deflect and lie.
And see that he did it himself.

1024
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:49,360
Yeah, but when when she, I mean,
she literally lays it out.

1025
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:52,480
She was like, oh, he's lying.
That's not how it happened.

1026
01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:54,400
He wanted to come back and see
you.

1027
01:01:54,400 --> 01:01:57,680
He still had time, but Joe shot
him in the head.

1028
01:01:57,680 --> 01:02:00,880
And then when she looked at him
and she said, you swore, his

1029
01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,200
face changed because he was
like, oh, she's not talking

1030
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,680
about this.
I think that's when he realized,

1031
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:08,600
oh, she she understands what I
did.

1032
01:02:09,960 --> 01:02:13,120
Like damn.
Let's just take a moment and

1033
01:02:13,120 --> 01:02:20,560
reflect that he was unarmed and
he killed 19 Fireflies who were

1034
01:02:20,560 --> 01:02:24,360
armed.
Let let's just take a moment to

1035
01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,280
appreciate that.
I mean, we did that last season

1036
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,000
too.
We were like, he wasn't one man

1037
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:31,320
army.
He wasn't a group of Raiders.

1038
01:02:31,560 --> 01:02:35,960
That's believable.
One man for real.

1039
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:39,080
For real.
Yeah, yeah.

1040
01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:45,320
So, so again, I understand.
I understand what you are saying

1041
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:51,640
about seeing him in this kind of
lesson state.

1042
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:55,560
I guess in a way, you know, just
kind of more vulnerable, more

1043
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:01,120
compassionate, more I, I
wouldn't even go so far as to

1044
01:03:01,120 --> 01:03:05,760
say more human instead of being
this kind of, you know, blocked

1045
01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:08,440
off machine.
OK, this is what I do.

1046
01:03:08,440 --> 01:03:10,680
This is how I do it, that sort
of thing.

1047
01:03:10,960 --> 01:03:13,760
I get it.
I do understand it, but I like

1048
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:18,440
seeing the the back and forth
with him as well.

1049
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,880
This isn't even the same Joel
who was telling Maria that we

1050
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:28,680
can't keep taking people in.
You know, we just can't do it.

1051
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,520
It's not, this is not the same
Joel.

1052
01:03:32,280 --> 01:03:37,000
I mean, that Joel, that Joel was
literally looking at numbers and

1053
01:03:37,000 --> 01:03:38,600
saying we can't keep letting
people in.

1054
01:03:38,600 --> 01:03:41,640
Then what are they going to do?
They just had to stand out there

1055
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:43,600
and die.
But that could, but that could

1056
01:03:43,600 --> 01:03:46,440
be part of it too, because if
you think about this, that

1057
01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:49,560
conversation he had with Maria
that took place nine months

1058
01:03:49,600 --> 01:03:54,800
after what happened with Eugene
and with Ellie finding out.

1059
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:58,920
So maybe he took that harder
stance because of the way that

1060
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,800
those two things affected him.
You know, maybe he.

1061
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,760
Like he went back, he.
He went back to being hard ass

1062
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,440
Joe.
Yeah, like, OK, you know what?

1063
01:04:08,920 --> 01:04:12,240
She don't want to talk to me.
I don't have a reason to show

1064
01:04:12,240 --> 01:04:16,240
this side to anyone anymore.
So let me just be about business

1065
01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:20,400
as usual because she was already
living in the garage.

1066
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,880
It was very obvious from the
first episode of this season

1067
01:04:24,160 --> 01:04:28,360
that things were incredibly
strained, strained between them.

1068
01:04:29,000 --> 01:04:32,720
And then again, what happened at
the dance New Year's Eve, and

1069
01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:36,000
then what happened afterwards?
We only saw her walk past the

1070
01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,080
house.
Like, I don't want to talk to

1071
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,880
you.
And that's all we knew that

1072
01:04:39,880 --> 01:04:44,960
happened up until this episode.
But then she you know, we do see

1073
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:47,800
a a recreation of that scene.
He's there on the porch playing

1074
01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:53,160
the guitar.
She she comes walks past them

1075
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,600
and then she walks back on the
porch and he just kind of looks

1076
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,320
and he puts the guitar down and
goes to stand up next to her.

1077
01:05:01,480 --> 01:05:03,240
They have the conversation about
coffee.

1078
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:05,760
I was like, yeah, he really did
love coffee.

1079
01:05:05,760 --> 01:05:07,560
Did he she?
Did.

1080
01:05:08,600 --> 01:05:13,320
But then they start having the
conversation, one about Seth

1081
01:05:13,320 --> 01:05:15,960
because this, you know, again,
this is right after the whole

1082
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:23,480
Seth incident.
And then she talks to him and

1083
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,640
says about, you know, you're a
fucking asshole.

1084
01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,440
You lied to me and you looked me
dead in my eye with that same

1085
01:05:29,440 --> 01:05:30,360
face.
And you lied.

1086
01:05:31,960 --> 01:05:35,080
And she was like, look, you're
gonna tell me what happened with

1087
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:37,520
the Fireflies.
And if you lie to me, that'll

1088
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,760
be, that'll be it for us.
That's the end of us.

1089
01:05:41,760 --> 01:05:46,040
And he looks so scared.
And I don't think it was that

1090
01:05:46,080 --> 01:05:47,840
because he was going to have to
tell her.

1091
01:05:47,840 --> 01:05:50,600
I think he was more scared of
what her reaction was going to

1092
01:05:50,600 --> 01:05:53,640
be because he knew it was going
to be volatile, or at least

1093
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,160
that's what we thought.
I think that it was a fear of

1094
01:05:57,160 --> 01:06:01,640
losing her that that was looming
over him.

1095
01:06:01,720 --> 01:06:04,920
Yeah.
Like he can stand her hating him

1096
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:08,200
and walking around and giving
him the cold shoulder, but I

1097
01:06:08,200 --> 01:06:10,400
don't think he can take losing
her.

1098
01:06:10,600 --> 01:06:12,600
Like her being completely out of
his life.

1099
01:06:12,600 --> 01:06:17,960
Really out of his life.
Yeah, yeah, but she does ask the

1100
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:22,080
question.
She was like, so about them

1101
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:28,040
fireflies.
So did did did Raiders come?

1102
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,680
And he looked at her for a long
time before he answered.

1103
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,440
Shake his head no.
He didn't say the words this

1104
01:06:37,960 --> 01:06:40,000
shake his head though.
Shake his head.

1105
01:06:41,040 --> 01:06:44,080
Then what else did she say?
She she asked about the Raiders,

1106
01:06:44,760 --> 01:06:49,240
she asked about whether or not
there were any more immune Then

1107
01:06:50,360 --> 01:06:53,600
she asked him whether or not
they would have been able to

1108
01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:56,880
make make a cure.
And again he hesitated before he

1109
01:06:56,880 --> 01:06:59,280
nodded yes.
And I was like, he should have

1110
01:06:59,280 --> 01:07:02,680
told her maybe.
But I, I think at this point he

1111
01:07:02,680 --> 01:07:04,800
was like, OK, you know what?
There's no mincing words.

1112
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:09,480
If she believes that there was a
cure, OK, there was a cure.

1113
01:07:09,640 --> 01:07:11,640
Because at this point, it's not
going to matter either way.

1114
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,520
He did what he did and, and lied
to her.

1115
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,520
I think she would have, I think
she would have even gotten over

1116
01:07:17,520 --> 01:07:20,200
it back then if he had not lied
to her.

1117
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:22,880
I think that was the biggest
betrayal.

1118
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,480
But then when she said so did
you.

1119
01:07:26,760 --> 01:07:29,800
And she didn't even have to
finish the the the question

1120
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,200
because he knew she was asking.
Did you kill everyone?

1121
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,040
Yes.
He's nodded head and Marlene.

1122
01:07:36,240 --> 01:07:41,400
And then he opens his mouth.
Making a cure would have killed

1123
01:07:41,400 --> 01:07:43,800
you.
And she was like, then I was

1124
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,320
supposed to die, but you took
that away from me.

1125
01:07:46,320 --> 01:07:47,640
You took that away from
everyone.

1126
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:52,640
He was like, yeah, you know, I
had a choice to do that.

1127
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:59,680
He was like, I'd do it again.
As a father would say, yeah and.

1128
01:08:00,640 --> 01:08:03,560
She was like, you're selfish.
He was like, because I love you.

1129
01:08:03,560 --> 01:08:06,040
And I would have been like,
yeah, that's being selfish,

1130
01:08:06,120 --> 01:08:08,760
being selfish.
Again, why should I have to give

1131
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:11,080
up my child to save the rest of
the world?

1132
01:08:11,080 --> 01:08:18,560
Like I understand the the
ethical choice in that, but

1133
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,439
again, as a parent, I'm not
sacrificing my children for

1134
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:24,880
y'all.
No, what the fuck no.

1135
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:31,240
No emotions, always.
Emotions can almost always

1136
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:35,840
override rational thought,
especially if you're a parent.

1137
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:40,439
Yeah.
How many parents do stupid stuff

1138
01:08:41,120 --> 01:08:42,960
because of their child?
Yeah.

1139
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:45,960
Going up in the schools and
trying to beat up on children,

1140
01:08:45,960 --> 01:08:50,040
bullying their kids, going on
buses, pulling kids off buses

1141
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:55,359
because they bullying their kid.
Parents, We are emotional and

1142
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:58,760
sometimes.
Don't make the best decisions.

1143
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:02,520
One time my child got in the car
after dance and she was upset

1144
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:08,040
because the the dance teacher he
had went off on her about

1145
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:09,840
something.
I was like, what do you say?

1146
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,600
I was really get out that car.
She she stopped crying.

1147
01:09:12,640 --> 01:09:14,439
Oh, no, no, it's fine.
It's fine.

1148
01:09:14,720 --> 01:09:16,640
You don't have to go.
I was like, no, what?

1149
01:09:16,640 --> 01:09:21,080
What do you say to you again?
I turned around, went back to

1150
01:09:21,080 --> 01:09:23,160
the dance studio.
I was really get out the car.

1151
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:26,520
What was I thinking?
Yeah.

1152
01:09:26,560 --> 01:09:28,040
What?
What we doing?

1153
01:09:28,040 --> 01:09:29,760
What we doing?
Yeah.

1154
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:34,640
So, yeah, he's he's he's totally
right.

1155
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:39,479
I mean, we can debate whether or
not he should have done it, but

1156
01:09:39,479 --> 01:09:43,920
you can't deny the fact that
this to him is his child and

1157
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:46,920
he's not going to sit here and
let her die whether it would

1158
01:09:46,920 --> 01:09:52,920
save everybody or not.
And I think again, that's a

1159
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:56,240
realization for Ellie because
yeah, she could have been, she

1160
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:57,280
could have been mad.
She could have.

1161
01:09:57,280 --> 01:10:02,200
And and he told her, he said, I
know I'm going to lose you

1162
01:10:02,240 --> 01:10:07,920
buying this, but I would make
the same choice because, like

1163
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:12,440
you said, if if she got to be
walking around mad at him, at

1164
01:10:12,440 --> 01:10:17,440
least she's alive, you know, and
I think he can deal with that

1165
01:10:17,440 --> 01:10:20,760
better than he could the fact of
not ever seen her again,

1166
01:10:21,160 --> 01:10:23,360
especially again, she didn't she
didn't have a choice.

1167
01:10:23,360 --> 01:10:27,560
They didn't even present it to
her as OK, So this is what we

1168
01:10:27,560 --> 01:10:31,360
have to do to save people.
Are you OK with doing this?

1169
01:10:32,080 --> 01:10:32,680
They.
They.

1170
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:36,280
Need for the choice.
And, and from his perspective,

1171
01:10:37,560 --> 01:10:42,800
his his daughter died in his
arms and he couldn't do anything

1172
01:10:42,800 --> 01:10:45,960
about it.
This one he can do.

1173
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,520
He could do something about and
he did.

1174
01:10:49,640 --> 01:10:52,640
Yeah.
Yeah, for some reason it makes

1175
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:57,440
me think of Spider Man, the way
home and how Andrew Garfield,

1176
01:10:57,440 --> 01:11:01,720
Spider Man couldn't save Gwen,
but he could save you, MJ.

1177
01:11:01,760 --> 01:11:05,400
MJ yeah, you know, second,
second chances, man.

1178
01:11:05,520 --> 01:11:08,840
Second chances.
You get you get a chance to do

1179
01:11:08,840 --> 01:11:11,720
it differently.
You get a chance to maybe make a

1180
01:11:11,720 --> 01:11:16,080
difference.
And again, for for a kid who has

1181
01:11:16,080 --> 01:11:21,080
grown up her whole life being
told that, oh, you're humanity's

1182
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:24,240
last chance, oh, you can make a
cure or this is your destiny,

1183
01:11:24,240 --> 01:11:27,840
this is your purpose.
And y'all not putting anything

1184
01:11:27,840 --> 01:11:30,440
else on this child, y'all not
giving this child any other kind

1185
01:11:30,440 --> 01:11:32,920
of love, any other kind of
whatever.

1186
01:11:34,640 --> 01:11:39,400
I think that probably made an
impression on her when he was

1187
01:11:39,400 --> 01:11:42,520
like, yeah, I know it's wrong
maybe, but I'll do it again.

1188
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:45,480
I would I would do it again.
No hesitation.

1189
01:11:46,240 --> 01:11:49,800
Like this is someone who loves
you that much that they are

1190
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:55,000
willing to let the world burn
just to see you safe.

1191
01:11:58,440 --> 01:12:01,840
I think that's why she told him
she was willing to try to

1192
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:07,880
forgive him because this for,
for this man to go from, oh,

1193
01:12:07,880 --> 01:12:12,880
your cargo, I don't give a fuck
about you to Oh yes, I killed 19

1194
01:12:12,880 --> 01:12:16,480
people, including a Doctor Who
could cure this thing to make

1195
01:12:16,480 --> 01:12:20,200
sure that you're alive.
She may not understand it.

1196
01:12:20,480 --> 01:12:27,880
She doesn't have to understand
it, but you can't deny how

1197
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:37,320
massive that confession is and
what it means then to have that

1198
01:12:37,320 --> 01:12:40,120
taken away from her the next
day.

1199
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:47,200
And then, of course, the episode
ends with her walking back to

1200
01:12:47,200 --> 01:12:49,280
the theater.
I was like, yeah, she killed

1201
01:12:49,280 --> 01:12:52,800
her.
She killed Nora and she's coming

1202
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,400
back.
Nora was dead.

1203
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,680
I know, I know, I know.
Yeah.

1204
01:12:58,680 --> 01:13:03,640
Anyway, she was dead, but I
think she she made it a lot

1205
01:13:03,640 --> 01:13:05,800
worse.
The Walking Dead.

1206
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:11,880
She ain't walking nowhere.
What Ellie did, she's not

1207
01:13:11,880 --> 01:13:14,360
walking anywhere.
She's gonna be sitting in this

1208
01:13:14,520 --> 01:13:20,520
that spot until she's 90.
She she can't go anywhere.

1209
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:25,120
But again, like I said, I I love
this episode.

1210
01:13:25,120 --> 01:13:30,920
This was probably one of my
favorite episodes like ever.

1211
01:13:32,280 --> 01:13:35,160
Definitely top tier for this
particular show.

1212
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,520
I just.
Yeah, I can say top tier too.

1213
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:41,400
But to be honest with you, I
don't really think it's seeing

1214
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:45,440
the whole lot at this point.
I mean, we made it through this

1215
01:13:45,440 --> 01:13:53,640
whole season and we got to see
revenge Ellie for 5 minutes.

1216
01:13:53,640 --> 01:13:56,360
Well, we still have the next
episode, so and.

1217
01:13:56,720 --> 01:14:00,520
Then we going to go a whole
season without seeing her so.

1218
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:10,720
I don't know how that's going to
go because far as I know they

1219
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:12,680
have not been renewed for season
4.

1220
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,760
Or wait or did they wait a
minute, wait a minute.

1221
01:14:14,760 --> 01:14:19,600
I'm trying to remember 'cause
we, we've covered a lot of shows

1222
01:14:19,600 --> 01:14:24,680
in the last year that are either
in renewal limbo or they're

1223
01:14:24,680 --> 01:14:31,560
getting renewed like in advance.
So I I don't remember if they're

1224
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:39,120
going past season 3.
I know they have season 3 now,

1225
01:14:39,600 --> 01:14:40,680
dude.
I don't know if they're going to

1226
01:14:40,680 --> 01:14:43,320
have the season 4.
It would depend on whether or

1227
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,720
not they have the season 4.
Because if they have a season 4,

1228
01:14:47,120 --> 01:14:52,000
we're we'll, we'll see Ellie
bits and pieces, yeah, but we

1229
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:55,400
really won't see her until 4:00.
It'll it'll be mostly Abby's

1230
01:14:55,400 --> 01:14:59,760
story for season 3, OK.
OK, now if there's No 4, we'll

1231
01:14:59,760 --> 01:15:04,760
get Abby most of the season and
then we get the climax of the

1232
01:15:04,760 --> 01:15:06,200
two of them at the end of the
season.

1233
01:15:06,400 --> 01:15:15,600
OK, OK yeah, But I I like seeing
childish Ellie because I feel

1234
01:15:15,600 --> 01:15:19,280
like that's something she's
never been able to explore.

1235
01:15:19,800 --> 01:15:22,400
So it's like when she was
looking at the dinosaur when she

1236
01:15:22,400 --> 01:15:26,760
was in the space caps capsule,
the looks on her face, like the

1237
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:30,360
goofy look she had on her face
when she did the helmet.

1238
01:15:30,680 --> 01:15:34,680
I thought it was cute.
And I'm I'm gonna say this.

1239
01:15:35,280 --> 01:15:44,040
I am so, so sick of the dialogue
online talking about Bella

1240
01:15:44,040 --> 01:15:47,480
Ramsey's acting, talking,
talking about her looks and how

1241
01:15:47,480 --> 01:15:49,760
she doesn't look like the video
game character.

1242
01:15:49,760 --> 01:15:54,960
And people are saying such nasty
things about this girl and I'm

1243
01:15:54,960 --> 01:16:01,000
so fucking sick of it.
I'm like, she looks the way

1244
01:16:01,000 --> 01:16:05,920
she's supposed to look.
OK, because this is again, this

1245
01:16:05,920 --> 01:16:10,280
is a world that doesn't have all
of the stuff that we have.

1246
01:16:10,720 --> 01:16:13,280
And I feel like a lot of people
are saying, you know, people who

1247
01:16:13,280 --> 01:16:15,440
are on there like, oh, she's not
pretty enough for whatever.

1248
01:16:15,680 --> 01:16:17,840
She's living in a fucking
apocalypse.

1249
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:19,800
So no, she's not going to be
glammed out.

1250
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:21,880
She's not going to be make up
out, she's not going to be

1251
01:16:21,880 --> 01:16:24,960
wearing, you know, she's not
going to be wearing body shapers

1252
01:16:24,960 --> 01:16:28,800
and fake eyelashes and plump.
And that's what I feel like

1253
01:16:28,800 --> 01:16:31,960
people are people are expecting
like y'all want her to be

1254
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:35,920
glammed up.
And no, that's not the point of

1255
01:16:35,920 --> 01:16:39,600
the story.
She's a regular kid who is

1256
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:43,560
trying to find her way in this
world after her destiny.

1257
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:47,120
Whatever has been taken from
her, what are y'all expecting

1258
01:16:47,120 --> 01:16:49,640
her to do?
Like I just I don't understand.

1259
01:16:49,840 --> 01:16:53,840
Like she's playing a kid who is
grown up way before she should

1260
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:56,800
have.
And now as a 19 year old, she's

1261
01:16:56,800 --> 01:17:01,080
going back and experiencing
things that most of us

1262
01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:04,880
experienced in our childhood and
she has the childlike wonder and

1263
01:17:05,200 --> 01:17:09,520
I just I don't understand that
the hate 1st on.

1264
01:17:10,480 --> 01:17:12,440
The show, first we have to
remember that a lot of these

1265
01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:16,680
people are grifters, that most
of them, they're only doing the

1266
01:17:16,680 --> 01:17:20,120
negative things because that's
what gives engaged man clicks

1267
01:17:20,920 --> 01:17:23,400
and gives the money.
That's number one.

1268
01:17:23,440 --> 01:17:28,200
Number two, yeah, it is true
that even the game, well, when

1269
01:17:28,200 --> 01:17:30,960
we have the gamers on, they'll
tell you that.

1270
01:17:31,040 --> 01:17:34,240
I don't know.
I don't know they made because I

1271
01:17:34,240 --> 01:17:36,720
think they actually liked it,
but there's some, there are a

1272
01:17:36,720 --> 01:17:39,640
lot of people who played the
games who didn't like The Last

1273
01:17:39,640 --> 01:17:43,400
of Us Part 2 because of some of
the choices they've made.

1274
01:17:43,400 --> 01:17:49,040
OK, so that that is a thing.
And even back then people

1275
01:17:49,040 --> 01:17:51,720
complained about it, but it was
on a smaller scale.

1276
01:17:52,480 --> 01:17:55,880
OK, But we live in an age now
where you know, after seeing the

1277
01:17:55,880 --> 01:18:02,080
Acolyte and all the MCU stuff,
where negativity drives

1278
01:18:03,040 --> 01:18:06,840
engagement.
And I'm so sick of that trend.

1279
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,240
I'm there are a lot of people
out there that that's what they

1280
01:18:10,240 --> 01:18:11,520
do.
That's how they're making their

1281
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,560
money.
They're creating these

1282
01:18:14,680 --> 01:18:17,920
situations where it's just
negative engagement and that's

1283
01:18:17,920 --> 01:18:20,160
what gets the money.
That's what gets some views.

1284
01:18:20,440 --> 01:18:23,360
That's what gives them attention
and clicks.

1285
01:18:23,680 --> 01:18:27,800
And they're like people have
been exposed to don't have any.

1286
01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:31,520
They don't even watch the show
and they complain about the show

1287
01:18:31,800 --> 01:18:34,240
and they talk about all the
stuff that's wrong with the

1288
01:18:34,240 --> 01:18:36,200
show.
They haven't played the game.

1289
01:18:36,360 --> 01:18:39,880
They don't watch the show, but
they get millions of views and

1290
01:18:39,880 --> 01:18:42,600
clicks because it's negative
engagement.

1291
01:18:43,240 --> 01:18:47,400
And it's sad that we live in a
time where, you know, we could

1292
01:18:47,400 --> 01:18:50,160
have we did the thing.
The most negative thing we did

1293
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:56,120
was the stand and and that was
genuinely because we didn't, we

1294
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:57,920
genuinely had problems with it,
but.

1295
01:18:58,280 --> 01:19:00,960
We had problems with the story
I.

1296
01:19:00,960 --> 01:19:03,200
But we didn't make stuff up, you
know what I'm saying?

1297
01:19:03,840 --> 01:19:05,680
Yeah, I don't.
I don't understand people who

1298
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:10,440
are attacking the real life
person just because they're not

1299
01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:13,000
what you had in your mind.
Get over it.

1300
01:19:13,360 --> 01:19:15,840
No, some of them are doing it
just because.

1301
01:19:15,960 --> 01:19:20,080
Just because it's the thing to
do, they probably don't care one

1302
01:19:20,080 --> 01:19:22,640
way or another.
Because everyone loved her as

1303
01:19:22,640 --> 01:19:28,040
late as as from Game of Thrones.
Well, everybody loved her and.

1304
01:19:28,040 --> 01:19:31,760
And she's gotten raised in some
of for some of the other work

1305
01:19:31,760 --> 01:19:35,800
that she has done.
Yeah, I don't even think she's

1306
01:19:35,800 --> 01:19:39,760
bad.
I mean, she's and, and most of

1307
01:19:39,760 --> 01:19:42,160
the stuff that's going on with
her in the show is not really

1308
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:45,160
her acting.
It's the directing and some of

1309
01:19:45,160 --> 01:19:47,000
the writing.
It's not her.

1310
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:50,600
She's doing what she's supposed
to do based on how she's being

1311
01:19:50,600 --> 01:19:53,200
directed.
But also it's the story.

1312
01:19:53,200 --> 01:19:57,560
This is, this is a girl who is
not supposed to 1.

1313
01:19:57,560 --> 01:20:00,640
She's not well adjusted and not
supposed to be acting well

1314
01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:04,680
adjusted.
She's not well socialized and

1315
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:07,440
it's not supposed to be acting
well socialized.

1316
01:20:07,440 --> 01:20:10,160
And we see that when she
interacts with certain people,

1317
01:20:10,160 --> 01:20:12,840
like she's OK with Joel, she's
OK with Dina, she's OK with

1318
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,640
Tommy, but with everybody else,
she's very awkward.

1319
01:20:16,040 --> 01:20:17,480
That's what her character is
supposed.

1320
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:19,960
To be.
But it's the personal attacks,

1321
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,640
like calling her ugly and saying
that she can't act.

1322
01:20:23,640 --> 01:20:25,600
I think a lot of that stuff
bothers me.

1323
01:20:26,080 --> 01:20:29,320
It does.
The best, the the best criticism

1324
01:20:29,320 --> 01:20:33,320
is about the character itself is
like, oh, well, she spent all

1325
01:20:33,320 --> 01:20:36,720
the time with Joel, you know, he
taught her a lot of stuff.

1326
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:42,600
You don't think she should know
how to triangulate singles after

1327
01:20:42,600 --> 01:20:46,000
being around Joel, who basically
build a radio?

1328
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:49,600
Come on, guys.
Some of the stuff that she can't

1329
01:20:49,600 --> 01:20:51,920
read a map.
You can tell me she didn't spend

1330
01:20:51,920 --> 01:20:54,480
all this time with this man and
he didn't teach her how to read

1331
01:20:54,480 --> 01:20:56,320
a map.
You know what I'm saying?

1332
01:20:57,160 --> 01:21:00,640
That that that that's the part
that if you're going to, and I

1333
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,320
went through this with the
Acolyte, there are things you

1334
01:21:03,320 --> 01:21:08,080
can legitimately criticize.
You don't have to call her ugly

1335
01:21:08,680 --> 01:21:10,400
because that doesn't have
anything to do with the show,

1336
01:21:10,400 --> 01:21:13,960
No.
No, and that's personal

1337
01:21:13,960 --> 01:21:15,920
preference too because I think
she's a cute kid.

1338
01:21:16,040 --> 01:21:19,760
I say kid because she's younger
than my children but I mean

1339
01:21:19,920 --> 01:21:23,560
she's a cute kid.
Like what are y'all expecting?

1340
01:21:24,480 --> 01:21:27,280
I just, it just it's it's so
tiring.

1341
01:21:27,280 --> 01:21:30,400
It's like literally, I try to
ignore all that, but it's so

1342
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:32,640
much of it in my feet.
And a.

1343
01:21:32,640 --> 01:21:36,080
Lot of it is coming from grown
men.

1344
01:21:36,080 --> 01:21:41,040
Grown, I know.
Cisgender white males.

1345
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:42,920
I'm.
I'm gonna say it.

1346
01:21:43,600 --> 01:21:45,000
Sick of it I'm.
Gonna say it.

1347
01:21:45,440 --> 01:21:47,840
I'm so sick of it.
I really am.

1348
01:21:47,840 --> 01:21:52,240
So I just, I just wanted to say
that because it's just I, I

1349
01:21:52,240 --> 01:21:58,000
think she's one of the better
young actresses out there and I

1350
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,400
think she's doing a great job.
And I'm just like I.

1351
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:01,960
I just, I don't understand the
hate.

1352
01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:06,320
I would even say, you know,
because my child is taking AP,

1353
01:22:07,720 --> 01:22:15,160
she was taking AP language
artist and she was talking about

1354
01:22:15,560 --> 01:22:18,080
arguing and debating.
And we talked about the

1355
01:22:18,080 --> 01:22:20,560
different kinds of debates you
can have or whatever.

1356
01:22:20,960 --> 01:22:26,360
And the weakest, one of the
weakest forms is ad hominem when

1357
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,360
you attack a person in a debate,
when you start attacking them.

1358
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:35,480
So to me it's like that if if
that is the best you can do as

1359
01:22:35,480 --> 01:22:39,800
your criticism of the show is
talking about Billy Ramsey not

1360
01:22:39,800 --> 01:22:42,280
being able to act and how ugly
she is now.

1361
01:22:42,280 --> 01:22:44,280
She doesn't look like the
character from the show.

1362
01:22:44,560 --> 01:22:49,480
If that's all you got, then why
am I listening to you like you

1363
01:22:49,480 --> 01:22:54,040
don't have any legitimate
criticism about the show, about

1364
01:22:54,040 --> 01:22:56,480
the writing, about the
directing?

1365
01:22:56,840 --> 01:22:58,760
Right.
But you want to call her ugly?

1366
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:02,720
You can just spend 30 minutes of
your 45 minute podcast talking

1367
01:23:02,720 --> 01:23:05,560
about Billy Ramsey.
Well, you know.

1368
01:23:05,760 --> 01:23:07,800
I I saw.
It's crazy.

1369
01:23:08,120 --> 01:23:11,400
I saw a comment somewhere it
says This is why everybody

1370
01:23:11,400 --> 01:23:17,200
doesn't need a mic.
True, you know, or This is why

1371
01:23:17,200 --> 01:23:21,720
everybody doesn't need a blog or
I mean, I get it, freedom of

1372
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:24,680
speech, that sort of thing, but
it's just it's so old.

1373
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:27,280
It's so.
It is old and we we spent all

1374
01:23:27,280 --> 01:23:31,000
this time you showed, they
showed the true colors with

1375
01:23:31,000 --> 01:23:34,280
Acolyte because you didn't want
to compare.

1376
01:23:34,280 --> 01:23:37,600
No, no, no, let's let's let's go
back a little bit further.

1377
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:41,960
Let's talk about Rose on in Star
Wars or.

1378
01:23:42,800 --> 01:23:45,600
Or.
Or we can go a little bit far.

1379
01:23:45,920 --> 01:23:51,240
It's just, but they've been like
unusually cruel with this one

1380
01:23:51,320 --> 01:23:54,080
and I'm about sick of it.
I'm I'm so sick of it.

1381
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:55,480
Yeah.
And it's like, it's like the

1382
01:23:55,480 --> 01:23:59,600
most more popular something is,
the easier it is for them to do.

1383
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:04,480
I mean, even when they switched
Splash Mountain to Tiana's,

1384
01:24:04,960 --> 01:24:08,080
whatever it is in this world,
and they came out of the

1385
01:24:08,080 --> 01:24:10,680
woodwork to talk about how
Disney became a world.

1386
01:24:11,040 --> 01:24:14,520
Oh, so you really wanted to hold
on to the racist ride that

1387
01:24:14,520 --> 01:24:17,280
that's what you really wanted.
You want everyone to go And

1388
01:24:17,280 --> 01:24:20,240
this, you know, let's relate
this all to the largest

1389
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:23,800
plantation house burning down to
the ground.

1390
01:24:24,360 --> 01:24:26,760
Oh, no.
Where are they going to have

1391
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:30,080
their weddings and receptions?
Oh, really?

1392
01:24:30,080 --> 01:24:34,840
At the place that was literally
built by slaves with a man who

1393
01:24:34,840 --> 01:24:39,200
took 200 of his slaves and left
his wife at the plantation by

1394
01:24:39,200 --> 01:24:42,160
herself because he didn't want
to fight in the Civil War.

1395
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:46,640
He he sent his three sons off to
die because he didn't want to.

1396
01:24:46,920 --> 01:24:47,880
Come on, guys.
Yeah.

1397
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:49,040
Come on.
Yeah.

1398
01:24:49,480 --> 01:24:54,840
Let's let's not hold on to this
this sometimes.

1399
01:24:54,960 --> 01:25:02,240
But you know what sometimes like
in sinners when they talked

1400
01:25:02,240 --> 01:25:03,840
about.
We just go all over the place

1401
01:25:03,880 --> 01:25:08,000
today, hey?
Look, Chicago is just, they just

1402
01:25:08,000 --> 01:25:11,480
changed the tall buildings,
plantations, right?

1403
01:25:12,000 --> 01:25:15,880
So we just came back because the
devil you know.

1404
01:25:15,880 --> 01:25:19,000
Yeah, better the devil you know.
Better the devil you know.

1405
01:25:19,480 --> 01:25:23,600
And so guess what guys?
Y'all keep showing y'all asses,

1406
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,560
showing y'all faces, showing us
who y'all really are.

1407
01:25:27,360 --> 01:25:30,400
So we know who you are, we know
what you believe in.

1408
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:32,680
We know.
We know whose side you want.

1409
01:25:33,000 --> 01:25:35,840
So if you want, if this is how
you want to make your money,

1410
01:25:36,360 --> 01:25:40,800
just remember if you lie in bed
with dogs, you're going to get

1411
01:25:40,800 --> 01:25:45,040
fleas.
Yeah, I love that.

1412
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:48,320
But all all that to say, there
will be no.

1413
01:25:48,320 --> 01:25:51,160
I'm sorry, I, I, I'm putting,
I'm putting my soapbox away.

1414
01:25:51,320 --> 01:25:53,640
That's OK.
I I was going to say just all

1415
01:25:53,640 --> 01:25:56,160
all that to say, there will be
no Bella Ramsey hate on this

1416
01:25:56,160 --> 01:25:58,360
side.
Like we can talk about the story

1417
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,280
all we want.
We can hate the story if we

1418
01:26:01,280 --> 01:26:05,920
don't like it.
But yeah, I'm, I'm just, I'm

1419
01:26:05,920 --> 01:26:09,280
really getting sick of seeing
people just be so negative.

1420
01:26:09,280 --> 01:26:11,600
And I just, I had to say
something about it because it's

1421
01:26:11,600 --> 01:26:13,120
too much of it out there right
now.

1422
01:26:13,400 --> 01:26:16,760
Even the other stuff with, you
know, people like, oh, Pedro

1423
01:26:16,760 --> 01:26:18,920
Pascal, I'm so sick of seeing
him and everything.

1424
01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:22,240
Then get you some quality actors
to put in some shit.

1425
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:27,960
That's just how I feel about it.
But anyway, I'll, we, we went

1426
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:30,240
off into the weeds.
I'd, I'd like I said, I just had

1427
01:26:30,240 --> 01:26:33,360
to, I had to mention that
because it's really been pissing

1428
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,560
me off.
But going back to the episode

1429
01:26:37,360 --> 01:26:40,160
again, one of my favorite
episodes, I loved it.

1430
01:26:40,160 --> 01:26:44,600
I loved seeing the emotional
highs and the emotional lows and

1431
01:26:44,600 --> 01:26:49,600
everything in between.
You know, seeing Joe get to be a

1432
01:26:49,600 --> 01:26:52,920
dad and I I guess a little bit
more detail because we didn't

1433
01:26:52,920 --> 01:26:56,480
really get that much time with
him and Sarah just being normal

1434
01:26:56,480 --> 01:26:59,880
because literally when we're
introduced to them, it's the

1435
01:26:59,880 --> 01:27:04,120
morning of when everything goes
to shit.

1436
01:27:04,120 --> 01:27:07,240
And of course she ends up dying
later on that night because he's

1437
01:27:07,240 --> 01:27:08,560
trying, they're trying to
escape.

1438
01:27:08,560 --> 01:27:10,920
So I.
Luckily he forgot.

1439
01:27:10,920 --> 01:27:14,600
Luckily he forgot to pick up a
cake because they'd both be

1440
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:16,480
dead.
Luckily.

1441
01:27:17,720 --> 01:27:19,560
Yeah.
The saying, I'm just throwing it

1442
01:27:19,560 --> 01:27:23,720
out there.
Yeah, that's that's true.

1443
01:27:24,160 --> 01:27:32,680
But yeah, I, I like seeing him
be a dad and I like getting the

1444
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:35,640
back story because again, I was
like, I need to know how she

1445
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:38,520
found out.
I need to know that story 'cause

1446
01:27:38,520 --> 01:27:41,240
I, I needed to understand the
rift between them.

1447
01:27:42,720 --> 01:27:51,040
And now I feel like if I go back
and rewatch the the earlier

1448
01:27:51,040 --> 01:27:54,040
season 2 episodes, I feel like I
might look at them in a

1449
01:27:54,040 --> 01:27:56,240
different light or look at her
in a different light.

1450
01:27:56,240 --> 01:28:00,440
Because now I have this last
conversation to keep in mind.

1451
01:28:00,800 --> 01:28:03,400
Because even when she talked to
GAIL in the hospital and GAIL

1452
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:07,640
was like, so you guys had a, you
guys had a little tiff at the

1453
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:09,280
dance.
Was that the last time you

1454
01:28:09,280 --> 01:28:11,920
talked to him?
And remember, she was, she was

1455
01:28:11,920 --> 01:28:14,120
on the hospital bed.
She was like, Yep.

1456
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:17,920
And I was like, oh, OK, So
that's why she's feeling that.

1457
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:20,680
What?
No, she's she again, she's

1458
01:28:20,680 --> 01:28:22,560
keeping certain things to
herself.

1459
01:28:23,480 --> 01:28:25,680
She had, she went and had a
whole conversation with him.

1460
01:28:26,520 --> 01:28:30,440
She found out what he meant when
he said he saved her.

1461
01:28:30,440 --> 01:28:32,680
She knew what what that was when
GAIL asked.

1462
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:34,440
But I figured she knew at that
point.

1463
01:28:34,600 --> 01:28:36,840
I just didn't know how she how
she found out.

1464
01:28:37,520 --> 01:28:41,680
So now I'm glad I know.
And now I can kind of keep that

1465
01:28:41,680 --> 01:28:45,760
in my mind when I see how she's
gonna be in the next episode.

1466
01:28:45,760 --> 01:28:47,960
Because this is the season
finale coming up.

1467
01:28:48,560 --> 01:28:51,800
I'm kind of upset that they only
had 7 episodes this season.

1468
01:28:51,800 --> 01:28:57,920
Like y'all couldn't do one more,
one more, but we're getting the

1469
01:28:57,920 --> 01:29:03,320
season finale.
Like I said in the promo, I

1470
01:29:03,320 --> 01:29:07,200
didn't see Tommy.
I did see some Jessie, did see

1471
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:09,720
Dina.
So we will go back to them and

1472
01:29:09,720 --> 01:29:12,400
we will see some other of the
conflicts.

1473
01:29:12,920 --> 01:29:15,720
At this point, I don't know if I
feel like she's going to find

1474
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:20,760
anybody else in Abby's group.
Maybe 1?

1475
01:29:20,800 --> 01:29:25,360
Right now.
Yeah, like by the next episode

1476
01:29:25,360 --> 01:29:27,800
I.
Don't know.

1477
01:29:28,680 --> 01:29:31,560
I did see her and Jesse running
in that theater though.

1478
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,400
So it's like, who got in the
theater?

1479
01:29:34,840 --> 01:29:38,760
Was it the was it the wolves or
was it the Seraphights or was it

1480
01:29:38,760 --> 01:29:42,040
the the Coriceps?
I don't know that I heard

1481
01:29:42,040 --> 01:29:44,600
someone say this is, was it
Jesse?

1482
01:29:44,960 --> 01:29:47,720
He's like, this is a war.
We, we not involved.

1483
01:29:47,720 --> 01:29:50,720
We, we don't need to, we don't
need to be in the middle of

1484
01:29:50,720 --> 01:29:51,800
somebody else's.
War.

1485
01:29:51,800 --> 01:29:53,800
He was like, I'm not about to
die for this.

1486
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:56,640
Right.
Which means he's probably.

1487
01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:58,800
Going to die, which means he's
going to die.

1488
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:02,000
I hope not, but yeah.
He's just there to die.

1489
01:30:02,120 --> 01:30:05,200
That's all he is.
Somebody has to die.

1490
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,160
I don't want that to happen, but
I mean.

1491
01:30:10,160 --> 01:30:13,360
It bothers me because I thought
they would try to do like 1

1492
01:30:13,360 --> 01:30:18,880
episode per team member stalking
them down, which I think I would

1493
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,320
have appreciated more because
it's sort of in line with the

1494
01:30:22,320 --> 01:30:24,400
game, but you know, it is what
it is.

1495
01:30:24,680 --> 01:30:26,400
I mean, we might get that in the
third season.

1496
01:30:26,400 --> 01:30:28,840
Like you said, if, if,
especially if the third season

1497
01:30:28,840 --> 01:30:34,000
focuses on Abby, it'll probably
focus on her group as well.

1498
01:30:34,680 --> 01:30:40,400
Just kind of like, because I
almost feel like with the way

1499
01:30:40,400 --> 01:30:44,120
that things were from the time
that we're introduced to that

1500
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:48,960
group, Abby is the one who's
mostly angry, which of course we

1501
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:52,080
understand because we learned
that her father was the doctor

1502
01:30:52,080 --> 01:30:54,680
that was killed.
So we understand her anger.

1503
01:30:54,680 --> 01:30:58,600
Everybody else is upset.
They're angry, but they're not

1504
01:30:58,600 --> 01:31:01,200
the, oh, we're going to go hunt
him down type angry.

1505
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:04,720
Abby is the one who's that?
And then they're all like, OK,

1506
01:31:04,720 --> 01:31:08,320
well we got your back, we'll
help you again.

1507
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:12,440
I don't know if I feel like they
thought she would ever find Joe

1508
01:31:12,440 --> 01:31:17,680
and especially not so quickly
like she found him on such a

1509
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:20,160
weird luck.
Street.

1510
01:31:20,160 --> 01:31:23,680
It was a lucky.
It was just a lucky thing that.

1511
01:31:23,680 --> 01:31:27,120
Yeah, that she happened to find
him and that she was able to do

1512
01:31:27,120 --> 01:31:29,840
what she did, but all of them
looked uncomfortable.

1513
01:31:30,840 --> 01:31:35,720
And I wonder how that translated
after they left and once they

1514
01:31:35,720 --> 01:31:39,320
got back.
Like usually something like that

1515
01:31:40,280 --> 01:31:44,000
will really bond people together
or to push them apart.

1516
01:31:44,920 --> 01:31:50,920
And I have a feeling maybe I
don't know about Nora, but Nora

1517
01:31:50,920 --> 01:31:53,440
could have distanced herself
with Abby but still been like,

1518
01:31:53,600 --> 01:31:57,840
I'm still going to protect her
because she deserved to have

1519
01:31:57,840 --> 01:32:02,960
that revenge on on Joel.
The other girl, I can't remember

1520
01:32:02,960 --> 01:32:04,800
her name.
I don't think she was Mill.

1521
01:32:05,560 --> 01:32:07,000
Huh, was it?
Mill.

1522
01:32:08,320 --> 01:32:13,800
Maybe, but I don't know if I
feel like she would have stayed

1523
01:32:13,800 --> 01:32:17,600
friends with Abby because that
was too much for her.

1524
01:32:17,640 --> 01:32:22,200
Like she was the one out of the
group that was the most visibly

1525
01:32:22,360 --> 01:32:25,000
uncomfortable and upset with
what was going on.

1526
01:32:26,880 --> 01:32:33,680
Yeah, the other two guys and
maybe like I said, I feel like

1527
01:32:33,680 --> 01:32:36,880
the the tall guy, I cannot
remember the names for some

1528
01:32:36,880 --> 01:32:40,320
reason.
The tall guy, I feel like, I

1529
01:32:40,320 --> 01:32:42,760
don't know, he was probably
closest to her.

1530
01:32:43,000 --> 01:32:48,520
So he might still be around.
But I, yeah, I, I think maybe

1531
01:32:48,520 --> 01:32:51,480
we'll get all of that in Season
3.

1532
01:32:52,440 --> 01:32:54,920
I just don't see how they would
have time to do it tomorrow

1533
01:32:54,920 --> 01:33:01,720
unless it's very, I don't know,
because especially if Jesse is

1534
01:33:01,720 --> 01:33:04,840
in the clip talking about the
war, we're going to see wolves

1535
01:33:04,840 --> 01:33:07,600
and Seraphites tomorrow.
I don't think we're going to see

1536
01:33:07,600 --> 01:33:09,080
anything else having to do with
them.

1537
01:33:09,560 --> 01:33:18,120
Owen Mill, Manny, Nora, Jordan,
Leah.

1538
01:33:19,200 --> 01:33:20,880
I don't remember.
No.

1539
01:33:21,040 --> 01:33:26,200
No, because it was only Owen,
Manny, Nora and Mel and Mel.

1540
01:33:26,240 --> 01:33:31,840
Five of them, yeah.
Yeah, OML, Manny and Dora.

1541
01:33:32,080 --> 01:33:36,160
OK, so that Manny is easy to
remember because that's Danny

1542
01:33:36,160 --> 01:33:38,080
Ramirez's character.
So Manny, Danny.

1543
01:33:38,600 --> 01:33:43,040
There was a lookout looking in
the wrong place and he missed

1544
01:33:45,480 --> 01:33:51,840
LEND and and Dora I mean.
Seattle is a big city.

1545
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:56,080
It's a big city.
There's a lot to keep an eye on.

1546
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:02,280
Hopefully Abby takes those
powers of plot hole spotting and

1547
01:34:02,280 --> 01:34:04,840
sees the plot holes in her
story.

1548
01:34:08,880 --> 01:34:14,000
I I see even you know.
I was gonna say, what plot holes

1549
01:34:14,000 --> 01:34:20,840
are you speaking?
Of the fact that they're walking

1550
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:23,440
around in the middle of the
street, talking out loud.

1551
01:34:23,440 --> 01:34:26,800
Oh.
OK, that yeah, yeah, yeah.

1552
01:34:27,320 --> 01:34:34,920
OK, OK, OK, OK.
Being surrounded by 10 stalkers

1553
01:34:36,160 --> 01:34:42,080
and yeah yeah, I know Jesse
might be a good shot, but he was

1554
01:34:42,080 --> 01:34:48,480
popping headshots in the dark.
Well, I mean, Ellie shot a

1555
01:34:48,480 --> 01:34:52,920
couple of them too.
She sure did all that stress and

1556
01:34:52,920 --> 01:34:58,600
pressure she's able to if.
It if it comes to stress and

1557
01:34:58,600 --> 01:35:02,840
pressure or me being eaten to
death, I'm going to be shooting

1558
01:35:02,880 --> 01:35:04,280
some shit.
You hear me?

1559
01:35:04,880 --> 01:35:08,200
I'm going to be the best shot
there ever was because I'm not

1560
01:35:08,200 --> 01:35:11,640
going to miss.
Because if I miss, that's death.

1561
01:35:13,000 --> 01:35:16,600
I'm going to tell you, I was
about to say yeah, but if one of

1562
01:35:16,600 --> 01:35:20,840
them is near me and you 100 feet
away and you want to shoot that

1563
01:35:20,840 --> 01:35:24,560
one in the head with a handgun,
please try not to shoot at me.

1564
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:28,520
Yeah.
But then again, I would rather

1565
01:35:28,520 --> 01:35:31,480
you try because even if you
miss.

1566
01:35:31,760 --> 01:35:35,440
I would rather die by bullet
than be torn apart by teeth.

1567
01:35:36,080 --> 01:35:39,960
Absolutely.
Absolutely.

1568
01:35:40,360 --> 01:35:45,160
Said.
Anyway, OK, so we got one

1569
01:35:45,160 --> 01:35:49,600
episode left so we'll do that.
And then like we did with the

1570
01:35:49,640 --> 01:35:57,280
Season 1 and we will have an
additional show with our gamer

1571
01:35:57,280 --> 01:35:58,880
friends who have played the
game.

1572
01:35:58,880 --> 01:36:03,560
And we'll talk to them about how
they like what they did as far

1573
01:36:03,560 --> 01:36:08,120
as the adaptation, you know,
what they felt about the story,

1574
01:36:08,480 --> 01:36:11,120
what they wish they would have
kept out, what they wish they

1575
01:36:11,120 --> 01:36:12,680
would have put in.
We'll, we'll have all those

1576
01:36:12,680 --> 01:36:14,200
discussions with Game of
Thrones.

1577
01:36:14,200 --> 01:36:17,920
And then how long are we going
to have to wait for Season 3?

1578
01:36:17,920 --> 01:36:22,600
Probably 2027.
That will be my guess.

1579
01:36:24,440 --> 01:36:26,880
So we'll.
See.

1580
01:36:27,280 --> 01:36:31,600
I don't know, but you have any
final thoughts about this

1581
01:36:31,600 --> 01:36:33,920
episode, About this great
episode?

1582
01:36:35,880 --> 01:36:41,120
Shout out to GAIL for not
hesitating and popping Joel

1583
01:36:41,120 --> 01:36:44,280
inside the head like there was
no hesitation.

1584
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:48,440
None whatsoever, and.
She was not right to that like.

1585
01:36:49,160 --> 01:36:51,360
Really.
You just going to lie on me like

1586
01:36:51,360 --> 01:36:56,080
that?
Oh, I will say I did like the

1587
01:36:56,080 --> 01:37:03,880
scene at the dance right after
Tommy takes his son home.

1588
01:37:04,600 --> 01:37:08,400
And Maria kind of sort of not
necessarily apologizes to Joel.

1589
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:11,400
But, you know, she tells him.
She says, I know that comment I

1590
01:37:11,400 --> 01:37:15,040
made earlier about you being a
refugee seems kind of

1591
01:37:15,040 --> 01:37:17,480
ungrateful.
And he was like, no, it's OK.

1592
01:37:17,480 --> 01:37:20,400
She said, no, I want you to know
I am grateful.

1593
01:37:20,400 --> 01:37:22,360
We all are.
And she was talking about the

1594
01:37:22,360 --> 01:37:25,000
town.
She was like, we all you're very

1595
01:37:25,000 --> 01:37:27,400
important to us.
But to me and Tommy especially,

1596
01:37:27,720 --> 01:37:30,640
what I'm trying to say is Uncle
Grumpy is family, which I love

1597
01:37:30,640 --> 01:37:32,440
that nickname Uncle, Uncle
Grumpy.

1598
01:37:32,840 --> 01:37:38,200
But I like again, the fact that
he did have that moment where

1599
01:37:38,560 --> 01:37:42,280
because you know, before you're
thinking he died with all of

1600
01:37:42,280 --> 01:37:45,640
these people having said all
this bad stuff to him and you're

1601
01:37:45,640 --> 01:37:49,040
thinking, wow, this guy really
died unappreciated.

1602
01:37:49,480 --> 01:37:51,480
And now you find out that it's
not the truth.

1603
01:37:51,480 --> 01:37:55,560
He was able to start making
amends with Ellie.

1604
01:37:55,600 --> 01:37:58,400
He and Maria kind of hatch
things up.

1605
01:37:58,680 --> 01:38:02,040
I think the sad part for me,
too, was him and Tommy telling

1606
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:04,800
each other, I'll see you next
year, I'll see you next year.

1607
01:38:05,160 --> 01:38:10,120
And from everything that we can
gather, they in fact did not see

1608
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:13,240
each other the next year because
Joe was gone on patrol early in

1609
01:38:13,240 --> 01:38:16,360
the morning.
Tommy's going there in the town.

1610
01:38:17,000 --> 01:38:18,720
Yeah.
So I was just like.

1611
01:38:20,720 --> 01:38:25,440
And, and actually, her saying
that he was family, it kind of,

1612
01:38:26,440 --> 01:38:29,560
I don't want to say it puts what
Seth said at the meeting in

1613
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:33,720
perspective, but Seth, I think
really, truly believe that.

1614
01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:37,480
Yeah, we're all family here.
And someone came and killed

1615
01:38:37,480 --> 01:38:40,760
someone in our family and we're
not going to do anything about

1616
01:38:40,760 --> 01:38:42,120
it.
Yeah.

1617
01:38:42,240 --> 01:38:46,840
So, you know, yeah.
It it would be nice for Joel to

1618
01:38:46,840 --> 01:38:50,720
have gotten that from everyone,
not just Maria.

1619
01:38:50,720 --> 01:38:52,560
But I guess it meant a lot
coming from her, though.

1620
01:38:52,560 --> 01:38:56,560
Yeah.
Yeah, 'cause she's family, like

1621
01:38:56,560 --> 01:38:59,680
she's actual family.
She's actual family, yeah, so.

1622
01:39:01,960 --> 01:39:08,400
OK, one episode left and then
starts to wait.

1623
01:39:10,920 --> 01:39:16,240
So I do know that we have ATL
Comic Convention coming up in

1624
01:39:16,240 --> 01:39:18,200
July.
I did get an.

1625
01:39:18,200 --> 01:39:20,880
All your panels got approved.
I did see that.

1626
01:39:20,880 --> 01:39:23,440
So we will be talking about The
Last of Us there.

1627
01:39:25,480 --> 01:39:28,880
But yeah, I think other than
that for right now, that's it

1628
01:39:28,880 --> 01:39:31,520
for our show.
You can find us online at

1629
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,520
www.phantomhybrid.com.
We are on social media, on all

1630
01:39:35,520 --> 01:39:37,160
the social media at Phantom
Hybrid.

1631
01:39:37,560 --> 01:39:39,360
You can chat with us on our
Discord channel.

1632
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,240
You can watch our videos on our
YouTube channel, and you can

1633
01:39:42,240 --> 01:39:45,560
listen to us on all major
podcast streaming platforms.

1634
01:39:45,880 --> 01:39:47,280
Thanks for listening.
We hope you join the

1635
01:39:47,280 --> 01:39:48,520
conversation next time.