Agatha All Along, Part 1 (Episodes 1-5) - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #312

0:25 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid Podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Anthony, Mike and Michelle and we are discussing the 1st 5 episodes of the Disney Plus series. Agatha All along. And it's been wild since we've been together on a podcast, I think since before Dragon Con. How are you? Guys doing. How's everybody doing? Well, Michelle isn't under the weather, that's why her camera is not on. But she wanted to be on this episode to talk about Agatha. So how you guys doing? I'm OK stressed out but I'm just waiting for the next time kind of fall so I can relieve some stress that's. Kind of a few.

1:12 Weeks conjuration so. Yeah. Agatha all along. Let's talk about it, because. No, no, no. No, you know what? OK. Do you want to go positive or negative? Yes, we're, I'm going to start with Mike because Mike has been, I think out of the group, he has been the most enthusiastic about this show. So we're going to start with him and let everything jump off with a positive spin because I kind of got a feeling how Anthony's gonna feel about this. And I'm gonna be honest, I'm kind of on the fence as well. So yeah, we're gonna start with the positive. So Mike, shoot, what you thinking about Agatha so far? So for those who don't know me, my name is Michael Collins and I am a Marvel apologist.

2:09 So OK, I'm not, I'm not a total Marvel apologist because Secret Invasion suck now and there's no saving that. But this show I absolutely love. I'm I'm I was a fan of Katherine Han's portrayal of Agatha from one division and she brought the same thing. I understand why people were kind of put off by the first episode because it's kind of, if you don't know the show Mayor of East Town or you don't, you not into procedural cop dramas, you're probably like, what the fuck is this shit? And then they switch it in the middle. But I thought that was genius. It's exactly the same thing that they were doing in one division where they were going through different time periods and different sitcoms and stuff like that.

2:53 So they kind of started the same way. So I understood that and I thought it was great, but I love her portrayal. I love teen slash. We're not gonna, we're not gonna get to that yet. Just teen. Let's, let's, let's start there. OK, so we're talking about 5 episodes, so we gotta say something. It's in the 5th. It's in the 5th episode, but OK teen. I love teen. I love his portrayal from when we were introduced to him. The second episode was his. I loved how he helped to recruit the coming. I thought that was great. I love the coven Patti freaking Lupone. I mean, how can you not love Patti Lupone getting her sign? I can appreciate that. I, I love the whole coven. I think that the way they're doing it is basically a witch's escape room, and I'm here for it is, I mean, that's basically what it is.

3:45 It's just, it's a, it's a really big escape room for witches. That's what the richest Rd. is essentially. And the way they're going about it, the way they've staged it, I've been really appreciative of it. I love Aubrey Plaza. I think, I think she's fucking hilarious, even though she's supposed to be menacing at times. I just think she's hilarious. I, I love her portrayal and for everything I, I mean, I really like this. And I'm not even really a musical like a musicals fan as much as much as a lot of people are like musical musical theater. People love this show, will probably love this show because of all the musical tones and the people that are in it and the way that they do it. I really, really like this show.

4:32 That's I mean, it's just, I, I mean, I, I don't know how else to really explain it. It's just I, I was, I was in from the first episode, OK. Anthony, we're going to go with you. Next Michelle Michelle's next. We're going to we're going to balance it because I think Michelle is a little bit more on Mike's end of the spectrum than she is on yours. So we're going to balance it. So we got Mike. So let's start with you. How how are you feeling about Agatha all? Along look it's it it honestly, it's not really negative. I mean, the show is just meh, like there's it's not moving me.

5:14 Like I, I watched mayor of East Town and mayor of East Town was really, really good. So I, I, I got it. But I mean, I like most of the actors. Aubrey Plaza is amazing. The her, her, she's, she's great. Joe Locke is team, he's great. Not a big fan of Agatha at all. The actress that didn't really care for her in one division don't really care for her here either. I think you just have, you're just having backlashes of. You didn't let.

6:01 Let him finish, Let him finish. So the The thing is, she's she definitely can't carry the show by herself. She can't. So she's going to need a really good solid supporting cast, like top notch. This has to be an ensemble show. And I just don't think it works for me them as as an ensemble cast because it focuses too much on her. Like they try to give you a little bit of all the other members of the ensemble, but it's not enough. It just isn't it's, it's too much her, not enough everybody else.

6:52 Right. And then I know the title of the show is Agatha all along, but I don't know if maybe it should have been called for witches Rogue. It is some something else because I, I don't know, Katherine Hahn, she's OK actress to me. Like I said, I didn't really care for what she did. In one division. She was OK as a villain in one division. She's sort of OK as an antihero. So the whole show is this sort of like this OK so far, OK. First five episodes, I'm just sitting there like, OK, yeah, that's cool. That's nice.

7:37 You know, I've done a lot of research on magic and witches, warlocks, sorcerer's and all of the above, and I just, I usually like shows like this, you know? Charmed, right? You know, Discovery Witches, this. Yeah, it was me. It was like, yeah, it was like. And hey, I don't consider myself a music theatre kid, but as a person who enjoys musicals but despise. You gotta listen to his words. He enjoys musicals. He does not like musical episodes.

8:18 There's. A difference Musical television episodes. We've had this. Discussion before. OK. All right. OK. But I like musicals now. I don't classify this shows for as a musical. These episodes aren't really musical to me but I I understand what Mike is saying. The music is good and I enjoy the rendition of which is Rd. It was amazing. Which one? Right, both. Of them, actually, both of them. Are you kidding me? Yeah. So, you know, those are my highlights.

9:01 OK, Michelle. Replies in which is Rd. which? You got OK, so I'm on my side with this and oh, I'm going to get some people when I say these things, I have so much to say. OK, One, I am very grateful for this show because it's given us back to when we had Wanda Vision, when we had Falcon in The Winter Soldier, when we had Moon Night Loki. Let's ignore Secret Invasion. Let's ignore Echo. Let's ignore all those other ones. This is on the same level as the other shows. I'm sorry. This is quality, friends.

9:43 Quality. OK, I am so sorry you don't like Agatha, but she is a perfect Agatha. I love Catherine. We love that this Agatha is not. She's not sorry for what she has done. Hopefully she will start caring about the people that surround her. Hopefully maybe. But you know what if she doesn't F them, you know what they should have not thrown their magic together. She's great. Of course I love Aubrey and anything that she does. Shout out to the parks and Recs and especially the teen. The teen is really playing it off, but this show has you questioning things.

10:23 It also has a musical aspect. I love that each episode we kind of get into the history of one of her covenants. So yeah, it's great even from the beginning because you know she's under that spell. And we had all those other different types of shows with Wanda. We got the line order type show here and it's absolutely perfect. So I'm sorry, Hocus what that you didn't enjoy this and it's lackluster even though those other shows were lackluster. I've. Seen that? Really. So much better That's. My word. Lackluster. I'm sorry, I am talking. I'm just saying it is not lackluster.

11:04 It's very rich, it's very colorful and it's quality. It's it doesn't seem thrown together as the other shows that we have to watch in the past couple of years. That's all I'm saying. It's in the same category of Secret Invasion. No, it is not. I know it's not no. Absolutely. No, it's not. No, no, no, we're not going there. It's not. And you know. It's not right. This is literally a house divided. It it really is, because my opinion is Anthony almost took everything I had to say word for word, even down to like, I literally said this to somebody else and I didn't put it in the group chat because I knew what kind of response it was going to get. I said I was going to wait till we were on the show. But yeah, it's, it's kind of there was Secret Invasion for me, at least up until the last.

11:56 Minute. Of episode 5, Like, you know what, you know what, I'm going to be honest going into the show. Well, let's let's let's go all the way back to one division coming out of one division kept with it. I was like, oh, she's going to get her old show. This is going to be cool. Then the years of waiting and the multiple, the multiple title changes when you start going through those type of things. And we know this from what's going on with Blade. You know, you, you have a writer, you lose a writer, you have a director, you lose a director, you get another writer, you lose him, you get another director, you lose him. When you start having those types of things happen, there's obviously a problem with the production.

12:42 The show is not as strong or the film is not as strong as it could be. So I started getting these vibes about Agatha way before it aired. So like all of the news that came out this summer during Comic Con with the promotion, I was just kind of like, like, I wasn't excited. I I wasn't doing what I usually do, which is like rushing to YouTube to watch the trailer and analyze the trailer. I didn't do any of that. I was just like, OK, I'm just gonna wait till it comes out and, and, and see how I feel about it. And I will say I think the best part of the first few episodes for me was when Agatha was coming out of her spell and she started going through the different iterations of herself from Wanda Vision. That was perfect.

13:33 Everything else felt so I don't know, I guess I'm kind of like I kind of agree with Anthony as far as Katherine Hahn, like I like what she did with the character in one division, but as far as this show being about her character mainly, I'm just not feeling it. I don't I I'm really not that invested in Agatha as a character. And I also feel like I feel like she's over she's over playing it a little bit. It's just for me, it just, it's really, I don't want to say uncomfortable to watch, but it's not like my excitement comes from when other people are on the screen. And even then it's it's not all of them. Teen is my absolute favorite character in the show. And that was even for some reason, even before the show aired, like something about Joe Locke and the way he looked even in the promos, I was like, OK, I'm going to like this character and just what we've seen from him in the 1st 5 episodes and love this character.

14:47 Aubrey Plaza. I like her as an actress. I really don't see, I really don't see what they're trying to do with her character here as far as her and Agatha, because they start off the show making it seem like they have some sexual tension between them. Like there was a there's a pass between them. OK, I get what it's supposed to read, but I don't I don't feel the chemistry. I don't understand what her character is supposed to supposed to be doing there aside from creating chaos now that's all she's there for. I'm here for it because she's very funny as a chaotic character. But this interspersing of this supposed relationship with her and and Agatha, I'm not buying it.

15:35 I don't feel the chemistry and it's just like them going through the trials, finding out about the other characters, finding out about their, you know, their traumas and what's LED them to lose their magic. That's just been more interesting to me. And I don't know if it's just Agatha's portrayal. I don't know if it's the fact that when you think about her character, her character has been under Wanda spell in this show for three years. The fact that the neighbors who were so outraged that wanted to have them living under a spell, they just, they just sat by and let this woman, you know, live in the spell for three years.

16:17 And I don't know, it's just something about the show was not really clicking with me up until like the last 10 minutes of the 5th episode. You, I mean, what were they supposed to do though? Well, you said something, Hanukkah said something that I think is key. The the title changed four times in three years. Like they changed directors, writers. And when you watch these first five episodes, for me, what I see are several different ideas that weren't fully developed and they all kind of got put together in this show.

17:02 So like I, I really would have loved to have seen a show where this 500 year old witch loses all her power, realizes that she's been under a spell from this other witch for three years living in the fantasy, and now she has to to go on a journey to get her power back. But then you also got someone come in. Let's shoehorn in your Billy and this you know the. Well, it makes it interesting it. Was it was all just interesting? Yeah, you are. But you, yeah, you literally describing what you want is what you just got. No, no, no, no big. Deal.

17:43 There was some extra fireworks, too. He wasn't. He wasn't done with his thought. OK, I'm so sad. They didn't they? OK, well let me make it brief. I'll make it plain they didn't need all the additional, the additional Wanda stuff to make her character fully fleshed out. You know, Marvel had been on a roll with dealing with characters who have had trauma and dealing with that trauma and dealing with the ramifications of things that's happened to them. Here we have the characters in the 1st 5 episodes who hasn't really said anything, thought about it or done anything other than the first things I want to do. I can get my power back. Well, what about did you, did you not feel anything about what happened to you, what was done to you, you know, like that? That is what made, that's what made Falcon and Winter Soldier interesting.

18:38 The trauma that the two of them felt. That's what made one division interesting her, we realizing that she's trying to deal with this trauma that she had. And I know we're not done with the season yet. Maybe we're going to get it from addict at some point, but we haven't gotten it now, right? And maybe he. Won't same thing he's dealing with the trauma of having to watch his best friend die and then become a murderer and now having to live a regular life again and then dealing with the ramifications of the things that he did coming back on him and how it affects other people in his life. So we have all the oh guy Oh. OK, OK. Yeah, but Agatha does have some, but it's not dealing with Wanda.

19:21 That's not what her issues are. But. That's what I'm saying is. She may not have. She's been through, he's been. Through why not Michelle? They have. Finished that talk it it's there, but it's like all of it is kind of surface level. It's like mentioned, it's talked about but it's not really dealt with and it's not really a part in interwoven into the story. It's I feel like it's kind of like throwing teen into the mix and then them mentioning the circumstances about her son or just the fact that, oh, it's rumored that she she killed her son or she gave up her son and you see these little bits and glimpses of her trying to ignore.

20:08 Whatever it is that that happened with her son or you see her kind of acknowledging it a little bit, but I feel like what the show was trying to do, they were trying to make it seem like Teen might have been her son. And then we realized he's not her son. And then we get the reveal that he's Billy Maximoff towards the end of this 5th episode. And it's just kind of like, what were you guys really trying to do? Because the thing that was so weird about the 5th episode, when that reveal came through, everybody was so surprised. Everybody was shocked. Oh my God, the big reveal. And I was like, did we not already know that this was Billy? Because literally from when Joe Locke was cast and I saw him, he looked like he could have been the older version of the the actor who played younger Billy. So I always thought that that was a known thing. And so when the reveal came for me, it was very anti climactic because I was like, we didn't notice already, even though I know what the show was trying to do. But it just, it never felt like, oh, OK, we're going to misdirect people, make them think this is Agatha's son when it's really Wanda's son.

21:24 And it just, it fell flat with me. Let me hold on, let me see. Let me one more thing, one more thing, and then I'll back out and I'll step out. The two most interesting things about Agatha is that one, the reason why she is the way she is is because her mother tried to sacrifice her and that was when she discovered her powers, OK, and she murdered the entire coven. The second most interesting thing about her is that she sacrificed her son in exchange for the dark hole. Those are very 2 powerful motivators and drivers for a character that you could have explored to no end on the show about her. That's why I thought, well, well, I forgot what the first title was.

22:10 Like Agatha House of Darkness or the House of of Harkness. Yeah, of it. Of darkness. That's what the show could have been about. Like that's, you know, exploring more of that and the ramifications of those things. That's all I'm saying. Like I, I would have wanted more depth. And that's pretty colors and pretty costumes and pretty sets and nice music. Give me an actual story with some depth to it. OK, I'm going to equate this to my feelings about She Hope versus a lot of people's feelings about She Hope. A lot of people don't like She Hope because of the CGII completely basically ignored the CGI and watched it for the dialogue and everything else and I enjoyed it. I don't think that this show needs to be penalized for Disney and Marvel fumbling the name, fumbling everything that they fumble, not even having to do with this show, but having to do with everything else.

23:13 Before this show, while they're filming this show and after the show that happened where they've had to push stuff back, cancel stuff, do all this other shuffling, it just became a victim of that. I don't think this show needs to be a victim of everything that is surfacely happening to it. And I think as opposed to the thing that it's underneath that is going on underneath, underneath it in the show, because I like the show in the show. I've been looking forward just like you. I've been looking forward to this show ever since they announced that they were doing it. I don't give a fuck what the title is. They could have been like, you could, they could have just said, here's Agatha. And I've been like, OK, cool, run it. But it's like, I understand what you're saying. Like like if you keep putting stuff off and changing it, putting stuff off and changing.

23:58 It's just like that boys episode where they they were talking about the show that had like 7 reshoots and it's like a multibillion dollar, billion dollar budget. Like it blew up and stuff. It's just like, you know, it just keeps going and going. I get that, but I like the show for what it is. It's just like I like, she hopes what it is. I like Miss Marvel for what it is. It's like I like all these shows for what they are, except for Secret Invasion. But I'm stop shitting on it. This I I can appreciate. I can appreciate the things in the show that I really like. I I mean, they've touched on the what she did with her son, exchanging him for the dark hold.

24:39 They've touched on all the stuff that she's done. And again, there are three more episodes to go. There's a whole double episode right for Halloween that we're gonna there are two episodes that gonna be on Halloween. There's a whole lot of stuff and four more episodes. So there's and there's two episodes are one in one day right before Halloween or on Halloween. We're going to get risked. We still have a lot of lot of show to go through before we say that they haven't really fleshed out the character. I agree that a lot of shows need to flesh out the characters early on, like second, third episode. They need to flesh out things so that people know what they're getting into. But that's not how the show goes. And I appreciate the way that they've they've actually done it. And I know it's not for everybody. And I, and I can appreciate that because I mean, a lot of people yourselves included, a lot of other people whose opinion I value have told me similar things. And I can appreciate that.

25:38 And I understand why you won't like why people wouldn't like the show because of certain things that have. Fallen on. Like, hold on, hold on. I think you understand what Hanukkah and I are saying. The things that happened with the the name changing and the writers changing, those are, those are what we have. What we watch is a direct result of all the things that are happening beforehand. I'm not penalizing the show because the show changed the name. I'm saying that that is evidence that the reason why I the show is the way it is, the reason why the writing is so lackluster, the reason why they have all these good ideas that aren't fully fleshed out is because they kept changing writers.

26:21 And anyone who knows anything about a show changing writers, as much TV as we watched, you know that when a new writer comes on, things change, characters die, ideas change, things get abandoned. So hey, this is a cool idea where this could be her son that she exchanged for the dark hole and maybe he's this is a revenge thing for him. If they're like, no, we don't like that new writer comes on, Oh well, well, we've already got all this done. Let's just make him want the Maximoff son instead of her son. So on the show, you're watching it and a lot of it's like, oh, OK, that might be her son. And then they're like, and then they change. It's not her son.

27:04 OK, well, was that like a false flag or something? So these are things that we feel watching the show based on the writing and the writing is the way it is because the writers kept changing, ideas kept changing. So these are not, we're not penalizing it because the writers changed. We're penalizing it because they did a crappy job of writing the shit that they put on the screen. And I'm not going to see here and be like, oh. Yeah, it's kind. Of harsh. It is harsh. But you know what? Mike has pushed me. He pushed. Me, I know, but I feel like it's hard. But some of the things. In the show because they changed title and writers. No, the show is oh God, I it is. Not it is not I mean, I'm so sorry for all the stuff that we have watched.

27:49 It is not crappy I. Said it is OK, it's better than Secret Invasion, It is OK, but I'm just saying. But not much, Not at. Least for me, No. No. But no you. Got I'm saying and a good soundtrack and you got piss poor writing. You know, you you got really bad writing and there's an actor on there who really they probably should. I don't know why they cast actor. They didn't need Comic Relief. Move on. Like what? Are you talking about this year? I'm not, I'm not saying anything about anyone because I'm not going to point out a particular actor for being bad, but we had a lot of high hopes and expectations for this show. And also, I'm going to get on you. People didn't like she Hope because the CGI was bad. People didn't like she hope because it was that was trashed. The writing on that show was terrible. Everything about this bad, you know, and it has nothing to do with bad CGI.

28:51 The bad we can. Discuss that, we can discuss that on a separate show and I'll be I'll be more than happy to argue with. You so we're not going to. So what we're not going to do is we're not going to have people did not have their opinions because if I say, well, I like the show. I'm not I'm not saying you're. Nothing. No, you, you literally said that we are talking about we are penalizing the show because of things that happened behind the scenes. I can tell you if I had not known about anything that happened behind the scenes, I didn't really think about the title change until tonight. But you know what? The writing is bad. I could write. I'm sorry. I do agree that I'm sorry. I think it did influence you to be. It didn't influence me. I didn't even know that.

29:33 I mean unconsciously, unconsciously it actually does. That is for any show that we ever watch, unconsciously we will have a little bit of a bias going in because we know of all the issues and it's OK. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, I'm just saying it's OK going in without knowing. Read enough books you can tell change and get abandoned because they weren't working or. Because everybody else has been talking, Let me, let me, let me say what I'm feeling about this show. Because.

30:18 The problem? That I've been able to the problem that I have and I'm I'm going back to the fan because because of what Mike said, it has nothing to do with it. The title changes, the writing changes, whatever. I have a problem with it because the story is not cohesive. You have a story that's supposed to be about Agatha and and whatever her journey is to get down the rich's witch's road. OK, I get that. But the problem is you bring in these other witches and you only kind of sort of tell us what their trauma is before you kill the the the witches off. I think the one that we really got the the back story of was the witch whose mom sang the album.

31:05 You get a little bit more of her back story in these first five episodes, but the rest of them, you don't really get to know them and what their purpose is before they die. And you know, Imam Vilani, who plays, who plays Miss Marvel, she did an interview and she made this statement. And I think it's so very true. She says that the MCU needs to go back to focusing on getting us to care about the characters. And I really think that's one of the problems with this show. I really don't care about Agatha's character.

31:45 I don't care. Like you haven't given me enough in five episodes to make me really want to know what exactly happened, why her mom hate hated her so much. I mean, she asked her mom in in what the episode 4, episode 5, she asked her mom like why? Why she doesn't get an answer. We again, you give us these other witches, you give us a little bit of the back story when they're walking through the different trials and they see the different things that are affecting them, but we don't really know what those things mean. And it's like now they're dead. So do I even care? And I just feel like this show is doing so much to try to tie this show, this character back to one division and then probably tying it to whatever else is coming up. And I think with the Marvel films, the Marvel shows, one of the things that we were so excited about in the beginning is the fact that all of these shows have links to each other and they tell a bigger story.

32:56 The problem is they're now focused so much on making sure everything fits that it just kind of feels like they're just giving us stuff. We really didn't need Secret Invasion because, I mean, nobody really liked it. This show, like I said, for me, it's kind of down there with Secret Invasion. I feel no, I feel no connection to Agatha. I feel no connection to the other characters except maybe Teen. And that's only because I had my suspicions before who Teen was. So now I want the story of how he is, where he is now. That's the only thing I care about with this show, Harry point blank has nothing to do with them changing the title.

33:42 It like you said, my it could be here. Here's Agatha. You're not giving us here's Agatha, you're giving us Agatha and her walking around with this this, you know, fake gravitize that she's like this bad bitch witch and you know, oh, I did this and I killed this many witches and I'm the most powerful and blah, blah, blah. So and that's just kind of how I feel about it. Like I said up until the last 10 minutes of Episode 5, but that had to do more with figuring out who Billy is. It just. Is OK, first of all, I want to say that I did say I, I, I respect everybody.

34:25 I listed everybody's opinion and I respect it and I respect your opinion and I respect your opinion. So I don't want to make it seem like I'm dismissing anyone's opinion about this show or any other show. I'm just trying to, I'm trying to put forward my point of view. Her Agatha's mother did say in episode 4 when she possessed her that she she could, that her mother could tell that she was even when she came out of her and that she should have killed her then. So she so she's still kind of alluding. To it. How fucked up was that? Yeah, that was fucked up, but that mean that that's basically a reason like she sure her reason is that she that she felt like she was evil when she gave birth to her. So that's why she was trying to she probably has been neglecting her and trying to kill her most of her life. So my.

35:12 Question with that is, so whose fault is that? Is that Agatha's fault as a baby, or was that the mom's fault you? No but no but it's but it's no I agree but it's still but it still it still gives motivation for the mother as to why she's being why she's treating her like that. Also if most people didn't know that that teen was Billy by the end of episode after the after episode 4 when when Rio told her that it wasn't her son, there are only 2 two people that it could have been. This whole show everybody knew that teen was either one or two people who's either Nicholas Scratch or he was Billy Maxima. There's no in between. There's no one else that he could have been. So I suspect he was Billy from episode 2 when the sigil was on him.

35:53 That's why I thought I thought someone put a sigil on to protect him from Agatha finding out and doing something to him because of how she treated Agatha. So I pretty much assumed as he was Billy. Plus he looked like the Billy in the Young Avengers, the way he had his hair, the way his hair was and stuff like that. He kind of looked like him in the comic version of him. So I kind of figured I was kind of figuring he was really from when I was first introduced to him. But after, after Rio said that that's not your son, you were like, oh, well, I didn't necessarily think that she was doing that just to hurt her feelings. I think she was doing it to to be like, hey, calm your ass down. That's not who that is.

36:34 I think that at that point I was like, oh, well, that's Billy then. OK, cool, moving on. But then, I mean, I got a shout out. I got a shout out to writers for, well, whoever or the creators, the producers, whoever had the idea to put you should See me in a crown after they put the crown on Billy at the end of Episode 5. I was. That was amazing. That was that was a very well placed. The music 111 of the best beat drops I've ever heard I've ever seen in my life. Like I was like like this one of the best, one of the best things I was just, I was floored. I literally was watching it in my room. As soon as soon as that beat hit, I was like I yelled and I swear everybody fucking heard me. I I saw lights come on across the way because I was yelling so loud.

37:26 I was just like, but yeah, I just want, I won't give, I won't give them their props for that because that was well fucking done. And I think that for a lot of people, such as yourself, I think that's a good way to get people who are kind of falling off, falling off watching it. And kind of like, I don't know, but like the reveal, like, oh, I knew it, but then kind of pumping it up like that kind of gets people back into it. I. Mean, like I said, that was that was when I started getting excited. I was like, oh, oh, OK, this what we doing OK, because it wasn't just the reveal. It was like it was confirming again, confirming something that I already knew or I already felt.

38:08 But then when you put the music behind it, it just took it to a whole different level. And then not only that, Joe Lock, I'm I'm not familiar with anything he has done before this, if he has done anything before this. But when I say the whole demeanor change with him once you get that reveal, like all the way up through the end of that fifth episode until what's her name dies, Alice dies. He's like this bubbly, you know, kind of happy go lucky, charmful charm, you know, charmful teenage guy.

38:50 And it's like you really again. He did draw parallels to Billy Maximoff for me from what we saw in One Division. And then it's like after Alice dies and he starts going off on Agatha about who she is and what she's done. And then you see the change into who he has become Once she it's like almost like she once she says you are just like your mother. It's like that was the key that unlocked who he really was. And his whole face changed. The I mean, he doesn't even look the same. Like his features looked more mature. They got darker. And it was just like, oh, OK, so now we're about to get the real show.

39:31 That's how I felt watching. It and I feel again. Up through that, I was just kind of like. And I feel like that was there from the beginning because to be honest with you, let's honestly say, will we be interested if it really was Act of the Sun? I would be. I would be because I I want to know what I. Would actually still be interested, you know. Especially because which one's more interesting? The parallel with with her and the dark of the dark cold and then we see Wanda like it. It's an interesting comparison. If we believe what they're saying in the 1st 5 episodes about Agatha, Wagatha gave up her child or sacrifice her child in order to get the dark hold in his powers.

40:18 Wanda is using the dark hold in his powers to try to get back her children. So I think that I think that that in a sense is a very interesting. Contrast And so I want to know the story about Agatha and her son more than I want to know any of this other stuff that they've shown us in the 1st 5 episodes. And what makes it even deeper is the how it's related to her mother and what her mother did to her. And then you have what her mother was doing to her, and then when she turned around and did to her son, that to me is a. Right. And I don't, I don't that's what she did.

40:59 Is is very was a very compelling story. It is a compelling story, but it's even more compelling to have team there because then you grifle with what if I made different changes to still have my son here and all that Wanda did to get her son to be actualized. So you heard going back and forth. So it is actually a little bit more complex with having this boy here who is not your son and trying to come to the fact that, yeah, I'm 350 years old, what could I have done differently? And I'm still dealing with, I'm still dealing with mom trauma. So honestly being under Wanda spell and everything that happened with three years, that is a a a dime in a bucket compared to all the things that she has dealt with over the last 350 years. And I think if they focused on the story more for that, I would be more into it.

41:55 But I, I understand the need for her to have a coven. I understand that. But you're bringing in these other characters who we're only getting a part of the story as far as what they contribute and why they are there and then they're killed off. So it's kind of like you're OK. I'm a, I'm a compared like this Michelle to The Walking Dead. You give us these characters that are interesting and that could have more to contribute to the story, but before they even get like a foot good on the ground, you're yanking them away from us. And I feel like if that's what you're going to do, you could have done more with their story or you could give us more on the Agatha story.

42:42 Like I know they have Rio in there to kind of tie her past to her present. But again, I just kind of feel like it's just, I almost feel like they're just trying to check the, oh, let's have a get. Let's have a gay or lesbian character box because you're giving us the the implications that they were once a couple, but you never really see it go past a certain a certain point. And it's just like, does this have anything to do with the story? I don't have a problem with them having gay characters. We've said this a bunch of times, but make it feel natural. Don't make it feel forced. And for me, it kinds it.

43:24 It kind of feels forced. Like what is the whole purpose of that relationship and how does it relate to the story? Unless Rio had something to do with her son's whatever she did with her son, which she hinted at. I'm. Tired of the hints. Give me the story and I yes, I realized what Mike said. We do still have four more episodes. Maybe things will get better then. But one of the things we've always talked about, especially Anthony and I, when we were on Sci-fi Party Line and there were certain shows that we were like, we don't know if we want to watch this. You got to give the shows at least 4 episodes to kind of set the pace, set the characters, set the foundation of what we're going, you know, what of the journey that we're going to be on.

44:11 And then it usually starts getting better. The fact that it was almost the end of the fifth episode and I was just still like, do I even want to finish this season? That's disappointing for me as a Marvel fan, as an MCU fan, ask somebody who is one of the biggest proponents of oh, I like when these stories tie into each other. I like seeing how the story flows. I'm just not really getting that with this show, except for the parts when she has to deal with Teen. And I'm just to the point where I'm like, just make it a Agatha and Teen show and give us the story from there. I really don't need all the other stuff.

44:52 I understand the importance of The Witch's Road is going to give them what they want, but now Sharon is dead, Alice is dead, Jen is dead, and Patty. 'S Lila Lila. Yes, yeah. And and I and I agree. I agree with that part. I that that is the only problem I do have with it. I totally agree with that 'cause I, I, and that's what I'm thinking. So I totally agree with that, 'cause, you know, I hate that on The Walking Dead when they do that. So this is, this is the part that I do have a negative on. Because you did have us kind of invest in it and each episode was clearly about them and their past and rediscovering themselves for them to die the next episode.

45:41 I did. I'm just hopeful that maybe towards the end we get a you have to make a decision and they're in a holding place because this is just the richest road and this is just a let's see what you do type of thing. And they're they're not really they. It's another. Trial. Yeah, I'm hoping so. I'm, I'm just, I really hope if it is not and we had the, we're talking about this and the next time we talk about it and they clearly are very, very dead, then I will be on your side because I totally agree to that. So I want to, I want to go back to something Michelle said. Like I totally see what you mean by it being a compelling story if it is in fact if if he him being Wanda's son.

46:32 But for me to be really invested in the character of Agatha, Wanda is dead. Wanda's story, as far as we know, has. Ended. I hope not. So they they don't, they don't have. To, but I mean they don't know I. Mean well, she. Was in. Well, for for the purpose. She got a facelift, OK. And somebody else, for the purposes of the current story, Wanda is dead. Like they, they made a claim in in the first episode that that's one, Wanda's dead, right? She's gone. And something else, I think, I don't know if it was Hanukkah setting up things for the future.

47:18 We know they're going to do Young Avengers, and here's a way to introduce Wiccan so they can have him for Young Avengers, but they don't want to put the work in in building that character up in Young Avengers. So they're taking all these shortcuts and introducing all these characters and other shows, creating storylines for them for them to be in another property. So, you know, Hanukkah, I laughed when you talked about all these things being connected and we all got excited about this, all these shows, movies. I was, I don't think I was one excited for that because I'm a proponent that the TV shows, they were, they were going to try. And you know what?

48:03 They fucked up because they did exactly what everybody wanted them to do. The movies and TV shows are all intertwined and related. And now we got this big mess. You know, we got this big mess because they didn't keep the wall, they didn't keep the movies separate from the TV shows. They didn't do the TV shows like one shots like the comic books do before the movie comes out. They do a one shot issue or three series limited issue before the movie comes out. That's what the TV show should have been. But now they've interwoven it all and that was like 1 big mess and they got a lot of crap all over the place because the number of people involved is astronomical. Yeah.

48:47 That's the problem, and it's terrible and it's a problem because they got away from it. They got away from this idea that we're just going to fill in the gaps. You know, they went from filling in the gaps to actually creating structure and trying to connect everything and trying to. We got to spend so much time setting up things for the future and setting up things for the movies, setting up things for this and setting up things for other TV shows that you lose track of focusing on the show in front of you, focusing on the characters in front of you. So yes, I thought it would have been more compelling if her son came back, the son that she sacrificed to get the dark cold. Now that the dark cold is gone, anything related to dark cold, it's kind of been released and he's come back and he wants his revenge and she has to deal with that. Could be next season.

49:45 I thought that would have been that could be next season, but but what you that's not what you gave us is the introduction of a character that's going to be young Avengers that that's what you gave us. And, and and you sacrifice a lot of what you could have invested in the character of Agatha Harkness, which maybe a lot of us were excited about the show, about her. And we've got, you know, would have liked to have known more about her and maybe building a covenant again and trying to discover, figure out how to get her power. She's the only known witch that survived the witch's rogue. Let's let's explore that.

50:25 But. We are. We still have more episodes. It seemed like, it sounds like to me, it seemed like she must be lying because she seemed to not really know what the fuck is going on. So you know what I mean. Or, or she's literally setting all these witches up because she wanted to steal their powers. So is this a power play for her? There's so many things that they could have done just to focus on her, but they wanted to invest some time in this other character who could be her son, who might be Wanda's son. And everybody kind of knows it's Billy Maximoff that's weekend, because we all know he's going to be Young Avengers. We don't all know.

51:08 That that's not. Oh, come on. OK, Yeah. No, we don't all know that. If you listen to this show, you know you do. Now, but you wouldn't, I mean, to be completely honest, because you know, I don't. I focus on one thing at a time. So if I didn't, you just told me something that I didn't know. So not everyone knows that. Oh, come on, We talked about it because we talked about. Yeah, we talked about him, but I'm just saying like, yeah, but knowing now, I didn't know. I didn't know he was. So to me, I'm thinking that we're focusing on him. You're giving them credit that they're doing this set up Young Avengers, but I'm thinking their continuous story that we actually was interested in how we really felt horrible about Wanda after Doctor Strange and what happened to her. And like we always say, if you don't see a body, no one is completely dead.

52:08 I need to see a body before I say Wanda is dead. Yeah, and I, I agree because my, my thing is one thing that we've always learned about magic and witches and spells, usually the witch that cast the spell, if they die, the spell goes away. Agatha had to fight her way out of that spell, and she had help to do it. So that in and of itself does not, does not make me think that Wanda is dead. And I mean, I've even said that after Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness, you know, when we see the the, when we see The Cave and the the Cliff collapse, you see that red light in there?

52:54 I don't think she's dead, but. Of course, here's here's a deep pet. Chaos magic works a little different different than all the other types of magic. Chaos magic is a bit more persistent and a bit more powerful. Just I mean, I know they don't follow the comic books strictly, but Wanda, the type of magic Wanda does, alternative probabilities and stuff makes it really difficult for for you for because we haven't, I don't think we've had her die in the comic books, so we really wouldn't know. But the other people that have done chaos magic and their spells persist.

53:37 So yeah, the chaos magic is a little different. But you are right about most other forms of magic. When the witch dies or Castor dies, the spell goes away. Same thing with Doctor Strange, you know all the sorcerer screams the same thing. But chaos magic is a little weird and a little different. OK, OK, real quick. I don't, I don't know, Michelle, I don't know if you you, you were listening to us like way back in one division. But when Billy and when Billy and Tommy first appeared, I think we probably touched on they're probably going to try to make them Young Avengers in some way or shape or form. So I mean. Yeah, we talked about it quite a bit, especially because of of Lori's comic book background.

54:21 Like she she went into a deep dive for us about those characters. So yeah. Also AD nauseam, I bring this up every time we talk about it. You took me or start arguing about Marvel shows. I said it when they first started the multiverse saga. If they do this wrong, it's going to be chaos is I? I literally said I was like, you gotta do this right. They'll do this right. It's going to be fucked and there are certain parts of it that are fucked and I can't deny that. Even the the apologist that I am, I admit that there's some things that could have been way better than they were, and that's I mean it.

55:01 Also, it affects the way things are moving forward because you, you started setting up storylines and characters and story arcs to go into future projects. And then you cancel those future projects. And then now you've kind of got, you know, this stuff over here in limbo trying to figure out what you're going to do with it. Like, they had to revamp the whole Kang thing when Jonathan Majors got in trouble instead of waiting. You know, I think that's one of those things where because of the circumstances of what was going on with him, that was not like a clear cut of, oh, he did this, you absolutely need to get rid of him. There were other circumstances.

55:44 And at some point he was also the victim. I think that they really should have kind of waited to see what was going on before they made any other major moves. But because they didn't, now they've had to revamp and and do some other stuff. And now you got, you know, Robert Downey Junior coming back as Doctor Doom for fantastic. It's it's just. Yeah. There's. So much. Correcting that they have to go back and do now because they're not they're they're straying from the sacred timeline like, so to speak, you're, you're doing all of this other stuff. And now it's like, like Michelle said, chaos that I mean, and we have used that word before when talking about some of these pro projects. It's chaos.

56:31 It is chaos and as far as as far as like, I'm sorry. Go ahead. So as far as far as like which, which storyline would be more interesting between Nick and Billy, I think they both have their, in my opinion, out in my opinion, they both have their pluses, their big pluses. I think that if it would have been Nick, I and I, I was like I was I was always no, no more than 2530% sure thinking that it could have been. I mean, they could have went straight from Nick to Mephisto and confirm Mephisto. Well, I mean, they did mention him. Yeah, they, they are, they have mentioned him.

57:12 So he is, he is coming. I mean, we we've done, he's coming in Iron Heart for a while. But they could have taken this and introduced him in this show and this Sacha Baron Cohen come on and show and show what he's going to do with it. But I mean, and just like we've, we've already said ad nauseam about, you know, Wiccan being in Young Avengers. And I will I will literally be so psyched if at the end of it and if we can still doing something walking down the road and miss Marvel pulls up next to him in the in that in that Porsche and says, get in loser. We're going to be Avengers. And it's like, I'm I'm sorry, I'm a nerd. I want, I want to see that.

57:54 I have a question regarding the the characters because OK, since we did get the reveal at the end of episode 5 that this is Billy Maximoff. OK, so now the question is going to come in how what happened and where's his brother? So my question that's. Going to be interesting. My question is, is Tommy a part of the Young Avengers as well or do we even see Tommy from this point on in the comics? Yeah, they both are. OK, so there is a possibility we may see Tommy? Yeah, Tommy's a speech, Sir. So he says he's like the flash of the young Young Avengers. So yes, he will. You will see him eventually.

58:36 I just wondered because I was like they with with the reveal that this is Billy. It's just strange because they're twins, one and then two. The last time we see both of them is when Wanda is getting rid of the hex and she knows that she's got to let her children go. But it's so interesting because, and again, this is the part of the story that would make sense to me and that would get me a little bit more interested. So if this is Billy Maximoff, right? And this is three years since Westview. So he's been out there for three years. So this goes back to Wanda ain't fully crazy. Wanda knows.

59:20 She has been saying her children are out there. We have the proof right here now that Billy is. So that means Tommy's out there somewhere. So what are the bigger implications for that? And it's like. I don't think, I don't think they thought it through. I don't think they fit that much. I don't think they were talking. I don't think either group was talking to each other about what the other was going to do. Because you raised, you raised an interesting point. Because we have bad Wanda looking for their children and apparently they were actually around in some form. Yeah, you know, but you know, dark hole corruption, etcetera, etcetera, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But you know, they whatever is it it it, it goes back to this idea that it's all over the place. Like they're all over the place.

1:00:21 It's just. Pure chaos. And yeah, they are trying to do Young Avengers. We have seven members, you know, of Young Avengers already introduced, you know, and. And they're and they're talking about doing a show about white vision. So you know that's going to tie into. Yeah, Vision Quest, they're already doing that one, Yeah. They're doing Vision quest, so it's kind of like if you're, if you're going back to the story, if you're going back to the Wanda stuff. OK, fine. With this show, the show that we are supposed to be discussing, how does Agatha tie into all of that? And again, if you were focusing more on her story, her past, instead of just doing it a bit here, a bit there, and you're interspersing all of this other stuff with, you know, the whole mystery behind Alice's mother disappearing or dying and, you know, her being the singer of the The Ballad of the Witch's Road. And all the sudden, like, there's so much of that that I was really getting interested in that part of the story because I was like, oh, y'all giving us all the tea on this. And then you kill Alice and it's just kind of like, yeah, why would I want to get why would I want to get invested in these characters if the characters are not going to be there? I mean, Michelle and I, we talk about this on The Walking Dead all the time with The Walking Dead spin offs. Because you introduce us to these characters. They're very likable and they

1:01:52 don't last more than an episode or two. And it's just. Kind of like. Yeah, I'm also, I was upset about, I was upset about them giving Get real, like doing Alice like that too. I was like, Oh my God. As soon as she hit Agatha with the magic to get the ghost out of her, I was like, Oh God, you're not. And then sure enough, I was like son of a bitch because I I actually really liked her character. I think her character, like you said, her character's back story was way more fleshed out. Like she had a lot more redemption going on with her and she actually was on the path to becoming to being like, you know, to like, you know, finishing her story and be and, you know, getting what she was at after.

1:02:36 But I just I was, that's why that's that's the one part that got me. I was just like, I don't know unless they're going to bring her back. I hope they do, but I'm not, I'm not holding. I hope that they do. It's just like. They probably will. That's probably going to be part of Agatha's redemption story. She's going to bring all the witches back that she. I don't think they're redeeming her. I don't, I'm not, I'm I'm I'm putting a perfect theory. I don't think they're going to give Agatha anything redeeming. And I think they're going to just let I think I think they're going to let tape put her back to the way she was. And because you seemed like she's proud to be a witch and she's proud of the witch that she is. So I don't it's going to take a lot to make her not be that witch that the witch that she is. And I don't think they can get into that. She's going to get that kind of Arc in this in this series. I think that she's just going to be even if they, even if they do, I just, I don't see her change. I, I, I just, I don't know.

1:03:42 I just don't say I don't, I don't see her changing that much. I like in in that way. I don't need her. I don't and I don't feel like she has to have one. I don't see. So yeah, I don't need her. I don't. I do believe that many of the things said about her, I think it's misunderstood. And I think she just goes with it and say, you know what? That's what you want to think. That's what you want to think. And I think that's made her who she is and she's unapologetic. And I don't want her to be apologetic for the choices that she made. Like she didn't kill those witches. They literally was throwing the power to kill her. She just, that's her power, taking their power. Well, you know what, if y'all want to believe that I did that purposely, y'all go for it. But I'm not going to sit here and apologize for anything. And you don't know why I made my choices. So that's why I feel like we got to have some characters that are not always got to be redeemed at the end. Because honestly, she didn't really do anything horrible. I I absolutely agree because it's like, what are you expected to do when your own mother and her coven trying to burn you at the state for for being what what you were born for being what you were created?

1:04:56 And that can go into a whole different type of moral discussion. But. Yeah, she she's basically the Jessica Rabbit of her covens. Like she's not a bad witch, she's just drawn that way. I mean, she's just for her to be. I don't have AI don't have a problem with with her because like Michelle said, she is the way she is because that's that's what happened to her. And the way her powers work. All the witches are scared of her because she killed her whole Kevin, right? So she's like, if you see her and you're a witch and you, Oh my God, she's going to kill me and you shoot her with your powers, she's going to absorb it all. But yeah, because you're trying to kill her. But how many times do you think that has happened to her where she's just minding her own business being a witch, and the witch decides I got to take out Agatha or she's going to kill me.

1:05:54 So I'm probably a lot of witches died thinking they were having to defend themselves. And she's really probably just doing what she does. You know, she can't. And and it seems like, like Michelle said, she has accepted who she is. You know, she's not intentionally trying to kill witches. Her whole thing with Wanda, I really don't understand what she was. I got to watch Wanda Vision again to see what she was trying to do. You know, I think, oh, she was trying to get her to become the Scarlet Witch so she could steal her powers is what she was with what her end game was, right? And and I wonder that that made it she became that way because of being ridiculed and being hunted by all the other witches or having to defend herself her.

1:06:46 Son, she was probably like, fuck it, I I don't, I don't have anything else. Like her son may have been the one thing that kept her from being that witch And then with whatever happened to him, because again, we don't know for sure what happened to her son. We know that he may have been sacrificed or whatever. We also know Rio may have had something to do with it. But aside from that, we don't know nothing. So if her son was taken from her or she accidentally killed her son, or she purposefully killed her son to get the dark cold or whatever the case may be, after that, she's probably like, yeah, fuck it, OK, I'm just going to burn the world down. And I can't say, you know, that I that I blame her, especially if she's being hunted in the way that we saw in her flashback in one division.

1:07:42 I have a theory, I just can't see the look on my face. I mean someone. In the House has the theory that's. Awesome, I love this theory. OK, So what is? Down Michelle had a. Theory So what if she was trying to steal Wanda's power? Make her Scarlet Witch to steal her power to become the most powerful witch in order to buy back her son from the exchange of something that happened with Rio dealing with the stronghold. I. Actually, she's trying to go into battle. That's possible. Yeah. That's.

1:08:22 The very sound theory. Who would be holding her? Her son, Miss Yes. Miss Sister, that's who she would be able to deal with. But she didn't. Make the deal. Maybe she made the deal, but he tricked her in the deal that she made that end up taking her son and now she's going back. And Rio 100% had something to do with that. I I believe that and she knows how he how she can get him back too. And it's going to come. It's going to come to fruition towards the end. I think that's going to be one of the things either she's going to try to trick her into going to get him and getting being trapped in the underworld, or this is something where she says she can get it back but she actually can't. So she's trying to trick her into doing something because the whole thing is like she's trying to get bodies. This will.

1:09:11 Make a great show. But you know what? But that would make a great, great show because basically she's Wanda. She's she's doing everything Wanda did to get her child back. Yeah, but guess what? She's going to make a different choice because guess what's going to happen? She can't get that power from Wanda anymore because Wanda is currently in a Wanda bubble underneath some rubble until it's time for her to get out. So. Wanda's dead. OK. And then she's in. Rubble Wanda's not dead. She's in rubble, so it's going to become a choice where she may have to take the power from Billy. And then though, I'll hold.

1:09:53 On, hold on. If Wanda is not dead and they bring Wanda back and they recast her, I'm going to have a whole lot to say about why. Not. Recasting. Her. They're bringing her back, but she's not. They're not recasting. Why would they? Recast. Why can't she be recasted? No. They're not. They'll have a reason to recast her. To have a whole lot to say. Because if the actress is not coming back and we still need Wanda, we. Have already said that she would be down to reprise Wanda if they asked her so I'm OK. So Anthony, on this one. OK. So they're not going to recast if there was. A If there was a feasible reason for them to recast her, I would be like, OK, yeah, but you know.

1:10:36 I see, I thought she said she was done. So since she's not done, they're not going to recast her. So so let me let me translate. If he's dead and she's not dead, not dead because we didn't see a body. Because I don't remember seeing Tatala's body either. And is. Something totally different. We can't even use that as an example. I'm sorry, Cut the tapes, cut the tapes. We can't use that. Else gives their character back. But you can't. That was a totally. I feel the same way that I get it, but we can't use that as an example. So either Marvel kills their characters, often they don't come back, or they kill them off and bring them back when they want to, when it's convenient for their story and for them. OK, I see how that works.

1:11:27 OK, yeah, they do that all the. Time. Yeah, that's every show. We do that all the time. Yeah, that's everything we watch. Doom, Walking Dead. I mean hello. Yeah, but. It's not just marvelous, it's everything. Every fictional show does that be convenient. Convenience is a motherfucker, and I agree with you. It it would be. I mean, there's certain things that would be fucked up, but it's. But I will say this too. Again, they brought back Kingpin. He got shot in the fucking face. Yes, but I will say this too with going back to what Michelle said. So you were like, yes, well, you know, she said she was done. So you have to really pay attention to the way that those actors are saying those particular things because I don't think they're saying that they are done in the MCU when they are saying that they are done.

1:12:19 I think they're saying that certain things are done or certain storylines are done. But I think it's I think all of them are open-ended still. I mean, think about it, RDJ was one of the 1st very adamant ones that he was done in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and we see he's coming back there. We we saw we saw Thor in Deadpool and Wolverine, even though we know that. Chris Evans in Deadpool and Wolverine. Well, yeah, but he wasn't capped so. So there's a difference. But but, but I see what you know. Everything is a negotiation. The the only person I know for a fact, well, I'm not going to say I know for a fact.

1:13:00 The only person most unlikely to come back and Scarlett Johansson, because she's suing them for. No, they settled that. She's working with. She's working with the. Yeah, she's getting. Paid. They settled that within like two months. But is she going to come back and she's. Getting like executive producer, she gets executive producer credits and everything like she's there you. Go she will. She will come back. She will. Come back because she wasn't mistreated see it's that's different than Wonder Woman. She was mis and sued. She's never going to be Wonder Woman again, but. Scott the only person that's not coming back is chat with Bozeman so. Yeah.

1:13:40 And that's because that's, yeah, that's life. Other than that, it's it's an open thing. And I mean, people say what they want to about these Marvel films. You know, you have all of these quote UN quote esteemed actors and directors and producers and all of this stuff saying all this negative stuff about, you know, the Marvel movies and, and what they do. But let's let's go, let's speak facts, OK, Marvel films. Hey, a shit ton of money, you know what I'm saying? You can do 1 Marvel film and probably retire. So you really think that any of those actors are going to close the door and be like, no, I would never play this character again? Absolutely not.

1:14:28 The only person with the close door is Terrence Howard, 'cause he missed, he missed out. And I don't even know. And I I've never gotten the full story about that because I've heard that that wasn't his choice. So he's eating. No Maine, It's RDJ Maine. Is RDJRDJ screwed me Maine? So. You like me, Maine? I'm just saying. Everything is good. I wish. They never, we, we could always see Wanda, especially if they're, they're doing a Vision show. Paul Bettany is coming back for that. So you really think Elizabeth Olsen is about to be like, oh, hold up. So y'all coming back, getting this check and playing these characters that you that you originated give me my Scarlet Witch.

1:15:20 Especially because she loves that character so much. Like she is one of the she is one of those actors who did her research about Wanda Maximoff in the comics. So she knows the whole story. She knows the whole art. She's talked about wanting to do House of M so yeah, I'm not counting her out. She may show up at the end of this, like, Oh yeah, you thought I was dead. What's up, bitch? You never know. You never know. She's looking for her child. Her child is right there. She can come back. She's going to, she's going to show up. He's he's going to try to bring Tommy back and bring her back.

1:16:03 That's probably what's going to happen. You know what? What are the two? Either one or the two or both? He's going to. Try. He's going to go looking for Tommy. Yeah, I'm or he's going to find Tommy and they're both going to go look for her. So is he? Either way, it's going to happen either way. That's a great theory, Anthony. I appreciate that. Good. Looking that's not a theory, That's that's that's that's the realization that everything is a negotiation. Yeah. All right, OK. All right. Jesse Jackson. It's the realization of the negotiation, of the proclamation, of the situation. Jesse Jackson or TI? Which one? No, no, see, I, I it's not the proclivitation. I didn't say that.

1:16:48 But OK, so now that we've gotten all of our points out the way, let's let's talk about some good things about the show because I'm not, I'm not saying I hate the show. I'm just saying it just hasn't caught me like the rest of the shows did or like the earlier shows did. But there are some good things about it. Like you said, Mike, the the the beat drop at the end of episode 5. I was here for it because I love that song anyway. I love that song too. I've been on two different playlists. I love that fucking. Song So that was good. Like I said, when once Agatha started realizing that she was in a spell and she starts taking off these layers of the person that she was, that was cool because I love seeing them have her in this. She was in the morgue, and of course the morgue is in color, but they have her in the black and white. I love it.

1:17:43 When they do stuff like that. Because it looks so cool. And also that iteration of her character I liked a little bit more. Because again, we're just looking at this Agnes character like she's the neighbor, she's Wanda's friend, She might be one of the ones that's also brainwashed. Then when you get the reveal, the whole Agatha all along with the song, it was like mind blow. That's the Agatha that I want. And I feel like that's not the Agatha I'm getting in the show. You know what I'm saying? You see her come out just a little bit, but that's not what we're getting. I think that's the main thing that kind of is bothering me about this show because the character doesn't seem to match what I remember her being.

1:18:35 Like I said, I feel like she's she's overdoing the sass. She's overdoing the the kind of the arrogance that she has about being the most powerful witch or being the only witch that's completed the the witch's road and all this this other stuff. Maybe if she takes it down just a little bit it won't seem to. But but I think, I think that I think that she kind of she kind of she's doing that just to kind, she is overcompensating, but she's doing that because she's been she's been handcuffed for three years. It's like she's she could because she because she's been under a spell for three years. And she's just like, think about it when she. Came out talking about, I'm not talking about Agatha as the character, I'm talking about Catherine as the actress.

1:19:21 Because the way she's playing it, it makes it to me. It makes it very obvious that she's an actor playing a role as opposed to her being this character. You get what I'm saying? Like some people when they when they do certain things or when they, it's just the way that they are with the characters, you feel like that is that character. You have to remind yourself, oh, wait, they're playing a part. I can't, I don't feel that with her. It's, it's like to me, it's very obvious that she is an actor playing a role. And I and I feel like that's kind of sort of what Agatha is supposed to be doing as well. But it's still, it just feels very off for me. It doesn't.

1:20:04 It just doesn't feel natural to me. OK, and for me it does. Like I feel like she's crawling through cobwebs right now. OK. And I guess because I've seen Catherine so many different things like it, it totally isn't even close to anything that she has done. OK. It just, it makes me, I guess because I also seen like adults like that. It's almost like like when she was in doing that, oh it's Agatha all along that was going with how the shows was even though she had created that for Wanda. But here this is essentially her. But for me, I feel like she is waking up, trying to fully wake up and also figure out what her end game should be because right now Wanda was her end game.

1:20:57 Now it's OK, I'm trying to get my powers back, but there's other components in play. And she knows it because she still knows that she has to deal with the seven, which is extremely creepy as hell. And Billy, the team like figuring like figuring him out until she really until she can figure out who he really is because she figured it out, you know, then. So I just feel like it's that just kind of gathering yourself back to who you are. I I can get that if I if I look at it from. There and you're a little bit all over. You're a little bit all over the place, like you're, you know, you're riding that bicycle after you hadn't ridden it for years.

1:21:39 OK of yourself right, right. OK, I can I can see that. I can see that, but I just I I just I need the show to get better for me. I mean, and like I said, it's it's not that it's a bad show, but it's just like when I think about some of the other shows and how for me, damn near perfect they're they were Wanda vision being very first Falcon in The Winter Soldier. Like a lot of people. I don't know why more people don't like that show, but that show I don't either with the characters with the chemistry between the two leads, just with the the the subject matters that they deal with like that. That is a top notch marvel show.

1:22:28 Miss Marvel, top notch Marvel show. You know, Moonlight, which Oh my God, can y'all please tell us if we get in the second season already because that was a. It's like, it's like, it's like 6040 now. It's like they keep saying they are, but see, it's like they're trying to tie it. They're trying to tie a lot of things into Midnight Suns, which they also said that they're doing. So it's like they they again, they're doing the same fucking thing. They're trying to do too much at once and put a lot of things and tie them in and do all this other stuff. All they're going to do is end up, they would end up like tying their fingers together and cutting off their circulation and then they're not going to be able to do anything.

1:23:09 So it's like, just give me, just give me Moon Night season 2 so I can so we can finally see Jake and do something. They do Midnight Suns, they just did it as a video game. Yeah, but but yeah, so I need them to go back to the narrow focus because you're telling us stuff that's coming out 2026, 2020, 7/20/28. Right now we don't need to look that far ahead because y'all shit keeps changing. You've already had to change the Cane dynasty. You're giving us all this other stuff.

1:23:51 Blade still ain't got off the ground. So it's just kind of. Like it's only going to be 1 blade. So it's just like. There's going to be no blade. It might not, but my my thing is just kind of pull the focus in just a little bit. Just like with the Infinity Saga, like you had all of these properties or all of these films that kind of converge into this one saga. OK, if you're going to do what is it Secret Wars? Or if you're going to do what is ARM Awards, just focus on something, get us to that point and then start moving to the next thing. Because at this point y'all got too many, y'all got too many things in the frying pan. And it's just it's, it's becoming a, a todurkan. It's, it's too much.

1:24:41 It's like all these. Things. Mixed together. Now I'm hungry. Well, you know, it is close to Thanksgiving, but, you know, it's just all of these things that's just get. Give us some focus, y'all. Y'all need some focus. Y'all need some focus. Yeah. If y'all are going to give us this Agatha story, we have four more episodes. We need Agatha's story. If it was Agatha all along, tell us how, tell us why I don't need all of the extra stuff. It's just, yeah, especially, especially if you going to kill off the extra stuff before we get the full story. So yeah, I, that's, that's just my two cents. I, I'm still going to give it a try because like I said, the last last 10 minutes of episode 5, that's what hooked me. That's what kept me from abandoning the show being like, OK, you know what?

1:25:36 I'm done. I now that we know who teen is, I mean, they didn't say his name, but the dude had the crown just like his Mama. That's that's absolutely Billy Maxima I'm here for. Him that's that's definitely a good. One right. Let me see what they about to do. Let me see what this kid Joe Locke is about to do with this character. And and I think that's that's going to be a good thing because that means that these last few episodes, they're going to be locked in on their path because there's none of this uncertainty anymore. So it's clear that whoever is writing this is locked in on on what they're going to do for the next three episodes. Yeah, Hope, hopefully, hopefully that's.

1:26:19 What I. Want to see? Yeah, right. Because if it's, if it's Billy Maximoff, then we got we, we have, we have a story. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like it's going to be if, if it is him, then it's not really Agatha story. It's really a continuation of Wanda story, which is which I think is a disservice to Agatha's character. Maybe not because it could still be out of the story, especially because they keep referencing her son. So I really strongly feel like we are going to see her son in this show and maybe Billy is the thing that's going to lead her to her son or lead her to be able to get back her son.

1:27:05 Or maybe, I don't know, maybe without his brother and without his mom, maybe he sacrifices his power. He gives her his power so she can get her son back. I don't know that there could be so many different ways that they can do it. But I don't feel like Agatha story is over. I feel like they just waited too long to say, OK, now we're about to show you what we're about to do with this character. And I really hope that's what they're about to do. Because if if you could come in episode 6, episode 7 and get me to be like, oh, OK, I'm down. I'm not going to be mad. I will take back every negative thing I have said about this show.

1:27:49 If you can get me on board and show me the path and show me where it makes sense, but right now it's just really not making much sense to me. I, I, I don't know, maybe maybe I'm crazy, maybe my, my mind just functions different than normal people. But I I can, I appreciate. The way that other people are the normal people and not you are the normal person. Right. Have you met me? Because. Then then I'm with you so, but you know. I mean this, I mean this, this. I like the way that the way that thank you, thank you, Michelle. The way the way that they've they've arranged this season makes perfect sense to me.

1:28:33 It's like they introduce, they get one, they get one. I guess the back she gets her coven. They sing a beautiful song. They go down the witches Rd. they lose. They killed Debbie, Jill Rupp in the third episode, which is, you know, I don't think she should have been there anyway. I like because that, because I, I think she, I think Wanda just was sick of her and was like, just bring her. She she dies, she dies. I don't care. So I guess that's the other part of of the thing that bothers me with Agatha, because I was just like, why would you bring this woman down here? Because they need to know her and not tell her what you're doing. Like, you know, she didn't. Even know the song like. You.

1:29:18 Know the song. You know what it's like being held hostage in your own mind, not able to control what you're doing, where you going, how you're doing it. You've been, you've been trapped for three years and before that, I don't even remember what the timeline was for Westview as far as when Wanda got there and everything happened to the time that she got discovered and and it was fixed. I don't remember what the time frame is, but you were part of this illusion as well. So the fact that you just bring this woman down here, you don't tell her what you're doing, you don't tell her what she's doing there. You just bring her and just expect her to just do whatever.

1:30:02 I was just like. No, she didn't. Because. Anything from your experiences? That's that's the other part. And, and going back to what you were saying, Mike, I don't think it has to do with, you know, you looking at it in a different way, being as far as being normal, being weird, whatever the case is, y'all know me, I'm always about the character development. I want the story, I want the background. I want to know what the motivation is for this character and the path that they're going to go through to get to the end of their story. And it's just right now, I just don't see that with access. And then, like I said, you have all these other characters that you've introduced and you've only given us a part of their story, and then you kill them off or you make them disappear. Because we don't know for sure what happened to Jen and Lil at the end of the episode.

1:30:56 We just know that Billy, you know, he blasts Agatha into some quick mud quicksand and he does the same thing with the other two ladies so they could still be alive. But again, you, you giving us these people and you don't really, you don't give us anything to connect to them. And like I said, Imam Vilani said it, You got to go back to making people care about the characters. And I just right now, I just really don't except for teen because I feel like I already I won't say I know the story there because how he got there after what happened in Westview and Wanda getting rid of everything, that's the story I want to know.

1:31:39 But I mean, again, I care about that character. I I want to know. See, I care about Agatha. I want to know. I want to know too, but they're not giving it to me so it's making it. No, let's see, because she's just like and she's not going to give it up easily. That type of character is not giving it up easily. Yeah, yeah, that's the hard part about it. Yeah. But I mean, we got 4 episodes. They they can fix it. They can make me change my mind. They have time. Not as much time as I want, because again, he would go one of these ridiculously short seasons. But I guess that's just the way it is now if you're not on, if you're not on network TV. So I guess I have to deal with it. But you got 4, you got 4 episodes, Disney Plus and Marvel to convince me that this is a good show. Because right now I'm just, I like, like, Anthony said. I'm.

1:32:37 OK, well, can we give a shout out to the the opening? Do you like the opening? I do. I like the opening and I do also like the closing credits because you see all of these various references to like witches throughout history, both and non fiction. So so yeah, I I do like it. Like I said, there are certain things about I do like I loved the first version of the witches Rd. The second version was OK, but I was like, OK, are we going to have to hear this song every single episode? Because I just. OK, you're on the Witch's Road. It's literally the theme song to The Witch's Road. But every single version of it, I don't need to hear the country version, I don't need to hear the reggae version, I don't need to hear the sky version.

1:33:28 I just don't. Wait till wait till you hear the hip hop, the Hip Hop Premier remix, the Neptune 3 mix coming up. It was actually genius of Alice Mom to sing a song that becomes so popular that people will sing it and it will constantly protect your kid. Perfect. Yeah, she basically made all her fans a. Coven, yeah. I mean, she did awesome to open up the role and to like for the protection spell. It was perfect. That was perfect. Unfortunately, it didn't protect her much, whereas Agatha. No, she died. Like, yeah, I know. That they killed the whole reason for the protection spill, so then the protection spill had no reason to continue the work. Yeah, you, you're right, You're right. Well, no, because the protection she was protecting her from the curse was still was cursing her, but that was whatever. No, the curd they they lifted they they they abated the curse. End episode.

1:34:26 Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I mean, like it wasn't keep her alive, it was just keeping her from not being as cursed with the curse. But she was still cursed, was still losing her jobs and she I'm still cursed. Right? But then someone else kills her. But we're hoping that when they die on the road maybe they like wake up back into the non Rd. Because I think that's one of the things they said at the beginning. Conical I'm saying I'm hoping. I'm hoping. OK, let let me go with this dream. Here. Oh yeah. Just hold on. Hold on to that. Because it's not that damn for real. We we trying to bring them back. OK, OK, I get you. I get. It for real For real. OK, I. Got you.

1:35:06 Right, 'cause it makes no sense. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I don't like it either. I'm I'm hoping that they figure out, figure out a way that that Jen, Jen and and Lily can pull themselves, pull themselves from them, But there's no accidents going to because the show's about her. She's going to. Put where where activists and I tell them is the reason why she's the only one that survived the witches Rd. Is she killed all the witches that was with her the first times? Well, duh, they dare. I figured that out, dude. It's like, I think, I think, I think Jen knew. I think Jen. Jen probably had an idea. That's why that's why it happened, because she doesn't trust her at all. It's like that's why Lily probably then I Lily didn't want to go.

1:35:51 She's like, I'm not going just so you can kill me. Like fuck you. And I think Rio also has something to do with that because she said something about giving her the bodies. Yeah. So I was like, oh, OK, that's the other thing. So like I said, I don't have a problem with Rio's character. I think as AI don't know if I want to call her an antagonist because she hasn't really been antagonisty with everyone. She's just a little bit weird and and a little bit scary. But she hasn't. But. Where did she? Go Where did she go? Because at the end of the episode, she wasn't around.

1:36:39 Well, she she had a body to collect. She had. She had. Did she come out of the house? She. She might have been still in the house with Alice. Yeah. Because she did say something about collecting the bodies and I was like, OK, so why are you collecting bodies? But they never again, they never explained that. But yeah, she may be in the house with Alice, so OK. I think she does her own thing. Let her be. Yeah, and I'm, I think, I think she has a little 'cause there's still some scenes from the previews that we haven't seen yet, and I think she's the one that's pretty prevalent. So that's pretty important to the story of what's going to happen.

1:37:27 So she's going to come up eventually. And I mean, she does her own thing anyway. So it's like, I mean, we didn't even know she was a green. I mean, it's like she is. So I don't know what she is like. Some people says the green, the green. Yeah. Yeah, but I, but I, I think that, I mean, there have been some people who are, who are saying that she might be deaf because remember when they, when they were on the, the Ouija board and they spelled out deaf, she just kind of laughed. So they're like that. She laughed because she knows that there's, there's so, so there's such a, a weird aura around her as to what, as to what her end game is other than killing Agnes. I think, I think that she has some I I mean, I how was she her being?

1:38:22 So her being summoned to the road still kind of perplexes me a little bit. I'm just like, I'm like, is this? Is this something about it That's weird. I can't put my finger on it, but I probably will be able to. I But by the time by the time they reveal everything, I'll be able to put my finger. On Yeah, I was gonna say it has to do it has to do with something having to do with Agatha, obviously, because she was also part of the reason why Agatha broke through Wanda's spell. But again, it's just kind of like you, you keep teasing this past relationship between the two, but you're not really giving us anything for it is like you telling us, OK, they were in a relationship.

1:39:10 She obviously betrayed Agatha, probably in the worst way. And there's just kind of, there's this back and forth between them and it's like. Or vice versa. Because I mean, she wants to kill Agatha. It's like, it's not like just the other way around. It's like Agatha doesn't really want to kill her, she wants to kill Agatha. So Agatha obviously did something to to earn that rage from her. I don't know. Because because Agatha was trying to get away from me. She's not. She's not trying to instigate instigate an interaction. Between like. She's not trying to fight. Her like this is close to kissing her before Rio, said actor. That's not your son.

1:39:52 Love does some love does some fucked up things, man. Love is a love is a motherfucker. Yeah, so again, it's a thin line. So. So they got to Queen. Love and hate. They they they got 4 episodes to change my mind. I think they're going to I, I, I can't wait to see where they take this. I think the, the final two episode, the final two episodes are going to be key. I think that the two episodes leading up to those two episodes are going to give probably give a little bit more of a back story. I think. I think they'll get to the end of the Witches Rd. By the end of the, of course, the episode before last is the penultimate episode, so you know they're going to get to the end of the Witch's Road at the end of that episode, and then the next episode will be them, whatever happens with them getting what they want or whatever. Setting up the next the next show or the next, whatever. Yep, setting up wherever they're going next, yeah. I, I really hope they approach this has like when they were mapping in the South and riding it, that they were like, we're just going to do one season.

1:41:00 I really hope they did that. I hope they didn't do it where we want to leave it open at the end because we want to do a season 2. But I, I really think Marvel's been doing well with having these shows end and just be one season. And if you can come back and come back for a season 2 and do a different story. But don't leave this on the cliffhanger, you know? Yeah, a cliffhanger, and then we'll have to wait 3-4, five years to see what's going to happen. Like if it, if it happens at all, right. And I do have hope, like I'm, I'm like Hanukkah. I, I, it's not that I hate the show. I think it could be better. I don't think it's bad. I think it's just OK. Like I don't want anyone to think that I think the show is terrible.

1:41:45 I, I, I like some of the performances in the show. I like the music in the show. I like John Locke. I like Joe Locke. I don't know, I said. John Locke. Joe, I like you. Think a lot. Yeah, I'm. Thinking philosophy. It's your philosophy. Yeah. And even though I don't really care for Captain Hum I, I think she actually is really good as act of artist. I just think that I just think that the role is not. It's not the way the story is being written to me. It's not big enough for her. It's not her to me right now. It's still sort of like a continuation of Wanda's story now.

1:42:31 And but I do have hope because I think knowing pretty much because of the crown, knowing that this is Billy Maximoff, I think narrows the focus of the show. And I think it's probably going to get stronger on the back end than it was in the beginning. Like I think they did a lot of meandering and a lot and a lot of setup for a payoff later. And hopefully it's a pretty big payoff. OK, now I will say this, I do think we will be adding acts of Harkness to our mother's panel for contradiction once we find out. Yeah, we can add her mom too.

1:43:11 So yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that's going to have people want to talk about Wanda and her mothering skills. Well, you know, we we can do that 'cause, you know, I'm on the one the defense team because. Yeah. Her kids are just her imagination. Do y'all have any final thoughts on the 1st? OK, real quick. All along all. Right, real quick shout out to Marvel for continuing to to give the LGBTQ plus community a a voice and like to show to show them in a in a reasonably positive light, I think, I think. Why do you seem reasonably, reasonably positive? Because.

1:43:56 OK, positive light story. Don't make sense. It's like y'all telling us that they were involved and that's it. Just like. I said I mean, because because their their relationship, probably their, their relationship's kind of toxic, but I think that that team is, is a is a positive role model for the game. Is is. I mean, he, he's obviously gay. He doesn't care if people know he's gay. And he and he is a really good character. So that that's a good character for the gay community in my opinion. Shout out to Patti Lupo. Damn it. I love this woman that I mean, Tony Award winner, Grammy winner, Olivier Award winner. I mean, she deserves this and I'm glad that she's getting all the that she's getting.

1:44:40 I think she's doing a really underrated job in this. I like, I like, I really like her character. I mean, her character does and she's, since she's a diviner, was that that's the right way to. To describe her, yeah, sure, she's a clairvoyant. She's a clairvoyant. Yeah. It's like, it's like, I mean her just like I was blurting out Alice don't save Agatha. It's like, because, I mean, because that's that's another thing that I didn't pick up until I watch reactions. I was like, oh shit, like in the in the second episode, she's like save Agatha. And then in the other one she says Alice don't.

1:45:21 So she's seeing, she's seeing her things in reverse and it's like, Oh shit. So at any rate, I, I'm, I'm a paleopone fan. I I I think she's really good. Like, are you? I'm just shut. Also shout to the original cast in the first episode. Just acting like everything's OK and going along and poor poor what's his name? Like watching her go, watching her investigate her, his flower bushes, thinking that as a body. I mean is it Hank? Damn, what's his name?

1:46:01 But yeah, I mean, he, he went through the worst because he's like right across the street from her. She's like, oh God, here she comes again. Just don't pay attention to her. Just literally do what she's going to do. Yeah, I still got issues with the neighbors. I mean, I know there's probably not much they can do against the magical entity, but the fact that they were like, I mean, because when she started coming out of the spell, she was like, how long have I been like this? He was like 3 years. She was like, y'all didn't do anything. Well, we, we just kind of was. What were they going to do? They. Can't do anything. I know, but still it's just. But it's like, it's like, basically, I mean, I mean, really, this is not Wanda's fault. This is all her fault because she because she put, she put Agatha under a spell and then left.

1:46:47 And now Agatha just thinks that she's one of them. And all everyone around here is looking at her like, Mitch, you were just in the air fighting and fighting the Scarlet Witch. We know. We know that you're not. We know you're not normal. And then she goes around pretending she's detective one day, then she's something else another day. She's all in herbs, fucking rose bushes. She goes to the library making a scene with Dottie and it's like, and like nobody knows what the fuck's going on. Like everybody's like, they're just, they're basically playing on this is this is basically a supernatural episode of the Truman Show because everybody knows that she's not, Everybody knows she's fucked up, but nobody's doing anything about it. They're just letting her go along thinking that she's doing whatever the fuck she's doing today.

1:47:30 And it's like, I mean, they're just like. I think in the beginning, I'm thinking in the beginning they tried because remember, everybody kind of the government kind of knows what happens there. I'm sure, you know, damage control probably try to do some things when they went there and fixed everything. And I'm sure they tried and they were like, you know what, There's nothing we can do. No one gave Doctor Strange a call to see if he could undo it. But at some point they were probably like, we tried to get out of this, let's just go with it. Some, some therapist probably came along. It was like, you know what, let's just go with it and maybe it'll go away.

1:48:12 But it wasn't working, whatever they were trying to do, so they just stopped and just decided to go along with it because that's. The government can't handle natural stuff. What? Make sure they can handle supernatural stuff. I'm not saying no. I'm. Just saying they, they probably went through all these people in this city, probably had to go through therapy after what happened to them. Yeah, Yeah, you were, they probably still going. You're right that when they were trying to help her, it wasn't working. And so they all decided as a community, we're going to just help her through this and just go along with it because of all the things that they just went through, knowing that, you know, they had no control over what was happening to them. They were consciously aware of what was happening to them, couldn't do anything about it.

1:49:05 So I'm sure they were very sympathetic to her plight because they're she's, she's, I was. Going to say no they weren't because they because she was part of the reason why Wanda was. I mean. Holding on to all of that for. So long. Speaking of dude, lock her up. She wasn't. They just had the Scarlet Witch, her robot husband, and her fighting all around the damn town. Vision destroyed their fucking library. It's like, how's library even still standing? Vision went through the fucking roof in that library. They they probably had some fun. So what was so it probably was like, OK, we don't get y'all this money and y'all just be quiet. It's like they they went through so much, it's like they probably, they probably still have still have tanks around there and shit like fucking they just left them because, you know, government don't don't like cleaning up after themselves. They're probably tanks and all kinds of shit just sitting out there in the fucking field.

1:49:58 It's like just fucking just, I mean, people, people probably still have half a house, but. What What tell you say a problem? What was the Angel going to do? Like, what was Andrew Wu and SWORD? What were they going to do with this woman who is supposedly very powerful, who Wanda has basically made something else and they can't do anything about it, but they can't lock her up? Asia Wu's back in San Francisco, that was. That was proven in Quantum Mania. He had. He was having lunch with Scott, that goes. Back to everything.

1:50:41 Back together. And we're not a that. Doesn't even mean that he didn't go there and actually try to break it. So it I mean, we can't discount that we don't know. But what we do know is that all these people, despite what she did, they were still trying to help her get through it. Nobody locked her up, sword could easily put her away, put her on the raft and just left her there to rock. They didn't do that. What what's what's what's we're going to do? Come up with some card tricks. You know what? And on that note, that's it for our show. You can no Mike put the cards down.

1:51:22 You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. I hope you join the conversation next time.