The Last of Us Season 2 (Gamer Chat) - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #360

0:24 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah, and as you can tell by our screen, we are doing things a little bit differently. Today we are talking The Last of Us, but this is the Season 2 Gamer Edition and we have some special guests with us today. Of course, everyone knows Anthony, but for those of you who did not catch our Season 1 Gamer episode and are unfamiliar with the other three, we are going to let you guys introduce yourselves. We're going to start with Mr. Carlos I. I'm Carlos Rodriguez and I've been gaming all my life. You sound like you're a A.

1:10 Hi, I'm Carlos. I'm a gamer. Been. Gaming all my life. I'm addicted. Hello, Carlos. Hi, Carlos. Ben, how about you? Hi everybody, I'm Ben. I am a casual gamer. I grew up watching my brothers play and then when my I didn't live with my brothers, I had to play the games myself. If if Ben is a casual gamer then that means I don't even touch video games. No, no, I I think you still play a little bit more than me. OK. And Jason? What's up everybody, it's Your boy, AKA The friend, Live with Dread Head and the Brain to Popcorn podcast. I'm back.

1:55 I love Miss Hancock. I can't wait to talk with all these lovely people about hey, because I want to hear. I need to hear thoughts. I I need to hear thoughts. All right, let's get this show started. I'm going to start with something funny. So few days ago, I get a text from Carlos, who is driving in his car. And which which episode were you listening to? Were you listening to our finale episode or were you listening to the one before that? Think it was the one before that. Yeah, maybe the Carlo sends me a text message and it says, I just want you to know I missed my exit because I'm yelling at the radio. I'm yelling at you going no, no, no, Hanukkah. So what were you fussing at me about? You know, as as as, as Lincoln says, you're giving the writers way too much credit.

2:51 OK. You're giving them way too much credit. Like the last. Oh, man, Let me tell you something. I got thoughts, OK. Because like, the first season, like, it was so good and so perfect. And it was just like, they captured the essence of the video game. What made the video game good and like the story here has I got I don't know, I don't feel the same way. I don't I don't feel the same way this time. OK, you know, first, one of the things that like really upsets me is they nerfed Ellie.

3:32 Yes. OK they they completely nerfed Ellie. Why is Ellie dumb? She's not dumb in the game. No, she she's quick witted, she's sharp. Right doesn't know how to read a map. What why is Jesse telling Ellie? Oh, I didn't expect you to figure. So what do you mean you didn't expect Ellie to figure things out? Ellie knows how to walk cross country all all by herself. Why, why am I looking at Ellie's room and there's rifles all over the place. They say, who is this person? I I don't understand. And you know, there's like in in this portion of the game, there's like 4 people in this, in this in this story that are one man armies, OK? I mean, the, the, the literal definition of, oh, you brought 10 people.

4:19 You didn't bring enough, OK. And that was that was like, you know, it's Joel, Tommy, Abby and Ellie, OK? Ellie's a mass murderer in the in, in in the game, OK. And doesn't usually feel that bad about it until, you know, until, you know, she accidentally or killed. When she killed, like, you know, the pregnant young lady. No. No. Yeah. All right, then she was feeling like, a little bit bad. You saw a little bit of humanity. But well, in the show, well, in the show itself, just like touching on that real quick. She knew that she was pregnant before she killed her in the show, but in the game she did not at all.

5:02 No, I don't think she knew she was pregnant in the show because I don't. Her intent was not to kill her. Mel happened to catch a stray when it went through Owen's neck. That's right. They did do it differently though. They did do it differently. Ellie in this in this season is so accident prone, like she's accidentally killing people and you know, unable, unable to deal with it. And you know, they completely they completely nerfed her. But you know what? You know what upsets me? Because they also nerfed Bella Ramsey. OK, because Bella Ramsey already has experience playing characters that are bigger than her. Yeah, we saw. I don't know if y'all saw Game of Thrones, but she could command a room at 11 years old.

5:45 At 11 years old. So you it's not that unbelievable if they just left Ellie's character alone Like Ellie. Ellie in the game can take on people twice her size in hand in in hand to hand combat if she needed to. So it, it is so weird that they went, they went with this choice of just, you know, and, and like Dina, Ellie, they have way less experience in the TV show than they do in the game, because Ellie is has already a lot of experience doing patrols by the time we get to her in the game.

6:26 All right, Like she's been killing. She's been killing zombies all over the place. Right, it wasn't her first. Time it wasn't her first time, like she's already has like a lot of experience and they just really like made made Dina and Ellie like less experienced than than they like they almost needed the men. I mean, think about it all right in the game, who goes out on patrol? It was it was Tommy and Joel. They went out on patrol together. And in the and in the game, it was it was Dina and Joel. All right. And Ellie and Jesse.

7:08 Oh, in the show, Yeah. Yeah. In the show, you know, so that they switched up who was going as if Ellie and Dina can't handle themselves, that was. That was like, well, I think, I think they did that because the whole, they changed the whole, well, they gave it a plot line, the whole Eugene thing, like his stuff. Because if Ellie and Dina had gone on that patrol together, they would have gone to Eugene's place, right? It would have been that, right? They would have they cause Dina knew about. But they took that out. They did something with Eugene like a stuff and Eugene died of natural causes in the game so. Yes, he died of natural causes in the game. OK, OK.

7:50 So that was a little confusing. I felt like it was unnecessarily aggressive to especially also to make Joel the one who did that and the whole way that it went down especially, it just didn't happen in the game like that or at all. So that was weird. I. Forgot about Eugene's character. Eugene was just there for a little while. OK, yeah. I think I read something because, OK, I'm, I'm the one person on this on this show who has not played the game, so I don't have a lot of knowledge about it. So I think, you know, Carlos, I, I understand your frustration, but I think you're, you're also valid because I'm, I'm looking at things without the, the knowledge or the taint of the game. So I can look at things with a different perspective and, you know, kind of be a little bit more forgiving of some of the things that the characters are doing because I don't have this, this preconceived idea of who this character is supposed to be.

8:48 You know, So I, I don't have those things. And I mean, I, I understand how that is because, you know, most of the stuff that I read has been turned into adaptations. And it, it's hard when you're familiar with the work and then you see what they've done. It's very, very hard not to say, well, that's not how they did it in the book and that's not how they did it. But being able to watch it and, and find out things afterwards I think gives it a just a different feel for me. So yeah. But even even for me though, like I can put the game stuff aside and just look at it as a character. The. Character. Yes I can. The character characters have to be internally consistent and these characters were not consistent, not just over the two seasons, they just weren't consistent within this season. Like the stuff, even the stuff that makes Ellie different. Show Ellie and video game Ellie are two different people. So the problem with show Ellie is, even just looking at the show, she spent however many months with Joel crossing the country and you can't tell me that he didn't teach her anything.

10:01 No way. Yeah. Absolutely no sense because I think I've said this before in the in the previous show that even if he was just looking at her as cargo, if he doesn't teach any teach her anything, she's a liability and dead weight. So he has to teach her how to scout. He has to teach her how to be sneaky. He has to teach her how to read a map, how to sneak up on people, how to crawl in the small spaces to help him make sure there are no clickers in these buildings because they couldn't have been outside the whole time, right? They still had to scavenge for food. He didn't teach her anything, and now she gets her Jags and all of a sudden she didn't know how to read a map. She didn't know how to pack for a trip.

10:42 She didn't know how to do anything. I just don't. That's just not consistent with Joel. And that's not consistent with her even within the confines of the show because that that doesn't make sense. I'm just saying, yeah. Well, I understand that and you and I had a lengthy discussion about this when we talked about this season finale. So Jason, let's get some of your thoughts. How how are you feeling about season 2 in relation to what the second game game play was? So for me, you know, I came into this show, I came into this season, I'm like, oh, I'm pretty sure the, the, the, the reactions are going to be just like the games they're remixed. Some people are going to really like it. Some people are going to like, it's OK. Some people are just going to hate it. Me like game wise, I was on the on the ones that saying that it was the game was great with greater gameplay and a far more complex story.

11:45 So that's why I gave this praise and I see where people come from and it's kind of like with this show. I still feel like this show is still like writing wise writing wise directing like all of that. I still say it's still it's not at the first season level, but it's still like it's still like a notch for Lloyd because if I can take it away from the game because like, I, I don't know who who has said about Ellie's character, about how she would not how she would know these things because of Joel. And I'm like, yeah, I thought she was like, yeah, yeah, right. But then when we got those intimate episodes between Joel and Ellie, this Joel, he seen Moore trying to keep her inside of Jackson that she really didn't want. Like he like he probably taught, he taught her bare minimum because he didn't want her going out there, because he didn't want to lose her because we saw what he did at the end of the first season to, to, to get her back. So like, that's why I'm, I'm really, really that upset. I see people's problems with it, but for me it wasn't a problem because I feel like even then the writing, it's still like it made some type of sense to me.

12:51 And as far as people, a lot of people talk about Ellie's character show Ellie and guitar game Ellie are different. And I think because in the show from I think if with the amount of episodes we got and how much we had to cover, it would be hard to put video game Ellie in because video game Ellie, like since you play as Ellie, of course you're going to be a badass. Of course you're going to be shoot and kill everybody. But but in the show, even though it's still about, you know, zombies, it it made it more grounded to her character. And like I said, within the show's confines, I like, I can still rock with it because the like, the one thing I like is the dialogue between characters.

13:33 Like honestly, in the first episode, I don't know, second episode when they when they killed off Joel, I was more sad than I was playing the game because I got to spend way much more time with Joel at the very beginning. As far as you get these scenes in the middle and end of in the end of the game. So it makes no sense. But here it's all compact. You see that he's a like, like he's a uncle. He like he's a loving uncle, he's a loving father for Ellie. He's back with his, with his brother Tommy. So you get to, you know, spend a little bit of time with him, more time with them. And then when that scene happens, it it hits even harder and, and it hurts. And I, I just like, I think one thing I do want to praise is just just like the first season.

14:26 I like what Craig Mazing them do as far as directing and how they angle their shots and how the lighting because I think it all fits perfectly with this. Well, that's why I really like Chernobyl because of how it was filmed and the lighting like in some of these scenes and how the setting look. So I'm still in love with the visuals. You know, the CGI can look very smooth. Sometimes it looks like it look like a Lego background, sometimes from a distance I saw a few. Scenes. Like. That I didn't notice that, so I'm good. But like I said, it was it was nice like like from just for somebody who was a writer themselves, like who wants to be in this industry? Like it makes me like, you know, it makes me remember why I like things like this.

15:13 It doesn't always have to be about at night non-stop action and just like shock value or sometimes the intimate moments in movies be the some of the best parts. And I feel like in this show, a lot of the intimate scenes are, are some of the better scenes even over some of the action, which there's a lot of good action in the in the show. But yeah, like, that's just my overall thoughts about it. OK. I have a question for Jason. Yes. Being a writer, having done the play the video game and watch the show. Oh, Oh, yeah. Can you see how they maybe made a choice? That a choice that having Abby be a monster, not Abby. That Ali is a she's basically a monster in the game. She's she's a horrifying monster because she kills everything. You can't necessarily write that as your main character in the TV show, can you?

16:09 No, because that's where the problem is, because when you do that in the video game, it's different because it's action oriented. So you get like 1/5 a 5 to 15 minutes. No, no, I say a 5 to 10 minutes cutscene and then it's an hour to an hour to it, almost two hours of gameplay. So there's not really time for them for the character to actually feel like a human and not John Wick. And that makes sense. Yeah, and you know, I was going to say as a as a show person and not the game person, I also kind of felt like that in in looking at how they approach Ellie's character because kind of similar to what Anthony just said, I feel like when it's a video game, you're looking at it as one it it's not real, it's fictional. It's and most of it is animated.

17:02 So these are, you know, characters that you can kind of in your mind say, OK, these characters aren't real. So if they do all of this outlandish stuff, oh, OK, it's no big deal. It's a game. However, when you're looking at it through the lens of watching a show, I feel like because you are dealing with real people, even though they're playing fictional characters, I feel like you attach yourself more to their emotions. You attach yourself more to to their actions and, and let's be honest, it's not a good look for someone to be off killing everything. And we're just like, yes, yes, you can do it. Do it with no consequences.

17:43 We don't care. I I think there's a little bit of a balance that writers have to think like, OK, we don't want people to look at this and say, OK, yeah, this is totally OK for you to do it. Because unfortunately we know that there are people in this world who look at fiction and they're like, Oh yeah, they did that. So I can do that. But you know, I, I think it's, I think it was interesting that they put a, a bit more of a, a humanity spin on her character. Because I think Anthony and I discussed this when we were talking about the finale, because Anthony had problems with a, a lot of season 2 up until the later episodes. And, you know, we talked about the episode where we're introduced to Joe's father, and we see kind of him trying to break that cycle of violence within their family. And then we learned that Joel and Ellie had this conversation the night before he died, also about breaking these cycles of violence.

18:44 And, you know, it kind of seems like Ellie, maybe because of what happened to Joel and because she knew what happened, you know, automatically assume that this was the result of what he did. So maybe she's making different choices so that she doesn't end up like him. You know, I I thought that was very interesting. But there are times like if you listen to the show at all this season, I'm sitting there like, I want to see Tommy. I want to see the the bad ass. I'm about to kill everybody Tommy that everybody keeps talking about. But I also realized that might not be very healthy for me even. Because of look in in in the game, yeah, I ain't gonna live after playing the game, you see something stand the town do like oh, I need to take a shower. I feel I feel dirty because honestly now one thing I will say they toned down Joe's death because honestly, I was I was going into the show thinking, oh, I'm about I'm about to have Walking Dead all over again.

19:51 Ain't no. OK, you had Glenn. You were expecting some Glenn vibes. Yeah, because yeah, 'cause let's just say Abby hit a lot of holding ones that day with Joel's head. Yeah, yeah. I don't think I would have been able to watch that. I mean, watching that episode was hard enough as it was. You can't do Pedro like that. Yeah, I was and. It was a little bit merciful here. Yeah, like, oh, at least you're just going for the leg. Oh, but but also, I want to give a shout out to the visual effects department because that 3D model, it looked really good. I like, oh, that must be a Pedro dumb like, Oh no. Really good or really bad now?

20:40 Like like for me, it actually looked like like it didn't look fake. Like a lot a lot of things I see like the it'll be either a dummy from a distance or it's just you can tell that it's CGI. But I'm glad that it was practical effects used. Right. Because it, it really, really did look like him. It was a very good likeness. I was, I was thinking about an interview his sister did on a red carpet somewhere. And she was like, you know, being his sister, you know, I, I know that these things are coming and whatever she's like, but I'm so sick of watching my brother die. She was like, I just can't do it anymore.

21:21 She said she watched it on the last bus and she threw her iPad across the room and she was like, no, I can't do this anymore. Because he died. In Game of Thrones. Also, he died in Buffy the van. Yeah, he's like, he's like the modern day Sean Bean. Yeah, right. Wait, didn't he die in Gladiator 2 as well? Yes, he did. Yes, he did. A very glorious death. But yeah, it was kind of like, I was literally sitting in the movie theater watching this. I was like, OK, so I'm not going to have to watch him die once this year.

22:03 I'm going to have to watch it twice, OK? Y'all got to stop doing this to me, but yeah, I but y'all are giving me hope because, you know, he's playing a character that I really hate and you know Reed Richards, he's playing Reed Richards and I would just love it if Reed. Richards died. Just love it. I would just love it. So hopefully we have this pattern and I'll be very happy. Now, we've already seen Reed Richards die once. If he was going to do that, he should have been the Reed Richards and multiverse of Man. OK, Ben, let's get your thoughts. Oh. My God, my thoughts.

22:47 OK, so like I I didn't enjoy this season and I loved the last season. It was kind of crazy because Carlos kind of, I felt, I feel thinks the same as I do. I'm still trying to pinpoint exactly why, but it just doesn't feel like the first season at all either. I felt like I was pretty open the first season for different things, new elements. I understand that the physical conflict is going to be like a lot less and I had no problems with that. I loved all the changes, mostly that they made in like the first season. But this season I had a huge problem with the characters and how some of them decided they wanted to portray this because I just feel like it wasn't faithful to the to the video game character. And obvious like Abby or Ellie I should say. What other characters did you have issues with? Well, no, I I mean like those are definitely the two main ones, but it's more like also like their relationships between each other to like a stuff.

23:48 I don't know why the video, not the video game. The show made such a big deal of Dina and Joel's relationship. It was almost a little weird, like his stuff like he really loved her like a daughter and it kind of like in the show and it kind of just didn't make sense. Like obviously, like, you know, he's got like, you know, like in the game, you know, he considers her like a neighbor and a close friend like and stuff. But like in the show, it definitely felt like they were a lot closer than they were in the game. And it was it was kind of weird because it kind of felt they were trying to make Dina's character more. I don't know if Lovables the worth that I want to use in the beginning. Like it's stuff that I felt like they wanted you to warm up really quick to her and they kind of just forced her into situations.

24:38 I really like Dina and Deanna's character a lot. I just felt like it was also weird. Like her relationship with Ellie is so much more in your face in the show. And not that it's not present throughout the game like at all or anything, but it's kind of weird their relationship going on during all of this. Like, it's stuff like in the game, it's definitely like, hey, this is all going on. You know, it's nice to have you like with me like during this, like a stuff, but it's not all these really. It's not CW. Lovey W CS there's there's a little romance like and stuff obviously, but it's not all these lovey dovey CS and it's just it's just kind of weird for the situation they're in at the moment. Yeah, Yeah.

25:22 I think, I think we all agreed on that or Anthony and I did because it was, it was the. Whole I love you after the serenade didn't happen in the game and it was just really weird how it came out in the show like. Yeah. Yeah, even like when she told her she was pregnant in the show, she's like, oh, I'm going to be a dad because of the games. Like she. Was angry. Fuck, she was upset. Like what are you doing? Like you're messing this up. You know, yeah. It I feel like it's really funny because I feel like Bella Ramsey's portrayal of Ellie has is almost like Bella yells when Ellie in the game does not yell. And it's kind of like also like vice versa. Cuz like I noticed Bella Ramsey yells in a lot of situations where Ellie was actually pretty like even toned about it. She was upset and angry and stuff, but it was kind of more like a cold rage instead of in this explosive force. Cuz I don't know, Bella just kind of seems like a little bit more childish than Ellie is in the game. Like his stuff with how she manages that kind of emotion because it's always exploding.

26:24 And yes, Ellie does explode in the game sometimes, but she's a lot more level, especially with like the people that she cares about. Like she's not doing all this yelling to Jesse and Dina like she does in the show. OK. So it's those kind of things that kind of just like these aren't the characters I know. OK, so, and I kind of look at that as one of the things that I noticed about Ellie's character or that I try to, you know, kind of think about when I think about Ellie's character, is remembering that she didn't grow up normally like most of the other kids. You know, she grew up kind of isolated and, you know, treated not necessarily special, but she knew she was different. Maybe she didn't know why until she was older, but she was different.

27:16 Marlene treated her different because that, you know, Marlene had the sense of, oh, this girl may be a cure. She may be able to, you know, do something about this later on in her life. So she was isolated from other kids, if I'm not mistaken, if I remember from season 1, she was isolated from a lot of kids. She was isolated from a lot of people, and she wasn't really given a chance to kind of be a child. And I think that's one of the things that they showed us in the show, like with Joel doing the things that he did for her, maybe as Anthony said, not teaching her, you know, how to be bad ass number one when it comes to survival skills. I think the show was trying to show him giving her some grace as far as let me let her be a child, at least right now while we're in this community, while we're somewhat safe, let me allow her this little bit.

28:12 And I think for her emotionally, I don't think she knows how to deal with that. You know, she she's not used to people treating her special in that sense. She's not used to anyone showing her love. She's not used to anyone being considerate of her in that way. And I think when she when she acts out, I think she does it kind of out of fear, kind of out of self sabotage, kind of like, OK, well these people are going to leave me. And I think she just really doesn't understand, again, like social cue, she doesn't understand how to deal with people, how to deal with people correctly. And I just think that comes across and I think she does that really well. Bella Ramsey does.

28:56 I think they do that really well when portraying the character. I just think, again, sometimes our expectations of what the character should be doing, especially, oh, she's 19, she should know better, but how no one's really ever been around to teach her. Like, this is how you respond to certain events. This is how you respond to certain things. And I just don't think she understands that. You know you're giving the writers too much credit. You are. Wouldn't. You are because they're, they're uh. Oh, oh, he was.

29:37 Thinking a lot of the the dissonance between. You keep freezing, that's why we're laughing at you. I know, I know, I can't help it. I don't know. I'm just, I'm just electrified like that. The business between the character Ellie and the show in the game, I think a lot of the problems with the shows revolve around how they wrote the character, how they changed the character fundamentally. Like is literally supposed to be a revenge season. Like she's supposed to be on this revenge toward this thing. She's supposed to be hunting these people down. And that's what I was excited about, even though I wanted this. Every episode would be a different character being haunted down. That's about her.

30:21 That would have been much more compelling than what we got in, in my opinion, video game or not. Like, why do we like shows like The Blacklist? Raymond Redington is a monster, but he's so charming, you know, And I kind of would like to have sort of had that with Ellie and Miss because I don't know, it just it was too much CW and not enough, you know? John Wick. John Wick Exactly. But I do have a question for it for y'all. Were there anything, were there any moments that were faithful to the game that you thought were faithful to the game? And what were some of the stand out unfaithful moments? Oh, OK, so one of the things that I, and I'm starting to realize now that I now that I saw the whole season, I understand why they did it.

31:18 But, you know, we went through a long time without knowing why Abby killed Joel. They pretty much told us the first, the first episode, why Abby killed Joel. And I don't know. For me, for me, that kind of that kind of changes the impact of the story. Now it's still kind of wound up, I guess close to being the same anyway. Because the only reason why I knew that the season 2 of The Last of Us came out was everyone was reacting the way that they did when they were gamers. When the gamers reacted, I was like, oh, it's out. Because I was what? How everyone was saying, oh, I can't believe this bee. And then I was like, yeah, that was the same. That was the same reaction.

32:01 Everyone like hated Abby. Like we hated Abby. OK, When we started taking control of Abby, I don't know about you guys. I threw her off a Cliff a couple times. All right, I let her get. Eaten. A couple of times, you know, like I was like, yeah, that's revenge. I I got revenge on for Joel several times when I was when I was playing as when I was playing as Abby, and so that you know, one the the level of the of that, that reaction, you know, so like I didn't like it that they reveal it in the beginning, but I guess the reaction still stayed the same. Everyone like hating Abby B For the most part, the show did go did pretty much follow what the game was doing.

32:54 My issue was always was just the characterizations of of Ellie that was just getting him. But it really did follow the game a lot, a lot of the way it really it really did. But I think it was just missing the same impact because I think the storytelling, I feel like the storytelling kind of changed because without Abby, the overall effect is not, it's just not the same. Like I really missed having Abby and seeing and seeing Abby. But I realized now that I guess they just didn't have time because they were, you know, that's why they split it into two seasons.

33:34 I don't know, for me, it would have been better to have waited and, and see the entire story. It would have been better for me that way because it'll be interesting to see how people feel about Abby at the end of season 3 because, you know, and it's kind of hard to talk about it because we don't want to do any spoilers. Spoilers. Yeah, we don't want to do any spoilers even though they might change them, but you know, they did follow the game. The Eugene thing was different. I didn't I didn't hate the Eugene part. I mean, it was Joey Pants. I I I'd like to just say that I thought the Eugene part was fine. Dina's and Ally's relationship really like solid and establishes itself in Jackson before they go to Seattle and I think I like that better because their relationship was less of a of a distraction.

34:27 By the time they got to Seattle they were already established. They were already boyfriend and girlfriend by the time they got on the road. One of the other changes was that Ellie and Dina had to sneak out of Jackson. That didn't happen in the game. What happened in the game was Tommy went and and and started hunting Abby down and Maria sent Ellie and Dina to go to go get her go get Tommy back. OK, so so Maria actually sent Ellie and Dina to go to go get him back. OK, That's that was kind of opposite in this one in the show. It was like the complete it's the complete opposite in this one. OK, so.

35:13 OK, the. Museum what? The museum was. The museum scene was really good, really amazing. Yeah, I love. Pretty much almost one for one. I love that scene. It was it was so well done. And just again, for me, I, you know, I have a a soft spot for Ellie because she grew up without having to, you know, without being able to experience even what normal kids in that type of environment, you know, experience. So just to see her walk in and the joy on her face and basically acting like a child for the first time that we see at all in this show, I loved it.

35:54 So yeah. What about you, Jason? Wait. Ask question again. Was there was there anything that you found particularly faithful to the game in the show and was there any stand out thing that was and faithful? To the cell, like Carlos said, I mean they they were pretty faithful with with most of it. I would say like with the like with the major part they were faithful like except for the Tommy thing. But then, but like I said, I'm probably like I'm popular opinion, some of the changes that they made, it's like I like it because it it makes sense. And for one, I'm glad they put Ellie. I'm glad they put Abby in front of like like her reasoning for killing Joel, because now everybody like now everybody, hey, Abby and everybody feeling sorry for Joel. I'm be honest with you.

36:49 When I played the game and Joel got killed, I like you know what, fair enough, fair enough. I like because I had to think about all the times I brutally killed somebody said, yeah, that could be somebody, Daddy. That that, that, that could have been somebody. Daddy. That and then and like like I said, I think I said this in in the first in the in the first show we did in the hospital, the two nurses, I kill them every time. I didn't know that you you. Didn't know that. I didn't know that I had a choice. I, I I just I did. Too I, I thought like I had to kill. Them then.

37:31 So then when Jordan? Wait, I popped them all three. So then when Joel, you know, when Joe got turned into a pincushion, I said, you know what, that. So disrespectful. I don't even think Joel would be surprised how he died. I'm pretty sure this is pretty much what he expected. And you know what? And I felt that way in the show, like when she made him realize who she was. I I think that in his mind, he was like, oh, OK, yeah, this is. Going to happen someday. Yeah. That's good, because that was going to be my next question. How did the show handle Joel's legacy and impact compared to the game?

38:14 Like like I said, for me, I think that it impacted it impacted me more just because I spent a whole lot more time with Joel instead of times when I get it into some action and then then I then I see Joel. I'm like, bro, bro, y'all had to put this, this flashback right here. Like I was on the roll. I I was on a roll killing people. They, they, you just want to ruin the fun. But OK. But here, you know, we establish a we, we establish the type of the type of man that Joel is at this point. They, they it I like how they changed time because even in the game, I was yelling at time like you, you know, you got a family, right? Like you, like, you know, they need you, right. So I'm glad in the show, the one thing that they did add that I like was the attack on Jackson.

39:02 Oh yes. Because like right when there when he thought that he was going to die and she thought that and vice versa. I'll like this gives him a this gives him a reason for him to stay. Like how I wanted it to be in the game. So I'm glad that they reversed it because like I said, Tommy, the way that Joel talked Tommy up to be that he was that that he was that he was not the one to make a decision like that. So that's why I like I'm glad that they fixed that one thing that always bugged me about Tommy, and also he made a lot of missions, a lot of so much longer.

39:43 Some of the missions it became so much longer because of Tommy. So I'm glad that they I'm glad that they fixed this because that was out of my like the small gripes I have throughout the game. My biggest gripe was Tommy because I would like that black. I would like that black person yell at the screen. I like why? Why? So. So is that that big clicker attack that happened to Jackson? Does that not happen in the game? No, I wish. I wish you did. I wish you did. OK, yeah, those, the large scale clicker attacks that they do in this show are so ridiculously scary. Like, it's one thing knowing because I mean, even just the way that they brought them out in this episode, because you have Abby, who's supposed to be on watch. She sees these two people, doesn't know who they are, doesn't know what they're capable of. But you decide you going to take your little bitty self down the hill and and confront them, do whatever. I don't know, when she started stepping and she saw the bodies, I was like, oh, this is not good. You might want to go back up that hill, girl. And when they start coming out like my, I have goosebumps now. Because literally watching those clickers had the same effect as we did.

41:04 When we saw that bloater come out of the ground in the first season, I was so scared. I was like, OK, you know what? If that's coming towards me, I understand. We have a game plan. Y'all are going to the roof, y'all are going to the basement, blah, blah, blah. Me, I'm not that. I'm not that brave. I'm just going to sit there and just just let it be over with very quickly. Because that was a lot like hundreds, if not if not 1000. Do you know, like do you want to know what it kind of remind me of? It's going to sound weird, but if you watch Lord of the Rings, the two towers, like the siege on the castle, it kind of, it kind of felt like that because it really did feel like there was no like this was going to be a losing, a losing battle.

41:53 Yeah. So like, come on, watch. Like, why does it, why does this seem feel familiar? And then we're like, oh, yeah. Lord of the Rings like the like the attack on the castle. I was looking at them running towards those walls and I was like, well, I guess most of Jackson is about to die. They were prepared. They were prepared, Yes, they had a plan. The end. And that is the one thing I'm I'm so glad that we see because sometimes when you're watching, when you're watching properties that have to deal with zombies and stuff, especially for a big group like that, they're not always that coordinated. They're not always that well planned. Like you always had this one group who doesn't want to do what everybody else is doing.

42:39 But that's the one thing about Jackson likes that town is a community. And they all stepped up except for those 2 little cowards that ran out. But you know what? Because you have hundreds of these things and all you got is a flamethrower and you see people dying, right, left. You might get scared. You might decide to turn back. I mean, we don't know. Maybe they were turning back to get a better position. We don't know. I know I'm giving them too much. I think they. Should show better people for the jobs I'm. Just saying that that scene was spectacular though I and and for it to be playing as we're watching what's going on with Joel, I was just like, OK, y'all are so wrong for this episode, but whatever.

43:30 Joe's death happening so quickly in the season, was that something that you expected or was that something you thought would happen later on in the season and did that change how you felt about it? Oh, that was like they they kind of runtime wiser, probably like the same amount of time or whether they kill him in the game it was. About the same point. OK, Yeah, yeah. Because like, if you don't know what the theme of the of this season is going to be by now, I, I, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah, I still feel like people will miss it though, because I I still feel like they didn't do without Abby. The the theme is deluded, I think. I don't know for me, because I like I said, those, those extra scenes to me, I feel like I feel like people are going to cling on to that revenge thing, but I but honestly, my thing, I feel like the theme is learn to like learn to let go and live, because a lot of these scenes show that these people have some, a lot to live for.

44:35 Like I think that's why they fast tracked Ellie and and and Dina. Well, first of all, I just looked at how they were doing pacing this. I don't know how they're going to do this all in another season. It's going to have to this talent could be 3 different seasons because of how long the game is. So I I like how they actually gave people like gave like everybody, like, you know, a stake and like what to what to lose and like what, what and like what like is it worth bounding out what's to lose and what's the gain? So I really think they did a good job with that and made, to me, it made the theme of letting go more clear than it did in the game.

45:16 Yeah, see, I thought maybe like towards the end of this season, I realized that the way they are were writing Ellie's character, they were trying to go to the breaking the cycle of violence route. Like everything was telling her to turn back, turn back. You know, you don't have to do it. It's it's done with. It ended with Joel, Joel's death. Just stop. Which is different from the game because I feel like the game was pushing her to do the revenge, to go on the revenge. But like, that's just, I feel like that's just the way that the game's formatted because because you, I, I don't think it would play well in the show because for one, you would have to fast track a lot of things and spend a lot less time on some of those intimate moments, which for this show for like for what they were trying to do, they need these intimate moments.

46:07 Yeah, then we did get bits and pieces like Nora we got. That I was like because of that first I would go like Dang LA ruthless enough and I said, oh, you look familiar. Oh, she getting that pipe. Oh, she getting that pipe oh. Yeah. Oh damn boy, turn your legs in the wishbones. Please turn it on. And then you saw it again when she saw the whale and the wheel, and then she flipped it on again. Oh yeah. So they they they were trying to give us a little bit of, of that game LE. Yeah, right there. Yes, there. I I saw a little bit there. I was like, oh, there she is.

46:50 Yeah. And I was just kind of wondering again, from from a, a show only viewpoint, like I know enough about the game to know what to expect. So I kind of figured once the second episode happened and then 3-4 came and we saw nothing of Ellie. I mean of Abby, just, you know, Ellie's searching for her. I was like, oh, OK, they're either going to wait and give us give us her in the last episode, or they're going to give it to us in the third season. Because I knew that at some point once Joe dies, you turn around, you play the game is happy. And I just kind of felt like, OK, so they're showing us everything from Ellie's point of view to get us to kind, you know, kind of be on her side.

47:32 Oh, yeah, this chick came in, she killed Joe. We're outraged, blah, blah blah, but it's similar to what we talked about when we're discussing The Walking Dead with the whole Negan versus Rick thing. It's like if we had started following the character Megan from the Here's Megan episode with his wife at the start of the zombie apocalypse going to when he and Rick's group meet. What? We feel more sympathy towards Megan as opposed to Rick because let's be honest, we've had this conversation, you know, Rick's group kind of came in and killed a whole bunch of Nigga's people, you know, unprovoked for them at least. So it was kind of interesting because I'm like, OK, they're they're giving us Ellie's point of view and then they're going to give us Abby's.

48:18 And now, you know, with Season 3, we know they're going to be following Abby. We know that they're going to use the same Seattle day one, day 2, day three format that they did with Ellie. But I feel like the show, again, is maybe trying to get the viewers more emotionally involved with the characters because of the changes that we saw with Ellie this season. I think they're going to do the same thing with Abby. It's like, OK, yeah, we hate her because she killed Joel, but let's try to see if we can get you guys to soften towards her. We're going to show you what her days are like after this happens. And I just feel like that's how they're going to try to draw us in to make us be like, OK, well, maybe Abby's not as bad.

49:04 Because like Jason said, when you think about it, OK, you went in there, you shot up a hospital and you killed her dad because you didn't want to let this child go. Yes, I I understand that part. But when you think about it, in those times, Abby had every reason to go and do what she did to Joe. But of course, because we like the character, we spent time with that character, we feel we feel more of the outrage because of that. So, yeah, I just, the the whole Abby thing, it's like I was sitting, I won't necessarily say on pins and needles the entire season, but it's almost like you're waiting for her to come around the corner. But I feel like if they had done that, you know, included her more in the in the second season, we probably would have seen more of that video game version of Ellie. You know, I think it would have been more of a cat and mouse game at that point.

50:01 So. And while you mentioned Abby's side gamers, were you happy that you didn't have to see Alice this time? You remember Alice? Alice, give me a quick refresh. Alice is Abby's dog. Oh. Stop it. Wait, I was so happy with not to see. You talked about the dogs last time too, didn't? We we can't. Remember. What's the deal with the dogs because they didn't show the dog in? In this. In this season, yeah, I. Don't know but were y'all? Happy too, not to see Alice. I was happy not to see Alice.

50:42 Didn't we see her though? No no, I was rewatching the game recently so it's a little. Yeah, that happened. I had to stop playing the game because I started confusing the game with the with the with the the show. But I don't know, I was relieved not to see not to see Alice, Right. OK, So is Alice some something I should be worried about? She's a good girl. Alice is a good girl, She. Was a good girl. No, she still is she? Still is, still is. So I also have a question for the game as to do y'all really think they're going to be able to fit the the whole this is even like halfway through the game?

51:22 Do you think they can fit I've. Been wondering. I've been wondering how they're going. To I really think I really think that they were only given two seasons, but I think if the but I think if the next season does better, I think they will actually renew it. But then again, I feel like with what they put in in that later half, which is more action oriented. Now that now I think about it, it's kind of is more action oriented than the than the first than the first half of it, like the first half, the first quarter of the game, because if I'm not mistaken, this is literally like only two or three, three to four hours into the game. No, not even not even because the game is 40 hours. So this this like a small portion.

52:04 Yes, the game is 40 hours. The game The game is 40 hours and. Is Abby section more action oriented? Yeah, Abby section more action. Actually, I don't think it is because what they did was they take out a lot of the action. Well, right, Well, no. So I think it's a lot it's but you might be right, it's a lot less action. But compared to Abby's portion of the game, it is more on a grander scale. Like a lot of the action set pieces are are low. My like gravatized then then Ellie seems because Ellie seems it's just more of her being Jason with the wig on.

52:49 Right. I see what you're saying because Abby, Abby is in the middle of that of the war with the with the Seraphites. Yeah. So it and other. Yeah, so that's so too. So that's why I say I really think that they're going that they're just putting all of Abby's stuff in that second season because they know that this will get people wanting to watch the show more. And it'll also give the the it'll give HBO like confidence that they can, that they can put on a strong third and probably final season. And then who knows, maybe hopefully within this amount of time frame, Neil Drucken be like, you know what?

53:33 I'm going to do another game. Know what? We were talking about that. We already got the rumors. There's recent rumors right now. Anthony told us about some rumors and I looked him up and it's like people have been talking about it the last few days. I'm just saying like, you know, maybe that in my perfect world, that that's how I see. That's how I see. OK, do you think 7 episodes was enough to tell the story that they told this season or do you think they should have? Because I don't know why they they gave us only 7 episodes. Last season What season was was it 8? Or Oh no, I think last season might have been 9. Although I. Can Fact Check it real quick.

54:16 Yeah, it was more than this season. Yeah, it was definitely more. And I, I, I kind of feel they shortchanged this in that way because I did feel like there could have been a little more story told. And you know, I, I've heard, or I think I've read 1 potential synopsis for next season. I do know that we probably will be seeing Joel again because they are going to do some flashback stuff. I know that we're supposed to get some Tommy and Jesse sings, which if I'm not mistaken, I've, I've read that just was kind of a tertiary character in the game. He didn't really have a lot to do. So they kind of flesh his character out more for the show. But I hear we're going to get some of that. Of course, we're going to get the Abby stuff. We're probably going to see Owen, Mel and Nora again. Because if they're doing the Abby, you know, day one, day 2, day three, we have to figure out what happened with them to kind of get them where they were.

55:18 Because, you know, Mel and Owen, we're kind of arguing with each other about whether they should go to Abby or not, you know, for, for whatever reason. So I'm, I'm sure they're going to show us those reasons. But I did feel like there should have been a little bit more in the season, but that they couldn't get to it because it was only 7 episodes. And I don't know what they're doing for season 3, but it's like we, we complain about this all the time on the show. Stop giving us these short ass seasons. You know, six hours is not enough to tell a full story. I get I'm practically like I agree with it because of how they paste it and where where the stopping point was because like I said, I was like, this isn't even halfway through the like most of this show was like like the follow second season, not even halfway, barely 1/4 way through the game.

56:10 So it made sense. Like I saw this being 7 and then plus the way how things ended and like and like people expectation. I feel like they want to leave it right here at cliffhanger. I thought they were going to leave it somewhere else. Honestly, I I I I thought it was going to be a certain scene where I where I was just like, damn, that was that was quick. But but when they end here, like, you know what, that kind of makes sense because it's a Moat. It's a like, it's an, it's an emotional weight behind that because you're going to really, because then you're going to be thinking like, damn, what's Abby going to do when she figures this out?

56:50 So I think it was smart. I think like writing wise, smart money wise, even smarter because why not? So. OK, what's the thing that you hated the most about the season as a gamer? They got hated the most. That was a game that look, I just wanted to see somebody blow up, OK, because by that time I'm blowing I'm blowing a lot of people up and I also want to see somebody blow it. It was the first few of them were very chain to what I did within the first three hours of the game. I was over. I was going to see some. I am violent, but I I guess also one thing I didn't like was like how the how they doing Jesse even like Jesse, whatever, But I I do feel like they should have probably did more scenes with Jesse because when they rebuild that bombshell, if I was just somebody just watching the show, like girl, you a hoe, you a hoe. But but but in the game, they let it be known. Yeah, Jesse and and Dina had a thing, but we watching the show like wait, so where are you fucking off at? Because they made it seem like her and Ellie were always together in the show.

58:15 So you got to think like, when do you have time to to be with Jesse? In the show, they made it a little bit more. Because in the show it was like 3 months later, yeah, before they had that meeting, like his stuff. And I think that they were implying that Dina's got with him during that period of time. Yeah, because remember in the show, Ellie was in the hospital for a large. Amount of time. No, because even at the beginning it was. It was already established that Dana and Jesse had been together and then they kind of broke up. And then, you know, when when they're on their way to Seattle, she says something to to Dina.

58:58 She was like, well, you could just get back with Jesse. She was like, I already did. Because at that point, Dina is kind of denying what she feels for Ellie or she's kind of, she's testing the waters out to see how Ellie feels and. Yeah, so it's like I. Think if anything, you would probably think that more of Jesse because she had Dina only had a crush on Ellie, but Jesse sat there and and made the admission to Ellie. Yeah, there was this girl who came with that group from Alberta. Best two weeks of my life. Oh, excuse me, Sir. And enough for you to consider moving to Canada with her.

59:40 Oh, OK. She lit your ass on fire. But I mean, you know, I guess. It was more, I guess it was just more of they were more telling this showing like they like they told about the like, you know, their past, like at least like in the game. I, I still felt like, oh, OK. Like they're like, like, you know, there was some there with each other, but they're just cordial together. Like here. Also, I, I just feel like there wasn't really any chemistry between that, between the Jesse actor and Dina. I honestly, I just, I, I just didn't feel it. But but then again, Dina, also, you said that she was testing the waters.

1:00:20 I think she dipped her whole damn leg in that motherfucker because she she was she, she was, she was not subtle at all. Well, I've I've already just said. Ellie was just stupid. Very well though, Ellie was. Ellie was just stupid. She don't pick up social cues very well. We've already had this discussion. But I think the thing with Jesse and Dana, I, I won't say that I didn't feel chemistry. I felt that there was something there with them. But it's, it's kind of the way he described it to Ellie. He said, I love her. I just don't love her the way you love her. And that's exactly how I felt it. Like I, I felt that he cared about her. I felt that he felt protective of her, especially once he realized that she might be pregnant. Like he really did put on the oh, OK, yeah, you can't go nowhere.

1:01:16 You need to go sit down. He pulled that type of behavior. But yeah, I didn't read it as, oh, my God, this is the love of my life and how it. This is going to be awkward. Jesse was so chill about the whole thing. He was like, look, I don't love her the way you love her. I see how y'all look at each other. I'm, you know, even back in Jackson after New Year's, when when Ellie said something to to him about the kiss, he was like, I don't care. It's it's fine. You know, he was like, I think it's wrong. I, I think it's, you know, screwed up that you did that, but OK, because I think he knew that that wasn't the person for him. So yeah, it was OK.

1:01:58 I have another question. SO was the sudden impact of Jesse's death in the game as impactful as it is in the show? It's exactly the same, pretty much. Not have to shoot him in the face well. It's. That. But did it. But did it but didn't feel the same because I feel like in the show they were kind of like giving us like a mountain of Jesse in two episodes. Yeah. Well. Let's see, the only difference I think in the game is that Jesse is Jesse finds them sooner than they do in the game than in the show because they had already. Let's see what I have in my notes, OK? Because in the game they met Jesse before they met Nora in the game at the hospital.

1:02:45 So Jesse was around for a little bit longer in the game. So he wasn't, but it still wasn't that much longer. Yeah, because they they met him before. Well, yeah, they met him before. They met Nora in the show, too. But Dina had taken the arrow to the leg, so Jesse had to leave and take her back to the theater, and then Ellie continued to the hospital around. Oh, that's. How they did it in the show. Yeah, yeah, Dina. Got. They're just all little differences and stuff. Yeah, Dina got hurt earlier in the game. So Dina didn't do a lot of traveling with Ellie in Seattle in the game because she had already got injured and they had figured out that she was pregnant. So Dina was the guy at the chair.

1:03:28 Oh, OK. OK, she's a good one. And she is, because she is very smart, so. Oh yeah. Yeah, she's. Not talked about that she she was like Oracle for Batman. Right. Yeah. Yeah, but also, I do want to say one thing. I am mad about how they did things. There's one scene with Jesse because it's it's one. It's like the scene, the subway. It is the most tentful scene ever because you were surrounded by by these by these zombies is clicking and you having to fight them off until Jesse saves you. Now I'm just like, well, that can't happen. I mean, listen, you know, Jesse come back from the dead, but I don't think you can mend a bullet to the face.

1:04:10 I mean, you could try, but I don't think it's going to happen. But I was mad about. Us. They showed us that view of his face on purpose because they wanted us to know he was dead. When I watched that and and saw the face and saw the the bullet hole and the blunt, I said, oh, they just Downton Abbey to me, because this is the same way they killed Matthew. They made sure they we saw his face, his eyes were opened, the blood coming out because they wanted us to know he dead. Dead not. Coming back from this. Yeah, exactly. I really, I really think Neil Druckman just hated Jesse's character because I'm talking about he ain't getting no grand death.

1:04:53 He like turned. He just turned it's. Almost disrespectful. I felt very disrespectful, very much so. I was like, hold up. Like, first of all, I'm already mad because it's the one Asian character on the show, and then he goes out the way. Yeah, I felt very disrespected, like justice for Jesse. Hopefully we do get him in the third season because I I think the actor who plays him was great. It's like he's one of those characters where he's not very outwardly emotional. You know, he's very kind of droll and very kind of laid back.

1:05:33 But he communicates everything he needs to in his, you know, in his voice and his facial expressions. It's kind of like you can hear the little humor. You can see the seriousness. And he doesn't really have to change much much. You just kind of feel that shift within his person. So I hope we get to see more of him in the next season. But what was the other question I had? Oh, tell me about the what? What do they call them? The smart, the smart clickers, the stalkers. Stalkers his men was like, Nope, don't want to talk about them. Are they as scary in in the game as they are here? Because that first one, when it was stalking Ellie, I was sitting on the couch with my feet up and my knees pulled up. I was like no, no, no that.

1:06:24 Was scary. They're not supposed to do that. They they do catch you from behind a lot in the game, like you will see them and they will scatter and then they do like to come around and come and get and try to get you from the back. So yeah, you got to watch out for them. Luckily, though, a good shotgun takes them down fast. I'm. Wondering how it's going to come up later though, because it's not like it's a plot point or anything of the show or of the game or anything. So I'm wondering how they're going to bring that back in the show. Like what scene is going to be very impactful of it? OK, OK. And we see them early in the TV show.

1:07:05 Like Ellie was not fighting a a a stalker in during that time. Ellie would have died in the supermarket. Scene. Yeah. So yeah, they come, they come in later in Seattle. OK, OK. Plus. There's actually two more two more types of the of the zombies that we. Didn't we? Didn't. Get to see the Shamblers and the Rat King. Yeah, somebody posted a, someone shared, I guess it was like a poster of the different clicker types. And I saw this poster and I sent it to Anthony and I was like, Nope, 'cause I was already looking at the stalkers like no, I'm, I'm so sorry because you get you get this idea in your mind.

1:07:56 Season 1. Oh, they can't see, they can only hear. So you got to be quiet. These stalkers are like, fuck you and your silence. I'm going to come get you. And I was just like, no, no, no, those things, no. How did you guys feel about the introduction of sports? You know what? You took my question. That was literally going to be my question. Word for where we are reading each other's minds, Sir. I was really confused about how they brought it on only because like in the game, the way that Dina finds out. Well, one in the game, Ellie told Dina that she was immune way before like before any of the infection risk. Like it stopped.

1:08:44 So Dina did not react the same way that she did in the show like at all. Because Dina already had that piece of information where she was like, oh you were telling the truth Like it stopped. But it was kind of confusing because the scene in the the scene in the game, at least mask breaks and there were then they were in sports. And and so that's how Dina found out and she thought she had breathed in the spores. And it was kind of weird because they didn't do that in the show. But the very next episode is when they decide to introduce spores. So and kind of sports. Have been there since the beginning. Of the game. So we were already used to spores.

1:09:25 So, you know, they, they just introduced them later. So that scene made my skin itch. Yeah. Because I and, and I think if I'm not mistaken, all of that was practical as far as what was on the walls. What all of that was practical wasn't CGI. Like, they literally went in and built this and painted it. And I was just like sitting there, just skin crawling, like, and then she's just walking so calmly through it. And then when she sees the guy and he's literally breathing the spores out at her and she's just looking like, oh, that's interesting. It's like, no, this this show has has ways of making your skin crawl that I didn't think were possible. It's just OK, OK.

1:10:23 Well, you know, my thought was like, OK, they're all over her clothes, so what's going to happen when she goes back to this? Oh, it's raining. She's outside and it's raining. So we. Don't have to everybody give her her. Clothes. I never think about that. Yeah. Because even with I. Think about those things. She didn't even get, she didn't even get a chance to tell them about that, did she? No. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Anthony, to reuse your line. I think you're giving the writers too much credit. I think that rain thing is a reach. I just don't think they thought about that. I'll. I'll take that criticism. Well, to be honest, I mean to be honest, like sports, it never made sense to me in the game either because after in the first, in the.

1:11:07 So if we're going by scientific logic, the the minute that Ellie and Joel would have got out of the spores and then Joel took off his mask and Ellie smelled like funky spores, he would have breathed. He would have breathed. The virus itself does not make sense like in the game. That's my biggest gripe. The virus in the game does not make sense because they they, they solidified that it's in the air. So it's like, OK, so Dole, so Dole just breathing in spore just just for dookie, right, just for dookie dust then he fine. OK, so that's. Why?

1:11:47 I liked what they did in the first season and I was like, oh, they changed it, but it makes sense, so. Right. And I was OK to let that go. So it's kind of weird for it to come back in. I mean, yeah, that's why I I mean, at that point it was just something that was there. Like I said, they probably pulled in a curator. Yama forgot they wrote that shit. Say, you know what, we spend enough money, just leave the shit in. It ain't that big. I I thought they just brought the spores because they needed to to do the scene from the game with Nora so. Oh yeah, that too. They had to have they. Had to have the spores, you know? So that was that was from the game as well, the way that she that whole confrontation happened, yeah. That was pretty close.

1:12:28 Pretty. Close to that. OK. Was there anything that happened in the game within this confine? You know, not not talking from Abby's point of view, because we're not going to get to that yet, but is there anything that happened in the game that they didn't put in the show that you wish they would have? Jason said yes. Yeah. What you could, I mean, you could tell it I mean. Well, I touched on it before. Spoiler like. Well, no, because he. No, because Jesse did they're. Going to bring If they're going to bring him back next season for flashbacks, it might put. Because they already said that, that they met them at a certain Jesse met Ellie at a certain point. Now that can't happen because like I said, Jesse did like he ain't come back.

1:13:22 So it's a scene in the neighborhood where Ellie it's it's like one of the I'm pretty sure that the group remember it's one of the very like the handful of chases, like runners and clickers and stalkers chasing you. It's a scene where you were in where you were in the car. You driving Ellie. Ellie can't drive for shit. I've I've just every every scene that she drives. She just can't drive for shit. So she crashes the car and the car, I think I want to say it's upside down. And so you're having to shoot off zombies that are coming at you fast as hell, depending on what difficulty you are crawling, coming through the sides.

1:14:04 And you feel that anxious feeling. And then Jesse saves you at the last minute. OK. That can happen because, you know, Jesse's the one that need to save in. Neil Druckman hates Jesse. I really think he does because I thought. Now that you mentioned that that scene, I wonder if that's why they that that must be the Easter egg that they put in the flashback scene when Ellie is trying to figure out what Joe got her and she said, is it a convertible? He was like, what are you going to do with a convertible? Rash that motherfucker. What about you, Ben or Carlos? Was there anything in the in the game that they didn't include in the show that you would have liked to have seen? I think I would have liked to have seen, well, because of Eugene's plot line, it changed up a few things. So I would have liked to seen Dina and Ellie have found Eugene's stash and for it to have gone the way it did in the game.

1:15:03 Because I feel like the way it was in the game was very magical, very great, and it was a very like they. Must have got real high. They got high, they did a bunch of stuff like this stuff, but it's the conversation that happened to them. And it was also the fact that Ellie was having such a nice time before, like while Joel was dying, like his stuff. And I feel like that scene, it just felt better to me in the game, the way they handled that. But because of Eugene's whole one, it didn't go as quite like the game. Oh that's how we know. I've totally figured. Eugene is literally the plot device for them to get weed. I forget, I think this is. What I've been growing. I didn't remember Eugene because like I don't remember seeing Eugene physically, but then I'll but then we brought all like just.

1:15:48 Pictured in the game. Oh, yeah, like, oh, he just had weed. Oh, OK. W Eugene, man. W Eugene. OK. So are you guys satisfied with the way that they're handling the Abbey part of the story, like waiting towards the end and giving us what may possibly be an entire season just from her point of view? Or do you feel the way you felt in the game when you were forced to play her? Like man, if this be I don't, I don't, I don't want to know her story. I don't care. Well. It's not going to be the entire season thankfully.

1:16:29 But no, I think it was probably right for them to push off her her part because I know a lot of people stopped playing the game after Joel died and then you go immediately into Abby. Like my brother stopped playing the game entirely. So they probably maybe wanted to avoid that. But I'm down for it. I'm ready. I don't know how other people will feel for it, but I don't hate Abby. Boo. You're wrong, Ben. You got another answer. The stories like if you're, you're, you're on the right track earlier. Yeah, yeah, I, I mean, I'm very interested to see it from her point of view because like I said, I understand. I totally understand why she did what she did to Joel if it was me and that was my dad.

1:17:14 Especially if you don't know the wise, then yeah, because it's kind of like, OK, my dad is a doctor. Like who would want to harm one of the possibly last living doctors in in this type of world? Like it makes no sense. So for her to go and do the revenge the way she did, I understand it. I also, I also feel a little bit irritated by the way it happened because when she has the confrontation with Joel and and she, you know, basically it's like, yeah, you did this da, da, da. And he says, but I just saved your life. And she says, what life?

1:17:54 And she shoots him. And it kind of starts that thing. Then you have that same line repeated later on in the season when she and Ellie are, you know, confronting each other. She's looking like, I let you go and and you wasted it. And even with Owen, Owen was like, hey, I was the one that that that kept you alive, remember? And Ellie is like, but you still made me sit there and watch while she killed my I mean it. She's basically inflicting the same pain. You killed my dad. I'm going to kill yours. So yeah, it would make sense that Ellie comes after you, even as it made sense that Abby came after Joel.

1:18:36 So I'm, I'm curious to see how that's going to play out because I think now, especially with Jesse's death happening in front of her, this is not the second person Ellie has had to watch literally die in her face by the same person. Whatever Ellie wasn't in season 2 as far as you know, being big badass. I'm on a singular killing spree. I have a feeling now we're going to get it because at this point she's lost too much now, you know, But I'm curious to see it. I and, and the whole thing with Tommy, I need to see that version of Tommy. I need to see John Wick Tommy.

1:19:20 I need to see what version of Tommy had the, the wolves kind of, you know, pinned down to where they couldn't go anywhere because he was sniping at him. I need to see that version of Tommy. So OK, the Wolves versus the Sarah fights. How did you guys feel about the way that they put this story in? Do you feel like we got enough? Do you feel like we didn't get enough? What are your thoughts? Because all of y'all were like oh. I've been just waiting to talk about Isaac. Oh, hey, man, shout out to Jeffrey Wright. Man, I'm so glad they got him to play Yeah in this show. No, I like the scene and I like, I like the new scene that they added of his origin story of him becoming the leader. Like that's a new scene and I really like that, even though it's messed up as it was, but.

1:20:15 It's so Isaac, it is so interesting because when you see him, you you can kind of see the switch. You can see that he's kind of disgusted with the way these soldiers are acting with their mindset. And when he turns around and he just looks at them and throws the grenade and closes the door, like there is no expression on his face. And I was like, oh, this is somebody we don't want to mess with. He turned it off next. Thing you see him literally talking about cooking and how he used that to impress girls and and with the copper pots and then you turn around and you see what he's I was just like, hold up. This man is so screwed up like I don't know am I supposed to like him? Am I supposed to not like him?

1:20:58 Am I supposed to be I I still don't know how I'm supposed to feel about his character yet, But I think that's the one good thing about this whole wolves and seraphites conflict, because you see the error on both sides. So it's kind of like I don't want either one of y'all like y'all can wipe each other out as far as I can, you know, care 'cause y'all are crazy. All of y'all y'all are crazy. Like Jesse said, this isn't our war. Right, exactly. Like, and, and I think trying to trying to look at it from Ellie's point of view, you know, Ellie is already coming into this with prejudice against the wolves. You know, she's coming into Seattle.

1:21:40 She knows Abby is part of the wolves. This group is, you know, this group that was there are part of the wolves. So she's coming in. She's saying the dead Sarah fights in the forest. Oh, if that's what the wolves are capable of, they're bad, blah, blah, blah. Then you come in and you see what the Sarah fights are capable of. And I'm like, in this instance, I kind of feel like the whole, the, the comment that Isaac said he was like, I'm not here to play your chicken, you know, chicken versus egg. Which one came first game? All y'all crazy all all y'all just, I, I don't know Tommy just need to come in and wipe all of them off so they can go home They're just but I mean, is it that crazy in the games like with them hanging them in the.

1:22:27 Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. You looking like you and paying you like oh. Yeah, yeah. Because like, it's kind of out of favor. They show a scene of the ACT happening and I'm just like, oh, that looks so painful. I watched that scene just like this. I I don't, I don't do intestines and hooks. Well, that reminds me too much of candy, man. I can't. I was watching that scene like, Nope, Nope. That's when I would have turned around and went home. You see all these people hanging with their intestines. Out. You know what?

1:23:09 I don't need to know nothing about y'all. I don't need to try to save none of y'all. I don't need to know who pissed who off 1st and and why no. I think that's right. I think we introduced the certified early, don't they they? Did, yeah. They did it, yeah, pretty early, yes. Yeah, it was surprising. Yeah, I I don't understand when they first saw those people hanging with their intestines out. I'm like Hanukkah. You know what those good. Let's go back, right? You know, there's really nothing we can do to help him at this moment. And he would be very pissed off at the fact that he killed 19 people to save my ass. And I'm sitting here getting killed by these people because they want me to believe in their their Oracle, their prophet. What?

1:24:00 Yeah, I don't. I don't need to know what's going on between these two groups. But if I see a bunch of people hanging up with intestines hanging out, I don't. I don't leave this. That's right. And. Then if that wasn't enough, when you go through town and you see a group of them or, or when you see a group of those same people that are just kind of laid there dead and they're under a taunting model, like no, y'all are too petty for me. It's time to go. It's one thing to be petty and trade insults. Y'all are being petty by trading bodies. You know what?

1:24:41 But it's crazy. But one thing I do like, like what what I like about the game is they I love like the world, like the world, like the lore that you pick up as you going along in the game. So since you're not, you know, picking up like reading book book notes and shit throughout the game, they actually have to give it to you at face value. So I do like how they how they show, well, at least from the scars or scars, their vice perspective. Yeah, these are just actual, these are just people who found solace in religion. That was their way of getting through this. And they're and like, in their mind, they're they're still like a loving community.

1:25:23 They're just having to protect their own. It's just they are willing to do whatever is to protect their own. So in my like, in my like in my mind, it's like they they wanted to show empathy. I don't know why they wanted to show empathy just towards them, but they showed empathy towards the sacrifice with the little girl. I was surprised. I I was shocked. I saw a dead little girl on screen. They don't normally they try not to do that as often, but like they've, they've gotten very, very bold with it over the years. So I this. Is HBO. We had Game of Thrones. Their children are not new to them. Yeah. So it was like it was nice that they're building the world and they're like they're kind of giving you the background of this war that that we're going to have to see in in Season 2.

1:26:10 So I'm excited about that because like, like like I said, the second season is more grand, like it's more gravitized to it then is then the then the first half because there's so much conflicts going on at at that the same time. But yeah, I really like the Sarah fights and I still yeah, that's uncomfortable to watch. I don't want, I don't want spaghetti no more. No, no. Why? Did you have to say? That no no no real spoilers but isn't there another group in the game too? In another faction. I think. So you know what I could say?

1:26:55 Yeah, but like I I like I said, I forgot. Yeah, that's the end, end part of the game. Yeah, but like I said, I I actually forgot about them because like I said, I only see one thing when I play that game that's red. So I don't know who was the Seraphight who, who was WL 11? I I just, I thought they all were the same. I'm, I'm sorry, Jason. Is like dead, dead, dead. You die and you die. He's. Like he's a hammer and everything is a nail, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, man. Look, look, one time I go quiet. Why go quiet when I got some dynamite in my hands? No, like in the, like in the subway, do you? Do you remember when the wolves were in the subway and in the sides were the runners and the and the and the Clippers all the way in the subway and you're hiding from both of them? I mean, I took a rock and threw it right in the. Middle me too.

1:27:51 All those clickers came right in and they were shooting each other. They were eating each other. It was great. Well, one time I tried to do what you did, but it bounced off the tip of the subway and bounced back in. So question, Jason, you mentioned, you mentioned something about Ellie and Jesse in a subway scene. Is that was that supposed to be the scene that we saw? No, I'm, I'm saying Ellie and Jesse in the car. Oh, OK, OK. Yeah, they were in the car. OK, OK, OK. But yeah, the subway scene was kind of lackluster because like I say, in in the in the game, it's a whole lot more tense.

1:28:33 Well, because one Dina slow as shit. Dina Dina slow as shit. Oh. My God. Like. Yeah, Last time I played, Dina killed me. I'm like Dina, Wait a minute. How did she kill? Oh, she she killed you or she got you killed? Yes. Got me Killed. Caught me. She got me. Killed. Because she wasn't moving fast enough. No she killed me metaphorically and physically because I got a glitch in the game where she was supposed to climb over but she was fucking stuck so I could not climb over it and I just had 5 clickers just chopped my ass up. I was like. See, I would be mad if I played this game. I was like, you know what?

1:29:14 No, I'm not. I quit. It it gets very glitchy. One time I made Joe fly. I, I don't know how, but he was just, he was just in the air. That might have helped him in episode 2. Is there anything that you guys want to bring up or want to talk about before we end this show? Because I know this this season had a lot going on and almost also not quite enough. So any any last thoughts from you guys? It's for the gamers. Are y'all glad y'all didn't have to see the tutorial? Are you just having a snowball fight? Yeah, this is.

1:29:57 The snowball fight. I hate the snowball fight. Yeah, so in order to get you used to the mechanics of the game, they literally just have you have a snowball fight with kids. It it it was a waste of time. Yeah, it. Was that might have been fun before all of the tragedy in Jackson, like running a. Little bit of fun, just. Playing some snowballs. That's when they. Get attacked by 1000 clickers. I would have got PTSD of how of the 15 minutes of my life that I had to waste playing that play in that section. OK. Any any any final final thoughts, Anthony? I I have a quick question for them. What are you most excited about for next season? What that one thing I'm excited about, I'm not going to say that.

1:30:50 I'm just going to say fire. That's all I'm going to say. Fire and water. I can't wait. I can't wait to see that scene. That yeah, I've been talking about that scene. I've been wondering how it's going to turn out a certain. I'm wondering if there's going to be a certain plot plot line with the scars. I can't say any more about it, but I'm wondering if they're going to include that. I'd be disappointed. If I'd be disappointed if they didn't, yeah, we can't really talk about it next season much there's. No spoilers, no spoilers, Last thing I just got to say, Alice is a good girl. OK.

1:31:34 The best girl. I think we can go ahead and end our show. I want to thank everyone for coming on and having this very fun and spirited discussion. If you are online, tell us where we can find you. Let's start with Carlos. I'm I'm on TikTok Dragonborn apostate. Yeah, go check him out. He is hilarious, Jason. Oh well, you can find me on Facebook, Instagram, I think I think it's still called X whatever it's called. Find me there. Also. Hey, I'm starting to do shows from TikTok now, so you get to see me on TikTok, find me on TikTok friendly neighborhood dreadhead and then you got my brand, the popcorn page. Also on the side.

1:32:21 I love to make fun of megas and and do talk politics so come join me. There. Oh, you and Carlos will have a lot of fun together. You. 'Cause they have a lot of fun together. You need to check out Dragon. The pot state. Yeah. Then. I'm going to give you a follow up call. No, you cannot find me online just for my friends and family. OK, well in that case, well, you'll just have to come watch this video to see her lovely face and hear her opinions. Right, this is the only place online you will find me we. Appreciate it. We thank you so much and I thank you all for joining us on the Phantom Hybrid podcast to talk about The Last of Us season 2. When season 3 comes out, we will definitely have you back to have that gamer edition to talk about the season, but for now, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid.

1:33:19 You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.