The Wheel of Time Season 3 Episode 3 - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #350

0:25 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I'm here with Anthony and we are discussing season 3, Episode 3 of the Wheel of Time series. And unfortunately, Mike is not joining us tonight because he's off recording a panel for one of the Dragon contracts. That's a valid excuse. It's a valid excuse and I would say I will speak for him when it comes to the Matt part of this segment because I know that he was hyped at the end of this episode when Matt got his other shining moments. So Mike, we representing you. But anyway, let's start this off. So I think when we discussed episode 2, I don't think Mike was fully aware that he was kind of calling it right when he said that Gabriel was probably a forsaken.

1:21 I mean, you know, I knew because we had already seen the episode, but. Well, yeah, but even when, even before, when I watched episode and I knew you hadn't watched it yet, I wanted to tell you so bad. I was like, Oh, my God, they did it because, you know, we all know already the book readers, we already already know. And they do a good job of, of dropping a few little things that Mike picked up on. Like it just seemed a little weird that Leanna was like, Lord Developers was like, oh, Lord Gabriel. Yeah. And even when Elaine came up to him, she was just like Gabriel.

2:04 And I was like, what was this weird before I, you know, before all of that, What was that weird pause? And it just seemed, it just seemed kind of weird for those two, especially because of, like I said, Leanna is one of the probably one of the most Immaculate people on this show, not just in her manner of dress, but just the way she presents herself. Like she makes no mistakes. So for her to do that in front of the hall, it was kind of like, OK, maybe not quite a red flag. It might have been like a pink flag, like somewhere in between, just kind of like, hmm, OK, something's not right about that. And then when Elaine did it, it was weird. But I think the interesting thing about all of that is when. So when he is presented to Salon, Salon is like, off the bat, she was like, Lord Gabriel, it's such a pleasure to see you as always.

2:59 And I was like, wow, is she really that susceptible to compulsion? Yeah, again, they don't have a, they don't have a defense to it. They don't even know how to do it. I don't. They don't even know what it is. Yeah, and I get that part, but I. Think. I think the thing for me is the fact that Liana and Elaine both hesitated before addressing him and Salon was just kind of like you doing like there was no, there was no moment of who is this person? So I just wonder if that has if that might signal how strong or her how weak her mind may be towards compulsion as opposed to other people.

3:46 It it's probably more of a sign of the kind of personality you may have, because Leanna's personality is to be very stringent and strict and hard headed, right? Elaine is sort of the same way. Swan had already admitted that she had kind of gotten lackadaisical in her position. Right. So she probably not. Maybe a younger swan would probably be slightly resistant to it, but not this version. OK, she's So if if you were to if you were to tell me this or say that to me, I would like, I could buy that. I also don't want to put it past the writers for doing it just so they can plant the idea in our heads that something isn't right.

4:38 Yeah. And the other thing I was thinking was the other I guess kind of sort of explanation could be that what whatever he does for compulsion, like I'm going to assume that he's probably sending out his own weaves. But again, we can't see them. I was thinking that maybe when Leanna stumbled, he sent something out across the room like, OK, this is who I am and this is what y'all know about me. And maybe that's why Suwan didn't have a hesitation because Leanna spoke before Suan did. So at that point, whatever he was, he was still implanting. Yeah, it it it already kind of planted in her head. But either way, though, it was just it was really weird. But now we know the reason because he is one of the Forsaken.

5:26 And they confirmed that in the opening scene of this episode where you have land fair him and Samael was the other one. And it's interesting watching land Fear with these other two Forsaken because she very much seems in control of this situation when she's talking to them and when she's talking about Mogadian and she's telling them, OK, yeah, we need to kind of watch for her and Robin, which is Gabriel's Forsaken name. He was like, are we supposed to be scared of her? She was like, look, she is probably dangerous because what she's doing is she's kind of working her way up all the way to the top.

6:09 She'll probably, she said to Samuel, she said she'll probably start with you because you're the weakest of us all, and then she'll work her way up to me. And she used a term that I meant to write down. Nabeless. Yes. What is that? Nabeless is the title given to the the one the Dark One talks to their leader. So yes, Shamaya was the nablist. OK. Before he died or quote UN quote died and everybody. Keeps saying he died, Landfair says he died. Everybody else says he's died. I think he's dead. Well, the The Dark 1 hasn't named the new 1 yet. This is true.

6:57 This is true. And has already given them the ability to be immortal so. Yeah, but I find it interesting. So again, this is like a month after they have been set free. So this is where landfills like, oh, you have lipstick on your on your collar. You already have someone in your bed. You've only been free for a month. He was like, yeah, well, anybody who meets me and her talking about queen more gays, they think that we've been hopelessly in love for the past 10 years. And I was just like, wow. Because literally everybody like, what was it that Elaine said in the last episode?

7:37 The most the most well liked Prince, Queen Consort. Queen Consort. Yeah. So I was like, oh, OK, so they have their little powwow and they're talking about dynamics, about ho oh how we need to team up against Mogadian because she's going to come for us all and blah blah, blah, blah, blah. Then when Samael and Laffy or leave, who comes out the shadows? Softly, softly from the. Shadows but Mogadian and I was like this dude, he is playing all the angles and again she when she walks up to him and she's kind of like it's almost like she's trying to be childlike in her in her appearance and and the way she acts.

8:25 But there's something so sinister about her and it's just so, it's so disarming because when you look at her and she talks with a soft voice like this and da, da, da, da, da. And she kind of sings songs, a lot of her lines and just she comes across like she's innocent. But then all you have to do is look at her eyes. Her eyes are not. She is not there. No, she's. Not all there. And I was just like, OK, so. Please stop flickering with the shadows. She's, she's yeah, she's crazy. But we, we get, we get some pretty good exposition, though.

9:07 Like, you know, the last time we did this, we spend more time fighting each other, you know, and she already is Celine or I'm sorry, Lanfiere is already putting like wedges. She didn't invite Semiraj and Grendel to the meeting. Like what? What is that about? Like you, you. And of course, it was like Gabe was like, well, I'll just send them your regards and let them know where the plan is. And she's like, wait, what? Yeah, because what Samuel said something to him by you always prattling and talking to people. And Laffer was like ever the politician. And when he said that, he looked at, Samuel said, you know, because I'm always prattling with somebody else. So, but you see, he's he's playing, he's got his stuff, you know, he's got his little alliance with Lance, Fear and Samuel, and he got his alliance with Grendel and Samrage and he got his alliance with Morganian.

10:11 So he he playing all the sides. But like they said they they're trying to do, a couple of them were trying to do things differently than the last time because didn't work out for them. Yeah, and like Mogadian said, she said I don't want to spend another 3000 years in someone's cage. Yeah, she was like, you know, because I think was it Landfair or was it Raven who called her a coward? And she was like coward. He was like, well, you know, I had, you know, she also said you were smart. And she said, yeah, I have to be. I don't want to spend 3000 years in somebody else's cage. Yeah, like, yeah, this is going to be interesting to see how how that dynamic with the Forsaken happened. But let me ask you a question.

10:55 What is the pecking order for the for second in the books From the from least dangerous to most dangerous? In the books, well, that's hard. Well, of the ones who we're being presented with, because there are 13 total, but they're only bringing in eight for the show. OK. OK, so of the ones that we have, Ishmael was probably the most powerful #1 landfill will be #2 so he is as powerful as any man could be with the one power, and she is as powerful as any woman could be.

11:35 Yeah. OK. And then because how many? I still have hopes that Asmodian would be 1, but anyway. And then maybe Robin. OK. And then? Which that makes sense to me because if you're forming alliances with all of the other ones separately, you're probably smarter than the average person as far as you're using very tactical skills, as far as like, OK, let me not put all my eggs in one basket. Hold on. Let let me back up. Let me back up. OK, In the books it would be probably Ishmael, Lamphier, maybe Cimarrog, Grendel, Van Robin and Van Moghedian.

12:33 And where does Samayel fall in that? Him. Him. And in the book, he's probably right around, right around Robin. OK. So. But in the show, clearly Lamphere is 2, as she should be, and Meganian is the weakest, as she should be. OK, now here's the question additionally that I have. It seems to me as if we're missing 1 Forsaking because every time they talk about the Forsaken, even when Landfill is talking about the Forsaken, when she had conversations with Ishmael, when she's had conversations with Moraine, she always mentions 6.

13:22 They always mention six. So aside from Landfill, you have Raven, Samael, Mogadian, and then Grendel and the other one that you mentioned, there's one that they haven't mentioned yet. Who is that? It's probably Asmolian. OK. But I don't know because it's it's hard, it's hard to to figure it out because they're it's probably Asmodian, but that makes 7 and then landfill would make 8. OK. Right. So it's probably Asmodian or it could be the Madrid because there's there's another one who who really doesn't show up in the book until the end.

14:10 And one of the questions in the book is where the hell is he? Like what is he doing? What is what is going on? He shows up at the end. Does he have the same name as Moraine's last name? Did you just? Say it's very it's very close. Oh, OK. It's like the mandred or something like. That oh OK, OK, nice. It's. Very. It's very close. They're spelled very similarly. I always get confused but no it's he's not in that's that's his first name. Oh, OK. Well, that's his forsaken name. OK. The the the mandred or something like that. The Mandred. OK, OK. I would have to see it. It's been a while, but I have to see it. OK, yeah. So yeah, I I kept thinking about that because I'm like when Lanfiere talks, she says the 6th because even when she was talking to Master Dolman and Thong, she was telling him about the I forgot what he the.

15:07 Seagulls. The yes and the seagulls, something about I'll have six of them for you to throw overboard. And I was like, OK, she keeps saying 666, but we've only had five names, so I'm like, OK, whoever this last one is, that's going to be the one. I feel that when they introduce it, it's going to turn everything on its head because they're doing so much to keep the identity of that 61 concealed. OK, I did a quick search. There's one that they haven't mentioned by name, so that could be either be Asmodian or Damodrid. OK, it probably won't be Agonor and Bilal because they die very early. Oh OK, books.

15:57 I think they die in the Eye of the world in that battle and Masonic could be the other one she in the book she hid in the tower. Oh. And that's all I'm going to say. See you saying that. There are three potential the three potential forsaken that the the last one could be Asmodean, the Madrid and Masana. It probably won't be. If they do anything, they'll combine the Madrid and Asmodean. OK. But it depends on some events that happen later.

16:38 Right, OK. And I was going to say what you just said about her hiding in the tower. I was going to be like, oh, that's the one who's been composing. But no, because she was, she was sealed up until a month ago, so she wouldn't have had anything to do with that. But that's still. But remember, they're all really good at compulsion. Yeah. So even if she could do what Robin did and she could have been there a month and they think she's been a novice for six months. Yeah, but now I was just thinking like, we still haven't figured out who compulsed Sherry and Sadai. Yeah, because that would have had to be really good because Naomi is not that good. Yeah, with with the compulsion she's doing is like whoever whoever showed her how to do it or however she figured it out is it's still they didn't even they they didn't show her exactly how to do it.

17:36 And I don't think she what she's doing is really considered compulsion because compulsion is really when you're making someone do something else. She is doing more of the memory altering thing, like she's making people forget things. Well, compulsion is, is a you're messing with a person's memory and their state of being. Because you see, Gabriel has used it to Robin has used it to implant memories in everybody's head, not just to make them do things. Yeah. So that is a that is a form of compulsion. So they didn't show her who whoever showed her, however, she feed it out is not a perfect form. So she's she's got the memory part imperfectly where she alters.

18:25 She can't really alter memories. She can blast them away. It's almost like what is the one in Harry Potter Obliviate. Yeah. Yeah, it's like Obliviate with Ron's wand. OK, but you know that if you think about what we've seen of Naomi in this particular episode when when they are in Tan Chico and she makes the the girl forget even when she's doing that, Leandron tells her she was like, you know, you can she can make you forget some things. And Naomi says it's not exact, like she'll forget more than just this. So she didn't have precise control over which she's. Doing Yeah.

19:13 So if you think about it, maybe that could explain her doing Sharium, said I because when Sharium was having the conversation with Baron and she was trying to determine where Elaine and I need were, it's almost like she was struggling to remember. I remember. And I think if Naomi's, if her ability is imperfect, then that could explain that because you would think if she could control it, she would plant the memory to Sharon's. Not like, Oh yeah, I signed them out and it would have been a little more, maybe a little more flawless than we thought.

19:56 So I guess that does make sense, especially now since we know. Kind of the extent of what these Black Aja women are are willing to do and how far they're willing to go. And I remember I said something about them not knowing. They do know of compulsion, they just don't know how to do it because remember, they're like, it seems like Sharim. So that was, well, they don't. They don't know how to do it though. Maybe they have experimented with it to try to figure it out, but it's very dangerous even to experiment with. Yeah, because she's a brown Osher, so she probably has been stuck in the library reading, trying. To reading about. How to do certain things like, OK, well I know that this gift or this skill has been lost, let me see if I can find out how to do it. And maybe that's why it's imperfect for her, too. Yeah, and who knows who she's been experimenting on? That right?

20:51 A lot of people walking around with messed up memories and stuff. Right. Or maybe some novices that she's like, OK, nobody's going to pay attention to what they say anyway. How many stilled men that they've been studying that she's done it to? Ah. Yes, because that's what they do when they. That's what the ground out of them. And OK. That's a lot to think about. It is. And that that makes her more diabolical. Yeah, And I mean, even even when we see her in this episode, she looks a little more, she does look a little more diabolical, to use that term, because when we first met her, she seemed like a sweet girl, you know, oh, very. And blah, blah, blah, da da, da.

21:41 And then when we saw her in the first episode, it's almost like she had a complete personality change. And then in this episode, it just seemed like she seemed more, I don't want to say angry. She seemed like a much harder person, if I can say it that way. She is just like when Leandra was like, OK, alter her memory and she was like, OK, I can do that, but it's not going to be the same. And she does it. But before she even gets to that part, when they start slaughtering everybody in the house and Leandron calls her over, the look on her face when she turns, oh, when she turns around, you could tell she was enjoying what they.

22:25 Were doing, yeah. And I was just like, oh, this is it's just so weird to me to kind of put together in my head that these are sisters who used to be iced to die. They were supposed to be about the light. They were supposed to be about helping people, blah, blah, blah. And now you turn completely on your head. But then it also makes it easier for me to understand because the forsaking used to also be Isodai, right? Yes. So it's just like, wow, you can take things kind of like what Mike has been saying. You don't know who to trust. You know, the show makes you think that these are the good people, and then they turn out to be the bad people. And it's kind of like they're showing us the path to get from A-Z. I've been fighting this battle, you know, in the real world about the Jedi and how people think the Jedi are evil now because of act like it's the same with the eyes to that. There's still people and they still have desires. They still have wants, they still have ambition. And you know, even we'll, we'll talk about talk about the two stilled Black Aja sisters.

23:38 One of them What what did she say about the yellow Aja? She was like, how many people did she think she was healing? But she was basically torturing them. Yes. Well, you can't take away who a person is inside of them, so of course she would join the black object, you know, so she could torture people. Yes, because that's what she Yes, because she said, she said you're going to trust Amico. How many people did she did she say that she was going to save? And really she wasn't like, she basically she was lying to people that she was supposed to be helping. And then so it's. So even with the Forsaken, they were all ambitious people who had who had things they wanted and they couldn't get them as odds to die. So the promise of more power and the ability to do what you want to do, yeah, it's very powerful for people like that. Yeah, and, and it it does corrupt power corrupts. We always talk about it.

24:37 Yeah, let's talk about it. Power corrupts and. And especially if you make a deal with the Dark One is definitely going to corrupt you. That's his whole thing is. From Harry Potter as well. So it's like when you think about it, a lot of these a lot of these stores where you're always talking about good and evil. And I think we had this conversation on a previous show, you know, when we're kids, we believe in the concept of good and evil. And there is no middle ground. It's like the good people are good, the bad people are bad. And, and those are the only two ways to look at it. And then as we get older, as we go through life, as we go through emotions and relationships and, you know, jobs and trials and disappointments and all that stuff, we start to learn that the world is not black and white. There are Shades of Grey.

25:25 And I think that's the same thing with any, with any subset that we talk about in in these shows. There's yeah, you might have one or two good people, really, really good people. And then you might have one or two really, really bad people. But then more often than not, you have people that are kind of sort of in the middle, in the middle, you know, just come thinking of just the first one that's coming to mind right now. The whole thing with Captain America and the Super soldiers and thinking about Zemo's argument about, yeah, the Super soldier serum, it kind of makes you more of who you were. Steve Rogers was already a good person through and through, so it just made him more of that.

26:10 And then you think about people like Bucky, who he started out as good, and then because of things that happened to him and him being brainwashed, he ended up being bad. And now he's kind of sort of in the middle because he still wants to be good. But he could still turn on that Winter Soldier if he has to. It's just, you know, with the eyes to die. It's just, Oh my God, there's just there's so many layers to them now, you know, that that we're seeing. But anyway, so since we started talking about Naomi and the black Aja, let's go there because when we see them. You talk about a Red Wedding.

26:52 Listen, the way they were coming through those streets and they're all like dolled up and Leandra looks like Christina Aguilera did in the Lady Marmalade video with with the D Snyder hair and the red lace and everything. That's who she reminded me of. But all of them, they're coming through, they're very fancy. They look like they've got, you know, they're all dressed up and they've got somewhere to go. And what we find out is where they have gone is I guess this is Lee Andrew's old home from when she was a child. And we do see a little bit or we hear a little bit of her out of her back story here because the person there's a wedding going on and the guy who is getting married, it's like the great, great grandson of the person who was her husband and he is marrying a child bride and this. Trigger.

27:46 Talk about a trigger, Yeah? Listen, I don't even know if trigger is strong enough for words. I don't think it is either. It's it's not, but she comes in and she interrupts the wedding and when the guy says who he is, she's like, oh, you must be the great, great grandson of the man I called husband. She was like, but you know, he didn't treat me to a wedding, you know, and my marriage bed was in the basically saying it was in the dungeons. And, you know, she kind of made reference to the fact that he was not pleased when he found out she was going to, she was pregnant. And again, like I said, this is triggering her. And then when she goes over, she looks at the bride, she lifts the veil, she sees the child.

28:30 She's like another child. And you could just see, I was like, oh, it's about to be some shit. But I was not expecting the carnage that they unleashed. But I I would assume that all the other people who were in there were probably part of that family. And if she has those kinds of feelings towards that family, like the dude was like, get your hands off of her, she's mine. The engine turned around and with the one power stuck her hand in this man's chest and pulled his heart out. I was like, Oh yes, Leandro definitely has all of whatever, whatever leash, whatever cage she was in before where she kind of held back. Oh, she is holding nothing back now. Oh, she don't have to hide now.

29:23 Yeah, yeah, she. Don't have to hide how she really feels. So she tore his heart out. And then she looks at them and she was like, what did she say? Do your do your best or don't? Oh, she said. Don't hold. Back. Don't hold back, yeah. Don't hold back. And they went to town, killing everybody who was there for that wedding except for the bride. And like we said, we had, she had Naomi come and kind of take those memories away from that bride. But I was just like, these are some dangerous women 'cause she only had what it was her, Naomi Jane, the cute little girl and. It's been. It's been. I think it's been.

30:05 I think so. So it was only like 5 of them total, maybe 6. Yeah. And for them to do that damage to Carnage, I was like, oh, I don't know if this is going to be a good thing. Well, it's the one power versus people who don't. This is true. And there is a green, I think and the red, yeah, there. And again, one power versus people who don't, it's a mismatch. And none of those people in there were warriors. They're all nobility, probably. Was Leanne, well we don't know much about Leanne Jen's so-called husband like this is the first time she's actually mentioned a husband.

30:52 So I was going to say was he probably nobility as well? Because. This is a nice area that they're having this wedding in. This is the Manor and then it has a dungeon, so it's probably a Manor house, which he either has money, which would mean he's in the upper class. So and it's a very old family too. So I'm, I mean, I'm making some assumptions, but yeah, ain't none of them warriors. That's the bottom line. Ain't nobody in there to fight. No.

31:33 And and that's why I was like, you kind of see that the black Osher really are kind of, I guess revealing who they are because y'all didn't have to do all of that. Y'all could have killed them easy and it could have been quick. It could have been not as messy. But it's like you guys are free to do whatever you want now and you are releasing that. And it's like, oh, is this? Is this who you were under, under their eyes and eye mask all alone. Like you are reveling in being bloody and being cruel and being it was a lot.

32:13 Yeah. It was a lot. I mean, but I mean, we kind of knew that from the first episode because the fact that you could be in the hall killing your sisters the way that you did. Like they split one girl in half, split her in half. And she was throwing those things around. They're like she was trying to cut everybody in half. So yeah. OK, so we're going to stick a pin in the black Ajas in Tan Chico because we got to talk about how we get to Tan Chico and how we learned that this is where Leandron is. So we're going to take it back to the tower because there's also a lot going on in the tower. OK, So do we. Do we want to talk about a light up to die because this chick. She is OK.

33:02 We talked about the last episode. I love her to death. The actress, yes, I'm not going to try to sugar with the shy Shura Agdashlu. Shura Agdashlu, she is amazing and Eliza is so manipulative. Like every time she opens her mouth I feel like I need to go take a shower. Yes, yes, but before we get into her manipulative nature, I have to ask what is the deal with the bracelet and the shakes? That's new. That's original to this show. Oh, OK, So you don't really know what's going on with that. OK, just so we know the the bracelet does have some significance because she says so to men later on. But because she was having the shakes and I was like, what is going on with her?

33:51 And I was like, is she being possessed? Is she just old and trying to hide? Like I didn't know what was going on. Let let me let me tell you something. So there are a lot of objects of power floating around different kind of terrain grill and sound grill. Some of them are small. OK. And sometimes they'll put them on bracelets or necklaces, OK, or hair Nets to increase their power or be storage, thinking like thumb drives, they will hold power for you. You can serve it away. So, yeah, so it's possible.

34:35 I'm thinking that that is a bracelet of some tarangrial. OK, so angrial. So angrial, so maybe. OK. But I don't know if that's what she's using to help with her health because usually when an older person shakes like that, because, mind you, she she was in the tower when someone and Lorraine were novices and they're damn near 100 years old. So how old is she? Yeah, you know, so. And she could, she has something and she doesn't want to be healed or it may not be something that can be healed, who knows?

35:16 But it's obviously something and the fact they focused on it and the bracelet means it might be related so. Yeah, but I was also wondering if maybe it has something to do with the fact that later on in the episode she reveals that she's a seer. I think she's lying, I think she's lying. I think she's being manipulative. You think so? I think she was manipulating men. Because she talks about how she had the vision about the Queen of Andor having a very prominent role in the last battle. And she was like, yeah, you know, So what did she tell me? And she said, we can't, we can't change our visions, but we can, we don't have to sit by and just watch it happen.

36:01 Like we can do things to kind of, I, I guess, spur them along or kind of place yourself into whatever that is. Because she was like, yeah, so I went over there and I helped her win her succession war and I. Was OK if men knows anything and I wish they would make not make her character so gullible is that she knows her visions come true period. So usually people who get visions, those visions are true. Interpreting them can be difficult. Understanding them can be difficult. They're true. So but you.

36:45 Don't think she's a seer. I don't think she's a seer. I don't because there's there's too many things happening that she isn't aware of or she's still trying to figure stuff out on her own. Well, I guess. But because. Being a seer doesn't mean that she knows everything that's about to. Happen No, no, no, it's not about knowing everything and men does say you know she's she's trying to use it. But the reason why I say I believe that she's manipulative is she's manipulating all these situations in the tower. She knows that men is spying on her. How do how best to get on Men's good side by being like, I have something in common with you and I know how much of a curse it is, but there is something we can do about it.

37:35 Lies, lies in lies. Remember last episode I told you if there's anyone in the book who's more evil than Leandro? Is. The liar, but however, she cannot lie, so she could be telling the truth. Yeah. So I have to take that into account. I'm not holding outside the possibility that she might be a Black guys. I could be, you know, Mike might be on something. She could be Black guys. We don't know. They could have changed it for the show to make to simplify things. Yeah, because I was thinking about what she was telling men about, you know, she said one of the things that she had seen. I don't think she said it in so many words, so that could go into what you were saying.

38:25 But she was talking about how the red, the sitter for the red Asha, will call for a vote in the tower, and it's the most important vote in the tower's history. Swan Sanchez will lose. And that means that a group of eight Azadi will be sent to cage the last dragon. And I was like, OK, she's saying this. And then we see the scene where she actually goes down. You know, she's gone down a couple of times in this episode, down to the red Asha. And the first time she tries to go, she's like giving them gifts or she's bringing them gifts. And it's so funny because Sutama, when she gave her the the necklace set, Sutama looked at and she was like, you keep it a lighter. So that I that's a bit too guarded for me, but it, it, it's perfect for you.

39:17 I'm telling you the shade these women are throwing at each other in the last few episodes, they make me laugh. But it it's kind of like that. Yes, I see the manipulation in that because here you are trying to buy your gifts. And so Tommy even says that. So she was like, So what are you hoping to buy with these gifts? What do you want? And she was like, I don't want anything. I just want the red Asha to be back elevated to where they used to be. So I'm assuming that the red Asha weren't always as despised as they are. Or maybe they were despised but it didn't matter because they were kind of at the top of the pecking order. That's the way Elida is making it seem.

40:00 And the Oz, we think there Oz is at the top of the picking order. But she kept mentioning, like, she kept making it seem like the red Osher now, like in squalor. She was like, oh, yeah, I had been out here in a while. If I had if I had waited a few more years, I wouldn't even recognize it like. Well they they they've been pushed out of the of being in the hall a couple of Times Now. So and and so to any real eyes like her who had tried almost become Armourland, it would be a problem that y'all can't even stay in the hall. Like y'all let someone treat y'all like this, yeah?

40:43 But when you got one of your when your one of your ages has become a dark friend and she's corrupted other people around her, like, what would you expect? Yeah, yeah. I mean, they also mentioned that to her, she was because Sutama was like, this is not the time for us to be making waves, especially after Leandra and Eliza is like, that's the best time to make waves. I'm like. And and, and the other thing, another way that I said I get around is lying things. If they believe they're lies, then there are truths. So if she's, she could be having dreams of the future and she calls them foretellings. And if she believes that their foretellings and their foretellings and she's not lying. So there's that.

41:31 And in her plan, she really believes her plan is going to work. So her plan is to have a vote in the tower to the polls, small sunshine, so she can tell them, tell me this is what's going to happen. Because in her mind, she has already made-up her mind is going to happen. She's been around for a long time. She knows how to get around this. You can't tell a lie. You know, type of thing. Yeah, most of them do, right, so. She really? Believes that. This is how it's going. You made me think of. I know I'm doing the mic reference thing in Star Trek 2009.

42:13 Captain Pike is walking with with the engineer, Kirk and Sulu and he's like, y'all are going to jump 10,000 feet down to the platform. Y'all are going to beat them. Y'all are going to disable the drill and we're going to get out of here. He didn't say this is the plan. He told them what they're going to do. So this is sort of what she's doing. This is what's going to happen and she believes it. So of course she doesn't know it for a fact, but in her mind it is a fact because it's going to happen and she puts all these things in place to make it happen. OK, She she, she gets the leader sent away because of course men went running back to tell she run till that to get the sitter out. So you know.

43:04 Oh, you know what? I didn't even put that together because of the fact that when, when Leanna comes down and she tells her, yeah, we're going to go, we're going to send you across the, you know, across the world to go. It's all there to get my husband. Yeah, the the false, yeah. The False Dragon. I didn't even think about the fact that that was even related. I was just like, oh, she got it wrong, but Oh yeah, 'cause if men went back and said, well, this is what she told me because men is there as a spy. You know what? I didn't even, I didn't even put that. Together. You didn't put it together. Yeah, that's. Why? That's why she said all that stuff to me. And man comes in, she's like, yeah, I know you're here to spy on me, but here I'm your friend. We have something in common.

43:51 And this is I'm going to tell you what I'm going to do. Actually, this is what's going to happen. And so she goes and tells. And of course, Swan makes a move to get them out so she can't call for a vote. But then she's down there when that happens and she's like, oh, we're going to need a new sitter temporarily. Because the other girl, I feel like is probably more pliable to what Elida wants to do as a, as opposed to Sutama. Cause Sutama is basically like, we don't like you. We don't want you down here. And she's all high and proper and like, really Tooting her nose up at a light and light is like, yeah, OK, I'm gonna get you out of here so I can work what needs to be done. So OK, OK, I get it.

44:41 I I see it now. You seeing that? Yeah. Eliza is slippery, slippery, slippery I. Do still think that maybe she could be a seer, but you know she. Probably. She probably is to some degree. And she says it's not like men. So she does say that her her visions or her discerning she. Says foretellings. Yeah. Now whether she believe is a foretelling to just be a dream, you know, just saying I wouldn't put it past her that she's not being OK. I won't say that she's lying. I would say she's being.

45:23 She's not. Being evasive. Evasive, that's what. She's being evasive. She's not being evasive and she's not being terribly specific because remember, they talk. Marine does it all the time. You talking generalities. You don't answer the question that you're asked, You answer a different question that wasn't asked. So, OK, OK. And if they believe? It to be, if they believe it to be true, then it's not a lie. So she really couldn't believe that she's having foretellings and she's not. OK, OK, that gives me something to think about with her character. But even following that with her character, when she comes up to try to see someone again, the shade these women are throwing at each other in these episodes is just hilarious because she's like, oh, Darren, what brings you up here to these high to these high walls or whatever, Just basically saying, why are you not down in the basement where you blow?

46:28 And Darren was like, well, you know, I, I mean, I can't even remember the retort. But Darren, I will say she's very quick on the uptake. And when she and, and, and Liana even more so because when Eliza tries to go past him with Liana's like, excuse me, slow your roll. What you doing to me? Do you have an appointment? Right. She was like, I, you know, I would like to speak to the amulet. You need to have an appointment where I would like to request a private audience, as all sisters are able to do, She said sitters, not sisters. You, you, you mistake, you mistake one of the the letters in that word. She was like, now if you want to go find a sitter to come up here and request the private audience, I will pass that request along to her. And what a lot of says, oh, she said to Vera, she was like, cross me now and I'll make pay for it or something like that. And they both just looking at her like whatever. And I was like, I don't know that that threat seems very credible with her.

47:31 Yeah, I'm going to say something that even knowing what happens in the books, Elijah seems to be the most dangerous thing in the tower right now. I would agree. Because everything is already on shaky grounds when you come in and you start sowing seeds. Of chaos. You start sowing seeds and you start dividing sisters and turning them against each other. You're actually the problem, yeah. You're not trying to figure out how you can bring everyone together. You're your first goal is to get Swan out and to take over. But to do that, you're going to have to divide the tower. Yeah. And it's not like Swan doesn't have people on her side, so you're going to turn everybody against each other. Yeah.

48:17 And that's that is more dangerous than anything. Kind of like kind of like the Forsaken fighting amongst each other. Interesting that you would mention the Forsaken. What Forsaken has been around her for the past month? Oh, oh, Oh yes. Who knows what he got in her head? OK, just saying. And, and and that's even looking at it without a book perspective. I but I mean also if she's the type of person that she seems to be personality wise, he may not have had to do or say anything to her. This could just be a natural progression of of who she is. It could be, but it doesn't help knowing that a Forsaken has been next to her for a month.

49:13 Yeah. Sowing his own seeds of chaos. Right. Putting his own plans, nor This could be his plan from the beginning, right? The way he walked into the tower and composed them all. Yeah. His whole plan. I mean, Rand would need a united Tower. He would need all that style on his side. Yeah. At the last battle. What better way to undermine him than to turn the tower against itself? Yeah, and what didn't I need say was that the last episode which said they're tearing each other apart, Was that this episode? That was E Gwaine in the last episode. This tower is tearing, each tearing itself from the inside out.

49:56 Yep. Yeah. And in comes Eliza to make that shit happen. Right. OK, yeah. I never think about the fact that she's been there with Robin for the last month. OK, yeah. But staying in the tower since you mentioned I need and you mentioned the other two black Asha, let's talk about them. Because Joya and Amico, those are the two women who tried to shield Swan in in the first episode and they failed. So they have been steeled and they are now in the dungeons. And again, Swan has a plan for Naive and Elaine to kind of find out where Leandrin and the Black Asha have gone and what their, you know, what their whole purpose is.

50:45 Like, what were they looking for when they stole the objects from the repository and everything. So they go downstairs to talk to them because Baron is like, OK, this is what we need you to find out. And Nyneva's like, OK, but we have to do this our way. You can't come in there with us. It's better for us. And, you know, Elaine says we have one advantage that you don't have. We can lie. You can't. So they go in there and they start playing good cop, bad cop. And that mess is so funny because Nyneve comes across in her usual way. She's kind of, she's kind of mean. She's kind of straightforward. And Elaine is just sitting there silently kind of watching as Nyneve is asking questions. And it's so weird because when you look at them just the first glance, you would think that Joya, who is the the white bald headed Asha and then Amico is the the black lady in the she's the yellow Asha.

51:44 Asha. You would think that Joya is the one that's kind of steadfast and Amico is the one who's kind of presenting herself as like the crybaby layup, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when they kind of when I need kind of says, you know, cut the bullshit, I'm not believing this little song and you know, so. That OK? Is this how you don't want to be remembered? Just go ahead and drop that act. Right. And she completely turns it. She was just like, this is what's going to happen, this is what we're doing, blah, blah, blah. They kind of give Naive and and Elaine some information, but it's false information. But I think the most interesting part of their interrogation was when they go to Joya the second time after they're like, OK, so Amigo already gave us some information, so why do we even need to keep you alive?

52:37 And Joya basically says, This is why I'm telling you the truth. She was like when I, before I was a black Asha, I was in the great Asha. My, my whole skill set is being able to read people and kind of, you know, figuring out what they're going to do and kind of see what path they are. And she looks at Naive and she says, I believe you when you say you'll kill me. I know the look of a killer when I see 1. And I was like, what? Because Naive is just looking at her like, and I'm like, oh, that just tells me almost. I don't know, Maybe Nyneve knows that part of herself. And that's also one of the reasons why she can't channel the way she channels or the way she should channel. But I was like when Joya said that she didn't look at Elaine, she looked at Nyneve.

53:29 She said. I know the look of a killer when I see one. Remember Nyneve killed a trollic. Oh yes. Yes she did. She killed her tronic and didn't use the one power. That she did, but but that was different because that that was self-defense. It was, but again. Yeah, they. Were being. Technical if. You're going to be technical about it. Being technical. And and it wasn't like, I mean, you can see she, it was a straight up fight and she killed her. Yeah. She had no choice. Yeah, but no, she actually lured him to. Oh, OK, yeah.

54:11 So she knows. So joy. Joy is it. Amica could tell. That was Joya. Joya could tell, yeah, If this won't, if she really wanted, if she wanted, if she could kill me, she would. Right, Yeah, because, because Naomi was like, I'm so sick of this. She was like both of y'all giving us bullshit. I'm I'm just tired of it. And Joy was like, no, I had no reason to lie. Yeah. And remember when she when she was in the in the columns, we don't know what happened when she was a red Aja remember because there was a time she was flying through and she had on red when in in the last when there was a flashing really quickly. Yes.

54:59 Yeah, she had on red, so we don't know. OK, because I was going to say if she. Because that was the one where, no, no, I'm saying one of the possible futures, the one that she blocked out, the one that she doesn't remember what happened, really. Oh, yes, OK. You're talking about Nanette. OK, Yes, yes, yes. Nanee, yeah, yeah. So she, we don't know what she did in that life. Right, she. Answered and so that could be. Bloody. And that could be and that could be what she's picking up on. OK, yeah, but anyway, so Joya says that Leandron is going to tear because she's trying to help one of the Forsaken get calendar, and then Amico says that they are going to somewhere else.

55:57 Get. The the false dragon, which is where Swan just sent the the sitter for the red Aja. But anyway, so when they come out of there, Elaine and I need were like, so I don't believe that that's what's going on. And I need takes Elaine to the place where Leandra was keeping her son. And of course, this place has been completely cleaned out. And before they end up leaving, they find a symbol up under the bed. And the symbol is made in chalk and salt. And when they go to the, they go to the library on the brown agia floor to look it up and it says that it's a symbol.

56:41 I think Elaine said it's a symbol to kind of, I guess to put it in Lamish terms, it shortens the trip for the soul so that they come back sooner. And you put one at the place where someone died and then you put the other in the place where they were born. And so Naive has figured out that Leander's son is probably dead. She was like, you know, he was very old, so this is probably where he died. So where would where was he born? So when they go in the library and they look it up, they realize that that symbol is the symbol from a place called 10 Chico. And they're like, OK, well maybe that's where Leandra is from.

57:22 Maybe that's where her son was born, you know, maybe that's where she is. So then while they're in there, they realize that there are some drawings of some of the items that were in the repository because Baron is inventory in what is missing. So they start going through and they're looking and they come across a drawing of the bracelet that we saw and they realized, oh, wait, this is a bracelet that's similar to the Sean Chan. And then Elaine is like, wait, Tan Chico is not too far from where from farm It's. Like. Yeah, it's in the same general area from where the Sean Chan were.

58:04 And that's and Tan Chico could be where the Sean Chan are from. Yeah, so as she is saying this, there is someone standing in the door with a crossbow and shoots the crossbow at them. Naive happens to see it just in time and gets them down and the crossbow like literally grazes Elaine's head. Elaine shoots someone, some of the one power at it and tosses it out the door. And then when they go to look, this thing is dead in the middle of the floor, and it's a Gray man. So down the dead. Huh. Yeah, that's the thing, 'cause she was like, I didn't hit it with enough power to kill it.

58:50 And Naive looked at it, she was like, he was stabbed. And as they're sitting here contemplating this because nobody else is on the hallway, here comes Baron from around the corner. She's about to, you know, say something and she looks and she was like, what in the light is going on here? And they were like, yeah, this dude, you know, this, this thing came after us and, and tried to kill us. And, you know, Naive asked her. She was like, what are you doing up here, Vera? And Vera was like, this is where the brown Aja are. What are you doing here? Which makes sense because Baron should be up there and the other two shouldn't. So they don't say anything. Elaine is like, I'm still a bit shaken up. Can we leave?

59:34 And as they're leaving, my name was like, yeah, we're going to Tan Chico tonight. We're not going back. We're not staying here. And Elaine is like tonight. She said yeah, we're not safe here. She said did you notice what? She didn't ask us. And Elaine was like, no, what? Cause Elaine is still in a daze. And she said she didn't ask us who stabbed him. And I was like, oh. As Mike would say, that's one more in variance column. Right, right, which is which is disheartening because I don't want to believe that Varen is I don't want to believe that she's dark Asha, but that's one of the things that we do learn from Joya and Amico.

1:00:16 Amico says that they she was like, we only know the people who was in our heart and my name is like, what is that? She said each heart consists of three sisters of the black Aja. Each sister only knows of one other person outside of their heart. And she said Leandra was my contact. So basically it could be 3 here, 3 here, 3 here. And I guess that's for, you know, plausible deniability if because you don't know everybody in this particular heart. So you can't implicate everybody if something were to happen it it's a smart system. Yeah, unless, unless you're Leandrin, Yeah, and you're, you are everybody's contact. That's that's true.

1:01:05 That everyone thinks they only have one contact. It's Leandrin. Yeah, but if everybody's contact is Leandrin. Then nobody knows who who they are but. But Leandra knows who. Everybody is, yeah. And so when she so at the beginning, when she calls from for the sisters to come help, they all know, yeah, Leandra's my contact for the black option. So it's possible at that point they didn't know each other. I think a few of them probably were in the same heart because they look. At each other, but I'm just saying you see how that works? Yeah, so it I mean, it could be possible that Baron is Black Asha and we just we're still being played. I don't want to think that because again, I like Baron, but yeah, she's.

1:01:58 She's black Asha, she couldn't have told them that Leandra was black. Aja because they will violate the oath so. Yeah. But then would she, if she was Black Aja, would she be cataloging the stuff they took? Yes, probably because when when all of that happened and I know me not, I know me and Naomi came out, Leandra said did you get it? And Naomi said yes, I got it. Plus anything else I could hold. So maybe Veron is just trying to catalog because one, if she's still there, obviously she's still undercover. Her cover is intact. So she's still going to make it seem like she's doing whatever she needs to do to kind of track down the Black Asha. So there's certain things that she can do that wouldn't be, as you know, suspicious cataloguing everything that was missing from the repository that that wouldn't be, you know, that wouldn't be something hard for her to. That would be, and that wouldn't be violating her black Asha Oaks either 'cause she's just doing her job. Right.

1:03:10 And here's the thing, she could be still doing that as a black Asha because Naomi may have taken all of the objects. She doesn't necessarily know what the objects do, which we see later on in the episode because she's actually researching some of the books and Leandron's in the library where they are. She was like, yeah, this is what this looks like. So she doesn't even know what the objects are that they took. Very could very well be trying to say, OK, this is what they took and this is what it does. She could be doing that for Leandron and we just don't know it yet, you know? I mean, it's a way for her to keep her cover intact still. Like she's doing what she's supposed to be doing for the tower, but still doing whatever it is she's supposed to be doing for the Black Asha as well, if that's what she's doing so. And, and I was going to say also, if Leandro was everyone's contact, but they didn't know it, Naomi wouldn't know Vera was black Asha.

1:04:08 And vice versa, right? Unless they were in the same heart, which. Obviously they weren't. They weren't because of the way that Naomi turned around and you know, there and I don't have to sit here and listen to your bullshit and then you try to wipe her memory. Yeah. So yeah, I guess, I guess that question mark for Baron is, is still there. So anyway, I I guess, but OK, let's see where are we going to go next? Oh, we were going. We were transitioning into the bracelet, so now we're in Tan Chico. Yeah, let's go back to.

1:04:50 OK, So yes, let's go back to Tan Chico. So the first thing we do see in Tan Chico is Elaine's guesses about Leandron are probably correct, because we do see Leandron in a in kind of like a basement or a dungeon. She is painting the sigil on the floor. She's crying. And she's having there's like, this voice over in her head where I guess she's talking to her son. And she was like, you know, come back to me. You know, ever since you were here, we walk this. We walk this life together. You need to come back to me. And she touches the bed, and you can kind of hear what sounds like flashbacks of her as a child being beaten and screaming.

1:05:32 And she just has a very visceral reaction to it. So I was like, OK, this is where her trauma started for her. This is where it manifested, especially with her son. So then she walks back upstairs, and she goes into the room, and Naomi, again, is reading through the book. And she was like, yeah, this is a bracelet similar to what the Shan Chan used on the Damani, she said, But my weaves have no effect on it. And Leandra says because that's not meant for a woman, it's meant for a man. And now I know why you were looking at me crazy when I was asking about whether or not the Sean Chan Adams worked on men, because you knew that this was going to come up, right.

1:06:21 Yeah. OK. But that's what she's saying she was. Like this is man, that's. All the man these. Particular ones do not. Yeah, yeah, and, and Leandra says that they are in San Chico because the collar is somewhere in the city and we're going to find it and we are going to cage the Dragon Reborn. And as she says this, the camera pans over to one of the servants. And who does it happen to be but fucking Mogadian softly. Softly from the she knows. And she walks out the room and she just has this look on her face like, Oh yes, I'm going to stay here and and just wait to see.

1:07:04 Because we still don't quite know what the Forsaken exactly want with Rand. Because, Landfish said in the last episode, she said they don't care about him fixing or breaking the wheel, they just want him dead. Yeah. So you you do know I mean. But is there a reason why they want them dead or they just want them dead? Or is it because he is the, I guess quote UN quote, reincarnation of Lewis Theron who locked them away and they're just like, OK, we just want to kill you just just on principle. Well, without giving too much away, they they they were all doing megadian type, Leandrian type things where they just didn't have any regard for regular people's lives. OK.

1:07:50 And violating anything having to do with being an accident, right? So the police came after him, the Chief Police officer, the police commissioner, Luis Theron, came for them and they didn't appreciate that. So they just, they just basically want ran dead just on principle. They want Luis Theron dead because they wanted him dead then too, because he was, in their way, the only ones who didn't. Were Shamil. Right. OK. They have their own reasons. Lanfield wanted him to love her again, and Ishmael wants to destroy the will. Yeah, OK.

1:08:34 Everybody else, they just want, they just want them dead. They just want them dead and out of the way so they can go about their happy lives. Right. Because as long as he's around, there's someone more powerful than them, you know, which I I had a conversation with the person whom I'm related to by marriage because she knows a lot about the rule of time. And I was like, why did Liz Theron waste his time and imprison them? Why didn't he just kill them? They were really kind of afraid of him. And and she, she said, well, he was a good person. And remember when he told Ishamael he was like, he did that to him because he knew that that's what he hated the most. That was the that was the worst, worst punishment for him, Yeah. I I can't think of any punishment, I don't think. And I don't maybe he just applied that to all of them just to have them suffer in silence or whatever. Yeah, but yeah.

1:09:33 But then, you know, I thought about it some more and the way the creator in the wheel works, it probably wasn't their time. Like this had to happen the way that it happened. So maybe this wasn't meant to kill them yet. Yeah, and also. For Rand, maybe that was for Rand to do. Oh, OK, yeah. Or also it could have been just one of those like OK, yeah, I could kill you, but one that would be too easy. And 2:00 I could probably just keep y'all caged up and this could be a break in case, you know, break glass in case of emergency type of situation. Could be.

1:10:13 Because I mean, as dangerous as they are, they they had to be useful to him at some point. Because other than that. He's, he's clearly more powerful than they are. I understand They should have. They should have. They should have attacked him all the same time instead of doing that thing Mike and I talk about. I was just about to say. We've. Had this conversation before so that would explain why they didn't do that. But even even the people who are the most powerful, you still want your minions up under you, your powerful minions up under you to be able to do the stuff that you don't want to dirty your hands doing. Like, OK, you know what? This is important, but it's also beneath me. So I'm going to let my lackeys do it. That's that could be the whole reason why he kept them caged instead of killing them because it might have been something that can be wrong that he might have been like OK well I need y'all to go handle this.

1:11:09 Yeah, there, there are a lot of things I want to tell you, but yeah, it's it's almost like you did as a punishment for their crimes. Yeah, yeah. Because with a lot of people, it's like, if you kill them, I mean, that's one of the arguments with some people with death row, you know, they're like, OK, if you kill them, you're putting them out of their misery. You're not really giving them time to contemplate what they've done to be in this position and, you know, all this other stuff. But if you put them in jail for the rest of their life, or if you put them in jail for 80 years, they have nothing but time to think about what they've done and how that has affected their life. And for some people, it, it works. And for some people, they're just like, I don't care. Look, I'm getting free room and bored and three square meals a day for the rest of my life.

1:11:58 I don't have to work. I don't have to it it. It just depends on the person. Yeah, well, like Ma Gideon said, I am not going to be in anybody's cage for another 3. 1000 years, Ma, Gideon said. Well, we're not going to do. But we're not going to do it. Right, but the fact that she was there and she hears all of this and like you said, she walks out and you hear softly, softly from the and then she walks into the dark. I was like, OK, so that's one forsaken that knows what the plan is. And she's probably the only one that knows at this point because landfill is too. Landfill is too busy trying to be in ranch dreams talking I. I don't even know if she was being sincere or not about. Let's talk let's let's talk about that. So you and I in the last episode had a light hearted debate about.

1:12:56 Spirit and discussion. The the state of the relationship, right? And I consulted the person whom I'm I live with unrelated to our marriage. She says that we're both right. Yeah, and I mean, Mike said the same thing and I I can see your point. Yeah, so, but it's just one of those things where if she. Now don't mess it up, honey. No, I'm just, no, what I was going to say was if she's not in love with him, she certainly is playing it up like she is, you know, because. I, I, I agree with you. I, I, she is in love with him. She is, I really do believe that she is in love with him.

1:13:37 I don't know if she can get out of her own way because of her schemes and machinations, because she loves him and she's trying to do all these things to get him. And that moment when they're together and he's like, why did, why do you keep bringing me here? She's like, you didn't bring me here. You know, I didn't bring you here. This is the place you chose, right? But she's such a good actress because she seems so vulnerable and real and like she's, she's really sounds like she's being real sincere. Like I really want to get out of this thing. I really want you to kill the dark ones. So basically we can be together.

1:14:19 She wants to be free. Yeah. But does she like? I don't know. And that's the thing, because when I look at her when she is with him, and this was the reason why I kept saying I feel like she's really in love with Rand separately from what she felt for Lou's Theron. Because when she's with him and she's looking at him and she talks to him, you know, I'm a person. Body language is very big for me. Like I really pay attention to it. And it's just the way that she is with him. And again, that actress is phenomenal because when she has to be hard and when she has to be nasty and mean and and kind of stuck up to everybody else, she does it very well. But when she's with Rand, there's something about her that softens.

1:15:05 There's something about her that, like you said, is more vulnerable, like she's she's putting forward a face for him that she doesn't let anybody else see. And you really see it in this scene when she's sitting there on the bed. She looks so heartbroken. You know, she has the watery eyes and everything. When she's telling him she was like, I really want to be free of my dark oaths. And I think there's a way. And she starts telling him about a, say, Angrio that is for women that if used in conjunction with Kalidor, she was like, I think, you know, if if a man channeler and a woman channeler use both of those eye objects, they can kill the Dark One.

1:15:50 And Rand is like, wait a minute, is that a thing? And then she starts pulling back like, oh, maybe I've said too much. Because again, even though this is I guess Rand's dream, we don't know what forsaken our hearing. And we don't know if this is something that she really does feel. And if so, she's got to be worried about other than hearing it or if this is part of her plan. This is part of her plan. She's it's like she's. Manipulating him again, and that's what. But it's hard to tell. Yeah, and to your point about falling in love with him, it's just that she has said in the past, if only you had been like this before, like if Luz hadn't been this way before, things would have been different.

1:16:38 So I don't know. But. It it so I think she's falling in love with, she's already in love with Luz, and now she has that same feeling for Ran. Yeah. And but Michelle did point out, I do always remind her because she loves her romance between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. And I tried to explain to her a slave cannot be in love with the master. It's just it's just not possible. And she said and the thing about Rand, he doesn't really understand how much of him is loose Darren. And he may not really understand that those feelings inside for her, maybe those feelings that Luz has for her and they seeped into his own feelings.

1:17:32 And he doesn't have the ability and doesn't even realize that that is something that's happening to him. So, you know, and, and yeah, and The thing is, we all know that if you have intimate relations with a person often enough, you're going to develop feelings for them regardless of how it started. Yeah, and I think that's the thing. And that's, and that's what's going to be hard for him on so many different levels because his soul is bound to her. You know, his soul knows who she is. His soul was in love with her before. Yeah.

1:18:14 And they didn't leave her because his heart was broken. He left her because she didn't. He didn't think she actually loved him, but he loved her. Yeah. And and that's the part that's hard to kind of separate is the fact that he is the person reincarnated that was in love with her already. You see what I'm saying? So yeah, he could as Rand, love her, but it's also hard to separate the fact that Loose Theron was also in love with her too. Yeah, yeah. And that probably just kind of murkies the waters a little bit because if he, as Rand, believes that he was in love with Celine for the first two months, and then you find out who she really is, and then you find out what their relationship was 3000 years ago, that would be hard to separate because it's like, where, where does lose begin? And where does Rand, you know, and or it's just kind of like one of those things, where does it does it flow into each other? It's, you know.

1:19:21 If it's anything like the book, it's going to get real complicated. Oh, I can. I can already admit it's already complicated. It's going to get real. Complicated because keep still having this dream sequence relationship, kind of sort of relationship limbo, whatever with her. Why are you still out here on the real world hanging around with Egwane, who has no clue that any of this has happened or yeah, I already know. It's about to be complicated. It's about to get. It's going to get ugly. I'm talking about we don't know where Ran ends and Lose begins. Oh, OK. Get real complicated. Oh. OK, OK.

1:20:04 It's about to get real complicated. Yeah. But yeah, that thing was interesting because I was like, OK, is she being sincere or not? Like I don't, I don't know because. She said. I'm sorry, she's she's such a phenomenal actress. She is. She deserves an Emmy nomination. If not it win. She's really good. She's really good because here's the thing about her. Because if you if you look at the 2 the two main female villains of this show, you're looking at her and you're looking at Leandra. The crazy thing is, even though I know Laffier is a Forsaken and I know what her supposed agenda is or whatever, I feel like I might have more sympathy for her than I would for Leandra.

1:20:57 And I don't know if that's just because of the the the massive betrayal of Landrin, her being a acid and then turning out to be a dark friend. I don't know if that's why I'm feeling it. Because even if you remember from back when we first started covering the second season, the minute Celine showed up on screen, none of us trusted her. We were like, something is not right about this chick. So it's not like we fell in love with her as Celine and oh, she's so great for Rand and blah blah blah. And then we find out who she is and it's like, Oh my God, I'm betrayed. No, we knew she was sketchy from jump so I think that's probably why I can be more sympathetic towards her if I need to be because I never expected her to be a good person in the first place.

1:21:46 With. Landrin I wouldn't have, I wouldn't have expected her to be a good person, but I at least knew what team she was on or what side she was on. And so that I think she was a good person by grace for me. Because you are asked to die and you were tasked with this particular thing, as far as you know, containing the man who can channel. And you're basically trying to keep men from becoming a danger to themselves and other people. So I, you know, the betrayal was greater. It's hard for me because I know what happened to the book. Leandron is evil. I know you told me.

1:22:26 But even on the show, the them trying to get us get sympathy from us through her son. And then you realize that she's been letting this man suffer for years. 95 years. Out of selfishness, yeah, she's been letting him suffer. I can't be sympathetic to that. Right. You know, and you're giving him something that was making him feel more pain. Because you didn't know better. And you? Didn't know you better, you didn't want to ask for help. So this person that you love, do you let them suffer for God knows how many years? How many years I can't, I have. Even knowing what I know about her, that part right there would be enough to have me not have any sympathy for her at all. It it goes back to that old adage, if you love something, let it go.

1:23:22 And she she clearly could do it. Even even now, she still can't do it because she's still trying to find a way to bring him back. To bring him back and. I'm like, I don't, yeah, I guess on the one hand, I can understand that this is the this is the only person she's probably ever loved. And this is probably again, the person that kept her tied to her humanity. Without him, she can become this evil, whatever. And I I don't know, there's part of me that feels like she may not really want to do that and he but but for her to rest, whether she becomes total evil or not on this other person that to me again, that is cruel.

1:24:13 Like why would you make this one person so responsible? Put that that responsibility on their shoulders of whether or not you know how to act or not. That shouldn't be on him no matter what the circumstances. It shouldn't so. That's an interesting discussion. Who who, who gets more sympathy? Landring or a land cheer. No, we, we'll, we'll revisit this discussion at the end of the season once we kind of see where this season is going. Because even with what I said about landfill, even with the possibility of her actually being sincere, her wanting to get out of her dark oath so she can be with Rand or whatever her case may be, there's still something that's just kind of niggling in the back of my brain.

1:25:03 This is Hanukkah. Don't trust her because she's being manipulative. I mean, we see that most of the women in this show that are like extremely powerful, they are also extremely manipulative. And she could just be trying to pull on the pull on the heartstrings before she pulls the rug up from under us. So I'm I'm going to remain cautious about land fear. I'll see what she has to say. I'll see how her character develops. And I might be like, OK, I believe you. But I will also say this too. I do not believe that she should ever be with Rand. And it's just because of the what she's doing to egg Wayne. Like if you are really that confident a woman and you are really that confident of what he feels for you, the bullshit she's doing to a Gwaine, her dreams, that is uncalled for. Is it for For me that is the equivalent of Leandro and keeping her son alive?

1:26:04 Speaking of manipulative women pulling heartstrings, can we go to the IEO waste now? Yes, we can. I don't know, I don't even know where to start. I don't know if I want to start with the hot tent or, or the, or the Lost in the Dunes. Let's get we'll, we'll, we'll come back to the hot tent. Let's go to the Lost in the Dunes. I was not expecting to see the Tuathawan again, and especially not in this manner.

1:26:45 Right with with with a good number of them being slaughtered by the IL or by one of the sex of the IL. That was sad. And to see kind of E Gwaine have to take that in because you know, E Gwaine travelled with the 2. Of them on. And and grew to understand their ways and, you know, have compassion for them to see that sex come to such a bloody demise. And for what? Because there was water nearby. Yeah. And what I mean, they say it's it, it's against their own, it's against the law to attack the lost ones.

1:27:28 Yeah, or that's what the the guy said, I think. But what Ivienda said, she said she said it is dishonorable to. This is humble, not to defend yourself. But it's even more dishonorable to attack those. Who won't? Defend themselves, yeah, because I kind of got that from the other, the other dream Walker when EG Wayne was saying we need to bury them and she was like, is their fault they're dead? They didn't defend themselves. I was like, oh, y'all really don't have respect for them like 'cause she was just like, it is that's on them. They should have defended themselves, which I, I mean, I kind of feel the same way. I just, I don't understand the mindset of just existing. And then if someone attacks you, you're just going to be like, OK, I'm just going to.

1:28:21 I I don't, I do not believe. In the other cheeks. I know, remember. We saw them in the first season. They literally said that. And we had that same discussion. I was like, I am not, I am not of the. Mindset of. The other cheek I can. No, I just. You're not built that way. No, I'm not, because it's like, like if you're trying to take my life and take the life of my family and my friends, I will fight you to the death to do it. But in order to kill me, you are going to have to earn it. No, the way of the Leaf. No you do not. They are true pacifist. I know. They don't even turn the other cheek. They'll stand there and look at you as you do it. Like she said, some of them didn't even run. No, they didn't.

1:29:07 Yeah, they just, Yeah. It's it's the way of belief. Yeah. Yeah, but interesting. They call them the lost ones. I wonder why they call them the lost Ones. I don't know why, but I'm just saying. Yeah, I. Did wonder that too because but I mean, I guess I guess if you think about it it, it's kind of like watching rings of power and the the hard foots the. Hard foots. It's kind of like if you're just traveling all the time, if if you're wandering, so to speak, that could be a definition of loss because it's like you, you don't have any particular direction that you're going. You don't have a particular destination. You just kind of whatever.

1:29:52 The you then made me have to pull out a token quote. All those wonder wonder I lost. I'm not lost. I know, I know, but that I know, but that I mean, that's how the heart foots look at themselves. They're like, we're not lost. We know exactly where we're going exactly. But to the outsider, it may, it may not look that simple or it may not be that simple. They can just be like, OK, they're just, they're lost because they're just, they're just kind of going anywhere. They they have no sense of direction. They have no sense of destination. They're just kind of like, OK, we're just going, yeah. So yeah.

1:30:32 But we hear about the shy though. I yield, which is like if anybody was going to do it, it'd be them. And and then Land is like she's like, Oh, well, these are sword wounds and Land's like, Nah, those are those are. Spears made. To look like swords, yeah. And they're like, because Ibn, it's like, no IL would do this. Well, apparently there's a small group of you that would. There's a group that would this side though. You know you always have that one black sheep person or group. And and what and whether we already talked about anytime you have a large group of people, you always going to have a group within that group that's not doing the right thing. That's going to buck the system you're. Not going to do the right thing.

1:31:20 Right. Because why? If all of you are trying to survive, if you're all part of the same group, you know, what was it? They were walking. They were like, be careful. There's water up ahead and they all start going like they're about to attack. Yeah, she's saying more. People have pain. More blood has been spilled over water than over gold. In the threefold Land, yeah, because again, as you've told us, water is very scarce in the waste. So obviously when it's around, yeah, there might be some fighting for it, but to the point where you're killing all of those people for it. Yeah, I was like, OK, even your even their name, the shadow that that sounds just shake. Sounds like the shadow.

1:32:08 It does it just like, OK, something about y'all ain't right. But the other thing that we need to touch on with the IEO is the conversation that Gwen has with the with the woman who we thought appeared in Iguaine's dreams. But no, it turns out Iguaine actually appeared in her, which opens up even more questions about what it is that Iguaine can do. And we do find out they do call it dream walking in this show too. Because I meant. She and she said Iguaine there hasn't been the dream Walker in the tower in hundreds of years. Hundreds of years. Yeah. So that's going to be interesting to see how that develops, because again, it Gwen was in her own dream, being being choked out by Rena slash land fear, and then all of a sudden she ends up in this other. Woman, she goes to someone else's dream. Yeah.

1:33:04 I'm like, how do you just pop into a person's dream, a person you don't even know? But like, I think it was this episode where she explains to Egg Wayne, she says everyone can, everyone has the ability to touch Teleron Rion, but not everyone has the ability to enter it, right? And I was like, oh, OK. So it's just kind of like, again, going back to Inception, it's like a dream within a dream. Right. So yeah. This isn't a spoiler, but in the book there there are several ways you can get into Teleron Riyadh. You are a dream Walker and you can let me not give way too much so you can go there.

1:33:50 In your dream, you can physically enter Teleron Riyadh, which is the most dangerous thing to do. OK. And you can kind of. And there are other ways to get there too. We see Swan and Rain use the picture frames. Oh, is that what they were doing? Is that Teleron Rial where we where we saw them meet? I I didn't, I didn't know that at the time. Yeah, there's some or Tehran rial that can help you get into the world of dreams. OK, OK.

1:34:38 And I'm sure you'll probably find out more about this as the episodes go on, because. Yeah, A. Lot. Yeah, when this when this episode aired, there are a lot of people suspecting that maybe some of those items that were stolen out of the 13th repository were because more those of us who read the books know there are more of those items to enter the world of dreams. Ah, OK. Most of them were made for that purpose, so it's possible that they were because if you're going to have secret meetings, we saw a secret meeting in the beginning of season.

1:35:20 Was that season 2? With. Ishamael, And that was in Teleron, Riyadh, so not everyone can get there. So how did they get there? They had to use items of power to get there. So they have Trollix in Teleron Riyadh too. If he had wanted to bring one there, he could have remember, he could. He could bring one there physically. OK, OK. He wanted to show the little girl one and he also, if they are, if they've made them as powerful as I think they made them, he could create one there and it may not be a real 1. Oh, OK. It would just be a a manifestation of real 1. OK.

1:36:02 But he also could have brought one there physically as well. OK, OK. But not all, not all, not even all the Forsaken have that ability to enter tell around Rob physically. OK, Landfair, we do know Landfair can. I'm assuming she can. Because I think that's, I think when Moraine discussed landfill for the first time, that was what she said she could do. She was telling Rand that that was that was the her, her, I don't know, her strongest power, if that was what she was known for, if that was, you know, her specialty.

1:36:46 But yeah, that she could, that she could come to you in your dreams and that she could kill you in your dreams. Yeah, but OK, why do you have that click on your face? I just had a thought and I'm not going to say anything else about about that. OK, but I'm assuming we're going to learn more about Teleron Riyadh because now that E Gwain knows that this is possible, well, I won't even say possibly. This. Is something you can do. Yeah, and it plays a very important role in a lot of things that's coming up. Oh, OK. Well, in the book, in the story going forward is very important.

1:37:28 They have in the book it has. It takes Gwen a long time to master the world of dreams like a wise one. They've started the process already, so it seems like they're going to accelerate her learning. But it's, it's just, it takes her a while actually, but it looks like they're going to try to speed that up because we don't have the time. To. Have them coach her into, you know, knowing how to do all this stuff. Yeah, because the lady told her she was going to teach her because she saw the bruises and she was like the woman who you see in your dream, she's causing these bruises. And it was like, yeah, well, I was told that whatever hurts are inflicted on me and tell her I will show up in the real world. And lady was like, OK, you know what? Later on tonight, I'm going to show you how to protect yourself.

1:38:17 And I was like, oh, OK. Like, you would think that she would be more cautious about that. But like you said, they don't have a lot of time. So that's probably, they're probably just like, OK, well, you know what? You wear the Isodai ring. And it's maybe as far as the IO waste, they don't know of any of the stuff that's going on in the tower. They don't know about black eyes. And they just know. OK. The Izodi are supposed to be the people that are helping the world. So since you are Izodi and you are with the possible Kara Khan, we'll help you. Yeah. You know. And now, and now I think about it, it makes me think that what Landfill is doing, because at first I thought Landfill was in East Wayne's dream, but I think Landfill is pulling her in to tell around Riyadh. OK.

1:39:05 And that's where she's hurting her and telling around Riyadh, I think, or is Wolf, maybe we'll see. Because it could be she's just going into her dreams, going into Eagle Wayne's dreams and attacking her there, because Eagle Wayne does still have trauma about that. But it would also be beneficial for Landfill to pull her into Totoran Riyad, because Gwen has no idea what's really happening. Yeah. Does that make sense? Yes. So I guess it doesn't matter because she could be doing that in one of those things and they will be equally as dangerous for Gwen because Gwen doesn't know what what's happening. Yeah, so that's OK.

1:39:50 She about to learn. Well, hopefully. Well, yeah, because if if Bear's going to teach her and Bear's a dream Walker, then yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So OK, I look, I'm just waiting for the I'm waiting for the day when a Gwaine has been properly trained and she and laugh here can go up against each other. I just want to see that fight. I just want to see that fight. So OK, so let's let's go to the steam Hut. The hot. Yoga, the sauna, whatever he's got going. So LAN. Was like. Let's talk about first of all, let's talk about beautiful women pulling heart strings anyway.

1:40:36 But yeah, LAN is like what the fuck, it's hot in here. And even Marine who likes her baths hot shit where they're like Oh my God. Right. Oh, they're making it hotter. And the the girl said she was like, what? Have you never been in the steam tent before? And Lamb was like, no, we have not. And what, what, what's the older wise wise one's name? Bear Yes. What's the silver? Hair, she was like, yeah, they have so much water where they're from. They they sit in it and and bathe. So The funny thing about it is they're sitting there having a conversation and Marine asks a question.

1:41:18 Oh, she asked him about Ruidian and the woman was like, do they not teach you manners where you're from, child? I was like, wait, and Marine is even looking at land. Like what the fuck did I say? Just ask her a question. But you know, that's how it is when you go into the when you go into the world or the land of another culture and you don't know what their what their customs are, what their procedures are. You don't know what's what's acceptable, what's not acceptable. What was it when they were walking before and he had, she asked him, someone asked him a question about the wise ones and he's like, that's the wise ones business.

1:41:59 Well, who are the wise ones? How did you how did you know we were coming? That's wise. Ones business. And who are the wise ones? That's also. Wise ones business. So apparently they can call people child 'cause that is wise ones business. Yeah, but Moraine is probably older than all of them. Are you sure? Oh, well, I, I mean, I don't know 'cause I don't know anything about the IEO people. I don't know anything about how long they live and stuff like that. So. We don't know. We don't know. But anyway, so in the steam hook while they're having this conversation of. Oh, she asked about Rowidian. So Rowidian is where the chiefs go, where men go to become chiefs and women go to become wise. And that's where apparently Rand has to go to be declared the car con.

1:42:52 Yeah. OK. And it's it's a city. Is that a city? It is a place. OK, it's a place. OK, very distinct. OK, it's. No, this, I mean, it's a place. OK. City Place, right? Right. So that he does get that little bit of or land and Moraine do get that little bit of information and stuff while there. But I think the most interesting thing that happens in this Hut is there is a woman over to the side and she is just looking both inland and Moraine's direction. And land is like, I think she's looking at you. And Moraine's like, no, she's looking at you. And LAN is trying to convince Moraine like, hey, she's looking at you, why don't you go hang out with her? Like you deserve to be happy too. And Moraine says, do you think that being with her is what I need to be happy?

1:43:43 He said, well, let's start. And she was like, it's been so long since I've been with someone else. He was like, you don't learn how to do it. You don't forget. You don't forget how to do. It right you, don't you? Don't forget how it works, right? So when the woman comes out and stands in front of them, she's looking at both of them, or Moraine is giving her a serious eye. She's like, yeah, I might well. Well, she got a nipple hanging out so. Well, yeah, that too, but she was like, yeah, I might need to do this. And then she looks at Land, and she says something about would you care to join me? And Land is looking at her. And he turns to look at Maraine. Like, no, I don't think this is what I want to do. She turns around to walk out of the tent, and she has a tattoo on her back that makes both Land and Moraine gasp. Right.

1:44:33 This immediately makes me land, stand up and walk out the tent to follow her. And he asked her who are you and she tells him her name and what tribe she's from from the IEO. He was like the IEO don't have tattoos, she said. Also, you do recognize and he said what are you doing with the what? What is it with the something? The Golden Crane. The golden crane of Malchiere on your back. And then she proceeds to tell him that she was a child when the blight came and she was like, look, I'm part of the IEO. She was like, I ran for my life and one of the one of the wise ones found me and adopted me as her daughter. She was like, but I will break my spirits today and follow you back to my care in order to take our city back. I was like, oh, so like, she would have been a child because LAN was a baby when Ma care fell. So she was like, OK, so yeah, I I'll follow you if you want to go take it back.

1:45:38 And he was like, ma care is gone. And what is it that she said? She says as long as one man wears the the Dory and one woman and one woman wears something else. She. Yeah, she was like, we can go back and claim it. Yeah, Macchia lives as long as she she. Called him another time, she said. Because. She. Yeah, what is? That this is like king. Oh, OK, because she asked me. She said I see you, you carry your father's sword. She was like, do you still fight his fight? And he almost looked, I don't know, offended that at that. He was like, I have never forgotten. And she was like, OK.

1:46:25 OK, I have to speak to him to say every day, God damn it. But he was like, I've never forgotten. So I was like, OK, so Land has one of his people there with him. So I don't know if that if that means something like, because one of the things that we didn't mention in the last episode that I didn't think about until afterwards, we were talking about. We were talking about the nice moments that LAN and Naive were having. And one of the moments that they had was when they get ready to part ways because she's staying at the tower. He's going on this quest with Ran. He places his mother's ring in her hand. The proposal.

1:47:13 I don't know if I look at that as a proposal. Because it is the proposal. OK, you say it's a proposal, but it's a. Proposal. But you know, I think he was, he was kind of referencing her time in the Arches and he told her, he said there is no other woman I would have as my queen in this or any. Any life. You know. That sounds like a proposal to me. Hunter girl it. It doesn't to me. And I'm, I'm going to tell you why, because I think with the first season when we saw them together and even with this season, they have both acknowledged that as much as they care about each other, as much as they love each other, they cannot be together for various reasons.

1:47:54 I mean, even 90s says in the Arches they were happy, but they also weren't because they weren't who they weren't what they they weren't doing what they really wanted to do. OK, you can interpret that one way, or you can interpret it as neither one of them have become who they are supposed to be. Yes. And when that point, when that happens, they will be together. And and and in that case I accept. I expect a proper proposal, but I I think that would. He he is a king who is not a king, and she is in she is the most powerful in 1000 years.

1:48:42 Out of drink, no. But yeah. So I kind of looked at it more as a symbolic gesture instead of a proposal. Now, once they get to be. A friendship ring. Supposed to be then not not even I won't even say a friendship OK, a promise ring Let's let's. Say, there you go, Promise Ring. I looked at that as we'll be halfway. Promise Ring. OK, yeah, promise ring. But you know, I just, I just felt like because they mentioned that and, you know, they talked a little bit about the history of Mal care because he was explaining to her about the Mal care blade. And then now they're doing this part.

1:49:22 I was like, OK, so is land going to try to become king? Like is he going to try to claim his Kingdom back? Is he going to try to rebuild? And that's why they're throwing all of these because in the first season, we, we didn't hear almost anything about who he was until towards the end of the season. And now we've heard it, but three episodes in a row, I'm like, are we going to get some of that? Like is that going to be a part of the story? A part of his story? So I I don't know. I just I just thought it was very interesting that envy IO waste of all places, he happens to find someone from his Kingdom.

1:50:05 That was just very interesting to me. So I don't know are are we going to see anything about Mountier Anthony? Do they? Do they? Maybe. Maybe I'm. Not going to. I'm not going to pay. She's she's an original character with not an original character name, but she's an original character. And I, I could say it is a seed to let you know that there are some Al Kiri out there. Just because this city is gone doesn't mean the people are gone. Right, right. That's yeah. But OK, I just like I.

1:50:46 Said, I thought that he he has a very they all steal from each other. He's very symmetric born. It's it's the same, it's the same thing. OK, OK. He spent most of his life in the wilderness as as a Ranger, knowing he was the rightful heir to the throne of Gondor. Right. And Arnor. But you know, something had to push him to do what he needed to do. Yeah, OK, All right. But I'll just keep that in my mind because I would like to see a little bit more of like I know the story is mainly focused on Moraine and on Ran, but I would like to see a little bit more of stories from the other characters point of views, especially the interesting characters. Because yes, I know Land is kind of he's kind of quiet, he's kind of stoic, but to me, he's still one of the more interesting characters on the show.

1:51:48 So I would like to see a little bit more from his perspective, his point of view and and kind of a a story of his own and not him being, you know, just kind of like a spoke in the wheel of everyone else's. But let's see, where do we want to go next? Do we want to go to parent or do we want to go to Matt? Do we want to say Matt for last? Yes. OK, we're going to save Matt for last. Let's let's go to the Two Rivers. Karen is not having a great time trying to turn himself in. Like they're making it very, very hard for him to do this. Yeah, so I think we talked about this last episode they made. They made it different because in the book he comes back because he hears the two of his is in trouble and he gets there he finds out that his family has been murdered. But here Tam Al Thor, Rand's father, got parents family out and.

1:52:50 That's father as well, because that that's part of the conflict with this episode, because the White Cloaks have taken Matt's mother and sisters because they found out, oh, her husband helped the Iberas get out. So we're going to take them. And then you know, when, when this group of people come into Egwayne's mother's Tavern Hut where? Where? Yeah, when they come in and tell them they're like yeah, they took they took Natty and the girls because I can't remember Matt's father's name because he helped the Ibaras leave. And then parent comes down and they're like who are you? And one of the guys is like hey, that's parent, that's the Ibarra boy.

1:53:37 Like that's the whole reason Daddy is gone. And parent tells them he's like, look, if they came for me then I'll go turn myself in. So they'll let Natty and the girls go. Like this was Parents plan all along. He had said this in the last episode. Like, if that's why they're here, then we'll go ahead and just, you know, turn myself in and and we'll, you know, fix it. But when they have a a meeting of the townspeople later on that day, they're like, OK, but here's the thing. If you turn yourselves in, if you turn yourself in, yeah, they'll let Natty and the girls go. But then that means the white clothes won't have any reason to be here anymore. And if the white clothes leave, we don't have protection against the Trollix anymore. And then what is it that Gwen's mom says She says. So if that happens, then we won't even have our pride left when the Trollix come because she's in her mind. Like she said she was like, parent, we've all watched you grow up.

1:54:36 You are part of this town. We protect our own. And, you know, yes, there are a couple of people who are like, yeah, we'll just let him turn himself in and then we'll be safe. I don't know who that one woman was that was going off on that dude. She was like, look. Oh, Con conjure, Conjure, yeah. Lady Conjure, Yeah. We're not about to turn him in. And if you want to talk about who's what, I'm going to tell you what you are. And he's looking at her like. Hey, let's just real quick and real note on the group that show that the the new people Luke and and fire you. They are hunters for the horn. Yes, so. They came to the Two Rivers looking for the horn.

1:55:19 They're on the wrong side of the world. They don't know it yet. They don't, unless unless they've heard the gleaming singing of Matt Coffin from the Two Rivers as the Horn. Apparently it hasn't gotten everywhere yet. Apparently that story has not gotten everywhere, because if they heard it in the Two Rivers, they would not believe it. Right. So yeah, put a pin in Fayil and put a pin in Luke, because they're very important. OK, yeah, that Fayil she is that her name? Fayil. Fayil. Fayil. Yeah, well, that's her real name, because the name that he she gave him was. The same as Lance, horse, Lance.

1:56:05 Horse. She's like, I dare you say something bad about it. No, no, no, no, no. That's that's what he named this horse. Yeah, I know my. Friend named this horse. Yeah, that's what he called this horse. But she she seems to have kind of a curious interest in Paris. Karen Ibarra. Karen Ibarra. I know and I love the way she talks. I love the way she says his name. I'm like, OK, yeah, I can. Like, I don't know if this is where this is going, but I ship them. I, I don't know something about them two together. I can. I can so. Far the two perfect castings on this show are Leandrian and Fayo. Really perfect castings.

1:56:50 OK, OK, yeah. But yeah, so they come in and and parent, they basically tell parent, OK, yeah, no, you're not giving yourself up because one, we take care of our own and two, if you give yourself up, the white coats will leave and then the Trollix will still come. So they decide at that moment parents not going to give themself up. But then parent happens to see a lot of them are getting ready to leave. And he was like, where are you guys going? And they're like, yeah, I'm about to go back to my farm, like. Yeah. There's no reason for us to stay here anymore. And he was like, what happens if the travelers come? That dude was like I had a oak fall on my property. I'm going to go home and turn it into a bar for the door and parent is like that shit ain't going to work. Were y'all not here at bell time? Did y'all not see?

1:57:40 That's what I said, they got some short, they got some short ass memories they don't even remember. I think it must be a trauma response. It it has blacked it out 'cause. 'Cause there was. Like, OK, yeah, there's one or two, you know, one or two trollops here or there. You know, we can do that. But if, yeah, if 100 come, he was like 10 people over here, 20 people over here, 20 people be over there. He was like, no, you guys are just going to be trolley food basically. No, we have to stick together. That's the best way to fight them. And I'm sitting here looking at him make this little speech and I'm like, so you don't want to be a leader parent, huh? You said this before to Rand and now you having to say it to her because she said the same thing when she was like, so yeah, you're going to you're going to have to do this if you're going to leave. And he was like, I don't want to leave. She just.

1:58:32 OK, sure. OK. Yeah, it seems like a natural born leader to me. He. Does, isn't he? He's also a Tiberian. He's a Tiberian to say man. But you know it's. It's so. I know, but it's so strange because that that time has not come up in the show at all. I'm going to keep saying it until they bring it back. I know because to say it would explain some of the things that's happening to them and that would explain what's happening to to parent. Yeah. Not what's happening to him, but that would help you understand how the pattern is shaping itself around him, putting him in this position where he's going to be leading these people.

1:59:16 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, going back to the other couple that's in the Two Rivers, we got all these couples together. We. Do. Maxim and Alana and that whole scene with them was heartbreaking. It would, I mean even even the one. With. Her, yeah, I was going to say the one with him, with her and parent in the apple blossom, I guess. I don't know. I don't want to call it an orchard, but just like she was like OK, so. You say it was a graveyard. Yeah, it was. It's a burial site because she was like, I never would have taken you as a gardener. He's like, this is, you know, it's not that this is a burial site.

2:00:00 This is where all of my family are buried. And he explains that when his family is buried. They're each buried with an apple blossom seed in their hand. And that's why you have these beautiful white apple trees just kind of in the middle of all this green. I thought it was so beautiful. And, you know, she sits down and she was like, so whose tree is that? Because he's putting his broken ring in the tree. Because I don't think we mentioned that when when he got attacked by for a second, his his ring was broken because the axe hit him in the hand. So he was telling her that that was his wife's. And he was like, I missed her burial. And he said it pains and also comforts me to see how her tree has blossomed in my absence. And I was like, that's so sad because that tree was already like several feet high.

2:00:50 That tells you how long he's been gone. But and then. She explained to him about the ass. Yes, we were the ass. She said we, we, yeah, we, we, we use the ash of our loved ones and we mix it. What did she say? We mix it with clay and water. And we wear it on our face like a second skin so that the grief will seep in. And that just made me hurt so much more because we know that now that she's wearing that for Ivan. And then to have her and Maxim have the conversation after that where he was like, why don't you turn the bond on?

2:01:30 You've never kept it on this long. She's like, well, I'm keeping it on because we're in danger. We got trolleys and white cloaks around. And he was like, I, you don't understand. I can feel that. You feel nothing for Ivan. And she was like, no, I'm just trying to protect myself because I'm taking in all your grief. No, no, she said. I'm drowning in your grief. Yeah, I'm drowning in your grief. I'll wake up in the middle of the night choking on it. Because what is it that she tells, She tells parents, she says when because parent asked her if she's going to get another water. And she said, you know, I've lost waters before.

2:02:11 But with us three, it was different, she said. When she said Maxim and I were the flame and Ivan knew how to douse the fire. When 2, when 2, when a couple, you know, when one of a couple dies, She was like the the one left behind has the grief. But when one of three is gone, who? Who owns the grief? Who? Owns that grief. That was heartbreaking too. Because you know, if she's masking hers so that he doesn't feel it because his is so bad, Can you imagine like what that would be? They would probably both be not able to function.

2:02:55 The the the agony on her face and. On his. In your grief, like I'm, I wake up in the middle of night choking on it. Yeah, yeah. And his too, because even even later on, when Bane and Chiad, they're trying to, you know, they're trying to get Loyale to play the the, the the IEO kiss game. And he won't do. It and then they get ready to walk over to Maxim and he's like, absolutely not. And they think he's just being, you know, I, I don't know, aloof or whatever. And they're like, quit, quit trying to clean that dirty sword and come play with us. And he was like, this is not a dirty sword. This is the blood of the only man I've ever loved. And they were just kind of like, oh shit, we stuck our foot in our mouths.

2:03:48 Let us leave him alone. But I like that moment before that when they're like, oh, we'll go easy on you. It's your first time. He's like, what? Makes you think this. Is makes you think it's my first time. And then they got interested. They're like, oh really? Right. Right. Because everybody else is kind of like, no, I don't want to play with y'all except for Matt. But Matt is just, Matt was just horny. So, you know, Matt was trying to get it from wherever he could get it from. Yeah, but being and chatter amazing, all of them, They're great. They're great books too. Yeah, they're great books too. Oh, OK. Yeah. But yeah, Alana and Maxim. And that's the other thing, because when they were having that conversation, Maxim and Alana, he was basically like, you know, if you felt the grief that I feel or if you feel whatever about Ivan and his death, then you would want to do what I want to do, which is go after Leandrian and make her pay for what she did to him.

2:04:49 But instead, we're in the Two rivers. Why are we here? And that's the same question we asked in the last episode. We were like, why the fuck are they in the Two Rivers? And of course we don't get the answer to that question, so we'll probably get in the next episode of the episode after that. But it's a good question like why are y'all way in the Two Rivers? But but this also goes back to I hate not being a dead horse, but the difference in why he became a warder and why Ivan became a warder. The the ability for a person to see the bigger picture. Like they're more important things than hunting down Leandrin for revenge. Well, of course Maxim doesn't feel that way because he's not seeing a bigger picture.

2:05:33 He's only seeing that she hurt me and we need to make her pay. And Alana, as an eyes to diagnose. We have bigger fish to fry, you know. And especially since we know she's already kind of pledged herself to more reins, her calls in regards in regards to Rand. So Alana, whatever she's doing in the Two Rivers, it could have something to do with Rand. It could be there to protect Rand's interest, to make sure he doesn't have to come back. Because we do know that there are trollics always attacking the Two Rivers. So she could be there for that, to help these people to do something that Rand can't do.

2:06:16 Because as far as she knew, Rand, Matt and Parent were not coming back, so someone had to be there to help them. Yeah, yeah. That's the bigger picture, you know, that's the bigger picture, and Maxim doesn't see that. Because he's he's too much in his grief. Yeah. Yeah. And maybe that's another reason why Alana is kind of masking hers. Because if she let that grief overtake her, she's not going to be able to focus on the big, bigger picture because she's going to be too distraught. She's going to be too. Whatever. So yeah, very, very big difference. But yeah, let's see. Let's see.

2:07:01 I guess we can go to Matt. Before we do that, I do want to say we do get a brief glimpse of Natty Coffin and the girls. And I do just kind of love the way that Natty is telling the white clothes. She was like, I will die before I let you touch them. And I was like, I hope that's not going to come to pass because here go, child Balda right there talking about you and your cages. Such a waste of metal, if you ask me. Now, if you want to find out where they went, like I can get it out of them. I can get it for you. And and Dan is like, we're not about to the question. Yeah, we're not about to resort to your methods. He was like, I'm not trying to hurt anybody.

2:07:42 All I need is for the word to get out to parent that we have them and we're looking for him. He will come to get them. At least he does. You know, he has taken the measure of Parent as a man. He knows Parent is going to come try to rescue them, and Parents says as much, You know, to file. He was like, yeah, oh, no. He says it to Loyale. He was like, yeah, I'm going to. I'm going to go. Get them. I'm starting to think that child bother, this version of child bother just doesn't have a problem with, has to die. I feel like he had a problem with women. Yeah, I think we said that before too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It it's kind of because he's like.

2:08:24 He's just looking for an excuse to torture women. Yeah. And that's, that's just. And and and there's no age limit either. No, he's going to get what's coming to him. I'm and I'm I'm ready for it and at this point I don't care who does it. At first I was like, it needs to be either parent or inguain. Right now, it could be Dane. I I don't care. It could be anybody. It can be anybody. Let Alana do it. Let Maxim do I, I don't care. Let Inguaine's Mama do it. She might just be like, look, I'm just sick of you. I don't care. I just want I, I want him dead. I want him dead. He's just like, I'm trying to think is there. It's one of those things where every time he comes on the screen and he opens his mouth, it's like fingernails on a chalkboard.

2:09:15 It's that kind of irritating, like. Oh my God, can you? Stop making my skin crawl. Yeah, it's. Such an irritating character. Yeah, yeah. Can't stand that muffle. Anyway, so. So now we can go to Matt. Now let's go to Matt because Matt is struggling with these memories in his head and I said I don't know how to fix them. Oh, that was something else I forgot to mention. That was the last episode. Yes, Rima Sadai is back in the tower, so I'm glad that they were able to get her out of the clutches of the Sean Chan. Yeah, and they didn't have her long enough to do too much damage to her mental state.

2:10:02 Yes, good. Well, she's probably a lot tougher than than either Elaine or that other blue, Big Wayne or the other blue. So she's probably mental, mentally tougher. Yeah, because we didn't. We haven't seen that that blue sitter back yet. And I know. She was up. She was, no, I think she, I think she might have been one of the fatalities on the tower because she was on the tower with Egwayne. I do remember seeing her. But yeah, so the I said, I have been trying to figure out how to help Matt with the memories that's in his head and try to figure out what's going on with him and why he's, you know, all of a sudden able to speak in the Old Tongue and they can't figure it out. So Matt's struggling right now.

2:10:52 While he's in the midst of struggling, here comes Men again, trying to, you know, come to him and, and apologize. And it's I don't know how I feel about Men's character yet, because it it's kind of like, you know, we talked about her early in the episode, how she is playing the spy for Baron and Liana with Elita Sadai. You know, they kind of planted her as a servant in the tower to kind of, you know, check on a lie to see what she's doing, report her, her, you know, comings and goings and all of that other stuff.

2:11:33 And then on the other hand, you see her once she sees Matt, she's like trying to apologize to Matt and, you know, just trying to, I guess, still kind of incorporate herself into his life, which to me, first of all, seems very inconsiderate because you literally tried to sell, sell this guy out to the Forsaken and Granny. She had a, she had a reasons. And and I and I get that, but it just like if I'm mad I don't give a fuck what your reasons are. You tried to sell me out to some people who very possibly could have had me killed. So OK, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to help men out here a little bit and I'm going to help the writers out. They had to be explained or tried to show us what it meant to be a Tavirian.

2:12:23 We would understand why people do things around them that we may not really understand, but it happens for a reason. So everything men did put him in the position that he needed to be in to do what they needed to do to be around the horn and to blow the horn, that that's what it means to be a Tavirian. And and I get that part. So yeah, we can bash men all we want, but she ultimately didn't really have a choice. The patent was making her do these things because of the gravity that is surrounding this Tavirian mat.

2:13:07 And I guess that's part of the story, that. And that and that sort of they, they threw it out there in the beginning. Those writers did. And the writers ever since haven't really revisited that aspect of them being Tavirian and. I guess that kind of like I was about to say that that kind of that part of the story kind of bothers me because in a sense, it's almost like we're expected to not hold anyone accountable because the will, the pattern is what's controlling their actions. There is no free will, so to speak. Yes, that is what that is, what Robert Jordan was exploring as an author.

2:13:51 Destiny and free will is what he was exploring in those books and the pattern basic the will basically tells you that you you don't have free will. Yeah, and I don't. Like, and you do have destiny. Yeah, and and I guess. But but ultimately, ultimately I can tell you that the the Tom and Tom and Gaiden, the the last battle is ultimately about free will, OK at the end of the day, so. At the end of the 15th book. Patterns and destinies and all that stuff doesn't matter. But right now, to get us to that point, to get us that, to that decision point, all these characters have roles to fill. They have destinies, that is and, and, and it took to explain even more the way that men's visions work is that she's actually getting glimpses of the wheel. That's why her things always come true. She's seen things that are that are literally happening. Well, I don't like the fact that she has seen Matt hanging twice. Yes.

2:15:10 I don't like that. Yes, but I think it's doing it also to motivate her because in the end she does follow them when they decide to go to Tan Chico. Yeah. Because her, her meeting Eliza wasn't a fluke. That was part of the pattern. Because what did Eliza tell her? Sometimes we can influence these things. So she wants to save Matt. That's the least that she could do. For all the trouble that she's done for him is to keep him. If she's around him, she can prevent it from happening. However, what she fails to realize is her visions always come true. Always.

2:15:55 Yeah, she's not going to be able to stop it, but. As we learn with as we learn with Matt and Ran, they come true, but not necessarily in the way that she sees them. Yeah, she saw him stabbing Ran and assumed he killed him, but no, he did stab him. That. Happened but it came from throwing a spear, not like direct. But I will also say this. Who's not to say that that won't happen in the future? It might happen again, yeah. So. But yeah, but you know, one of the things that men does do is later on, after Matt has, you know, kind of gone off of her, he goes to find her to apologize to her.

2:16:38 And he was like, look, I understand, you know what you did. I understand what you gave up because she tells him, look, if Shamel was going to take away my visions, but I gave that up for you. And so he tells me. Yeah, I understand. You know, I, I appreciate it. He was like, I have some things going on with myself that nobody can fix. And that's kind of causing, you know, whatever behavior, whatever, whatever. And then while he's telling her this, she sees another vision of him hanging and she starts having this look. And Matt was like, I've seen this look on your face before. I know what this means. I don't want to know. I I've already told you, I don't want to know what the future holds for me.

2:17:20 And as he's having this conversation with her, Lord Galid, Elaine's brother comes in the hall. And he's, you know, hey, she said, she said to leave her alone because Matt is grabbing her at this time. He was like, I don't want to. I don't want to know what's what the vision is. And she's like, hey, it's OK. You know, just let me go. So he misreads the situation. He's like, hey, she said she doesn't want to be bothered. And Matt is like, dude, you're not even part of this conversation. Just get away from us. And man is like, look, I don't need your help here. And she goes in One Direction and Sir Gallard is trying to take Matt to task. And Matt was like, oh, you were just, you were just so great, aren't you?

2:18:01 You were just phenomenal or whatever. He says to him very sarcastically. He turns around. He walks off and he calls him a prick. So he's in that little courtyard and he has his little quarter staff and he's sitting there against practicing like trying to remember what he used to do as. I think he's just trying to trying to refocus and clear his head. Yeah, yeah. So he's doing that. And while he's doing that, here come the brothers in there, and they're being very, they're being assholes. I say very douchey. They're being very douchey, very douchey, you know, kind of making fun of Matt and like, oh, well, we know the first person to call if a tree decides to attack us and blah, blah, blah, because he's hitting this wooden just kind of like this wooden pole.

2:18:52 And Matt is like, OK, whatever. Naive comes in and she's coming to tell him, hey, I just want to come say goodbye. We're going to, you know, we're we found out some stuff about Leandra. We're going to leave. And Matt is like, no, you're not going to leave without me. And she's like, no, you really shouldn't come because blah, blah, blah. And again, here comes Lord Galley because my name is trying to leave and she doesn't want Matt to come because she doesn't want Matt to be put in danger. I think she said she wanted to leave. And Matt's like, dude, give it a break. Like, I would have been like, dude, this is one of my friends. Will you, will you just like slack the fuck off?

2:19:34 But you know, they start going back and forth, back and forth. And of course, Lord Galley is like, oh, do I have to teach you some manners or whatever bullshit he says. And you know, he and his brother were in there with their swords. And what did he tell Matt? He was like, yeah, we can teach you how to we can teach you how to fight with a proper weapon. And Matt is like, no, I don't need it. I'll, I'll take the Bo staff any day. So that's when nanny comes in. They have the conversation and then they start kind of going off on Matt. Like what? She says she don't want to be bothered. Do we have to like, you know, do we have to teach her a lesson? And Matt's looking like at them like, OK, you know what? Yeah, 2 marks says I can take you with this. Both staff, 2 marks each.

2:20:17 And Nanny was like oh Matt because she's thinking Matt is about to get his ass handed to him. And at first, I was thinking so too, because Matt is not in, he's not in a good headspace right now. And these two brothers, as arrogant as they are, we have seen them demonstrate their fighting skills. They're pretty good. But then Matt looks at them and he said something in the old Tongue. And I don't know what it was he said. But as soon as he said, I was like, oh. It's time to toss the dice. Oh, that's what he says. It's the same thing he said when he blew the horn. Oh yes, OK, OK, so he says that and I knew he was looking at him like what? And as soon as I I was just like, OK, y'all about to get y'all's ass handed to him 'cause he just spoke the old tongue. That means there's a little bit of that hero of the horn somewhere in there.

2:21:13 And they proceed to. Get their asses kicked right. And they get their asses kicked, quite, quite spectacularly at that. Because The funny thing is, they keep going back to Nyne's face. And Nyne doesn't it? It looks like she doesn't know if she wants to look, say something in disbelief, or if she wants to laugh. She is holding her face so well because it's almost like she was worried about Matt. But then once she sees what's going on, she's amused because the brothers are getting what what, you know, kind of what they deserve. But Matt proceeds to whip their ass and then he throws the boat staff away and he walks off and I was just like OK I love it when Matt has his moments because they are too far and in between. But this was glorious because both of the brothers are looking at him like how the hell did he just beat us with a stick? Right, he says he walks off 2 marks. And then just looking at him like he, he knocked one of the brothers out, he knocked, he knocked him out. Yeah, going.

2:22:21 He knocked him out. Knocked him out. Yeah. But then after that, we see them heading towards the docks, Elaine Naive and Matt, because Matt has basically told them, yeah, you're you're not going without me. Where are we going? And then they kind of tell him, OK, so we're going to Tan Chico. This is where we think Leandrin is. And, you know, let's go off on the adventure. And of course, at the end of that, we see that Men has been watching them, and she very stealthily follows them. So yeah, I kind of agree with what you're saying. I think Men feels like she has a debt to pay to Matt and she's going to do whatever she can do to try to either prolong or prevent any harm coming to him. But I I don't know, I'm just kind of like when men, it seems like when men is trying to help, it doesn't exactly go that way. So I don't know if her following them is a good idea or not. We'll.

2:23:31 See. We'll see. I mean, we, we've got one person who can channel. We got one person who apparently has a block. We have one person who can fight only when the older part of him takes over. And we have a semi consistent fear. I, I, I don't know. This is I don't know. This is the fellowship of the, the Adam. I, I, I don't know what to call it. They, I, I don't know, I just see a lot of chaos. In there, it's a it's a Scooby crew. We'll see what they do. Right, right. Because I, I just, I don't see anything organized coming from this. I don't I, I don't know. I've been, I've been with Elaine is the brains. They'll figure it out.

2:24:18 Yeah, yeah, as long as they listen to her. But we have three people who are notorious for not listening to other. People known for not listening to anybody but. I don't know how this is going to work out but. We'll see and and. They're going to a part of the world they've never been in. Her political skills are going to have to to come into play. Yeah, we're going to have. To be able to have all those personalities. Right in a in a part of the world that none of them have been to. Well, I don't know, maybe MEN has, but I mean, because it seems like MEN is going everywhere. But Elaine has enough training to to know, you know, she knows how everything works. She, she knows the world.

2:25:06 She may not have been there, but she's been schooled on everything. So. She's going to have to keep an eye need of her attitude in check though. Yeah, we'll see. Good luck with that. I think that's, I think that's everything. Everything, I mean, this was, this was a fun episode and I do see what you say about the episodes getting better. Yeah, this was a solid 9. Yeah, yeah, it was a good episode. I mean, we got to see all of them. We got to see some some exposition, some story moving forward. We got to see some some fun stuff because Land trying to be Moraine's wing woman. I mean wing man is that was interesting and also they both smiled in this episode. That is a rarity.

2:25:54 That is a rarity. So I was like, OK, this is cool, but so the next episode, episode 4. It's the one that turned me on the series. OK, this is the one that turned you on the series because you said that you don't care how much they stray from the books. Now they can do whatever they want. They. Want on what happens in the next episode? I'm so interested to see what that episode entails and what made you have that opinion. That's that should be a fun discussion because I don't know you're going to be talking so positively about everything.

2:26:35 I don't know how we're going to, how we're going to. It's going to be fun. Well, you have any final thoughts on this episode? I don't this was a solid 9 out of 10. There was a lot of it wasn't any action. Well, it was some action at the end, but there was a lot of good. Well, I guess it was a lot of action. There was the Red Wedding in the beginning. That's not action. That was a slaughter, that. You can't. Call it action if the other side couldn't defend themselves. Yeah, we, we had a lot of tops spinning, you know, some stuff being set up, lot of exposition. We got some history. It's it's going to be this was a good solid setup, expository episode.

2:27:24 It was pretty good. I agree and I have nothing more to add to that. So that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel, you can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.