Dragon Con 2024 Recap - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #306

0:24 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Anthony and Mike and we are discussing Dragon Con 2024. Yay yay Dragon Con has come. So much fun. And we had so much fun and we were so busy, and we got to talk about a whole bunch of nerdy things. And we want to talk about it a little bit. But before we get into our Dragon Con discussion, we wanted to just do a little bit of an aside because a few hours ago it was announced that James Earl Jones, at age 93, passed away.

1:14 And this man has an extensive resume, but for those of us who are nerds, we know him mainly from three things. And that is Coming to America, The Lion King and the Star Wars franchise as the voice of Darth Vader. So. It's a voice that launched 1000 fandoms. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you didn't mention The Sandlot, which he's known for. It's like. I was going to say that The Sandlot is is amazing that movie. I mean, his, his fences on Broadway, like his, his performance on Fences on Broadway was just like, I mean, he, I mean, Denzel was good in the movie, but him on Broadway was just even way more intense than that. I mean, he had, he's had such a long and illustrious career and a respected career is that he's one, he's one, one of the few actors that is respected across the board, across gender, across race, across political belief, across any belief. He was one of the most respected actors of all time. Like everybody, I mean, even nerds and non nerds, like they knew him from something, whether it was Lion King, whether the Star Wars, whether it was just being the voice of CNN. It's like they knew who he was and oh. God.

2:37 I forgot about that. This. CNN yeah, but it's like he's, he was so respected across the board that is like he was the epitome of like trans transcendent. Like he was literally, he literally was trans like transcendent in the in show business. It's a great loss, but I mean 93 years is a hell of a run. Right. And he was still working up until like recently. Yeah. So that wouldn't. Last Yeah, he did. Yeah, he did some, he did some voice work for one of the Star Wars shows. Can't remember which one off top of my head, but yeah, he, he outside of Darth Vader, like he's just amazing.

3:30 One of the things that, you know, when I learned how he used to stutter and how he overcame that was really it really touched me somewhere because, you know, growing I have a list and growing up, for me, it was it wasn't difficult to speak, but I didn't like talking. I didn't like talking because people make fun of my list. And so, you know, and then having a deep voice as well, even, you know, in middle school was, was something I always had to contend with. And he sort of, you know, I think I read an interview that him talking about that just made me, you know, really want to try to overcome that. So yeah, he'll, he'll always have a special place for me. I mean, he had he has to be special. Like he made he made a pretty, when you look at him, a pretty despicable character, one of the most liked characters in fandoms, like one of the most copied. Like one one of the most.

4:40 I mean, we really talk about Dragon Con during the parade. How many how many Darth Vader's do you see wanting to be like one night? And he wasn't even the actor. He was just the voice. And his voice inspired people to love that character. Like how many people go around calling themselves Sith because of him. Yeah. So going back to what Anthony was saying, he did do recent Star Wars stuff. The most recent was in 20/22. He voiced Darth Vader in the Obi Wan Kenobi show. Yeah, Kenobi. Show. Yep, he also did Episode 9, he did Rogue One, he did Star Wars Rebels, and those are just all within the last couple of years. Of course he did coming to America too. You know, he's known for The Lion King, Return of the Lion, return of the roar, the Lion Guard. I mean, he did The Big Bang theory. Like there's so much on here.

5:44 Jack and the Beanstalk. He did house he did 2 1/2 men welcome home Roscoe Jenkins Scary movie for like his his filmography goes all the way back to what is this 1962 is what I see maybe a little bit. No excuse me, no man, I'm wrong 1952 he was on guiding light. I did remember that I do. I do know that so he did soap operas 1952 guiding light. He did as the world turns so, so much stuff, such a long career, such a long life. Like you said, my transcended all types of genres, all types of like just entertainment in a nutshell. So, you know, life well lived, job well done. Rest in peace, good Sir James Earl Jones. Yeah.

6:51 That was. That was a hard 1, though. Like, even though 9093 is good, but we have lost some really good legendary actors, especially like recently, recently, because we also lost Donald Sutherland not too long ago, who also had a huge long career. But OK, let's move along. Let's talk about Dragon Con. Yeah, so for those of you who listen to us and who follow us, you know that Dragon Con is like the big con for us, not just as a podcast, but just as nurse in general.

7:35 Anthony, you've been going. This was your 24th year at Dragon Con. 24th year at Dragon Con. I'm going to be like you and I grow up. Me and my amazing little 17 years it's. Me and my music. 20. 6, 5-6. That's OK. It's OK. It's. OK, you catch up because? I know some people who are still like, I still haven't been to Dragon Con, and I have people who come up to me. I'm a goat this year. I'm like, yeah, right. I ain't going to see you. And one panel someone was like, man, if you had known this would be your 24th year, will you have bought the eternal membership?

8:16 Hell yes, Because I think when I start, I started coming in 2007, I think the eternal membership at that time was like maybe $750, maybe it. May have been, I think it was a little more than that, but yeah. It might have been, but either way it goes, Yes, if I'd have known, I'd have taken some of that tax money and bought me an eternal. And bought an eternal membership, yeah. Because now it's like what, 4000 dollars 4500? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've met a couple people at Eternal membership. They they get some pretty interesting perks. Yeah, but it.

8:57 It. I would hope so, but. For $4500 you better I I better be the Grand Marshall of the parade. Who you talking? They need to throw in a hotel room. I remember I love dragon con, but I don't love dragon. I remember years ago, I was, I was trying to talk to Rachel Lutrell from Stargate. And like there was that that was when you could literally walk up to people, you know, walk up to celebrities and whatnot. And, and they literally brought this guy over and kind of moved me out the way to talk to her. And it was the eternal member. I was like, really?

9:40 OK. Really. And she's like, OK, I'm sorry about that. They did their thing, you know, chatted him up and then he went off and she's like, wow, that. That was really rude. That's it. Yeah. But there was. That was an eternal member. I. Mean. I don't think they do that for them anymore. But hey, you know, you pay for it. You pay for it. That's true, but it's like now with it being like $4000, like if you buy your membership immediately after Dragon Con or while Dragon Con is still going for the following year, right now it's $100. That means in order for me to get my money's worth like I could, that's 4045 years. I don't know if I can do it.

10:24 Dragon Con at 100, I struggled doing it for at 49 I felt every one of my 49 years. This year, I don't know where it was. Those heels were a little bit harder. The sun was a little bit hotter and it was just, it was so many bodies. The, the Walk of Fame on, I want to say was either Friday night or Saturday. It was so ridiculous trying to get in there because the line literally it, it curved around the waiting area and then it curved past the charity booth. It I mean, it literally curved all over.

11:04 Like they had to tell people who was going to like our panels. We do a lot of panels on the American sci-fi fantasy media track, which is up under like the, the main level of the Marriott. So you go under the escalators and the line for the Walk of Fame was there and people had to tell them to move. They were like, no, we need this space to line up our people for our panels. And I was like, I've never, ever seen it like that. I. Don't know anything about that because all of our panels are in the Marriott so. You know what? Whatever. Whatever. That's the. Marriott. No, but I didn't have to walk up in the heels. I didn't have to go back and forth between hotels. We don't care.

11:50 That you didn't need to get your steps. You didn't need to get. Your steps. I got mine, man. Was that was that the one with you? Me, Michelle and Burma. I don't know, it was one of the other panels. Do we go Saturday? No, I'm saying we were in line for the Walk of Fame. Trying maybe? Yeah, yeah. I didn't even get to, I didn't even get to go to the Walk of Fame this time. Like I did not step foot inside of there. And I really wanted to get Michelle Hurd's autograph. Yeah, I went in there twice. Yeah, I went to Michelle Hurd's autograph. But and I I saw Nathan Filion, but I also saw Nathan Filion's line and I was like.

12:37 He was part of the reason for that longest line. I went, I think Mike and I went at the same time. We went on Friday, like Friday afternoon because we just wanted to walk through and kind of get an idea of where everybody was, if we were going to do like autographs or selfies. And I walked through and there was some lines where there was nothing, like, I think the two of the kids from the Avatar Netflix series, at the point that I walked past them, they didn't have anybody in their line. But then you walk around the corner, it's like, oh, my God. I think Nathan Filion had a huge line. Ross Marquan had a huge line. Manny Jacinto had a huge like, yeah. Ming Na didn't even have Ming Na didn't even have that long line. I was shocked at that.

13:28 It was kind of a couple of times I've seen me nod, I've walked up to her because there was no one there like. But this is also not her first time. She's a dragon. Con so it could be this a lot of because because I'm one of those people I know there are some people who will go and meet the same celebrities over and over and over again. I'm I'm not one of those people. I can't afford that. But so I don't know, maybe it's because Ming Na has been here before. A lot of people who were here probably have already seen her. But like Nathan Filion, I think he's had to cancel the last couple of times. He was supposed to come to Dragon Con for filming. So this was the first time he was like, actually there. Alan Tudick was there.

14:15 You know, it was like a whole bunch of other people. But yeah, we walked through that Friday and I was like, OK, I may try to come later. And then I tried on Saturday and Saturday was not hitting it. And then I think I walked through on Monday before our panels just to see who was left and it was a ghost town. So I was like, OK. Yeah, we all catch those Monday flights to get mad here. Yeah, yeah. I mean, there were a couple of people who were still around, but yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't any of it because I think most of the quote UN quote big people, we're still doing panels. So they were on panels that afternoon because I think the last big panel was like 2:30. So, yeah.

15:00 So this, I think this was my first year that I didn't do anything in the Walk of Fame. So I didn't get an autograph. I didn't. Yeah, I know. This is my first year. I didn't even walk through there at all. Yeah. First time ever so cool. Have not grown. Walk of Fame. Because I walked past a couple of people and saw them like in the hall, like Brett Dalton from Agents of SHIELD. Grant Ward walked past me and I was like, I know I've met this dude before. I did not realize he was this tall, so he walked past me. I think Bonnie Wright walked past me once. That's Jenny Weasley from the Harry Potter series. And somebody else walked past me and I was just kind of did a double take and I was like, oh, OK.

15:44 But yeah, no, I was in panels all weekend, which was great because. Yes, I saw. I saw rikishi. And you know, it wasn't rikishi. Yeah, I'm sorry. And then and then, oh, oh, but hold on. But we also saw when we came out of our panel, we saw. Hold on. His name is Tanoi Reed, the rock stuntman. Like it was. It was me, Hanukkah and our. Friend Dina and I think Calvin was that there was there's like a whole group that I hang around with off and on during Dragon console we. Were it's like, it's like we're just standing there taking pictures of cosplays and I look and I'm like, wow, that is a really good Black Adam cosplay.

16:29 I'm going to take his picture. So I go over there and look and it's him and I'm like, and who I was with him was like, you want a picture? I was like, do you mind? He's like, yeah, I guess like I guess he had been taking pictures. Like everybody been coming up to even take a pic. I'm like, thank you. So I take 2 pictures with him. I'm like, dude, I follow you on Instagram. You're great. He's like, oh, cool, thanks dude. I'm like, yeah, that go back. I'm like that's, that's, that's the double. That's him. That's actually him like in the actual costume. And they're like, everybody's like what I'm like. It's him. A couple of my friends took off. Yeah, it's like the relis was like help. Like she she literally wouldn't like Speedy Gonzales. I was like, yo, like I think she always knocked me over.

17:12 And see, I had seen him upstairs because I think Mike realized who it was 'cause I showed him a picture. I was like, yo, there's a guy who's dressed as Black Adam and he looks really, really like similar. He looks almost like the rock. And I showed it to Mike. He was like, think I follow him on Instagram. I was like what I. Was like, that's right. I was like, I was almost like, oh shit, that's him. Like oh fuck, that's why I went over there. Yeah, I went over there and did a better picture because my picture was blurry and he was the one who was like, you want to get in the picture with me? Yes, Absolutely. Yes. He was really cool about it. Like he was really fucking cool. He had a relish throwing her hair like. That's just that's.

17:57 Just my girl that was awesome. But I mean that, but I mean he was really cool about and that's one of the things you like about Dragon Con is like the stars that know know that you're going to come up and get pictures with him in the wild. And then as long as you're respectful, they're like cool. Come on. Yeah, and the the cost, OK. So I took I had to take in about 400 pictures maybe. I usually take anywhere between 3 and 700 pictures of cosplay at Dragon Con every single year. How is it that I still there were still people I did not come across like the.

18:39 Because it's 80,000 people, that's why that's. Why people? But. And you know what? I stopped. The funny thing is, I was listening to our, I was listening to our episode of X-Men 97 earlier today and we were talking about the Magneto up on the thing with the, the underwear. And I was like, you know, we're going to see a million of them in Dragon Con. I did not see one single Magneto strapped up to the thing. I'm I'm, I'm upset. But I did see a couple of worms from them. I did see those.

19:20 Did you see? The popcorn bucket, someone? Came. Someone came dressed as the Dune popcorn bucket. Oh wow, wow. I just on the on the picture thing. So having gone 24 years, those first 10 or 11 years I took a lot of pictures. I'm I'm sure I took well over 3 or 4000 pictures. I can't do it no more. I can't. I can't. I took one picture this time because this guy had a really cool looking War Machine costume that that was functional, like the helmet would go up and down. So I took a picture of him because he kept like Don Cheadle.

20:07 Yeah, yeah. He he, the guy looked, he looked just like Don Cheadle. I. Took a picture of him. Yeah, he was. That was the only the only picture I took of, well, besides Bailey of cosplay really. Yeah, damn. But I don't take any. It has to be something that a I've never seen before or it's just so rare to see. I will take a picture of it, but it is few and far between for me. Wow. Because it's all used to do sit. Sit in the Hyatt or the Marriott and just take pictures of cosplay. And so you can't really do that anymore because it's so crowded, right? It was so crowded, Yeah.

20:51 Yeah, you have to follow them around. I think when when a relist and I first started going in 2007, I think the first few years, this was before I started doing panels. So literally I'm on the con floor all day when I'm not going to panels. And there will be a cosplay that we would see like across the building and we would literally Sprint to go get that picture. And she she started calling her and my other friend chances. They used to start calling me the Conor Razzi because they were like, oh, Hanukkah's going to get there. You can't do it now. Like I'll I'll go a short distance, but it's so many people and it's so hard to get through. Then I'm like, OK, you know what? I was at some point, I'll see them at some point. But there was some really good costumes this year and I was like, I wish I could get more, but unfortunately my phone couldn't hold all of that.

21:47 I had to come home and clear out my my phone because between taking pictures, trying to record panels, my phone was like, bruh, we limited on space. I didn't get a chance to. I didn't get a chance to take a lot. But I mean, I didn't even set foot in the Hilton at all this year. And I know there was some other, I know there are people who like hang out in the Hilton. For the most part, you find your your usual cosplayers that hang out in the Marriott, like especially certain certain cosplayers who do the same, the same elaborate costumes every year. They pretty much know where their spot is. They know where people going to come find them and you know, kind of stick there.

22:34 I just didn't have time to go to the this year I did. Yeah, but back in the day, back in the day, like the Marriott level was where all the really good cosplayers were and it was on the atrium level. And then like they got crowded. And so the last time I took pictures, I did in in the Hyatt. No, in the Hilton, because people were going to the Hilton lobby and they were just standing there. You could take pictures and it never got crowded like the Marriott on on the Atrium and the Marriott and the Marquis. But. That's because everybody's on the back steps at the Hilton taking, doing the photo shoots.

23:15 That's probably. Why right? And I hate that I didn't get to go to any photo shoots. I didn't get to take any pictures of photo shoots this year, but luckily. Yeah, Bailey missed the Sailor Moon photo shoot. She wanted to do that. Yeah, I went to the Deadpool woman's Crip was so good. Like holy shit. And you know, we didn't see as many Deadpool as I thought I would. I didn't see as many as I thought I would. Yeah, as I thought I would. I didn't see. And I couldn't even get a good picture of a Deadpool and a Wolverine because every time I saw like, especially like the really good ones, there was one guy who looked like eerily like Hugh Jackman. But they're way over there and I'm way over here. And I was just like, OK, maybe tomorrow. Not one I didn't get, I don't think. I got one pair of Deadpool and Wolverine. I got a few Deadpools, I got a few Deadpool variants. I got AI, got a nice pool.

24:21 But yeah, I didn't get the two of them together. And I was so sad. It's like I remember when Loki came out, we thought we would see a lot of Loki variants. We didn't see that many Loki variants. Yeah, well, yeah, because everybody was doing. Yeah, people were doing the same Loki variance. We we kept seeing the same. Ones right? The same President Loki. President Loki, right? The alligator Loki or yeah so but but yeah, I expected to see more, especially because we usually see Deadpools all over the Dragon Con anyway, so. There was a Deadpool Stormtrooper. It was a Deadpool Stormtrooper.

25:05 Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying. I didn't have my phone out so I missed that. Missed the picture for that one but that that was. Kind of I may have gotten that one. I don't remember. I I do know that there was a, there was AI think I saw a pink one, yeah. There was pink. Yo the the pink, the pink one in the in the dress. In the ballerina. Skirts. The ball scene was like, maybe I didn't see the skirt, but I saw I saw a pink stormtrooper. OK. Yeah, there's like, there's like an inflatable Pikachu Deadpool that I saw. I did see that one, Yep. Yes, I saw that one.

25:46 Yeah. I did get, yeah, 'cause I did get a chance. I happened to be sitting on the floor charging my phone when the dinosaur parade came by me and I was like, oh, I actually get to see it from the start. So that was great. That was the inflatable dinosaurs. And then the following night I got to watch the Mando March and I think we literally. Oh my God, that was crazy. And record. It was like a 4 1/2 minute March with mandalorians of all shapes, sizes, colors, variations. It was. And it just did not end. It just kept going. I was just like, This is why I love Dragon Con, because we get to see stuff like this. It's a thing.

26:34 But I like the March of the Ills. I missed it this year. Billy and I catch it every year for some reason. We're always catching it, always catching it. I missed, I think, I think what happened though. I think I was on a panel at the time so that that's probably why. But. This was Bailey's third year. Bailey's my 6 year old daughter. This was her third year. This was her first five day. So she came with us OK? She came with, did she come with us Friday? So she came with us Saturday and Sunday, OK, but but she cosplayed both days. OK.

27:18 Which she's she's up on me on cosplay because she's cosplayed every year. But that's neither here nor there. So yeah, I was in the Marriott all day doing panels most of the time. But the cool thing was being able to hang with her. Having gone 23 years now, I've been to a lot of things. Those kind of cool to watch to be to be around people like Mike who haven't gone a lot because you get to see and experience it with them all over again. And so experiencing with Bailey and going to her track, she likes the Silk Road, which is a track that has a lot of the Asian influence stuff, anime, all that stuff. And I will tell you this, if there's any track that needs a larger room, it is them because every panel has a line. Every panel fills up.

28:18 I swear we spend most of the Sunday in there. It is. It is in. It's in the. It's in the Hilton. Oh, OK. Right. Yeah, It's in the Hilton. Oh. Yeah, 'cause those rooms are kind of small. Well, they're long. They're not wide. Oh, OK, OK. But but for the number of people that are interested, it's really not enough. But I don't think there are any other large rooms that they can go in. But, you know, I've gone to panels on a lot of tracks where they'll have a packed panel and then there'll be a panel with like three people in it.

28:59 The Silk Road, always a full house. Always. But that's where she spent most of her time. And, and it, it was kind of fun. I was with her. Michelle was with her a lot on Saturday. Or we would walk her to the room and then drop her off, you know, in line and then go do our thing. But I went to like maybe 3 or 4 panels with her on Saturday. But it, it was fun. It's always fun to see you know someone new experience Dragon Con. Right. Especially a younger person. I just wanted to say that especially, Yeah, especially a young person, yeah. Yeah. Let's. Talk about these panels a little bit. What was your what was your favorite panel that you attended? Not one that you were on, but one that you attended. Oh.

29:52 Yeah, I got to be honest. You gave us these questions before, before I don't I. Don't think, I don't think, I don't think I had time to attend. I don't think I attended any other than mine because I had like I had 11 problems. I had 11 and it's like they were all over there and like, and I know Saturday I was walking all over the place because I started, I started into Courtland, then I walked over to the over to the Marriott, Then I walked up to the West and then I walked back to the Marriott. So let. Me tell you, the Uber Bird scooters were my best friend Dragon Con weekend because when I had to get from one end of the earth to the other, that's what I did because there were so many people walking and it was so crowded. I was like, I can't be late.

30:40 I I was almost late for my Outlander panel on Sunday. I had to come from the West End and I, I caught myself going through the Marriott because the streets were so crowded. I was like, OK, let me do that. I ended up seeing a friend of mine that I had not seen the entire con. So I stopped saying hey to her. And then I literally got like I told Michelle earlier, I got discombobulated. I was like, do I not have anywhere to be until 4:00? And I was like, no. And I started walking. And then I get a message from Anthony and he was like, we're waiting for you at the court. I'm like, oh, wait, I have to go all the way down there. I'm thinking I'm supposed to be in the Marriott. I was like, wait a minute, let me get on this scooter and come on down the street.

31:24 But. Yeah, Michelle was texting me and he's like, Hanukkah was not here yet and they're holding, they're waiting to let anyone in until Hanukkah. Told me. I was like, I was trying to get there, but it was it was so many people. And again, this was also the same day that the downstairs was so packed. And I was like, I don't know why I thought going this way would be better because I was going away from the Walk of Fame. It didn't matter. It didn't matter. It was crowded. I was like, OK, so let's just do this. Let let me hurry up and get downstairs. Let me get one of these scooters. Let me go down the street. I was like, OK, I'm good. But so I. I did like.

32:07 I did like your Deadpool trilogy panel though. You mean you mean the Deadpool trilogy that turned into a basic MCU panel? It really did. It did that that panel got Co opted, but it it was a lot of fun to be on that panel and and talk about Deadpool and talk about the MCU. Talk about MCU panels are always fun. Like we always have so much fun. And you know, I know that we have to keep the panels an hour. I don't know the logistics that goes into planning Dragon contract panels. I don't even want to know because that's a lot of work. Just from the little bit that I talked to the track directors when they're trying to figure out where to place people, I'm like, no, I couldn't be distressed. It's a lot, but a lot of those panels, especially the MC, anything having to deal with any Marvel topic whatsoever, I really feel like those could be hour and a half long panels, maybe even 2 hour long panels.

33:07 Because like for the Deadpool trilogy, when we started talking about Deadpool, but of course with Deadpool and Wolverine, we go into the whole sacred timeline, the TVA, the multiverse. And so it just kind of went from there and we got off track and then we tried to pull it back in and then it went off track again. So it went back out. At some point we're just like, OK, we're just talking. I mean that I think I think those are the best panels anyway when especially when you have a lot of crowd participation because this was on a, this was a Monday 230 panel. This is the last one of the last panels of the entire Dragon Con. We had a full room on a Monday at 2:30 and we had a lot of audience participation.

34:00 It was so much fun and I was like do we really have to get up? That was that was so much fun. I think for me I only got to attend. I think I attended 3 panels total and for me the fun one was Mike's panel on I think it was Sunday night they did on the. Face off panel. And it was face off. So basically we were doing bracket style tournament for the movies of John Travolta versus the movies of Nicolas Cage. It's. So much fun. I think that's the first panel I've ever attended on the sci-fi Classics channel. Sci-fi classic track because I'm always. Shame on you.

34:53 Well, I'm always on panels during times when there's stuff that I want to go to. So I'm just messing with. You that particular one, I stayed late because the last few years I've I've left kind of early on Sunday night. But this year I decided I was like, OK, I'm going to go stick my head into the Yule Ball And then, oh, Mike has a panel at 10:00. You know what? I'm feeling pretty OK. I wasn't, I wasn't zonked like I thought I would be. I was like, OK, I'm going to go to this panel. When I tell you that is the most fun I think I've had at a panel, aside from the panel we did on Saturday night, which was the worst person in Westeros, which was also kind of bracket style. That panel.

35:42 First of all, some of the movies people threw out for Nicolas Cage and John Travolta. Now, I'm not familiar with all of the filmography for both of those. There are certain movies of theirs I like. In certain movies, I'm like, but people were pulling out movies and I was like, I haven't heard of that movie in like 30 years. Why did that? Why was that the first one that came to your mind? And then we have to go. Broken Arrow? Broken Arrow had to be on the list I think. Broken Arrow was on the list. That that movie is amazing. It it is. The thing the thing about it is though, for for all the movies mentioned, for both of both actors, for the panel to be called the face off, nobody mentioned their characters from the face off. And I was like, I'm so disappointed in all, I think. That would have been kind of obvious. They should have been on.

36:36 I mean, I mean, I think they probably should have been like, you know #1 sees, if we're going to name this should just been #1 sees. But I mean, at least see they should, they should have been on the list. Let's just put it that way. I think it should have been on the list 'cause there's some of their been. But you know, I like the fact that people kind of thought outside the box and brought in like even some of the most more obscure of their films. I I kind of like that because, OK, yes, the, the title of the panel was face off bringing in those two characters. That would have been too obvious. Let's let's use our brains a little bit. And I love the fact that people were doing that because somebody said Bolt and I was like, we're really going to bring the dog movie in.

37:19 And that was like such a big thing. That did come, that came out of left, that did kind of come out of left field. Because Nick was like if y'all eliminate the dog, y'all are horrible and the dog. Lasted 2 rounds. But the dog got eliminated. But like, I was sitting here listening to some some of the other movies that they were bringing in and like you said, Anthony, you like OK, Broken Arrow had to be one. I'm really disappointed that nobody said Hairspray for John Travolta. I'm so disappointed because that definitely should have been one. But that when I say. I really want, I wanted them to do, I wanted them to do Superman from the Flash. I just wanted someone just to say Superman from the Flash. I thought about that too, but the fact that it was like a cameo and not like we didn't really get to see him do anything.

38:12 So it's. Still Nicholas Cage's Superman, though it's still Nicholas Cage's Superman. But when I say that panel was loud and full of chaos and the sci-fi classics track they have on the back table, they basically had like a, a, a a trading like a grab and go type thing where you can bring in stuff and you can take stuff. So they have like movies. I got I got a spider Gwen, Funko Pop. They had something else. Yes, I did. I did shout out to Gary, shout out to Gary and Gary. Shout out to Joe, those guys are awesome. And Gary's podcast of our mother Amontillado, he's had me on that show a couple of times.

39:06 He's he's good. Oh, and Nick, because Nick has, Nick has been adopted. Nick, Nick has been adopted by the track. Good. He should be. This is Jimmy. This is Jim. But they had back there on the, the table, somebody donated a, a whole bag of plastic kazoos and nobody was taking the kazoos. So what they did was before the panel started, they went by and they started helping out the kazoos. And there was there was there was a couple of people sitting behind us and they're making all of these comments about how to use the kazoos and how to make them, you know, how to make the sound come out of them.

39:54 And some of the comments were not appropriate. And we were just in there dying laughing. And then as the panel goes on and we're starting to do like the voting and everybody's talking to, you know, pros and cons for each movie, people start using the kazoos. So it gets to a point where. Badly. They start blowing the kazoos and it was like I said, it was the most purest fun chaos I have been in in a panel. It's like some of some of them didn't was like blister hearts. They had no idea what they were doing. It's like, you know, they were like.

40:34 It was like it was fun. Children. Everyone devolved into a bunch of kids. Yes, we. Did they did It was. 10:00 on a Sunday night. Yes, we were. We were awesome, Yeah. There's nothing wrong with that. There's Dragon Con. There's. Nothing wrong, right? Oh, it's Dragon Con. I loved it. I don't feel like I got to go to a lot of panels, but the two that I really liked were were Smallville top five episodes because there was a lot of nostalgia Mat and I forgot about some episodes that were like really, really good. OK, so that was in that was the classic track. That was that was fine.

41:16 And the other one was your panel. I think you you did the Rogue Prince. Yes. Damon Targaryen. Damon Targaryen. That was a great panel. That was a great panel. That was fine. That was a lot of fun. That was a lot of fun. Because because we're, we're debating, you know, we're talking about Damon Targaryen, the, the rogue Prince, the one who is like in the show, such a complex character. But in the book, what was it Tara kept saying? She kept saying he was so evil in the book. And she just kept iterating. Oh, no, she was doing that more so for the worst, worst person in Westeros. House of the Dragon Edition panel.

41:57 Or she did it more. Oh well, in in this panel, she was like, she, she's like, I'm just amazed. And all of you people like him because in the book he's terrible. In the text he is awful. It was even worse for the worst person because basically what the high fantasy track did was they put a poll out on their Facebook page like maybe a week and a half, two weeks before Dragon Con. And they wanted people to vote for who the worst person in Westeros was for House of the Dragon. And then what they did was they took the top 8 and they made brackets. So it was basically whoever got the, you know, the votes, they put them in brackets and then we had to debate them on why.

42:42 And The funny thing is, at the end of that panel, the popular vote was that Larry Strong was the worst person in Westeros. And Tara kept saying over day. It. Was such a those House of the. Shout out Tara. Hey, Tara. Shout out Tara. We shout not everyone. She was Speaking of Tara. She was like you were surprised when you saw her on your Walking Dead panel. I was because I only ever like I've done panels. With only ever seen her in high fantasy. And it's always on high fantasy.

43:24 So when she was on Walking Dead, I was like, hey, And then when she did the when we got to the road panel, she said I was on the I was just on the panel with one of your Co hosts. I said Anthony, She said yes, she said. And I didn't. She said I didn't put two and two together until he said fandom hybrid podcast. And I was like, so. So yeah, yeah, I, I was surprised, but let me tell you, that Walking Dead panel was so much fun. It was so much fun. And that is another panel and another topic, especially because we were talking about the expanded universe. That's another one that could have been an hour and a half, two hours, because people had a lot to say.

44:07 Yeah. So. I'm going to throw in the machine back dark matter. We we went to a panel on dark matter and because we debated about the show, well, we argued about the show and the show was on the the the argument kind of spilled over into the panel and people were like, are, are y'all going to be OK? You know, 'cause we were at Conjuration, because we were at Conjuration and we were on the we were on, I was on the panel the house for like classifying characters into a house.

44:49 We're doing Strange New Worlds. She was in the audience and we were going back and forth about one of the characters. So, you know, but there people like, oh, these are very cute, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, here people like, are y'all going to be OK? Because we were sitting next to each other and we were going back and forth. We might as well have been on the panel, to be honest with you. But it was, it was a lot of fun. We had a lot of. Fun. So y'all basically do what y'all do on the podcast when y'all are on here? Yeah, yeah, I told someone you should, you should watch the podcast. You should, you should come to the YouTube and watch the podcast and you'll, you will see look up the House of Dragon podcast and right. Right, like you will see this we're we're good, we're good. This is a regular thing from.

45:38 We we're good. This is, this is normal. First, because I was sitting next to her and I was like, OK, so I, I always have this argument with someone and I'm pointing to her behind her head. And then some of the pals, I'm assuming that the person you're talking about is sitting here because actually before that Michelle raised her hand, she's like, no, no, no, no, no. And she went automatically into the argument. And I was like, see, see. Oh, I wish I could have been there for that. It was, it was, it was hilarious. I wish I could have been there for that. OK, so I have a question since you're talking about that show, because there was another show called Dark Matter that came out like years ago. That's not the same show is it?

46:26 The same show 2. Two. No, it's two different, 2 totally different, 2 completely different. OK. Yeah, OK. It was on sci-fi, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, OK, OK, so I've because I keep hearing people talk about dark matter, but I haven't done a lot of sci-fi lately. Mostly everything that I've been watching is like either superhero or fantasy stuff. So I kind of need to get back into my sci-fi groove, especially if we're going to Stellarfest next year, which is the new science fiction convention that the founders of Conjuration are doing in April. So I guess I need to get on my my sci-fi. Yeah, and and you know, dark matter is moving into that. There's a a comeback of hard science fiction shows, hard sci-fi shows are are real like 3 body problem. You know what's another one that's out as hard as sci-fi? SO3 body.

47:30 Oh, a show we didn't do. Oh, Beacon 23 is another one. OK, so yeah, the the those hard sci-fi is making a comeback. Oh, and constellation. Yeah, those, those even though you know people. Talk about that. Well, yeah, yeah, I guess Silo would be, yeah. And Silo Beacon 23 are written by the same author. So OK, that that should tell you if you watch Silo, but it tells you a lot about. Yeah, yeah, OK. OK, which is? Hello dark matter is on apple too. Y'all are missing foundation which is never hard sci-fi show. Y'all are missing all the good stuff. I look, I look.

48:13 Enough streaming platforms like. Look, we we got the free trial. We watched all of Ted Lasso. I'm good. I ain't gonna do all that good. OK. All the good hard sci-fi is on Apple. It's a beacon. 23 is on MGM Plus right? Anyway, it's easy either, but. Yeah, MGM had a OK, you know what? There's there's too much, there's too many streaming. From is on MGM plus too. And yeah, From is on MGM plus too. And you should people should watch from the things they know. I. Don't think I I don't think I could do from it looks good, but I'm just like, no, this is like I watch. I watch part of the.

48:55 Everything. Like I'm not going to get stuck in no town that I can't leave. And no, no, after dark. I don't even only I'm still, I'm still recently scared to the dark at 53. I'm not trying to get somewhere where I can't go outside and leave and walk out. Like, no, I mean, I'm not doing no, you going to get I'm not. I'm not going to have my life have my light bill go sky high because I got to leave lights on because I watch a damn TV show. It's like we're not doing that. I'm not doing that. Michelle loves the show. She loved it so much she had to track down where the track is opposed to me on and it's horror track. But yeah, she she had to because she's trying to find it. There's no panels on it.

49:43 It's no horror track. Just sitting there with no panels. But you know, there are a lot of PE came up on two panels I was on. It came up on Beacon 23 and it came up on one other panel I was on where they talked about from. So there's definitely interest in the show. People watch the show. It's just that, you know, and it's kind of hard because like even for the Beacon 23 panel I was on, it was only two audience members. And that's the hard thing about doing panels on the American South eye track is just people just aren't really watching a lot of those shows like Constellation. We were going to do a Constellation panel, but they had to cancel it because they want enough panelists for it. OK, OK.

50:31 And the Three Body Problem was packed, so it was all over the place, people all over the place and said you wouldn't think anyone would watch The Three Body Problem but I but that was that panel. You, you guys were saying there were a lot of book readers for that particular panel, right? Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of people who read the book and then there were a lot of people who watched the Was it Chinese show. Yeah, the show is a that show is 30 episodes. There are a lot of people who 'cause that's on Prime as well. There are people that watched that version, came to the panel. So the people watched that version, people read the book and people watch the show. So it was a packed house for that panel.

51:14 OK, OK, so let's talk about some of the other. So what were your favorites? Well, they might do your favorites. Is this your favorite? Yeah, he he's. Yeah, I mean, I only went to I like, like I said, I only went to, I went to Hanukkah's panel and I went to another 1. And in the American sci-fi track, which is slowly, slowly becoming my favorite track because there's like almost no rules. It's like it's total anarchy and it's fucking, it's fucking awesome. But I mean, I, I didn't have time. I, I just, there was so much stuff I had to do and it's like I 'cause I wanted to go, I wanted to go to your, your diversity panel that you did on your Star Wars diversity panel, but I didn't have time.

52:03 I. Heard, I heard it was really good. I, I wanted to go, 'cause Nick, Nick said he went. He was, it was actually, it was really good. Yeah, that's, that's one of the reasons why I do try to at least record some of the panels like the ones that I do, because I know that there are panels that you guys are interested in that you may not be able to get to because you're either on panels at the same time or going to panels. I think usually we get a chance to go to each other's panels, at least two or three of them. And I think this year we were all like on panels at the same time. So I, I did, I was able to get a recording of one of Anthony's panels they did over on the high fantasy track. They did a panel about the people of the ideal from the Wheel of Time series.

52:55 So that was a very interesting panel because even though we have not yet, and I'm stressing yet discussed Wheel of Time season 2. We have been introduced to the IEO in that season and it they're very interesting people, but of course, not being a book reader, I don't know much about them. So listening to you guys talk about them, I was like, I feel like I need to be taking notes and doing research because you guys were talking about like the different groups within the IEO and I was like, oh, I feel I. Know you got I spoiled you. No, it's. It's fine. Yeah, but I knew I would be when when I went to that panel. So, but I was like, I got to get to, you know, my whole thing was, so Mike did 11 panels.

53:44 I think you were on what, eight or five? You were on 8. I did I think 14. And over the course of the weekend, that's a lot of that's a lot of panels. But we aren't able to get to each other's panels because a lot of our panels were at the same time. So my thing was I was trying to at least get to one of each of y'all's panels so that, you know, I was like, OK, you know, we got to support each other. And just like you guys came to my panels and we were just kind of all over the place. But I really wanted to do. I think you were on the panel earlier that morning for the Night of the Seven Kingdoms for Game of Thrones.

54:28 Yeah, I was not getting up at 10:00 that morning. I just couldn't do it. So I was like, no, I just go to one of his other panels. And because Saturday was a slow day for me, I only did three panels and all of my panels were in the evening. So I had a little wiggle room during, during the daytime. So I was like, OK, I'm I'm gonna, I'm gonna go do this. And then your panel, I think your IE panel was, was it that afternoon or that night? It was one. Of those that I'm gone, it was one of those. It was, yeah. It was like, I think it was a 230. Yeah. Yeah. All five of my panels were Saturday. So my Saturday was blown 5 and they were back-to-back to back-to-back. That's how my Sunday was to back. That's how my Sunday was.

55:14 But Apollo is trying to can can you not mess with my camera please? Thank you. But I want to talk about your Acolyte panel, Anthony, how did that go? And I know we haven't, we haven't done Acolyte yet. I have. I actually have not watched it, but I know that Anthony, Mike and I think Lori are probably going to talk about it and we'll probably put out that show sometime either this month or next month. But you had a little trepidation going into that one, didn't you? Yeah, I was a little worried about the panel because you know, there's a lot of stuff going on about the act like you know, it it there's there's a lot of online chatter, a lot of Youtubers and all of X formerly known as Twitter. I still.

56:11 Probably Twitter. It's not X. And so I was a little worried because the one thing you don't want to do as a panelist is you really don't want to have the crowd turn on you, you know, and there's, you know, and we, we had this idea that we were not going to be negative because it's real easy to be negative about the show. The show does have some the show had problems. There's there's sure has a lot of problems. And I was worried that if we only talked about the positive, anyone who had negative things to say about it would go even further negative and get up and say anything.

56:54 Right. OK, but but that wasn't the case. You know, we were able to have a little bit of criticism up there. It wasn't completely, you know, totally yay act like. And there was some people in the audience who had issues and we talked about it. The the biggest thing, my biggest take away was the huge amount of support. Like there were a lot of people who came to that panel and there are a lot of people that like the show. It's just unfortunate that, you know, that's not enough people to carry the show to keep it from being cancelled, right. But it's obviously there's a, there's a small, relatively speaking, a small group of people that really like the show. OK, you know, I'm not in that group of people, but I didn't, I didn't, I got challenged a couple of times for some of the things I said, but it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. OK.

57:55 I did say some good things. There's some good things about the show, like the last the one of the last fight lightsaber battles is really choreographed really well. Yeah, that's so I did say something good about it. You know, I I did say something good about it. They had a diverse cast which is which is always good many the 1st. Live action first live action Bleeding of a kyber crystal. I mean, come on, you had to be excited about that, I'm saying. The look on Anthony's face.

58:36 You know what? You know what? Whatever. Anyway, I decorized. Yeah, we. So, so there's, there's, there's a, there's a dish you can make something that you make a soup and the soup is really, really good. Like this one time I had like some real good clam chowder. Like it was amazing cooking on the stove. I was tasting it and I was like all I just need is a little bit of pepper. So I turned the pepper shaker and someone had loosened the top and dumped all the pepper into it. Yeah. OK. OK, OK. So bleeding a kyber crystal? I'm supposed to like that after that? Was one that was one of my favorite scenes. I thought you would appreciate it. Fine.

59:21 You know what? I'm not. I'm not. We're not. Going to get into that debate now y'all. I'm. Not even going anyway. For when we were. I'm not even going to. Try it. Long story short, the panel was was fun. We had some good dialogue, and like I said, I was really, really amazed at the amount of positive support. And sometimes it's to be expected from Star Wars fans, which is what I think a lot that gets lost. We'll talk about this when Mike and I talk about back. Like it kind of got lost in the shuffle, but it was clear there are people that like the show, they liked a lot of things about it. And it's not just, and it was mostly Star Wars fans.

1:00:02 So you know, it was that. But you know, all my trepidation, you know, it was, I was worried for no reason turns out. And I was really, really worried that I was going to say something get slim like I did last year when I said I didn't care for Rogue One. And you would have thought I scanned the cat alive in front of 100,000 people. I think they all started to riot. So, you know, I was afraid that would. Happen this year. Yeah, I didn't have that experience this year. Now make sure you tell them. I don't know who that person was to say they did like Rogue One. I don't know who that guy was. I don't. I had a similar experience on one of my panels because I got to talk about Umbrella Academy Season 4, the final season. I don't know if you guys have watched. How did that go?

1:00:55 Not yet. Yeah, I did. So. The last last four episodes were trash. Yes. And we, we did discuss that. We didn't quite go the let's not go negative because I think the general consensus there was a lot of people agreed that the fourth season was not that great. There were a lot of problems. There were some like it was kind of convoluted. It was like, what are we supposed to be doing here? What are we supposed to be following? Why are we supposed to care about what happens to this character and why is she here? And so we we had some good discussions with it. There were a few fun things because we did talk about the things that we liked in the season. So, you know, a lot of people like the fact that Luther, you know what?

1:01:54 I was one of the people I, I was like, I just like the fact that Luther was just happy. Like Luther didn't have any burdens placed on him. He was, he was going around doing his little strip club job dancing with no rhythm and he was happy about it. You know, people loved the relationship between Claire and Klaus. That was like one of the sweet moments. People love the fact that Victor basically told Allison was like, OK, yeah, I know you fucked up. We ain't got to be friends. I'm good. You know? So there was some, there were a few good things. But I think, I think the room was kind of, I don't want to necessarily say split, but there were some strong feelings about the whole 5 Lila Diego situation that was going on there.

1:02:51 So we we did talk that out. But I think overall, pretty much everybody was like, we don't know what they were doing. Like what was the whole point? You you got rid of? Well, you know, you you get rid of of the Marigold just for the Marigold to show back up at the end. It was just it, it was really weird. But you know, that was one of those panels where I thought people would probably be more positive about the show and everybody was pretty much like it was trash. What the hell did we? So I mean, it's, it's just, it's one of those things where we we waited two years.

1:03:41 Was it 2 years or three? I think 2 years. But it's like this is what we. Waited two years. OK, but but I got to talk about some other really cool stuff too. Like I said, I did a a Walking Dead panel. I did a Last of Us panel where we talked about the show and the video games and Oh my goodness, I did not like, I knew that this game had a following, but there are some really, really passionate fans about this game. And I'm like y'all, I'm sitting there on the table like y'all are making me want to play this game and I don't have the time in my life to do this but. Their show is why I have APS 5 now. And then I if.

1:04:26 Somebody wanted to play The Last of Us. Yeah, yeah, they, they've, they've almost got me, but I, I don't have the time. I I can't do it. But we also did a Walking Dead versus The Last of Us, you know, talking about what that what? They. Yeah, it was. It was a really good panel. Those panels were were packed and we talked about everything. We talked about the graphic novel for The Walking Dead. We talked about the video games for The Last of Us. We talked about the shows and how they how they did things differently. And so basically that was also one of those where it's like we list the pros and we talked about it. We list the cons and we talked about it. And then everybody gets to vote which one they think did better. And the overall consensus was that The Last of Us is telling the story better.

1:05:18 But a lot of people also admit it. We're going on one season versus 11 and several spin offs. Like will they still be consistent if they go that long, which we are? I think, I think we already know The Last of Us is not going to go that long. So because I think the third season is supposed to be the final, but it was a really good conversation. And yeah, we we, we have fun with those. Mike, what about you? What was your favorite panel to talk about? I had a lot of them like I finally got to talk about my favorite show, Warehouse 13.

1:06:05 That that one, that panel was really good. There was a guy on the panel that actually brought that had like a collection of actual used props from the show. So he was like passing those around was really cool. I loved our Deadpool Wolverine panel. It was packed. It was like packed wall to wall and that was that was a lot of fun. I I did a Wolverine panel and I got ambushed because he went. To that one. It's like everybody was like, man, I hate Wolverine. They got to me like Mike, what do you think? I was like, I feel like I got kind of ambushed here. I actually like Wolverine the way they did. Yeah, that was like The Wolverine hater up there in there.

1:06:53 Like, yeah, they were. Haters. I was like, what the fuck? This is like the opposite of last year when I went to the Nevers, when I couldn't. Talk about John. Talk about when we shall not be named. I got I got jumped. I was like, what the what is wrong with you people? I was like, he's not bad. He is actually good. But that panel actually turned out to be a pretty good discussion about it. I really like that. Why? Is there so much Wolverine hate? Explain this to me. I think, I think, I think they it felt like people sometimes feel like we're overrated. That he get people just like. Laurie said something like that in our X-Men 97 discussion. Yes, she said that Wolverine is one of those characters that gets overused, so OK.

1:07:40 Yeah, overrated, Overused. There was a point when he was in everybody's books. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, I mean, Hugh Jackman can't help it that he played the character very well. I mean, it's like and they can't help that the character was shown pretty well in the X-Men cartoon. It's like people like the character. It's just like bat stands. I mean bat fans of Batman, it's like they love Batman. So it's like, I mean, I don't know, I didn't get it, but I was actually another panel that I thought that actually enjoyed that didn't think I was going to enjoy was double nut that that I think I was going to enjoy as much was the the John Constantine panel, because I didn't know a lot about him.

1:08:26 And that actually turned out to be a very good discussion. Yes, it did. I I did go to that one as well. Yeah, yeah. I was actually pleasantly surprised to do that. Shout to Ally. Got to be on panel with her again. She was on, I mean, Bethany. Shout to Bethany. Bethany is awesome. Yeah, I was on panel. I. Was a good panel. That one and the family dynamics one that we were on together was good too. That's another one that could have gone a little bit longer. You know, anytime we're talking about fictional family. You're obsession with these long ass panels. I'm just saying because a lot because what happens is some of these panels, when we get done with them, people come up to us after the.

1:09:11 Panel. And they want to continue the discussion. That is not a bad thing because that means that what you had to say was important to someone and the topic was interesting. So for some of these things, but I mean, we're talking family dynamics. And I mean, it's not too, it's not too different from what we do at conjuration when we're talking about others know worse and mothers aren't better. So it, it, it basically was like that, but we really started talking about a lot of the positives and, you know, fictional families and what, what sing, especially single parents and fictional families like what they do, right? And so that was a lot of fun because we, a lot of times, especially with our panels, we do focus on the negative because it has such an impact on the characters that we're, you know, that we follow that we're talking about. So we, we talked about whether or not that impacts them in a positive or negative way.

1:10:13 So this particular panel was talking about the positive aspect. It was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun and you know. Yeah, I like actually like, I mean, the Gen. V discussion was good. The Kingpin when I did Monday on like Monday was like one of my better, better days of better days of panels because I mean, I love the two that I did. I love the one you did. I mean it. I was like, I was just like, damn, it's the last day because the Deadpool war was pre packed out. But yeah, I I mean, I really can't complain about any of these, any of the ones I did. I mean that I'm I'm just blessed to be be asked to be on them. So.

1:10:57 Yeah. 11 panel that I enjoy being on was the Diversity in Star Wars panel. Yeah, because, you know, whenever we do any diversity. Panel. Discussion Diversity, it, it, it doesn't, it's always a really good conversation and, and, and sometimes that's usually all we need. Sometimes the fandoms need to sit down and have a conversation about about diversity and then how everything is being impacted because a lot of people don't sometimes see that it's not just what you see on screen is all the things that happened behind the scenes.

1:11:40 You know, the casting directors, the studio heads and executives and producers, all those people are the ones that influence everything. And one of the things I talked about was we also have to talk about the diversity. For example, that first season of The Mandalorian, the directors, it was a diverse set of directors on the show. They didn't have the same. Well, there were some directors, there were a couple of episodes, but for the most part, it was a diverse group of directors. And sometimes that's what you need to have, have a voice or a vision or even someone to say, yeah, we're going to do it this way. But you know, the industry has to change.

1:12:23 It just can't be, I don't want to throw act like under the bus. You just can't throw a diverse group of people on the screen and say we're diverse. It doesn't really work that way. You got you got to have it at the top. It's got to start. We talked about, you know, you got to have that one person in the room. Like with that Dove commercial, you got to have someone that's really black. You may not want to have a black person wash themselves with Dove soap and turn white. I don't think that's going to go well, you know, I mean you always. Got to have. Somebody, somebody in the room to say that's not going to work. Yeah, you, you. And that's what's missing. We don't have enough of it. The only thing that that I kind of was taken aback, taken aback by, and I hope she's not listening, but we were talking about corporations.

1:13:17 The biggest part of the conversation was in smaller media, you can have diversity. The Disney companies, like they don't care about that. The comic books, we had an author on stage and she was like, people would ask her, you know, we really need to have some, you know, by characters and some pan characters. And she's like, that's what I write in my Star Wars books. Like she writes Star Wars books and she has those kinds of characters in her books. So people want to see these things, but it's there. It's just that the industry only lets you do it in the comic books and the video games. That's small compared to the millions and millions of people that watch the TV or watch the movies. The amount of money they make in the television and movies is astronomical compared to comic books. So yeah, you can have a comic book with Doctor Aphra, who's a gay black woman in the Star Wars comic book or a novel. You can have that because they don't care about that. But what we need for them to do is to start caring about the bigger picture.

1:14:25 And that's why the failure of the Acolyte is so devastating, because they're going to be like, we gave it to you, we gave it exactly what you want, and nobody watched it. You know, nobody watched it. And we can put the blame on whoever or whatever caused it. All Disney knows is that it was a failure. And it was in an attempt to have a bunch of diverse people, a diverse cast in the show and nobody wanted to watch it. And the same thing happened to Willow. We did the same thing with Willow. Nobody wanted to watch it. It was so bad they pulled it off Disney Plus. So, you know, we do still need to have these conversations so people can understand what's really happening.

1:15:10 You know what, what are we really looking at when we talk about this? And we talk about this non diversity panels, what we do them at Conjuration or yeah, it's it's it's the same thing. You know, Anyway, it was a really good panel. It was a really good conversation. Oh, the lady, she was from Disney. She used to be. She worked at the Disney the Galactic Hotel. Oh. OK. And the reason why I brought it up was she talked about because we had I, I, I pretty much went in on the corporation, especially Disney. And she got up and she was like, yeah, I, I was the Hostess at the, at the Galactic Hotel.

1:15:53 And, you know, Disney really, really tried, you know, we had a diverse cast the cruise, because it's like a cruise ship. The cruise director was the black woman. And she just listed all these, you know, and, and the characters always stayed minorities or whatever. I really wanted to say, well, that kind of proves my point. I mean, it's like they have 3000 guests. Yeah. And you only have 3000 guests at most and on this thing for a week, and it's still small potatoes as compared to the millions of people that watch the shows and the millions of people that go to the movies. You're just talking about a small group of elite people that in the the only thing they care about is them paying money to go to the hotel. They don't care about the diversity of the cast. That's not important to them.

1:16:43 So, yeah, you can have a diverse cast in the Galactic Hotel because nobody cares. You can have a diverse cast in the in the park because it's in the grand scheme of things, the small potatoes. That's not what we're focused now. We're talking about focusing on getting diversity on the TV shows and in the movies where it reaches more people, where we want to see ourselves in those things. Video games is cool, but it's still a video game and it's still well on that because now video games is reaching just as many people as the movies are sometimes so and making just as much money as movies.

1:17:25 But even there they're starting to pull back because the Star Wars game had the white male character as the main character, you know, and so you know, and that them, that's them falling the track and the and the sideline. I didn't get to bring this up, but I remember reading somewhere that the people who created Star Jedi Survivor originally wanted Cal Kisses to be a minority and the studio told them Lucas Arts told them no, you can't do it because they already had several other minority characters for the game or or plan to be in the game. They're like no, you can't make the main character minority and and those are the kinds of things that needs to change. But anyway, it was a great conversation. OK.

1:18:12 But that was my favorite panel to be on. We had a similar conversation about morals and ethics on the Orphan Black Echoes panel. That one was an interesting one because if you're familiar with Orphan Black, the original series deals with the unauthorized making of clones illegal, you know, making of clones. And so Orphan Black Echoes takes place within the same universe, but it's like 30 years into the future, 40 years into the future. So it's taking place in like 2052 and you have the little girl from the original series.

1:18:57 She's the main character in this series. And even though she went through a lot of dangerous times with her mom, her mom was was the original clone or she was the original person that that was cloned. She kind of does something similar in the future. And it's about all of these choices afterwards. And you know, what's ethical, what's moral, because she couldn't let go of her wife. And so she basically created a copy of the wife so that she could try to fix what was wrong with the wife to keep her from dying. And so we had some of those similar conversations for that particular show. It, it was, it's very interesting because you have to sit there and think about, OK, so if I have the technology to fix something, to fix someone to, to cure a problem, but I have to basically make a, a copy of this person in order to fix that, you know, this person dies. I make a copy so that I can continue to do that. Like is that ethical?

1:20:09 Is that something that should be done? Does that person have a soul? It it it raised a lot of interesting questions. And if you guys haven't watched the show, either one of the shows, you really should because first of all, or in the original Orphan Black, Tatiana Mazlani is just like, she's like amazing. And then in the second show, it just kind of expands on that point and you're just kind of like you knew better and you still did what you did and what are the consequences for that and how do you deal with those kinds? It's very, very interesting that particular show, like some of the acting is not that great.

1:20:57 It's very clunky, some of the dialogue is very awkward, but it, it, it's an interesting show and the conversations that are had around it is just like, this is really stuff that we're discussing, you know, because they are in this day and age, they are doing 3D printouts of, you know, organs now to transplant into people. And so Orphan Black Echoes takes that and they put it on a whole level because instead of just, instead of just copying the, the organs, you are basically printing out a whole person, including their, their personality traits, their memories.

1:21:45 And all of this is accessible because basically by this point, the Census Bureau has data on every single person. And I mean medical records, dental records, financial information, all of your medical like brain scans, Mr. is X-rays, they have access to all of this stuff. And that is how this this kind of technology is going. And it's like scary because you really sit there and think about it like, oh, we could actually be doing this in a few years. And that's that's scary. And The funny thing is we did that panel on Skynet day. So, so it's kind of like, I don't know if I should be like impressed or afraid, but.

1:22:39 Yes, it's that is a show that I totally missed when it was coming on and you've convinced me I'm going to I'm going to go back and watch it. But this is on AMC Plus and I think. Yes, you should. Absolutely. We stopped our AMC. I think we stopped our AMC Plus subscription. You'll. You'll start. Yeah, I was going to say you'll you'll be starting it back in a couple of weeks because Daryl Dixon's new season starts. OK, that's when, that's when I that's when I watch it. I'll watch it, man. Yep. So so you'll have it, but yeah, I'm trying to think. So Mike and I did a panel together Supernatural Showdown, which I think for the last few years has been our Thursday night. Like that is our start to con to do Supernatural Showdown. So for the last three years we've done seasons. So we did like seasons one through 5 the first year, six through 10, the 2nd 11 through 15 last year. And so this year we started doing the characters. And so all of us were assigned a character at random and we had to we have 4 minutes to talk about why this character was so important to the show.

1:23:54 And then the audience got to vote who gave the best argument. So I think my cat cast, I had Crowley and we all had some good arguments. I think let's see, somebody had Bobby, somebody had Mary Winchester and Rowena. I think, wait, let me see. Yep. Bobby, Cass, Crowley, Jack, Mary Rowen. OK, yes. So we had six panelists, those 6 characters. And it's so funny because the person who got booed the most when they announced who the characters were is the argument that ended up winning.

1:24:37 And it was because it was Mary Winchester, because she. Was she was. She's really good at that. Beth is really good. Beth is incredibly good at that. Like, but she, I mean, she had a point. She was like, if it wasn't Mary Winchester, the boys wouldn't exist. I was like God damn it. Yeah, I mean, and, and she made some good points. And this was something I was having a conversation with my daughter about the other day, about how Mary Winchester is one of those divisive characters because you have a lot of people who don't like her from when she came back because she was so different from the image of Mary that Dean and Sam had basically had of her for all those years that she was gone.

1:25:20 But then when you think about the stuff that she's had to go through and come back 33 years after her death and she's having to adjust to being a mom to grown men, and she's going back into hunting and she finds out her sons are hunters when she didn't want that lifestyle for them. And you know, her husband is dead. And it's just a whole lot of stuff. And I was liking she's not that bad. It's just a matter of that we have to take her down from the pedestal that Dean had placed her on for all those years that we watched the show and look at her as a real person with real issues and real trauma. And again, you know, we talk about this all the time on the show.

1:26:05 All of these people have no access to therapy. And sometimes they have to create their own therapy and they have to do their own things that help them get through whatever it is they have to go through. So Beth did a really good job and she got like, I think she got like 29 votes out of the whole. And she got like 30 You, you had like 20 and she had like 30. I had 20 for Crowley, Yeah. So hopefully they would do that panel again next year and we'll have a whole new cast of characters to talk about. But that's like always a fun start to con for for us because it's literally one of the first panels of the day or of the whole weekend.

1:26:47 But yeah, I. I really liked your your Starlight panels, that one got a little spicy. Oh yeah, we'll talk about that a little bit more when we can finish covering the boys because I had. There's a lot going on with that character this season. And. I, I think it's interesting, one of the things that we have been talking about a lot in our suit, you know, the coverage that we do for our superhero characters or superhero shows or movies. And I think Michelle and I were talking about it earlier today too, is, you know, for us Gen. X, when we were growing up, comic book characters were good or bad. There wasn't really that in between. You know, we had the characters that were there. But for the most part, you had to focus on the good character. You focus on the bad characters.

1:27:42 There were there were clear cut heroes and villains. And as we get older and we're looking at things from a different lens, we're looking at things from an adult lens, we're looking at things from a maturity lens, from a moral lens, from an ethical lens, it's very clear that none of these people, even the people that we call heroes, are really good. And a lot of the people that we call villains are not all bad. It's like everybody is kind of in that Gray. And Starlight is one of those characters who very much exemplifies that because we're introduced to her character and she's like this really sweet, you know, small town hero.

1:28:25 She just wants to do good. And then she's put through these paces from these members of the Seven till we get to where we are in in Season 4 with her and we find out more things about her past and how she really was not a nice person. And all of this is starting to blow up in her face. And I was just like, Oh, this is a great way to examine how we look at quote UN quote, heroes and villains. And so that really was a very interesting panel because you had a lot of people who were on one extreme and a lot of people who are on another extreme. And then he had like a small group that was kind of sort of in the middle.

1:29:12 But yeah, we we can talk about that more when we cover the rest of the season 4 episodes of The Boys cuz Starlight going through some shit in the season. Like, yeah, that was fun though. But let's see, I got to talk about Outlander, which is always fun, especially since I am now caught up on the books. I read 3 almost thousand page books in the course of a week and 1/2 and yeah that. Was every time Michelle see every time Michelle saw you posting something, she blinds.

1:29:57 You know you need she need to be reading that book. I think we were talking about House of the Dragon one night. We were getting ready to and she was looking at me like, where are you? And I was like, I'm still on such a book and she just looked at you. I said she was. I said she she didn't even she's not even hiding it. She was looking at Anthony like if this bitch don't keep to start reading. But I got it done. I got it done. And now I'm really going through Outlander book withdrawal because she might be 3 or 4 years away from publishing the final book. And I'm sitting here like, I need to know what's going on. I need to know what's going on.

1:30:37 So now I'm going through Droughtlander for the show and for the book, thankfully. Droughtlander. Yes, that's what it is called. Thankfully, the show is coming back November 22nd, but I need her to write some more daily lines for Book 10 because I need to see what's going on so I can kind of formulate in my head what I think is going to happen. But I'm trying to think, what else did we talk about this year? I think I covered pretty pretty much what was on my plate. Anthony, you did a lot of Star Wars this year, didn't you? Yeah, we did.

1:31:22 I did the witchcraft and the Force and magic in Star Wars, which was another interesting panel because they got a little bit of push back because people don't understand that the Force is the Force and that magic is just what they call force when it's being used by people who aren't the Sith of a Jedi. It's still the Force, it's just called a different name. Still don't get that. And you know the only one thing that happened on that panel and one day I'll have Nick come on and explain it to you. But there was a guy who, you know, I said something about Sith sorcery and Sith alchemy, which are forms of magic, but it's still the Force.

1:32:12 Anyway, he he came up and he said, yeah, you didn't have to say something about it not being a Canon because it most definitely Canon and you shouldn't shy away from it. And I'm thinking I didn't say anything about it being a Canon or not Canon. And afterwards Nick was like, yeah, I don't know where that came from because you didn't say anything about it being a Canon or not Canon. I say, yeah, he's like Anthony, you have to remember you're on that side of the table. You know you can't because you know I can. You guys know how I can get out there sometimes. And when you're up there on the panel, you can't really do that. You know, they can't really.

1:32:54 I think I've talked to you about this. Sometimes you can push back a little bit on the audience, but you can't go. You can't go too far. You don't want. It to because. Like an argument like you can. Yeah, you don't want to turn into an argument, you know. Yeah, you can kind of sort of debate and kind of make your points clear. But yeah, I mean, there are some people that are going to like push you and push you and honestly on a hour long panel, we don't have time for that like. We don't have time for that. Yeah. Oh, because the guy got up and he said that. He said the Jedi, the Jedi don't allow people to use the Force. Like they don't let other people use the Force.

1:33:36 And I was like, you know, I've read, I, I said this. I was like, that's interesting because I've read a lot of Star Wars, you know, the EU, all I've real, I have never once seen anyone say that, that I don't allow other people use the force like that, that, that doesn't make any sense. And Nick was like, that's the first time he's ever seen me sort of get somewhat snarky with, with the audience. But I mean, it's, it was, it's one of those things, it was, it was a fun panel. I also did Quantum Leap panel, which was a lot of fun because, you know, there's a huge following because if you watch the original show, the original show is like one of the greatest TV shows of all time.

1:34:24 And you know, as much as I like the new Quantum Leap, it's not quite as good, but it's it's good in a different way because the original was really Sam and Al. It was really the two of them. The new show, I know, I don't think you guys have watched it. I haven't watched it yet. The new show is more of an ensemble. Oh, OK. It's it's more about all it's it's like 6-5 or six characters that we follow with the show. It's not about the leaper and the person helping him. It's really about it's really non solvable, which is I like the idea that they did it differently than the original.

1:35:08 So I really like that panel because they're a lot of fans of that show. And the only other panel though is Upload, which is a show that comes on Amazon Prime. It's a fun show, but it really has like a dark side. It's it's like if Black Mirror were a sitcom. Basically, yeah. Yeah, if you ever watch Black Mirror, it's like that, but. Or it's basically, it's basically like you can't take it with you, but if you if you die and you're broke, you're still broke. Yeah, but it it raises a lot of interesting issues.

1:35:49 We we would say it's subversive because they're talk. One of the main storylines on the show is gerrymandering where they're off. OK. The idea of upload is when you die or right before you die, you can upload your brain or your consciousness or who you are into a computer and we'll make an avatar. And you have all these choices of different heavens, I just call them heavens that you can go to and spend your life there forever. Depending on how much money you have like you have a lot of map like if. You if you're poor, yeah, if you're poor, right they.

1:36:30 Just throw your ass. You can go to. It's basically, it's basically like if you're, if you're rich, you have you. Can go but you only get. You only get like 2 gigabytes of data. Yeah, if you're, if you're rich, if you're yeah, if you're rich, you're on 5G and if you're poor, you're on 2G. OK. So you basically have. You no, you're on dial up. You're a little. You're a dial up, Yeah, you have nothing. You have dial up and you can. Literally have no colors. You can't move. Oh, it's it's it's. A fun show it it raises a lot of questions about do we have souls because a character dies, they get uploaded but they can be duplicated right? So one of the three rooms on.

1:37:16 Black. Echoes right, but you're duplicating. You're inside the, you're inside the computer, and you're virtual. But then the main character, his fiance, is still alive, but she still wants to have a relationship with him even though he's dead. And then and then there's like a food shortage and then there's a food shortage. So then we get into this one episode where there's like this huge, massive, like cloned cow and each of the teats is a different type of milk. And when you get to the end of it, it comes out as cottage cheese because the milk has travelled for so long down the cow that it comes out it's kind of sport. So it's kind of, yeah, it, it raises a lot of the interesting thing.

1:38:08 But the main thing is the gerrymandering is they had built these, these different places for free uploads and people can choose and make their own heaven or whatever. And they were doing for the poor people in the, in the what do we call the swing states? So if you get enough of the poor people to upload, they can't vote anymore because they're dead. So you can turn all the swing states red. That is one of the plot lines of the show. But but it raises all these things that are like common in our actual society, but they give it to you in a weird kind of way.

1:38:51 And if you really watch the show and kind of pay attention, it can be kind of depressing, but it was it was fun to have a lot of people come and talk about the show because it it does raise a lot of interesting things. But you know, and the IO panel was a lot of fun. Hanukkah recorded it and put it up on YouTube. You should watch it because I had there. There was some funny moments in that. Anthony was a. Regular comedian that day. Yeah, I don't know who that guy was. Well, you know, I love Will of Time. I love Robert Jordan. I love the ideal.

1:39:32 It was a fun panel to be on. Yeah. And the two Game of Thrones panel, I was on the night of Seven Kingdoms. We talked about the show that's coming up and maybe that was, oh, was that. I think it was the only, the only Game of Thrones panel I was on out of the Seven Kingdoms. Yeah, but I was only with Tara. And Tara's always fun to be on the panel with because she knows her stuff, Boy, she knows her stuff. She knows her game. She knows she knows her stuff. And I think she has a Game of Thrones convention that she's a director of up North somewhere. She used to have it.

1:40:16 It's on hiatus. She said it's hard running a an East Coast con from the West Coast, so she needed to take a break. She said that hopefully it will be back because I think you and I talked about possibly doing that convention. Talking about going. Yeah. And then that's when it went on hiatus, I think. Actually, I think we talked about it right before the pandemic happened and then of course, COVID. Happened. Yeah, we should be at. Everything up. So yeah. But yeah, you know, OK, so here's the other thing Anthony, you had fun talking about on the panels, but you said you don't think you're going to do panels next year. You know, best laid plans of mice and men. I think I said that last year and this year Michelle said you should try to get on high fantasy again because, you know, yeah.

1:41:16 So I reached out to high fantasy and I remembered, Oh yeah, I know the Star Wars track director, let me reach out to her. And Oh yeah, I know the American sci-fi track director let me reach out to her. Next thing you know, I'm on the 8 panels and I really wasn't planning on being on like two or three. Yeah. So, you know, again, I, I miss going to panels. That's what I've always liked about Dragon Khan, like going to panels, engaging the panelists, not being a panelist, being engaged with, it's not quite the same. It's not quite the same. And see that's I like being on the other side. Well, I like it because. I like being me.

1:41:57 An opportunity to talk like, especially of all the stuff, because like even before we started doing this recording, we were talking about, look, I'm just going to flash it up. We were talking about our list of shows that we want to cover just for the end of this year. And we have like 17 different topics. And I'm like, there's no way we're going to be able to do that. But Dragon Con for me is one of the ways that I get to talk about a lot of the things that I want, you know, because you know, we started this podcast in 2020. Matter of fact, the end of this month will be our 4th birthday.

1:42:39 And it's so weird that we've been going for four years, but like when we first started, the pandemic was still going strong. We were still like a lot of us were still working remotely. There was no social life whatsoever. So we literally, you know, we're recording and putting out, I think at the beginning we were putting out like 3 episodes a week because there was so much time. We weren't doing anything. And it's like now we've gone back to regular life. You know, Anthony and Michelle, they have a child that's, you know, almost done with high school. And you know, Mike is married, Lori has been, you know, dealing with family stuff.

1:43:21 And so it's just it's harder for us to get together to like really talk about stuff. And so Dragon Con is like, conventions are that outlet for me. Like if we're only talking about two shows a month, oh, and Dragon Con, I get to go talk about 10 different things and I can get it out of my system. So I like that part about it because I'm like, I get to talk. And then also hearing other people's opinions about things, you know, not just the panelists, but a lot of people in the audience, because some people in the audience, they may not feel comfortable being on a stage to talk about it, but they don't mind engaging.

1:44:04 And a lot of times people will say stuff and they're the things that they're saying is something that never crossed my mind. So I literally sit there like, and it gives me something to think about. And that's one of the things I love about doing it. And then of course, people coming up afterwards and continuing the conversation or, you know, for me, you know, one of the things I've talked about in the past is the whole imposter syndrome thing. Because you, you know, you think about these people who are making a living doing this kind of thing. And then you have us who just do it because we just want to do it. It's fun.

1:44:45 And sometimes you can sit here and think like, we're on panels with authors. I think Anthony was on a panel with somebody who actually works on the Wheel of Time show, you know, working with people who work with these things. And you can start feeling like, OK, I'm just a little podcaster who cares about my opinion and that sort of thing. And you start feeling like, OK, I don't know if I need to be here. And then people will come up and say, hey, I like your opinion on this because it's not an opinion I've heard before. Or also us being people of color, a lot of times our voices aren't heard in geek spaces. That's changed a lot in the last few years before a long time.

1:45:26 Like I remember when I was going, when I started going to Dragon Con 2007, there was not a lot of black people there. There were some, but not like, like we got a whole Black Geeks of Dragon Con group now and they're they're having the photos. And definitely not and definitely not on panels. Definitely not on panels like I spent the 1st 10 to 15 years going to Dragon Con. Every panel I went to, the feedback was y'all don't have no black people on the panel, you know, and, and that was across all the tracks. The only you could go to urban fantasy and that would be like the only place you find like black authors or black people on the panel.

1:46:10 Everyone else was like, no. So that that's one of the things that that has changed. I would say it changed significantly over the years is the diversity and representation of the panelists has has really changed for the better. This is I think it's really good. Yeah. Which is why when all people ask me to be on the panel loud, I don't say no you. Know, yeah. And also she got to talk, to talk, you know, to walk the walk and. This is this is one of the first years that I actually had like someone walk up to me that not in the room after the panel, but like outside of the room, like walk up to me and say, Hey, I really love, really love your panel.

1:46:56 The other day it's like I had like three people say that this this year and I was like, wow, thanks. Like this is not like immediately after, but it's like just walking around like. Hey, I saw your panel. You're really good. I was like, you know, that saves me from my my impo, my imposter syndrome, but you know, I have imposter syndrome. Just being on here with you guys every every time we we podcast. Whatever, dude. Or. Whatever, dude, whatever, whatever. But. Yeah, my favorite part. Of you all deserve to be in this space so. Yeah, my my favorite part of Dragon. Con ourselves. Yeah, that's true. We we belong here. My favorite part of Dragon Con is just being around people who geek out about something the same level that I do.

1:47:43 It's not more. And and that, that is what has always appealed to me. That's why I like being in the audience because you know, to be around people who who geek out about Star Wars or you know, about the series. They have a whole room full of people just to talk about the Force and witchcraft and magic it that that is, you know, I spent all this time researching hard magic, soft magic, irrational magic, just to go in there to talk about it. And we don't talk about it, but it's fine because or really in the people who know more than you do about something.

1:48:24 And you know that that is always amazing to me. That's I think that is the appeal and to get up and I don't, you know, I don't mind talking about how I feel about something. You know, there were many times when I used to go up people like why aren't you on any panels? But because I don't know anybody, you know, you apply, you know, you feel out, you're like, hey, how can I be on the panel? Like, oh, you got to volunteer. I don't got time for that. I need to go to the panels. I don't have time to volunteer on the track just to get on the panel. Yeah. Yeah, it's like I hear, I hear a lot of people. They're like when I tell them on a panel at Dragon Con, they're like, really? I'm like, yeah, like, how'd you do that? I'm like, is you gotta play.

1:49:07 It's all who you know. I mean, it's like you have to actually know people and like talk to people and like, you know, relate to people and be like, look, wow, that was a whole lot of fun. I wouldn't mind trying that because shout to Kellen. Kellen on American sci-fi because. We love killing I. Love her because it's like we always, we always say like we want to be on somebody because all their panels are cool. I'm like, OK, I want to be on every last one of those panels. She's like, no, you only get 5 damn panels because I want to hear different. I want to hear different people talking about it. I'm like OK, fine, but that's the but shout out to her. Shout out to her for for from subjugating the rules and allowing me to be on Deadpool Wolverine as the 6th panel this year.

1:49:48 I really appreciate. That I fought for you to get on that panel. I appreciate you because I was supposed to do that panel, but I had an out. I think it Oh, no, not Outlander Interview with the Vampire, which was kind of, it was one of those panels where the horror track shout out to Derek wasn't supposed to do it. And then he reached out to me. He was like, hey, so I didn't think I was going to do an Interview with the Vampire season 2 panel this year, but I think I'm going to do it. Do you want to be on it? And this is only the second year I've done anything on the horror track and also Apocalypse Rising. But it's kind of like you said, M1 is, you know, people. And then two is also like word of mouth because of people here. Oh yeah, I've had her on my track or I've had him on my track, and they were good.

1:50:39 And that'll give them some idea, like, OK, so they can hold somebody's interest, they can, they can talk and you know, that sort of thing. I did the Interview with the Vampire panel last year and we had so much fun. And this year, when I say that room was bonkers, we had so much fun. And I'm so pissed off because my camera died 17 minutes into the panel. I'm so mad because that was like one of the best panels. That group of panelists was amazing. It was just. But yeah, going back to what Mike was saying, it is like, that's how I got into paneling because I knew somebody from the local Atlanta Harry Potter group who was on the YA lit track and she was like, hey, you do a lot of Harry Potter stuff. Because that man, in 2009, 2010, it was like, not only was I very active in the local Harry Potter community, I was also a Harry Potter Blogger for hollywoodnews.com. And I was like, I was just all over the place with Harry Potter stuff.

1:51:47 They brought me in for a Harry Potter panel and then the next year they had me do a few more panels. And then I think the next year was when American sci-fi Fantasy, when I actually saw them put the call for panelists out and it just kind of went from there. So, yeah, it always is a good feeling when people hear of your, you know, when you have a reputation where people like, hey, I want to get this person on my panels. Or when people, like you said, might come up to you just in the middle of the car, like, Oh my God, I saw your panel, it was great, blah, blah, blah. And then, you know, we also got new listeners and new subscribers because of some of our Dragon Con panels that I've already posted.

1:52:33 So hey, new people welcome. So yeah, it's I, I love it. You know, I mean, y'all, y'all can tell from listening to this podcast. I like to talk about giggy things. So anytime that I get a chance to to talk, you know, I am one of those kids who used to have that on the report card. She's very smart, gives good grades, talks too much. Talks a lot. One more shout out to killing the directive of the American sci-fi track because she will have these shows like Beacon 23 upload shows that that don't get a lot of attention and give people the ability to see and talk to other people about those same shows. Silo I wouldn't say 3 body Problem, but there's a lot of people in that room.

1:53:34 But you know, there was having shows like that. We had two shows that didn't make it this year, Constellation, which I actually kind of liked. And the other show was the big Door prize, which we had a lot of people that had last year, but we couldn't get any panelists this year. Oh, really? OK. Yeah, she said she couldn't get no panelists for it. OK. Yeah, yeah. And and and then all these shows we do, they get cancelled. You know, it's very difficult. But it's it's. Fun to have to be able to talk talk to other people about those shows because otherwise it isn't really a community for yeah. So shout out to her for for keeping that up and hope she keeps doing it and doesn't get discouraged by, you know, audience numbers.

1:54:24 Yeah. So I think we can close this one out. I do want to, I do want to call out the specific tracks. So shout out to the American sci-fi fantasy media track, urban fantasy. Let's see young adult literature, horror, apocalypse rising, American sci-fi, classics, Star Wars track, alternate history. Let's see X track, which is where I was on while I was on the Warehouse 13 panel. That was extract. They were so nice. I'm like, they must not have a lot of people.

1:55:05 Yeah, extract. Yeah, I did several pounds a couple of years ago and they extract they're they're I love extract. They're. They're like, hey, how you doing? You want a snack? You want want a soda? I'm like. Yeah, extract they. They are really, but they're really cool people. But see the the reason that no, the reason they're nice because they're in, because they're in the damn Cortland and everybody hates the Cortland. Oh wait, honey, what? What track was that where you had the snacks on the table? Those are premium snacks. That was. Alternate history alternate. Yeah, shut. Out, shut out. I. Was like whoa, wait a second, they had tweaks and sneaker bars and pretzels and I was like what is what is going on here?

1:55:53 And. Then he refilled it while I was standing there. One particular track can I get on? This track they they also gave thank you cards to all of their panelists. So when they set up our our little name tags, they handed me an envelope and it was a thank you, Carson. Thank you for participating on our track. And I mean, urban fantasy Carol does that as well. She has like little bite sized candies on the tables, you know, when you go in. And so all of the tracks, they, you know, they do sweet little things like that for all of their palace. And it's cool because it's like, yeah, you. Feel like offer me water and power aid. That's nice.

1:56:39 Well, we see great. Look, they. Got the good stuff they got. The good stuff, so thank. You to all shout out to high fantasy. Yeah, high fantasy. We're having Phantom Hybrid back again. Yeah, Jennifer. Thank you, high Fantasy. So thank you for all of those tracks, for having us on your panels. We thoroughly enjoy it every single year and we are looking forward to whatever is coming in 2025. But for now, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media on all the social media at Phantom hybrid. You can chat with us on our discord channel. You can watch us on our YouTube channel and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. And also before we sign off, this is just a reminder you send it on our social media pages.

1:57:34 But Michelle, Casey and I are nominated for the Women in Podcasting award and the entertainment category. We will put the link in the show notes for this show, but if you would please go and vote for us. Voting is open until October 1st. And with that, thanks for listening. We hope you join the conversation next time.