Captain America: Brave New World - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #337

0:24 What's up, hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of the Phantom Hybrid podcast. This is Hanukkah and I am here with Anthony, Mike and Casey. So, you know, we got to be talking about some Marvel stuff, lest this. Or Fast and Furious. Captain America, Brave New World and I'm pretty sure from some of the comments I have seen on folks's social media that there's some switches to this movie. So let's get into it. What were your first thoughts and then we'll go with you first. You can start with. Me, you really want to start with it, OK. You want to start from the bottom and go up.

1:05 Let's just, yeah, let's just get the bad out of the way 'cause I, I, I got a feeling from his post that you didn't really care for it too much. I mean, it's hard to say. I didn't care for it. I was sort of like lukewarm, you know, like, man, maybe OK. Because the reason why it's hard is Anthony Mackie gave like a really great performance. He did. He was really he. Was. Amazing. Really good. He was really good. Harrison Ford wasn't doing it just for the paycheck. He was really, really good. Yeah.

1:45 Like I was sold on Thunderbolt, Ross. Yeah. And then it kind of stops there. Oh oh. Yeah, they didn't have a lot to really work with and I just felt like it was a movie that was doing too much. It was like 4 half baked movie ideas kind of thrown together. And you said something brilliantly. We were talking offline about it being we'd just say it was a sequel to it was it felt. Like it was a sequel to The Inherit of a Hulk instead of a Captain America story? Yeah. Yeah. And then it also felt like a continuation of the Falcon and Winter Soldier.

2:29 And you can kind of tell where the reshoots were there. You can kind of tell storylines. They started. They kind of, I feel like Giancarlo Esposito was just kind of thrown in it. It's obvious he was thrown in at the last minute. Don't even know why. It's not even necessary, right? There was there was so many half. This is like the third time that we've seen a Marvel movie or Marvel property where they they have all these starter good ideas and they just kind of like woof on it. And that's and that's what it felt like. Like there was a there was I can't even say there was a movie in there.

3:13 Like maybe I could have stitched a really good movie together. Not I really couldn't. There wasn't. You could have take, you literally could have taken him out, put in some other random Marvel character and made it. Yeah, it made it a Red Hook movie. Like, you don't think Bruce is interested in what's happening right now. She Hulk, she not interested in what's happening with the Red Hulk. Like, come on, guys, come on. That That's that's all I'm going to say. Like, I wanted it, You know, I avoided the spoilers. I avoided watching the trailers.

3:54 I wanted to go in clean, I wanted to go in know the expectations and I just felt like I was kind of let down. Like I I have to go back and rewatch FACT and when it sold, it sold it to kind of cleanse my palate. OK, Yeah, OK. I got it. All right. Mike, what about you? OK, so here's the thing. No, I got to be honest, I don't know how I feel about this movie. And it's not because I've heard a lot of everyone else's opinions on it, because if I if that was the case, that would feel one way or the other. But I've heard a lot of people's reviews of it. I've read stuff about it that don't agree with. And I, I gotta be honest, I don't necessarily know how I feel about this movie.

4:52 I mean, I know how I feel about Anthony Mackie. He's still one of my favorite actors in the MCUI know he did a good job. I know that Harrison Ford took on a daunting task and actually killed it. Like, this is probably one of his better acting jobs that he's done in the last few years. Yeah, when you look at his, he he did really good, and I was impressed. I'm glad that Carl Lumbley got in it and acted his ass off again. Maybe this time he'll actually get nominated for it. Yeah. I mean, Carl, Carl Lumley broke my heart, dude. I mean, he that's one of the main things I took away from this was that Carl Lumley is a great fucking guy, is an incredible actor. Like he was so good in this.

5:37 And I was just like, but other than that, Joaquin was good, but he wasn't in it enough for me to be like get a good impression of it of him again. John Carl, Lebzio, Giancarlo was thrown into it and I feel bad because the character he's played was to be played by Seth Rollins, who's a wrestler in WWE. Like this was his role and they had already filmed a lot of the stuff, but they cut it and got Giancarlo Esposito. I guess they didn't like what he did so so that. Was gonna say why, OK. Yeah, I guess they did. It was like him and someone else that there's another character that Seth Rollins was interacting with as Sidewinder. But it did.

6:24 I guess whatever happened, either they saw it and it didn't, they didn't like it, or when they tested it, it didn't work well, 'cause I was like, who the fuck is that? Why? Or whatever, whatever, whatever the case they could. I do remember hearing that the first time they test screened it, there weren't the audience wasn't favorable towards it. Yeah. So I know, I know they went in and did some research and and changed some things after that, so. And The thing is, it's like, I really didn't like Giancarlo Esposito with this. I don't understand why he was in it. And it's like, I just don't get it. And it I'm, I, I, I know we need an antagonist, but that's what the leader is for. And the leader himself, I did. I don't know what to think is like, I understand. You see what I'm saying is like.

7:12 We'll talk, we'll talk about that because I got, I got some thoughts about that whole thing too. OK, it's like, because I've I know who leader is because I've read Hulk comics, I know what he's supposed to look like. He's not supposed to look like he has a tumor. He's supposed to have a big smooth head. It is his. I mean, and that kept distracting me from the fact that template Nelson probably did a he did a good job acting the part. Like I was like, I was cool with him as the main antagonist. I was like, from what he did, the way he set it up, and now that I'm like, OK, I'm cool with that. OK. I just kept getting distracted by the fact that he looked, he looked like he had he had active brain cancer coming out of his head. So it's like I just, but again, other than that, I just don't know how I feel about this movie is I don't feel strongly for it.

8:02 I don't feel strongly against it. The parts I liked I really liked, but the whole movie as a whole, I'm just like. OK. It's weird. OK. Casey, what you got? I liked it OK, and having seen The Incredible Hulk, I didn't feel like it was like an Incredible Hulk sequel. I did feel like they wrapped up a lot of stuff from that movie, but I didn't feel like it was like he said, a sequel or, you know, yes, it had a lot of the same people, but I still enjoyed it.

8:44 I did like Anthony May. Well, I like the whole thing. I think everybody did do a really good job. I really like the fighting sequences. I think overall, I mean, I would watch it again. So it's a if it if I wouldn't watch it again. It wasn't a good movie, but I would actually watch that one again. Like, I like some of the little jokes and I like, I mean, I like Anthony Mackie anyway. But for me, as not having read the comics and not following anything other than the Marvel movies themselves, it did it for me. I liked it.

9:24 Yes, yes. You still have that where you miss Steve Rogers. And yeah. And like he kept saying I ain't Steve. And so in that knowing he's not Steve, knowing he's not a super soldier, knowing he's just a regular old guy and his ass fucked up like it was, I enjoyed it. OK. You know, for me not having all the background like you got, like I didn't see who was supposed to be playing what or who, you know, I don't get that deep into it. OK, question, did you watch The Falcon and The Winter Soldier? I did OK, I did. But to like and not knowing who all these other people were supposed to be it it worked for me.

10:08 OK. Even with him, a Sidewinder, I understood why he was there as sort of like a moving piece on the chess board for the main guy. But I didn't dislike what he did. I mean, I like him anyway, you know, no matter what. So. But it for me it wasn't like, oh, why is he here? You know, like y'all are, but again, that's with me not going deep into who should have played this role and who did that. And you know, I don't look at none of that. I just go see the movie and take it for what it is. And of course, I have no comic book knowledge of anything. So I only know based on what I'm viewing and and based on that I I liked it.

10:49 I plan on going to see it again, but I I liked it. I like the story, I like the action, I like everything about it. OK. That's fair. OK, so for me, I loved the movie I did, but I also had some issues with some of the parts of the movie. Kind of echoing what everyone else said, Anthony Mackie, just amazing him as Sam being Captain America. I think we see a continuation of the growth of of what his character went through in Falcon and The Winter Soldier. And you kind of see him as a more mature, more confident Captain America.

11:29 But you do still see a little bit of the doubt, especially when all of the stuff like really starts going wrong, especially when Joaquin gets hurt. You, you still get to see a little bit of that humanizing element of Sam that I think makes him a great Captain America. I think he played it very well. I liked the banter between him and Joaquin and this one, I think a little bit better than I did in The Falcon and The Winter Soldier because I went back and watched the show before the movie came out and something about their banter was bothering me. And I think it was just because one, Joaquin was very new like him, him and Sam had Sam had just met each other. And when he was trying to give Sam like help and give him some Intel, I noticed Sam was cutting him off a lot. And that was bothering me because that's that that kind of doesn't vibe with Sam's character. But I think it was just part of that whole, I don't know, maybe he just wasn't used to having a quote UN quote sidekick or someone there to assist him.

12:40 And now you see that they're a little bit more familiar with each other. They work with each other better. They have a lot of the same kind of banter with each other. And I love seeing that. I also love Joaquin's character because to me, he is Sam. The way Sam was with Cat, You know, Steve Rogers was always the serious one. And, you know, Sam was the one who had the jokes. He was the one that had the mouth. He was the one that kept the humor going. And with Joaquin's character, he's very much a kid in the candy store. Like everything is new, everything is shiny. He's so excited. And I love that because Sam in in his version of Captain America can get a little bit serious as well. And I think Joaquin kind of balances that out. So I love those two together.

13:30 Harrison Ford, I think I saw an interview where Harrison said he was so happy to step into the MCU. He was like, I've been wanting to do one of these Marvel films and it was so refreshing for me because so much of what we've heard about the Marvel films in the last few years, especially from Hollywood's quote UN quote elite or the legends. You know, they all say that it's it's just, you know, flash in the pan is taking away from real cinema, blah, blah, blah. So for someone like Harrison Ford to be like, yes, I really wanted to be in this. And for him to come in and really make the roll of Thunderbolt Ross his, you know, he had to take over that role from the late William Hurt.

14:16 So that's already daunting in itself when you when you're playing a recast character. But he did such a great job. And it's like, I feel like he was the version of Thunderbolt Ross that we needed for this film. I don't know if I could have felt sympathetic toward William Hurts Thunderbolt, especially considering I went back and well, OK, let me clarify. I quote UN quote went back to go watch the Incredible Hulk after I watched Cap Captain America just to realize that I had never fully watched the Incredible Hulk when I thought I watched it when it first came out. So having to rewatch this, this character and the stuff that he did and everything, I was like, even if William Hurt was alive, I don't think I would have felt sympathetic towards his character because he was such an asshole Incredible Hulk.

15:10 So the acting performances were great. The issues that I had, as I mentioned, it felt more like an Incredible Hulk sequel than a Captain America movie because everything that Sam was dealing with had to do with Thunderbolt Ross and all of his drama and all his bullshit from the time of the Incredible Hulk. The villain was because of him, all of the conflicts that was going on was because of him. And I don't know, it was just it's weird to see his story take a backseat in a movie that's supposed to be about him.

15:51 And then on top of that, you're dealing with all the Incredible Hulk stuff. And Casey, like you said, it wrapped up a lot of stuff for for those characters in that story. But why did that have to be done in this particular movie? That I don't understand the whole thing with quote UN quote, Celestial Island, AKA TMX. They're just finally addressing TMX. And you know, it's been several years since all of this happened with the Eternals and all this stuff. You're, you're just now addressing this. Like how many, how many movies has come out since the Eternals? How many Marvel shows have come out since the Eternals where this was addressed? Like we saw a small snippet about it in I think it was She Hulk it.

16:39 Was on. It was on the front of someone's newspaper. Yeah, that's I think it was She Hulk. So again, going back to what Mike said, if you're going to reference is in She Hulk or maybe Anthony, I think it was you, why not have She Hulk in this? If I mean, if you go at all Incredible Hulk with the Red Hulk and Thunderbolt Ross and all the stuff and you're bringing in Betsy Ross in the camp, like why not just go all the way if that's the case? I thought they were going to bring, I thought they were going to have marker flow in there or, or Edward Norton. Somehow I, I just knew it. I just knew if you were going to make some kind of cameo. So I don't know, it was just trying to get on board with this story and and making it cap story. It just I don't know, it just felt like he was a guest star in his own movie, which is weird because he did have a you know, it's not like he was just relegated to the side. But I feel like most of the story that was being told didn't even have anything to do with him. Like he just happened to inherit all of this because he is the new Captain America.

17:48 But like, like you said, they could have it, it could have been the Hulk in this movie. They could have thrown, they could have brought the Eternals back for this. And I think it it kind of still would have had the same impact. I just feel like I expected a little bit more. OK, I, I have, I've been writing notes. I have, I have notes for the first time in a long time. I'm going to go, I'm going to go quickly. All right, So they did have a missed opportunity. There was a movie there. And I'm going to relate these two things. So the first thing is I understood what was going on with Yakim because if you remember, he lost his partner. They were flying those suits together, OK. Yep, you're right, You're right.

18:38 So that is a he, he understands. I'm going to say that's a that's a pain spot for him. Yeah. To to get someone, get to have someone get close to him like that who's doing the same thing. We know how soldiers are. This is a friend that he lost, and here's his kid who is doing the same thing and he's about to lose him too. He doesn't want to lose him. That's why he doesn't put him in danger. That was a missed opportunity because he didn't go back to that. They didn't refresh us on that. They didn't tell us that there was a lot of introspection he could have. Talked about forgot until you just mentioned it. Right. He could have talked about that and I and what three of these are related.

19:21 The other thing I was going to say the Serpent society. So Casey was saying, well, you know, I understood. So I wind up I understood why he was there and I'm not going to say it didn't make sense. It just didn't really fit to me because I think, if I had to guess, which is related to my third thing, they don't, I didn't think they really trusted Anthony Mackie to carry this movie on his own. Like I didn't think they thought they could make a Captain America movie with just him because it feels like maybe they were going to do a Serpent society thing because wasn't the original title Captain America the Serpent Society?

20:02 One of them was, yeah. Yeah, that that was that was going to be the thing. And I think they were like, well, you know, Anthony Mackie, Black, Captain America, I don't know, people going to be able to watch that. We're going to have to do something else. We have to do something different. They just didn't trust them, especially with the way the MCU movies has been going. I just don't think they trusted to do him and the Serpent Society movie which is why they went all out with with the Red Hawk. I don't think, I don't, I don't know. I don't think it's necessarily that they didn't trust. Him. They didn't trust him. But. I don't trust they didn't trust the idea of a Captain America movie in the SERP society and the way the political things is going now, they're like, we're not going to be, Especially when you look at what's been happening with the MCU movies and all this DEI talk and all this woke talk. They they're like, you know what? This is like, you know what, let's let's kind of back away from this.

21:02 Let's take a moment. Let's let's rewrite this whole thing and not put it all on him being the center of the movie. And that's sort of what it feels like. They're like it it was safe to go with what work with Falcon and Winter Soldier, give him a little bit of character development. And then let's throw the Leader. Let's throw in Betsy, let's throw in Thunderbolt Ross. And we got the Red Hulk and we got the theme from the Eternals that everybody hates. Let's put it out in this movie. And you know, he won't have to be by himself like he won't have to be the reason the movie fails. You understand what I'm saying. But clearly if you watch the movie, he could have done it. It could have been about him versus and I can also understand why they wouldn't want to do it because it would be too much like Falcon when a soldier because there you had what were they called?

21:57 The Flag Smashers. Flag Smashers. The Flag Smashers, if you do the Serpent Society, the people like it's, you're doing the Flag Smashers again, just calling the Serpent society. And see, that's the thing that was kind of bothering me because I feel like if you were going to do a Captain America movie and give him his own story, let's let's take Thunderbolt Ross and all this other stuff out of it. Red Hulk or whatever. I feel like they could have continued on with the Flag Smashers because the way that that story was being told, they could have dealt with the repercussions of it. And I think if they had written the story right, it would have it would have done well because.

22:39 It had elements that you could have pulled from the show, yeah. And not only that you got, you got the whole power broker thing with. Power Broker. You have, I mean, there's, there was a lot. You could have brought back helmet, You could have brought back Baron Zemo. You could have brought back Zemo. You had, you had stuff to. Went to the raft to go see Thunderbolt Ross at the end. You didn't go say hey to Zemo, He's at the raft. You could have brought back John Walker. You want to tie it into the Thunderbolts? They could. You could have had them trying to him trying to work together, you could have had him struggling with whether or not he wanted to take the serum. I don't I don't need to see John Walker in it like they already.

23:23 But I'm saying I, I, they had, they had so many things, they had an opportunity to pull so many things. And then, you know, you had the flag Smashers and you still could have thrown in the Serpent society. And they have a lot of really good characters in the Serpent Society. And it it it would have been, I mean, it probably would have been an action oriented movie. We probably would have problems with it. But I would have think I would have wanted to see that more. Like I would have rather have seen more of that. And if I'm going to see the Red Hulk and Betsy Ross and the Leader, then I wouldn't see Edward Norton as a Hulk, you know, because here now you had a continuity problem.

24:06 This was never know what I have over here where Bruce ain't never really mentioned any of these people. Any. There was never any reference to anything, right, You know, and, and we're. Supposed to think that. He he told Sam he wants him to bring back The Avengers. The Hulk is part of The Avengers. Right. And, and I'm looking, I'm looking at it and I'm thinking if he Bruce, I mean, it's just, it boggles my mind because Bruce has never referenced or said or we've never got any, anything having to do with that previous movie.

24:50 And if we did, was very, very small. Yeah, I was going to say they mentioned it and something I remember because I think we were all right. Oh. Yeah, it was very, it was a very small reference. I've. Been a She Hulk, but if all of this was very important to that character's development, I have it. It just doesn't feel like it fits with the Bruce that we've had in the in that we really know in the NCU, not that Gordon 1. Does that make sense? I think I think it really like if you're. Going to you might as well have bought Sam, Sam, what's his name back to be Thunderbolt Ross and we could have Erie banner.

25:30 You know, we we could have done anything the way this was going. But I think the fact that you're tying this Thunderbolt, Ross, and like, of course, you mentioned all the stuff that happened with Betsy, with Betty and everything that happened with the Hulk, and This is why his daughter's not talking to him and stuff. It's like, I don't know, I feel like that should have had more and more of an impact on his character development. Because here's the thing, after going back and watching The Incredible Hulk and sing everything that happens, seeing everything that went down and you think about this character, he let Bruce Banner get away.

26:10 He let he let Abomination become Abomination. I can't think. I don't know why I can't think of his name right now. Yes, Blotsky. He lets him become the Abomination. OK, then he has Stearns that he's been keeping captive ever since that time because of all this stuff. Then you come into the present MCU version of Thunderbolt Ross. He's the one that that gave out the Sokovia chords and split The Avengers. He's the one who didn't capture Black Widow. I mean, he's had all of these failures as a general. How the fuck do you get elected president? But.

26:53 Because you, because you're going after. I was gonna say, thinking about our own political climate is not really that hard to answer that question, but. He he was going after the guy that was president in Secret Invasion, so shit, I could have been president after him. Yeah, OK. Yeah, OK. Yeah. Oh, and and also Remember, Remember the leader, Doctor Stearns said. He was the one that kind of engineered helping him become president. Yeah, OK, that I did. And this is the this is the other thing I was going to say in in relation to Stearns, given what they did with his character, because his character was in The Incredible Hulk for only a brief time. Like he was really there kind of communicating off the scene. And then once he once we actually see his face and that are introduced to who he is, he's really only in a few scenes before he just disappears.

27:51 Like we never find out at, you know, at the end of the incredible Hulk, what happened to his character. And now, of course, here it is all these years later, he's coming up as the big bad in this movie. So I kind of sort of feel like maybe something similar what happened with Sidewinders character, because again, you take you have this person come in, he's the big bad only except he's not the big bad. He's working for the big bad. He gives you some pertinent inter information and then you just kind of walk off and leave him there. I feel like he's probably going to be more important. Maybe an Avenger, Secret Wars or whatever, whichever movie comes after this one. So I, I don't know, because I, I kind of felt the same way. I was like, OK, Giancarlo Esposito is in this. And then once he's in, I'm like, that's it. But.

28:51 But it's like. This because I hear y'all saying like they should have did more they should have did like what? I guess my thought is like what is your expectation? Because he he you know he tried to steal the the adamantium and they got it back and then he got caught and then Anthony Mackie went to talk to him at the little place and then after that he went to jail. So I'm like like because y'all like they didn't do there. Was a fight in between there? Too. It's not. Yeah, I think. What I'm saying what? What? What else was he supposed to do? I think it's not necessarily that we were expecting the character to do more is it's just the is Gian Carlo Esposito, You don't have him in there for like 5 minutes and then just be done. But they did and and that's not.

29:42 That can't be just it. Well, well, you. Get what you're saying? You, you are, you are actually Casey. You are exactly right. You're exactly right. What? What did we expect? Because they did. Yeah, he only filmed for like 3 days or something. Yeah, they, they literally brought him in at last minute to plug him in to, to plug him into movies for marketing. So our expectations really shouldn't have been that high for that. And I guess The thing is you, you, they build something up which is, is is really our fault. They build something up to make it look more than what it really is. Because you literally could have had anybody play that character and done the same exact thing and.

30:27 Would be they do want somebody that we recognize. They do want somebody. Who is the name? That you'd be like, oh, that's you know what I mean? You know who had more? You know who had more screen time than he did? Sam Sealsick's friend. He had more screen time than John Carl. Who did they put in that role? I. Don't know who that guy is. Nobody knows who that. Guy here. Where? Where? Oh. Yeah, nobody knows who that guy is. Nobody. And he had more screen time than John. Carl is busy. Yeah, you know. And then the the chick who? What was her name? The black. The. Black Widow. They knew that. No, not heard yet. The the, the one that's Italian. No, the the the, the Israeli one that they put in was going to be was going to be like a character who was a Mossad agent, but they switched it because of political concerns about being sympathetic to Israel.

31:20 So they made her a Black Widow agent instead of a Messiah agent. Yes. And I think her think her name was actually Mossad. Or a lot of like and I heard a lot of her a lot of her stuff got. Cut a lot of it, yeah, Because. Because they they were, they were afraid of like again. This is why well. The same reason why they chose Japan instead of China. Yes, because they want they want this movie to do good in China and they don't want to piss China off because that's one of their other than the US that's one of their biggest places to show movies. So they're like fuck that shit. We're not doing that. So, but this is the whole thing about them being I hate certain things about the world today because everybody is so afraid of being woke or feeding into DEI.

32:07 But it's like, do they they they're so afraid that they are walking on egg shells around issues that they should be stomping around. It's like the first Falcon Winter Soldier, Sam spoke his mind and and it was it related to the world today. He should have been doing the same thing in here, but they but they dialed it way back from where how he was before. It's like he's nowhere near as outspoken as he was. And he should have been like him and Isaiah. He should have been speaking out for Isaiah constantly, but he wasn't. It's like he didn't do anything he'd do anywhere near as much for Isaiah in this film as he did in the Falcon and The Winter Soldier. And I kind of have a problem with that. I think it's God.

32:48 I thought that was kind of fucked up. I'm like, yeah, I'm like, he wouldn't have. From what how they developed Sam and Isaiah's relationship, there's no shot that he wouldn't be trying to break him the fuck out of that prison because he knows what he went through. And Isaiah told him. He was crying to him saying I'm going to fucking die in here. Don't let me stay in here. Don't leave me in here. I'm going to die. I'm not going to make it. And it's like he's he's, he's a fucking super soldier saying this shit. And Sam just like I'm going to take care of it and gets that and and walks away. I don't see that. I just don't see that. But but to Casey's point, to Casey's point, she makes a really excellent point.

33:29 There's a, there is a lot of eye candy in this movie. There's some great special effects. There's some great fight scenes. Jean Carlos, Brazil's in it. He's amazing. I mean, there's some really good stuff in the movie. And you know, well, I talked about this early in the previous podcast. It's not that our expectations are, well, the expectations are are not necessarily high. We just need to manage them now because we it, it's cool to have fun movies like John Wick and you know, movies that you just want to go Fast and Furious just want to go have a good time, right?

34:11 Some of us, we want a little more than that. And the sort of what we kind of started expecting from the MCU movies as they ramped up that phase 1-2 and three, things were getting pretty serious. Things were really good. Everything was clicking and then we get into this new phase, this post end game, and everything is sort of back to the way it was prior to Iron Man 1, where it is great special effects or decent special effects, stories of blah, but the movies are fun and that's all that. That's kind of all that matters. Well, you can't start giving us things that matter and then turn around and throw popcorn flicks at us because we you need to help us manage our expectations. You know, that's like with the secret Evasion TV show. OK, the effects were good.

35:06 That's all we can say about it. Everything else about it was crap. But if you really just want to watch the TV show and waste time away, then it's great. You know if if, if, if you don't have the expectations. Wait, which? Which? Which TV show Secret? Evasion. Oh, but I still have a little bit in my. Mouth I've always had this conversation with with the person who I live with unrelated to by marriage. She absolutely loves the Fast and Furious movies, right? They're fun to me. I can't watch them again. I like making fun of them. I laugh because they're entertainment for entertainment purposes only. They're great. They're not going to be nominated for an Oscar. They're not masterpieces of work. They're fun movies.

35:50 I started We're spoiled and this what we've come to expect from MCU after end game. Things can only get better. Like my we we talked about it earlier, we're chasing the MCU hot. We're trying to get that. We're trying to catch that feeling again and we're not getting it. Same thing I felt about what if. If I step back and just look at this movie as like a fun summer blockbuster, You know what it It takes all the boxes. It really does. It takes all the boxes. It's fun. It's got great fight scenes. It's got some funny parts. It's got a little heart. Yeah. But I personally, yeah, a little bit more. Right.

36:32 Especially. Yeah, it's basically. To these characters because not only have we built on Sam Wilson's character in the movies, we had a whole show where we got to know his character more in depth know the type of person he is, know what he stands for and kind of going back to what Mike says I don't think that Sam Wilson in any iteration would have left Isaiah Bradley in prison while he went to go figure things out that just that didn't sit right with me, you know and, and. We're in the world where where, where Falcon. I mean with The Winter Soldier who was brainwashed to do stuff and.

37:13 He's running for Congress because he showed up in the movie. How? How, however, is it that hard to believe that Isaiah Bradley and these other people were brainwashed to do something they didn't intend to do? I mean, what, what world are we, what NCU world are we living in, right? You know, and, and the Secret Service doesn't have any weapons to deal with superpower people on hand, just in case. What world do we live in, guys? What world do we live in? Also, Jenny Ross, hold on. Jenny Ross 17 years ago had stuff that was fucking up the Incredible Hulk.

37:56 They, they don't have that time technology anymore. Yeah. Yeah, I, I also have, I also have a problem with what's her name? The, the her, his, his assistant actually finding out that something is wrong about how Isaiah was acting like figuring it out the same time that Joaquin was figuring it out. Because they made a point to show that Joaquin figured that shit out and she figured that shit out, but she couldn't. You're saying you're saying that she couldn't figure out a way to get I mean he almost she almost got him killed because the guard got hypnotized by the fucking song and shot the other 4 shooters like she he almost got fucking shot and it's like you couldn't figure out a way to get him get him out of there somewhere like not not in isolation because that's where he's been and just like you're going to fucking kill him faster because he's going to kill his fucking self.

38:50 It's like you didn't see that he didn't had no control. He didn't do any of that shit. Y'all could've put him somewhere else. It's like it's at that definitely the whole. The whole thing at the head of the president's, the president's security and you could make a call to the joint chief of staff. Anything, anyone. Leave that motherfucker out, please. Thank you. Yes, give him. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that has aggravated me. And it's like they had a whole nother movies. Like like I said, they had Seth Rollins playing the part that Giancarlo Esposito ended up playing and I guess they didn't. They're moving away from him or they didn't like how he perform portrayed it or it performed poorly in trials.

39:31 So they brought in New York and that whole thing just kind of screwed me up this time to fuck my head up. Then it's like, I just don't like her character. Like when like the, you know, Red Ruth, yeah, it's a root. I I just didn't like her character because I was just First off, she didn't, she's just, I don't know, She I like, I like the character. Hold on, Lila, the other black character agent. Taylor. Agent Taylor Agent Taylor, who is who ironically in the comics has a has a relationship with Sam. I I can tell because they kind of, they kind of hinted at that, but. It's like, I mean, go into that.

40:14 It's like was like what, what what been what would have been the harm of, of showing them to he agrees to what would have been the harm of delving in, of giving them like a little bit of hand holding and or have or like, you know, just just throw, throw it out there because. Yeah. Or just give a little bit of background, because it's like the way that they introduced her. Sam said something about he had somebody on the inside, he had a friend. And of course, when, when you see them talk to each other, you can tell that there was either something that went on between them or something that could go on between them, right. But we don't really get like, her character is so prominent compared to everybody else on Thunderbolt Ross's team. But we know nothing about her.

41:04 Like, you don't give us any kind of background about her you don't like. Ross obviously trusts and respects this woman, you know what I'm saying? And there seems to be a mutual respect between those two characters. Why not tell us a little bit more about that? You know, it again, it's just, I don't know. I, I just think I, I don't know. It's just those are the things that really bothered me about this film. Because 1 you generally get a little bit more character development, especially with some of these other because it seems like these smaller characters. Who you in his show?

41:53 Huh. He got developed in his. Show he did, but you got these other characters that you are putting in the forefront of this movie and you're not really giving us background on them. Like the whole thing with Ruth, she was born in Israel and she was a she was a she trained in the Red room. That's all y'all giving us. Like what do we need? What else? What? What else do? You need give me a reason to care about these characters I. Mean it's not about her knowing that she was in the Red Room. We know everything about Natasha. You you correlate to me. I correlated it with that. Oh OK. She's an assassin.

42:34 She do what she do her big one. OK, great. The girl he know at the White House, OK, they hinted at a relationship. Do we need to see the background and know whether or not they went on dates and slept together and I I don't need that. I don't need for me, this is just me though. We need all that to be able to enjoy it and and follow along with everything that's going on. I don't need the deep in depth background on where you grew up and who your Mama and daddy. I don't need that foot. I'm not saying that I need all of that, but if these are supposed to be, again, this is supposed to be a Captain America movie and they made this, Wait, they made this a Thunderbolt Ross movie? They made a movie about him and all the the consequences of his actions.

43:26 The Leader was a consequence of what he did in The Incredible Hulk. His whole motivation for everything, him lamenting over his lost relationship with his daughter and the things that he did wrong. And this everything was about Ross. So it's just for me, for these characters that are supposed to be connected to Sam. I feel like get. A little bit more. Getting that whole him with his daughter and that whole thing, it it it's sort of a way, 'cause like I said, even though they came from a different movie. So to know that from then to now they relationship is fucked up because of what he did to the whole back then that didn't take away from everything that Sam was going through to.

44:17 Me. But what what does that have to do with Sam? That's the thing. Take out. Take out everything OK Take everything that has to deal with Thunderbolt Ross in this film. Take it out. What are you left with? What are you left with? I. Don't know. I mean, I'm, I'm asking the question genuinely. If you take out all the Thunderbolt Ross stuff, you take out the antagonist who, whose whole goal is to bring Thunderbolt Ross down. If you take all of his shit out, what are you left with? OK, you left with TMN in the middle of the Indian Ocean and the country's trying to get to the adamantium.

45:03 You have them introducing adamantium into the, you know, into the MCU, and other than that, there's nothing else there. I mean, you, you, I, I understand what Casey's saying, but if you literally took, if you do the opposite, if you take Sam out of the movie, The movie doesn't really change that much. No it doesn't. It's the same movie. If you I mean. That's that's what I'm saying it. Yeah, if if you. Take Sam out of the movie You. You still have the majority of the film. Yeah. Because once you take out, once you take out Yaquin and you take out Joaquin, I'm sorry if you take out Joaquin and you take out.

45:50 Isaiah Bradley. Isaiah Bradley, you the majority of the film is about the origin of the Red Hulk, that that's basically what what you got. And Celestial Island, you could have stuck like you said, like I said, you could have stuck the Incredible Hulk in there and the movie would have been somewhat the same. You could have stuck any one of the Eternals in there to explain the whole thing about Tiamat and it wouldn't have changed much. It just. Shit, you could, you could, you could have put Ethan Hunt in this motherfucker and turn to a Mission Impossible movie. It's like basically it because because that's true.

46:30 It's they. This is why I mean there you couldn't while we were saying. This movie you could have stuck my Rambo in this movie, you could have stuck it just. It did not in the. Captain America movie, to me, it just didn't. I mean, that's not and and again, that's not to say that I didn't love it. I love like you say, I love the characters them. I love the action sequence. Like I said, one of my big, big concerns was that we weren't getting Bucky in this film and we actually got him in the film in a cameo and it kind of give gives us a little bit more about seeing what he might be up to in the lead up to Thunderbolts. But again, it it just didn't feel like a Captain America movie to me.

47:18 Yeah, and again, the case is point the movie like both of you are seeing, it's a fun movie. I I needed to manage my expectations. Them sitting there watching it like, oh, it's the Red Hook origin story. This is cool, OK, with a little bit of the Falcon and Winter Soldier in it, like just a little bit of it in there. And I, I guess, I guess more or less is like I said earlier and, and I don't want to keep saying it, I just expected a little bit more. If you had said this was the Red Hulk or you called it Thunderbolts origins, I'm like, cool, that's not what the movie is called.

48:02 It's called Captain America, brave new world, brave new world. You know, it's it's the whole I don't know. There there was another movie that did the same thing and I don't know, I I just wanted to I wanted more, I wanted more Sam less than about Ross. If if, if that makes sense. And I don't feel like to I'm I'm specifically talking to you, Casey. I just feel like I didn't get enough of Captain America. I wanted more Captain America. I didn't get enough Captain America. I got a whole lot of the leader and a whole lot of Thunderbolt Ross. I got a whole lot of the leader. Samuel Stern standing in front of a green screen, which is obviously reshoots.

48:45 Every time they said serpent society, they edited out society. And to say the serpent, they couldn't even say sidewinder. Like they didn't even go back in ADR that oh, he hired the serpent. No, the serpent society. It's obviously you cut out society, but you don't want to go back and make it to say it's sidewinder. I'm just. But you know what for for and and see, that's the thing for someone like me who I wouldn't know difference between the serpent or a serpent society, you know what I mean? So for somebody like me, I wouldn't, those details wouldn't. Yeah, that's, that's just me nitpicking, but literally, like, I, I think everything I, everything that I talked about, everything we're talking about is the, the Red Hole stuff is cool.

49:32 We cool with that. It's just that we wanted to see Sam Wilson's Captain America and they'd be his movie. I wanted to see him like saving the world and not cleaning up Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts bullshit. And that's basically what it was. He was cleaning up all the mistakes from Thunderbolt. Ross, like every all, all, all of the stuff that he did in his past was catching up to him. And Sam happened to be the one who had to kind of fix it, and that was it. Could have been Becky. It didn't have to be Sam.

50:12 It could have been anyone. Yeah, so, and, and you know, I, I get what you're saying, Casey, as far as the the details not mattering to you, especially as a non comic reader. But let's be honest, the MCU would not be as successful and as popular as it is if they weren't going, if they weren't like trying to. I, I won't even say a piece. But if you're if you're not trying to do what makes the comic book readers happy, because if you're just if you're just focusing on the people who've never read the comic books, then yeah, some of that, some of those details won't care. But you also wouldn't be grossing a billion dollars worldwide with most of these movies. Well, see, for me again, I have no never read a comic book. Never don't have any references for anything, even going all the way back to Iron Man with zero reference. I enjoy all the movies like some I've only seen twice and then there's some I've I've seen Iron Man 50 times. So you know, there are some.

51:32 And even still, even when I hear like comic book references and people say, oh, in the book it was this and that, that still means nothing to me. I know what happened in the movie, you know what I mean? And and then the same way they need to go there, but for The Walking Dead. They didn't follow the comics every and I never read those comics either. But we would always get, oh, they didn't do this in the comics. They didn't do this in. I'm enjoying what's being presented to me now and what I'm being presented, regardless of the source reference is entertaining to me as a non comic reader. Make me go back and read the comics. Possibly it could, maybe, but who's to say? But as a non comic reader right what I got. And, and, and I understand that because I'm not a comic, I'm not a comic book reader.

52:21 Either and like all the back story and the this should have been this or the what these you know, other that y'all Anthony and Mike know that oh this should have been this or you know without knowing none of that. The C the the CKC for for you, you make you bring up a good example to use, which is The Walking Dead. So they deviated a lot from the comic books. But even the people who read the comic books, who read the graphic novel will tell you that they kept the spirit of what he was doing. And he was out also involved in the show as well. But they kept the spirit of what the show was trying to do. They didn't have to deviate so far away from what the what it was about.

53:09 The same thing with Invincible. People who have read the graphic novel will tell you Invincible stayed true to what the comic is about. All we're saying is this isn't true to what we were expecting. Like this was literally a Red Hulk movie. It wasn't a Captain America movie. Even if you look at all the previous Captain America movies, the only one that was maybe you can say was a deviation was Civil War because that was like more like an evangelist movie. But all the movies that are Captain America movies are Captain America movies except this one. It didn't.

53:53 No, let me rephrase, it didn't feel like a Captain America movie. Like Steve Rogers was at the center of Civil War. It was the struggle between him and Tony and his struggle. The whole movie was apparent. The same thing with Winter Soldier. It was about him and Becky and and his struggle with that relationship. Here we got Sam, who is Captain America, but it's really not about anything evolving him. It's like Hanukkah say. It's really more about him reacting to what Thunderbolt Ross has been doing and the culmination of all his stuff that he's been doing.

54:34 And it's about him. He's the one we talk about how great he is. He's the one that got all of the development. And yes, you're right, Sam had a whole show, but not everyone watched the show the last time. A lot of people who see this movie, the last time they saw him was him getting the shield, and now they're going to see him as Captain America. Well, sort of Captain America sometimes, but it was mostly if you have watched The Incredible Hulk with Edward Norton, this movie will be your jam. Because this, if you, I was telling you, if you had watched that movie The day before you saw this movie, you'd be like, yeah, this is Part 2, definitely Part 2 and that.

55:16 And that's kind of always saying. So you don't necessarily need to have and, and I talked, we talked about this on other MCU shows. We talked about the details drive me and Mike nuts. It it they can. But we also understand that the details aren't for everybody. The details are for us, right? Details are not for for you. And that drives us nuts. Yeah, I think we had a conversation. We had a conversation about this, talking about the mainstream fans and then the the kind of over and beyond fans. It's like. And I remember saying that I was. I wasn't as worried about this movie than I am Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts.

55:57 Yeah. You know, and I fully expect this movie to do fine in the box office because it says it's Captain America and this guy Harrison Ford in it. You cannot go wrong with that. People are going to watch this. Movie worldwide so. Yeah, people are going to go watch it. It's just that people like me and Mike, we're going to be a little bit bothered by some of this stuff that's going on. And that's our fault. Comic book that references the Brave New World or no? Yes, it's a whole series. OK. But it's not this, it's. There is the brave, brave Captain America. Brave New World exists. There is a comic. OK.

56:39 OK, it's called Brave New World. Yes, it's called the. Movie is called brave new World. The comic series is Brave World, but they're not the same. It's. Not the same. And it's like. 'Cause the red Hulk the red Hulk is a whole series of books in the incredible Hulk in the. Incredible Hulk? Really. More technically, more Thunderbolts. Than Thunderbolts. But yeah, but because basically becomes a Red Hulk too. I mean, it's, it's all, all that stuff. This is why Hanukkah gives me gives me grief every time someone mentions Taskmaster. It's because I get, I pay attention to things and when they're not that way, this that's my that's my ADHD kicking Gambian like that's not right, that's not right, that's not right, that's not right and it gets me. But OK, I'm this was a fun movie like them. Like the, the flying battle scene was good. I'm glad that Joaquin didn't get the war machine treatment and like, lose and like become a quadriplegic because I was afraid that was going to happen.

57:44 I was afraid he was going to die. Because they cut out a whole funeral scene that they had in in that. This was one of the behind the scenes pics they had. They had a whole funeral scene that we didn't see. So they cut that out, 'cause I thought Joaquin was dead, I thought. I would have been pissed if if big big not only because one I feel like he didn't have enough time in this movie either. Again, this is Captain America and you know the new Falcon supposed to be a big part of this movie. I feel like he didn't get enough time. But one of the other things that I think kind of bothers me and this goes back to a conversation that we've all we've always had in in regards to the MCU shows. We, you know, Anthony had this thing where he was saying that the people who watch the movies are not necessarily going to watch the shows and vice versa.

58:44 And unfortunately with this film, it kind of proves that you are. Let me let me say you don't have to, but if you want the information kind of like I'm saying, I like that. I like character development. I like seeing where a character starts and where they come from. If you go into this movie and you've never seen Falcon in The Winter Soldier, you don't know who the fuck Joaquin is. You don't know why he's got the mantle of the Falcon. You know there there are certain things about these characters that you just aren't not gonna know because you didn't watch the show. Anybody who watched the movies, you're not expecting Bucky to show up for Sam and for them to have the the conversation that they have and hug it out and Bucky's last words being I love you, bro.

59:39 If you just watch the films and didn't watch Falcon in The Winter Soldier, you have no idea that that relationship is even a relationship now. You know, you have no idea how close they are. And it's just, I guess that's just one of the things that kind of bothers me again, because everything was focused on Thunderbolt Ross. And I just don't feel like there was enough of Sam's story in there for it to be considered a Captain America movie. Yes, the movie was fun. Yes, Anthony Mackie was phenomenal. And I'm not complaining about the Red Hulk because Harrison Ford, again, gave a great performance. But like you said, it was an Incredible Hulk sequel. It was a Red Hulk origin story.

1:00:24 I don't feel like it was a Captain America movie. In the sense of the Captain America movies we've gotten before. Well, well, to be fair, Hanukkah, to be fair, you, you you really could just not have watched the show. Because if you saw the Falcon get this shield and now he's Captain America, well, then someone had to become the Falcon. And here's a new little kid on the block. Who's the Falcon now? And he, and if you remember, he does have an issue with having lots of friends who did the same thing he did and he's being overly protective of him for those reasons. So it does kind of make sense.

1:01:10 You don't need to know who he was or how they became friends because you just got his replacement and he's got to teach them how to be the Falcon now. I got to be honest, I forgot that he that his that his, that he had someone who who flew with him die. Like I completely forgot that. Part yeah, I forgot about it too. Went on to Anthony mentioned it earlier. Yeah, but if you only watch, if, if you focus on the movies and you not watch the show, you would remember, you know, that would be more something that you remember than than the now. I can't explain the Bucky thing because I don't know. Didn't Bucky talk to him at the end of the movie about it? He gave you the show, you know?

1:01:50 Yeah. But they it they were still not on the level. You know, they weren't tight like he would come visit him to check up on him and see how. He's doing. But it is kind of believable because time has passed and he could have been there with him, helping him learn how someone had to teach him how to throw the shield. You know, someone had to work with him on on that stuff, training him how to fight. You know, Isaiah Bradley didn't. Maybe I was. That might throw some people off. Who the fuck is Isaiah Bradley? They gave you a little bit, you know, they gave you a little bit of information. You know who Isaiah Bradley was? He was Captain America at some point. You know he just.

1:02:30 Never had any for him. They, they give you, they give you enough. And, and that's what I said before about the TV shows. Not necessarily. They're going to have to make it to where you can watch the movies, still have the information, and not watch TV shows. My gripe with them is not that. My gripe with them is that this movie wasn't really a Captain America movie. It was. It was. It was a sequel to The Incredible Hulk. Yeah, I think, I think that Bucky was just it. Was a good sequel to The Incredible Hulk. Actually, it was actually a really good sequel to The Incredible Hulk. I just think that I think that Bucky was checking on him secretly to to see how his sister was doing, you know, to keep that going. But if he if he didn't watch Falcon The Winter Soldier, you're not going to get that joke. And.

1:03:16 And now I'm going to have questions about, so is this before or after Thunderbolts? Because when I'm watching Thunderbolts, he can't be running for Senate and and you're not running for officer. Well, so, so if you, if you look at the scene in Captain America, he says something about being a would be congressman. So he's he's at this point, he's stomping, he's campaigning. If you look at the most recent trailer for the Thunderbolts that they released on Super Bowl Sunday, the trailer starts out with them being in a congressional hearing with Val speaking to Congress.

1:03:59 Bucky is there in the audience in his suit and tie with his American pen. So I think he starts out the Thunderbolts in this position, whether he's already been elected or whether he's still campaigning. And then something probably happens to pull him back into, as we see kind of Winter Soldier and then him having to go form this team with the others. But I thought it was I, we mentioned this earlier, we were talking about What if. I thought it was very interesting because last season of What If there was an episode where Bucky was a senator and I was like, how in the world would that even work?

1:04:44 And then now we see he's he's campaigning for Congress. So, you know, I think one of the things about this film that that it, that it does reflect, and I think Anthony, you may have mentioned this earlier. You know, you think about a character like Bucky as The Winter Soldier. Like this is someone who is internationally known as an assassin, a controlled assassin. Yes, he was brainwashed. He was being controlled. He, he had no control over the things that he did as The Winter Soldier. We know from Falcon in The Winter Soldier that he was pardoned and apparently is now running for Congress.

1:05:26 OK. This is a person who obviously his his crimes are not hindering him in any sort of way. Going back to the whole thing with Isaiah Bradley, you know, this is a man who never committed a crime but served 30 years in prison for trying to save the lives of other super soldiers. You know, his his brothers in arms and you see how they treated him like it was obvious. And even even from watching the film, the moment that he picked up the gun and shot at the president, the way that his eyes were, you could tell this was a man who was not in control.

1:06:09 He he very much looked like he was looking into Dead Space. But of course, he didn't get that benefit of the doubt because of who he shot at and because of the situation and all the other stuff that happened. And I thought about that one scene in Falcon in The Winter Soldier, right after they left Isaiah's house. Bucky and Sam were in the street, and they were arguing, and the police came up and they started kind of berating Sam, like, oh, is everything OK? What are you doing? Let me see your ID. And Sam was like I don't hate ID Like what? Am I doing? Yes, Sir. Is he Sir? Is he bothering? You Yeah, right. And Bucky is like, excuse me, do you not know who he is? Like, it it it's it is one of those things where obviously race comes into play.

1:06:57 You know what I'm saying? Like Bucky white guy in that situation, the police didn't even think about, oh, this is The Winter Soldier. This is this is, you know, James Bond, He's he's The Winter Soldier. He's hardened. He's this that and the other in in Captain America. But he's running for Congress, you know, but you got Sam the one being questioned. And it wasn't until the guy was like, yo, that's the Falcon. He's like, oh, Mr. Wilson, I'm so sorry, Sir, blah, blah, blah, that, you know, that whole thing. And then in in the movie with Isaiah Bradley, you know, they're putting him in maximum security because of all this stuff. And, you know, even the way that the the the newscast was talking about him talking about, yeah, you know, he was honored a few years ago for being the first Captain America and now blah, blah.

1:07:54 Yeah. I think that that part was part of Captain America story because it is something that we see reflected in both the show and the movie. But yeah, anyway, OK, so let's do this because we've talked. Yeah, I'm, I'm avoiding, I'm avoiding that soapbox I had already, but I'm I'm gonna, I'm not gonna get on. It Why are you not gonna get on it? I'm not gonna get on it, OK. There was, there was so many. There was so many. It was so there are so many subtext things in this movie that, you know, I I appreciate it. But it's old now. Yeah, it's old. It's tired.

1:08:35 You know, we, we have, we have some politicians who have been convicted awaiting sentence and and they're our leaders of the free world. Yeah, yeah. That's and that's real life. That's. Not And that's real. That's real life. So I can't even be mad that Bucky in the office. Yeah, I really. I really can't, you know. I mean and I'm I? Actually got a pardon and but but the the thing that the thing that you bring up about the difference between Bucky and and Isaiah Bradley is obvious to us. We we get the we get the sub context is is is it going to matter though? Like is anyone else going to be paying attention to that? More people are up in arms about some, a lot of us are afraid to criticize this movie because of a black man being Captain America.

1:09:34 And, and this is becoming an issue now where where it's it's difficult to to be critical of, of something like that because then you're critical of it because it's a black man being Captain America. So I applaud all the, the content creators and the not the critics because they, they, they trash every movie. But there are a lot of content queries who are going on a limb and they're trashing this movie and they're putting themselves out there because the backlash is going to be where you only like, you only dislike it because it has a black man playing Captain America where that's really not the case. I mean, there's some legitimate things that are wrong with the movie, but there are also some things that are really good about the movie.

1:10:24 And Casey is a perfect example of you literally can go into this movie and walk out and be like, man, that was a great movie. And I understand because like I said, if it was Red Hulk, you know, Incredible Hulk 2, Red Hulk, I'm like, this movie is awesome. It's great, it's perfect, but it's not, it's Captain America. So yeah, people are going to trash it because it's it's not really a Captain America movie. And then they're going to, I mentioned that someone somewhere made the decision to change the entire movie because they probably felt like, yeah, no, people aren't going to really buy into this black man being Captain America. Or they didn't believe Sam Anthony Mackie could could literally carry a movie in Harrison Ford had an interview where someone asked him about, you know, is it cool being a movie where a black man, he's a black Captain America. He's like, no, he's just Captain America. He's just Captain America, yeah.

1:11:25 He's literally just Captain America, and you would hope that everyone would watch it like that, that everyone would watch it through that lens. But remember, that was a that was a thing in Falcon and The Winter Soldier too, you know, the little kid calling the Black Falcon, He was like, it's just Falcon. My dad says it's Black Falcon. And at the end, when he was Captain America, the guy was like, yeah, that's the black Captain America. And. It would make. Captain America. And what makes Anthony Mackie's performance in this movie so good? The part, his part is written so well in that he's not questioning whether or not he should be Captain America because he's black. He's questioning whether he's good enough, whether he can measure up to what Steve Rogers was, if the if he can reach the idea, if he could replace him and be Captain America. That's what he struggled, not because he's black. And and that resonates with me.

1:12:21 Like don't always assume that I have to be the black person that does it. So the black person, why can't I just be hoping to be good at it, to be good at what I'm doing? And that's that's why I thought his character so well written this movie. That's why I wanted more of him. I would have been OK with the continuation of the Falcon Winter Soldier in movie form. People were like how? We don't want to see Cap, we don't want to see Falcon. I do I. Do yeah. I do I that's what I want to see. I want to see his journey in becoming the true Captain America. You know everyone's Captain America, not just some people's Captain America.

1:13:04 I'm sorry, I'm putting my soapbox away. No, but I mean, you make you make some very yeah, you make some very valid points. I mean, Falcon and The Winter Soldier to this day remains one of my top Disney Plus shows, you know, and it's because of the, the, the growth that we saw from Sam Wilson, Sam Wilson's character. And again, also kind of, you know, the relationship between him and Bucky and how that developed. But again, a, a continuation of that story with the Flag Smashers or not even the Flag Smashers because we saw what happened to them at the end of the series.

1:13:46 But what happens after that? I think the timeline of this particular Captain America movie, I think it takes place two years after the end of Falcon and The Winter Soldier. Because when the, when the news report was talking about Isaiah Bradley, they said something about how two years ago it was made known, blah, blah, blah, that he, you know, government experimented on him. So two years after what happened with the Flag Smashers, like what is that world like now? What happened with the, what do they call it, the reclamation project or the people who came back from the blip and all the people were being displaced and those conflicts like those are still real things that have not been properly addressed.

1:14:32 And I think we talked about that with the Eternals too. It's like 5 years. People disappeared and when they came back, everything was different. Nobody has talked about that. And I think for me with these with these Marvel films, one of the issues that I do have and I know we talk about continuity, we talk about how the stories connect and everything are granted, everything doesn't always have to connect. We get that The Avengers are The Avengers, but they also have very separate lives when they're not avenging. They have different things that they have to do. And then also, everybody can't be in the same place at the same time.

1:15:13 There are other parts kind of like what Miss Marvel said when they were like, well, where were you and all this stuff? She was like, other parts of the universe don't have The Avengers, so I have to be elsewhere. But something like the stuff that happens, like you said, the stuff that happens with the Red Hulk, You don't think Bruce Banner would have been interested in being like, oh, let me go see if I can help this, you know, help with this because not too many things can defeat a Red Hulk. You know, the whole thing with TMA being in the middle of the Indian Ocean, you think Captain America is the only person who's going to come and deal with that? And this is how many years after the fact?

1:15:55 Like, I, I don't know, I just have a problem with the, the fact that y'all can bring all of The Avengers together or all of the superheroes together for these little bitty things, but when it comes to these huge things, it's like where is everybody at? So I, I don't know, it's just, I don't want to keep talking about this stuff because it makes it sound like we didn't like the movie. And that's not what we're saying at all. Like we actually liked the movie. I just think that it should have been more about Sam than about Ross, right? Because like you said, he gave an amazing performance. Like I was kind of worried that with them making a big Captain America movie, I was kind of scared that they were going to take some of the some of the humor and some of the sass out of Sam, you know, make him a more serious Captain America. And that's that's not what I want because that's not what I expect from Sam Wilson.

1:17:00 So the fact that the first scene where he comes in and the guy is like, yeah, we need the stealth mode. He was like stealth, oh, you must be new. I said, OK, we're getting the same. Sam when he did the superhero landing and stood up and he was like, wait for it. And then the, you know, the after effects came and he started fighting. I was like, OK, we're getting Sam Wilson. Like the real Sam Wilson and the way he was throughout the movie, he was serious when he needed to be. He was comical when he needed to be. He was a smart ass when he needed to be. He was naive in certain places, but I felt like that was also where he needed to be because you can't have somebody who's just all of a sudden you know, everything that's going on.

1:17:45 Especially as we said, Sam is not a super soldier. He doesn't have the enhanced anything. So as a human, yeah, he might mate a error of judgment or two and then have to course correct. And we see that in this in this movie, when he's when he's finally dealing with Sterns, like this is a moment where you realize, OK, your smart mouth ain't gonna get you out of this. This man is really smart. And this man is really manipulating some shit to do some serious damage. And when Sam gets serious and and figures that out and and goes to try to fix things like this is Sam Wilson. This is more of what I wanted in the film. You know, the, the flying stunts, that battle scene with the Japanese warships and everything that was great. That was amazing.

1:18:38 I, I wanted, I just wanted more of that. So, yeah, I, I mean, it's so like you said, I'm, I, I actually feel like I hate how I said I felt about the movie, but that's honestly how I feel. I enjoyed it. I had fun. It was a great movie, but it's just like, I don't know, I want, I want to say that it's a good movie or it's up and I can't say either one. Yeah, I really, I can say it's a good movie, but I can't say it's like a great movie. It's like, I feel like Infinity War and in games spoiled the fuck out of us 'cause we're 'cause everybody's expect, everybody's expecting that level of memorable, memorable performances and excitement.

1:19:28 And they're they're expecting that level now. And that's hard. That's fucking hard as hell to maintain that. So it's like we forgot that for every movie like that, we have movies like Ant Man, movies like like the first Thor in Thor Dark World. It's like we have movies that but. There's nothing wrong with the first Thor movie. I'm saying but, but I'm saying they're not like they're not like in game, in game level. You can't tell me that that that the first story is in game level. No, I mean, but not, let's be honest, none of. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying it's not at that level. I'm just saying. That, yeah, but not, I don't think any of the films before that were that level. Right, but we but we're expecting that. We're expecting that or like Guardians of the Galaxy level, like every time out.

1:20:20 You see what I'm saying is like that's really hard to do and maintain. It's like you'd have you have to really like catch lightning in the bottle to get to where that phase of the of the MCU was. It's like they were having hit after hit after hit. They were like, I mean, they didn't really miss except for except for things that people really didn't care for, like or they had a problem with how things were portrayed, like Captain Marvel. It's like Captain Marvel wasn't, it wasn't a bad movie. It's just like this movie, in my opinion, it's just like, yeah, I kind of have to take it for what it is. And you have to build something from a certain level.

1:21:01 You can't just expect it to be jumped out the park like that. So you have to have things that build up to something. And people have been spoiled in the MCU. Yeah, I got you. So Michelle has just joined us. Hi, Michelle. So we've been discussing Captain America for a while. Let's get your take on the movie. What? What did you think about Captain America, Brave New World? I really wanted it to do really, really well. I did. It's just missing a lot of things. I can't even quite put my finger on what it's missing. But when I close my eyes and think about what I got to do after the movie, that ain't great. And I did that a couple of times, OK. And I don't know if it was our movie theater or if it was meant for.

1:21:57 Was it dark for you guys? Did you just talk about that? It was kind of dark, but it could have been. I don't need to see it again. It was dark like Rogue One dark when we first saw. Oh no, no, that had to have been your theater. Because. It it wasn't that dark, but it, it just like it wasn't bright, it it wasn't bright at all. So that could lead to it, but it was just missing some components and I really wanted it to focus more on Sam than the dad general. OK, so so you, you basically feel the same way that we the, the majority of us, I think Casey, Casey is the exception.

1:22:41 We were all like it felt. It felt like an Incredible Hulk sequel instead of a Captain America. Right, right. It did. And then when we left the movies, I thought, you know what, if they didn't ever do the show on Disney Plus, they could have turned the show into a movie and that would have been it. And becoming Captain America. And I think that would have been a better movie. And then you can go into. This movie, right it it would have been kind of like an origin story like. Right for him like. The First Avenger. Right, because he did pull the same components out of the TV show of the struggling. Is he worthy? Is he? You know, you know, I was about to say something that didn't say, you know, not that he's not ADI higher. Like, you know, he was just trying to, you know, yeah, figure out if he should be Cap America. That should have been the TV series, should have been the movie.

1:23:30 You think what a lot of NCU fans are thinking it's like, I mean, they thought that from from the end of end game they're like, oh God, why? Why the black guy? But he's right there and that and that their opinion still holds to this day of that. And it's like through Falcon and Winter Soldier, they're like, oh, this is so fucking woke. Oh my God, can I be but. See, Bucky wouldn't be a great fit for captain. Right now and. Because you're. Right though even though Bucky was not in control of the things he did as The Winter Soldier, he was still The Winter Soldier. And one thing about the whole Captain America mantle is Steve Rogers was for the most part, pure at heart. He had a very clear sense of what was right and what was wrong.

1:24:16 And he went with that no matter who it pissed off. Because even though he started out, you know, when he came back, he was he was a SHIELD soldier. He was like, yeah, SHIELD is doing this, SHIELD is doing that. But when when Tony started pointing out, hey, so yeah, this is what SHIELD is doing behind the scenes. They're trying to create weapons and they're doing this thing was like, I'm not about to be a part of this. And Sam, I feel like is the same way. Sam is being has a very clear sense of right and wrong and him being a black man, he understands what's fair and what's not and how the world is in balanced in that way. I think that makes him like a perfect. Candidate Sam has always been the perfect fit for. Yeah, yeah.

1:25:04 However, they just. I just wanted it to. To just do well. And it just, it was just missing. But a lot of their movies lately has been missing things. Yeah. So, yeah. But I mean, like I said, we, we've been we've been talking mostly about the the hits or misses with this. And, and a lot of what we've been saying is about the fact that it focused a lot on Thunderbolt Ross and hit the the consequences of his past actions and how Sam is having to come in and clean it up. Right, His relationship with his daughter and, you know, trying to change and convincing people of changing while he's doing some bad stuff. Right, because you can't tell people that you've changed, but you still got Sterns locked up.

1:25:50 OK, So I think we pretty much have have said what we didn't I won't say didn't like about the film, just the things that we felt were kind of lacking as far as it being a Captain America film and not an Incredible Hulk sequel. But what was your favorite scene in the movie? Like what just made you happy? What made you smile? I know y'all already know what mine was so it's. Probably the same as mine, but yeah it was lucky. And any reference to their relationship, 'cause even at the end of fighting, when he said, man, I should have listened to Bucky, I should have took the cigarette like that.

1:26:35 Their relationship, their chemistry is fantastic. Yes, I, I, I love that part 'cause like when he was sitting there watching Joaquin in surgery and you hear the steps come, come behind. Now I'm the, I'm the person. I'm so into the movie. I'm not even thinking who this could, who this could be. So when he says this is a private room and there's no response, and then they do that angle where you see Sam and then it comes forward and you see Bucky. When I say my whole theater cheered, we were all like, I was like, I don't care if he's in here for two seconds. The fact that I see them on screen together again, that made my whole night.

1:27:16 I was like, the rest of this movie could suck and I would be fine because I got to see Bucky and Sam on screen together. It was, it was amazing. I loved it. Yeah, just because I really like his character and I like the fact that he's getting another run. I really loved everything that Carl Lumley would that Isaiah was in like I really did because especially like in in the gym when they when they were doing training, that was awesome. It's like, and while he was like, who is this? And he and he did the cap punching bag off the chain thing. He was like, oh, and I what was he? Calling him old timer or.

1:28:00 OG. He called him OG, but he called him something else. And I was looking at him like, dude, this is the wrong thing to say to the wrong person. But I loved it that that kind of built their rapport because again, you see Sam and Joaquin and you see just the kind of banter that they have and the fact that they brought Isaiah into that and they kind of formed this little trio of them. I love that. I was like, see, that's we could have dealt with more of that. Like they could have had another, they could have had another conflict with Isaiah Bradley and the mind control thing, and they could have kept that and it would have been, you know, a continuation of Falcon and The Winter Soldier. But I I, yeah, I do love that, that friendship. It it.

1:28:50 Wasn't my favorite scene but at the end when he caught when Sam called him a grumpy old man and he was like say it again. And Sam was like, he was like, ha, ha, ha. I got you. I got you, Yeah. I love him even though we saw it in the trailers. My favorite scene will always be when the guy's like you going to go stealth mode? He's like, you must be new. You must be new. Must be new. And he goes down and and he lands. Wait for it. Yeah, that. That yeah, I love. I love the I love they showed like the Wakanda, like the vibe, the vibranium effect in his suit where everybody was like air, 'cause everybody saw the saw where he landed and were like, oh, you should have broken his leg. No, no, no, no, I'm like, what the fuck are the SUS made of vibranium?

1:29:39 Like it's, it absorbs every it absorbs shock that it absorbs like impact. That's this whole thing. And then when he when he did like the, the, the aura coming like like when he slammed it down and the purple came out and like knocked everybody out like like black Panthers. And I was like, see, I, I, I was half expecting to see Shuri in this too. Like like when, like when, when he when he messed up his suit or like this or if I were to seen IO or somebody come and be like you need to stop, stop destroying the fucking suit. I thought we would have seen something towards the end because Joaquin asked Sam. He was like, you know, the suit's been destroyed.

1:30:21 Maybe you can call in a favor gets, you know, get the Wakandas to do another suit. I was like, that wasn't Sam, that was Bucky. They did the favor for Bucky. So no, Sam is not the one with the connections to Wakanda. That's Bucky. Right. But yeah, that that would. But he say you, you want to you, you want to ask the Wakandas for a hookup. Right. That's the most Miami thing ever. True. Yeah. Casey, since you got kicked off and are coming back, we're talking about our favorite scenes from the movie. What was your favorite? Probably my favorite was when he was fighting and his suit like the vibranium turned purple. That's what I just said.

1:31:08 But I'm mad he didn't do it more than once because I was waiting for that again like he was fighting. He did. It twice he should have. Done it more with that one wing. Yes. But I was like, I kept waiting for him to use it because like that's I like that. But oh, Speaking of which, I'm tired of Red Wing being disrespected in this one. You're getting that one, but two of them get destroyed. Yeah, I'm going to stop disrespect the Red Wing. They need to be a little more indestructible. Well, this. Maybe they'll be made of adamantium next time. Yeah, yeah.

1:31:52 OK. So since you brought adamantium up, how are we feeling about the way that they are introducing adamantium into the MCU it? Sucks because adamantium is supposed to be rare and. Well, I mean a whole. So let's here's a whole man coming out of the planet. No, that is a lot of adamantium and, and, and Japan was able to refine it, which means they're going to be able to refine it more. And you know, I'm not saying it's taken away from the value of the vibranium because vibranium is still vibranium, but I'm just saying adamantium is supposed to be rare in the Marvel.

1:32:34 Well, I think. But this is that's a lot of adamantium. Well. Are we sure that the whole thing is made of adamantium? Yes. OK. Yes, Oh, I think, I think, I think that they that they were saying that they were mining it, which means that it's not like the whole finger like the like for example, the hand coming out the whole finger is not adamantium. They actually have to they actually have to drill into it to get to the adamantium. So the whole the whole thing's not animate. They actually have to. There may not. Be a a lot of it I. Just don't like I was introduced though. Like the bone like like like like for lack of a better word. The bones of the hand are adamantium, but like the outside. Skeleton or or whatever.

1:33:15 OK, right. Or the marrow I just don't like. I was introduced because you kind of threw shade at the Wacom. Yeah, I heard that too. Like yeah, this. Is better than vibrating. Excuse me, hump the brakes, right? And you know they keep it all to themselves. But is Mark fucking land? Yeah. I don't have. I don't have to share. Yeah, it's like in the way the way Ross said that shit. I was like, then we have to wait, have a or what kind of third world country like hoarding that or something like that. Yeah, I was like, hold on, like I would like. You have to remember they still don't know the true, the true state of Wakanda.

1:33:57 Like they don't know what Wakanda really looks like and about the technological advances or anything. They still like if they were to go to Wakanda right now, they will still see just the homesteads and the farms. And so, so as far as they're concerned, yes, Wakanda is a third world country and. Well, that didn't that part didn't bother me. It was the part that you just saying like we supposed to just give you all of our material. I'm sorry that we're forting it. Yeah, we are. Yeah, because y'all have already proven that y'all can't be trusted with shit. I mean. Thank you. Right. Yeah, so. OK, the French are back at it again. These motherfuckers from what come from being the what kind of forever trying to rob, trying to steal vibranium and getting handled to coming over here trying to trying to take advantage of all the fucking adamanium too. I'm like why why why the French company here causing all this shit?

1:34:50 Well, at least we didn't see Battrock this time. That's like a Battrock over there, probably kicking the finger trying to trying to bite it. Now he should be dead. He I think, 'cause Sharon killed him in in Falcon in The Winter Soldier, so he shouldn't. Be dead. How about stays dead in the comics? Please He. Doesn't see a box. Yes, we did see a body. We saw him lying on the ground. Now we didn't see him get taken away. We saw him besides me here's body besides. Me here's body too. Well, you know, but that's what happens when you're being duplicated by a scroll. OK, OK, I'm trying to think other favorite moments. Besides Bucky, of course.

1:35:39 I love, I love the transformation of into the red hole because I thought I thought they did that. I loved it. I love, I love, I love how they explained how he got the radiation into a system that I was like that. But I was thinking I was I was thinking like really? You didn't think that you it. That's what I was thinking. I was like, this is a man that you have been keeping captive and you really went to him thinking that he was going to help you out and there weren't going to be any consequences. Like again, I'm I'm wondering how this man got chosen president like, and I know he was. He was desperate and he was dying. Yeah, and he convinced him that if you help me when I become president, yeah, I will this.

1:36:27 Is basically Aladdin. It's like he he was the genie. He's like he's probably probably singing, singing to Mr. Mr. General Rod, Sir, I'll feel your heart right now. I'm like, and then and then he was like, he was like, I'm going to free Samuel Sterns anytime. It's like I can't free you. He's like, you know, this is basically this is basically a Latin. It was like, damn well, I mean, why did why did he trust him? I'm like you say, oh, here, these will heal your heart. Just keep taking those, but don't take too many. And I'm like, soon as he takes too many. And and of course, he probably he orchestrated the reporters to ask him the questions to get him riled up. And then next thing you know, here he is. And I and I was like when he when his hand hit, hit the ground and burned the carpet.

1:37:18 I was like, oh. Yeah, I was like, oh, it's about to be dangerous. And I love the fact that even while he was trying to fight him, Sam is trying to talk him down. He was like, Oh well, that damn. Yeah, 'cause he's still Sam. It's like, I mean, he, he could, he could talk, he could talk down the gamma, gamma rage, Godzilla hope, but he can't talk down the red hope. So. Oh. My God, I. Forgot about that. And what? If yeah. But yeah, I'm so I'm I'm gonna impress that I think Sam is probably 1 most impressive impressive superheroes from living period because he should have been red hoax should have decimated him. There's no.

1:38:02 I think if he didn't have that vibranium suit, he would have been dead. That vibranium suit helped him a lot because it I think it absorbed a lot of the blows. Yeah, that fight, that fight was crazy. I was just like, how are you still like, oh God, like you should be deader than Dickens. Like you should be like a a smear. Well, well, well, you know, what we really know about the Hulk is Ross is still there. So on some level he didn't really want to kill him. Ross, you know, he, he, he was just. Ross never liked him. He he locked him up in a raft and shit. So he. Yeah, but I don't. That wasn't necessarily because he didn't like them. That was because he broke the law or he broke, you know, the Accords.

1:38:48 So but I, I think also with Ross, it wasn't also it, it wasn't just about the fact that he didn't want to hurt him. I think he was just so upset because once you look, once he looked in the mirror and he saw what he had become, it's kind of like all of your mistakes, all of your past mistakes are right there looking at you in the mirror. And now you understand what Bruce went through all those years ago when he had the same thing happened to him. And you, you went on a manhunt from him for him. You tried to kill him. You chased him across borders and all this other stuff. And like, you got to think at some, at some point in his head, he's thinking back to what Betty said is like, he can't control this.

1:39:40 You did this to him because technically speaking, he did kind of, sort of create. Spark. So it's like just dealing with all of that. I I'm sure it was probably making him upset as well. This is why I'm surprised we didn't see Bruce C Banner in this again because we already have him figuring out how to become smart Hulk where he could control his thing. I'm surprised you didn't see him showing up at the Raft saying hey Ross, need some help and then. Because in the because in the comic books, the Red Hulk actually can talk, if I'm not, if I'm not mistaken, like he actually has control over himself to a degree where he can actually still be General Ross and lead the team.

1:40:26 And like, you know, so he's so he's now he really needs to learn that. So who better to teach him then Bruce? Yeah, I'm sorry, Bruce. Bruce might still hold a grudge. I would probably but. Then you know. No, he, he, you got to send, you got to send Jennifer because you know she ultimately is in control. With yeah, but yeah. But he's not a woman, so he can't really. He's not, you know. That was very sexist it. Was it was said in the series don't get, don't, don't come for me? No, said in the series.

1:41:07 Don't, don't, don't. I didn't watch the series. You know what? We're not gonna. We're not getting into that conversation. No, we are not getting into that. We haven't done she OK, have we? No, we haven't. Ready, I'm I'm fucking ready. No, no, but I I think I think that this would be a that would have been a perfect opportunity to either to do have someone come in even to have because shout out to Eric boss and new rock stars. There was a deleted scene where they introduced Amadeus Cho where he was supposed to be the friend that the army guy had to see what was in those pills. He was, he was supposed to be the friend, so that could indict, do something as choke.

1:41:52 The one that was on the phone with him telling him like where the hell did you get these? Yeah, that was supposed to be Amadeus Choke. Who is the Awesome Hulk in the Champions? Yeah. OK. And the smartest person in. Well, the second smartest person in. OK, Marvel Comics. OK, now do we? Did you guys talk about Ruth? Very, very. Go ahead, you too. No pun intended. Well, I also had a that's another that's. See, this is a problem. We're to my highlights. I had a problem because I was like, so we're trying to now replace Black Widow because you had to have her straight from the same area and stuff. I didn't care for that.

1:42:33 That's just my opinion. Well, it was it, it I guess like they were saying it was better than her being Israeli and fighting on those forces. I think that's why they changed it, because of all of the stuff. Going on with the Yeah, the character's name was Sabra. Yeah, yeah. It could just be Ruth and she just worked really hard and she's a great fighter. I just she has to be like Black. Widow. Yeah, but they, I mean they had. You don't have to. I mean, she can have that job. I'm OK with that. I'm OK. She can fight. She could have training, but it don't have to be like she's from the same as Black Widow.

1:43:16 I just felt like you were trying to do a replacement, that's all. Well, no, I mean it could. It could just be Fallout or, you know, kind of like if you think about Black Widow, they released all of the all of the widows that were being held by and controlled by what's his name. So she could have been part of that, like, OK. She could have what? What other other show do we have? Any from anybody from? Huh. I mean, she's been released long time ago. All those women were released long time ago. Do we have any other shows that they're from the same area? Any other well. We, we don't know. I mean there could, there could be a few in Thunderbolts, maybe we have what, what I'm trying to say is that was a long time ago.

1:44:00 And if we did that, we should start leading up. Not necessarily, because if you think about it, the Tiamet coming up out of the Indian Ocean was also years ago and they are just now dealing with that problem. But that wasn't another movie in a news newspaper. Article That was a She Hulk and it was very it was a very brief thing. This is almost five years after the fact, so. Also. Yeah. I'm OK with that because you're trying to explain it. I'm just saying we just, we didn't need to have a call back to like, oh, she's like Natasha. Well, I. Think I think that. She can be. She can be from the Red Room. She ain't going to be no Natasha and no Ulaina. I know. I think.

1:44:40 It's. Like no point like I like I explained before, this is just them trying to make up for having and having an Israeli character and not having to seem tone deaf as as far as like the whole Iran pal, Israel, Palestine, Palestine conflict. And like they didn't want to seem like they were choosing side. They don't want to want to make it seem like they were being pro Israel and like trying to get into the fight so to speak. I mean. My whole thing is why did y'all even need to mention where she was from? Right, that's what I'm saying. So they were going to make her. They were going to make her that character that.

1:45:20 But when you decided not to make her that character, why did you just like y'all? Y'all could have just said, we don't know where she's from, but we we know she was part of the Red Room. Or you could have. You could have said a whole. Bunch of you didn't even have to say where she was from. Did we learn Ross's Secret Service where she was from? Is she from Georgia? Is she from California? Is she from Detroit? Like we don't need to know where everybody's from. I mean, it's just Ruth, you know, even though my favorite scene was she was like, look at that Bucky. And he was like, well, he over 100. Years old, she was like, I can work with that.

1:46:01 But other than that, we didn't. You didn't have to throw in the Taj's background. You had to throw in anything that was controversial because we don't know where anyone else is from. You got a point, I agree. But everybody didn't walk around with their resume and their birth certificate, so. Well, I mean, they were trying to to find out her background. They were trying to dig on her because they was trying to figure out who she was, if she was good, if she was bad. We can find much. Everything was redacted. Right, that's all. That would be good too, because you would. Like, I don't think the redaction would have stopped Joaquin, but that's OK. OK, I'm going to say this again.

1:46:42 I can't believe they had Sam visit the raft and say hey to President Ross and say hey to Sterns but you don't show him saying hey to Zemo like it y'all? Y'all could have did a little cameo and Zemo could have been like hello Sam how are you? Or something y'all could have did. But that wouldn't have been enough for you. He. He. Might now he might not be there. True, that's where the Wakandas left them. He might not be there. That's. Maybe now where Ross with him? Somewhere else He. May not be there. Remember, he had connections, he has money. Yeah, he's a Baron.

1:47:22 Yeah, he as he explained in Falcon and Winners. He has no country but. And Franco, do you just want him in the cell and him having the music in the background? I mean, hey, that would have worked for me. I just want to see him like we saw we had Sam for the movie. We got a cameo Bucky, we could have had a cameo Zemo. I would have been good. And like I said, they could have brought the power broker and she could have been like they they could have made that conflict into. We could have had old cap. Oh. They got, they got, they got so much stuff to do to bring that in that's just not even worth, not even worth trying. Don't. No, no.

1:48:03 Oh, camp, he's on the moon. He could have he. Could have. He could have owned the gym. Whereas Ian Bradley was working out, they've been working out. Together, it's just too bad. That's just you see, then then that'll bring up that'll bring up all the all all the white guys saying bring him back, give him back to SHIELD. He doesn't give him back to SHIELD, Sam, give him back to SHIELD. I ain't trying to hear all that bullshit. No, no. Man's 200 years old. He's. Done. He's done. He's retired. He's retired. Oh, you saw how Isaiah Bradley was moving, boy. I know he. Was around. Those big crashing through that window and fucking out, running out, running the cops in the fucking square.

1:48:46 I was like. Listen, listen, when he did that shit I was like oh y'all really think y'all going to catch him? And I'm telling you, if he wouldn't have broken out of that spell, his ass would have been gone. They would have. Yeah, Zemo, his Zemo wouldn't have tried to attach to the White House, White House Wi-Fi and ran out, ran out of the bars. Then, you know, he would have gotten away clean. But soon, as soon as he ran out of the range, he was like, wait, what? Just like, just like when you get too far from your house and you have your headphones on, your Bluetooth headphones on and they cut off you, like, what the hell? It's like damn, but that scene was so sad. It's like Isaiah looked so confused again. Carl Lumbley killed that fucking role. Like he stepped out that shit.

1:49:29 He was he. He literally looked like he had he had to he. Was like Sam, what is going on? How do I get out here? Like he like he was so good in this room and he better get the fucking up. But no, you know what? I don't want him to get a nomination because the last person that did a really good job in a supporting role in the Marvel movie that got nominated for something got shafted. So never mind. Yeah, You know, they're not going, they're not going to give any nominations for stuff like this. They never recogn, you know, they never recognized him. So he did the PTSD good, too. Like, I don't want to be in prison. I can't do this anymore.

1:50:10 Crushing crushed it. He was really good. He was. Really good. OK, so question that final scene, the the end credits scene, were they referencing Avengers, Secret Wars? Oh, and I think we need to mention the fact that Thunderbolt Ross officially asked Sam to start back up The Avengers in this movie. So we'll see how that goes. But that ends credits scene, was that referencing Secret Wars? Probably. He was referencing the multiverse. That's what I thought. And single was Yeah. Or it's all. Coming. I mean, you know, maybe, maybe, maybe. And yeah, see, I was.

1:50:51 Wondering about that too. I don't know, but probably that's probably super wars. I think he. Was referencing the multiverse, yeah. OK, OK. What are you going to do when you have to defend this world from them? And then at the end, I told Anthony, I said, So what happened to my green people? They they're in play. They're not in play. But no, no, no. We're doing something. We're not doing something scrolls. We don't talk about scrolls. No, no. But I mean, I mean. It's a good. Question. I mean 'cause. They're they're in the government, we. Don't talk about. They're still here, but you know, they're just still with it. OK, they're taking over people.

1:51:38 Do we know who? Imagine trying to have a movie and try to explain that to people who have who didn't watch the show. It would be a lot, no? We're not doing it. Yeah, it'll be a lot. And but then there's a lot asking Sam to acquire their Avengers. Like who he gonna call right Ant man? Yeah, they did mention what? What, Ryan? What is torrent obsession with Ant Man 'cause they kept mentioning him I was like why is he obsessed with Scott? Because because they have a, they have a history I. Don't, Sam. Because the originals there's there's no more originals.

1:52:20 Well let me see cause Hawkeye is retired. So if if he does call a Hawkeye most likely will be Kate Bishop. Natasha's gone, Tony's gone, Cap is gone, Thor is probably off world Hulk is. Thor got a child. Already. Yeah. So yeah, I mean at this. Point does too. Yeah, by his son. So do you think? OK, so since the event, so since the adventures are pretty much defunct, do you think this will be where the Young Avengers start coming in, where they start bringing them in?

1:53:05 Because, I mean, we've already been introduced to Kate Bishop, we've been introduced to Isaiah Bradley, we've been introduced to Wiccan. And huh, what I say I meant to say a. Lot. Yeah, a lot. Yeah, you're right, a lot. Yeah, the grandson. Yeah, he actually had, yeah. I meant to say a lot. Too, So those are the latest scene with him too, that they that was supposed to be included, but they took it out. See, I would have liked to have seen that because that, again, that would have tied in more with Sam's story than anything else. But OK, so we got Kate. Elijah is Marvel, we got Wanda's. Well, we we know of one of Wanda's sons that's that's still alive.

1:53:52 They're looking for the other one. So do we think the Young Avengers will actually happen? They got Miss Marvel, they got. And they have just a girl Tony suit. I in her. Oh, really, Will? Yeah, OK. No, I have her. I don't. I don't. Think they're going to do Young Avenues until after, at least after. They're not going to tease until at least after Vision Quest, because I think in Vision Quest they're going to try to find the other brother and they'll try to find Tommy, OK? I think finding Tommy is going to have something to do, is going to blend into that. Until they find Tommy, they're not going to do anything. And they have the Wonder Man. Series coming. Oh yeah, they do.

1:54:34 Oh, OK. I don't know. OK. So I, I don't, I don't know as much young Avengers as going ahead and skipping to having them be Avengers. OK. Because so they're going to be kind of old. They're going to. Be. Old to be again. Yeah, they also the there's rumors that they're trying to find someone to be T'challa, but everyone's saying no. OK. So I don't I don't know what where that leaves and with Black Panther, because obviously they think they. Want, I think they're looking at OK, they're looking at all this. I don't think all this said no yet.

1:55:16 Well, Boyega said. No hard but. They're looking at all this hard now. My thing is, if you gonna bring Boyega into the MCU, give him his own, his own role. Don't give that man points and a whole lot of money. That. Well, that too. But. But what? Yeah, but what I'm saying is do him. Yeah, don't do him like they did, but do him. Should I? That's bullshit. He does not need to be a recast or anything like that. Give him his own role. Give him something original that he can, that he can. Yeah. OK, so. And I heard that they were bringing they, they were toying with the idea of bringing Jonathan Majors back.

1:56:02 Yes, I did hear that. And also your boy from fear the. Living. Dead has a has a role, but they're. Not no. Apparently they they asked him about replacing Jonathan Majors as king. He refused to do it. Yeah. So if they bring again, if they bring him into the MCU, give him his own role because he would absolutely kill it. I mean, so yeah, see, I can't talk about it. Never mind. Can't. Talk what this he's he's playing a role already but I can't talk about it cause y'all haven't watched what I'm going to talk about.

1:56:43 Oh, OK, so yeah, OK, no spoilers, no spoilers. So, OK, so the general consensus is we like the movie, but we just didn't feel like it was a Captain America movie. Yeah, please. That's the the majority since consensus. I can go. Along with. That OK, OK, but it was it was a fun movie. I will definitely go watch it again. Again. You know, Anthony Mackie's Sam Wilson is one of my favorite characters in the MCU. I'm, I'm very partial towards the human characters, which is why him and, you know, he, Hawkeye, Black Widow, they have been three of my top characters.

1:57:29 And of course I got, you know, even though he's a super soldier, I got to add Bucky in there 'cause it just, I like, I like the Bucky and Sam dynamic even more than I like the Bucky and Steve dynamic. So, yeah, yeah. So, well, I'm not going to see this movie again, but it did make me want to see Falcon and The Winter Soldier. I did rewatch it. I did rewatch that last week and then I listened to the 1st 2 episodes where we covered it on the show and I was like, OK, yeah, I think the opinions still hold up for this show. That's one of the things, you know, sometimes we watch things and we have an opinion. And then as time goes by, I think our opinions can change and we look at things a little bit differently.

1:58:12 And I think that's one show that my opinion still has not changed on. It's still one of my top shows. Like, yeah, it's really good. It's it's one of the better MCU things that they've put out in in the last few years. So, OK, since I've been asked, I have to show this. So I went to a screening of of Captain America with the MCUATL group and they had trivia questions and they were like, hey, does anybody want to be put on the spot to answer to a trivia question? So I raised my hand because I think the last time we did one of these, I think Mike won a pair of tickets to Momo Con and you know, they were also giving up tickets to Momo Con. They, I think the last event I went to, they gave away, I think I went to the Deadpool and they gave away like one of the 10 inch Deadpool Funkos or something like that. So I'm thinking, OK, it's going to be something like that. So the, the question was, what did Sam Wilson do to honor Isaiah Bradley?

1:59:14 So of course the answer is he added Isaiah Bradley. He added a tribute to Isaiah Bradley to the Captain America exhibit at the Smithsonian. So they were like, yes, correct, you get a shield. So I ended up winning one of the actual replicas of the Captain America shield. This is not the, this is not the plastic shield. This is the metal one with the leather straps and everything. And I was like, hey, I love it. Don't go on your knowledge, throw it around. No, we will not be doing that because I am not trained to do that.

2:00:00 I do not have the upper body strength to do that. It will sit very prettily somewhere. I don't know. I think it's, I think it's time to do an office refresh. So I may change all this stuff back here and start putting up the Marvel stuff. You know how much you can. Get for that bro no because I have been wanting one of these Shields but I have not had the $200 plus to to shell out for so the fact that I got this for answering a trivia question free no over my dead cold body. Will somebody get this you? Have to take it to Dragon Con and get it autographed by people from the MC. Let's see if if if we get people from the MCU at Dragon Con.

2:00:41 I will do that specifically from you know, Avengers or Marvel, but I I don't think we've had any in the last few years. So you. Probably have some ancillary people who you know you don't think about it. What you see, because my, my plan for this year is to try to go to New York Comic Con, especially if the Outlander people are there and they usually have some of the bigger Marvel people, like I think a couple of years ago they had Sebastian Stan and they had Elizabeth Olsen. So if they do that, then I may, you know, have to take a road trip because I'm right now, I don't think I'm getting on a plane anytime soon. So yeah, I, I may have to do that. But yeah, this is staying here.

2:01:30 It will probably be center right behind me maybe in a couple of months once I decide to refresh my my back wall, but we'll see. But yeah, I, I just thought it was so cool 'cause I was like, I'm thinking, oh, he said shit. I'm thinking it's one of the plastic ones. And when he handed it to me, I literally did this like, Oh my God, this, this shit is heavy. So yeah, yeah, you America shield. So any final thoughts about Captain America brand new? Alright, real quick, for most of the reshoots for like the reshoots in the church with Sidewinder, they used the Loki set from the first season when they when they were first when they first were looking for enchanted in Sarah, whatever her name is, the she Loki, they used that.

2:02:24 They used that church where they went in episode 1 of the first season where they were looking for OK, so that was one thing they did shout out to in the first scene where Joaquin was like Joaquin got the dress like the Falcon that reminded me of Sheree get driving to Lexus in the first Black Panther where she finally she finally got to participate in something because. He was. Like, yeah, they're gonna get away. I don't think you can make it. He's like, fine, then go ahead and suit up. He's like, yes. It reminded me of Sheree getting ready to drive to Lexus in Black Panther. OK, I'd like that South Walt Whitman getting a special cameo with his quote on Ross's wife's tombstone. Is that keep your face always toward the sunshine and shadows will fall behind you.

2:03:13 So that's a Walt Whitman quote. I can appreciate that. What else? I think I talked about the three, the three pictures in in Isaiah's gym of Jackie Robinson, Jack Johnson and Luau Cinder before he became Kareem Abdul Jabbar. It's like they're all all black people who who spoke up and were knocked down. And it's like it's kind of symbolic to be in be in Isaiah's, Isaiah's gym where he was like people who stood for something but got punished for it just like he did, like for 30 years. I thought that was pretty cool.

2:03:55 I think that's all I got. I have one the the area that Sam and Serpent Sidewinder had their fight outside after he tried to kill after he tried to kill Sam Nick Fury style. That area is an area that Casey and Michelle will be familiar. With. Wait, wait, wait. It's it's the wall. It's the Clearwall area from The Walking Dead when Morgan lived in King County by himself.

2:04:38 Yeah, it's actually the the section of the wall where they did the tour with Lenny James Last year. So, yeah. So, yeah, we got a little Walking Dead. I I. Definitely saw that and I was like. Yeah, like I know that place. I. Know exactly where that's at? Yeah. Yeah, I shouted them making it painfully obvious which scenes were reshot by the really bad green screening that they did. Like some of that green screen was just like blatantly obvious. I was just but like come on man. Like the the in credit scene was so bad. It's like everything was blurry in the backroom behind him. I was like like not even, it's not not even OK. It's supposed to be out of focus, whatever. But it's like bad green screen, blurry. I was just like, come on, guys.

2:05:31 But yeah, I I mean, I enjoyed a lot of performances in this. I'm just. The performances weren't the problem. Yeah, just everything else. So the performances weren't the problem. I think everybody did a great job. And like I said, Anthony Mackie, Harrison Ford, just like above board, they were phenomenal. So I just, you know, like I said, I, I wanted the story to relate more to Sam and his story instead of somebody, you know, closing out somebody else. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, who? Who mentioned Sarah earlier? I would have loved to have seen Sarah and the boys, you know, even just a little.

2:06:13 OK, yeah. Y'all stay over here. I'm going to take care of, I mean, and we could have done a little cameo that would have at least given it more of a grounded feeling for, I mean. They showed a pic. They showed a picture of her in cats in cats office slash control area. Like there was a picture of her there. Where? Where was that I? Know I have. No idea. Then I had question and then I had questions. Who's paying Sam? Because the last we left off, Sam was struggling. You know they didn't have money. They. Were the mortgage and he's working for Ross now, so I'm assuming he's getting a government paycheck. OK, 'cause when that first car got blown up and he got a nice second car, I was like, OK, he live in a better.

2:06:57 Life. Yeah, yeah, he did before he got a Hummer. I'm like, oh. Yeah, that was probably a government vehicle, Yeah. Yeah, I'm surprised, but see, Bucky should have walked out and said hey, say hi to your sister for me, see. That would be good, yeah. That would have been fun, but OK, so let's see the next MCU project to come out. Is it the Thunderbolts 'cause I don't think any of the shows are starting until I think what? I mean iron. Heart is in the summer, right? Yeah. So right now, that's the. Only thing. OK. Yeah, OK.

2:07:38 So. No one watching. Huh. I'm. The only one watching Watching what? The Spider Man cartoon. Oh, OK, well, technically speaking, that's not MCU, but I'm, I'm probably gonna watch it. But we have other things that we have to prioritize on this show based on what we cover so. Goodbye. Is he? Born. Is he daredevil? Born again. It's this year. Yeah, but it's not until later this year is I think. Think about. Fantastic. Fantastic Four is in the summer. I think that's July alright, so.

2:08:18 Then it'd be. Thunderbolt. Yeah, Thunderbolts come because Thunderbolts comes out my birthday weekend. Wait, wait, This ain't that wait. This OK question. So is Thunderbolts their name after the president? Yes, OK. Yes, there's the whole pesky thing with that asterisk. Yeah, I saw that asterisk. Me when they said the Thunderbolt some like. And when they mentioned it in the movie, I was like, oh, that's the. Same do they go. Together, it's probably. I don't know that Even so great question, so. I have a theory. So I think that they can't, they're not, they can't call themselves the Thunderbolts because Thunderbolt is because Ross is in the raft, like he's locked up.

2:09:06 So if they want to have a positive image, they can't name themselves after somebody who's locked up. It's like, why would they call themselves that? They already have a bad, they already have a bad image because most of them are mercenaries and killers and shit. So they're trying to their image. Why would they name themselves after after somebody who just tore up Washington, DC and crushed the fucking White House right like that? That that is counterproductive to anything that makes you look positive. And you know what I just thought about maybe that's what the whole congressional hearing is that we that we see at the beginning of the trailer. Because what is the one thing about Valentina says she says The Avengers aren't coming.

2:09:47 Maybe that has to do with the aftermath of Ross's hulking out. Probably. OK Oh, there is one other thing about the movie that I wanted to mention that was very different, and that's the absence of the Marvel scroll at the beginning of the movie. Yeah, that was very strange because the screening that I went to, of course, because it was a, it was a fan event screening, we didn't get any, we didn't get any promos or any trailers before. So it literally, it started on time at 7:00 and then they ended up stopping it right before Ross got to stage to start speaking to everyone because they were waiting for a few other people to get there. And I thought I was like, that's a weird way to start the movie. And then when it started again, I noticed it again. I was like, that's a weird way to start the movie. It's like it, it started as a cold open and then they did a a title screen and then they went into the movie and I was like, so why didn't we get it?

2:10:56 I don't know. I got to I got to look it up. Now that we've had this discussion, now I can start going to read articles and stuff because I didn't want, you know, you know how I am. I don't read anybody's things before we before we have our discussion. So now I can look it up and go see and be like, oh, that's why they're doing that. But yeah, I thought that was really weird. Like that's how we start, Captain. That was strange. OK. It was well. Their devil born Again starts March 4th. That's crazy. Yeah, like soon. Soon. Oh OK so I guess I need to like watch the original one on on Disneyland before that. Start have fun speed watching that.

2:11:37 OK, this is what it say. It's a in in the Marvel Cinematic Universe, Captain America's first film, Captain America First Avenger did not feature the standard Marvel title score in the beginning because it was intended to feel like a classic World War 2 era film. So because the first one didn't have, they didn't put it in this. Oh, OK, per Google, per per the Googles, OK, OK, cool. OK, so Daredevil is coming up. I'm I'm assuming you guys want to cover Daredevil, right? Yes. Michelle is like. Yeah, 'cause the Punisher is in. Oh yeah.

2:12:19 Oh. Oh, yes, yes. OK, so Daredevil is coming up. As I know there's a accountant too and Shane is going to be. Yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah. OK, OK, so Daredevil Thunderbolts. It says the Thunderbolts has an asterisk because I'm a poster. It says The Avengers are not available. That is funny. That that's for I have. To look at the poster the next time I'm at. Right. OK, which again, ties into the trailer where Valentina is at the congressional hearing.

2:13:00 She's like, The Avengers are not coming. And then you have this ragtag team that she's putting together from her new from her new digs at. Avengers Tower. Oh, yeah. OK. All right, so we got a few things coming up Marvel wise that we'll be discussing. I think we've all said our piece on Captain America and yeah, it it, it didn't feel like Captain America to me, but it's a Captain America movie. Anthony Mackie was great. And on that note, that is it for our show. You can find us online at www.phantomhybrid.com. We are on social media, on all the social media at Phantom Hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord channel. You can watch our videos on our YouTube channel, and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening.

2:13:50 We'll be joining the conversation next time.