The Walking Dead: Dead City S1E1 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #246

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Casey and Michelle, and we are discussing the first episode of the new Walking Dead spinoff. Dead City. This is the spinoff that follows the shenanigans, I guess you could say, of Negan and Maggie. Looks like it's taking place several years down the road, and Casey already has her handle. What you got to say, Casey? Because they said it's not a spinoff, it's a continuation of the story. Okay. It's still to tell you what they said. It said probably no spinoff. It's just a continuation, whatever.

1:06 It's a spinoff. But, you know, I mean, I get it because it does have characters that stem from the original. But I mean, if we call in like, you know, Feel The Walking Dead, a spinoff, and we called World Beyond a spinoff, even though, you know, we didn't see a familiar character in that one until the end of the second season, it's a spinoff. But I get it. I I mean I get it though I do get it because it's the it's characters from the main show like Fear wasn't World Beyond to Morgan and became the Morgan show and then that became you know a continuation of Morgan story. But here cuz then Darrell's would be a continuation too, correct?

1:53 Not a spin off. You okay. But in TV terms, it's a spinoff. It's not the. So it's a show that stems from the original show. It's a spinoff. But anyway, semantics aside, before we get into the like, meat and bones of the discussion, first thoughts, what did you guys think about the show? I mean this in the nicest way. Maggie need to get over herself because I'm so. Over the angry. You can't help me. I'm don't. I don't want you don't help me with little shit, but come help me save my son. I wish I will leave you here. But I get it.

2:37 Like we get it. We get it. But if you go on to this man for help, take the chip off your shoulder, even even a little bit, just just like a tinch. Like it's a little bit too much, You know what I mean? Because you asked him for help. Right. It's not like she learned anything. It feels like she hasn't learned anything or made any adjustments from that last episode we saw at the Commonwealth. It's like we're still on the same shit, but we have had discussions and you have time to process and to make some adjustments and changes. Like you still don't get that.

3:18 If we got to keep telling you again, when y'all kill other people, that is somebody's family and they can feel the same way that you're feeling. But we got to keep explaining that to her. Everyone else get it now. But she has this explain and I understand because it was traumatic. I get it. I got it. I feel the same way. But just like Casey was saying, but you need his help, so then you. You you you come in for help? Yeah. And you know, I thought about that when it first came on too, because, like you, I was thinking about the last conversation they had in the Commonwealth at the end of the main show where you know, she.

4:01 I mean, think about it. This is a person that you trusted to watch your son while you tried to go handle business, while you tried to go finish what what was started by the with the reefers. You left your son in his care. You told him that you were starting to trust him. You got to the point where you know, Yeah, you didn't forgive him, but you were at least cordial. Y'all knew. You knew that at on on some level, Y'all were on the same page as far as OK, look, yes, he did some shitty things in the past, but. He has done what he needed to do to save this group of people who had every reason to shun him, who had every reason to hate him. He still did what he needed to do to save them for whatever reason.

4:49 Whether it was his own selfish purposes, you know, his, you know, trying to redeem himself, or whether it was for him to show them that he was redeemable. He was a changed person. OK, y'all got to this point. You have this discussion. I mean, you basically said, look, I can't forget what you did. I can't forgive you. But I know that you're trying for her to go to that, to the way we see her in this first episode. It was like, what the hell is going on? What has happened over the last few years? But then okay. So I've watched this episode four Times Now because I will admit the first episode, the first time I watched it.

5:32 I don't think I was really feeling it. And it was partly because of of Maggie, because I was trying to figure out like, how is she in this handspace again. But I think I finally get it. It's like you've gotten to this point where this person who killed your husband, yes, you're not forgiving him, but you've kind of, I won't say made peace with it, but you're at an accepting point. You know what I'm saying? That this person is a person who has tried to change, who has tried to, you know, be a better person, who has apologized to you for what he has done. You know what I'm saying? And and done all of these things to make amends. Then here it is, several years later, you get raided. The person kidnaps your son and before they raid you, she hears the whistle.

6:28 That signified the Saviors, I think for for her being in that position where you, you have a community, you think you're safe and then these people come in, they take from you, they have the same like said, they have the same modus operandi that the Saviors did way back then. I think it basically just kind of triggered a lot of things for her and then because we don't know exactly how the Croat. And Negan fit at this point because all we know is that he used to be a part of the Saviors when Negan was in the, you know, when Negan was leading the Saviors. We don't know how deep he was into that group. We don't know.

7:09 He could have been one of Negan's, you know, we we just don't know the dynamics yet. But I think in her mind she's probably thinking, okay, you know what, This person came in the same way that you came at us. And I think it just triggers something for her. It's like okay here is another way where an association with you has brought havoc into my life. Like okay I had gotten over or not not gotten over. I had accepted what you had done to my husband. I've kind of sort of, like I said, made peace with it. You, you apologize. We were on this. You know, this this same page where we were like, OK, you know what? You and I will never be friends, we will never be friendly, but we have an understanding towards each other. OK, now here you are a few years later, somebody from your crew has once again come into my life and taken someone from me that I love.

8:04 And I just think it just at this point she just pissed like, God damn it, can I not get away from this man and him wreaking havoc in my life? So I can not sort of understand? The way that she is, she's just like pitch. She's like okay. You know what? I could have lived the rest of my life. I could have been cool with me again. As far as, you know what he did. He apologized. We're cool. I. Didn't have to deal. With him. And then now all of a sudden I need him because I need to understand who I'm up against when I try to go save my child. So I once I looked at it a couple of times and I thought about like that was like I can understand how.

8:44 She would be pissed. And then in this episode, you know, we see that she has nightmares. But how many times did you rewatch this episode to get to this point? Probably probably by the second or third time, Correct. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I'm saying. But you know, and and we've discussed this before, a lot of times when we watch something for the first time, we're not really watching it to like. Delve deep into it. You're trying to see what the story is that they're presenting to you first, and they're always on the second watch. Now you can start paying attention to the things you didn't catch the first time right. I still. I catch the nuances. And I I I understand, I I totally there still should be some some character growth in that and it hasn't been just some.

9:38 Yeah, and I get that. And I mean it. It it's. We're we're we're using. We keep rehashing and reusing a past trauma and saying that is the only thing that's pushing her like it. It has to be we have to do something else. We can't just rely on that like we OK we don't rely on the fact that he did this to Glenn, OK we got this. We we already been through this. For years we have now made changes, good or bad, about our feelings. So when we did our panel about Negan, it's like we're going we starting to change our feelings either one way or the other, or make adjustments. But it hasn't.

10:22 Been there. I don't even care about the whistling. I know the whistling will bring back the memories, but this is totally different dude here. So we got a expectation is everyone is not like Negan. That just means that he was in Negan's group. But we still got to figure out who this who this person is. I was going to call him another name. We will have to figure out who that person is. And not keep. Oh, Negan, I hate you, Okay. I do hate you. However, I understand you did what you had to do. We get that. But you won't help me with my son, Okay. Because it's one of your people. So I do need your information, your background. I mean, we don't work together. I still don't like you, but we still don't work together.

11:02 But I'm not going to be seeing here every few minutes looking like I'm about to kill, you know, that's we passed that point now we passed it. Should be because how old this person know what Probably 13/14/15. Yeah, I think it's OK. So I know, Michelle, you weren't here for the last few episodes of Fear The Walking Dead, but Casey and I, we we we probably. Drove this pointed to the ground about the fact that The Walking Dead, I don't know, they did good with casting for children on the main show, but like Fear The Walking Dead, the character of Mo, you can't tell me that was a 8 year old child. Same thing here with Herschel. Now, I've seen varying reports online because everybody's trying to figure out where in the timeline this is.

11:48 Right, so I've seen some people say that this takes place two years after the end of the main show. There is no way in hell because Herschel does not look like 18 year old. On this show, he looks like he's got to be somewhere 1416 ish. You know, I would give him for him being the I'd give him being the boy I'll give him. I'll give him 7th, 7th and 8th grade. Yeah, no 7/7. I don't even give them 12 and 13 because some of these 12 and 13 year olds look like they 16 and then 16 year olds look like they 18 in real life.

12:29 Yeah, but like when I pull up to when I pulled up, you pull up to to one of the middle schools around here. You be like, is that a teacher or a student? I'm confused. That's true. That's true, But you're not going to tell me that this is only two years after? No, no, no. That I can't go for. Because Herschel in that show was only around. Eight. Maybe Now. Maybe. So I I know the boys have their growth spurts. They don't have them that early. No, they don't. No. So, so this has to be maybe 5-6 years. I would, I would say around that, maybe somewhere around that.

13:09 Yeah, and some of the stuff that's happening, I'm like, this has to be a while later. Because I need to see how the Commonwealth plays a part. Well, see, that's the thing. Because I remember towards the end, Maggie did try to go back and rebuild Hilltop. Now obviously, from what we find out in this episode, they weren't able to make that work, so they relocated. My question is Okay. So let's talk about the logistics of the show. Okay. In comparisons to The Walking Dead, since this is a continuation of the story and not a spinoff. OK, so The Walking Dead Alexandria was based in Virginia.

13:50 We gathered that the Commonwealth may be around Ohio. I think that was what we were thinking, if I remember correctly. So my question is 1 if you had to move the Hilltop from Virginia. How far out did you go? Like, I don't think like we see that the new city here is New Babylon and that's kind of sort of where Maggie's people are in that area because she went, you know, we saw the city marker when she went to go call when or when she shot up the flair for her person to come and get Jenny, who was the girl that Megan is traveling around with. So my question is, what was it about Hilltop that made the Croat? Come from Manhattan, in the state that Manhattan is. You go to the Hilltop to steal their brand. Like, I understand scavenging, but it just kind of puts into question, where is this, where is the new Hilltop located? And again, if that is the case.

14:56 Why is Maggie so far from her other people, like we've already seen what happened the last time you just went off and and left your people. You lost so many people who were close to you, like your family, your your closest people to you. I just don't see how she would once again, especially after everything they went through with the reapers and with the Commonwealth, how you just going to go up and relocate. Again in another state. Because again, coming from New York to Virginia for some grain, that just doesn't make sense.

15:36 Right. And then you're encountering another system too, like this is outside of the Commonwealth with it. They have a whole another system with government, with the sheriff and all that stuff. So that's I'm like, what? OK, that's all I have to say. So, and I know it's the first episode, I know they're they're trying to establish the world and then we'll we'll get deeper into it and find out more information. But just from a first watch, it's kind of like, what the hell is going on? Where is Maggie's new camp located? Why is she so far from her people? Are any of our people still with her or did she leave everybody behind?

16:17 Like, okay, if you're telling me again? That these are the same system, you know, same community, same people, just in a different location. So does that mean that Elijah is with you? Does that mean that Lydia is with you, will be in this series? You know, I know that those two were at the premiere and, you know, people ask, they were like, oh, are they in the show? And somebody was like, no, they're just supporting, But I was like Lydia and Elijah that was. Lydia was more so, I guess you could say Megan's person, because he kind of took to her, protected her, that sort of thing. But by the end of the main series, she was with Elijah, and Elijah was Maggie's person that was from her community.

17:01 So I would think that if she moved Hilltop, they would be with her. That's what I would think. I don't think they would have stayed in Commonwealth. But then they were all going to work together though, to rebuild these communities. That's why I was like, OK, I'm kind of confused because there's resources there. We've seen the resources. When you can get an available hairpiece at any moment, we should be able to rebuild a community and. Remember, because even remember when up with Lance. They had brought supplies to rebuild. Because they had the train system going and we still don't know anything about the communities that he was getting that from, which I still suspect might be CRM related. But anyway, so that was my question, like why did Maggie move so far away And then to be in this area New Babylon and OK, let me let me let me say this.

17:59 As far as New Babylon, you know, we we find out about this city, we meet the Marshall for this city and we kind of hear what they're about. Okay, I'm going to tell you now, I am not a fan of Pearly Armstrong from the From Jump and I'm going to tell you why. So you come into this bar looking for Negan and this is after everything that's happened at the beginning, which we're we're kind of jumping around, but you come into this bar looking for Negan. And the way that you come in, first of all, everybody is already on edge. When you step into the room. Then you introduce yourself and you talk about who you are. You're the Marshal of New Babylon and you're about law and order. Y'all have these different rules, and if they don't, follow the rules.

18:51 They get this certain type of punishment. So for Negan, he's looking for Negan. Negan is a wanted man in this first episode because supposedly he has killed one of the Marshals and they what? What is it that Armstrong says? He said for this crime he will be executed, but not just executed, he will be hung upside down and split from his groin to his head now. I had a whole issue with that because here you are in a world where all the old systems have pretty much been killed.

19:33 You know, you're having to start over and this is something that we talked about with the Commonwealth. You're bringing back broken procedures, broken policies to fix something. And it's just like that shit didn't work in the old world. Why are you bringing it back in in the new world and not only bringing it back? Notice that when he talked about Megan and the punishment, he didn't say he would be tried. He didn't say that he would get a hearing. He basically said he killed this marshal and this is what we're going to do to him again. Why? His kind of had a court.

20:14 I mean it. Was a shitty they did. It was unfair. And if they had to put somebody to death, they were going to do it in a humane way. The fact that you were talking about hanging this man upside down and splitting him in half from growing to head, and you're talking about it with not necessarily a sense of Glee, but you are, you are kind of reveling and telling the people this so that they are scared and they will tell you what you want to know. What type of person gets off on that? Kind of, you know, you are part of a broken system because this is not what law and order should be. And you know, just some of the things that he says later on in the episode when he gets to a point where he's he's looking for Maggie and Negan at because they've kidnapped one of his little sheriff's deputies or whatever, whatever you want to call them.

21:13 And he's trying to convince Maggie to come out of hiding. He was like, miss, let me tell you who I am. My name is Pearly Armstrong. If you haven't deduced by now, I'm a Marshall. I don't drink. I don't. What do you say I don't drink, I don't smoke. Or, you know, I I follow the like. Basically you're telling us this stuff as if to say, oh, I'm a good person because I don't do these things. But what you're telling me. I don't even know if he was trying to say he was better than her. He's trying to say that because he doesn't do these things, he's a good person and she should be able to trust him. But for for me, looking at this one, if your introduction to how good of a person is, is that you don't do these things that quote UN quote other people consider bad, you're already telling me that you're a judgmental person.

22:07 Okay 2. You are a person who don't do these bad things, but you have no problems. And taking pleasure and telling people how you're going to execute a person by splitting him from growing to head, you have no problems. Push the lady into the You have no problems pushing a woman into a herd of walkers because she's not giving you the information you need, or because she runs an establishment that serves alcohol, that allows gambling that allows. Prostitution or whatever you want to call it at this point, you know what I'm saying? Like you're already condemning people because of what, quote UN quote, you deem to be acceptable behavior.

22:49 And this is what you have made into law again and have a problem with this type of leadership because this is the problem with the world we live in now. This is why it's broken people consistently trying to govern how other people live, how other people you know. What other people do with their bodies? What, like if I want to smoke, If I want to drink, If I want to go out and fuck every single person I come across? If it's not hurting you, what business is it of yours? Especially in a world like this, where there literally is no law. You get to make your own, you get to make up the rules and they making up some shitty ones. I want to go back to, I want to go to the Commonwealth. I'll work, I'll work that out.

23:37 Sing you to jail with three hearts of the cot. Yeah. No before murder. I'm gonna slam your face into that damn fence and the walkers eat you or hang hang you in the town square so everybody can see your body dead and riding in in death. Right. Like what? Like and this is the kind of thing that you like you. Again, you are trying to get people to follow the rules by putting fear in them. Who else did that, Negan? I mean, the fact that you even walked into the bar and talked about what he did to the group, which I'm guessing within the last years, just from what we've heard of the conversation.

24:28 Negan may have had to go back to some of his old ways because he has other people to take care of. That's kind of the gist that I got. So maybe some people are are telling about what he did in the circle or as we see the Croat was part of his group. We don't know if the Croat was still with the Saviors at the time that all this happened. But word has gotten around. So he's trying to paint Megan as this really bad guy because this is what he did and This is why we're going to execute him. But you don't sound like you're any better except for the fact that you hide behind, quote, UN quote the law.

25:10 And we all know how that goes when people hide behind the badge and make bad decisions or do bad things. So yeah. Of of this dude at this point. So I I don't know. And then it's like, OK, first of all, before we go on the fact that the the woman that he threw into the crowd, I was surprised to see Michelle heard on this show. I was like, oh, yeah, OK, this is cool because I don't know if you know, she's married to Garrett Dillonhunt who played John Dory Junior. They've been married, I think 27 years.

25:51 So when I saw her, I said oh, OK, so we lost John Dory, but we're getting his wife as a character. OK, that's cool for. 5 seconds. I was like OK for. 5. Seconds I was very excited like OK, we is new character for this world right? Right. OK. But I will say this about her character and these people in this bar so and it's not so much. When Maggie shows up to the bar looking for Negan, even though that was a good little part, because, you know, at the beginning Maggie comes in, she she, I guess you can say she's kind of being undercover because she has a different look. She's coming in, you know, drinking. And I guess she's, she's supposed to be acting like she's a little bit drunk.

26:39 And she tells the bartender, you know, she was like, I'm not in the right head space because he offers her another drink. And he was like, what's what's happening? She said, well, I have a cabin a few miles from here left to go scavenge. And came back. And some groaners weren't, first of all, hearing her, you were groaners. I was like, okay Casey, I think you're going to have to add groaners to our tshirt. And carry on and carry on. I still hate carry on. I'm not using that term. No I don't. Even know what what they carry on the the, the, the virus. I never, I never understood. But you know when she's in the bar and she's she's basically trying to find out information about Megan and the guy was like, oh, you know you you happen to you're in luck because we have a guy here who deals with growners. And she was like, really?

27:31 Is he good? He was like, he's the best we got. And the maggots, like, so does he live here in the hotel or is he from around here? I was like, see, this is where you messed up. You being being Captain Obvious. Now you look as as as as much. As Maggie's had to go through, and as much as she has had to do the number of communities she's been through, Maggie should know better than to ask pointed questions like that. Like you are making it very obvious that you already know who you were supposed to be looking for. I was like, okay, whatever. One too many. Questions. God damn it. Too many. Right. But we do see in this bar scene, Maggie knows how to handle herself because they do catch her.

28:12 She she kind of sneaks off. She finds she just happens to find the right room that Megan is in. She sneaks into the hotel room. She grabs a knife off the dresser, and when she walks towards the bathroom, because you, you hear the water running. He's in the shower and it looks like he he's doing this in the shower. So I don't know if he's like, crying, if he's upset. We don't know what's going on because this is the first glimpse we've gotten of Megan. But of course she gets caught. They take her back. To the bar area. And Michelle hurts character, you know, she's basically like, oh, are you here for such and such person, Vasquez? I think so. She thinks that I guess Maggie is a spy for maybe a competitor, maybe somebody else who is trying to shake them down. We really don't know.

29:00 But when she gets ready to attack Maggie, you know it's her. She's got two guys holding Maggie by each arm. Maggie. You know, she kind of kicks her boot on the table and she has this little blade that comes out of her boot. I was like, oh, that's handy. But she real spy shit. Real spy shit, yeah. But she basically gets herself out of that situation. Megan comes in, sees the scuffle, and I don't know if he actually sees that it's Maggie at that point. I just think he knows that somebody was in his room looking for him. But. What we found out in the episode later, Maggie has been looking for Negan, and she's not been making it a secret that she's looking for Megan.

29:43 Maybe she hasn't said who she is, but like when the when the Armstrong and his people come in, the young guy who's with him, when they find out that, you know, Negan is gone, a woman took him. He was like, is this the same woman that's been looking for him up and down the coast and breaking bones in her weight? I was like, oh, OK, so. Maggie has been on a mission, and that could also have something to do. He said that because he called her map. Well, no, that's that's not what Armstrong said. The other guy, the young guy, he said it because he was saying it like he was scared, you know, he was like, oh, is this the same person that's been looking for him up and down the coast and breaking, breaking bones?

30:27 So apparently, like I said, Maggie's been making herself known like she's been looking for me again. Either she keeps missing him or people are not telling her and she's been breaking bones in the process. Again, you know, we had this conversation. I did this panel last year about Maggie's kind of descent into not necessarily a villain, but we do see a darker version of her character. But when Armstrong answers, you know, of course this is around the time when. After he has put the bar owner, you know, to the walkers. But the thing that was bothering me about that whole scene is when they realize that the marshals are coming and somebody comes in and tells her marshals are here and she's like, oh, OK, everybody clean this up, put this stuff up.

31:18 Because again, she's serving alcohol. They're playing cars, they're gambling. When Maggie first arrives at the bar, you know, you see two people who are obviously. Street walkers, skin tray, whatever you want to call it, whatever they call it in this particular world, you know, I don't think, I don't think I've ever heard them use the word prostitute. So I don't know if that's what they would call it, but whatever, It's obvious that they are there for sexual pleasure, you know what I'm saying? And those are all things that are outlawed in New Babylon. So when he comes in the bar, the way that everybody is acting. I was like, y'all are automatically telling this man that y'all are guilty of something. It may not necessarily be hiding me again, but the fact that you were sitting at the bar, nobody's giving him eye contact and y'all are sitting there like 3 people didn't just walk into your bar.

32:15 Y'all don't say hey Marshall, how can we help you? Would you like a drink? I mean I'm sure they had non alcoholic stuff too, but I mean. You're sitting there avoiding looking at him, ignoring him. You're already telling every you're telling everybody by your body language and your behavior that you were doing something you had no business doing before this man walked up in the door. Because I'm sorry, me if I'm not doing anything guilty. I don't care. Fucking cop Squad could come in. I'm going to ask. I'm be like, hey, what's going on? Which I need? Can I help you? Oh, we're looking for this person. I don't know who this person is. The fact that he kept saying, has anybody seen this man? And nobody answered?

33:00 Y'all are already telling this man that he has been here, right? You can just say yes, he was here. And then some other woman came and then they disappeared. You could have said that and he would have been out the door. You could have been like, yeah, he stopped in here, you know, was here for a couple of days. Some woman came and grabbed them. We don't know why y'all could. Have that wouldn't have been a lie. It wouldn't have been. I mean, yes, granted, Megan was probably like, like they said, Megan was there working out clearing the walkers. But she could have said something like, yeah, we had him clearing out the walkers, but then when we saw The Wanted posters, we sent him on his way because we didn't want anything to have to do with that. You could have said something.

33:50 That would have deflected that and not caused the marshals to do what they ended up doing. That was just like, OK, it's now at this point, like I said, probably 5-6 years removed from the main show. So at this point the the apocalypse, the zombie apocalypse, has been in effect for roughly 20 years, OK. Somewhere around there, you mean to tell me y'all didn't grow any common sense during that time. I mean, seriously, like, she died a pointless death. She didn't have to die. All you had to do is tell a little white lie or, you know, kind of something believable.

34:37 Yeah. But especially if this man is a Marshall. He's going, he knows how to read body language. He knows how to tell when people are lying to him. He ain't gonna, dummy. And then, of course, you know, he does find her her map book, because when Maggie comes in, she's in a she's in a SUV when Negan runs out of the bar after he sees the scuffle. There's also a young girl who trips Maggie up and then she kind of turns and looks at her before she leaves out. And I was like, who is this kid that's look like him and Andy's daughter? Plus she too old. So they are running and Maggie gets into the truck to go pursue them and one of the guys comes out of the bar and, you know, tries to take her out of the the truck and she kicks him and her map book falls out the truck. She, you know, pays no attention to it or she doesn't see it because she's so focused on getting to Megan. But when Armstrong finds this map book, I was sitting there like, now maybe it's because.

35:45 I've never. Well, I won't say I've never. I haven't had to use a physical map book in ages. You know, we have cell phones, we have GPS. They don't have this in this time. So I understand. They got to get like the old, you know, I don't even remember what you call them. Things because you don't call them a map. But what do you call them? It's not an Atlas, It's a what is it, anyway? It's a Atlas. Okay. I don't remember. So look, I just gave my a my a. You made me think like it's not an A. Yeah, I was thinking that too, like wait a second. But I remember using those on trips and stuff. Yeah, I haven't in a long time because you know, I'm I'm more, I'm more a MapQuest person from when I started using, you know maps to get to places.

36:36 I'm a MapQuest person. I didn't really use the Atlas growing up. So, but how did you get to places? Girl. You should print out the 17 pages the MapQuest gave you for the before MapQuest. Yeah, I went to Alabama and that was it. As as a young child, I didn't really start going anywhere until I until I was in my like late 20s as far as well. I mean, I would say that too, I guess, because. I mean, I never was. We were at passengers, we were kids. But I just followed along on the map. Yeah, No. Because I'm sorry, I'm a nerd. I follow along on the map. That's the thing, because anywhere that my dad took us, that was a road trip. He already knew how to get there, so he never used the map for any of that. No, I mean my parents didn't either, but I'm just saying I just had the map in the back.

37:20 I will just looked at the map that's. I am the map girl. Please, please and thank you. Yeah, that was so cool. You go to the gas station we had and sometimes they'll have free maps. I'll just grab the map. I would. I would look at maps then. But of course, like you said, we're kids. I. I don't know how to read these things, which is another reason why I was I was so flabbergasted about Mo being able to read some stuff in Fear. But anyway, because I don't think. Have you watched Fear yet, Michelle? Okay. So I'm not going to say anything else about fear. You'll just you'll have to see it and then you'll know what the conversation is. But anyway, going back to Maggie. So when when Armstrong picks up this Atlas, he notices that there's a page missing.

38:04 Now if I remember correctly about how to read a a Atlas and looking at the book, most of the times when you have those pages, they're numbered and it tells you what. Area you're looking at on that particular page number. Now the crazy thing is when he turns to the back to look at the index, he wasn't looking for the page number, he was going to alphabetical order. So I don't remember if Atlas is actually if they're on the page in alphabetical order. But that wouldn't make sense either because when you look at him going down the list of the M names to find Manhattan on page 53, all of the other names in front of it.

38:48 Were all on different pages. So I was like, how did he know for sure that that was Manhattan? Or was that something that like, I'm trying to figure out how he knew to look for Manhattan? Like unless you are familiar with that particular Atlas or unless you have heard? He could have realized like. That. She's going up the coast, but if you're going up you in Jersey next, you're going to New York. Right, so just. The pattern on. The shoreline, you know, going up. OK. OK and so. You wouldn't look for Miami do. We know what state New Babylon is in.

39:30 I would assume it's in New Jersey. OK. That's just me. Because when it because it looks like once they got to New York, because me remember even at the beginning she was sitting on the edge of the shore, right? She's looking across from Jersey to New York. Okay. So if that's the case, then it would make sense. It would make more sense as far as why the Croat ended up in her area because New Jersey is so close to New York. But again, then that would beg the question, why is she all the way to hell in New Jersey when all her people are like in Virginia, Ohio? Like why is she so far away from them again? It seems like the people who are scavenging you going, which I I I guess I understand because you're going further and further and further out, you know what I mean? And that's how people keep running. You would think with all the scavenging y'all that would have been ran into some of these other communities at some point. Because that's what happened when Jesus met Darryl and Rick, you know, they all trying to scavenge for this fucking truck, you know, and.

40:43 But you know, but that's how. Because even here, and he was like, I'm about to open y'all world. Like it's more out here. But at some point, well, no matter where Maggie went to, you're going to run into somebody. And if she out here making this name for herself, she going to be the next motherfucker on a warning poster. And see, I looked it up and they actually said it is a federation of states. It's a network of survivor communities throughout New Jersey and New York. OK, OK. But still it's like, OK. But not Manhattan, because Manhattan is by itself. Manhattan is by itself because when everything went down, they. Bombed all the bridges so nobody could get off the island, which I was like, that's so fucked up.

41:39 But I am not surprised. No, I wouldn't. Yeah, that would. That would. As a government worker, that would be my idea too, because. At at that point, again, just from the information we gathered from that, it seems like. Back at the beginning, they probably didn't know that this was something that was widespread. They probably thought, oh, this started on Manhattan. That's probably where the most people were sick. And they thought, OK, if we could just close off the the island, we can contain it. You know, I think that was their thing, which like you said, it does make sense. But at the same time, it's like you condemned all those people to die.

42:25 That's just horrible. That's horrible. But the other thing, and I know I'm nitpicking about this, so was New Babylon a thing? A federation of states before the zombie apocalypse? Or did they find some kind of factory where they could where they can make city signs during the zombie apocalypse? Because they have a they have a whole sign that says New Babylon, Federation of States, blah blah blah. I was like, where do you get the sign from? You know there is somebody that there's the sign. Right. The sign maker is with the wig maker. Right. I mean, they have a location, you just didn't need to know where to go.

43:07 Yeah, read the map. I guess because I see 20 years down the line, y'all still got bullets. I know it's. So I'm just saying these are the things that I think of like, OK, 1520 years down the line. Nobody is manufacturing bullets except for Eugene, and Eugene is probably out of that business. And he got a baby to raise. But other people, it's it's not that bad. I mean, I don't understand why Eugene is the only one who can, especially if where we were. Because I feel like if any of those people were from Georgia or the country, y'all should be able to know how to do that. I'm confused.

43:49 You understand what I'm saying. Y'all need to. I mean, I'm not asking for like certain bullets. You should be able to do. You should know how to. Dale should have known how to do bullets. He look like a dude who hunted in the past. Like you have an idea where to go, how bullets are made. I don't find that far off. I think I would. I would see that being. More of a Merle thing, because that would seem like he's more handson with the crossbow with. With the knives. But but Darrell should have still knew. So Darrell didn't do as much hunting in the past. No, he did. That's the thing. Because him and Merle were on their own a lot. And he he talked about the fact that they were, they would go and hunt and they would do this stuff because their dad was never around.

44:37 And when he was, he was drunk and he was beating folks. Their mom obviously wasn't doing much to take care of them. Darrell talked about. The fact that he was always hanging around Merle because Merle was the one that looked out for him and they would go out and hunt and they would do this right? And Merle did did a a shitty job because he didn't teach him about bullets. All right, so but yeah, that's not far off but. No, you know that's not fair because general uses a cross. I know, I'm just joking, but yeah, he's. He's we're. Be the one with the bullets. See, I'm saying and I'm wrong saying somebody from the country, but you will be a little bit more aware like, OK, I'm from Miami. I'm not going to be aware of making bullets. However, I'll be more aware of maybe marine life and how we can survive on those type of things.

45:27 We know that Darryl knows all of that stuff. But also if you think about it, just taking that that argument that you're giving. Merle. Like I said, I feel like he would be the one to know about bullets. Because if you think about it, Merle was the Cruel 1. Merle was the one who had no problems hurting people. So Merle to me would seem like he would know how to. He would probably know how to. Make a bullet or know how to get them because he would use it to intimidate people and whatever. But even in the past I'm thinking about past jobs, so somebody in New Babylon has ideas about bullets, so I'm okay with them having. The endless supply of bullets. It be the endless supply of hair products that concerns. We are not about to go into this hair product conversation. But see that?

46:12 So see, I'm just going with the logic is like, the bullet thing, I'm OK. The signs, you are absolutely right. Like signs of making a sign, like they didn't go to a Kinko's. I mean, like, what are you doing? Bullets I get, but a nice fresh sign. It's not hand painted right? That's not hand painted like someone painted it green and then we like did a stencil of New Babylon I get. That. Right. This look like this is coming from a nice warehouse. I want to know where that warehouse is because we're getting everyone's getting their supplies from them. Like, I'm just saying, this was this is the stuff that I pay attention to on a second and third rewatch. Like let's get a new Babylon science. New Babylon something.

46:59 But well, you passed one of them. One of them was the bar having power. I understand you make your own alcohol, but how you got the LED lights working? I mean, help me, they probably had a generator. What kind of generation I get into this too? What kind of generation? So I got to argue. Gas, gas and gas. Fear The Walking Dead, Virginia have figured out a way to make gas. So I'm sure again, we're talking maybe 1520 years into the zombie apocalypse. Somebody had to figure out a way to make some kind of fuel. Because you're not just. I'm sorry, 20 years down the line, I better have some kind of goddamn lights.

47:41 I'm going to be in the dark for the rest of my life. I'm going to figure something out now this makes me this makes me question OK you got Virginia figuring this out with fear and figuring out how to to also about you know getting bitten to And then you have new Babylon with new signs power gas Rick and they crew. I need them to go to the library and read up on some things because we're behind. So here's the other question that I have so. OK, we got the end of The Walking Dead, right? We have the Daryl Dixon show. We have the Ricky Michon show. We had this show. Now, this show has already established a timeline. Like I said, we got to be somewhere four to six years, give or take from the end of the main show. The fact that Maggie came to Megan for help, yes, I understand that because of.

48:37 His past association with the Crow app, But my question is, this is Herschel we are talking about. You didn't think to go ask any of your other people to come help save your son. So that makes me wonder, OK, so Ricky Michonne, are they back yet? Are they still gone 5-6 years you know, from the end of the show? Is Darrell still in France at this point? Like, why did you not go to the people you knew would come help you come hell or hot water? But you know what? But you went to need? Me. I get it, though. I get it. But didn't also back in still on The Walking Dead didn't because remember when they was was in the subways and they because wasn't that New York.

49:31 When it was on the subways and they had Megan because you know the city. They were going. Towards DC OK, because something that made me think like didn't they say he knew New York, which is because that's why they took him when the. DC that was DC That was DC but OK, hear it. Oh well. But I get it though, because she kind of after that situation where Rick kind of. She didn't side with me and he, you know, he showed mercy. She started distancing herself from them anyway. But at this point. I'm, I'm sorry. She's still distant now, yeah. But she's distancing to herself. And even with the Commonwealth, even if everyone came back and they were living in Commonwealth, she's off. She has always been and she's been doing that, and I know they ridden that because she left the show or whatnot, that she's always off doing her own thing.

50:24 So when she heard the whistle, I can't whistle. And she associated that with Negan and she feels like Negan is the one to give it. She didn't think about them helping her. I can see, I can see it. I can see it because she really has. Development character development thing. Because at this point where we are in the Dance City timeline, this is 12 years removed from when Rick. Allowed Megan to live. I know it don't matter cuz she's still mad at Megan and it's been 12 years exactly like you said she's still. Yeah, so she's.

51:06 Against Rick and and Michelle. She's not rationalizing. Then let me go get the crew. Let me get these soldiers from Commonwealth to help me. No, because you have friends. Like you literally have Carol, even. If you don't get it and this is the again, so this is the thing that. Though she's not thinking, she's thinking who can help me with this person I know is associated. I know where that that whistling comes from. So that person has to be the same type of character Negan is. So I need a Negan to fight a Negan. But I don't know. I guess it still doesn't make sense because at this point. Well, at the end of the show, Maggie had pretty much made her amends with her people. I mean, when you come back and you realize half the people you loved are dead and you were gone for all of it, you weren't here for any of that one.

52:00 Okay, I I guess I'm applying. Real life is short, especially in a zombie apocalypse. You do your forgiveness and you you move on like. Once you think Rick is dead and OK, you you probably have thought Rick is dead because you saw you was there when the bridge blew up. But I'm pretty sure that when Darryl left and told the kids or told Judith, if I see them out there, I'll bring them home. Darryl and Caroline, the only person who know at this point that Rick may be alive and Michonne went to go find them. I'm sure they probably shared that information with. The and and Ricky Michonne really could be at the. The honeymoon suite and Commonwealth.

52:41 But she is not going back there to ask for help. That wasn't her first thing in her mind. When she heard that whistle brought her back another 12/13/14 years. How long has been since Glenn and her mission was to get him to fight Negan. To fight another Negan. She one thing about Rick and Rochon to fight them, she'll leave them out of it, which is stupid because you you need everyone to help you. I don't understand how 2 effing people are going to go into. Manhattan Manhattan where there's. Going to be a whole lot of walkers. Walkers, plus the people you have to deal with to get your son back, right? Especially you are not Tom Cruise and Mission Impossible. You can't do it.

53:29 This is a person you can't do already. Pretty much already made his amends to you. Megan owes her nothing at this point, and he does say something about this in this episode. Like he calls her out on every passive aggressive line she's giving him. Megan does not owe her anything at this point, so he could be like, look, I already saved your son once all them years ago. Literally. On the other hand, you talking Rick, Carol, Michonne, Aaron, all this is nephew to them. You mean to tell me that they wouldn't come and help you at the drop of a dime and be like, oh okay, well, we know what we can do. Let's go kill this motherfucker and get your son back. Can we come up with a plan?

54:11 Right. That she's not doing it. She's not even thinking it. Let let's go back to the fact that you don't even really care what happened to his wife and child to even invest in. Well, I don't. I shouldn't take him because he maybe need to go back and find his wife or child. You asked one line, which I hate. They did that. Where's Annie and your kid? He say nothing? You say? OK, move on. You coming with me? Come on. So I will say this as far as that goes. I have a feeling the fact that he didn't answer probably gave her her answer and then when he said something in the truck later on. And also this bracelet, I don't know, is that a bracelet that Annie wore in The Walking Dead?

54:57 I don't know. I I thought it, I thought about it, but I don't know. Because I was like when she walked into his room when she snuck into the hotel room and she grabbed the knife. The bracelet was there 1st and she picked up the bracelet and looked at it and she set it back down. When he was in the truck talking to her, he was holding the bracelet and he was like it's almost like you know how you take a a piece of jewelry or something that means something to you and you just kind of finger it. You just kind of rub on it and it's kind of like giving you whatever you need, like some kind of comfort. So he was doing this to her and you know he was telling her, he said. What the marshals say I did, it didn't go down like that, but I figure for whatever I did do, I have paid the price to me.

55:46 I feel like that told the story of what may have happened to Annie and the child. Either they got killed or she got tired of being in the danger and she left him and took the child. Now I do know that based on interviews we will find out. What? What happened to Annie? I think that, yeah, I figured that they going to, they going to have to because they can't leave us like this. But it also shows that it goes with the evidence that we will probably later talk about at another panel about Maggie's path, because her compassion and empathy is, like, gone. Come on, Hanukkah, Don't help.

56:33 Don't. Don't do the silver lining. I didn't say. All of it, but she. But I feel like the given, the person, given one, given the fact that this is Negan we're talking about, she's already on shaky ground having to deal with this man who was the source of so much trauma for her now. I know for most people when something traumatic like that happens, they don't just volunteer information. And I think in a sense her not pushing the issue with Megan, Like first of all, he's there, not with Annie and his child, He's there with a whole another girl. And then when we get the background of who this girl is, we find out that he was working on a farm. She was there on the farm.

57:26 Her dad went out on the run, never came back to look. She the girl went to go look for her dad, found him as a Walker and apparently the way that he died was because people killed him and killed him in a horrific way. She wanted to go with him, I guess maybe because she saw on the farm that he took care of himself. And we already know from the past show Megan OKI got to say it. Megan is a girl dad. You saw the way that he took to Judith. You saw the way he took to Lydia. Now to this girl. He is a girl, Dad. Which also leads me to believe that who whatever child he had with Andy, that was probably a girl, too. That's just. I don't know. That's just my thinking. But I'm thinking because of the situation and what they're dealing with, one Maggie has to stay focused because her son's life is on the line.

58:21 Now I'm just saying that this is just part of evidence because I feel like she has already start losing her compassion and empathy before this and it just and it's. In the train. Car. She talked about that, but she started getting that back. But again, and I'll just see if you can just see it in her now. And I'm just saying that this is just a little bit evidence. He's not going to give her any information. He will probably talk about it later. I got that part, but I'm just talking about her in general. In this episode throughout, that's what I'm saying, it kind of is more evidence to talk about her different path that she's taking because of everything that has happened. But as far as you know, I I'm not.

59:03 I I wouldn't say that she's not she's not pushing the knee. Excuse me, the Annie and kid thing because of that lack of. Come past. She's probably like okay. You know what? This is something he obviously does not want to talk about right now. I'm not about to push this or I really think she don't care too. I think I didn't think. She doesn't care. I don't think that's the IT has nothing to do with Herschel. It has nothing to do with Herschel. She really don't. This is not her freedom, I don't think. I don't think that's the case. Because if you look at the way that she and Annie interacted in the, you know, in that final season of The Walking Dead. I think she more so was Okay. I wanted to say Okay.

59:49 She dealt with Negan because Negan came with Annie. And you can see that those two women for what? At for all of their differences. There was a little bit of a bond there. Partial even took to Annie, so I I wouldn't say that. But this has now been years and I'm being honest with you. There's people who I may have known for years and I asked about somebody they said they don't want to talk about and I move on. I don't necessarily sometimes care. I'm be honest with you. And she, she lays, she's more harsh than I am. So I can see her not caring because it got nothing to do with this is not her, this is not her. They're not friends.

1:00:29 So. I will ask because you with this other girl and I'm like, that's. Time I saw you. You had a wife in it. Right. And then you're like you say those things and I move on. I'm not trying to get information from you because she don't care about his life, even if she met Annie. And Annie is nice and, oh, I would have been friends with Annie in the real life on the farm, but I don't really care. I don't. I don't care. I don't. I don't know if I feel. Like and it's OK, but it's not a it's not a bad thing for it. They're not friends, so it's OK. It's not her family. It's OK to to not like, OK, well, I'm not going to get into that. Let's move on.

1:01:10 I got to get my son. That's more important to her. Because you could tell clearly we know that's the the most important thing. That's the most important. Thing. She's just being, like, super reckless with it. But the one thing. That I did like was when they was on the boat and Mia was talking to her and you know because she she being an asshole and he told her just think about all the husbands that you killed the Dick. Like no granted you didn't kill him in front of the wife. Maybe. We don't know. But even still, you wiped out literally. Just think of Outpost.

1:01:52 If you don't think about no other war, no other battle, no other thing that y'all had just the outpost, right? How many husbands did you kill? How many brothers and people who waited for these people to come home did you kill? You want to be mad at me because I did with you? No. That also makes me think that Maggie need to get that chip off her shoulder. Oh yeah, you did the same thing. Yeah, that. And that's why I was saying, you know. It's good that he called her on her BS on the boat because, again, here's the thing. You obviously came to ask me for help because you know what I'm capable of.

1:02:34 And you know that you're going to need that in order to get your son back. You know, especially after Megan talked to her and was like, oh, yeah, so. A lot of crazy people in my in my crew, but this one was like extra special with a cherry on top. Once you hear. This and like yes, Maggie has descended into a little bit of darkness. She has become a tough person. She has done what needs to be done in order to protect her people. However, I don't think. Very well. Huh. No, she doesn't.

1:03:16 OK, I'll give you that. But what I'm saying is you are not going to, you are never going to be the person that Negan was. Yes, Megan did some horrible things. And yes, he has tried to make up for it since he has tried to redeem himself. But somewhere in there, Megan can still be that person if he needs to be. And right now, Maggie needs him to be that person. But he But that's the hard part. Like he feels like he made-up for it. He may not be that person. He has no motivation to really be that person for you. There's no.

1:03:59 Understand. I understand that. That's the hard part that she got to think about like you. You got to think about maybe I need to come at this a different way. Maybe I need to get information more from him and how he became that person, because I need to be that person to get my son back. But I can expect that person. So I'm just saying that's what she should come at this with because trying to. Hopefully she's not coming at it, that he's going to turn into that person because he has no motivation. You have more motivation to become him for this moment because first of all, everyone will become what they need to become to get their kid. So she got to become Negan more.

1:04:42 Nobody is or everybody is, right? So if I have to become a Negan, then I'm going to become a Negan and you're going to have to be OK with that because you. Came to me. Right. But no, I'm talking about me. Maggie got to be okay with. She may have to become the Negan and be that Negan. And I think she'll be okay with that because I'm getting my son. This ain't because I'm trying to get some grains and, you know, and help some other people. I'm getting my kid. The only, I'm sorry, blood that I have left on this planet. So if I got to be a effing bastard, I'm going to be. But see, I don't know if she has that in her, especially after the confrontation. She tries to kill Armstrong and he catches her and they have this tussle.

1:05:30 She knocks him out and she has the opportunity to kill him at this point, which for me, you're keeping me from saving my son. I probably would have at this point, but she hesitates. And then when Negan comes in the room and looks at her. It's like what he said to her on the boat because this dude, what did he do? He introduced himself and he said, I have a wife and three daughters. She thought about that. She was like, OK, so I don't think, I think no matter what the situation is now, maybe once she gets to the crow at and she actually sees her. So, right. That's when I'm talking about. That's when she's going to have to be. Yeah, that is. Have to get to him, I don't think. She don't need to be. I don't think. No.

1:06:10 And that's what I'm saying. She's going to do that when she gets to. The like in the video game, the boss, she don't have to be ruthless when she gets to the boss. He or she don't have to kill these random people on the side because they do have families and they may just be messengers. They may not even know what is going on at the top. But I I think for, OK, so for me in that situation, when this man is on top of you with a gun trying to choke you and you say they have my son, that's why I need him. He so he can help me get my son back. And Armstrong looks at her and then double s down on trying to choke her. No, you should have killed him, because this is a man that will come after you again. This is the one thing, right?

1:06:55 This is the one thing about these characters in The Walking Dead. Like, I understand at some point you want to hold on to your humanity and you want to kind of show some mercy to people, but you have learned in the past that that don't always work out in your favor. This man made it very clear once you said I'm using him to save my son. You just told me you are a father, so you should know that you do whatever to save your children. So you going to still try to kill me once I tell you that this is my, this is my motive. I'm This is why I have him. This is why I've been breaking bones all up the coast. Because somebody took my son and I'm trying to get him, you know? At this.

1:07:42 Point. Well then I have a question. When she had that little knife in that boot, did she kill anybody in the bar? She. Stabbed Michelle Her's character with. It OK, I thought. She OK? Well, hey, Michelle could have bled out now so she could have killed this other friend. I'm just saying. I'm just. I'm just. Saying. She only she didn't. She didn't because of that conversation they had on the boat. She Hey, that's why I. Said yeah, that's only because he had that conversation with her. So she trying to prove a point. Girl, don't prove a point now, just go ahead, right? And that's what's going to happen.

1:08:22 But otherwise she would have killed. Him. Yeah, but I think at the same time, like, I know that there's a line, she says. Somewhere down the line. Because you see it in the in the promos for the show. Where she says, what was it? It takes a monster to make a monster. I don't know if she was talking about herself, if she was talking about him. The crow at I I don't know. But if you think about it, like, I don't think Maggie wants to get to that point in every the fact that Negan has to be the person to remind you or to say something to you to be like, yo, look, bitch, you ain't too far from where I am. She's she. I think she's trying to hold on to that, but like as the years go by, again, we don't know what's been going on these last 5-6 years.

1:09:07 We don't. We don't know why she ended up on the Croats radar. We don't know how they they found them or whatever the case may be. We we don't know, but all. I know is they bet not. They bet not Have him gunning for her like the Pope was and we never fucking find out why. It better be a fucking reason. Because other than that, what's the point of the show? Yeah, better have a reason, because what the fuck did Maggie do? She been doing some things, see, we given a lot of crap. She must be doing something. I mean, but she's. We don't know what she did when she was with Georgie. I know because she keeps getting on these lists. Now I I have an issue.

1:09:50 Come on now. And like Maggie spent Pope spent so much of his time and and and and people. Trying to trying to kill her and we we like what you came into her community and and and killed people and now you're what? Because she got away. She's on your list but she got away with a whole bunch of other people. What was it about her that made it special? She had to have fucked with him or did something and of course like you said we never found that out and from I think from what I understand I I read another interview maybe a few weeks ago. That was talking about the following season, or that season, and the following season was supposed to explore more of the Reapers.

1:10:38 But of course they decided to end the show, so they had to cut a lot of that out. So I think that's one reason why it felt disjointed, because that didn't make sense. None of that made sense to me, so, right. But anyway, so we. Look, we'll have to do a whole other show panel, whatever, talking about Maggie and and her complex, the complexity of her character, because we can sit here for a long time. So. So let's move on, because I want to talk about Manhattan a little bit because we do get Maggie Negan and like I said, they they kidnapped one of the marshals, deputies, trainees, whatever you want to call it. They go by boat to Manhattan.

1:11:26 And of course, Manhattan looks like it's been bombed out. The bridge is gone, You have all these walkers. But the crazy thing is when they finally get in the streets, the streets are eerily empty. And I was like that. There's so many people on this island, and yet these streets are empty. They have to be doing something. And of course there's this. There's this building in the distance that has smoke coming from it. Nobody knows what the smoke is. Maggie says that she sees it once in the morning, once in the evening. So I don't know if they're cooking. I kind of feel like they may be Lauren Walker's to wherever it is and burning. That fire is way too big to be cooking. And it's so dark.

1:12:16 So that's kind of what I think it is, but. Manhattan is interesting because when they come into the, when they come into the city, when they come into the streets, you see all these walkers on the ground and those walkers look smashed. And we already know where this is going because we've seen it in the promos as they're walking down the street, all of a sudden a Walker falls into a car and then you just start seeing walkers just falling from the sky. But they are around a whole, they're in the middle of Manhattan. There's all these different buildings, so I'm assuming there's windows open somewhere and walkers are just walking off the but it's like how many walkers are still in those?

1:12:58 It like, again, this is almost 20 years down the line. Yeah, you know, it's ended over like 5 million people in in new. York, but not on, not on all them floors. Like at some point, but. No, because if they if they bombed the the the bridges and can't nobody get out, you stuck there. Yeah, you go home and and they probably had martial law. You had to be in the house. People are dying in the building. I understand what I'm saying. If you think about the floors in those buildings. Even if they have 2000 people to a floor over the course of 20 years? You mean to tell me if there's an open window there?

1:13:38 Those walkers haven't already all fallen out? That makes no sense. Because. No, not no sound. Nothing's happening night. Scrapers are built to to within you, just trying to jump from the building. But how then how are they getting out the building if if they're I thought? Somebody was throwing them. No, no, I thought they were falling out because of the noise. But there was no noise. They following the sound of the other walkers. You don't. You don't remember the truck that was playing the music lowering the walkers? Oh, I did see the truck. Yeah, and I'm sure that's how they're clearing the streets, but they're also, they've laid traps and all this other stuff.

1:14:22 But again, like, even if you have a whole bunch of walkers on the floor. And at some point, if y'all got open windows, the the Walker should all be like. I know that there's probably other floors on those buildings that are, they probably still have. Walkers. It could. It could. Because remember, Walking Dead, they go. Dormant, They do what? They remember the dormant walkers, they they was all just laying and if you high enough on the floor. You can't hear what's going on on the ground. Yeah. OK.

1:15:02 I'll, I'll give you that one. They're they're just dormant. There's there's nothing to agitate them. There's nothing to make them like, hey, what's that noise? So they just, you know, in a state of dormancy. I guess, but it's like once a Walker body hits a car and smashes windows, that starts making noise because you notice there there's tended to be more falling down, but. Anyway, I'm not going to spend too much time on that. It was just an interesting thought to me. Like y'all still got walkers on the floors, That's just randomly falling after all this time. But anyways, so they're dodging falling walkers and we noticed that there's a mysterious figure at the top of one of the buildings.

1:15:49 And you know, I thought at the same time, So I was like, is she throwing walkers? But then again, I don't see somebody just being on a a rooftop. With walkers, just, I I don't know, not somebody. Yeah, especially not somebody who looks like she might be an old lady. So anyway, less OK. So like we said, there was a, there was somebody driving some kind of truck or whatever, playing music while they were walking through the streets. And you know, they're looking like, what is this? And then of course, you see the the walkers kind of coming. Some of the walkers start heading towards them because they're like, oh, dinner.

1:16:33 OK, let's go over here. So, Negan, I forgot what the other guy's name is. And Maggie, they go hide behind these trash bags. Now while they're sitting here hiding, sudden you hear the chittering. And you see that there are cockroaches that that are crawling over them, like all in the hair, all on the face. And I was like, I will face the walkers. New York cockroaches. Hell to the no. I was so weird it out. Girl. Everybody was like, I like how was like, Nope.

1:17:17 Because what was it the guy, he actually, he pulled one of the trash bags. He was trying to, you know, he was trying to get the roaches off of him and he kind of, I guess, loses balance or whatever. He touches one of the trash bags and when he pulls the bag back, you see all they look like the scarabs from the mummy. That's how they were scattering. They look like the scarabs from the mummy, and they're all over each other. And yeah, Negan was like, Nope. And they get up and they leave and they start going towards the the walkers. Like, I guess they're like, OK, you know what if I got to face walkers or cockroaches, I'm facing these walkers. And then you see the machine gunfire going through the crowd because Pearly Armstrong and his other person Grits was his name has come because they're looking for their person.

1:18:08 So they go into this building. That used to be a dry cleaners and they're trying to figure out a way to get out of there. And that's when Pearly comes in and like I said, he starts doing this monologue to Maggie, who is hiding. He's like miss, you know, my name is Pearly Armstrong. I'm one of the marshals. What did he like? I said, what did he say? I don't drink, I don't smoke, blah, blah, blah. I have a, you know, I have a wife and three kids and, you know, I just want you to know what kind of people you're dealing with and blah, blah, blah. I don't know why you're with this guy. But maybe you can come out and tell me he was like because if I have to come find you, I'm going to be a little less open. No, that again, you are not endearing me to your character by the way that you were doing this because you know you just you are you seem like the shoot first asked questions later type person which we see that happening because while he's talking to Maggie, Megan and the other guy they're kind of crouched.

1:19:09 Trying to hide from him, this very silent Walker comes from behind and attacks. You know the other guy and he falls on top of him. Now this is it. Okay. This city is pushing the limits on the growth factor because not only do we get the whole all the cockroaches this Walker is on top of, dude. Has blood coming out of his mouth now. First of all, y'all need to stop having your mouth open when you're around walkers. I thought about this when Maggie was killed. You got all the blood. So the blood from this Walker, We see something coming out of his mouth. And I was like, what the fuck am I watching? Is this the Last of Us?

1:19:57 Because something is coming out the mouth. It was a fucking rat's tail because there was a rat. In the throat of the Walker. And it was coming out as the Walker was trying to bite this dude. I was like, y'all all about showing us the gross stuff today. So anyway, Megan kills the Walker, he pulls the guy up and he's telling him he's like, look, you when I tell you to move, you need to move, all of a sudden you hear Pearly Armstrong. Megan turns and kind of moves back. Curly kills his own person. I'm like, first of all, your aim is shit. Second of all, shoot first, ask questions later. Like, dude, you just killed your own person and got your ass kicked in the process.

1:20:50 Because Maggie, you know she did end up, you know they they ended up fighting and she ended up knocking him out. So I'm like all this for nothing, your boy grits. Who? OK, I'm going to say it. Nothing against the actor. Waste of screen time because this this dude not only says nothing in the entire episode, he gets killed by Walker's standing guard. Now I was kind of wondering about this character because I was like, he has not uttered a word. But walkers are sitting there trying to come through the door, and he's paying attention to the other side.

1:21:33 I was kind of wondering at first if he was maybe death because he didn't act like a person who was like, I'm sorry if I have a whole horde of walkers trying to get through glass doors to get to me. I'm not having my back turn. I'm going to be facing those doors. To make sure, and I understand, you were probably trying to make sure that Maggie and Megan, they didn't, they didn't come out, But when? The glass is breaking. Something should go. Something should have told him, OK, you know what? They're about to get in. Let me get the fuck out of here. But he didn't do anything. I will stick it out. I'm going to stand right here.

1:22:15 I'm not leaving my post. Right, right. And now, now you did. I was just like That was the waste That was the waste of a character like good kudos. Do you forget a paycheck for not having to do much? But what was the point anyway? So, well, no, they needed an extra. So when they killed off 2, it didn't seem like, although they did give the one couple more lines he lasted a little long one to do. I guess like we only go it's three of y'all but only two of y'all. Gonna get a check.

1:22:55 Right. Because what's gonna end up happening is the sheriff is gonna be a part of Negan and Maggie's crew 'cause now it's gonna be three of them. He he probably got that gross thing like Maggie got going on. Ohh no he gonna get. They gonna end up, they gonna end up working together, 'cause they gonna have to survive this now. He go get his man. I guess before now Megan Negan to lift his ass in and knocked out. I guess they were like okay, if the walkers get you, the walkers get you. Which of course we see that that probably didn't happen because when they go back to show all three of the crew, you see the walkers eating the one, you see the walkers eating the other.

1:23:37 And then right there where Armstrong was knocked out, he's no longer there, but his hat is still there. So I was like, okay, he done got up and left. Or he done got up and moved or did something. He was like, I'm not about to become y'all's dessert, right? So Maggie and Megan, they go, they go further into the building, they come into this room and it looks like a seamstress room, which again, this is a dry cleaner. So it probably, you know, one of those places that does dry cleaning and alterations. So they have. Was it a match that they lit or a flashlight or something? Because they were using it to kind of see around the room And then you see this old lady and she knocks the light out.

1:24:18 It was a match because she blew it out. Okay. That's what I thought. Okay. So after we see that, we get a shot of Herschel and the Croat. Herschel is in a chair. He's bound and shackled, which again, looking at him, he looks like he has to be like. Maybe 1314 because he he's actually kind of tall, he's he's quite solid and he has a bit of a deep voice. So I don't think he's like young, young. I don't think he's like late teenagers either. So he's got to be somewhere like right in that, right in that puberty stage. So somewhere between I would say 13 and 15 is what he looks like and you know. The Croat is coming at him and he's, you know, saying all of these things, you know, talking about Negan, the person he's. What was it?

1:25:14 He told Herschel. He was like, yeah, you seem like a tough kid, like your mom, probably like your dad. Do you know the person who killed your dad? You know, he lived amongst your mother's people for a while. His name was Negan. And you kind of see Herschel bristle at that. And then. He's trying to get information from Herschel, Batney Gang and Herschel pulls a little tough boy, the tough guy at he was like, you can do what you want. I ain't telling you shit. I was like, yeah, that's definitely not an 1112 year old. Yeah, he's like, OK, I'm about to play this game with you. He starts pulling out these little tools that you always see in movies and TV shows where people used to torture people.

1:25:55 And as he's pulling out these tools, you start to see Herschel revert into a child. Like, he starts acting properly, like, oh shit, I'm scared. This, this, this dude is nuts. And the Croat looks like he's about to use one of the tools on Herschel when someone comes in and it's like, oh, this, you know, he escaped. So apparently they were holding somebody else hostage, somebody that the Croat wanted information about this guy's people. So I was like, okay, is this one of Maggie's people, or is this somebody from another community? We don't know this guy is running. He's trying to get away. He looks up and sees a zip line. And I was like, oh okay. So we're going to divergent route.

1:26:36 We're going to have zip lines going all across the city. Okay, cool. But this zip line goes right down into the court courtyard when when enough weight is on it to where the crow at is. And apparently this is not the first time someone has tried to escape him. From zip line because he cuts the zip line, the dude falls 20 stories to his death and the crow act kind of reaches over the the the balcony. He was like 20 stories. I think that's a record. So obviously this is not the first time he has killed someone trying to use the zip line, but I was like okay so. I don't know how that's going to factor because again, we don't know who this person was.

1:27:20 We don't know what community he's from, We don't know why the Croat had him or whatever. But you kind of get an idea just in these last few minutes of the mindset of the Croat. And you do realize that he is a little cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. Oh, is he? I didn't even notice that. Oh. OK. Oh, yes, I do remember that. Yes. So yeah, he's missing. It. When I saw it, after she explained it, it was he. He was from Sanctuary. I thought Megan burned it. Remember, Let decided to wait. Oh, OK. OK. That's what it's giving me, burn vibes. OK, OK.

1:28:00 Which would make sense as to why he won't Megan fucking dead. Could be, but see, at this point, we don't know it. Will you know what? We know that because they've been saying that all through the previews. Yeah, through the previous. But as of this episode, we don't know that. We don't know that he wants. Yeah, I'm. I'm just saying at the the reasoning behind him wanting Megan. Yeah, we know he's an antagonist. But I'm just saying this being one of the reasons. So I wonder if he used Mag if he if he's using Herschel to get to Maggie to get to Megan? I mean, because other than that, why would you mention the Herschel about the fact that Negan was part of Maggie's community and all this other stuff like? I mean, well, he also knows that. That Negan killed Glenn.

1:28:55 Yeah, but every. I mean, if you were part of Sanctuary, you know that. Yeah. But I don't know. I don't know it he. He does seem like, you know, like I said he he's got to screw loose. So that's going to be interesting to see exactly what the motivation is for his character. Like what is his? As says modus operandi? Like why are you targeting Maggie? What? What? What was the purpose? Like, why did you take Herschel? Why did you come after her? Like, was it that once you realize that this is this is the person who leads the community that you rated, you were like, oh, okay, well, let me. I don't know. Because in my mind are you taking Herschel from Maggie?

1:29:40 I don't know if I would think, oh, OK well, Maggie is going to go to Negan, you know, and and draw him out and bring him to me. I again, I don't know. It just. Anybody thinking? I don't. I don't think they were thinking like that, OK? And that's just too, too, too, too far. Yeah, too, too involved in. OK, the other thing I did want to talk about about this episode. Y'all could have gave us a fucking warning before Y'all showed us Maggie's a nightmare, because those sequences I did not need to see again that has been etched into my brain. I did not need to see Glenn being killed in that way again. But you know, I've never rewatched that episode. I've seen it twice and that's it me sing. I've seen it once too much for me. And I'm like, Oh yeah, I won't be watching. That's the only episode I've only seen one time. Yeah.

1:30:35 And then have that flashback. I was like, the fuck. I girl when when I saw it, I thought they were just going to show the part where he like you. You see him lift Lucille. I thought it was just going to stop. No, y'all had to show us everything. You had to show us Glenn's face. And as much as I don't want Rick's. Face. I'm sitting here doing this. Because I'm like, how much of this are y'all going to show? And y'all showed way too fucking much They. Didn't show the whole thing. I was like I did not need to see that. But I know why they did. It and I understand why they did it. But it's really, it was really for the new people because they won't get why they have feelings like this towards each. Other I don't think anybody who's not. Already invested in The Walking Dead universe is like new people are not watching this show.

1:31:35 Yeah, they are. Yeah they are. And yeah because some of these people are are they didn't they came towards the end so they may have not seen the that season when all of this came down to it. I. Have a hard time believing that. I really do, because most people. Because even even in our panel there was someone who didn't see the beginning. They started like the last two seasons and they said they were going to go back and catch up. So you have people that do that. I guess, I don't know, maybe I'm just a different type of fan or different type of viewer because if I am watching a show. That is based on established characters and I'm want you know, I'm paying attention to all the the promos and everything for this show.

1:32:27 I'm gonna do some background research like okay. So why do these two characters have a show together and then when you do that, you're gonna find out the background of them anyway. I don't know, I guess. Like I said, I guess. Yeah, because you you do that and then this is what you also do. Two, which is talk about the show, but you and we have, I have heard you guys talk about this and I've talked about this with you. There's some people are not that invested, but there's not like literally we go to the movies, we watch the show, we come back. And and watch people talk and listen to people talk about we watch the episode of something we literally 5 seconds later go and people not doing that and if they see a good preview or something, they're like oh this show looks interesting. No, wait a minute.

1:33:13 They're on season six. I don't have time to go back and watch season one through 5. I just watch season 6 and watch recaps and ask other people what happened. Other people will tell you Negan killed Glenn and you're like, OK, I get that. But now they showed you what that shit really look like, so now you really understand me. This shit again, You know, for them, they're like, oh, this is reason why she hate them. It's not just a simple killing. I mean, this was devastating. Look on YouTube Y'all knew people I. Don't need to. And they still, and even with that, they still won't get it because there was a buildup of this for us, you know what I'm saying? They get the, you know the the people will talk about it on YouTube and you know, show it, but they still won't have the same emotional damage that we had occurred. From watching and I didn't need that emotional damage again. As a person who was invested in these characters, y'all didn't need to show me that shit again, Y'all. I agree.

1:34:16 I looked down and I started doing something else real quick because I was like, I don't need to see it. But I said I I understood why they did like I. Said. I was looking at it like this because I. Was not I? I get it. I was like. OK, they're not going to show this for too long. They showed that for way longer than I expected them to. Like that was they're trying to establish that like. Do we really need to see? That yeah, they trying to establish that for newer friends who came towards the end and for us who sit here and be like, well, you know maybe she should have changed to really show us this is exactly what she went through and we. Right. And we no, she still should have some growth from it. I I do believe that. I mean over time, you know.

1:34:58 No I don't believe that. You should be hugging on this man and y'all you know and you have. But for yourself you needed to grow because you have a kid to raise and it could cause it would If she doesn't, the way it's turning her insides I you just have to you going to have to move past that a little bit. It's kind of like the, it's kind of like Rick and. Card. Just a little bit. I don't like Rick and Carl. Like Carl was like we have to get past this. We can't keep this cycle up of okay, you kill and then I kill and then you kill and then I kill. Because then where will it stop? It won't. And we will always be fighting. We will always be.

1:35:41 And you have that hate. And yes, we are in a world where we have to deal with so many other things that you, she got to let some of it go. Because it's going to turn her into something that she doesn't want to be turned into. So when I say these things, I'm not saying I totally understand the trauma and the grief, but for her sake, she's going to have to. Otherwise it's going to be. A bunch of shows of. Help me, but I'm being mean to you. Help me but because at that point that is going to make people start hating Maggie like bitch. Yeah, right. And then she's going to start doing things.

1:36:22 That she shouldn't be doing because. Of it. Because of it. I mean think about think about the train car. You know, she was sitting there being mean to him and being, you know, oh, I I'm asking you to come on this this mission to help us get killed because you know this area, but I'm a bitch and Dick you the whole way. And then you might get mad because when you're trying to escape from walkers, you let him go up on the train car 1st and then he doesn't do what he. That he can to save you. What did you expect, right. Have been like Oh yeah I was you know he and in his mind oh after you after you don't need me anymore.

1:37:03 You probably going to kill me. He would never remember that to her and she's doing the same thing again. So yeah I do agree at this point if you're not going to if you can't forgive him, which totally understandable. You can't forgive him and you're going to keep up this very antagonistic attitude towards him. Leave him the fuck alone. Live. His own life in that hotel with that little girl. Right, because you you have to, at a certain point realize which he has told you several times, This is the choice he made in what was happening to his people.

1:37:48 And he wanted to show don't F with us anymore. So you're going to have to, in your mind, be like, I can't forgive you. But I'm going to have to understand that everyone made different choices of how to survive and to keep their people safe. Because he didn't do what the Governor did. I mean, he wasn't as worse as the Governor. He had rules and regulations, and she has to understand that. And she's to someone else, she's the same villain. That so she got to understand. Like okay, it's it was a harsh way to kill someone. First of all you could have just shot Glenn to be honest with you to prove your point.

1:38:29 Or cut off a finger then shoot them. Extreme, but okay, I might have put that aside. And we and I don't need to. I don't want you in my life. And maybe one day my son is going to come back and try to kill you. That's on you. But you shouldn't even put that on your your son to do. But she can't let it go. It it bleeds on to her kid when he gets older. At some point if he don't die from this, he's going to try to kill him, which he shouldn't because that starts to cycle all over again and then that girl who's close to him. If she continues to be close to him, then she go after, you see what I'm saying? So it's like you you have to be like we have to do better, which is what Carl was saying. Carl was saying.

1:39:18 But yeah, I ignore Carl if I ignore Carl, Carl that. Out of my. Yeah, yeah, too much time is passed at this point, you know. But. But the what about the intro? I like the intro. So I did like the intro. It's it's very different. The style of it is very different and I don't, I don't know, I guess it's very artsy, but I do like it. It was, I think it was interesting just kind of seeing the way it's. Because we're so used to seeing the intros for The Walking Dead and like even with Fear The Walking Dead, like Fear The Walking Dead, they they have a very specific way that they do their title cars and their intro. It's basically like anthology style. Like you see the purse, the silhouette of the person that the episode is going to be mainly about. With The Walking Dead, you kind of get these different little. Pieces of of the world that they're in now. I did like the fact that they kept like that little line of walkers that was similar to the original show in in. Intro.

1:40:38 But yeah, New York is just it looks so bad in the intro and just even throughout the show like we see. You know, we watch stories about different apocalypses all the time, and for for me, very prominently About New York is like the original Stand miniseries. When you see how you know it wasn't even bombed out, then it was just you see what a mess being an apocalypse made. You know, all the cars, all the trash, all the buildings that have been looted and everything but this put it on a whole.

1:41:21 Other level because like that little shot where you see Maggie and Megan and the Manhattan Bridge is in the background and you see just how decimated it is. Like, it really brings into focus what was done to try to contain this, this infection, this virus. Like Y'all really cut people off from the rest of the world thinking that Y'all were going to take care of this. And it's like. Okay. And I think somebody else mentioned, and I don't remember if this is in the intro, if it was somewhere someone mentioned that one of the memorial buildings for the World Trade Center is actually shown in an unfinished state.

1:42:11 Because this particular, you know, The Walking Dead, the zombie apocalypse, started right around 2010. And that was before that monument was finished. So someone said that that you see it unfinished in there. And I was like, oh, I didn't notice that, but I want to go through and and see it. But yeah, see, that's the thing. I don't remember what I don't remember, but I know it's there. So I'll probably, you know, look through the intro a little bit more closely. But I didn't, I didn't really want to pause it. At the time, because I was like, okay, let me just kind of get into this mindset because of course it's The Walking Dead, but it's a new show.

1:42:52 It has a new feel. Even with these characters that we are familiar with, in a sense, they felt like strangers. And in a way that's a good thing because these are characters who are years removed from the last time we saw them. You know, we saw Negan was back to his, you know, smart ass, sarcastic self. Even with Maggie just kind of sort of pushing her buttons, which I was like, why would you do this? But again, that last conversation, y'all had you in your mind, made your amends. You've done everything you can to protect these people. You saved her son. You kept her from.

1:43:34 Possibly becoming the monster that she could have been back then if she had killed Pamela. Like you tried to stop her from going on the same path you ended up going on, you know? And so now here it is, years later, she's coming to you for help. But of course she's she's being an asshole about it in a way. And you say a little bit about. I told her no. It's like. Because I mean technically if you look at it, he don't repaid any debt that he had. That that he can, because the only other thing he can do is bring Glenn back to life, which of course we know he can't do. And you. Can't in the jail he went in, sided with the.

1:44:18 With the whisperers he does slept with Alpha in his socks. All these and trying to get all make all these amends and you still treat me like a Dick girl. Fuck you and that baby. And then I saved your baby and you still talk about I owe you. Because at this rate he going to owe her to the end of time, even if they get her to like still owe me. Yeah, and that's one of those things. Kind of like what Michelle is saying, at some point you have to let if if you didn't kill him, which you had plenty of opportunity to do, which he expected you to do. If your decision was to not kill him, then I feel like in order for you to grow, in order for you to heal, you have to let it go. And I know she made that.

1:45:08 She said that line in the show and she was like what you did, you don't come back from. You got to let it go because other than that, like you said that attitude or that you know that hatred, if you hold on to it, that's good. Your son is going to see that eventually. But hell, Negan already tell his son. You know, I know he's going to comfort me when you get older. Right. I'll be ready, right? He pulled the kill bill. Yeah, exactly. But if that's the case, then you let your son deal with that however he wants to do it. You made a decision not to kill him. You made a decision to allow him to continue to participate in the community.

1:45:54 You even got to. You even got to a point where he was like, I can't forgive you, but I can acknowledge that you a different person. So if there are days when I can't face you, just understand that. You and Annie can stay here because you've earned your place. How do you go from that to what you're doing now? Like it's almost like you, you regressed and why? So I don't know, maybe they will explore that a little bit more as the episodes go. But you know, we only get 6 episodes of this show. I don't know if they're going to do with season 2 or not, but I'm assuming that whatever they they did with season one.

1:46:39 They had to wrap it. Up at the end because they don't know if they're coming back for a second season and I don't think they will want to leave us on a cliffhanger. Not like that. Yeah. And and for me this, this. To be honest with you, this show is written in a way where I don't think it should be more than one season, to be honest with you, you know, I mean, unless we actually do a spinoff and then it's about. Other people in New York. Or if they're going to tie it back to one of the other shows. Because we do know. That because this is a, this is not like opening up and we're heading, this is we have a mission, this is a set.

1:47:22 Mission but we don't know what the. End of that mission is going to be well. No, we do. The set mission right now is to get hurt. I'm just saying. So we don't know. How this mission is going to end? And if that's going to lead into one of the other shows? I know, but when I'm just to just is watching and looking at other shows. When you start with a mission and you're starting more closedminded, it is hard to then open it up for additional years. Those shows don't tend to work as well when you have it open and then you have missions and quests within and you can expand on that. So I would have thought that too, but I would have applied that to the Daryl Dixon show as well. But as we can see from the news we're getting, they're already filming in Season 2 of that show. I can see that though, for Daryl, because he really did not have a, he doesn't have a strict mission. He's off.

1:48:28 He's just. We don't even know why he's in France, like we don't know how he gets there. No, we don't. And we're going to find out. But once he gets over there, he didn't encounter other places like his place. And that stems off other stories with other people. And then Darrell's in the story and then we build and love other characters in a different area. Here we're strictly like we literally in episode. When we went from, we went in that bar, we thought we going to get Michelle in this story, Michelle dies. Then we we're on a boat to Manhattan. We are in Manhattan. If you mean we get an old lady, it's like we're moving. So I can see this not going.

1:49:12 If they do push it to two, they shouldn't go past two. Limited series like. Like world beyond what? It should be. I mean it. And that's a good and I'm not saying it's about that's a good thing you know for for them like it's limited and then the next we can get somebody else who has a limited like they often doing something. But Darrell, I can see being time. Because he's going to encounter people and it has. He really he's he's he's off. Who is he looking for? What is he doing? We don't even know. We don't even know how he ended up in Paris. All we. Know is he was on a capsized boat. Yeah, and he walking and the trailer, he just walking and walking. I saw that trailer, I said.

1:49:55 If they show us a whole bunch of Daryl Dixon walking, I have an issue. They. Do and he walking. And we're walking And we're walking and we're walking. Right. So I can see, you know, he encounter one group and help them and then that turns into three other people joining him, almost like the fear, like it was one family. And then we got these other people coming along and they encounter things and now we're the Morgan show. Okay. I got it. Okay. Yes, I can see that being more time. OK, Ricky Marshawn, that shouldn't be more than one, no? They just need to find each other and they need to go back home to the goddamn children.

1:50:40 That's and that's it. And that's how that should end. So that should be like about 10 episodes by the time that show come out. Judas, there's gonna be a time jump. Judy's gonna be 21. See, that's the thing I'm trying to see. That's why I'm trying to figure out because OK, so as far as the timelines with the shows. One of the things that they said about Fear The Walking Dead and the current season is that they did A7 year time jump to align it with The Walking Dead timeline. Okay. So then if if if you're doing that, why take this show and do another 5-6 year time jump? Like what's the purpose And then like I said. So if you're doing a 5-6 year time jump for Maggie and Megan, where in the timeline does Darrell's story take place? Where in the timeline will Rick and Michonne's story take place? Like, are these story like, like I said, when Maggie goes to find Megan, is Darrell back home?

1:51:42 Is Darrell gone? Have Rick and Michonne returned? Are they still out missing like? And if that's the case, like you said, that Judah's going to be her, Judah going to be 20? And you going to have these kids from this deleted scene from The Walking Dead show up. And so yeah, Julie's going to have her own child and husband. Like, who are you guys? Yeah, I guess we'll figure that out once we get more details about it. That's the other interesting thing, because I don't know if you've heard. San Diego Comic Con is next month.

1:52:24 And you know, we had thought that okay, they'll probably have Walking Dead people there to like, promote these shows. But what we're finding out is because of the writers strike and because of a possible actor strike that I believe may go into effect tomorrow. A lot of the big names are not going to San Diego Comic Con. Marvel is not going to have a presence there. I think AM C is not going to have a presence. There is like a lot of these big names are not going to be there. So I don't know when we'll get any more Rick and Michonne content as far as like a teaser like. Literally, the Daryl Dixon show is starting soon and we're just getting a first trailer, a teaser trailer, like a few days ago.

1:53:17 So I don't know, I guess what we'll just have to wait and try to figure out some more things as far as how this fits in the timeline. But for for this episode, I think it would had a very strong start. You know, we do get to see these characters and we kind of get to see how they've changed. Over the last few years, since the last time we saw them, you know, in their timeline and we get these other characters that are interesting. But like I said, Pearly Armstrong, not my favorite, probably will not be my favorite. I probably will not like his character. And then the Crow hat is the other main character that we've seen so far and he does look like he's going to be a problem, so. But did did we forget anything?

1:54:09 I think we got the most of it. Oh, I was going to say that first thing with Maggie, where she's sitting on the shore looking through the binoculars at Manhattan and then she gets she gets attacked by Walker and she turns around and beats it. I was like, they make that scene very reminiscent of Negan beating Glenn and Abraham. Was I the only person who who felt like that, like the way she was kind of bashing that Walker's hand? My thought is if he walks under the bridge to get her and she start beating the hell out of him, I ain't nobody. Hear that, the other?

1:54:49 Walker, she was hiding from not hear that, especially she. And that's what I was thinking about. Yeah, that's what I was thinking about. Like, OK, she made a lot of noise and then she's struggling. Like, has she not killed the walk in the wild? What is going on? I know she's she's, she's in that head space. She's worried about her son and she probably is just trying to figure out how, you know, especially you just sat on the bank, you're looking with the binoculars and you see these thousands of walkers. I know she was probably thinking, how the hell am I going to save my son? But then my question is, she looked but then you noticed when they got over there on the boat with no walkers. But it was night. And that's that's why I was saying whatever they're doing in that building that's causing the smoke, I think they're luring walkers there. And then of course, like I said, the that truck that was going by with the music, they were luring, they were, you know, hurting the walkers.

1:55:45 So I don't know if maybe they keep the walkers close to the home base, whatever the home base is, whoever it is that's doing this. During the night time to keep people from getting to them and then they just kind of let them disperse again. During the day. I I don't know. We we really don't know much about what else is going on in Manhattan. I'm pretty sure the Croat is not the only person who is still alive and you know operating in Manhattan. I'm sure we're going to come across some other people. Something tells me the little old lady is not part of his group. So. We don't know exactly what's going on there, but yeah, that was kind of strange that there was nobody there.

1:56:27 But I think for her, seeing all of those walkers in the daytime and your son has just been taken and you don't know how you're going to get him back. I think maybe at that point she just wasn't paying attention. She was more emotional, and that Walker kind of snuck up on her and she just, she was just like, OK, you know what? Oh, here's the other thing. So after you knock out Armstrong with his gun and you and Megan leave, why do you throw the gun down? I didn't. Understand why would. You do that and she might watch watch one action movie. No, she did not now. I understand that one to make a whole. On the farm.

1:57:10 But those that machine gun might come in handy, especially if you try to rescue your son from a deranged person. Who probably has henchmen, because, I mean, they have to have a lot of people. Well, maybe not a lot of people, but I think it's interesting that they, from the way that she described how they raided her, it sounded more like reapers than it did the sanctuary. The sanctuary didn't do. They didn't do that sneaky shit at night. You know, scale the walls and come in and take and take y'all out while y'all sleep. No. One thing about Megan in the sanctuary, they were very out and open about what they were doing.

1:57:55 They didn't do no sneaky stuff. And that's the other thing we said about Megan doesn't lie. He doesn't. He doesn't do that kind of manipulation to where he's going to tell you one thing to do another. No, Megan's going to be straight up to your face and tell you what the hell he's doing. Tell you why he's doing it. The way that she described how the crow act snuck in and got the grain and everything sounded more like Reaper shit to me, because that's what the reapers did. Maybe it came with Reapers and was with them for a little bit thought. I mean could be. But yes, more. Yeah, I have.

1:58:35 Any final? Thoughts. Don't find out more I'm sure as time goes on. Yes, especially with only six up. So they better give us some good actions like don't, don't just leave it random. Right. OK. Well, for this episode, that's it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. At Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on our major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.