The Walking Dead: Dead City Season 2 Episode 2 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #363

0:24 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hannah Cohen. I'm here with Michelle and Casey and we are discussing Season 2, Episode 2 of The Walking Dead, Dead City and Hurley said probably his most profound statement in this episode that I'm going to agree with and that was she has been right all along. I don't know why they won't listen to her after all this time, let me tell you. With, with their group, with the New Babylonians and with the the New York group. I'm sitting here and I'm like, y'all must be writing these characters dumb in order to amplify Maggie and Negan, but y'all don't need to do that 'cause we already know Maggie and Negan know what they're doing. Why are these characters so dumb on both sides? They are so dumb and I'm just like, I'm waiting for these people to die.

1:24 I would. I was cheering the Croat and and their group today 'cause I was like, yes, let's get rid of some of these dumbasses. Right, not the one that needed to go like Charlie Bird. Can she get hit? Charlie Bird got hit. Novias novias. That's who need to die. I'm. Sorry, I don't. I don't even know where to start. This is what I want to say I got some place to start at the beginning of this episode very beginning. First thing what they doing driving cars right? Which means y'all got gas from some damn where? Why is we on this mission?

2:07 Why are we all? That's the first thing I saw when I'm. OK, I'm gonna answer that question in the vein of Michelle's mindset. But they got gas. Right, because gas is limited. That meant they got it coming from the dead bodies. That's limitless. But they wasted a whole lot of gas. They did. It to the the dock. Not even the waste of gas. Not even just that, like Maggie said, you're taking us on a ferry across like like they're not going to see that. It's it's dark, it's foggy and y'all are lit up like a motherfucking beacon and where where come for you.

2:51 But if you are in charge, when you just even take the information like OK, it was burning tires, she may have a point. Let's have a plan AB and C, let's maybe divide up just in case. Let's send something out there just in case to see what they have planned. But no. So let me tell you, I think if Novias wasn't in the picture, she wasn't always running off at the mouth trying to, I don't know, exert her authority, show that she she is knowledgeable about what they're doing and stuff. If it if she was out of the picture and Charlie Bird only had to listen to who was around her listening to Maggie, listening to Pearly. Those are the two people who have been on the island before. So that's who she should be listening to. And she kind of sort of it seems like she defers to to pearly like, OK, I hear what's being said over here. So what do you think?

3:53 And I don't know if she's doing that just for I don't know. But I feel like Novaeus is the main problem and the fact that she is still around while Charlie Bird is gone. I'm like, OK, you bout to you bout to fuck stuff up for everybody because one, you don't know what the fuck you're doing. I don't know what your job was in in the previous life pre apocalypse, but obviously it wasn't what you're doing now because you're so busy trying to make it seem like you're so important. You got so much to say and you're doing this. The first of all, Maggie should have punched her twice in this episode.

4:34 The first time was when she was like, soldier, get back and snap and point. Bitch, bitch, I, I told you I was gonna try to stop cussing on this podcast. The first episode wasn't it. And it ain't gonna be this episode either, because, bitch, that should have been the first punch. And then the second punch came right when it was supposed to. But that punch should have been hard. Like that punch should have knocked her out. Like everybody know everybody. No, Maggie, don't play about herself. Why was it? Threatening him. And why would you threaten? Him and.

5:14 And not just y'all got to lay off the children just in general, because you see, even on the other side, Megan looking so disinterested in the Domino's being excited and the Croat being excited, they don't get any kind of reaction out of him until she says, oh, what's wrong? You must be so you must be so preoccupied with the imminent reunion of your family. And you saw the way he kind of tapped Lucille and looked at her like, bitch, you got one more time to bring my family into this. Y'all going like, are y'all not reading the room? They not. That is the whole reason why you wanted this man and you going to keep antagonizing him. But we're going to get to them later.

5:54 Let's go back to Maggie and them, because again, Nevaez is the one who should have been Firebomb. Right, she needed to get hit by a zombie bomb. That's what I needed. They're they're, they're telling you literally from junk. Early wanted Maggie on that mission because she has the insider knowledge. She knows what she's dealing with. And not paying attention to that and not paying. Attention And I don't blame her. She was like, why even bring me on this if you're not going to listen to what I have to say? She's telling y'all using a fairy That's out of the question. He already knows that you guys are coming because what did you do when you were there?

6:38 Pearly? You told him who you was. You told him. Oh, I'm a sheriff with New Babylon. They already know you're coming. Yeah. She's trying to tell y'all how to put, how to, I guess not even sneak, because at this point she's like, we need to turn around and come up with a better idea. And the vias is like, you, you want us to leave all our army back? Yes, because you're gonna end up with you. What you ended up with anyway, A dead army. I was just watching this episode. Like, I'm really, I'm really, really trying to get to a point where I'm just not hate watching because of these characters. But these people are stupid. They are stupid.

7:24 And I don't blame it. If I was mad, I'd be like, OK, y'all want to go on that? OK, Yeah. You know what? I would have done exactly what she did. I would have punched that chick in the face and I would have just sat down there if they hadn't started firebombing. I would have just sat there and been like, OK, you know what? I'm gonna let y'all do what y'all gonna do. You got it. And then, you know, I mean, these people are so dumb. And then apparently. We knew that from when they first came even into the bricks though. Yeah, that you're right. From RIP. But we knew that from last season as well, when they started talking all this mess about, OK, so tell us about the methane. Y'all don't want to go there?

8:09 Y'all don't want to go there? But since you going there, you bring the smartest purple, You, you, you got the smartest person who been there and the made it back. But I don't want to listen to nothing, nothing she's saying. At all. They don't want the person who can fight against the walkers the best because you saw Novias when they washed up on the island when the walkers started coming. She reaching for her gun 'cause you probably can't do shit against them walkers without it. When I say this is one of the most ill liked like I cannot stand this character. She is one of like.

8:49 Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. Do you hate her more than Madison? Let me contemplate that for a minute. Yes, because you know what, Madison, at least some of the time when she was doing stuff, she was doing stuff with a purpose. And she did have a smart way of doing things because it was all about protecting her kids. And she didn't. She really thought she was doing the right thing and what she was doing she was. And she she had her moments where anything that she was doing that was about protecting her kids. So she's not really trying to make a lot of stupid decisions. Now later on, I don't know what that was.

9:31 Like I said, I don't know what that was. They brought back that wasn't Madison, in my opinion. But yeah, no, she's definitely above Madison on my most hated characters list because this bitch is just dumb. And she's, she's, she has a lot of ego and she just, I don't know, she's trying to prove she has the biggest balls in, in the group and that ain't the case. Right. And you're not making wise decisions. So how did you even get into that position? But I guess I've never really had to do anything really that requires some strategic thinking.

10:14 I mean, it's just so like every, everyone knows that you do not cross in the open like that, that that makes no sense. They know you're coming. And if they did know you were coming, they may have lookouts like you don't think they have perimeter lookouts protecting the area. Like watch like come on. Free. They set the fire of the tires. We'll, we'll. We'll we'll, we'll get to that. We'll get, I mean, yeah, right. If somebody lit the fires on tire but. You but you know what? The first thing I thought of in the beginning of this episode, really, I thought of you, Casey. When why is his name just drawing the plane?

10:56 Herschel Herschel, Herschel, Herschel came. I was like, oh, he need a whooping. He was told to stay where he was. Stay where you don't listen either. But you know what I understand. Understood because he like. He was like, they basically kidnapped you when when they kidnapped me, did you just sit around? No, no. And he probably has an idea. He was like he has even better experience to dealing with them then the rest of them. So I got it. But in the beginning I was like, oh he need a whooping because he was supposed to stay at home. Yeah, put your. Ass down Jenny, still getting on my nerves with that silent treatment shit. You know what? We we know you could talk. We know you could talk.

11:39 Now you can be silent. You know, I think the whole thing. Yes, bad. The whole thing with Jenny is I understand she's still pissed at Maggie. I do get it. You know, you, you you went to Manhattan in the 1st place on false pretenses. You told this big lie about why you had to go and why Herschel was kidnapped and you know, all this other stuff about the grin. And so I get it. She's a teenager. She's still holding, you know, she's still holding a grudge. But at some point, like Maggie said, it's just you and me here. We got to have each other's back, and I have your back. Ain't nobody else going to have your back like Maggie has. And I need you to get over that.

12:22 Like you doing all this mad stuff. You obviously see the New Babylonians don't give a fuck about you. We said this in the last episode. They don't care that y'all are kids. They're just like, oh, they told you you're able bodied, you can fight. Especially those three at the top, because you got, you got Governor Byrd, who is kind of looking this way and looking this way and making a decision that's kind of sort of down the middle. You have Novias who has no idea what the fuck she's doing, but she acts like it. You got Pearly, who knows what he should be doing, but he's not doing it because he's too scared to speak out. Like, dude, grow a pair please. Please.

13:04 It's that whole group, that whole new Babylonian group irks me to no end. That's probably going to be my saying for the next 5 episodes. That group irks me because going back to what you said, Michelle, how is it that you have these positions if you don't know what you're doing? Because I was like, how in the world did Hurley end up being Colonel? How did he end up being in new the, the, the law enforcement anyway? Because when I think about it, that wasn't his trade. But of course, you're in a new world. A lot of people who probably didn't, you know, a lot of people are doing things that they didn't do before.

13:45 Y'all needed a law enforcement group. OK, so y'all got one and he just got the promotion because he supposedly killed me. Again, I I get it. But again, the fact that you don't know something as simple as these people are going to be prepared for anybody who comes to try to steal their shit. The fact that you don't already know that before Maggie tells you and then after she tells you and she makes sense when you go back and tell them about and they say, well, what do you think we should do? Well, I agree with her, but I think we should go ahead and attack now to to ruin the element of surprise. Ain't no element of surprise for anyone. But y'all, I was just like, I don't know who your, I don't know who your scouts are that you have, you know, surveying the land. Y'all thinking, oh, we're going to come up on the backside of the island, we should be safe then. You really think they're going to leave any part of that island unprotected?

14:48 Right, That's that. That's why it doesn't make sense what they did. And not even this. Try to listen to her right? Not even saying that that New Babylon would come for their methane or anything else. Trying to keep people off of it. Period, period. You think that at some point they prepared that some somebody, we don't know who gonna show up, but someone's gonna show up. And when someone shows up even cause like even with the bombs on the buoys, even if we not watching out, we gonna know the bomb went off. It's gonna, it's, it's gonna, it's gonna signal us to. Something it's gonna signal somebody is crossing. Somebody near, somebody close somebody even if it don't destroy the ship because like even though they hit the buoy and it didn't, you know, they still had the soda bombs, but the buoy was enough for you to say, oh, oh, somebody had to go.

15:41 Right, so. Right. You don't think they've had all this time to do that around the entire island? This ain't new to them. And then she talking about Oh well stop the engines and drop anchor, we should be fine. It's like no, because now they know where you are. Exactly why they sent. The bomb, the the, the missiles, the the the very. Walker Missiles. What I say you have to you. You don't have to like the Croat, but you have to admire his mind. Yeah, because he lets nothing go to waste. He was like, OK, we're gonna take the methane from this one, and then we're gonna take the body and we gonna do this and we're gonna put some stuff on it and we gonna pack it with this and then we gonna put.

16:31 You have to admire it again. This man has been on this island for 20 years. He knows how to protect the island. There's a reason why nobody makes who gets on the island comes off. Except for who? Maggie. Maggie Hurley and Herschel and and Jenny because of what? Maggie right and and because of Megan. But yes. So the fact that y'all are not listening to her while she's telling you why everything you are doing is wrong, when those bombs start hitting and people start dying, I was like, Oh well what y'all having for dinner tonight 'cause at this point you deserve it. And then you got like I said, Milton 2 point O you got him up on the thing. Trying to again spot old.

17:17 Can you imagine? This is where millions of workers, this is how they got to work and then next thing you know you're puking your guts out. Dude, just just just shut up and just enjoy the ride. Stop trying to tell people about stuff they don't really care about anymore. Because. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. Nobody cares. But I, I tell you, they made me so mad. Like literally from the beginning when they showed the boat, I was just like, really? You guys think this is the best way to get across? Like at this point, more impressed with the fact that Jenny found a cooler and rolled, rolled herself across because she was like, OK, nobody gonna be thinking about this.

18:02 Ain't nobody gonna be looking for me. I'm just a spare. No one would even. It was a miracle she survived that, but OK. Right. But she she was just a speck. No lights, no nothing similar. But you wouldn't. But you wouldn't be able to really see her, right? You know, but a. Whole boat with lights and loud engines, right? And keep talking, even the little boat, Maggie. Took across didn't do all that. Not right I. That's why they should have had like a different, they should have a couple of plans, but that's. Why? That's what Maggie told me. Y'all about to take this? This. This what we. Right, right. This right here.

18:43 This right here. You may as well set off fireworks and be like, hey, we don't know what. Well, I mean, they did once they walked, once they ran into them boys, but it it was so even while they were on the way, once Pearly got down there to the to the the room where they're steering, Novias kept looking at him with this weird look like I'm a prove you wrong. I'm a prove you wrong. And I was like, just can the bomb hit her first? Because again, I just do not like that character. She is Oh my God, like, Oh my God.

19:25 I just, oh, I can't, I can't, I can't with her. And the fact that she survived, I'm just like. Of course she did. 'Cause she gotta aggravate us for the next 4 episodes. Absolutely. What could it with that? But I mean, just all the people on that that ship or, I don't know, the girl who came downstairs and saw Maggie and Herschel and lock up and Maggie was like, look, can you let us? Who was her point? Why did she even come down there? You wouldn't go help. To run away. Maybe she but, but that wasn't the right room, because if anything happened like it like like it did, if they didn't sink the ship, chances are you have walkers on the ship now.

20:16 Downstairs in the Brig is the last place you want to because there's only one way in and one way out. Yeah. So I don't know what she was thinking. She could have let Maggie go, but she got scared and ran off. Oh, I guess to give Jenny her oh, I'm gonna come save you moment. But it's just like, was this one of the new Babylonian people, 'cause I'm pretty sure she wasn't one of Maggie's people. People wasn't gonna leave her. No, they wouldn't. Yeah, they would know. They would know what to do, yeah. But the fact that they're, they were doing all of that and then when Maggie comes in and she's trying to tell them, look, y'all are being dumb.

20:58 I, I'm telling y'all what y'all need to do. And Novias is not even listening to her. Oh, we saw that you were deserting and that's why you were being followed in the 1st place. Maggie was like, I wasn't like, where the hell am I going to go with all my people here? Like Maggie's a different breed. She's not she. Already know I'm not leaving them. This is the same woman who fought so that 20 people wouldn't have to go. She's the reason why there's only 50 there and not 70. But then Novaya starts doing all of this other stuff. Oh, that, you know, we, we can hang you for that, man. It was like, like, really? This, this what you worried? Like I just told you, your plan is about to fail and this is what you worried about hanging me?

21:40 Oh, no, not just you. It's the other 20 people starting with that one. I was like, Maggie, if you don't hit this bitch now, I'm going to come through the TV and do it for you. So when she punched her, I got such satisfaction. I did too, but. She should have. She should have knocked her out. She should have knocked her out. She could have. I mean, she would have been a little, a little bit more trouble, but I think Maggie could have handled whatever would have came. Yeah, but I, I tell you, that chick there and she's like, oh, lock him up, lock him up too and blah, blah, blah. And Pearly is like, what is this going to solve Pearly? She didn't pay no attention to you. Like, she's a she's a, she's a major. You're a Colonel.

22:23 Isn't she supposed to be following your orders? I need Pearly to grow a pair. Like seriously. But we knew. We knew. He was a bitch first season. So yeah, I know that, but still it's. Yeah, but it's getting worse. It's getting worse. Yeah, 'cause you ain't saying nothing about right Borrow. Maggie's if you need to, but I need you to get a pair. Not borrow Maggie. 'S I mean, I'm just saying she probably she got. Them. She's got what was it Negan called them? Beach ball sized lady nuts. Maggie didn't have them. That was Sasha. I I know, but that that was his time for it. Oh, yes, Maggie got him. Yeah, she definitely does. But I mean, the fact that they end up getting bombed, they make it to the island safely. Well, no, let me go even before that, because there was another thing that was bothering me.

23:16 You guys are planning an attack on an island that you you know, you claim you're on the back half of the island when where supposedly nobody is watching and you guys are safe. Y'all got tents staked up like y'all on a camping trip. Just what? Y'all got that? Y'all got there in y'all cars that use the gas. You got vehicles on the dock, you got tents on the dock, you got people walking around on the dock. Like none of this would be noticeable to anybody with a pair of binoculars. And even without the binoculars, y'all can look and say something right about that over there.

24:00 I don't remember all of that being there. And then someone set the tires on fire. OK, so supposedly that is a signal that the Croat uses. And the Croat did say something when he was talking to the diamond. He said, Oh yeah, we've had a signal that they are on the move. So that definitely could have been somebody on their side, which we're going to get to in a minute 'cause I'm not ready to go there yet. We got to talk about the Negan stuff first. So again, OK, if anybody up to this point is still doubting that Negan is not savior Negan, I'ma say it again. Y'all not paying attention.

24:45 Because he makes it very clear from his facial expressions, from his body language, from the way that he is responding to the Dhamma and the Croat that he doesn't want to be there. He doesn't want to be doing what he's doing. He just wants to be left alone. The fact that the episode started with him sitting in his prison cell tells you everything. He's looking down at those roaches on the ground. Like I would rather be in here eating these roaches than doing what I'm doing now. But the problem is y'all keep bringing his family up and again Negan ain't the one. If anything, the Croats story that he told to Victor when they were preparing, when he was talking about, yeah, in the old days when we were at Sanctuary, we had this group of savages come.

25:34 They tried to get us to give them all their provisions. And we're thinking Negan is going to like, you know, attack. And Negan welcomes them and he gives them a fee. So we're all looking at him like, what the fuck? And then we find out what he does, which is he trades the meat for the visitors to Walker. me and I just sat here in my head, just tainted, I'm screaming, tainted me the whole time and telling their story. But he talks about. Yeah. One thing that that we learned is that Negan always protects his own. And I was like, if you are not paying attention to your own words right now, Mr. Sir, Negan always protects his own.

26:15 And you guys are not his own. Right and even. Doing this probably just until he lays eyes on Annie and Joshua, once he sees that they are there, once he sees that they are safe. And I, I, I got to believe now that they are going to bring them to the show because she's now mentioned them twice. So the moment he lays eyes on them and sees that they're OK, it's about to be game on. *** is going to be like, Oh no, bitch like Andy, like Andy is not a weak woman, right? You can see. Your mic a little bit more. Oh, Andy is not a weak woman. No, so she is not even if they did take her, they took her under very much duress 'cause, you know, she was fighting and she got a baby. All that that we did in the end of The Walking Dead to protect that baby.

27:05 Oh, baby, she another Maggie. She she's not about to. She ain't go quite go. She's not going to go quietly until the night. No, but then they they also not realizing and telling that story about Negan like he has a plan. Right. So he's thinking of something else that's gonna occur instead of what y'all want to occur. Now he's doing what he has to do again to make sure his family is protected. He's like, yeah, but he got he got something behind. He had some ideas doing on what he going to do afterwards. Because the moment she mentioned Annie and Joshua, you know, the Croat was giving his plan.

27:46 And she's just looking at him like, OK, whatever. Oh, this is the other thing. I think the Dhamma got a thing for Negan because she acts like a fucking school girl when she's talking to him. And I'm just like, EW, this is creepy, but OK. But you know, when the crow ad is sitting there giving his plans and she's just looking at him like, well, what do you think Negan? And Negan is just like, I have no opinion. And then she makes the mention, oh, or are you so preoccupied with the imminent, you know, reunion of your family? And then he was like, OK, bitch, you won't. OK. So yeah, let me tell you, his plan is a good plan. But this is what we need to do. We need to do this, We need to do that.

28:27 We need to do this. We need to do that. And we need to make sure that the other teams on this island who are not playing nice right now, we need to make them understand that we are the ones in charge, blah, blah, blah. Like he spouted all of this off so you know what was there in his head? So the fact that y'all keep antagonizing this man, y'all want it because y'all heard of his cruelty and what he does to protect his people. The fact that y'all keep pushing that red button that says do not touch, y'all bout to fuck around and find out. And I'm, I'm, I'm here for it. I'm ready for it.

29:08 Because this Dhamma chick again, I don't understand how she's in charge. You don't really do anything except for like you intimidate people. And then you did the thing with with Victor the violinist, because you realize that Victor was a soft spot for Negan because Victor was the one who at the beginning of the episode comes in while Negan is in his prison. And I think he understand Megan's frame of mind. So he gives him a story about his dad. And when he was forced to learn to play the violin, he runs off all these composers that he's like, they're OK, they're OK, this is the worst. But then, you know, Bach, as long as I could concentrate on Bach, I could do what needed to be done. And I think he was telling me again, find that one thing that you can concentrate on to make all of the rest of this bearable.

30:01 And I think Megan appreciated that. Absolutely. So when she brings him in, because when Megan is the one giving the orders to fire the missiles, he has the binoculars or he has the telescope, he sees Herschel on the boat, and that throws him for a minute. He tells them to hold off on, you know, doing more missiles. Victor automatically assumes he's like, OK, he sees, you know, I think from the way he looks at Megan, he's like, OK, he knows somebody on there. The Croat definitely looked at him. Was like, oh, he's trying to protect somebody. So what does the Croat do? He runs to tell Mommy. Tell runs to tell mommy.

30:42 And then the Dhamma brings in Victor and she gives this little speech and you know, Negan already knows. Once Victor walks in, he's like, oh shit, we're in trouble. OK, she's about to try and make an example. OK, play something for us. I you know, I don't want to take away from art, blah blah blah, blah, blah. So he plays something beautifully. And then what did she say? She said some stupid shit about Bach wanting to bring things back. She's like, well, I don't want to go back. And then she stabs him in the neck. I'm like, aren't you the same person who lives in a museum with all of the old art, you listening to old music and you, you literally are, are trying to preserve certain things.

31:27 And then you come with that speech and you kill Victor. And then you make Negan even more pissed. Then you go to the Croat. So you, you want Megan to know that it came from the Croat. Oh, you did such a good job. And then you, you look at her and it's almost like you don't see her face because her hair's in the way, but she's trying to steer herself to give him that little kiss on the head. I was like, you know what, this bitch got to die. I just don't understand why she is the person that's in charge because what she did, anybody could do that any of the people that's there could do. That, but it has to be somebody that's willing to stand up to her.

32:10 Right. We need right, but we also need for them to do like a back story so we can see 'cause I'm like with like we literally can just like kill her in her sleep or she gone die of national causes in a couple of days. I mean like. Right, because she's one, she she's old. She's old and frail. OK, yeah, she still has her mental faculties. And she, I I don't know, maybe her, I don't know if I want to say charisma because I honestly don't see it, but something about her commands respect. Yeah, 'cause. Even when in the meeting she say she she was like sitting back in the cut. Waiting for me I need the I need the back story episode 'cause I 'cause I don't get it, you know I mean, if we want to be honest, I I wouldn't mind seeing Lucille have a go at her I mean that I I just don't understand it but.

33:15 I think that's something that they, they, we, at some point they're going to have to let us in on it because we can't continue to question why everyone or not even everyone, why the Croat is blindly following her. You're right. You know what I mean? If you look at it, the Croat, even though he he kind of crazy, but he's a little more he he is a little more, I guess you would say, powerful than she is in that he has so much knowledge. And but he is that type of person that we found based on Nikki. He's always seeking approval.

33:58 So he can't be a leader because he's always looking to somebody to be like, did I do good? Is this what you wanted? Is it, you know what I mean? He's like a little lap dog. But if he I think if he applied himself, he could be a, a, a pretty good villain if he wasn't such like a, a, a a a do boy like a child. Yeah, like a He's very childlike. And I, I do realize that probably we had something to do with the trauma that, that he dealt with because we, you know, in the first season, we found out about his family and about what happened to them. And, you know, Megan kind of saved him from I, I don't know, this dismal life after all of that.

34:39 So he latched on to Megan. And then when he was thrown out from Megan, he wandered a little bit. And I don't know how the Dhamma found him or how he found her. I don't know what made him go to Manhattan in the 1st place, but it's probably because she took him in and she allowed him to do what he needed to do or what he wanted to do with no restrictions. So I can get that, you know, it's like, I don't know, trauma bonding to the NTH degree. But like you said, he could be the main villain because before we even knew she existed, we thought he was the the villain. We thought he was the one in charge.

35:19 And he came across that way. And it's like now he comes across, like you said, like a child seeking approval. And it's kind of weird for his character because I, I actually preferred him the other way. But I don't know, his character is just he doesn't read social cues very well because the whole time you're sitting here talking to *** *** like every time he says Nigga's name, I know Negan is visually imagining hitting him across the head with, with Lucille, swear to God, every time he says Megan or like, even when they first got to the museum, he was like, ah, Lucille looks a little thirsty, doesn't she? And *** looked at him like, if you don't shut up, talk to me. And kept going up the stairs, like he keeps saying these things like he's trying to prod the old Negan out, the one that was his buddy back then.

36:16 And he obviously is not really paying attention to the fact that Negan just does not. He ain't for this shit. He's only he don't. Want. To even be there, right? He's only doing this because y'all keep bringing his family into it. Once he lays eyes on Annie and Joshua, it's going to be game over and he will probably start with the Croat because the Croat is the whole reason why he's in this in the 1st place. The Croat is the one that came looking for him in the bricks. The one you know, he's the one. Yeah, I did their whole dynamic in in that particular facility because like you said, all of those people who are guarding things, who have the guns that they could easily overthrow her because what does she do?

37:02 She sits in her room, she listens to music, she looks at weird, grotesque art and she talks about things as if she. I I don't know. I don't know what the appeal is of this woman. I just don't see it. It's like when you when you can't even give me a reason to like her. I I'm bored by her already. Kill, kill her already put the Croat back into. She's going to now at this point, especially, especially since she killed Victor, especially because. Yeah, Megan in, in, in this. Megan was, I mean, not Megan.

37:48 Victor was a little hope of light for Victor. I mean, Victor was a little whole polite for Megan. Right. So I mean, aside from even him telling him the story, right? So like even aside from telling him the story, remember all the time he was locked up, he was playing a violin for him and you know, y'all were having conversations. So it's like to have somebody who understand what you going through and then you killed his Mama for no reason. Like, at least Megan needed a reason to kill people, you know I'm me and at least had a cold, you know what I'm saying? So he wasn't. It. Went out to that outpost now let's not get started on that part, no.

38:30 No, no. But I'm just saying for. Yeah, that was a. Reason. If you don't fuck with me, I ain't fucking with you. So he really had no reason. And now the fact that you even killed the one person who had like a kin, not a kinship, but like, it's kind of like a kinship with who understood being a prisoner. And I really don't want to do this. I'm being forced into a situation that I don't want to do. But at least there's somebody who who kind of get it. Yeah. And then for Croat to be a bitch and run and tell because you watching *** so God damn hard. You want to be *** and friends so bad, he'll want you. Yeah. He do not want you.

39:10 And the fact that even him and Victor just like have this, you know, looking at, you know, not speaking, but acknowledging we know what's going on and like that non verbal shorthand between them. Yeah. And so you mad and you ran a toll, right, Because what was the the thing? Well, I'm sorry, This is I think you Steven asked me why he ain't do it, why you ran straight to you know what I'm saying? He could've told you. I saw a kid. You know how to tell you which kid, But because. But that's the thing Crow had no women and kids thinking, ain't I'm not doing. Yep, he he should know that. So for me to see a kid, let me let the kid get clear. Right, right.

39:56 But then. They don't get theirs. That's all I'm saying. They don't get theirs. If you really want to do, you could have told which kid because the Dahmer would have been like, oh, OK, you saved my you saved my child because she had some kind of strange connection to, to Herschel. So you could have done that. But the whole thing when she talked about the fact that Victor was a violinist, Oh, yeah, I heard you have a violin hit somewhere. You know, the Croat told that too, because, you know, our last episode. So when she started saying that, I was like, oh, she's about to do the whole thing where she's going to crush his fingers or she's going to break his fingers. I thought that I didn't think she was going to kill him because because why? Why would she kill him?

40:39 All all he did was follow directions. You put Negan in charge. So if Negan says wait, why would he question that? No, it wasn't. It wasn't the weight. If you look and go back to that when they were on KOAT saw the the non verbal communication between them two. Yeah. So it, it, it wasn't the weight, it was the, you know. It was. Are you sure? Yeah. Yeah. And that's called jealousy. So that wasn't he do what absolutely happen. So of course. He going to run till. Because he knew what was going to happen. Yeah. And she want to make sure she keep nigging and check that at any moment I can kill anybody around you.

41:21 You know what I I'm I'm waiting for her to get her come up. If she is not dead by the end of this season, I'm going to be mad. I'm going to be mad. I'm be like, I do not want to see the third season with this bitch in it. I don't. She without a back story like we need more. They're gonna have to tell us something. They got they got to cause 'cause she bores me. She really does. I just every time she's on the screen, I'm like, oh God, do I have to? OK, what are what are we doing today? But they but we talked about this last week. It's they need to do more period. Yeah, I need the care. Yeah. I don't really care. And and that's the, you know, I was thinking about. So we try not we, we try not to compare the shows because the shows are all doing their individual thing, but they are all Walking Dead shows, which means that there should be a thread of continuity with certain things. One of the things that the show did very well with the main show, and I will say the ones who live and with Daryl Dixon, you gave us these secondary groups of characters that we cared about for one reason or the other. They may have gotten on our nerves, but we cared about what happened with them.

42:36 Like like in Darrell Dixon, Isabel was kind of a weird thing because like I said, it seemed like they kept trying to pair them off. And I'm like, I don't need Darrell to have a love interest. I need Darrell to have a friend. OK, once once they started moving on, like, OK, this direction they want to go in, fine. But then when they killed her, we felt that, you know. Yeah. With the ones who live Nat, that's all I'm going to say. 1 episode and made us care so deeply for this character that it felt like we had been gut punched when he died with Dead City. You are not really giving me that in these secondary characters. Maybe the Croat because first season he was interesting, but in this season, like like you said, he's a he's a lap dog and it just takes a lot of the interest out of that character. I don't care about the Dhamma.

43:35 I obviously don't care about the New Babylonians. I mean. So it's like who? Are we supposed to care about Hershel? We care about just because we literally have followed his story from the beginning. He's still getting on my nerves. Doing dumb shit like like setting a fire signal so that they will know that they're coming because you're thinking oh OK, well maybe if I set the signal. You think Herschel did it? That's why Maggie was looking at the book at when he was wrapping up the lady's leg with the blue bandage, because there was a blue bandage on that, on those tires. OK, yeah, I think Herschel did that because Herschel knew the signal.

44:20 I don't know what the Again, we don't know what he and the Dhamma discussed. We know that he does seem to have some kind of weird link to her, so maybe it was him trying to go back over there or maybe it was OK if I set this fire. We know that's what this means, that the somebody's signaling to the Croat. Maybe once mom goes and tells them that they will stop what they're doing and they will turn around. I'm thinking that's what he wanted to happen. He just wanted them to be able to go home. And then everything got so messed up because Novias threatened him. Maggie Punch Novias, they ended up in the Brig. That's why he was so, so numb when he was down there, cuz she was one. She was fussing at him because she was like, This is why I didn't want you to come.

45:09 Herschel thought he was going to come and save the day and get them all back home and now you've put them in more trouble. And then when Maggie sees the the scar for the whatever that is and the look of horror on her face because she was like, he's the reason all these people are dead now. Technically, if you think about it, his actions killed all of them. It put them all on that island now and they're all in danger. They don't have the army that they had. They don't have their weapons. They are literally Walker bait now. Yeah. And that was her realizing. I think that was the other thing. That's why you see Herschel kind of with the change of heart, like when they were getting ready to lose the light, the lifeboat, and she told Jenny to do it.

45:57 And he was like, she's my mom. Go check on the others. Because again, in last episode, they had that argument because Maggie didn't want Jenny to come. And Jenny was like, you're not my mom, OK? Herschel's like, OK, you don't want her to be your mom. Bet you let me help her. You go do the other stuff. Because I think Hersch in Herschel's mind, trying to make sure his mom is safe, he's like, I don't want her to be here. I don't you know, he, he's been saying the whole time, what why does it have to be you? Why do you have to go this that another Herschel thought he was coming to save the day and he actually made things worse, which is why he had that little confession when when he sat there. And that's why Maggie was looking so horrified the whole time he was talking. He was like, I messed things up.

46:42 I'm so sorry, mom. I'm sorry for everything from the beginning. I love you because he realized he could have got his mom killed. And I think I think at that moment, he was just kind of like, wow, I really fucked up. And then Maggie's sitting there thinking like, oh, wow, he really fucked up. And probably thinking about herself also fucking up because if she hadn't volunteered to go there, then none of this would happen. So it's just kind of like that horrible realization of what happened. But yeah, when when I saw her looking at him when he was bandaging, bandaging the lady's leg, it's just like she's just looking and it's like all of a sudden something click, her face just went and you see the tears in her eyes.

47:28 I was like, yeah, this is going to be a thing. Because at this point, again, he could have been doing that really just to save them so that they could turn around and go home, or he could have been signaling so that they would come and find him and he goes back to the Dhamma. We don't know what what happened with them. I'm pretty sure she probably brainwashed him in some way. But now it's, it's just one of those things where now you've got you're on the island and if you saw the preview for next week, you do see that him and the Dhamma are going to be in a room together. So at some point she finds out he's there. Now, whether it's because he went to go look for her or she just had the Croat happens to find him, I don't know. But yeah, I think Herschel is.

48:20 I think I saw a comment somewhere that says they think they're about to push Herschel to behave closer to his comic book counterpart, which means we're about to get an asshole Herschel. So I'm like, OK, that might make things a little bit more. Oh my God. I mean, because at this point, asshole Herschel has to be more interesting than Adama, right? And maybe he's the one that gets rid of Novaeus. I don't know. But it it this whole thing, this whole episode was just, it was just crazy, yes. Oh wait, one question. Why Jenny got a gun? Probably because she I'm thinking. You think it's funny?

49:06 Yeah, I'm thinking she's probably still holding on to that whole I killed your father thing, and she thinks she's going to come to New York and kill him. And again, I'm going to reiterate, I don't think he killed her father, or if he did kill her father, I don't think he gave her the full details. Because if he killed her father, chances are it's because his father was part of that group that that attacked Annie. Because other than that, Negan was trying to live on the straight and narrow. So I, I don't know, but I need Jenny to understand too. This ain't, this ain't Negan's first rodeo. I mean, I, I get it that he may not do anything to her because when she is a kid too, she did become kind of like a daughter figure to him. So I don't think he would do anything against her. He probably would even let her be like, OK, if you gonna shoot me, just just shoot me.

50:04 He may do that. We already know he's probably expecting that's gonna happen with him and Herschel at some point. But if somebody else finds her trying to do that, like let's say the Croat, the wannabe bestie, he's not gonna have any qualms about doing that to a child because he's already done that before to someone that. And the fact that they know that there's a child coming. Right. Because if if he tells them that there is a child coming, the fact that he did hesitate that long, if they can put and I don't know if they actually can do this because nothing that we've seen from them so far infers this. But if they can put two and two together, they might be able to guess that it's either Jenny or Herschel that he saw. But they don't know about Jenny.

51:02 They don't. They don't know about Jenny. Cur, Curly. Curly know about Jenny? You're. Never. Jenny never made it. I don't think they do. They don't know about Jenny. OK. Jenny never made it so hmm. Only one that knows about Jenny is Everybody in the Bricks and Megan. So maybe, look, maybe Jenny's not coming to kill *** maybe she's coming to kill the Croat, maybe she's, I don't know. About him, well, I mean, unless Herschel said anything that, you know, they really don't have information on them. On the Croat, yeah, she would. She probably would have heard it from Maggie. And then of course, that's all they're talking about right there with the New Babylonians.

51:43 So yeah, I'm sure she knows something. And we all, we already know Jenny, she likes to listen when when it's not her business. So yeah. Go sit down somewhere, Jimmy. But you know what? She's the only one that has a weapon at this point, so let's just. We can use her for later. Excuse her for a minute, let's see what she's planning on doing. Because I'm going to kill anybody on that end. Oh, OK. I, I can be, can be good with that. Now she's coming for Negan. I'm a need a little bit more elaboration on that back story because I don't think he would have just killed her father just to kill her father that again, we've talked about this before. Megan doesn't kill people just to kill people. Something had to have happened.

52:30 Maybe the father got attacked by the same type of people. Maybe the father was already close to dead and Megan put him out as I just don't think that he would have just randomly saw a guy and and just killed him because nothing that we know about his character shows that he would do that. There's always a reason for his killing. Even when he was being savior Dick, you know, leader, he always gave people a choice. OK, you can either come live with us or, you know, whatever. But it was, it was basically to keep all the other people alive, not just the people we saw. There were women and children in the sanctuary that we only saw every once in a while, but he was trying to keep everybody alive. You know that that was that whole little power trip that kind of got to his head where he forgot he was supposed to be acting a part where he actually started acting like a Dick. But I mean, if you see him now, you see this is not the person that he wants to be.

53:34 But y'all gonna push him and he. Gonna be the person y'all don't want to see. Right. Because even though you you're going to push him to a point where he's not even the old Negan, you push the. New and improved Negan. That part you push up. To a point where he gonna be like I he wish. Why they're gonna like it. But they already have. They already have pushed him. I say that he's absolutely already. Because you say his face? What? She did tonight, right? What she did tonight just was like, OK, killing. Victor even after he was. I just saw a kid. You ain't got to do nothing to him.

54:15 This is between this I'm I'm the one. Right. And you still did it. But you know, also with her that to to meet to give my opinion. She think that's a sign of weakness because why are you giving a fuck about this mother fucker? You know what I mean? We especially, especially when she has been trying everything for a year. He has not been responsive. That's what she said to Victor. She was like, oh, OK, he'll let you in. That's something rare. That's something he doesn't do and are. You mad? That's not. True, that whole jealousy thing, but again, there's. A certain way you have to approach a man like me and what you're doing is not it.

55:02 It would have been a way easier way to get him to do what you need him to do. This ain't it. Kidnapping and hunting him down and now you don't took his wife and. Yeah, but see the problem? The problem is, and I think I saw Jeffrey Dean Morgan say this in a in an interview somewhere, that old Negan that the Croat knew that was a man who was acting, who was doing what he needed to do to survive and to make sure that he was not at anybody else's mercy ever again after what happened to his wife because of those people capturing him, keeping him captive. And then, you know, all that other stuff, he said. I'm not going to be in a position where anybody puts me like that again.

55:53 You understand? When he was with the Alexandrians and they had him locked up, you saw how he was acting. He didn't want to be there. He didn't want to be locked up. He was. He basically was like, kill me. I can't do this. He doesn't like, he doesn't like not being in control. But I think he also learned some lessons when he was locked up with the Alexandras, when he was living among them, when he was fighting with them. You know, there are other ways to do things and still remain powerful.

56:34 There are other ways to do things and still keep your people safe. But they they not doing that. They, I think the Croat romanticized how Megan was not taking into full account that Megan was still a person who had boundaries and there were still things that he wasn't going to do being Megan or not. He's still Megan. Being Megan still had a level of respect for women and children. You know what I'm saying? I mean, exactly. Whereas the crow at and and dama is like do what we say #1 you never going to get Megan to kneel to say I am Megan. *** was like, Nope, I'm gonna go sit in this.

57:19 I'm gonna go sit in this cell and eat cockroaches for a year before I do what you want. Me. To and if they they say. I have been put out of better places. Right. Right. If they hadn't found Annie and Joshua, I think he would still be sitting in that cell refusing to do whatever. Yep. So we all know that. So yeah, Maggie and them are on the island now. We found out that Herschel anyway, so now we just got to see what's going to happen because at some point these two groups are going to meet up together. Now I don't know what Novias is good for, aside from running off at the mouth.

58:04 She has no. Hopefully she can fight. We'll see, but she has no weapons. She she does seem like she has a little bit of a loss of confidence because like Pearly told her, she's right. Everything that she said the whole time was right. That's a hard lesson to swallow and to be humbled by when you're looking at most of the people you brought on this trip. Blow the fuck? Up come to you as walkers and the other half are in the in in the the water. Don't forget there's walkers in the water.

58:45 Don't forget there's walkers in the water. Yeah, so I I don't know she, I don't know she can die next episode for all I care. I really don't. And, and going back to what we were saying about Dead City, they keep introducing us to these characters that we really just we don't get a chance to connect about to connect with and we just really don't care about. They did this in the first season too. With that I I forgot what the name of the group. Was I did too and even the couple who was pregnant. That killed everybody off in the first season. Everybody. Right, everybody, by the time you get ready to care for them in the sixth episode, you find out she's pregnant. Oh, OK.

59:31 Then you find out the dude is the reason why y'all are there in the 1st place. He's the reason why most of your people are dead. And then they die. You just kind of like, OK, OK, so I I don't know what they're doing. I need some characters to care about. I started to care a little bit about victim, but I was like, oh, he gonna end up dead just because Megan. Cares about. He had hope. He had hope. You know, they kill anybody with hope. No hope. No, hope is not hopelessness. You know what? I do not need you mimicking Anthony's model. They had hope. No, so I don't know. I, I just, I don't know, like Maggie is I, I would say this Maggie is getting on my nerves less so far in this show, but we also haven't seen her with me yet, so that could change. Right.

1:00:28 And she's actually has done solid things, things that are reasonable except for going back to the Commonwealth, but that's we don't need to talk about that last week, but it. Ended before it started. Followed in this episode of What You Supposed to be Doing? So yeah, everyone else is dumb. Right, like I need them to listen to her. I need, I need the next time Novias opens her mouth to try to give an order. I need all of them to look at her and say fuck. She going to listen? To her going. To be bitten by a Walker or she'll be shot or thrown off a building. I mean, she could already have an injury because you know that, that explosion. Right, I'm just wondering how this is going to happen. At at this point I don't I I really would like to see Maggie kill her though.

1:01:20 I really would. It's the law. You don't have to arrest her. It's the law, really. The law all the way out here. Girl, really? Come on if. You if you don't let, let. Me know you're trying to. Get this power here. So I'm kind of confused. You did threaten her kid. I'm confused. Yeah, it's. OK, so again, reiterating what we learned in this episode or what we carried over from the first episode, we don't care about the New Babylonians. We don't really care about the Dom and her people. Nope. Yeah, That that's that's pretty much par for the course so far. Season 2. Maggie, people. She's supposed Maggie Herschel. And and Jenny.

1:02:03 Yep, and Negan 4. Are you not in? Jenny just 'cause she a teen Jenny still. Right. And you know what? And Jenny has the trauma. She has the. Trauma, I mean. She's just going to be really, I don't care, but since she's a teen, I'm going to care for. Yeah, and plus I need, I need to see like I need to see her and Negan together again to get the full story of what happened because y'all know me. I'm all about the background story. I need to understand characters motivations. And again, I just don't see Megan just randomly killing her dad for no reason and then killing her dad and then coming coming for her or, you know, allowing her to tag along with him knowing that he just does not seem that type. Like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna carry a living reminder of the bullshit I did.

1:02:53 No, it there had to be a different reason. And I would like to hear it. So we're going to continue talking about this show, but also as a reminder, ATL Comic Convention is not next weekend, but the weekend after the 18th, 19th and 20th. We will be presenting panels at ATL Comic Convention about the ones who live, Daryl Dixon. And we will continue our what if Maggie Rhee was the villain, the next TWD villain, which I don't know if I feel that with the way they're taking her character this season.

1:03:36 So maybe that'll change. We're also going to do to Anita Smith panel. So if you are in Atlanta that weekend, please come to our panels. If you check out our blog on phantomhybrid.com, you will see our full schedule. We are doing 6 panels all together. We'll also be talking about Interview with the Vampire Season 2. That'll be me and Michelle. And then me, Michelle, and Anthony will be talking about The Last of Us Season 2. So if you're in Atlanta, come say hi. Let us know. But unless you guys have any final thoughts about this episode? Listen to Maggie. Right, and on that note, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid.

1:04:22 You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.