The Walking Dead: Dead City S1E3 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #250

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Casey and Michelle, and we are trying for the second time to discuss The Walking Dead. Dead City Episode 3. And I say that because we recorded this episode last week or we thought we recorded this episode last week. We were talking, we were having a good time. We got about an hour and 30 minutes in and I realized that the camera was not recording, that the nothing was recording, and then when I stopped it to check to see how far the recording got. Had only gotten 14 minutes. I don't know what happened. I don't know if I accidentally hit something, if my cat walked across the keyboard, I don't know. But yeah, we had to.

1:14 I had to get my brain right. So here we are once again, episode three of The Dead City. And I'm going to start this one off the same way I started off the last time because I'm a gone ahead and let Casey get what she got to say out the way because. Watching the beginning of this episode, this is all I heard in my head. For those of Y'all who are watching, you see it as Casey's screen name. Go ahead and say it Casey, you. Need me the whooping? Give me the full-fledged whooping. Because how you leave the safety and sanctity of Hilltop. What we already know, it was only one protected at the gate.

1:56 You got my real real smooth. See. No, you got to let me have my full rant on that one. And you will, and you will. But nonetheless, you still stole a bike. Use that bike clearly on one tank of gas, and got all the way to what? Is it the Hut's Yard from wherever, excuse me, New Jersey? From wherever it is that the new Hilltop is? And found the cooler. Got her ass in a cooler and was able to levitate and and balance herself with a little stick to paddle lacrosse with. No walkers to get to the other side to get to the eye. And you can't forget to mention that she even left long time ago Negan when he turned around.

2:42 And walked off. God damn bear. What he say. Whole time you've been stuck to my ass like blue. I turned my back for two seconds. You took the fuck off. You need a fucking whooping. Or at least a bill tied around the neck. I had, I just had so many questions about that because one, we already know from what we've seen of the first part of the final season of Fear The Walking Dead that I don't, I don't know where the disconnect is, but we already know that they are not casting these kid actors to portray accurate ages. I don't even know how old Jenny is supposed to be. What is that?

3:27 From what we know about her, she was with her father at a farm. Dad left to go scavenging. She went to go find him, found his body, and she's been mute ever since. And sticking to Megan like glue. My question is, did your dad teach you how to travel across the state or? From state to state. Because again, we still don't really know where the new Hilltop is located. But the fact that you just got on a bike and all of a sudden found yourself on the New Jersey shore? No map, like you, said Casey. Probably no gas.

4:11 What did she even take food from? From Hilltop? Did she take that little piece of bread that what's her name left off? And then how do you have the wherewithal to know the damn cooler going floor? I would have thought of that shit. I wouldn't either. I'm sorry, the. Cooler going float and I'm gonna make it across. Well, well, clearly we can't get in the cooler and float in the igloo cooler. She she knew she could, I guess. Our big ass would be right at the bottom of that, but. But the other thing I was thinking of was when Megan and Maggie went across the river in a boat. In an actual boat. There were bodies floating in the river. What please. And even with the not just in the river the whole episode she didn't made it to Manhattan.

5:02 She's going through the streets of Manhattan. You don't see now am Walker chasing her. You don't see like she's able to even I guess you can kind of say evade the walkers. She gets away from one that almost has her leg and nobody is. Coming after her? No. Like does she have like zombie repel on her? I I just have so many. You have to keep in mind that especially with her not talking, she is super quiet. Like benefit of the doubt, she's quiet so she's able to move and maneuver through walkers because.

5:43 Apparently she walks on fucking air. Because I don't. So, so, so that's all I need is to be quiet and I can survive. It's working for this child I I just flipping. I just don't I I don't understand it. Has she? Have we even seen her kill? A Walker? No, no. Remember even the one Negan killed, The one with the bag? The. One in the flashback. So maybe she still have her Apple phone and Neegan has an Apple tag on she can't find it. Because that's the other question I had. Just like I'm just saying you got a tracker on them, I. Was like, so you just all of a sudden like this, this grown ass man who obviously knows his way around a Walker or two, tells you to go to this place. Stay put, be safe, stay safe so I can go do what I need to go do.

6:42 And you leave to go find him like he not a whole grown ass man who can take care of himself. Like what are you going to do? You won't even open your mouth to save yourself. So does that say she cares about him and she wants to make sure he's safe or she knows he I don't know which one he? Is. I'm asking which one is it because you ain't. She doesn't say anything. I I'm going to. I'm going to say it's it's probably that she cares about like this is a. Guy that has been. Taking care of her, you know, kind of if, I mean if you look at that flashback Rd. Megan is in full daddy mode. He is in full daddy mode and you know we we get a little bit more back story about him and Annie and what happened with them.

7:26 So we know that I guess in a way she's kind of like a substitute for the child that he is no longer around but. It's just like, I understand he's important to you, but what are you going to do in Manhattan? Unless, unless she she knows how to get there because she's from there now. If that's the case, okay maybe, But also if you're from Manhattan, then you probably know what the fuck they did to Manhattan, but I don't think so because of you think. So she looks like she has to be maybe around, I would say probably 13-14.

8:11 Fourteen, maybe. When Megan was talking to Tomasso and Amaya and he was, you know, given the story about him, but without saying it was him, he said about 12 to 15 years back, this guy came on the scene down South, So that's kind of. Cementing the time frame for us somewhere between 12 and 15 years. Of course, they don't know exactly how long, because nobody is exactly keeping up with the calendar at this point. But we know that that's kind of where things are, you know, about 15 years. So that does put Herschel right around maybe thirteenish 12 at the youngest, because by the time all this stuff happened with Glenn.

9:01 Maggie was pregnant and they have been doing this for maybe close to three years because Judith was just under two years old at the time. So that can that at least gives us a little bit of you know, a time frame to work with. But if that's the case Jenny probably wasn't even alive when Manhattan fell and. I don't think she's from. I don't think she's from there. I just think this child is magical, you know? She knows how to read maps and stuff, and she. Didn't have a map to read, she. Knows. How to she know how to read the stars, I don't know. Because what's the likelihood?

9:45 I mean, even with even with Manhattan being shut down, that island is still very big. I know, because. When when we went to New York to visit like it, we did a lot of fucking walking. Like, right. And subway riding. So where he was and how to find? Them is right. Right. Or at least you like. You end up right there in the vicinity. Or at least enough in an area where one of their people. You know, she dropped her little thing and so OK, I get you followed the person who has your thing because you want your thing back.

10:27 Maybe not necessarily knowing that they would lead you to Negan, so to say, but. I don't know. That whole thing is just weird. It And and also, well, OK, so I was going to say yeah. Wait, hold on before you go. And then the fact that the person who found the thing, this thing ain't dirty. It's not. Looking like it's been sitting on the ground for you know the since the palms went off and they're all rusty and dusty and you see a brand new, damn near brand new toy on the ground you don't look around and be like. Okay. So let's let's talk about her real quick, because in that scene Jenny had just, she was, she was running away from some walkers, you know, she tried to go One Direction.

11:13 There were a few walkers, she tried to go another direction. She saw some Walker. She was walking backwards and she tripped over the arm of another Walker up under a garbage can and that's how she dropped the Dino. She went off to the side and she's kind of looking. Here come this chick with her walking stick. Clank. Clank. I was like, what's that noise, Clank? Fuck. Do you think these walkers have been turning at the least little bit? And you just walking down the street, Clank, Clank. I was like, wait, I'm so like, don't get me wrong, I like the show, but I have so many questions about some of the stuff that they're doing. Is it just that people are getting careless now? You almost 20 years down the line, you just like, whatever, fuck it, if they come after me, I'm just going to kill them. Is that where we are now?

12:15 No, I I I agree with you. I like the show, but there are little pieces that they're leaving out. And I know they want us to make the connections, but some connections don't make quite sense in the world that we live in. But I know they're trying to get to their point of the story and they only have so many episodes. But I mean, this girl is like a superhero, right? So so here's my thing. If you have the story you're trying to tell, stop giving us six episodes, fucking shows. Give us, give us a few more episodes, 8 episodes. Don't. Don't try to rush the story.

12:57 Now we'll say this, I do kind of like the pacing of this show because they're not dragging things out. But there are some points that I feel like you do kind of sort of need to like maybe. Take a little bit more. Time make some time in and and then we're going to get to it. But also decisions that some of these characters are making. I don't agree that they will make. If we were in the other Walking Dead series, they would have made those. I will tell you this, probably Armstrong would have been dead by now if if. He would have in this world you this is not. It's not. It's not work.

13:38 It's not working. He wouldn't have lasted 2 episodes. First of all, why do you why are you sitting around the whole episode frowning like a fucking toddler about to have a tantrum? Because you can't get the person you want to get. But even if you go back to the beginning, not the beginning, But when he first got to Manhattan and he went to the apartment kicking the fucking door in and just loud. In the apartment building that's going to have, you know what I'm saying? It doesn't make sense. But then also some of the things these walkers are doing ain't not not making sense. But OK, we'll leave that for another let's. Go ahead, let's go ahead and go with that.

14:21 Let's go ahead. For me, when he kicks the door in, how do walkers know that's where he was? That's true, because it took a minute for a Walker to come, so they would have had to go to each door. So I'm going to go to a door. It looks open. Well, remember, I said. Have. No eye at. That did you? Did you remember? You were fucked down this hard before and that door had a hole? That's what I said when we watched that episode. I was like, this makes no sense, that unless he was in there making noise, which he wasn't, he was looking at his brother and putting a blanket over him. None of those things require you to make noise, but all of a sudden walkers are in it, like, oh.

15:04 Hey, there's a hole in this door where it wasn't before. Hey, there might be something in that now. I don't know. It could have been something different. They could have smelled him. Who knows how long it's been since he's taking a bath. He's been running through the streets chasing after Megan, doing this, doing that. So there could be a sense of body odor that they're like, oh, this is something different, something that might alert them to the fact that somebody is living. You know, smell you. Right. Thanks, Hannika. Where we get that from? That's a very Oh, that's true. That's true. Sorry, look, look, because we all. Like, yeah, that's what we're like, OK? Yeah, you're right.

15:48 Yeah. That's why you can smear, you can smear their blood. Too long. Y'all start. Look, look, that's that's what they're doing. We've been doing this for too long. We just go get last. We just don't forget how this works. But that's not how any of this works. It's not. But Pearly Armstrong, like I said, first, you're sitting there with a look stuck on your face like you're about to have a top, a tantrum, Okay. And I understand you're in the situation you didn't want to be in. You're in this arena. You know, with the Crow at which we're going to get to the crow at in a minute, because I have a lot of things to say about him.

16:29 And they're not necessarily all bad in a sense, but you're in. You find yourself in this arena, you're handcuffed. But this guy who has taken you hostage, he comes in and he's showing you what he has done with this place. Oh, he walks in. And he was like, oh, it's a little chilly in here, isn't it? And then he makes a show of going to turn the heater on. So almost 20 years into a zombie apocalypse, the crow at is in an arena that has electricity working, A/C working. He he's putting hot beef Stew on the table. They have one.

17:14 Where do I sign up? I mean, it's kind of like what we've been saying about. Megan with the sanctuary When? You stand. Out on like if I have to choose between being on the streets of Manhattan with what is out there and being inside the the arena. I'm a person of comfort. Give me my creature comforts. Is there a bed? Can I? I mean, you got electricity. Is there a TV in there? DVD player? Some old DVD's? Yeah, I'm sitting my ass inside because I'm not going out there. Have you seen whatever it's? Like Manhattan probably has 6 million dead walking around.

17:55 Absolutely not. And. You have to keep in mind, most likely he fashioned the arena after the sanctuary. Absolutely. Like I. Said. Yeah, I can agree. Because I have a lot to say about, yeah. You know, the same general. Except everybody ain't walking around talking about I am I am Croat. No, nobody. But in the same vein, he probably is the same philosophy series that Negan started. It's very obvious that the Croat has a hero worship thing of Megan going on, which is so weird because Megan thinks that the Croat wants to kill him.

18:45 For what he did to him, as far as like casting him out, shooting his ear off, trying to kill him. But if you look around, even the things that the Croat is saying, it's like he's mimicking himself off of Megan, Which is very interesting for the show because, you know, we've, we've been talking a lot about Megan and how he's been trying to reform himself, trying to change himself from the person he used to be. So it's very odd in this episode to see somebody else using his same words, his same philosophy, like literally. It's almost like Negan wrote it down and the Croat studied it word for word, you know?

19:31 But it's but listening to it come out of the Croat mouth, yes, it just seems a little more touched than Negan. Did you know, and I mean Megan has been hinting that the Croat is not wrapped too tight in the brain. He's been hinting that, and even with this episode, we see it with the type of things that he does, As far as you know, his people get high off the methane that's coming from the bodies, the the ring that was left in the arena. Apparently there was going to be a big MMA fight when everything went to shit and the MMA cage is still there.

20:14 And he holds games, which, yeah, it's like listening to that same philosophy come out of his mouth. I feel like, in a way, it also is supposed to illustrate to the audience just how different Megan is now from the person he was back then. Because even when he was saying it back then. I never took him for crazy, but I was like, oh, he's really believing all this bullshit that he's feeding to everybody. And we realized down the road now it really wasn't bullshit for him. He really thought that he was saving people and in a sense he was, he was just going about to be completely wrong way or it got to the point where. The God complex.

21:02 Stuck. But he it's just that he that was a character. He knew he had to play and he stuck with the character. Because you can't falter from the character, you falter from the character, then you don't have a rise up and somebody else will take over, just like he took took over from someone else. Once you get to the point where you have people in a place that they believe this, you got to keep that up and everyone has to keep it up. Right. I mean just it's it's not too much different from Ezekiel with the the Kingdom, right? Except, you know, of course Ezekiel. I don't feel like Ezekiel ever let the whole King title get to his head.

21:42 Like every time we saw him kind of relishing in that. It was all part of the act. Yeah. And he, he had a character. He had a character too. I mean, come on now, because you were in the middle of auditorium stage. Right. Sorry, that was. On a chain that was one of the best character in it. I mean it is, but that's that. But you had to keep that front up. You got to keep that front up so people don't come and try to take over your areas for your people. Right, right. But I. And you walked around with that confidence because the way he told his story about when beforehand he didn't seem like a man who was full of confidence. So he lived in he he walked into his character, Negan walked into his character and the court, what is his name? He's doing the same thing, but he, he had a trauma full, you know, experience though.

22:41 So going back, we're going to come back to the court because like I said, I had. I have things to to say about him. Let's go back to my least favorite character of this show so far. Let's go back to Pearly, OK? Because like I said, he's there. He's held captive by the Croat and the Croat is basically giving his sales pitch. As far as look, I just need to know why you're here and who you came with. He was like, look, this is what I'm done. This is what I've built and he talks to Pearly about. His old profession, he says. I used to be a scientist before all of this. And when I came to this place, I was wondering, you know, I asked the question, what is the most abundant natural resource here? Death.

23:27 And so basically he figured out a way to make all of those bodies count. And he, you know, we saw this. He's been putting bodies into, like the different tanks. And we were like, what kind of weird governor shit is this on? No, the governor was nowhere near this creative. This dude is using the bodies that are in the city that are in the sewers, and he's using them to create the gas that powers the whole arena. You know, basically as the bodies are breaking down with them being in in a compressed space. And I actually wrote down his full description and I can't find what I did with it, but he oh, here it is Wallow. So he says, what is the most abundant natural resource on this island?

24:21 Death. The sewers are full of it and as the bodies break down they produce methane and because the intermolecular forces are weak. The gas can be pressurized into a liquid fuel at regular temperatures. This dude is powering everything in this arena from the dead bodies. That was like, if he wasn't batshit crazy, do you know what he could have done for the world? Like all of our people, they could have enhanced. Here's the other thing about all of. Humanity and the way that you act when you when you're in this type of apocalypse situation.

25:02 Instead of sitting there trying to figure out OK, how can we pull our smarts, our resources, our experiences and use it to make the world better. Y'all are instead of fighting for who's going to control this then other y'all have the whole fucking planet to yourselves now. There is no reason to be fight like. Over nothing. Right. Because we can pull together all of our resources because everyone has some type of skill and we can use that. What is it? Megan says. And the crow at even says it here.

25:43 People are resource. That's the way you are supposed to use people as a resource. It didn't have to just be Alexandria with the walls and the solar panels. If someone had come up to them and they're like, hey, we also want to live, great, but we don't want to encroach on your space. Can you teach us how to do this? But ain't that what Georgie was supposed to be fucking doing? Yes, We ain't even going to talk. We we're not. What that was Georgie was supposed to be doing And then in a way Commonwealth tried to do that when you're trying to figure out what people do and what they what they did in the past life and but y'all was crazy as fuck, so. Because y'all were too busy trying to take it back to a broken system.

26:26 Right. I couldn't elite it right to be your lead at the top. And have they just, you know, figured out what people like and and or or could do? And then from there, let's pull that around. Let's send you our sister communities and teach them how to do this so we can have this and. But John Y'all want to hoard it all to yourselves and be assholes and just. Right. And and you know, when you think about it, when they first started doing the show, when we first started watching the episodes, my question was, who the hell wants to rule over a city full of the dead? Because my thing is, as easily as Megan and Maggie and even Jenny got onto the island, it has to be a way for them to get off.

27:18 You know what I'm saying? We see in the episode they have been using speakers from the arena to lure the walkers to the arena. They have a little parade card going around playing music that's that's hurting the walkers. So you can do that and get off the island. Why would you want to stay there? And then once he explained what he has done, I was like, oh. That makes so much sense, because right now that really does make you the most important man. Period. Yeah, but with all of that you have a one up. No, you got a 10 up with everybody else.

27:59 But you going to go and take other people resources because you have, you have I'm sorry, you have everything you need and if you this smart y'all could be doing some farming on these fucking rooftops and stuff and. You know irrigation system, you could have this. But I guess part of the issue with that is the building in such bad shape because of the bombing. Because if you look, even when when Jenny gets on the island and you see the structures, most of the tops of those structures are damaged. There are a lot of bodies in those buildings. I mean we. Had but some buildings he was on top of, you know, with his little ziplining system.

28:43 I don't think that's his. Zip line. I'm thinking the tribes people put that together. And then he kind of took over the area and then they planning inside the building, you can make it work. Yeah. You made. If you want to. Power work, yeah, it may fight and work. I was watching the the episode insider at the end and the showrunner describes it as like. The Croat kind of sees Megan not necessarily as a father figure, but it does seem like he has that kind of attitude. Like, oh dad, look at what I did. And I really do feel like that. Like, like I said, it feels like he kind of has a hero worship thing with Megan and I don't know, maybe Megan casting him out and trying to kill him instead of it making him upset and wanting to get revenge.

29:39 It's one of those things where he's like, I'm going to show him I I can do it and I can do it better. I'm going to prove to him that we can make a true sanctuary. Because if if he knows enough about Herschel and Maggie to know about Megan, you know what Megan has done. And the fact that, oh, he lived amongst your mother's people, that would have been after the the Croat left. So obviously he's been keeping tags on Negan, so it's it's not like he could he probably couldn't find Negan and kill him at any particular time. Especially if Negan is not thinking about the fact that the Crow Act might be out there just waiting to kill him. It's been 1215 years, but it.

30:22 But you have to keep in mind not even thinking about crows. They get the main so many enemies over the fucking years. This is true. And then if you think about it with with all of his people, I am Negan, you know, traveling far and wide, I'm sure people all over you know it will at least within the. Few. State radios, I know, but that's. I mean, come on, keep in mind, even 15 odd years later, Rick Grimes name still rolling around. They know about wars that have happened. They. May not know names, but they know they. Had no names, but they know that there was a war. So not even just with the with the Savior, there was a war with the.

31:13 With the whispers, whispers. So these wars are the word of the war is being spread around, And who are the leaders of this war? Because remember, Maggie's the widow. You know, everybody has a pseudonym of of what people call them, the the the widow, the king, the what was Rick the sheriff, you know, all of these things, so. Swammers are. Traveling. And so it's like you had Megan had hundreds of followers, hundreds. And the same way, like Dwight and Sherry have left and move on. I'm sure there are other people that left and was like this ain't the life of me.

31:58 But so that name carries. And I'm sure you know, even with Crowe at leaving, you know, even though you know Megan shot him in the head, but you know even still that would have even if he would have left voluntarily. There's something from that that you took from it and you like, yeah, let me see what I can do. So being Negan. Oh, please. And. And at this time, they know about The Circle and bashing somebody's head in. You know, how many times have we heard that with not knowing who it was. But you know, us as viewers, we know that was Megan. But you know, people hear stories because he'll even remember, probably even said that there's a story that he did this.

32:41 And you know, in the Circle, how many, how long ago was that? You know what I mean? So. Yeah. So anyway, so the Crow ad is telling Pearly about all of this, and he's trying to figure out if Pearly is, you know, a threat or not. He's like, what are you doing here? What are you here for? Who did you bring with you? And of course, Hurley, sitting there handcuffed to the balcony, still with his frown looking like he's about to throw a tantrum. And the Crow ad is. Explaining all of this stuff and about how they have this thing working and how, you know, systems are in place to make sure that everybody stays safe and it's that and the other. And as he's cutting into his beef Stew, he finds a maggot.

33:25 Now the guy who was sitting over to the side, who has been, you know, who, who came in and set the place and made sure everything was right, which, OK, sidebar real quick. Why is it that whenever civilization starts over. We feel the need to put people in servant positions. Like, what is that? Okay? That's one sidebar. And the fact that it was, you know, I'm just glad it wasn't a black person, but it was an Asian person, so I'm equally offended. But that's a whole thing. But he couldn't have a white white servant. That's a whole other thing. So he basically takes out his anger about this. On that guy, he's like, why would you serve me rotting me?

34:08 You know, if if you don't take care of the meat and you ingest it, it's you know, it'll it'll decay in your body and then it'll cause you to be sick. So he has this key to the handcuffs that Pearly has and he's been kind of like teasing this key. He gets up to go to this guy and he picks up the key and he makes the guy swallow the key. Now I'm sitting here looking like, why the fuck would you do that? And then I realized, what's the dude swallow the cows? Like, oh, your ass about to die. That's why you take the meat, right? So the Croat kills him and he throws his body over and Pearly is just still sitting there looking like, what the fuck is going like? Why would you do that?

34:49 And the Croat just looks at him like, And I was like, where is this about to go? Because like. Carla wasn't the one that tried to, well, that tried to give you bad meat. I don't know if it was on purpose or whatever, because when he asked, oh dude, he was like, did you check the meat? So why would you serve me bad meat? And the guy was about to say, well, actually it was. So I think somebody else, man, I I don't know, I'm not even about to. Get too deep into that. I just think even if it wasn't the worm, he would have found another reason to kill this man. Because what would be the point of just having a dangling the key around talk to you. I'm no because some kind of way you wanted him to get in this ring and fight for.

35:35 It, right? I thought that too. Like it, you know? What I mean? He had the key ready, so you already knew that it was going to be him anyway. It was. Going to be a reason that it. Would, it happened, opened up his house? Broly could have opened up his mouth and said, oh, I just came to Manhattan to see if my brother was still alive. I mean, he could have easily. We we've been talking about this with you could have easily given like a small lie, just like the people at the bar Y'all gave yourselves away because of the way you acted and the way you responded. Probably could have just said, I just came to see if my brother was still alive. He had the he had the envelope, which, you know.

36:17 The Croat finds later on it has a New York address on it. So at least he wasn't lying and he could have said yeah, I went to go find my brother blah blah blah the you know, he could have. But like he said, I don't think that was the Croats MO. He really wanted to see what type of person Hurley was because if you look around it looks like he collects people, which is the same thing that Negan did. He wanted to see what kind of metal you had, what what you were made of, and whether or not you would be an asset to his crew. Because, again, this is a zombie apocalypse.

36:59 We have a C we have heat, we have fresh meat. Why would we share this with you if you're not going to contribute? So I get that. I get it. But the way he. Everybody had to go through the gauntlet. I don't think so. I don't. Maybe not the people who were there with him at the beginning, I don't know. But I mean, you have to. I guess it depends on if he has to break you or not. So if you're the type of person that looks like he you, you know that you're a fighter and you may need to be broken down. You see what I'm saying? If I'm I'm walking into Manhattan and I just need some help, I don't think I will have to do it. To prove myself.

37:47 Yeah, because I'm like, hey, I just need some shelter. Help me. But I don't. He also doesn't look like the. Type of person. Who's going to give it to you for free? No, no, I mean, I'm going to do something, you know, I'm going to get bodies and throw them in the, you know, the tank and stuff, so. But the way that he, I guess, proves. Curly's medal is, he takes him downstairs where the arena is and it's so weird to see all of his people, like chanting. Like this is how people act when they go to a real MMA. You know, they're sitting there cheering and whatever, like, what are they about to do?

38:28 He puts Curly in the cage and there is a pole in the middle and he, you know, he handcuffs him around that pole so he can't move. Then the dude that he just made swallow the key and threw over the balcony. He puts his Walker in the cage with Pearly. So Pearly has to fight. And I was like, okay, I don't know how this is going to work because Pearly is. He's still sitting there frowning mad and I'm like, dude, just just wipe, wipe your face blank and just do what you need to do. So Pearly uses the handcuffs when the guy comes back towards him and he has him up against the pole. He uses the handcuffs to wrap around his neck and he decapitates him and then he looks at the crow at like, OK let me out and the crow at is looking at him like, but is that all you got to do?

39:27 I was looking at the look at his face he was like he looks at him and. You thought it was going to be that easy? Right, right. So then I think there were some people throwing like bottles and stuff at Pearly because I guess they wanted the Walker to win. I don't know. Or or no. You know how always in the fight well that was that was over quick like you ain't. Yeah, you be mad you like they get their money was worth. Like they they know money's worth. Money. And then I forgot to mention the fact that before he threw Pearly in there, he made him inhale some of the methane gas so that he was a little bit high, low, whatever you want to call it.

40:08 Things slowed down a little bit for him, but Pearly takes one of the broken bottles and he cuts into Dude's stomach and then starts digging for the key. I was like, okay, you know what? I will say this for Dead City. They are trying to up the ante on the grossness in The Walking Dead universe because there have been several times during this series and we're only three episodes in where I've had to watch and be like, oh with my face covered, looking through my fingers. Like, is this over yet? Because that's disgusting. What you think we will be used to considering we saw Rick.

40:50 Pack open a Walker and put his guts all over him. Oh, this should be easy. Several. Times. Several times you would think this would be easier, but no, this was just gross. And I think it it maybe it was the whole thing of you having to go in the man's stomach. Because I'm sorry, they did that once before with Darrell when he was trying, when he took apart that Walker to see if that Walker had Sophia in his stomach or, you know, humorous. That again. But we've had a lot of gross walkers. Remember the Will Walker? We. Have a. Lot of gross ones we have.

41:32 So you would think I would be used to this by now, but no, it's still gross even though you're the ones that had the radiation with all the puss in the, you know we just they try to be gory and nasty, just gross. But Pearly has to go into this thing's stomach to get the key to get himself out. But the interesting thing about it was after he killed that first Walker and he gets free, they put more walkers in the cage with him. So he goes over to the side and he tries to take his boot off and he thinks better of it and switches to the other boot and takes the other boot off and starts, you know.

42:17 Mollywapping the the walkers. Which is cool, but at this point the crow ad is very observant and so he has paid attention to the fact that oh what that first boot off what's in there? And I don't know if he thought maybe it was a weapon or something like that, which it could be. I mean, think about Maggie's boots and what she stores in them. So it could have been a weapon, it could have been something else. But all the Croat does is he finds the letter that Hurley's brother wrote to him, and then he starts reading the letter out loud. And this is where we find out that Mister High and Mighty Mr. Righteous and always so righteous with folks because you had a brother that was addicted to drugs. And y'all your whole family abandoned him. Like, abandoned him to the point where he was like, I don't know why it took me so long to realize that you all had changed your phone numbers.

43:30 I was like, like, did he kill somebody while he was on the drugs? Obviously not, because he was free. So you just so you just disown your brother. Because he was a. Because he was a junkie and the way that he reacted. We don't know the the. Yeah, because it could be some other stuff that happened, yeah. I mean, I get that, but just the way that he reacted when the crow was reading that letter, I was like, yeah, you got some heavy guilt. Something is going on. Like your brother was in that apartment by himself for a reason.

44:11 And guilt that, you know, you didn't get to say what you needed to say at the end, you know, because they probably did it so he could go get help and not always depend like, oh, I'm going to get better this time and then for a second and then he steals something out the house and make promises and then they send them back. So they sometimes you have to make a clear cut. So they can get better, but it was at the wrong time, You know, you don't ever think the world's going to end, too at the same time. So you don't think that. Yeah, you're thinking, okay, they're going, yeah, you're going to get some help. And then we will, you know, get him back. Yeah. Yeah. But the interesting thing about this whole exchange is because Pearly doesn't want to listen to the rest of the letter.

44:55 He blurts out to the crow act. He was like, it's just me, I'm here by myself. I'm looking for someone. I had two partners, They're both dead. And the crow act very like, very sensibly says who is worth following here, Like who is so important, who is so deadly, who is so whatever, that you will follow them to this cesspool of death. And Pearly says his name is me. And the Croats face is like, oh, Daddy's here. I was just like, because he looked a little too happy about the fact that me was there. Not necessarily happy.

45:39 Like, oh, I'm about to kill him. It was, oh, I'm about to show him what I did. I'm about to show him all of this. There was elation, right? So. We don't leave. We don't leave the crow at because we got to go talk about Maggie and Megan and the tribes people and all the shit that's going down with them. I know, I know. First of all. I was going to say, are you going to say it or am I going to say it? Because Jenny ain't the only one who needed women right now. I feel like everybody's. Acting bad like everybody but.

46:21 The number one acting bad was fucking Luther, and at the end of the day, Luther kind of got what he deserved because you shouldn't have been a Dick. This was just let the man find out. Get. Some fucking beeswax for his hand, like just little. Have it. Just just give him a little bit. Give him a little bit. Now I will say this. And after we see what happens at the end with Luther, I feel like he was acting that way because he already knew about the poster. And then of course, listening to Megan and Megan give their own kind of accounts about this big shit. I just had a revelation.

47:02 Oh. Where do you get the fucking poster from? Remember, he took their stuff. Remember in the beginning when they first found Maggie and Negan? They Oh yeah, he got it out of Maggie's bag. Or out of Negan's because I don't remember Negan what and he. Has his own wanted poster. Yes. Remember the first episode? He was like, for a wanted man. I look damn good. I'm going to keep. I thought he was just. I thought he was just looking. At Maggie's? No, he he said he was going to keep that poster because he looked good in it. OK, so either way Luther stole it from from them. Yeah. So he So that makes sense in hindsight. But of course before that it's kind of like, why are you being a Dick about it.

47:45 But I will say this too, even though he knew about Megan or suspected, especially once Megan starts talking about the, you know, the story about the guy who went South. And then when Maggie was like, yeah, whatever it was that they suggested, she was like, yeah, that's what he would do. He and the Croat go way back. And Luther was like, oh, so their friend, she was like were. He tried to kill him. He shot his ear off. So you know, she was at least putting that out there. Like, no, he's not with this dude now. But I would say this too. Maggie was not helping the situation because Amaya and Tomasso are trying to help. And I get that for for whatever reasons. Right now, I think for Amaya it's about revenge, because they came into their place and killed their people. And she's pissed, rightly so.

48:38 Luther is the one that's like, we're going to help. Y'all we're not doing this shit. We did not really voted about it. And then when he tells Maggie, he was like, you're going to get us killed. And for what she was like for my son, so I could say my son, I was like, and how is that his problem? That's, I get it, Maggie trying to right. You were trying to save your son. These people who live here, they don't owe you. Shit. What would be with Luther? Like why the fuck am I about to risk my life to help you save your son? The one that said what Luther said as far as your son is already, didn't know because I'm sorry. Luther might be big, but the way Maggie was looking at him, I didn't feel like if hadn't killed Luther, Maggie probably would have.

49:27 But then you can't expect people to risk their lives for your son. Right. Give you a Sinai. Okay. MM, HM Well, here's some supplies. Go for it. But I don't know you or your kid, right? And I've already lost some of my people, a whole bunch of my people. And none of that was, let's be honest, none of that. Is the thing we always say about our people in The Walking Dead. They had a lost people and they hadn't gotten raided before Nick and Emmanuel walked in the door I.

50:07 Mean. No, they they had been raided before, but the girl didn't know it was me and the Maggie that came with. It it's them, it's them. Because that's why I used to say about Rick. Rick comes into town, you just know your your little community is over. Is is done? Yes. They bring, they bring the fire. They do. They do. If they don't like anything, we don't like how y'all wash clothes. They take it over. Remember Rick's line? How many of y'all do we have to kill before you see? They didn't do it on. Purpose. Not always they did. But every time they approached somebody else's space and they didn't care for it, and it'd be something small, sometimes they didn't care for it. It's like we take it over.

50:57 But I would, I mean, I have to say this too, for a long time, Rick and his people survived and others didn't. So they obviously were doing something right. I mean, yes, you. Right. Because they killed him. Yeah, they killed him. Man, let's go, let's go back to that whole lack of humanity thing. There's a big ass wide world out there and about 80% of the population are gone. Why are you fighting over this one little piece of man here? I mean, it is honest truth. Though in my house right now, if we have a zombie apocalypse and someone comes on the door knocking and they say, hey, we want your house, guess what?

51:40 It's a townhouse subdivision right here. There's three apartment complexes down the street. You want, you know what? You want this. You got it. I'm gonna go find my own shit because I ain't got time for this. I don't. I I'm not going to sit here and survive zombies just to be killed by another motherfucker. Who gonna be greedy and want to assert some dominance? What time for that? Because there's plenty it. I mean it's it's actually plenty of space for everyone. Because it's more dead than lie. It's more dead than live, so there's more commercial space, residential space.

52:25 And and if you've scavenged everything out of your area, go somewhere else, yeah? Move like everybody else did. Make map. Check this area, this area. We went here, We scavenged it. Because I feel like once you got, if you get the mall situated, that could be one full community right there. And I know. Each doors, each the small stores can be families living in there. You just have to close your gate in the evening. Just say somebody and your family turned into one from just being sick or something like that. A heart attack. You know what I mean? I mean, they thought. I mean, think about it. They actually. Food court can cook the food, heat up stuff.

53:08 They did that. If you're The Walking Dead, remember they found them all and they thought it was going to be a place for them. Yeah. So that somebody was following them. So I'm like, we can't, we have everyone can have their own little space. Just take the time and develop your space. Don't try to take my space because I took my time to develop it. Right now. You want to take it, take my resources, my people. Right. But going back to the group and and with Megan Negan now. Like we said, Maggie's sitting here. She's automatically assuming that just. And I think I I think the problem is, and I know a lot of parents do it, is that we place our children's existence above everyone else. We prioritize it above everyone else. And then we get mad when other people don't prioritize it because we're like, but they're a kid. Yeah, but they're not my kid, you know? And.

54:09 And. Right. And I mean, even in this day and age, now you have it where parents feel entitled for their children to do or say whatever. And then the people who don't have children for whatever reason, whether they couldn't have or they don't want to have children, they're expected to make concessions for these parents and these children just because, oh, they're children, OK, But that's your child. You know what I'm saying? Even, and even more so with with this world. And that's like, remember the man on the plane with the baby who was holler? Did the baby pay more to holler?

54:49 Like like that? Like come? Right. I mean, and I can understand getting upset about being inconvenienced, but for someone to be like, well, that's a baby, you know, like going to the movies. I'm sorry. I understand. Parents, get out. Get up, get out and half. Fly through drops. I drive in. Right, because when my child I don't want. To hear your baby screaming. No, and I ain't pay for that. Exactly. So I I do feel that, and I I mean. And it's okay if you miss the movie, Don't make us miss the movie. You get up and take them out into the lobby. Exactly.

55:30 And I'm saying this as a mother of. Three. Me too. My children were back-to-back two years, two years and, you know, four years apart. So I was going to the movies a lot of times with three, three very small children. If my children started acting up, first of all, you know, back then we were still giving spankings, we were still giving them, you better shut your mouth, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And my kids, thankfully, they never cut up like that because they were at the movies. They were like, ooh, we're at the movies. And that I said. Me too. But not a mother of three. I just had one. But. But take me to the movies, so I. Will we will go? Right.

56:10 We will go late when she was sleep too, right it is be sleeping in there while we watch the movies. I go sometimes at the midnight 10:00 o'clock, but so here Maggie, expecting them to like all of them to put like up literally says. You're going to get us killed. And for what? So I can get my son back? Look at my people? What task is keeping them alive? This is my priority. Fuck about you and this Croat or whatever. I'm trying to keep the rest of my people alive. And I think that's a lot to ask for people you just met. Right.

56:52 You are better off saying do you have an issue with this guy? Maybe we can work together that you can get what you want and I can get what I want, which is my son. Not even just. People that you met. People that you met and lied to about why you were there in the first place. True, because you should have came out with that when you first got there. I'm trying to get my son back. Do you have a problem with this person? We can work together, but you basically like, I don't. But she has. When she says it, she says it in a way that she basically says, I don't care if you die as long as I get my son. So. But. When she goes off to the side because again, Luther says you know your son is already dead, I don't know why you're not admitting it. And Negan basically has to step in and be like, OK, everybody take 5 minutes, take, take five and she kind of goes off into a different room.

57:47 She rummages through her backpack and she pulls out this 10 canister and when she opens it up, she has photos there's a photo of. Her family on the farm, there's a photo of a woman and a baby, and looking at the photograph, obviously it's not her and Herschel, because where would she have gotten the film developed? It looked like that might have been maybe her as a baby with her mother and. Then she pulls. Out a drawing of Glen, a very good drawing of Glen. Now here's my question again. Here we go with with asking questions that don't quite make sense.

58:29 So we know that Maggie left behind everything from the farm. We know they've kind of lived a nomadic life. I know that she went to her grandparents house with Herschel when she first left the group, so she could have gotten the photos from there. But you mean to tell me that in between the different communities where she has been running for her life because the communities got raided and then she's been on the run, and then with the common worth and everything. You mean to tell me she kept up with all of that most. Of it was a little 10. She put back her pocket, in her side pocket, in her back pocket.

59:16 Yeah, but first of all, how she get the drawing of Glee? That's my next question. Who Drew Glenn because? Yep, sketch artist is one in the hilltop. It needs to be somebody who that, that. I'm sorry, I understand what y'all are saying. Sketch artist. Yeah, you can describe a person to him. Whatever. That picture felt very personal. That's somebody who knew his face. So who drew that? She drew to picture? I don't know. It could have been her. Maybe Carol, maybe Darryl. Who else knew who? And we never saw the artistry.

59:56 Well, I mean, now we're kind of on the run for a long time because I said they wanted him to say space to drunk because even though Alexandria gets Kittles and. Yeah, because even in Alexandria they had they they weren't safe there for very long before the Saviors came knocking. Yeah, but Carol was able to make some great ass cookies. If she was drawn, she could draw it on. The in the evening time when it was nice and quiet while we're reading stories. Because I think even then, Alexandra, that's still too fresh because they were living there when all of that happened. So that might. Right, so it has to. It just could have been somebody at the hilltop. It really could have.

1:00:37 Been let's see Eugene. It could have been, could have been, I don't know, it could have been Aaron, could have been somebody. But I'm just saying it was. It was a very nice portrait and I'm like, y'all got to start warning the sister when y'all are going to like really tug at the heartstrings because I was, I'm going to be honest, I was not expecting to see Glenn physically in the show. Now we've already seen the flashbacks of the circle, which again, I was not expecting. I don't need y'all to show me that shit again. And then we see this very beautiful drawing of him. I was like, y'all y'all can't keep, y'all can't keep doing this.

1:01:20 But anyway, so Negan comes in to talk to her and I find it. I find it funny, but I also find it very sweet in a way that he's just kind of like. I think in the back of me is mine. He knows that Maggie would probably kill him if she if she had to have if if there was a choice, she probably would. But the fact, I think that he is still trying to make peace with her, her or at least just kind of call a a truce while they have to do what they have to do to save Herschel. Again, I find that very telling of the person that he is as opposed to this person that people keep thinking that they want him to be.

1:02:09 You know, it's like he comes in with this baseball cap and he was like, hey, I found this in one of the stores. I remember that first. She used to have one like it. I thought you might be able to give it to him when you saw him again. And it's so weird because Maggie is looking at him like, like. She still wants to be mad at him. But you can't. You can't really hate somebody who is actively trying to be nice. And I feel like it's genuine on his part. I don't think Megan expects them to be friends. I don't think he expects, even expects her to forgive him. But I think he's just like, hey, we don't always have to be at each other's throats.

1:02:52 That's not going to help us get your son, you know? And he's just trying to find a way to connect with her to be like, okay. Look, we got to meet on some kind of level in order to do what we need to do because, one, you're not going to save your son fighting with these other people. And two, we definitely can't save your son if we are not on the same page. Like we've been talking about the last couple episodes you came and got me. So at least let me try to be what I need to be for you. To help you get through this so you can get to your son. I like seeing that side of him. And you know, even when he comes to her, he was like, look, Luther is wrong. Herschel.

1:03:36 Herschel will be fine. He's still alive. You just got to come up with a plan. What's your plan? And what did he say? He said contrary, contrary to popular belief, I can't shut up. And he literally goes over and sits in front of her to listen. And she does open up to him a little bit. She was like the day that the crow act came for our grain. I told Herschel to hide in a root cellar, You know, she said at that point he would have went right if I told him to go left, you know, So it was so we already know that there's been tension between her and Herschel. We still don't know why. But she's basically telling him that, you know, he went to go get a stick and a brick like that was going to do something. I called him stupid.

1:04:23 He told me to get off his damn back and those were the last words we said to each other. So now, OK, you know, on top of just her being scared of her son being gone, she also has his guilt because that was the last thing she said to him. And if something happens to him, or even if something happens to her. That's the last thing he's going to remember, so of course she's worried about that. So then Negan opens up and finally gives us the answers we've all been wondering since episode one. First of all, we know that he and Annie had a son named Joshua, and that they were living in a cabin outside of New Babylon. New Babylon, he said.

1:05:11 Annie went into town. To trade. And by the evening time when she didn't come back, I knew something was wrong. I went and looked for her. I found her. And when I found her she had been robbed and beaten and and he just kind of looks away uncomfortably so we can all kind of, you know, fill that in. And he was like Annie told me not to go do anything stupid but you know me. I went and found them. All five of them, And he said. And I don't even think I meant to kill them or I don't think I wanted to kill them. I was like, oh, OK, that's sometimes that's worse. Because when you're mad. Right.

1:05:52 You went in there mad and you like, oh, I'm not going to kill him. And you probably did worse to them, which would. Especially depending on what they were saying, cuz like if they were had no voice about it and they were like. Teasing him about it, but this is OK. Here's the other thing, and y'all know I said something about this in the first episode about Harley Armstrong and his oh so righteous ways and oh, you killed some marshals and stuff. So if these are the five people that Negan is wanted for, you basically telling me that your lawmen are robbers, they're abusers, possibly rapists.

1:06:35 Yeah, you want to catch me again and hang him upside down and saw him down the middle from going to head again? Nothing has changed. Nothing has changed. You still got dirty cops. You still got people who feel like that badge makes them untouchable. Because I'm like that part, like. Hurley is so focused on finding Negan. Did you ever stop to think, OK, maybe there's a reason why he did this. Nope, I know he. Yeah, I would say he's not. He's not. He's not paying attention. He's not stopping to think about it. You can tell that hell, just from the first scene from when he first introduced into the show, he ain't give a fuck. He don't care about none of that. So Megan says that after after he killed the guys, they were on the run a lot.

1:07:29 But it was very hard on Annie and I was just sitting here like how how bad did they hurt her? Like, you know, I'm just, I'm like okay, I I. I have a couple of I have a couple of issues. Okay we going to go back one. Why they're not at the Commonwealth. I mean, I don't understand. He helped saved it. They could have been one of the outposts for Commonwealth, just living a good life. She could have been still. They could still be helping the people that they found and had helped in the apartment. Why go off to live in a little cabin outside of New Babylon? I want more information on that.

1:08:16 Because we're pretending. I feel like we're pretending that the Commonwealth don't exist. But it does exist because we don't, we don't mention it because it's like even with Hilltop, because Hilltop said that they want to get resources to rebuild. But she couldn't rebuild, so she had to move Hilltop, like, where are these people leaving? Is Commonwealth bad again? I'm just wondering. I'm just curious. I don't think it would be with Ezekiel and Mercer leading. Yeah, I'm just saying that, but. I think that goes back to one. It could have been that. Maybe Negan and Annie were there for a while, and then Maggie. So we know at the end of the we know at the end of The Walking Dead, Maggie and Negan have this conversation and she basically tells him I can't forgive you, but I can see that you are not the same person you know she was. Like, if you and Annie want to stay, y'all can, You've earned it.

1:09:19 But maybe. And and this goes back to us talking about Maggie and her. Her lack of development or her lack of being able to put this behind her. Maybe they got to be too much. But she's at Hilltop. You still got Oceanside? Man, you asked a question. I'm trying to. I'm just trying to talk it through. Even if you are at Hilltop Okay right now, all of your communities, y'all are back in this whole. Trading thing. You got Alexander people here, you got some here, you got some here. Now, we know a lot of the people who knew Negan still didn't like him too much.

1:10:02 Maybe it got to a point where they started treating him like okay. You know what? He's not the he's not the same bad guy anymore. If they started showing him a little mercy, a little grace, a little bit of, you know, okay, I'm going to give a little here. Maybe that was too much for Maggie to take. And she was like, okay, I can't be, you know what I'm saying? That could be very well, yeah. But Maggie not going. Maggie's not going to the Commonwealth. I can see her staying at Hilltop, and there's so much more Commonwealth people who don't know nothing about them. Or maybe some stories I just feel like with the son.

1:10:42 It's really a plot device, I know, because we got to get him closer to New Babylon and for all this stuff to happen, to put him in the right place, her in the right place to meet up so he can help her save her son. I get that. But let's really talk that through because we want we're going to stay in Commonwealth, we're going to stay in Commonwealth, especially while she's pregnant to keep up with her prenatals and delivery. Then you have a kid, you want to stay around us so they can get they shots. And whatever they need to go through through this childhood, they. Were part of outreach for the Commonwealth. Maybe they were like, OK, we're going to expand here. We're going to expand there. I mean, that's not unheard of now I can go with that. But they needed to mention that. But the thing with Maggie, I feel like because Maggie has left the group before again.

1:11:30 I don't see that this would be something outside of normal for her, for her to just up and be like, oh, OK, well, we can't make Hilltop work here, so we're going to take it way over here. And then she took her son with her. That could be a reason why her. I I did that with Maggie because she she she's not planning her roots anywhere. I I I understand that at all. She I don't think she wants to. No, I'm not saying that she don't want to. I think she can't do that right now, OK? But as far as I think for her movement, I think movement and going somewhere to start a fresh she needed that, but it is so that it helped her yet so. What we found out from him is after all of that, when they're doing all the moving around because he's on the run, he said.

1:12:21 It's it's hard for her. So what? He no, I was talking about Maggie moving, but I get back to, I get back to this one. Yeah, no, I'm finishing my answer for it for me and Annie. He when he talks about he says that it got hard for Annie. So what he did was he put them on a wagon train to the jewelry and he told them that he will follow them, but he never did because he didn't want his troubles following after them. You know he wanted them safe. So I feel like if the. I don't think if she was in that kind of a vulnerable, vulnerable position. I don't see Megan putting him. I mean, putting her and their son on a train wagon with people they don't know, with people going to make sure that they're protected.

1:13:11 So maybe, you know, again, maybe. That was part of the Commonwealth. Like, oh, OK, we're going to expand out because again, let's go back to the whole thing. If you stay in one area for long enough, one you've exhausted all the game you've exhausted. A lot of the resources, you've exhausted most of the places, yeah. And they were doing that already. They were doing that already again, they got, they had fresh hair pieces. So they know what resources, they know where to go, you know what I'm saying? They had a wrestling, you know, wrestling pit. They know where to go for their resources. Okay, they had a lot of machine.

1:13:51 I mean they knew where to go. Okay, Commonwealth. They were expanding. I just again. It's the wig maker for me. Feel like I just don't feel like they will go until cabin. If he has said that, it would make more sense. They they were doing something and OK, and then here's my second point that I have an issue with and then I'm done, OK, Knowing Negan's past and what happened with Lucille, I still don't buy in his character him leaving his wife and child. I mean you can come up with the reasons why I don't want this to follow.

1:14:35 We were running because you can run across country. This new Babylon sheriff shit is only in this area right here because there's other areas that have other sheriffs and other things and they not communicating clearly. We know that. But his character, that is not what he want to do. If you had told me if he has said she left him because of what he did. I would have bought that. That's more. Belief. I kind of think. I kind of think in a way he sent them away because of what he did, because he didn't. It's different when you're dealing with another adult because another adult can look at things rationally and say, OK, I understand why he did this. I mean, think about it.

1:15:20 And he knew what he had done to Glenn and Abraham and all the other stuff that he did. And she still fell in love with him. And she still actually ran with him when they were moving. She just got tired of doing it right. But when you have a child and one you are trying to distance yourself from that person. You used to be that violent person. Now who knows when he had to go kill those five men. Maybe that awakens something to him. The the, the, the hesitance. The hesitancy and the fear that we've seen in this episode. And he was like, I don't want my son to see this. Right. But I still don't agree that he would have left them.

1:16:02 I'm just saying the character. But you have to keep in mind, because I said the same thing about Michonne, because what would make you leave your two kids? You know what I mean? And there has to be something. But see, it's easier. Because she already had the trauma of her original kids, but they have a a big support system and she's trying to bring the dad back home. So that'll be like Annie leaving their child to bring Negan back home. But Negan been through so much, I just feel, felt like two things should have happened once you left him or something happened to them that would make more sense it. Makes sense to me that he would let them. Go.

1:16:47 That let he let go that one time and came back and stuff happened. But see, that was something that was beyond his control. I understand that he could control and he could control, but not knowing, I just don't feel like that's in his new character now. But that's just, you know, I'm just saying that's just how I felt like. But a lot of their choices is some stuff that I don't. So the Maggie's choices is not in her character, but I know it's again to set up. We don't need him with a child right now and the wife to worry about why she's while he's helping Maggie. But yeah, he has. But they couldn't speaking.

1:17:30 He has a child. So. Right. And then put yourself, you see what I'm saying? Because you going to go meet with them later on maybe are you? So you just going to leave her with your son out there in the world? I don't. I don't know. But I mean, he's. Also. If you think about it, he's also, he's not said that he was going to stay with Jenny. He told Jenny I have been trying to find a safe place for you. So it's not like he's saying, oh OK, I'm going to I'm going to take care of this girl and be her dad while his own child is out there in the world. No, I didn't think anything that, but like did he say he was going to go back for his child and wife? I we haven't gotten that far. I think, I think for the most part.

1:18:12 He was telling that story to Maggie just to say, hey, we all make mistakes with the people that we love and we all make decisions, You know, we do things that we think are in their best interest, because what? What was it? He said? He said, I hope that they're okay and maybe I don't have a right to do that, but isn't that all we have in the end? Hope. I think that was more so. Let me share my story with you especially. And she asked about Annie. You know. Right I I just I don't know I just I I it's just it's one of those things I'd still. Hopefully we'll get some more information because yeah, I just that that part of it does bother me that you would put them on a wagon going to another state because again, I don't feel like he would do that unless it was people that they knew. So it's kind of like OK so.

1:19:16 Right. Because that's a lot. There's a lot of questions I have. So I'm on the same page with you on that. It's just especially all the stuff he did, even when he stood up for everyone when they were at Alexander and he was on his knees when he realized what he had done. All of those things. And you have a chance again. And yes, you you had well, first of all, you did what you supposed to do. She was attacked. I mean, I don't you you didn't go out and just murder somebody because you had a couple of beers at in New Babylon, but and again, you going to Oklahoma. Oklahoma ain't close to New Jersey. Missouri, but.

1:19:57 OK, I know where they went. Yeah, he said. Missouri. But I will say this, too, depending on what? Depending on what condition he left those five people in. That could have scared him too, if if if if he pulled a Glen and Abraham on them or worse. I mean think about it, the punishment for his capture, like I said in the first episode. But he already know he got to do it. He know he got to do it. He knew he had to do it so he would spill their guts out. What should scare him is the boy that he just smashed in the glass. That's who should have scared you from last episode if you just quit.

1:20:39 But I know because he killed Ole. But because you quickly, you, you, quick. That wasn't even your wife and child. The matter she share her pigeon with him. I understand that, I agree. But I'm just saying you would snap real quick to do that. Don't be scared that you kill some men who who did things to your wife. But you got to make a point because these men, that man that you smashed through the window, is associated with someone who knows who you are. So right then, I feel like Negan, if he's going to make a show of who he is, he's got to come out strong. And again, this is something we have seen plainly on his face. He does not want to be this person anymore. He doesn't want to tap into that. You know, it's like.

1:21:30 I don't think that. I don't think so either. He said, I, you know, hold on. I don't remember if it was this, this episode or not. But he said this is something that's that's feeling real familiar. And I that's the person. I'm not trying. I'm not trying to be or I haven't wanted to. Be He may not have wanted to be that person, but it's still in him because as easily as he switched knocking that man through that glass. As easily as he just fighting Luther as the thing. OK, so let's talk about the Luther fight, because I don't even feel like in that fight he will kill Luther. He was like, look, I'm.

1:22:16 Sorry, but if you find a cheese grater across, somebody hit there. Oh, but but because Luther was trying to kill him first. Now I that that's a whole different thing. self-defense. Luther came at him, was in there minding his own business trying to. He did tell him like stop a couple of times, don't do this. Don't do this. Luther was the one who kept pushing and because you have this, this wanted poster. In your pocket and you're reading off all these attributes. You think you know who the person is that's standing in front of you? Well, obviously you were not paying attention to that fucking poster they told you do not approach for a reason.

1:23:01 But again, fuck around and find out because you went after Negan right after he just told you he was in there looking for weapons for them to use against the Crow Act. So that should have told you right then and there. That motherfucker was prepared. You came at him, you got a cheese grater to the face. And again, I don't think he was trying to kill him. He was just trying to get him to stop. And he was like, look, this is not the fight you want. We supposed to be fighting the same thing now when he ran that cheese grater across his face and pushed him. And Luther, Oh. He also didn't know the push was going to kill him, right?

1:23:42 Because. Why would you think that? Oh, I'm going to push him. And there's a pipe jutting out from the from the floor and his head is going to land in that pipe, not any of that. He was basically like, you are not about to put us out on the street, not tonight. And he took that. Look, we're in the morning. If you really want us go, we'll go. We'll leave in the morning. Luther had to be no y'all going to leave right now. I bet you they didn't. And I mean, even with Luther falling on the pipe, implanting his head on the pipe, Negan could have easily left him there to suffer. Instead, he puts him out of his misery. Yes, it looks harsh to us because of the way he did it, pushing his head down on the pipe, but what else was he going to do?

1:24:42 Yes. He don't want him to turn into a Walker when once he dies. Right. Which again, that's a whole different person than the person that we knew from 10 whatever years ago. So I I don't know. It's just. Luther fucked around, found out OK. But the other thing that happens in this episode is Maggie. Maggie is sitting there while they're trying to make their plans for the next day and the the chick with The Walking stick comes in and she's obviously one of the tribes people.

1:25:25 She's in that group. And when she empties her bag and Maggie sees the Dino, immediately Maggie is thinking, oh fuck, that means Jenny is here and you. I thought at first that she would go and tell Negan, but then I thought about it just that quickly. I said she's not going to tell Megan because if Megan knows, Jenny is there. That's going to be his priority. He's going to be like, I got to go take care of her. And. Then right. And then Maggie is going to be with these other people who, let's be honest, at this point, between the tribes people and Megan, she's probably better off trusting Megan, because at least you know what he's capable of. You know how he thinks.

1:26:13 And granted, after all of that stuff, the way that he's still trying to make amends right now, or at least trying to be cordial to you, at least you know he not going to leave you for dead. At least you know if something happens to you, he's going to try to his best to make it right. I mean, that's what he did with the guy with the window. That guy attacked the tribes people and Megan got pissed off about it, so. You know when she takes that dinosaur and she goes outside with the matches? Which she still. Needs match matches. But when she goes outside, I'm like, is she really going to torch this thing? Like.

1:26:57 And then of course, here's Jenny outside looking through a car window again not a Walker Insight. And she sees that Maggie is about to burn the dinosaur. But the episode goes off. So I was like, OK, is she going to actually come out of hiding because of that dinosaur? Like doesn't mean that much to her, which I'm figuring it probably does. I'm I'm guessing that was probably something her dad gave her before he died. So I I don't know, like you say, I feel like people are making bad choices, bad decisions all around.

1:27:40 Because, Maggie, if you want these people to help you with your son, you need to show them that you care about them too. OK, Luther, he he got you know, you reap what you sell. You went in there and attacked the boogeyman, and now your ass is sitting dead with a pipe in your head. I don't know what's going to happen with Pearly Armstrong. I really don't care. Yeah, I don't mean. Hopefully this shit will go. Away. I don't. Know his face is going to be stuck. I have no feelings for.

1:28:23 I just don't like. Aside from him being the reason that the Croat now knows that Megan is in town, I don't understand his whole purpose in this story. It just. Yeah, that's the hard part. It's like I don't see his purpose appear in the story, but the only purpose is that Negan left his family for this because then that's the sheriff that is chasing him. You see what I'm saying? So that would just be the only reason to push us into this world of he really did leave his wife and kid to go to Missouri and he is about to go help.

1:29:03 I think we're some of the only few people that actually care, because I know a lot of people didn't like the whole and the Annie storyline. Yeah, I, I, I. And that's why I guess maybe I have a problem with it, because I feel like then it was just we got them and now we just going to push them to the side. So then at that point we really didn't need him to be with Annie or to be pregnant. I think they put him with her and made her pregnant, I feel like, to further humanize him. Oh yeah, I agree. And for him to get that point when his family is about to be murdered, but then then the next storyline, we need to get rid of that family. And I know people enjoy it, but people didn't want him to have a family.

1:29:51 I get it. You don't. First of all, you don't want him to have that. And not a happy ending because you living in this world, so it's not all that happy but to have some type of happiness. They don't want him to have any type of redemption, yeah. Or even just Or happiness. You don't have to be redeemed. You're still going to be a badass and still be happy. You know what I'm saying? With your gangster wife and son. But they don't want him to have nothing. Right. But I mean, at least they told us. So we can all stop wondering because I I'm gonna be honest, I actually, I liked her character and I was like, oh, well, Megan is about to have a show, so maybe we'll see more of her. Because remember my thought originally when everybody was like, so if Megan and Megan are going to New York, where's Hershel?

1:30:44 I was like, Annie's probably babysitting them. Then we figured out that Herschel was going to. Get killed. Be kidnapped. Like, yeah, how many times is this for Herschel? Yeah, but it makes me also think of when shows, right? It makes me think of when shows when the the main characters have a key and then the kid disappears like they never had the kid, but you make them have a kid. We are not about to compare this to family matters. Come on now. I mean, there's so many of them. They do it all the time and they every show that they have kids and then the kids disappear like what kids say. I love stairs to that room and. Everything. Yeah. My favorite. My favorite. Yeah.

1:31:25 Like, yeah. So it's he had to. He had to be alone. There's a lot of decisions. Again, a lot of decisions. Yeah, but. Okay. So let's see. Let let's let's do a little wrap up. So Maggie is pissing everybody off because she's willing to sacrifice them all to save her child. Negan just was forced to kill someone because they want the fuck around and find out. The Croat just found out that his daddy figure is home and he's ready to show off all his goodies and how well he's done in school. Pearly Armstrong is just Pearly Armstrong.

1:32:05 Jenny needs a whooping. And I will say this too, Tomaso and Amaya, I'm still kind of sort of on the fence about them because I understand Amaya is upset that they got raided and a couple of people. Got killed, including Esther or as Michelle Carter. What did you call it? Rose? Rose, Rose, Rose you. Understand. She's upset that they got killed, but you weren't even considering going after him when y'all had more people and now all of a sudden you're gung ho?

1:32:48 Oh yeah, we'll distract his people while you go after your son and y'all kill him and this and the other she feels too. Too willing to help. Whereas Luther was all the way on the opposite side, because, I mean, even even the way that she came at Luther, Luther was like, look, the decision has already been made, we're not doing this, she said. What are we supposed to do? Stand around holding our Dicks? I was like, oh, OK, But again, it's like your people, y'all took it to a vote. They said no, and you're still like, oh, we're going to help so. In in a sense, too, it's almost like she's willing to risk their lives too for a stranger, which maybe that's the type of person she is. Maybe she's like, OK, you know what? If this woman's child is is there and we can help, we can help.

1:33:41 OKI don't have a problem with that either. But I don't know something about her and Tomaso and then they also. Kind of briefly focused on this, and I didn't really get a chance to think about it too much. So when Tomasso is telling them about how he escaped, because apparently at some point Tomasso was there with the Croats people, he you know, he would go and beg and the Croat would throw him food and medicine and then finally he came inside, but he was able to escape. When he's talking about this, Maggie notices his back. And his back looks like he has had chunks taken out of it, like he's been with like a cat of nine tails or something. But I was like, I feel like there's more to that story. But I I don't want to.

1:34:35 I don't want to necessarily say, oh, he's part of the Croats crew because the tribes people are his family and it's obvious him and Amaya are together. So I don't think he would. Like, purposefully sell them out. But I don't know. Something about those two is just kind of like they're, I don't know, they feel too eager to try to go after this person who who y'all have been terrorized, terrified of for years. So I I don't know. I don't know. It's going to be interesting. I just want to know what this fallout is about to be like when they find Luther dead.

1:35:19 So because. They weren't in the same building that they were in, right? They might have been, but I think Negan and Luther, maybe they were in a basement or. Like a different rule? Yeah. Maybe they were on the other side of the building or something. Because. Negan probably would have, he would have gone to, you know, searching around like he said he was checking for weapons. Everybody else was in there packing their bags. And you know, these are all family. These are all people, So they're in there talking with each other and stuff. So he would snuck away when when nobody was looking like okay, ain't nobody going to miss me and let me go on ahead and do this. And it just so happened, Luther following him, probably trying to see what it is that he's doing, like maybe trying to make sure that Megan wasn't doing something. Because again, they did find out that him and the crow at knew each other in this episode.

1:36:15 So maybe Luther was thinking, oh, that's. How so? Luther was already skeptical. Yeah, he was when he he soon as he walked into the room, he was sizing them up maybe. That's how they found us or something like that, you know, because again, the the barocity showed up right after they captured Megan and Maggie. So it could have been, if you're looking at it from the outside, we know different, but. I mean, like I said, I don't blame Luther for being skeptical, but there's ways to handle certain things. And I know I made the joke in the last episode about Luther being a big boy. Besides, don't account for everything. That's what I'm saying. That's why. That's why he was sizing up like, see, he's a threat. You got you got to have some smarts, too.

1:36:56 And Megan has that in spades. So, I mean, remember. Yeah, poor Luther didn't last long. No. But I mean, it's only a 6th episode. We had a. Fucking attitude. Y'all may know anybody with an attitude. You're right. You're right Put. Up with that shitty shit, I mean. If you think about it, Pearly's 2, His two people, they didn't last long. Esther didn't last long, so. Right now, we're not attached to anything. Because the first person I did attached to was the bar owner. She was gone.

1:37:38 We we weren't attached to her because we liked her character. We just we were attached to her because it was machine. I know, I know. But you know, just thinking she was going to be in the show for a while, but clearly nobody's in the show for a while unless Unique and Maggie and Hersch. Right. And and let's be honest, we don't know what that's going to look like. They can. I've seen a lot of people speculate that. You know, Negan's probably going to sacrifice himself to save Herschel. He's going to sacrifice himself to save Maggie. Or that once they do rescue Herschel, when Herschel sees that is Megan that's helped, he's probably going to try to kill Megan. Or at that point, Maggie won't need Megan anymore. Maybe she'll try to kill him.

1:38:21 I've also seen people speculate that, and I think we touched briefly on this last for the last episode. I've seen people say that maybe Maggie is using Megan or tricking Megan, like maybe she's bringing him to the Croat. But I'm like, why would she? I don't know. I get, I guess if the Croat has already taken all of your food and he's taking your child, then if he says, hey, I want you to find this person. Especially if Megan got posters all around. Yeah, he would be. Compelled to say OK, let me go find him but. Yeah, I can see her doing that. I but I don't like.

1:39:04 It's for her son. She's willing to sacrifice innocent people she has never met. But in 10 minutes to sacrifice for her son. What? You want me to? Do yeah. So she she's, I can see her doing that. And then this is not a Steven Spielberg film. So you know her. She could die. This is true. He is gonna die too. I mean, think about it. Carl was supposed to grow up to be the leader of Alexandria, and he ended up getting killed in the show. Yeah, so you know you, you know it. We don't. Get no next Gen. Stuff. So you just, Yeah, we don't know. The only only thing that we did mentions and. Friends.

1:39:52 No I don't favor the villains. I'm just giving some back story here. The Koac he has issues because he had to come home to smell his burning family being cooked for a BBQ. You know for a fellow family that was starving. So he look he has some problems and then he tortured people. That's why I'm I'm like you were a scientist but you could also have been. A murderer too, but they could. Also have been something he picked up after his family was killed, you know, at that point. When your love of torturing is is something you also may have picked up when you were a kid. I don't know that don't come as easy killing when. You're in this type of torturing when you're. Entering is different.

1:40:42 World and there are no punishments. But that means you bringing out something that's internal. Torturing is completely different. Torturing is inside that you get you get some pleasure for some torture. And he likes the theatrics too. He like the theatrics. So he a little different. So I was online and somebody mentioned something that made me think and I was like, oh. I didn't get a chance to go back in and try to find the scene, but apparently, like when the Saviors first got on the scene and you know, I think this was before they actually met Megan, when it was more so like the stories of Megan and what who he was and what he did was going around, there was supposedly a conversation about the fact that Megan killed a 14 year old. And I was like, I wonder, is this the person that Megan was talking about that the Croat killed? Because remember he said she was just a kid. Now I would have thought kid as in a 14 year old, but if that was the conversation, that might make sense because if we remember there were a lot of things attributed to Megan that he actually did not do or did not order. Hey Simon And the Scavengers.

1:42:09 So that could have been something that they were like, Oh yeah, this Negan did this. But remember, at that time, everybody was Negan. Right. You know. And when you're the leader you got to take responsibility for, they gonna pin it all on you anyway. Yeah. And they could have been doing, I mean, they could have been doing that just to kind of add to his. I don't know what you want to call it. Add to his profile. Add to his, you know, his. His scariness. Yeah, that. So. But now I'm sitting here thinking like, oh, was that the Croat? Like, is that one of the ways that they're tying it together? Was that actually the Croat? And that was it.

1:42:50 Then it would put them out. That's a good way it would make sense. Yeah, because remember, Nika had a rule. No, no, kids, we don't. We don't do that to kids. And his other was we don't rape women. So that could be the whole, you know, the the time piece between him and the Croat. So, I don't know, but so, oh, you know what? We didn't mention that little dinner scene. I do want to mention that before we close out. The little dinner scene where they all sat around and they, yeah, they kind of, I guess, paid tribute to their lost ones with like, these little pieces. I thought that was a really nice scene. And then, you know, you see Maggie and Megan sitting there just kind of looking.

1:43:43 And then I noticed when when Megan closed his eyes, Maggie had a folded piece of paper that she grabbed. And she closed her hand on. And at first I was like, is that the drawing of Glenn? But no, that was on Gray paper. I don't think she has another wanted poster. I think that's what that was. Are you sure? I thought it was the picture of Glenn. I don't think it was the picture of Glenn. Oh, I thought it was picture of Glenn too, because The Wanted poster is on this yellowish kind of paper. But. I was thinking like when they were having the conversation after he had told her about Annie, the way that she was looking at him.

1:44:28 I think, I think one of the reasons why Maggie continues being a Dick to him is because if she lets her guard down, she she has to actually start looking at him as a as a human being. And I don't think she wants to do that, but she was looking at him during that scene. And I was like, what is going on with her? Because she was looking at him in a weird way, not like she was. I don't know how to explain it. It was it was something about the way she was looking at him. I was like, huh, Something's going on.

1:45:08 Or maybe she didn't. I don't. I don't want to say she didn't tell them the truth because I I think that. I think that story she told him about her and Herschel's argument, I think that's a little too personal for her to make up. And then, you know, we also saw the flashback of her and Herschel not getting along. So I think that was true. I don't know. I figured out maybe maybe we'll learn something else in the next episode, but I I don't. Know. Yeah. It's true about Herschel. Because when he's a teenager. So that happens. Yeah, Get. Off my back, OK, but. Don't find out one way. And you get kidnapped, so. Your Mama had you gone to the root cell of your ass? My.

1:45:50 Right. So you know that, you know that's that's so that's true, right? So. So. But you guys have any final thoughts about episode three? We are halfway through already. I don't like these short little six season. I mean 6. Episodes. Oh no. Keep in mind the first the first season of The Walking Dead was on the 6th episode, so. Yeah, but we knew we were getting another season. Well, I didn't know that Season 3. Oh yeah, that's true. That's true. But we don't know what's going on with this one. We may get some news this weekend because San Diego Comic Con is this weekend, and even though the writers and the actors are striking right now, there is going to be an AM C panel.

1:46:39 I believe it's on Friday. And they are supposed to present some information about the spinoffs as far as the ones that have already completed filming. So we never continue with whatever spinoffs, spinoffs I think in the I. Say it's a spinoff now, Casey. I left your team, especially since we haven't mentioned any other parts of the last season. No Commonwealth any. And Joshua's gone, so this is spinoff. Yes, thank you spin off. But anyway, so like I was the Daryl Dixon first season has already has already filmed. They've started doing some promotion for it. So we may get some news on that.

1:47:24 Oh, we also do have a release date for the Daryl Dixon show. I believe that is September 10th. Let me look real quick. September 10th is the release of The Daryl Dixon Show. That's when it premieres. The Ricky Michon Show has finished filming. I don't know where they are in the editing process. I'm hoping this weekend we get some kind of information for it, but I know anything else that would be in production like the the second season of The Daryl Dixon Show, they have shut down production on that for the because of the strike, so.

1:48:06 Maybe by the time we record for Episode, I would say maybe Episode 5 we will have some spinoff news that we can share and discuss. Have you guys seen any of the teaser trailers for Daryl Dixon yet? I saw the non one, I saw him walking through all the countryside. The Walking, walking and the one with the nuns. OK, so the one with the nuns? Really. I didn't see the nuns, only seen the. Walking, walking and walking. I will share that with you once we close out, but yeah, that one. Is and walking it's. Tricking because I'm like how? What They got a whole lot of questions to answer in this phone.

1:48:51 The first damn episode. And. They don't. Answer all these questions in this first episode? Yeah, it's going to lose me because how the fuck? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It has to make sense. That part. But Darrell, I I feel like that's like our catch phrase for these spinoffs right now. Make it make sense because I know I said it a lot with the first half of Season 8 for fear. Make it make sense. I mean, you got to it, Darrell. How the hell is Darrell Dixon ending up in France, Darrell. And from that one little thing, he was floating on top of the boat.

1:49:33 Your ass ain't floated across. Some seas to get from America to Paris and take longer than that little float boat. You'd be floating on that boat. You'd be a skeleton by the time you got over there. Especially the way sharks and whales have been attacking boats lately. Like, I mean, I realize we're on a different timeline from them. We're in the multiverse. But yeah, I just don't see that happening. So yeah, they they're going to have to be very thorough when they explain this because, I mean, this is Darrell. Who didn't even like going to the other communities there? Or who didn't like being who didn't? Even like taking a bath, y'all gonna sent them across the ocean and a whole bunch of water so.

1:50:15 Yeah. Come on now. Come on now. Remember, Carol was like, you need a shower. Come. On now. Yeah, I'm gonna take that vest off you and hose you down. Okay. So. I guess we'll figure that out or hopefully again, we may have some information by this weekend with San Diego Comic Con. If we do, we will share that on our next recording. But for now, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. And threads at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms.

1:51:02 Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.