Fandom Hybrid Podcast #41 - The Stand (2020) Ep. 5

0:25 What's up hybrids? Welcome back to another episode of Venom hybrid podcast. This is hanako. And I'm here with Anthony and we are discussing episode 5 of The Stand. And, you know, I've been spending this evening editing the previous episode, where we discussed episodes, three and four. And there were some things that we talked about in that show that completely fell flat in this episode. And I just feel Some kind of way about it. What do you feel flat? So in the Shell that we did four episodes three and four we were talking about some of the events that happened and we talked about some of the characters and one of the characters that we brought up was Dana our introduction to her and how you know, she was a badass in this in that episode and you know, how they sent her to New Vegas is what they're calling me, but they sent her to New Vegas.

1:24 To be one of the spies because you know, she's such a badass. She can handle herself. And I have to say I was so. So very disappointed with her character in this episode. It was. Now the thing is, I like the actress. I liked her when she was in Boulder. but when she got to New Vegas, almost from the beginning, just the way that they talk about her character life from the beginning, the first scene of the episode, we get Julie and Dana and Lloyd. And of course, Julie is the little cowgirl that we met in the last episode who first encounters Nick, and Tom before they leave to go to Boulder and she obviously ends up in Vegas, which we figured anywhere the Husky, right? So she comes down to find Dana where Dana has already. She's We made it to Vegas.

2:23 She's already been put on a work crew and she goes to find her, you know, to ask if she's like, so word around town is you've been asking a lot of questions about flag, you know, about the big man and blah, blah blah. And you, you know, you've been making a, you know, making some noise and people people are saying you're being nosy or whatever. Immediately. I'm like, Dana supposed to be smarter than this. This is one of the reasons why they said to her, she's not supposed to draw attention. into herself and like, literally That was one of the things that they mentioned about her throughout the whole episode about her. She's asking a lot of questions and even when she meets Lloyd for the, for the first time and they're taking her up to their, you know, their Penthouse. She still asking questions a winner. What am I going to meet him?

3:15 And that I and I was just like, I was literally holding my head in my hands this whole episode because I was like, one, you are not subtle in the least, right? So you have the worst control of facial expressions. I have ever seen on a character ever. Literally. They are not really good at reading people's expressions. Like they were halfway to paying attention to. Can I get that? But still, it's like she didn't even try. It's like, she looks scared. She looked nervous. She looked afraid of being found out. Like I said, she was too eager.

4:02 She kept asking questions. She seemed uncomfortable the whole time. It just, I had so many hopes for her character when we were introduced to her in, like, from the beginning. Meaning of this episode all the way to the very end. I was just disappointed. I was just like Really? This is what y'all did with character her character was. It wasn't that different? Well, she's a little different in the books, right later. The book in the books. She like she what she basically.

4:42 Well one. That's pretty most right beside a little bit longer. Shit. Actually worked her way up to being Lloyd's girlfriend. The the heart that Julie is playing now. She had worked her way up to being a lawyer's girlfriend, and literally had him. Fooled, had them all food for a long time. And then I think flag kind of found it out and told Lloyd, and then that was comes to sleeping with Lloyd in the book. She was like, yes, she's sleeping over the top. Right, right. And, you know, as she did it to the point where he was really pissed off, because she fooled him.

5:23 Like he really thought she was into him. Yeah, house. The way that they did it with this character again. I know that there are some changes. Like I said, you know, Julie was lawyer's girl and then they did this whole thing where they were bringing her in for threesome. And then you know, the vibe of New Vegas was very almost hedonistic. Kind of almost. Yes, it was Sodom and Gomorrah. Yes, but you know what? One of the things about Hedonism is this supposed to be Like ultimate pleasure without pain. And there wasn't painting that because you had the fighting pits where they were literally hacking each other to death.

6:04 So that's why I say almost, but yes, like Vegas, Randall, Flags, Vegas is the epitome of sex drugs, and rock, and roll, you know, you know, what? I thought of I thought this is basically Lloyd's wet dream because it seemed like everything was with Lloyd would want in A place right there. Seems to be something that would be like this. This is this was his vision of how everything should be. Alright, you know, when you know, Randall, just hope knock yourself out right now. I was not one of the thing. I know you're talking about her character.

6:46 I'm very disappointed in Lloyds character. Like McGill. No for real. No for real would be like roll. Over in his grave, as in like, what did you guys do with this character? Like, well, he's one. He's younger. He's a younger version of the character and all of them. I mean, think about it in the original and in the books. Again, we're talking about a, we're talking about stories that are about 30 years apart. So wouldn't you excuse me? 40 years, apart. I keep forgetting because I was 17 when I started reading it. So but you know, you're talking about a book that takes place in like the 80s.

7:35 So it was a little more toned down. As far as that, like, Randall Flagg was, he was the, he was the boogeyman, he was the guy who was getting them out of situations and, you know, there was a little bit of a hierarchy in the original version, but it wasn't. What it is now, you know, it kind of hinted at like the Vegas Vibe or the sexual Vibe, but it wasn't anything. So blatant as this iteration is I don't mind that as much. There's that that I'm totally okay with, I'm just not.

8:16 Okay. With Lloyd being a clown, he was literally a clown and, and there's a way I would I think there's a way that you could could modernize Lloyd in a way where he's not a clown, you know, well, this list be so Lloyd is in a position where he is Flags right-hand, man, so, he's got the position and he's now got the ego to go along with it. And, you know, he's kind of drunk off of Power. I know. But I think I think Power. They act like clowns it will absolute power corrupts. Absolutely some common theme in this show, but we talked about it in every episode of every series, but I think it's probably more or less my own fault because I had, I had kind of put Lloyd in the category of people who were put in positions where they had no choice to to choose to be with Randall. Flag that maybe in him was a good person since you know, he didn't want to kill anyone in the robbery. He was upset when someone actually died, but I understand he would be into Fame.

9:42 But like I said, I thought I was thinking there was no way they could have done the portrayal without him coming off as a clown. Like I say, it's probably have a little more dignity. This is a little bit more. Like you can still have the fun and beautiful. And guy but not be like, just, he just seemed to be just a complete, filthy nasty animal, who deserves whatever he gets right, you know, snorting coke and again you're impotent at the dimension of random. Is this? And you can't tell me that. Julie doesn't know what she's doing. She do she does. She's see our business is doing it on purpose.

10:28 She was like, are you okay? And, you know, I said this, the last episode, I said, I absolutely love cat McNamara as Julie Lowry. And, you know, when we were introduced to her in the last episode, in this episode, I have to say, I think, Julie Lowry might be one of my favorite characters of hers ever now. Like, she no one can pull out for dignified skank, as well as Oh my gosh, he's doing such a great job of it and it is amazing. I'm loving it. Absolutely. Loving it and then her wardrobe, you know, she is like all glammed out and she is living it up for.

11:13 She's like, okay if I have to suck up to the right-hand man to get this Glitz and glamour, I'm going to do it but I don't have to necessarily like it. So it's like she's sucking up to him and at the same time. I'm bringing him down like like when they were there on the bed. They were trying to make out with Dana and they're kissing and stuff. Is she said something about flag and he's like, you know, I don't like it when you say his name will we're about to fucking. She's told she turns the Dana but she's like, oh, I forgot. He doesn't like it when I say mister flags and and she literally turns this visit in his face like several times and he's just he can't get it up now and Goes to the bathroom and he's embarrassed and she is like silently cracking up, because this is so funny to her. It's funny.

12:04 This is not going to happen. We can go shopping know. What's funny is. He says, he says, I told you this like five times and I'm thinking to myself, multiply that times for he's probably, he's probably told her about 20 times. What I am absolute. Okay, so I talked about how much I didn't like the way they did, they Has character in this Julie's cares. It's absolutely loving. Absolutely love her. You you mentioned, you mentioned Julia's worship. Dana's were Drew was just as good as wardrobe was good to that. That last outfit she had on the glittery pants. Repair answer like they were dressed to the nines and New Vegas and they were in even even Lloyd's soup. Your head on it for fight with Pretty Fly. He was he was just looking, they were all looking good. But it was it was just Again, characters. That's one of the things that makes the stand the story that it is and I just felt like, they just felt like they did anything.

13:16 Yeah, but Dana thing was, was a little strange and odd. I could have gotten over a little bit of it, except for her facial expressions. Her facial expressions took me out of the whole story like because it was such a distraction. I was like, why are you looking so obviously uncomfortable. Like you're supposed to be undercover. You're supposed to be blending in. You're not supposed to be making yourself stand out. You know, and it's just like it, just, it, it took me out of the story. It was odd because it was completely opposite in the book in the book. She didn't stand out and flag was the one that sent for her. So that it I wonder if it was just just a change because because they, I don't want to say that they, they don't. The try.

14:15 It seems like the writing the story really for people who haven't read the book because that change ever. So subtle, just if you read the book, it would just make you think what what are they doing? Dana? You're at me. Like, that's not how she was supposed to be. Yeah. She she didn't stand out and I don't know. I don't know if they want because I'm trying. How am I supposed to do this? Like, remember, I think I said, how do they not have this flag? Not know they're coming. You know, that would be the question you would have watching this, but if you read the book, he knew they were coming.

14:56 And they were they who knew they were and here is almost as if they're like, well, we're going to kind of make it look like he doesn't know but we in reality. No, he does know. Right? Whoo-hoo, the spots are and thing I have ever tried. Yeah, they're trying to I don't want to use words to Verde. Expectations again, but he kinda wanted to have it where with made her stand out. Was her asking questions as opposed to him already knowing? Yeah, I mean to build up to the climax of the episode, you know, when see go was he finally meets him because then he's like aha. I knew all along. I mean, as opposed to we already know he knew that mean this is like this is trying to mess with our expectations, but you didn't The way where you took away, everything that we kind of liked about Dana, you just kind of whitewashed it all the way and made you relevant.

15:55 Right? The other thing since you since you mention about him knowing who the spies were, so the other thing that I did not like was, of course, once she goes once flag calls for her and they push her out the elevator basically at this point, you know, flag pretty much his figured out which We saw, he probably, he kind of sort of looked at her when they were there watching the fight, you know, he was making a speech to everyone and his face kind of singled her out. He looked at her and was still talking, right? Right. So we know that was only her sing. It like saying that he saw her, so she goes up to his Penthouse and he asks, her about the spies.

16:38 He tells her that he knows that she's a spy. He's not, he's been watching her ever since she left Boulder. Okay, which that made sense? Because this is Randall Flagg. He's supposed to be all-knowing. And one of the things about him is that he couldn't see what was going on in Boulder. So, of course, he would see them once they come out. This is what I didn't like. So she sees Tom Cullen down in the pits. He's one of the people that cleans up the body parts in the dead bodies. After they do this little hacking fight that they, you know, that they do, the fighting ring, and she makes an excuse to go down into the pits, to talk to him because she wants to warn him about leaving. This bug me so much because The main things about the story. The original story is that the spies could not know who they who each other were, because Randall Flagg can read minds. So all he has to do is just look and see what you're thinking about or look, you know, look for the answers that he wants, and he be able to get it.

17:55 That was one of the big things about sending them separately and them, not knowing who the other person. One was. Yeah, and it seemed like a failure. I hope her part to kind of single him out for something. Right? I mean, and and like you say that, I don't know. I don't understand why they wrote that in there. I don't understand why that was part of the story and why should have him a note likewise, ER, give him a note and he can't read. And, I understand that she might not know that he, she doesn't. She doesn't, she doesn't know him, really. She has seen. Him, but she doesn't know him. But again, this is this is the part where I say that was a change to the original story that you didn't have to make, didn't have to make.

18:42 And even in the contest, even in the context of this story. It's not even important. It's not even, it's not even relevant. Like, what have we gained by her going to him? We as the people watching, as the viewers, we know who he is. We know that he's there. You already shown this that he's Is there. So what was the purpose of that whole scene other than to, to let us know that now Julie and Lloyd have seen the last person that she was talking to, so right. It starts making inquiries. Well, I need to know who the first spy is. They'll be like, oh, well, she was talking to this dude, and she was making it very, you know, she was being very adamant.

19:24 We write it was again, so out of character for who Dana was supposed to be. Yeah. And from from the then seems like something really stupid to have to write into the show to, to set us up for Randall, trying to figure out, figure out, who the third is five years. It's just, I don't know. You would think they could do better. They really could be better without making Dana's character appear even worse than she is, right? And we've seen her in a pressure situation, make really good decisions. Asians, you know, we've seen her in a life-or-death situation making good decisions. So all the decisions she made in this, since she went to Vegas seem to be dubious at best, don't dump dubious at best them at the worst.

20:22 And any other the last thing with Dana is when she she thinks she's killed. Randall Flagg, you know, she take some scissors and shears. Was it into his neck? He pretends like he's dead and he gets up and he still asking her. Who's the third spot? Who's the third spot? That doesn't fit with what we're supposed to know about flag because flag, went need to ask her. He could have tried to read her mind and then the way that they set this up with her going to meet Tom. He would have seen that. So none of that made sense from a story point of view. It just didn't flow, right? Right.

21:02 Well, Let's give them the benefit of a doubt. I'm getting antsy steer from Hanukkah. The main one always talking about, we are giving the writers too much credit. And now you want to give them some credit. Let's give them a this. This this is, let's try this. Try this. Let's just the same. Let's say he can read minds, but Dana doesn't know, Tom's name. She went after nose. Now. She'll all he would have to do is see his face. Well all he's seeing, if he read her mind all he would see with she was asking asking for a bracelet that she lost and then he was see Tom's response and how he is and everybody calling him dumb it all he has to all he would have to do literally is Go Ask.

21:58 Okay where the dummies. Well good, but if you think about this, if you see did you talk to him if They assume that that may have been the spot. Maybe you tried to read his mind. And, you know, Tom's brain. Is he going to be just this going to be a mess? Anyway, so this say this, this is a, the Raptors are just seeing Tom, Cullen is so dumb. That Randall reads his mind and doesn't realize. He's a spy. So that's why he stumped. He stepped because he can't figure it out. Because he can't really read Tom Collins mine. And when you tries to read his mind, his mind is a mess. So he doesn't dig any deeper.

22:44 He can't possibly be the spot. He's already assumed that they're all smart because he's like, oh, yeah, you got the old lady outside the town and you know, yeah. Y'all had to staggered entry. Right? So he's ready when issues come into contact with. So you probably use like what? Maybe they haven't spoken to each other and don't know. We took, you know, have have actually talked to each other since since they've been there, then he would just be like, okay. Well, it can't it's not this guy because he's an idiot. That's how overconfident Randall. Flagg. Is this, how cocky he is. He's like he just glanced at times of mine. No, no possible way and moved on to the next.

23:27 That's why he stumped. He doesn't make any sense to him and they're not going to figure it out because there's no possible way. They would have sent someone as dumb as time. I'm coming to to spy on them and let me just let me just make it clear. We're not calling Tom Cullen. Dumb where it words. No. No, we're not calling him dumb recalling. We're saying with the people in context think of him. Yeah. I just wanted if there's something completely different. Yeah. I'm glad you made that clear. I don't think Tom Cullen is dumb. That's that's not even what we're talking about is is how he's perceived by the Leave the bastards who are running lost Vegas, where that lady at the front desk, when he was checking in on, exactly reach through the TV and punch her between her Escape. Well, hey, it's so bad.

24:21 The guard was like, wait, is the guards? Both of them? Like, wait a second. We don't treat any mood is coming here. They're free wheel like that, no matter who they are. Yeah. I mean, I give them credit for that because they saw enough to her her place in sorry. No. No. We Just not gonna throw him in the slave pain because you don't like them, right? Yeah. I'm saying. So I'll give him credit for that. Yeah, but you know because that they basically saying, no, no, no, you can't just no, we're just talking to treat people any kind of way that come here. So, I'm okay. At that. That was like the one bright spot in the whole episode. When these two random security people like, no, no, no.

25:05 No, that's not what we're going to do with him. Anyone who comes here with their Free Will is treated with respect. They're, they're, they're considered a citizen. That's right, and I'm okay with that. But we are not calling Tom coming down that, that is the perspective of the people who don't know any better. Yeah. Okay. I just have one more thing to say about Vegas. And then we can go back to Boulder cook because I mean, really Vegas, this episode was Danna Lloyd, and Julie for the most part. yeah, but We're seeing more and more of Randall, Flagg, and Alexander Skarsgard as Randall. Flagg is like, probably the best casting decision. They did for this show.

25:56 I think he's perfect. I keep thinking of all the times when he was playing Eric and Trueblood right, where he went from soft, sweet and caring, Eric to I'm Going to rip your head off. Exactly. There it is. He was doing it and I'm like, wow, that this guy is, he's incredible. Incredible. And I mean he he has that kind of Charisma that you think of with Randall Flagg like yes, Randall Flagg is supposed to be terrifying. You know again, he's the boogie man. He's the dark man. He's the walking dude. He's supposed to be all of these terrifying things, but He has to be charismatic to because you can't be terrifying and bring people over to your side willingly and they're, and they're happy to be there. No, you have to be a charismatic person. And he exudes that in this character, but then when, when he gets dark, he gets dark, like there's nothing. In the original miniseries.

27:09 Randall Flagg to me was more comical and I don't mean that in a good way. It was like, very cheesy. Hmm, you know, I mean, it was okay by early 90 standards, but when you go back and you look at the series, that's one of the things about the series. I'm like, oh, if I could just take, you know, certain things out of the original miniseries and change it. That's like one of the main things because that Roundup. It was not scary to me. He was cheesy. Hmm morning. And it was more comical, more comical, this version of Randall Flagg. He has some humor, but it comes with that Charisma. It comes with that like deadpan humor, and he's kind of, he's kind of sarcastic, and he's kind of a smartass. But again, he's very he's very approachable. At the beginning.

28:04 Hmm. And he draws people to him and then it gets to the point where he reaches like, with his people, kind of like Messiah status, but one of the best parts of the casting of the show, yeah. Yeah because he's like that in that they cable series big little lies. He's an abusive husband, and he does that he's really sweet and Extreme. He has this Darkness to them that just comes out. Yeah, in a sec. He's really good at that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's go to the boulder free zone. So we're going to we're going to start from the end of last episode.

28:50 So the end of last episode we saw Harold and Nadine, they were finding explosives to kind of put their plan together for murdering the boulder, five and mother Abigail per row. Randall Flags orders and they get caught by Teddy, who is Harold's friend, and they being shoots him and he dies. So we pick up in this episode with Nadine and Harrell. And they are basically taking off their clothes because I, you know, there's blood on the clothes and they've they've done something with Teddys body and Harold is, you know, freaking out a little bit and they'd he's trying to calm him and keep him together and We find out is that they have taken Teddy's body to the amphitheater and set them up in a chair and made it look like a suicide. Now, I don't know about y'all but one they made him look like a suicide when they didn't shot him in the chest. So they moved his body into the chair at the Amphitheatre to make it look like he committed suicide. There's no blood.

30:04 Splatter. There's no, you know, it's just, it was one of those things where it is. There's no CSI. There. There's, there's no Crossing. Syd, I mean Larry Larry thought about it, he was like, oh, that there is, I fill this hole. So I feel that he's dubious of the whole thing's dubious about the whole thing, but he's about this doesn't seem right? And then so what happens is they still send someone out to look for Harold and of course, they find Harold and he breaks the news to Harrell about or, you know, will somebody else broke the news? He's there to confirm that Teddy is dead and how Harold has he has a good reaction at first, you know, he's kind of shaking, he's upset, he turns and he looks like he's about to cry and then he says He took the coward's way out, and then immediately goes into, you know, what he was talking about building a movie theater with all the movies. We found in the homes.

31:08 Maybe I can do that now like and language looking at him like, yeah. Okay. Before that, though. He looked like he turned and tried to summon tears and the tears are not coming. So he decided, okay. This is not going to work. So when we go the other way, you know, But you can see that Larry was just like yeah. What is Love you Till There? Larry wasn't feeling it like this? Some about this in, right? He can't he doesn't seem to be like really upset. But at the same time he doesn't seem to care either. I think well, I will say this.

31:52 Looking at it from an outsider's, point of view. Like if I didn't already know what was going on. I would probably look at Harold's reaction as one everybody already knows. He's kind of sort of he's kind of sort of an introvert and not very socially Adept. So I would kind of look at it as maybe he's processing it and he's processing it differently than other people would process it. I would probably look at it. If he's in shock because sometimes when people, you know, when people deal with that, they don't know how to react. It's kind of like one of those things where it's like there is a brains of expected reactions. It seems as though Larry is is looking like he's not showing anything in their brains are reactions isn't as in. We expect you two to be either upset. To be even if you're a person who was somewhat aloof, like Carol D is, they're still going to react a certain way, but hair is reaction is so against whatever should be on that range that instinctively Larry's like.

33:05 Cuz you know, there is good at reading people. He instinctively was like, you the look on his face. Like I don't know about this cat but I feel like when it's still would be still would be on that. And still be like, oh, They were Harold is a little bit different. So he's going to take a little bit differently. That was his friend. Larry's like yeah, that was his friend. But his reaction ain't on the spectrum of expected Reactions where he first reacted when he first talked the stew. I felt like he had an appropriate reaction and then it I think it was when he turned around and then turn back and immediately went into the movie theater thing. That was the thing that would have said that would Have been like okay, something's not right about him. Yeah, because it looked like he was going to cry and he couldn't pull up the tears.

33:59 So he went to plan B. I think he had the tears at the beginning. No, he turned around almost like to do more. He started out. I agree with you. He started out like he was going. He looked like he was going to be sad and upset and he turned around to close the deal. And the tears didn't come out, right? Hey, you like The Herald mode which was very detached being. Yeah, whatever, you know, so he was talking about opening a movie theater. Maybe I can do that. Yeah, because he's natural reaction was with Nadine. When they were changing clothes. He was that would have been if you had acted that way. They would have Larry would have accepted that because that's how you truly feels, right?

34:47 A little weird, a little And you know, and like what is this really mean? And you know, I'm kind of upset about it, but I don't really kind of know how I should really feel about it. No, because it's my fault, but then he didn't want to show that he did. It seem like he was overthinking the situation and I think Larry picked up on that but I agree with you. He started out like looking like okay, I guess. Yeah, this this is my friend and I'm sick of seems like that was we know that was your friend. Y'all are really close, but then you turned around and it's like He was thinking about okay, I guess I should cry. Okay, that's not working.

35:28 It says round. Oh, yeah, you know he was gonna have because this because that was when it seemed like he was formulating an idea. And I think that is related to the bomb. You know, if you've got in in in his memory, I'm going to show a movie in the Amphitheatre and blow everybody up. Yeah, I think that's that's why he went into that mode of. I have an idea because you know, he is who years? Yeah. Yeah, but so later on he confronts mating about shooting Teddy. He was like, you didn't have to kill him. He was like, I was his friend, I could have, you know, I could have talked to him, I could have You know, I don't know if he thought he might be able to make him understand or if he was just, you know, would have found a way to deflect, but he was like, I could have handled this, I could have handled this, he's upset.

36:23 And at first Nadine, seems not necessarily condescending to him, but she's basically, like, look, we're here for a purpose. We have to do what he tells us to do, and that's it, that was going to get in the way, and he goes to grab. Are around her neck and she uses that to kind of, you know, do her little seduction thing, you know, sweet-talk him. This is what we're supposed to do and blah, blah blah. And you know, then we're going to go to him and you know, she, you know, give them a hand job or whatever and then as they're getting ready to leave. Here Comes Frannie to find him like someone's told her told her that Harold was at the school.

37:11 So Nadine highs while she talks to Harold and she's being like really overly friendly with him, you know, she's inviting him to dinner and she's like, yeah. I saw, I heard about Teddy. I'm so sorry. Why don't you come to dinner? And it's just like, really awkward like it. Even at one point. They were standing so close together. Look, like they were about to kiss. I was Like what is going on in this scene? It's just weird, you know, but then immediately after that, she goes to Larry's house. And she's basically like hey, we invited Harold to dinner for tomorrow night and I need you to go Snoop in his house while he's at my house, what? It's like.

37:54 Yeah, like the worst the worst idea of all ideas. But then when she said she had she was like, you know, I'm just kind of worried. I feel like he was going to do something. He she was like, I know, I know it sounds ridiculous. And he was like, nope. It doesn't. I've been thinking the same thing and I was like, yeah, like I felt something when I first met him and then Joe and I was like, oh, yeah. So at this point, you kind of Wonder, is this all of them really being smart and piecing this all together, or if you know the powers that control mother Abigail or if God is kind of planting those ideas in their heads and making them. Because other than that you really Okay, I was gonna save this. Well, I think, I know, I think I know you were gonna go. I think, I think, I think the these group of this group of people were chosen for a particular reason, for different reasons mostly is because of their instincts, you know, Stu has good instincts.

38:59 He's good with people. Larry has good instincts, he is Good at reading people. Same thing with Nick, Nick has that ability to kind of see people for who they really are. And I think that is something that is sort of like this Common Thread. I don't think because a lot of I'm trying not to get off way off base here. But a lot of what most of us tend to understand about the Christian God is that he has given us Freewill like not since the Old Testament, you know, the in and he doesn't give his Visions. He doesn't kind of tell us what to do. He kind of gives us the choices.

39:48 He gives us the options and these people all have Choices, they all have options and it's up to them to make the choice in what they do. Like Larry is presented with choices and you chooses. You know, what do you want to do? Same thing with what's-her-name. She didn't have to go to a, Larry to break into Harold's house. But that's what she chose to do. And even when, you know, you haven't gotten to that yet. But when movie Abigail goes off on Nick, about the spies, that was a choice that they made and they have to deal with the consequences. That's where all of this is about. These people are making choices and we have to do with consequence.

40:30 So I don't think it's as much as God giving giving her no knowledge or giving her vision about something. It's just that she's choosing to follow her Instinct and same thing with Larry. There's something not right with Harold right now and they they have this desire to figure out what it is and they're making choices. Towards that end. Does that make sense? It does it does? Yeah, but while we're on that subject, so I'm going to talk about my other, my second character gripe for this episode. Franny Franny. I love that girl.

41:11 Oh. Let's talk about and this is another recurring theme in our podcast. Let's talk about not being able to read the room with Miss Fran goldsman. So Franny goes to invite Harrell over for dinner. She's being exceedingly friendly. He comes over for dinner the next night. She's dressed up. She's lay it out, you know, nice dishes. She's being overly friendly. Overly chatty. She gives Howard a hug when he gets there.

41:51 First of all, that's anybody's first clue, that something suspicious is going on because she has not hugged Harold ever, ever in the court. No, not ever. Okay, second. You've spent most of the first four episodes. Being such a bitch to him, correction correction back before the left. The hometown. When they were talking in the house. She did. Let her head on you. Okay, one moment.

42:37 She did seek comfort that but try to comfort him. One head not does not a friend make, so then they're doing all of this talking and they're doing all of this chattering and he's talking, you know, hair was just running off at the mouth doing this thing again. If you can't tell that Harold is being fake, something is wrong. I think Stu is just giving him, you know, the benefit of the doubt because still is oblivious to Fran he's playing. So he doesn't know that Larry is searching Harold's house. While Harold is that there's and also students giving him the benefit of the doubt because he just lost his best friend. Right?

43:21 So students, taking the position that we're doing this to kind of help come for him and let him reassuring him and let him know that were there for him. If we need if he needs us, right? So they do you do. Doesn't know what a friend is doing, right? And then here's what frame really messes up because first of all, she's kind of sort of zoning in and out of this conversation. So you see parts of the conversation where Harold is talking and she seems really engaged overly engaged again. She's not getting faking. She's being like overly everything at this point and then other parts of the conversation she's kind of zoned out. She's kind of like you can look and see that something else is on her mind or that she's Into the conversation. So how about starts telling this story about when he was eight or nine years old and his sister, Amy and friend, they take them to the carnival and, you know, he's telling them about he's telling still about them playing games and about this ice cream thing.

44:22 He's like, yeah, we went to go get ice cream. And this guy is looking at me, you know, kind of weird and their friend walks in, you know, he sees that face and he ends up giving her three ice cream. Ames and one of them had chocolate on it as she gives me the chocolate and he looks at her and he's like, right, you remember that story? You remember she was like, well, I guess I just felt bad because, you know, he gave us the ice creams for free and Harold was like, yeah, but you know what? That didn't happen because I wasn't there and as soon as he said that I was like, oops. And still is just there. Looking like he doesn't understand and she was like, what he was like, I wasn't there. That didn't happen.

45:02 And she's like, yes it did. He said, no. He said, you never took me anywhere. You never invited me to go anywhere. He was like, my sister came home and told me that story. He was like, you know, and then he goes into this little thing like, literally, at this point, friend should be able to read the room. Harold's voice is almost hostile at this point. He's like, yeah, I just sat here and told a big fat ass lie about you being nice to me and you didn't even like, you didn't even catch it, that it wasn't true, you know, and then he starts talking about his sister and how everybody loves Amy. He was like, you know, I'm kind of glad my parents went with her because they wouldn't have been able to survive without her. And instead of hearing the bitterness in his voice about being the odd child out Francis.

46:00 I miss her so much. Are you stupid? Do you not hear the hostility in voice? When he talks about his sister and then he just called you out for lying and then you take that whole conversation and everything that he just said about how his parents made him feel and how his sister made him feel and you make it about her. I was like, I was like, you know what? Hair, just go ahead and blow the house up now just like so, Our character is supposed to be smarter than that if I may not be remembering this, but I thought that was a story that that her sister was telling people that was it wasn't true.

46:54 But she was telling people that story to make Fran the good. And I know I think that the story was this happened with Amy and friend. When they went to the carnival, she friend was able to get like the free ice cream. Whatever, but Harold, wasn't there with them. Hey, hold him. The story about what happened at the carnival. Okay, but I thought Amy was going around telling people that the story that she was lying about Harold being there. And that the story had been told so many times that it's has sort of become true. I don't, I don't remember maybe that maybe that happened in the book of the original, but that's not the way it was being.

47:38 Yeah, that's not the way it was being towed. Told this time and it just don't use why I brought it up was if I'm remembering that correctly. Either from the book of this miniseries that for the original miniseries. That's another change that there. I guess they're change. Wouldn't be so bad because there's a shows, how friend wasn't really paying attention to that would have been in the original miniseries because the way it was in the original miniseries, like Fran was never mean to Harrell like, She might have had a minor annoyance about him having like the Schoolboy Crush, but that's one that I mean, first of all friend was played by Molly Ringwald.

48:19 I don't know if Molly Ringwald has it in her to be a mean hair. But her version of Frannie was like, the All-American Girl. Yeah. Yeah. Nice, you know, gives people a chance, like, she was really sweet to Harold. Even though Harold was a little bit weird. She was never mean. Two hands ever mean to him. So even the story, he told about the nail about her tilling, you know, she didn't even remember that, right? Tell him to put, you know, those reject Slater's on the nail and then I said something about it and she's like, oh, yeah, I remember so is it was just one of those and I was just like Franny is supposed to be smarter than that because like how do you go from treating somebody like there? The bottom of your shoe, like, literally that's how she treats her.

49:13 For the most part to all of a sudden, you're Chatty Cathy and inviting him over and giving him hugs and blah blah. No Harold's not stupid. That's that's the one thing that she does under it. I mean, If he hasn't shown you from the beginning, how smart and intuitive he is, you know, he was the one that came up with the plan to leave Ogunquit and to go to the CDC. He was the one who literally saved her life. He was the one who got her to Boulder. Safely Harold is not stupid by any stretch of the imagination. But yet she's treating him like he is And I have a problem with that because it's like, she's not supposed to be that dense. And that's how she's coming across in this episode, like just under, I don't know.

50:12 It just it bugs me so much. Well, obvious characters in Boulder have made poor decisions. Think of the spies was a poor decision, having Larry break into his house, you know, was a poor decision, right? Especially considering that Harold has surveillance camera. It was cameras and he's a lot more and of course, they don't know this. But this is a, this is a guy who is planning murders, not just made murder. He is planning murders. And and my thing is, if you suspect this about him, do you think they would be easy to figure it out? Like he's just going to leave stuff lying around for you to find, you know, and I don't know. I think I think I think we're bothers me and maybe you also is that everyone seems to be under estimating Harold. And like if you kick a person, you know, as much as he's been kicked and he's still surviving like he's one of the last people left on the earth.

51:25 He's gonna feel a little bit more power, you know, especially after being beat down by that dude was side of the road. He's not going to be so easily taken down anymore. Right? What's the right though? Fran? This this? I don't know at the meeting when they were talking about what they should tell, the people about the crucified guy. That's when I realized that her character was not going to be Was it was not going to be written very well when she was like, oh, you know, because we're Larry say, I mean, am I the only guy who saw that guy's eyes turned black and she's like, who knows what we saw, you know, and I'm thinking myself, really sees season complete and other than that.

52:11 Now, so, yes, she would be stupid enough to tell Larry, to breaking it, to Harold's house and try to figure out what's going on. Even though they have no idea what they're looking for. It's different if you know, You're looking for. If you know, it's again to try to find but you have no idea. I just kind of think that he's doing something. Well, maybe we can bring this house and get a clue. That's not specific enough that isn't and as soon as this skipping here, soon as Larry broke into the house, where you guys have been locked door and he can get in. You know, what? I guess. I'm not going to find what I need. Get out of here. And let me also mention. This is off the subject.

52:52 But I always have an issue when they put Brothers in this situation with Larry because he's black. Why, because what? He has experience with breaking, the people's houses. Can we can we not can we not do that? You like I do have an issue with subliminal stuff. I know I'm being overly sensitive to this but that sends out your terrible. Subliminal message to everyone watching this show that you can ago. Going to recruit the black man to break into somebody's house, and then he don't even do it. Right. He's got the flashlight shining, that goes around the house, do, okay, make it any more obvious that you've never broken into anybody's house.

53:39 But let me stop. I just want to say no, you were right. Appreciate them. Have the black man breaking in some white boys house because then all of a sudden you seen that this subliminal message, To us that. That's, that's what we do. He got on the hoodie has, I'm sorry. I'm sitting here watching on the screen right now. He's breaking into the house. He's got a hood. Onto walking around with a flashlight. Come on, guys. We got to do better. I thought that too. I really did because I was like, okay, you could have gone to. You could have gone to Glenn. You know, Glenn is not Glenn is not a 70 year old man in this version. No, he's not, you know, he could have done it but Anyway, so as you said, as Larry is clumsily going through Harold's house. He goes upstairs.

54:30 He opens up a drawer. He finds a shirt that he remembers Nadine wearing and this shirt is in Harold's drawer and he gets a call on the radio from France, saying hey, he's on his way back, get out of there now. And like literally Harold is running to the house because at this point Harold his kind of Get out. Something is going, you know, something's not, right. So he's literally running into his house. Like he's expecting to catch someone there. Okay, and as he's coming in the door now, or as Larry closes the drawer, he knocks over a book and it knocks over the chess pieces that are on Harold's dresser.

55:17 So he tries to put the pieces back in the right place. So this is Harold. We're talking about Harold who is meticulous Harold, who is probably a little OCD Harold, who shined his shoes and combed his hair and made sure everything was in place before he went to go ask this girl who literally kicked him out of her house that. Yeah. Hey. You want a ride? Cross-country with me, you know, he's very meticulous about his things. You can even see that in the house that he's staying in, everything is in place. Nothing was out of place. The door that he needed, secure was locked something. I should have told you. Don't Snoop around here, but he knocks the stuff over. He gets out just in time Harold comes into the room. He looks around, and he looks at the, he looks at the chessboard and he noticed his one of his chess pieces is facing the wrong direction.

56:22 Meticulous about that kind of stuff. They notice stuff like that. Okay? Props to Larry, forgiving Every piece back to exactly where it was. Except the night. Yeah, the night facing the wrong direction, but props to him forgetting every piece because they could have been missed but he saw it. He put everything back exactly where it was. I used to be a chess player because he probably was like, okay this needs to go here blah blah, blah, blah, blah. I mean literally that, that that can be the only thing because somebody like me who does not play chess. I would have just looked at it board and be like, fuck it. I'm doing because we did.

57:04 But at least he also sought a Deans shirt, which that's going to come back up. Yeah, it's going to give him a clue, especially considering the conversation that hair earlier. We'll get to that, too. But then Back to the dinner before Harold leaves after he has this little meltdown about Amy or whatever. He excuses himself from the table, to go to the restroom, and he goes upstairs, where the restroom is supposed to be. First of all, you want a two-story house in a luxury subdivision because I saw what the houses looked like. When they Dean walked out, looking for Joe early in the episode.

57:45 You can't tell me there's not a powder room on the on the bottom. For why would you send him upstairs? There's almost always The Powder Room on the bottom for the. Why would you, you know, oh, I need to use the restroom. Yeah, up the stairs into your what? However, it's not a, it's not unheard of houses, not having powder rooms on the first floor is not unheard of house that big. No, I'm sorry. Those are luxury homes when I live in Georgia homes like that. Okay. Well continue. Can t continue With this story. And I'll, I have a bone to pick. He goes upstairs. Those upstairs walks into their bedroom sees a teddy bear, and they focus on the teddy bear. And I thought they were going to folk. I thought they were going to take the test. He was going to take the teddy bear for something else. But no, he plants a camera in the teddy bear. No, he didn't plan the camera.

58:43 The camera was already. There was a nanny cam. So, how did he get the? How did he get the I'll have to do is open it up, open it up, and get the and get the, the school code off of the OKC, as The Nanny, cams were way after my kids were in. That's now. I don't know. Well, bomb to pick. Okay, one it has a battery. And and I'm not gonna, he must be like, I don't want to see a high level hacker, and it probably didn't take that much skill to do but who knows how long the battery happening and he can't because I'm sure he's not walking around with batteries in his pocket and active cameras batteries don't usually last, you know, more than six months at the bat best, if it is always on.

59:39 It's not going to Last six months. Well, they probably haven't been there six months yet. So what? But I think we can probably there. Yes. Before that, secondly, who puts a nanny cam in their bedroom. Well, maybe one of the maybe whoever was living in the house before. Maybe one of the maybe the spouse was suspecting another spouse of cheating and that's why it's in there. You see it all the time. Now you give his Riders too much credit. No, no. No, you're not gonna do that to me. You, I would I would have been, I would have been more likely to believe him bringing cameras and planting them as opposed to him fine.

1:00:25 You nanny, cam that he can hijack and add to his Wi-Fi network because Vinny like, okay. Well then how far? I just have a lot of questions because we've got some Wi-Fi cameras around my house to see the in Blackwell house. His house is far enough away to walk. For him to walk in just a few minutes, but is it Wi-Fi that strong to pick up that Nanny cam, right? Because if not been in any cameras on the network, he was able to hack that Network and why isn't their work still up at the house and wives? I just have a lot of questions. We are in a post-apocalyptic world and my scenario would have made more sense.

1:01:12 Here. Scenario would have made more sense, the camera in the bed, but, but the camera was on. Dear. Yeah, I'm just saying I have I don't know there's a lot of stuff to kind of like about this episode and a lot of stuff to be like, what the hell, what we are thinking, like what we, we not ask questions watching this. I'm sorry. Go ahead, Casino. You're you're you're right. You're right. But any and then he Cam and the bedroom, who does that? I'm telling you somebody was cheating before before they got you know, off by the superflu. Somebody was cheating.

1:01:55 They was trying to catch somebody bringing somebody to the bedroom. That's what it was because other than that, you're right. I don't see why they would have that in there. Unless it was one of those things where they have the nanny camera. They keep it in the room. And then when they, you know, when they go out or when they have the babysitter, they put they put the bed there before the babysitter gets there. But that seems like too much work. It's too much work. So you're doing it either. Mental heavy lifting for the show. It seems we've been doing that since the first episode. Yeah. Yes, it's a lot of work. This shows a lot of work. Okay, so let's talk about Nadine. So Nadine at the beginning of the episode, when we first see her, she's having a dream.

1:02:43 It's like night time. She's sleeping Joe sleeping. She's having a dream and this dream, and I won't even call it a flashback, but it's actually the only flashback we get in this episode, which is great, because we're not doing a whole bunch of whiplash mess going back and forth, back and forth, but she's having a dream, and it's basically her. Her and Larry kind of making out or kissing some. I'm guessing they almost hooked up at some point on the road and then knowing what I know about Larry, that might be true. That might be true. And, you know, if you think about it, when they first got to Boulder and they went to the house, he asked her, he said, is this what you want?

1:03:28 He said I can crash down on the couch. It wouldn't, it wouldn't have to mean anything. So obviously at some point, something there. Happen and then it kind of fizzled off, probably because of her, you know what to say for yourself for flag. But while she's having this dream flat comes to her and in her dream and he says, oh the old mother's magic is wearing off, because I can come to you now, you know, and I can see things now, so he comes to her in the dream and they have a conversation because she, he said something about oh, you were dreaming about your little toy. You You know, talking about Larry and she makes a comment about, I don't understand. Why, why do you care?

1:04:12 You gave me the herald and he was like, hold up. I ain't give you the nobody. You know, he makes that very clear but then he also confirmed something we discussed in the last episode. He basically tells her you belong to me, you have, since I found you 12 years old years old. I thought about you when I saw that. Go, here we go. Wasn't I, your friend wasn't I there for you? Do we not have this conversation when we talked about this? The last show that we did about him coming to her as a child as opposed to in the books. When she's a little bit older is this and then for it to be to be confirmed, right here.

1:05:00 I was just like and and I was thinking about it and even if We instead of assuming even worse, we can do at best. He was just grooming her. But even grooming her at 12:00 is kind of disgusting. Terrible grooming, her to be your bride when she comes of age as like, Terrible this step again, real life example, but I don't want to do that. But yeah, that is, but that is even even being a change for her being in college. It's like why we know that he's we do. I'm not going to rehash, we talked about before but we know that he's a terrible evil person. We know that he's evil, you don't have to make her 12 to reiterate the point, right?

1:05:54 We know that he has sway in influence over people. So coming to her in college, would have been just as effective a more seamless creepy coming to her at 12:00. Mhm. It would have made more sense. She's saving herself for the perfect person. Right? And he comes to her and college and he's his perfect person, and it would also go along with her already. Being sort of, I don't want this, use were bad, but you could've at least because of me, like, well she was going to be on his side. Anyway. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know. Cuz I'm trying to remember, I think the way it was in the books.

1:06:35 I think when she was younger and she was in position. Is where she might have had sex like as a teenager, whatever. I don't think it was necessarily him that came to her. But I think she said something about she always had a feeling that this was not what she was supposed to do. She was supposed to be saving herself for something again. I haven't read the book in like years so I don't remember but I don't remember it being, it wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't him? Because he didn't come there until she was in college. So but anyway, so this kind of leads. To a conversation, she has later on. So she's looking for Joe. She's trying to give him some lunch and he's not in the house. So she goes to look for him and she finds him at mother Abigail's house and he's sitting there and he's playing the piano and you know, she fusses at him for leaving without telling her and she's like even some other Abigail's.

1:07:27 You can't come here and mother Abigail is like, oh, you know, we were just you know, I'm sorry. We were just having a conversation. She's like he talked to you and she was like, well, there's talking and there's talking So this is one thing I do want to say, as far as Jose character, you know, I know we've mentioned before the fact that he's nonverbal right now and we've made, we've made assumptions that he is autistic. I don't think he's actually autistic just going by the things that mother Abigail says, I think he's just traumatized and his nonverbal in this is a symptom of PTSD. You know, she said something about You know because Nadine says, is there anything that I shouldn't, you know, did he say anything? I should know like what his real name is and mother Abigail says no, we didn't get that far.

1:08:18 She said but you know, there's some you know, there's some things a child should not see, you know, he's been through some things, a child should not have to go through and that's what he's seeing some things that no child should say. Yeah. Yeah, so that makes me think that he is. I know that he's just traumatized but obviously we have some clues about him. We know he's good at spotting people who are not necessarily good, because he has this thing about Harold, you know, and that could have something to do with whatever it was that he witnessed while he was out on his own, before Nadine found him. We know that he's musically inclined because he picked up a guitar and played something back to Larry perfectly when Nadine finds him that much.

1:09:08 ER Abigail's, he's playing the piano and he's playing like he's played before. So that gives us a little bit more of a clue to his character. But you know, Nathan and and mother Abigail have a conversation and the conversation is about choice and mother Abigail. I think she kind of lets Nadine know. That she knows about flag without letting her know that, you know, she basically says, you know, we all have a choice until we don't, you know, she was like, everybody has a choice to do what they want to do, to be who they want to be. Yeah, because mother Abigail with know, if whether or not she had been in their dreams. Exactly, right, so, and that that's mother. I think instead of her calling her out on that mother abbess. Gail is taking that to mean that she chose to be there and they got on that conversation because mother Abigail comments about how she cares about Joe and how she takes care of them. And she's like, well, I really didn't have a choice. Did I?

1:10:15 And she was like, everybody always has a choice. She said, you made a choice to take care of him. You made a choice to stick with him and you guys take care of each other and it's a beautiful thing and you know, she's basically I think at this point trying to give Nadine some hope that Look, your life doesn't have to go down this path that you are on. You can make a choice to change and because of that Nadine finds herself right after Larry gets the call from friend to go to Harold's house as he's walking out the door and they deem is, you know, coming to his doorstep and she's basically throwing herself at him like she wants him to have sex with her and he's a little confused because he was like, you didn't want Want this before.

1:11:02 Like what's what happened? What's going on? And she's like, you know, she very plainly explicitly I need you to fuck me. He was like, this is not how you usually talk. This is not you what's going on and you know, he makes it a point to say I don't want to do this and you have regrets in the morning. I don't want, you know, I don't want this to be. I don't want to take advantage of you. What's going on. Tell me he Jen, you can tell he genuinely cares for her. But she's doing this out of desperation like she feels like if she has sex with Larry that's going to break whatever whole random flag has on her and this is the first time that we see that she seems scared, you know, or is trying to change her fate. And she basically says to him, she was like, this is the only way.

1:11:51 This is the only way he'll let me go. And Larry again is confused. He's like who? And then of course at the end of the episode, when he's in Harold's house. These mating shirt, he's going to automate. He's going to think is Harold. Mmm, you know, that's about it. That's about to become an issue because he's going to think that he is forcing Nadine to stay with him or something, or do something. So. And that's probably what's going to be kind of the match that that starts. You know, Harold's plan in Boulder. Okay, so, I just wanted to say a couple of things about Larry real quick. So Larry II want to give Larry a little bit of crazy. I know he was really trying not to do anything because he had something else he needed to do.

1:12:40 Because this was, when he was on his way out to go break into her parents house, because I would like to think that if he didn't have that task before him. He would have told her, you know what, I'm not going to do that with you right now. But if you come in, you can sit down and we can talk about it because I think that's what she really needed at that moment. I mean, I know where she thought she wanted, but I think knowing Larry and knowing how he normally would be, he normally probably say, you know, what coming here. Let's talk about this and maybe one thing was late to another, who knows? But at least I like to think that he would have. He would have at least Tried to talk to her and figure out what's going on with it, because obviously something is terribly wrong.

1:13:28 And then she also said to him, you are the only person in the world. I trust you. I trust. So yeah, so then he started out the conversation with what is this? Not something that wait till tomorrow because I got something else, I need to do, you know that that is not going to. It's not going to help the situation at all. Right, but he tried to recover the say, you know, this is not true. You know, this this is what is going. All that you did ask her that, but I really think he would have a sort of come in and sit down and talk talk about it because she, she seemed like that there was something really going on. He seems to really care about her. Yeah, he does. And, to be honest with you. He almost seems sort of out of character for him because it is almost as if, I think he would have rather have talked to her, then go break into Harold's house. Yeah.

1:14:19 Definitely. I think, I really do think that. It's sort of that sort of those that and him breaking into the house of the two things that kind of put me off this episode. It's like Him not actually really talking to her. This person that you spent time with on the road that just said, she trusts him. That is basically saying she needs to get away from somebody and he doesn't take the time out to find out who it is. So he go breaking someone's house then just that kind of bothered me and you know, there are a lot of things to like about this episode with there are more things to dislike and and I hate to see, you know, the person who lives with me, not really related to me by marriage while we watch the show because he listens to us in the background. It's like, you don't like the show. So why are we wasting our time?

1:15:22 That's not the point? Had enough of DragonCon animals. All this has been, somebody, she knows knows. That's her. We still we're going to watch it because on some level, it is entertainment. There is some value there as entertainment. It can be bad and entertainment, but it's entertainment. Nonetheless. I'm a fan of the stand. I can sit there and say there's some things I don't like about it. If you really pay attention like our listeners are doing, hopefully they can hear as point out things that we like, we do that, but we also point out that he's better bad and there's a lot of bad about this and there is good, but the good is enough to keep me watching it, you know, a lot of these people we talked about this early either the characters, they get enough to keep us watching it, but the Larry thing, I'm like hot and cold with his life.

1:16:33 One hand. He's like the best can see I've got in the show and then the other hand, y'all do some stupid myths. Like this. That's completely turns me off. Yeah, you know, and I like I'm going to repeat this because I want everyone to hear this. I really think that the character that we have known up until this episode would have, had her come in and talk to her, find out what's going on with her because that, that is the kind of person he was because he wouldn't have let It really kill herself if he was awake. No, he was wrong. He was wrong for leaving her but that was about self-preservation. But if he saw her as desperate as she was, maybe he didn't really notice it.

1:17:16 But if he had known that, it's what she was going to do. He would have talked to him like no. No, we're in this together. We're going to figure this out because you wouldn't. Yeah, he's a same person who took his mother out of the Hospital put her in his bed and sat there with her, as she died, right, you know, the same person that went outside to the guy that wanted to kill him and tried to help him find Comfort, right? Yeah. That's who that is. Who Larry is Larry is not the guy who's going to blow off the friend of his who's in desperation mode. So you can go break into somebody's house.

1:17:59 And we're especially not after going through what he went through with Rita. Yeah waking up to find out. She killed herself. I mean you can see Nadine was desperate at this point, you know, the fact that she was trying to get you to do. The one thing that she was like that she had told you before she couldn't do. Nobody makes that kind of turnaround a list are scared or, unless they're being pressured, and she look like, like, when she walked in his house. She looked like something the cat had drugged, and she was, she was her hair was stringy.

1:18:41 She was shaking. She was, she just looked horrible. She looked like somebody with the weight of the world on her shoulders and It was basically that she was, like, I have a choice. I can change my fate if I do this one thing. I can be free. Hmm. But it's like now and I mean, did you okay? And I will say this again, don't then don't particularly care for her but ever heard, right? But in this and don't usually care for her acting. But in this episode, especially that scene, I felt for her like when she turned around and walked out of Larry's house and she was like, I'll be fine.

1:19:27 I mean just Monotone voice. She was walking like a zombie. Like she had no. It was, it was heartbreaking to watch her, walk out that door knowing what that, what fate, that was going to resign her to. Yeah, that was a really, really good piece of acting that she did and I've seen it really was. It was the first time that she's sort of summon that Loris Andrea. San Giacomo. It was such a great Nadine in the original. It was like, this was the first time I actually saw Solve the character of me being, like, in all her glory, you know, that pain that she has and that, that desperation that she has fy'y psychic. Finally saw what I was looking for, in a character and see how I give her props for that.

1:20:24 That was really good. Yeah. She was good in that. I know you like. But it's Amber Heard though. So let's get the one care. So we haven't really talked much about this episode. Next mother Abigail. So we did mention her a little bit earlier because she has found out that they sent spies and she is like whoo. She was like, did you feel it? Haha. Did you feel when she was fussing at Nick like that poor baby. He was just sitting there like, with his head hung, like he didn't do nothing. You can say, And there's nothing. I mean, literally, there's nothing. He can say, there's nothing he can do. When, when the old folks talking about having your ears boxed. He was asking boxes.

1:21:16 Like, that's what that means is by seeing his, you know, whatever, I've done to offend you. Please give me, you know, please give me the means to atone for a. Tell me what you would have me. Do you know? Because she's taking this is her responsibility as her responsibilities. Like, they're supposed to be following her and doing what he is commanding, and they've done something behind her back. They've done something against her wishes. So now she feels like she has to be the one to repent for it and as she's doing this praying, the wolf comes to her.

1:21:57 Now, I would say that that wolf kind of scared me a little bit. He was just sitting there. He's just growling and she's just like and and then the next thing we know, ray goes to her house and there's a note on the door and she's basically telling them that she's left. Don't come looking for her and it's just kind of like wait a mother, a go Andrei. Poor thing. She's just like screaming in the streets for her and you know, she's calling on the radio. Hey, do you have eyes on mother Abigail? Hey, cendre up to her house to look for. She was like damn it. I am ready. You know and of course Stewart and Franny here this while they're making out in the bedroom and hair with his creepily watching on the nanny cam.

1:22:46 And you know, he hears that mother Abigail is missing and then he has this really creepy smile on his face and then it cuts to black but that smile at the end. he looked hella creepy like, This do here. He does, I did not really care for him too much at the beginning because I felt like Carol was supposed to be a more nuanced character. He was supposed to be kind of awkward from the beginning and then kind of gradually going into that psychopath phase. And this guy has been giving me psycho vibes from the beginning from the beginning. But now at this point in the story, it works like this is where Harold is To be right now, especially you just found out that, you know, the girl that you love, she basically set you up so that somebody can spying your house and it's just getting to the point now where he's like, okay, you know what? I'm about to kill this bitch and this is what these are the Vibes that I'm getting from him now and it's appropriate now, so I'm feeling Harold louder as a character. Now this is where we're supposed to be with him. Yeah.

1:24:00 So, you know, like you said there was some good things about the f. Pisode there was not good things. Again the and the best wax at the decimation of Dana and Friends characters in this episode. It's just that that's just that's just going to be that's going to be the one of the big things that bothers me about this series because those two characters in these two settings should have been so much more than they were. Dana is specially friend. I can I can get especially if Fran is Not I can put her behavior down as to the whole she's not used to being fake type thing or she's not used to being you know, she's not used to subterfuge or you know trying to do that kind of thing.

1:24:48 So I can I can kind of sort of say I still like the way it came off but I can kind of sort of see it. Dana just character. Assassination is just yeah, just well. Yeah, but I mean well we don't have to worry about your character. Anymore. So, sees sees gone, you know, we don't have to worry about that. At least she died in a nice outfit. She did. She was looking fly. I can fly. But I do want to talk about one of the great things about this. Episode is there was no time jumps none. There were no times up none. Absolutely none. No time job. So that that that lip lash.

1:25:30 Yeah, no times. It's no hour ago. Time jobs, right? Um, but but I will say, you know, again speaking with the person who gives me I'm related to by marriage. She told me, you know, we had a discussion about the time jumps and and she's like because we're watching American Gods plug for upcoming show. We're going to be talking about American Gods. So American Gods, they also do flashbacks and I was trying to say that the flashbacks, American Gods arm, Like character filler. They give you insight into the characters. And she's like, nobody does the same thing, is tells you how the characters ended up where they are now. I'm like, well, sort of but not really like we don't really know.

1:26:23 They're not telling us where the characters, how the characters that telling a separate story of how, the carriage is all ended up in one place, giving us information about the characters like they given us a history lesson. Yeah, like how they came to be not how the ended up hooking up with. Z and even when they do give us flashbacks, like if you think about last season season 2, we did get some flashbacks from like when Shadow moon was younger and with his mother, but the way that they do, their flashbacks makes sense within the confines of this kind of sponsor, the story follows, right?

1:27:07 It's a flow to it. It's not like it's not something that's so jarring. I mean that you have to sit there and look like what the hell just happened, you know? Yeah, and I was also saying that they weren't telling a separate story. Like the reason why the flashbacks in to me understand this withdrawing is that they are following a different plot than the plot of what we're supposed to be watching currently. Like it's two separate Stories being Told about to serpent times and and because your prison story is structured the same way as a flashback stories. Like we're seeing different characters, different points in time.

1:27:58 All this journey to get to Boulder. We're seeing the same characters in the prison point in time in Boulder if the same story. But in two different times and sometimes in three cuz you'll sometimes the three kids you get. - exactly more like lost if everyone can can bear with me for a second. If you go back to Los lost, sort of did the same thing with their flashbacks. It was sort of a blend of the two. They were giving information about the characters, but they were also showing you have the characters ended up. There were times. They were showing you how the characters ended up on the island. And they were showing you how characters met each other before they got to the That was more, like, what we get in the stand, but they did it so much more effectively and lost because they were also giving you details and information about the characters. And a lot of times the stuff that was in the past was relevant, was important to the story. They were telling in the episode. I wasn't getting that really in the stand. It seems like they filmed the season. In episode 1 through 8, and then they chopped it up and it is what it felt.

1:29:19 Like. That's what it feels like. Because now we're at the midpoint of so 5 where we don't get any, because of this point. Everyone is there, you know, we had assumed that they were show us how Vegas came to because I thought maybe they were just start with Vegas, which they did. And that the next two or three episodes will be about Vegas with flashbacks on how all these people ended up there. I mean they feel they go there but it doesn't seem like that's going to be the case. It doesn't. Yeah, honestly with the white they introduced New Vegas in this episode.

1:30:00 I don't think we need it because we pretty much can tell that most of these people who are there. They are there. Because I mean he even said it in his speech. He said, you know, The the people of the old world, they tried to tell you that sex was bad, that that violence was bad. And he was like, and it's not and those are the people that are there with him. The people who Revel in this? I mean, when Dana was brought out to the floor to, you know, with Lloyd and Julie to see everything. I mean, there's a full-fledged orgy going on, everywhere in the hotel every time you see them going. Going down the elevator.

1:30:45 And in the next elevator, next to them. There's a couple having sex in a glass elevator going up and it's just kind of like it's all over the place. Like literally people when you say, people are just having sex in the streets. No, they're literally having sex in this to me beer, like, everywhere. It was like it reminded me of even like Eyes Wide Shut or like the orgy scene in. The Witcher it was just like everywhere everywhere everywhere. And just random people like walking. I'm bored with you. Let me go to this person. Next here and it was just random walking through.

1:31:25 Walk you through one a little fingers brothels. Exactly, exactly. And then on top of the orgies and everything taking place like right there in the middle, at the bottom. You've got a fighting pit. And instead of just fighting to the deaths there, literally. Hacking each other to death. So, you've got legs over here in arms over here and torsos over here. And it's just like and then you've got people even having sex in the midst of that. I think, you know, in the same on the same floor. So it's just like, we already know what kind of people he's attracting and obviously, if they're not in Boulder then that's where they are.

1:32:07 I don't really think we need a back story at this point if we already have Lloyd's. A backstory. He seems to be the most important person being and we sort of got an idea about Julie right now. We may get some of her backstory but at this about it, I don't think that's important. Like I want to see what they're doing now because now you've got Dana dead. You've got Tom there who may be figuring out that it might be time for him to leave. Who knows the judge is not there yet, but they know she's on her way. So if we're going by the cannon and the old store, she's not going to make it. She's not even going to make it to Vegas. So you've got mother, Abigail who has disappeared. So now, of course, she told them not to find her. So what are they going to do?

1:33:00 They're going to go. Go look for her before. Yeah, I go look for her and then we still have the, you know, the main characters they have to journey to Boulder. We have to have, I mean, we have to have these different little things happen and we've only got what four episodes, or %. Yeah. So there's this, there's a lot of ground to cover for the next round. So, I'm afraid, I'm afraid not only of waste going to get cut, what's going to get changed? And the way in, which is going to be changed is, is is my fear and, and just a little insight. I know we don't talk about other reviewers, but I know there were a lot of people, a lot of reviewers got this guy, these episodes early. Most of them that I've seen have said that this is where every this episode episode 5.

1:33:56 I've is where everything kind of went off the rails. So we will see will see coming up but that that has been the best but that's been the consensus for the most part. Get out now, so we gotta finish that but for the most part the consistencies this is where everything went off the rails. And I tried not to watch your views because I want mine to be pretty untainted, but like you said between Dana and Franny, and And really just Dana there. That whole thing. Just her whole Arc just seems completely and utterly ridiculous. I just like, yes, her story up.

1:34:42 Yeah, and then Larry and the dean their whole thing. Is this so strange and weird. It's his at I really really hopefully I want to say things get better but I'm not I'm not, I'm not counting on it. I wonder what the numbers are for them. I wonder how many people started watching your hands have just abandon it and I wonder, I wonder what the numbers are, like and I know Amazon is Never Gonna never going to release that information. Yeah. I am people who, when I posted like checked in on Facebook that I was watching it. I've had a few people be like, yeah, we started it copped out after episode one like one person.

1:35:27 He was like Yeah, my mom started watching it. She didn't even get through the whole first episode. She hated it. She hated absolutely everything about it. She refused to watch the rest of it. And then I do know, a few people who are still watching it, but they don't like it. Like there was a actual thread I think a couple of times I've tweeted about something and literally everybody abundant the Tweet have been like, yeah, you're right. I don't like this either and I have not I'm not really seen anybody who is watch this. And said that they loved it. Not if they were fans of the original Source material. I have not said, I literally, and I'm not exaggerating that.

1:36:07 I've not seen anybody yet, you know, you know, that I'm friends with. Yeah. I love it. You know, you and I for years, he'll talked about if you if you was just starting to show you got to give it about four or five episodes before you can pass judgment. It's been five episodes. I'm passing sugar is kind of bad. It really is, is that me what I was expecting and I was really hopeful for this one because, you know, We live in a time now where almost everything in Hollywood is a remake or reboot?

1:36:56 Like there seemed to be no original ideas coming out of Hollywood. Now, for the most part, a lot of things have been rebooted. A lot of Stephen King things, especially the last few years. I mean, they re done it, they've redone pet cemetery, you know, other things have come out, and it's kind of like, I like the originals and I understand the reason for remakes. I mean this day and age that we are not the only ones to do remakes. I mean they've been doing remakes almost since the history of Hollywood, you know, um, sometimes the remakes work, you know, sometimes they don't this one.

1:37:41 I was really, really looking forward to it just because I wanted to see what they would be able to do with the The story with new technology with new grafic, CGI, whatever. Because like you said, there were some things about the 94, like the whole hand of God thing that thing was, that was horrible. It was really looking forward to like, okay. I want to see how they're going to improve on this. And there are some things that I really, really do like about this show. Like I said, as far as casting Alexander, Skarsgard, perfect, as Randall, Flagg Catman, The mirror perfect as jewelry, you know playing Larry undo it. Yeah, he's great.

1:38:26 Um, James Marsden is growing on me is too but I don't feel like we cease to enough in this version for me to be like, oh, yeah. I absolutely hate him. I absolutely love him. Like he's kind of a is too plain. He's a yeah. And the other really gotten any Glenn and we're not getting near as enough. It near enough.

1:39:08 Nick know, Nick was like a main character in the original and Rob Lowe was great as Nick. And he's one of my favorite. He was evil. He was one of my favorite characters in the book is well when I get enough of him and I feel like at this point with only four episodes left. Those are some of the characters that we really should be seeing more of now. I will say this, we do know that still has a big part in towards the end of the, towards the end of the show, so we may see more of students care to if they hold true to the source material. Material.

1:39:49 But at this point, I can't really make much of a judgment because he's been very neutral in this. Yeah, and it's almost as if for me, the only thing keeping the train going, are the actors, you know, working with with a god, they seem to be through their acting performances. Just carrying us through. Yeah, and that seems to be the case. This is and maybe Amber Heard is kind of helped the saddle stupid with his last episode. You heard me we've heard characterization of Nadine because again, they really screwed it up with Dana.

1:40:32 I mean and like I said, I like the actress that was playing her, but it was just this episode felt so unlike that character. Like I would, I'm sorry. I would have picked her out first day. You see the only person walking around asking about Randall, Flagg. Oh, something about you, ain't right and light like Lloyd said, Captain trips happened. Long time ago. Where have you been until now, I was thinking she could. It just been honest. Well, I was, you know, trudging along and I got kidnapped by some crazy pervert who raped me every night. And I finally was able to kill his ass and this is where I ended up being that would have made the for a better story because of the like, wow, that's what made them like.

1:41:26 Oh, how did you kill him? I bashed his brains and there was nothing left of his hair. Oh, yeah. Come on, let's go party. That would have made so much more sense. And Julia could have like oh, this is my girl, you know, because that she's all about. That and Julie was feeling her anyway, Julie. I think it was in to Dana more than she was in before but you know, but I thought that was a wasted opportunity right there just have her to just to embellish her truth a little bit. That's how seeing of this I after all. This. Should I even if you got some stuff, you know, if you want saying something do that, you know, lean into it.

1:42:12 You got to lean in lean into that decision. You made follow through. So we'll see how this we only got another month and it'll be all over. We move on to bigger better. Things will start talking about American Gods and we'll put this all behind this. Yeah, but I you know, halfway through I have to say I'm probably more disappointed than I am pleased with what they've done so far, so, I don't know. Let's just Let's just say, okay. We've hit that for episode 5 episode hump and from here on out. They're going to blow our minds out the water. I mean, I don't know if I should go that route because then I'll be more disappointed.

1:43:02 If it doesn't come out that way especially given what you've said the critics are saying, but I kind of there's a part of me that really wants to have hope that this is going to be better. Anthony shaking his head like nope. We're kills my with. We kills it for me and this is going to sound like, out of left field. Is where the hell is my VIP ago? Like, when, what where are you? We got four episodes left and, and Now, I remember in the original story. She left because as she said, she had to go make her Penance to God.

1:43:47 I know she but for some weeks and then she came back and she told she told the boulder, five what God said they had to do. And then after that, I believe she dies, so we probably will only see what be in, maybe one more episode. But I mean, we didn't eat, we didn't even get enough of mother. Gail and know. And I think that's, that's from going, like you, I don't know. I guess you took the main characters of the show and you and you relegated them to secondhand neutral or just kind of almost throw away characters. Because again, we haven't really seen much Nick and Nick Nick was a huge huge, huge part of the book and of the original Because at this point, it's really a show about Nadine Harold and Franny.

1:44:49 And and Larry that is your core. That's it. Right? Everybody else. Derek. They did not even co-stars, you just background characters. They were a episode 5, your shows really if you really want to be me and crew, it's is really the herald and Franny show everything revolves around here on their Franny, with his side story that's happening in Vegas. That's it. This all you've given us and it's one thing that this show is making me want to do. Now.

1:45:30 I really do want to go. Back and reread the book and re-watch the original series. There is a series, I think Utopias are you to find YouTube YouTube. So, I think at this point, once I'm done with this, I'm going to go back and revisit those because You know, the the original miniseries, it had its faults, but I feel like it was a truer adaptation than most of his stuff is, you know, and I remember a lot of the book being put on that screen for those. What was it? Six and a half hours hours.

1:46:11 Maybe I do. Eventually want to go back and watch that especially if this one doesn't turn out. To be what I wanted to be. I'm going to need something to cleanse, my palate me back into and put me back into the mindset of this. Being one of my favorite all-time stories ever. I just don't think this that this miniseries is doing it for me. I think they just stopped doing Stephen King adaptations. I think this is just stop. There was some good ones like The Shining but that was Stanley Kubrick. He was He hates that, but he wasn't going to mess it up there. Either.

1:46:54 You me. Stephen. Yeah, Stephen King. Good like Nathan. Yeah. Well that's about egos. No one's ego is larger was larger than Stephen, King's been in Stanley Kubrick's and you're not going to tell Stanley Kubrick what he's going to do in his movie. That's number one and Stanley Kubrick's. Version of the signing is better than Stephen King's version of The Shining. Because when he was able to do The Shining, And be involved in it. It wasn't nearly as good as the original and that's because of Stanley Kubrick either. I mean, there's there's there's a difference between I'm speaking like, I'm an expert in Authority obvious, but taking a book and put it on the screen.

1:47:37 I'm sure it's not easy thing to do, but you're going to have to have someone pretty good to do it and to do it, right? It's like there's some things it's just not going to. This in the book second work on screen, but there's some things I can do on screen this kind of going to work. You know, I mean, the firm by John Grisham is the excellent book. The movie has a different ending in the book. And guess what, is almost better than the book the movie is really, really good. I mean, we can go on and on maybe we should do an episode about our favorite book to film at their patients.

1:48:17 And some point, but like it's not an easy thing to do. And the reason why I had high hopes for the stand is Nine episodes, you know, nine hours. You got you got a lot of time to do it, right, you know to is a lot of characters, a lot of story. You got nine episodes, you know, you can do it. No commercials. Well, it does have commercials, but you got a solid hour. Well, well, yeah, Amazon throws, commercial Co okay. Okay. Yeah, see, I watch mine on CBS access. But yeah, yeah.

1:48:57 And I mean, even if you were going to do this, why stop at night, just make it a one season show. Give it a full 10 episodes. You could have thrown a little bit more with the extra 60 Minutes. Hmm. Yeah. Hey, you in the path, to relegate these. To is to basically just being Side characters, especially student, you know, you started out strong and being just kind of abandoned in some, for the remaining episodes. But like I said, he's character picks up his involvement towards the end of the story. So, yeah, but been hoping that'll pick up in the show as well.

1:49:38 Yeah, but people who are still fans after that first episode we'll bill bill just like well damn, he's not hitting it so Why ever go past episode 4, episode 3 when he's hardly even in it. Yeah, you know, I mean and and I don't like Carol. So people who think Harold is a creep. Why would they keep watching it? Like, oh, he's terrible. He's terrible, but he's on the screen 50% of the time I'm done with this and they stop watching it. That that that's what happens. You know, Franny. Oh my God, she treats her like crap. Why are we seeing them all the time? They're not occur. Coat off. I'm done with it. Oh Larry.

1:50:18 That's a nice guy. Wait, no, Larry this episode. I'm done. Yummy. There's a this lot of places where people would just jump ship because you're not giving us, you know knows a lot of the characters and I understand what you're saying. You're going to give this more stew later, but you you it's almost like the pacing is such that you don't get enough of it. Anything. It's like you gave me a plate with a whole bunch of food, but I like, I like the Thousand Foods. So I'm going to get like a little tiny droplet of each piece. That's not satisfying, you can feel me up and I'll be bursting.

1:50:59 But there wasn't anything else, the things I truly enjoyed. I didn't get enough of right. Looks like Thanksgiving you ever go to Thanksgiving and your eyes are so big and you see all the food in like, okay. I'm just gonna get this Boon for the greens. Before the potato salad a little spoonful of potato souffle. A little piece of turkey, a little piece of ham, a little piece of fried chili, you sure your plate up with all this food. You don't enjoy any of it. Yeah. That's how I feel. The stand is Thanksgiving dinner at Grandma's house where she could everything.

1:51:41 Yeah. And not enough all the same time. Why don't you want to enjoy it? You want to delete the things about it that you like, but there just isn't enough Fair Justice. Well, I have four more episodes. And at this point, it's too late for us to pull out. Like we got, we got to see it through now, so I will see you through. Oh, good or bad. We're here for the ride. So, I think at this point, we said all we needed to say and we'll just pick this up next week, for the next episode.

1:52:25 So for now, that's it for our show. You can find us online at www.haddadhyundai.com., We are on social media on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at fandom hybrid. You can listen to us on Spotify, Apple podcast, Google podcast Stitcher. I heart radio and other major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening. We hope to join the conversation next time.