Arthurian Legends Series: Cursed - Fandom Hybrid Podcast #210

0:25 Was a pirate. Welcome back to another episode of The Phantom hybrid podcast. This is how I co and I am here with Anthony, Mike and Lori and we are doing something a little bit different. Today, we have talked for like the last several months about wanting to talk about Arthurian Legends just because a lot of the shows that we watch, have you the referenced it or it's based off an Arthurian Legend. And you know we just kind of kicked around the idea of hey what are we just like take one show or one film a month for this year and just talk about different Arthurian Legends and how they relate to each other or do you know which ones we like?

1:08 Which ones we didn't like and yeah, that was an idea that we actually decided to stick with. So this is the first of our Arthurian Legend series and we are going to talk about a show that is near and dear to our heart where We like to show or not and that is cursed, cursed was a show that premiered on Netflix back in 2020, it only ran for one season but it was one of the very first shows that we covered when we started this podcast. So we figure go back and take a look at curse and let's talk about what we liked and what we didn't like. And apparently it has not aged well for Anthony because Anthony was Like I don't like it, although I think he was just messing with Mike about it.

1:58 So anyway, sister just a little bit, just a little bit, really. Did you go back and re-watch it or is it just as your remember, you just kind of like oh they couldn't did this better? I didn't really like well, well earlier today I started watching the first episode just to see there's a oh God that's started skipping. And I started going through a bunch of different episodes that I started remembering. You know I know I know there's some good things. There are more bad things for me. Okay. Yeah, the things that I didn't like kind of outweigh the things got liked okay.

2:41 Because you know we I don't think we really went back and just talked about the whole thing, you know, the whole series as a whole, maybe, as I think it, I think at the time that we finished the series, Ruiz we didn't know a like we didn't find out for a long time that they weren't going to renew it for a second season. I think it was like maybe six or seven months after the first season concluded that or that we finish talking about it that we found out that it wasn't being renewed. So I think we probably were looking at it through maybe rose-colored glasses because we were like, I mean, the way that it ended we were like, okay? They set it up for a good second season, Bob Lon Yeah, we never got it sub still man. I'm still pissed about that, doggone it, that's ridiculous. I promise it actually got mean I still love that show. It's like I got a chance to kind of skim through the episodes. I'm like, I still really like the show. I still really hate for the Cardin is still really interesting how they did King Arthur, like making him kind of a theme / kind of Korean and I like how they did it Through The Eyes of nim way.

3:59 Instead of just doing it through, Arthur, going through, whatever he's doing or going through Merlin going through what he goes through his like a this another way to look at it and that's what still really, really interesting to me. And that's why I really liked it. Well I liked the concert like the concert bad light. Hmm the acting was was decent but the writing kind of stuff. If the special effects I realized we're just not great. Well, I think we kind of said that when it aired to like the van started, taking everything with arriving build some of the stuff like just skipping around on my, they really did that and some of the geography didn't work and I started paying attention to how they were getting around and then as it was, The more and more I thought about it.

4:56 I just know really, you be a really specific right now? Yeah, I need you to look at the general picture. Okay. I'm looking at the general picture of your future, you'll be reading on. You be a real specific being nitpicky about stuff. My rose-colored glasses have cracks in them. I am I missing. I'm halfway between the two of you on this because I went back and I looked a little bit. I got it on now and it doesn't hold up as well. If we hadn't watched out and vote, okay? At the same time, I still love the the world, the scenery, the idea of them away. It's halfway for me, okay, I'm just glad that they didn't do it the way that when I first looked at it, I was like, did they make author a girl?

5:45 I was like, oh God, please tell me. They didn't know. I'm glad they didn't didn't go that route because I don't think I think it just would have been It just, you would have been kind of cheap story been entirely entirely different story, and I just don't think it would have held that. I just, I just don't think that would have been a been a good idea. But that's like, I'm I really like the way they did. Yeah. So for those of you who have no idea what we're talking about cursed is the story. It is based off of a young adult literature book by the same name it. It tells the story of King Arthur before he became King Arthur, but it does it from a different perspective. So author is actually a secondary character in this story and the main character is named away. Who I think in other Arthurian Legends, I think she's like, What she's been Merlin's daughter? She's been Merlin's lover and in different iterations. And so we see the story from her point of view. And she's also Faith which is a little bit different because I don't think I don't remember too many other versions of any author and legends that I've watched where they have that magical element with the main characters except for Merlin, you know, Merlin has always Been

7:15 a magician and you know, a varying degrees like in this one when we first meet him, he doesn't even have his powers and you know, he has to go on this little journey to get his powers back and all this other stuff. But I think that was the one of the things that Drew me to the story. Because like Mike said, when you look at the promos and when you look at the promotional posters and all of this, it does have a young woman as the center character, and I thought I was like, okay, are they gonna do? Gender be awesome. Like that would be to me, I feel like that will be weird, it works and Other Stories but about King Arthur I didn't think that will work and then to find out that it was not actually about him. Like like I said, he's actually a secondary character and even, you know, there's a scene in one of the later episodes where they're talking and you know, he basically says well what if I meant To, like, hold you up?

8:16 What if I meant to make you great or something to that effect? And I was like this, you know? But um yeah, so you getting them away and she's the one that's willing this sort of power and you have Merlin who is for all intents and purposes a drunk when we first meet him and a smartass and which The most iterations of Merlin but I don't know, it's just mostly recent, he's he's a jerk. He's yeah, it is and he's a jerk. He's very much, a smartass in is my smartest person in the room.

8:58 He knows everything. Even when he's not, even when he's definitely, not the smartest person in room, he acts like he's the smartest person in the room and he somehow convinces, the smartest person in the room that he's not smartest person in the room. Yeah. But you know at the same time for a lot of well maybe not a lot of the show but at least the first like the second episode maybe third episode and kind of sprinkling he is he is surrounded by some idiots, King Uther being one of the shooters dumb if there's a product that is everything as it is and I forgot all about that. Until I started going back through my old show notes. And I was like, I was telling I was telling Anthony and Laurie. Before you got all my I said, I feel like we probably need another week to go, to go back and re-watch stuff, because I'm going through my notes and I'm like, there is so much that I forgot about this show, that was fun. Like, I remember how much we hated sister Iris, she was cause she was a nun, who was very jealous and also I think I think it was almost even how much we hate a sister Iris in front of the card and like it was based.

10:15 It was kind of it was almost neck to neck. Yeah. So you know in any of these types of stories you always have the religious zealots who are trying to eradicate kill, whatever a certain type of people and this show was no different. We had father Cardin and the red Paladin's who were a religious cleansing group, I guess is the best way to put it. Mmm there. Their mission was to eliminate the fame because the PHA wasn't you know I don't know. And I'm natural. They never they never really explained why not? Really no I think I think in the first episode we kind of get the gist because when we meet father Cardin he's sitting there with one of the FAE and the PHA is divided into different Factions or groups in this.

11:12 So you have like the moon phase and you have the, the forest, just all these different types. And he's sitting there talking to a little boy, he's talking about how unnatural and how, you know, they're meant to cleanse the Earth and blah, blah blah. He touches the little boy's hand with the leaf, and the little boy starts to turn green because that's kind of interesting, you know, which branch or which tribe he's part of, and it was just from there. Ron, like he made me hated that scene, oh my God, our Villages and to kill fat and it was just one of those where you route to hate someone and you root for someone to die and he was just one of those characters that we just did. He agree that we hate it.

12:00 And the show this show, did it show did a good job of establishing that he's not to be like like from the instant we meet and we're like this. Like the shows like this is for the card, you don't like him, you will not like him. So just go ahead and get your hate ready right now. I was like, fuck like it, like right off the bat, just like he just sitting there with a little boys talking and then he's like, yes. And summer goes in and then some are young. Then they snatched a boy of I'm like, oh God, like really irritate the fuck up. Well, I think when I was editing our will of Time episode 4, the first, I think it was the second episode.

12:46 We were talking about meeting the character of valda. And we mentioned, we were like, yeah, he's like the father Cardinal this show. So we like really hate this character, but there were other characters. Like, like we mentioned, And sister, Iris. She was a nun. Who was who was working in the sour raised in the same Convent as Morgana in this show and she wants to be a disciple of the red Paladin, so bad, but the rip paladins don't allow women, of course, they don't. But I mean not that I'm mad because of who they are, but she's one of those people where she was so evil.

13:28 She was like, okay, this is This is, this is my calling. This is what I'm supposed to do and she spends the majority of the show, going after them away. She kills her, you know, she sets fire to the convent kills her, her fellow sisters, and the Mother Superior and it He was one of those characters were, we were like, she's so fucking evil, but she was so young. That was the thing. We were like, we almost feel bad. Yeah. Because she's a young, she's a young girl. Like she has to be maybe 1617 somewhere around that she was so freaking evil. But You know, like I said it was the story is a coming-of-age story for them away because, you know, she when she was a young girl when she was around five years old, she was attacked by a demon possessed bear and it left its mark on her and she was basically shunned in her Village, you know? They they bullied her, they called her people. They said, did we?

14:37 Was he confirmed? It was a demon. Well demon, I think he was a spirits. Well, that's what they called it. And I mean the thing had red eyes. So let me appeal is this the easiest way to, I think that's when they kind of called it but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Like It was it was just I forgot what they called it but they were like it was trying to conceal. It was trying to gather magic the hidden that their magical source is here and you know it's like one of those things where Depending on how you look at it, she could have been chosen because I think the hidden chose her for specific purpose. It didn't.

15:29 And we see that Fe in the first episode because they have a they have a ceremony because the what they call the Summoner of the village had passed on and they were looking for the hidden to choose a new summer Summoner and it chose Nimoy and them away is like, I don't want this, they don't even like me here. They don't want me here. They've never wanted me here, and she runs away. And when she runs away, this is where she meets up with Arthur. This is also where she kind of exposes herself for being fake because she gets into a gambling match with somebody who is a Cutthroat and she kind of uses her powers to win this gambling match.

16:12 And when he realizes that she's Fae, you know, of course, they call her wish they'd chase her out. And so this is how she kind of meets up with Arthur. She spends time at this point running from the red paladins. Of course, the red Palin is not going from Village to Village killing all of the PHA and setting fire to their Villages. So the red Paladin show up at nimma, ways Village and of course they attack and kill a lot of the people. They they kill her mother. And you know while her mother is dying or before her mother's died, she gives her this sword and Tasks her with returning to sort of Merlin at this point.

16:55 Merlin is amidst, most people. And as we mentioned, he has lost his powers when we first meet him, like he hasn't had his powers and like 16 years. So it's one of those things where she has to go on this journey to find him. And of course, as she's on the journey to find him. She finds out things about herself, like the fact that Merlin is actually her father and, you know, the the sword is the source of Merlin's Our. But when he has the sword, he it kind of takes over him and to the point where he starts doing, maybe not straight evil again. I didn't get a chance to like really re-watch so you do know. He was bad.

17:39 He was abusive bad. Bad person. Oh my give it no. Yeah he killed like a see killed cities. He was like a bad mother fucker like he was he Was damn near. I mean, he was like, like, Omni powerful like thank you. Was overpowered the way they showed how he how he destroyed it. As he like, he was just like I mean that she was ridiculous. I remember that. Yeah. Yes and it's like he's if you are fan of Lord of the Rings it's almost like the sword was like the one ring. Yes he's like a discount Sauron has a ring and all of a sudden he wants to dominate everybody. Group, do families, and babies, and all this stuff. You know, it almost in a way the sword starts to influence them away, as well.

18:31 In the same way, because we seem like she starts having instances where she blacks out when she's using the sword, and she gets very violent. Usually in self-defense. Like the first time, we see her use the sword, she is fighting off these huge. Wolves that are trying to attack her. And to the point where They start naming her or rather father Cardon nicknames, heard the wolf blood, which because they're like, okay, one woman did this know. She had a powerful sword with her. Then next time we see her use her power with the sword, which we think she used the sword but you know it's when one of the red Paladin's is attacking her.

19:18 He's trying to choke her to death and we see her start to use her hidden powers and it kind of manifests itself in life. Leaves showing up. Like Vines think, think the more recent version of Carrie, where she has the black, the black veins that show up when she uses her power, or when she starts, the telekinesis them away is the same. But when we see her again, after she blacks out, the sword has been taken out of it. And I'm like, how does she do that? What she doesn't know either, but the next time we see that red Paladin, he is in a tree. Tree and the roots of the tree had been Twisted in him and you know the people at the convent, have a very hard time getting those routes out of him.

20:05 So yeah and it was I thought it was kind of interesting seeing You know, a lot of the times when we see the stories of author, at least the ones that I have seen, you know, Mike, I know you mentioned him earlier in the episode where you said, you know he's been depicted like in the beginning, when we meet him, he's a thief. He's a Cutthroat. He's, he's been banished or I won't say, but ya know, he was banished. He was banished from his home by his uncle. Who was the ruler, you know?

20:49 Because he got into some fights, he stole he did out this other stuff, but I think author has always been kind of one of those characters that is I don't want to say morally ambiguous ambiguous but he he's never been a character that's just good. You know. There, there are Shades of Grey to his character. If you look at a lot of the tales like the Camelot series that I love with Jamie Campbell Bower you know he has his nights and his loyal servants and he falls in love with the betrothed of one of Them you know, you see him going out and even though I don't consider this evil, he goes out and search for this Holy Grail and just kind of leaves his country to been for themselves.

21:44 It's kind of like he's always had been this, this character that's kind of and I like the fact that even though name away is not his character, they still show kind of that conflict with her. Whereas okay, she can be a good person. But she also has his Darkness to her. and I just, I thought that was fascinating because You see the different challenges? She has in the show, as far as wanting to wanting to kind of give up the sword wanting to kind of hide from the red paladins, not wanting to, she doesn't want to become this leader that, you know, she eventually becomes and it's just one of those things where it's kind of like, okay, You asked the question of whether her not wanting to serve even though it's kind of her Destiny.

22:38 What is that selfish or is it something that she supposed to do? Because for lack of better words with great power comes great responsibility, you know. But I don't know Laura, you've been a little quiet. What are you thinking about cursed like what was I think we covered? This show and 20/20. So it's been a little over two years now, and I know you haven't had a chance, like, go back and re-watch the show, but the little bits that you've seen, What are you thinking? I'm looking at this and I forgot about her best friend, you know the one that turns out him. I love him.

23:23 Turns out to be the bad girl and I'm thinking okay I miss this because we were so excited not for the season but for what we were going to get in the next season. Mmm, this is the problem. You have with Netflix because Netflix is sort of like their pox all over again. They don't give shows enough time to get an audience. And I think that if this would have debuted a little bit later on in the pandemic, it might have had a better chance to come back but it got cancelled early on because this thing was so awesome. But the same time yesterday was a lot of problems. Yes, there was different things going on. But all in all All if you want all the tropes to hit, you want all the different types of our Theory and themes to hit. This was pretty much perfect, but it doesn't hold up at the same time because like I said, if we had never seen Shadow and bone, this probably would have been my ish. I can't I can't agree with that.

24:33 It that it was almost perfect. I just can't because You know, big, there's some things that like Lancelot being fake and possibly get to the, yeah, we go. Okay, you know, I don't know, he's like, I keep thinking that we were going to probably find out if the sort of power was it may be Excalibur. Because of his connection to Merlin. And we know that a is caliber is more or less connected to the Lady of the Lake.

25:15 So maybe she comes up with her own swear, we'll we'll never know. But, I mean, you got to remember the way that the way that the show ended was Nim away falling into the river, even that far you know to I'm late overweight because in most in some versions of the King Arthur tail and then way raised Lancelot after his father died. Hmm. Now maybe this show was going to take a little different take on it since father, Cardin with his father and he's dead. So maybe now she's going to sort of, instead of being with author.

26:04 She's gonna be with Lancelot in season 2. Maybe that was the plan with him and Percival. That would have been weird though. I mean, okay. So but do you see what do you see? I'm Goin with this. Like they've already perverted the whole of thorium thing, you know it's like I say I actually liked the concept, this is some things just a little strange like what they did with the sword out going great Gawain and the Green Knight green. I'm like, he's dead, but he's, he's probably not dead. She really fight. He's also think it's like how many Roundtable nights are going to be Fae.

26:47 And author is not like we'll see you look at it like this. It's like that. The maybe this is a way to explain in the lore. How authors, how the Knights of the Round Table could defeat everybody. We're like, well, okay, there were Faith. So they had a natural Advantage. So if I do it as one say I do, Amber us going to the it's they liked the episode before last year like they, you were like, they better not say that the Weeping night is is Landslide. He's like, you were like they better not an hour. I remember you saying that. I was like, oh shit. I was like, they're probably gonna say that shit. I see it down here. It's gonna be sad, really, because I thought, but then it's like they bounce. Because, like, they had the kind of cool revealed that squirrel was Percival, where I was like, okay, I'm kind of go along. With that.

27:38 But then he then he, he said, what's your name? I was like, oh shit. Squirrel squirrel was one of our favorite characters and after re-watching the first two episodes I still say he's one of my favorite characters and he's one of the reasons why I was pissed. The show did not come back because yeah, smartass mouth to he did but he was so brave. I mean, squirrel, probably was what maybe a 9 in the show and you have use Noble. Yeah. Yeah, you haven't been taken hostage by the Weeping monk, who is basically?

28:19 He is this mysterious character who does most of the father card is bidding when it comes to not only killing phase but he has this unnatural ability of being able to find them. And of course later on in this in the show like towards the end of the season, we find out that the Weeping monk was actually fake and, you know, there's a, there's a scene where after nimma ways Village who which was also squirrels Village, he was one of them away his little friends and after their Village was burned, he was waiting in the wood, for them away and the Weeping monk actually catches him, and he's just sitting there and squirrel is just going off on him Hurley We insults, he spits on them. He was like, yeah.

29:12 They're going to find you and blah blah blah. I mean, this little kid, has some spunk. Yeah, he was one of my favorite parts of this show but yeah it's kind of like what you said as far as the nice being off a and say all I'm saying. But most of them I mean, think about it. Like you said Gawain was Faye. We find out there. Lancelot was actually the Weeping Monk and he was faced a squirrel was person. Ville. He will stay, and it's just kind of like, I'm trying to think they're there. Did we meet any others? No. Because I think we thought that they would probably show up in in the s bedivere and I can't remember.

29:58 I had a yeah go ahead yeah. Some of the ones I can't think of the names right now, right. But I thought that it was interesting that they made them Faye and then like you said, author is just this regular human at least as far as we knew you know he had the only thing I could think of was that he would be he would he was sort of combine the world's You know, and I think that's the direction we're going because towards the end, he was actually the one that was trying to get the faith to safety. He was trying to get them out of their lands and and across the seas so that they would be safe and here isn't it would have been like oh you're right, you're right. Oh yeah, after this is after he's already like hooked up with them away but um, yeah.

30:53 Yeah, I just really wanted with his want to see how office is gonna play out. You know, he's got this love affair with Nim way, and then the woman that he's eventually going to marry, you know, and Guinevere or maybe they would had Guinevere hook up with Lancelot, you mean, somehow end up with author and then chilled off with Landslide it. Then how does then we feed in August this is all. I don't know. The more I think about Realign them away was going to become the Lady of the Lake. Yeah, see you. But at some point she is but you know the chart charting these shows.

31:35 They go like six seasons, maybe five seasons. This one probably went five, maybe seven. Right? Yeah. Some point. But between this point and her becoming a hated the lake, there's so many other things that you either. Sort of have to happen or you have to imply that happens? Yeah, I mean, because it's some point Arthur as to become king and he's going to marry. I mean, if they're gonna, if you're gonna do Authority in legend, or you gonna do our thorian, tail author. Looks at week, one of year, period, right? That's the big one of your has an affair. Isn't she have any feelings that dude?

32:17 This is how it goes, right? You're right in author. Has to sleep with this. Stir and have a child. It's you know, which would not have worked well in this story because author and Morgan are actually like, very close. Morgana is a nun who she has an interesting tale. Well she deceives him to sleep with him so if you like stories. Yeah, but I mean, in this one I think it would have been weird. Well, Well, it wouldn't be a weird one because Morgana was very, obviously a lesbian in this one.

33:00 She had a girlfriend and that was one of the things that kind of I won't say contributed to the convent being burned down but sister Iris was looking at her like oh you're evil. You're part of this evil thing. Oh, and your friends with this face a, you've been. Yeah. Okay, yeah. So we need to take care of you. We need to take care of all of these people because the nuns were help. You know, they were safeguarding Them away even though some of the like I think the Mother Superior maybe a couple of other nuns knew she was Faye, they hid her from the red Paladin's and sister Iris was like, oh no, we're not doing that. So all of y'all are going to hell. I'm going to burn all of you to the ground. Oh fucking sister Iris who that little starting to remember and listen oh she was just pissed me off. Little something.

33:55 That's right. They had the whole girl with the magic and taking over the my yeah. It's coming back to me now to choose misguided. She wasn't evil. Yeah. She's an evil Snowden. I was like, she's a little kiss and it's like she not only burnt the convent down, like the doors, locked the doors, and lots of the doors so that they couldn't get out. Yeah, that bitch was evil. She's evil But yeah, well just because he had a relationship with the woman doesn't necessarily make her a lesbian and also we don't know. We don't know what, we don't know what happens. Like we wouldn't have known how becoming the daughter of death with affected her rifle State.

34:45 Anyway, You know me, I'm so mad that we will find this. Like, I was really interested to see where this was going to go, but she does have to deceive. Arthur, could have a baby with him. The baby grows up to fight him and kill him. So this is how it goes. Yeah, that would have been interesting to see what this but I don't know. I haven't read the book that the show is based on. I've been meaning to Like pick it up and read it just to see if it goes any further. But I don't, I don't think this one. I don't think, I think it's only one book that I know of so I don't know how far they, they may have planned to take the show. I don't know if I see it.

35:35 Going five or six seasons. Like it may have done a second season may have done, maybe three. And of course they probably would have just kind of rushed the story along as far as memoed be. Coming lady in the lake but I still feel like it had the potential to be a great show. Like it was a fun show and we watched. And of course, like you said, this was in the midst of the pandemic. Like we started this podcast, September of 2020. I think the first time we talked about the show, I think, Mike and I discussed it in like August because we were like, okay, we're going to watch this show and we're gonna, you know, do an episode because this was of what, when we were trying to figure out what we were going to be as a show and Mike and I try to discuss the whole season in one episode and we did a to our recording. And when I went to edit it, I was like, we didn't even touch the surface of all the stuff that was going on in the show, which is how we decided to start doing episodic episodes. Just so we can kind of get into the meat and potatoes of, you know what's going on.

36:45 But it The potential to be a really, really great show. And unfortunately, I hate to say it. The several shows that have to do with like these types of Tails and whatever. I feel like they weren't given a chance. Again, I'm going to mention Camelot because we will be talking about this show. If I have anything to say about it, that was one of the show's. I absolutely loved and I was like, oh I'm so excited. They need to do a second season and then of course they canceled it and I'm just like, you know that shows a chance. You know, I understand I can Stand. If, if the show was horrible and your numbers were horrible. But if you see that people have an interest about if people are talking about it, yeah it may not be a Game of Thrones or may not be the last of us or anything like that, but if the interest is there giving you the show a chance to find its footing? You know, sometimes you can't do that with just one season. There are a lot of shows that have ended after one season that were great show.

37:46 Oath and have the potential to be even better, you know, but I don't know. I I just this one is nostalgic for me, I think more so because like I said this was kind of one of our starting points as a podcast and we had a lot of fun discussing is like we had a lot of fun discussing you but it is interesting. Going back and revisiting it after some time has passed to see whether or not it, huh? Holds up to the way that we liked it at first. And that's not just with this show. I found that with a lot of shows, like there's some shows that I watch, and when I go back, I have a different perspective on it, whether it's a good perspective or a bad perspective, like, oh, this show, really wasn't as great as I thought it was, or maybe to show wasn't as bad as I thought it was. You know, it happens every once in a while. I still like what I remember about the show. But yeah, I'm kind of bummed it that we didn't get a second season.

38:46 I do appreciate. Oh, I do appreciate the thorian stuff because you know, we can never have too much. Like right, you know, we the spreadsheet. I'm sitting there, I'm entering the ones that I like and then I found all the ones that I don't like talking about anyone elses list, but, you know, there's some some pretty bad ones on there. Look, I'm still pissed. That we didn't get a second season and I will forever be pissed because I was getting into it. I was fully invested in this series like the whole time. Just like, I mean Merlin Merlin was like really intriguing to me the way they portrayed him as where they gave him like a mini Redemption Arc where he's like a drunk ne'er-do-well.

39:38 He can't do any magic. Then he comes around and realizes that he has a daughter and he tries to actually be a good father. Or in his own way and then it's like, you didn't you go back and you see where he came from, like he was actually a bad person and he actually came back from that like you know and that's like and that's something that is like not really told in most author Ian Tails. It's like they never really say that he was evil and he killed people. It's like you don't really hear that. In most Arthurian Tales is like, usually, he's just a magician and he's like, oh well, I think in this one, he character a lot of times because if you think about the the many City, the Merlin miniseries, they came out in the 90s. I mean he did Why did my mind just go blank? But basically he used the spell to disguise someone To be Gwen Wayne's husband so that he could bet her and I was like wait so oh this is this is horrible, there's a but there's a there's a difference between helping somebody commits adultery and killing people.

41:00 Yeah. Don't you see? He's like he's starts off like this one. They just take it to an extreme. He starts off as good with good. And use perverted somehow in the things to him. Did not necessarily bad they're just you know the means to an end here that think this one. If I'm not mistaken something happened and the fake-out upset. So they attack room. It was something weird but he wasn't he didn't. He just got corrupted. He didn't start off. His eat when he's right, but we, but we didn't realize he was evil and tried to stop it. What it was like, he was forced to. I mean, there's, there's several fantasy novels that they were, they take the Mage that is either lawful good neutral or good, and they slowly, or forcefully, turn them into being bad.

42:00 And that's exactly what they did. They use that Trope where he was his back, was up against the wall, he had to do something, and it was a bad, and he just never got back from cap. But the thing that I found one, I forgot about this which was interesting is that this series did something that a lot of them, don't it really did not focus on Arthur at all. I mean we got Arthur but you've got Nimble a, you've got, you've got Merlin, you've got everyone else and it was a very interesting take because I think that this is something that we hadn't seen before or very rarely and like they're showing the kid, like the little kid with the Elvish, the kid that she sings. Remember, they went back. Yes. They went back into the cave with the people and she's declaring herself to be, you know, basically the queen of all. I mean it was a very interesting take with everything that they did.

42:51 And I get, I'm sad that we didn't get another season. But you know if what would I just randomly throw this on the background while I'm doing something? Yeah. Probably. Would I get through all of it? I would probably get through most of it and I remember it was cancelled, I might go something else but yeah, I would definitely watch this. Yeah, I'm here but I think my point was that it's like it's still kind of a different like this whole curse, the whole show is basically gives you a different story about most of the most of the characters in Arthurian Legends. Like Arthur wasn't black in Arthurian Legend, but he's black here. Neither was Morgana and she's black here. I was going to mention.

43:32 This was one of the, this was one of the first shows I think in this new wave of fantasies shows that had a diverse fried cast, right? And I can appreciate that. It's like, and like Lancelot being a PHA in like killing other. Faith is like that wasn't, that wasn't in most Arthurian Legends either. It's like, it's just a different way of telling it and I can I really appreciated that just because it's not, it's not the same thing, it's not it's not. You're sitting there like okay, King Arthur gets the sword. He's a king. Okay. Okay, he dies, Berlin help. Okay. Morgana's evil. She's good for. Okay.

44:13 Yeah. But it's like it's different. It feels it felt like a different telling of the Arthurian Legend. It felt fresher to me. It's like his other than just telling the story again, it's just like it's kind of like with brother was telling the story again but the characters were younger. They weren't like older as far as being where they were in life, they were young like there were almost teenagers basically, in the See series Merlin, but this end this is kind of the same way to me. It's like just basically an origin story is a prequel to The Other ithorian ithorian tails. Yeah, I think one of the things that I really want to see in the second season, like I mentioned, we didn't see a lot of author in this one because this wasn't his story.

45:00 It was Nimoy story, but you did see a little bit of Arthur maybe being on the path to who he would become. But I have the third episode playing in the background and I was like, yo, I really wanted to see him fight more because his skill his skills with a sword. We're pretty fucking amazing. That was like oh that would have been interesting to see but all we never got weeping muck and author fighting. I think about it, briefly briefly yeah briefly. Right. But I mean it there were so many good things about this that I did. Like we got introduced to another Skarsgard from well for most of us because I don't think Gustaf Skarsgård had done a lot here. Not that I know like this was the first thing that I remember seeing him prominently in and then I think after cursed is when he started doing Vikings and know this was his first, didn't he?

46:19 They Vikings is like further up, but I see, ya Vikings is 2013, but yes, so I know a lot of people know him from that but I hadn't watched that show. So this was the first time I had really gotten to see him. And I was like, okay, so that family is just talented all around like every single one of them. But yeah, the character, the character that he's playing here, I think is a better character for him because In Vikings, he was sort of constraints of being Floki, and being the boat, and she'll ship maker and all that. But in this, it really gives him a really good range until it kind of hate to say this kind of makes him a better actor than Alexander, you know, just brother and True Blood, you know?

47:05 So least that's my yeah, and it also also it's like this is the time when the scars guards were really coming into their own. Like this is when Bill was coming out of him like Grove and getting into Pennywise and their The father was in Mamma Mia place for years. Yeah, exactly. So it's like so then so this is like right in the in the realm of Skarsgard domination as it were and like being on Netflix like you know I mean they were they were freaking everywhere on Netflix almost like they don't own stock in it. Like they were majority stockholders. Are like it's for my show own. Goddamn it, it's good. It's my show. Just, you know, I got stopped. Yeah, I don't know, like I said, it's this is one of those shows where Where it would have been nice to see where they were going to go with it. But it's all we can do is speculate now or read the book which I probably.

47:59 Like I said I probably will end up doing just because I want to see if there was more but there were certain things I really did like about it, you know again them away being the main character instead of you know the tale focusing on this man as it always does. I like the PHA aspect of it. It that was interesting. The reveals of landslides and Percival were, I think by the end it wasn't really a shocking because I think both you and Anthony, Mike. I think both of y'all kind of started speculating that, that's what will be. I know Anthony was the one who was really like spot-on. Like yeah, the whimpers monk, he's going to be like, yeah, I got to get busy that theory.

48:46 I couldn't, I can't take take, I can't take credit for that theory. I gotta go. Yeah, that was back. When Anthony was really still doing here. They no longer exist. I think there's so many good Arthurian Legend Tails out there, like, we actually have a spreadsheet going because we're trying to figure out. So the plan is to discuss one per month. Just because there's so many out there and we were trying to figure out how we were going to narrow this down, so we actually have a list of potential discussion topics. And I think everybody's done like four or five, you know just kind of throwing some out there and then we'll decide which ones were going to do but also for those of you who are listening, if this is something you're interested in want to hear our you know our take on something kind of let us know in the comments wherever you're listening to this. To whether it's Spotify or YouTube or on our Facebook page. Let us know what you want to hear us discuss. You know.

50:11 Some of the suggestions like Why have the 98 version of Merlin? Which is a which was, I think it back then it was like a six-part miniseries. So I have that one. Of course Camelot because everybody who listens to this knows I'm a huge. Jamie Campbell Bower fit the fan. I have Monty Python and the Holy Grail, The Sword in the Stone, the Disney version and the green that we got talking about, I love that's what I might be. My favorite one is one sort of stone. Okay. Yeah, Anthony has Excalibur, he has the 2004 version of King Arthur with Clive Owen. The last Legion and The Mists of Avalon, which technically speaking is an Arthurian Tale, But it taught it.

50:58 Focuses on the women and Arthur's life. And then Mike has A Knight's Tale. He has King Arthur the version with Charlie Hunnam. In it first night, Shrek, did you really quit? Shrek, the Third Reich. It's a thorium, I'm not a big Shrek fan but I don't know if we if we if we do it towards the end it'll make sense after we go through obvious. Okay. Those mobile and Mike also has The Sorcerer's Apprentice and the Librarians and Lori's less.

51:44 She has Merlin the BBC series letter for the king, Connecticut. Yankee in King Arthur's Court. Black Knight. She has the two-part King Arthur crackling The Martin. Lawrence Black Knight laughed out loud. I've screwed the spreadsheet over and I saw the black night, I literally flawed my chest right there. So we'll start kind of discussing those and maybe eliminating them, you know, eliminating some off the list, you know, and try to decide which ones are going to be the entertaining ones.

52:38 I think we have already decided that Black Knight Will Maybe one of the well, one of the remaining 11, I already know Camelot is going to be one of them because I said, so we have to King Arthur's on here. So, those two might be, you know, selected to compare and contrast. And I think we have to do a Merlin, like, we have to sew. And the one, the one from 98 is a classic but the miniseries is also a good One. I think I watch like maybe two episodes of the BBC series and I just couldn't get into it.

53:19 I don't know if it was that I wasn't. It takes longer than two episodes. Yeah, told me that too. So, it takes most of the first season was like, once you once you get into it, it's like, they fly by. Oh, yeah, you got to get over the way that they portray Arthur as being just this jock. And if you can see, He's like totally like the quarterback team captain. Like, like I'm always right and Arthur you sniveling, little blah, blah, blah, and and authors literally, the one that saves his ass every day you guys say Arthur, at first, Arthur was the one that I've been more Merlin, Merlin, Merlin saves his ass, constantly and episode, and it's it. And and, and honestly, even though it is one of my favorite television shows ever, I'm still trying to figure out. Out.

54:13 How did whatever fall over him again? I mean make any sense. I mean, it makes it easy to understand why she fell from Lancelot. Yeah, exactly exactly yeah, yeah, cuz who that that was not the best one because whatever's Finest - I'll get outta here too. That's the only major acting that she's done for. What I can tell you is that she doesn't really done anything since then and I don't know why because she was It? Wait. I just thought about something isn't is Gallagher and authoring, okay? Hmm. Thought about the musical that the Musical one drink?

54:54 Yeah, I think so, which Anthony is probably like, no, no, no. Well, I'm glad. I'm yes, it is. Yes, yes it is. I'm going, I'm going, I'm going to Advocate. I know you kind of went over. It kind of quick but I am going to Advocate that if you There's some good old-fashioned fun, the two-parter that MacGyver did in the back, in the day, he gets hit on the head and he winds up. Wakes up in King Arthur time. You can't a lot and it's a two-part and they were highly entire time. They filmed and wrote These two episodes. The cool thing about what I like about, Thorium things is that they basically is the foundation of what fantasy is.

55:40 We you talk about the search for the The the holy grail and the Knights of the Round Table is is literally this orphan who has a magic sword who goes on the quest to find a magic item. And that's like everything that you read this fantasy basically Falls in that category like Star Wars. I can make argument is Star Wars. I'm touring the big it is. I've heard that before. Yeah, almost all fantasy. Use of thorium. Just by the way, it's written this, by the way, with the entails. Yeah, there are parallels in everything, I mean. That's why I put a nice job.

56:22 Nice old really is done anything to do with King Arthur, but we look at it. It is Arthurian in what it in, how the story is told, I mean, I literally started to put Star Wars Harry Potter. Absolutely. Let me stop. But yeah. I mean, we might And our favorite sci-fi fantasy sci-fi fantasy titles. I mean we could do an episode like on that that would just just draw parallels. Yeah, and then the other, the other thing that is I have two on my list is the the popular one, where you go to sleep, you get hit on the head and you wake up and you're in a different time and place in your Camelot. That's what Black Knight.

57:07 That's what the MacGyver episodes. Those are also a lot of fun because it gives you the Oh, I actually have three because I've Got A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court. So I guess that's what I guess. It's my favorite theme for King Arthur is that we're going to end up doing black better. We I mean the way that y'all reacts I don't I don't think I've seen black night. Oh you need to see a raving Yahoo reacted to it. I'm like, okay that's definitely going to be one because the way you're looking at me now you're like wait wait. Hey. I was thinking more along the lines of Oh, is Technicolor the old though?

58:23 They did. I think they did one in the 50s. That was pretty good. But yeah. That was I forgot about that one too. But yeah. So yeah that was I guess know which one you're talking about Lori. Yeah yeah okay yeah. So we have plenty to choose from and just because you said, no Anthony. We are going to do what if I say no to I could say I could supported me on this one, I just think it would be funny to look at it from a different point of view, a different genre and a different. Yeah. I think that well I guess I'm not opposed to it. We don't have to we don't have to like them all. I mean we can sit here and watch it and roast it.

59:04 I mean that's fine, it'll it'll make for a very interesting and humorous episode, it's a prime Martin Lawrence and his campea said, I mean, we're talking Going big head. Everything. This is perfect. Oh yeah. Well he does dance to the music. Like with a friggin String Band is like with with a medieval band it's like oh God it's cringy but is actually kind of cool. But yeah that is definitely going to be one of the ones that we do will probably put that towards the end. Kind of with Shrek. The Third actually I hate When I was just like, why am I watching this again? I just single one was on the best ones. I'll take your word for it.

59:59 Oh my God. What's a fairy godmother? Come on now, I'm just I just wasn't will see that back that throughout another side thing and I had to rein myself in when I was putting my lips together because I said that Mark is like the other officials suggestor of things and he was like well what about Once Upon a Time go that's not strictly King. Arthur is that's fairytale. It's completely different. But usually my dad. I sat there with a man.

1:00:57 To being a ding, a damn doctor with the red sphere, almost the pirate Queen. I mean, she was there, you know, right. She was going to just see that we could have just seen on Tire spin off series with just her. You know, I ain't old loved it. I would probably know about it that would love her. See. I mean, she basically pull every scene they shoot her and squirrel. Like, yeah, well, I would watch the whole thing with her and squirrel. Just getting in trouble and getting out of trouble. Yeah, well before I every for every pin in a series, it was a fisher king. Same with someone just oh my god. Oh he was so creepy relevant to the story who's chronically relevant just thrown in as just some you know nod to something. You know.

1:01:45 Let's just try to make it. There was one of the things they had about the right thing. It's like sometimes you just put things in just to have them in there and it's like but it made no significant Improvement. Me into the story right at all, right? Yeah. Why even have the fisher king in it? If you aren't really going to do anything with it. Yeah. Probably just a creep people out and have a Min and to just add an attack. They mean basically it was just adding antagonist. Basically that's all it was. It's just this have someone that's just make him an assassin, let's put them into episodes and kill them off quick. That's basically all he did to me.

1:02:25 He's in the compass of sassy can't even Merlin right. Like exactly man. Been in the chest with his Emperor and he kills you, if Merlin so a depowered Merlin, no, well, a poison arrow at that, whatever. That's neither here, nor there. Yeah. I just like I said, I don't have to be a little bit better than you, remember it. You didn't go back and re-watch it. So maybe I watched bits and pieces males and I think I'm, I think I'm actually going to go back and listen to our, I listen to our our podcast episodes on it. I think I was cautiously optimistic. You were at first?

1:03:26 Yeah, I want to go back and I'm Alyssa. I want to listen to what we did on the next to last episode to hear hear what you have to say about Lancelot. And just to hear you say they better, not know what happened was. I was cautiously optimistic, I knew was going to be attraction. Y'all suck me in? Maybe I think it was good. Yeah, cuz I do it was good. Yeah, you were not very excited about the first few episodes. Then kind of in the middle you were like, okay it's getting there but of course you know what what is it that we always say You Gotta Give a show like at least four episodes, see how it's going to be and like by episode 4 5 6 right around there we were like oh okay in there and again good, you know.

1:04:15 Yep. Um and then, I guess, You know, the powers that be at Netflix was like, nope, we're not going to do this anymore. See, this is what you get for - thinking Anthony C, negative Vibes, have have consequences, they have consequences, sir, that's not right? Because at the time I had Positive Vibes, I was thinking of the show was getting on the rails. It was gonna be okay. Everything was fine. And then, you know, you you're thinking you're a public key for it, privately against it. I know what, I know. What's. That know what happened? No, what happened? Well, you know, the thing is that with Netflix I think that they got to the point where they thought that anything that they put out, they were just going to get instantly, all of these people watching the shows and then when the the they start putting out more and more content and it's to the point now where there's so much content that if you want to watch like, say the top 10, it's going to take you all weekend long, just to get through certain things and then other things like say the Jeffrey Dahmer thing, sir. Certain people, you know, like me. I'll never watch it for the other people. Like one of my friends, watched it twice. I mean, they literally threw stuff against the wall to see, you know, what, they could do and not do. And I think that that's the problem is that, like you like the Winx Academy, you've had chat, you've got shallow and Bone, you've got the different things, the different, the letters for the king that got one season. I mean, Netflix, I think had a

1:05:45 had, a problem with putting out too much, too fast and not. Really letting people sort of take their time and find their way over to these different shows because they've got a significant amount of fantasy. I mean stuff we don't even talk about like Warrior none. What was that really cool? One, the will assassins, I mean they got a lot of fantasy. They really do, but none of it last. But I think was important to, I think this was also to, like, right at the beginning or right before Netflix Did put it like Netflix right now is one of the biggest like they have one of the biggest catalogs of original programming, right?

1:06:27 And a lot of their stuff is good, but I think maybe this came in like, right before I think you're right. Yeah, that way, you know, everybody was still doing and, you know, this may have had something to do with them being counseled to. Again, this came out this summer that the pandemic right starts. So you Still had a lot of Productions who by November, we're not filming. And were, you know, if they were filming, they were filming with very skeletal Cruise. You know, you still had limits on how many people could be on set. So, I believe this show may have been, you know, just kind of falling victim to that as well. Because it doesn't that's a real big part of, you know, what was going to happen.

1:07:14 This is true. I think like this, and the October faction were to show Shows there. Yeah yeah. Got hit hard guy hit by the pandemic. Like they kind of just got cut and sit by the wayside because they had to short down what they were doing was fire. Those that they literally were in the middle of covid and they literally had a rush to get everything done. I mean, you could tell you know.

1:07:55 But now that we're we're, you know, two and a half, three years, you know, past the initial stages. I almost want to say if I was in charge of Netflix, I would say. Okay guys, we're finally, you know, everyone's quote, unquote back outside. We're trying to get things back to normal. How about this? How about we hold a contest for like say the month of February, whatever show too. Three shows are the top ranking shows that get the most viewers, maybe we can talk to the people and if they're not employed elsewhere, maybe we can give them a finale season. I mean that would be kind of cool to do. You know? Who shows what is that? It's a cool concept.

1:08:36 But at the same time it's kind of like like for this show for curse. I don't know if it will work because one you've been out almost three years now. So the characters. Yeah. And you know, especially if Ghani you've done other projects for some people. It's hard to come back to those types of characters which you know we see it. It does happen. Sometimes it happens in a good way. Sometimes not so good. It's kind of like you kind of just left that the way it was and whatever momentum they had is gone. Yeah, that's true. That's true. Why I was just throwing stuff out there, so but yeah, I just, I just feel that like Fox back in the day, Netflix has a problem of canceling too soon and then in hindsight they were like, oh, I mean, because they'll throw money at Adam Sandler all day long. Okay.

1:09:28 And oh, by the way, the murder mystery with him and Jennifer Aniston part 2 is coming out this year, which is like, Yay. But that was actually pretty good. The first one they, they're very funny and as far as fancy cross you know King Arthur Legends. I mean there's been stuff that I've seen that I know has been You know, basically inspired by it, we love time, you know? Hmm. You could tell that it's just, it's one of our favorite things and I'm kind of glad that we're doing these doing these shows. Because, you know, except you know, the sad thing is that my favorite book of the whole thing is mr.

1:10:11 Van a lot, but because of the writers personal history, I'm sad that we can't delve into it because if anyone really Ali took some of the ideas and just explore. It was home. Yeah that one of those like there was a period. I think during the pandemic before we started the show and I had reached out to people, I just put a Facebook post. I was like, okay. So I've seen a lot of shows dealing with Arthurian Legend but I haven't read a lot of the books. I was like, okay, so what would you suggest and that was the one that got recommended the most they were like, okay yeah so the authors problematic You're going to find that out like hella problematic but it's one of the best books about Arthurian Legends that he did a heck of a job writing that whole year I mean just glued to those books just glued you know yeah but I mean I think you know I think it can still be discussed as as the work and we can still talk about what trash the author is.

1:11:18 I mean that's it's one of the things about discussing works with problematic people. It's one thing, if you kind of ignore what the author, what the artist is doing. But if you say okay hey, yeah. So we're going to talk about this but please know this author is trash or this person is trash. I don't know. It's just, that's a great job. Trying to trying to separate the artist from the art The same discussion we had about see who will not be named who will not be named yes you know had that discussion and Robert who's spending time in confinement presently. No one wants to listen to his music anymore, but some people still do, is this one of those things you and they'll talk about his piss me off.

1:12:15 You know what? I think it's different for me is different. Aunt, discussing him and his work as opposed to the others because with she, who must not be named and with the author for Miss of Avalon, their personal issues, and the things that they are, you know, being problematic for doesn't bleed into the work. So, I think, for me, it'll be is one of my favorite favorite albums. It The big number album in the 90s. I can't listen to it now because I'm like because of the implication. Yes.

1:12:57 So I can't I can't listen to it. So that's I think it just depends. Like I said you can people can have their work and it not whatever they believe or whatever they they've done. It doesn't bleed into it, right? Everything we talked about this for me and I did my birthday episode with battle beyond the stars you go. Go back far enough in time. And even in modern history, you didn't find a lot of things that are going to be problematic. Whether it be the artist, the director of the words, you know, and and and if there's nothing wrong with taking a personal stance against it is perfectly fine.

1:13:39 This is well, it seems that we sometimes have to think about. Yeah, well and like I love I love in his game but we're some Scott Carl, exactly. That's true. Example, that's literally a perfect example. I am being freaking freaking HP. Lovecraft is like. Well yeah, well the thing is is that if you know, we're talking about the TV shows, movies fiction, I mean the offshoot of just the Arthur, we're talking about with mr. Val on her influence on, just Mercedes Lackey, who's one of my favorite writers, just the whole valdemar's theories, the Herald's, the the offshoot series, The Al flight, With the, the whole things with the the paladins and the and the the interior of the tower, it's just Mage Wars.

1:14:26 I mean, you could clearly see a direct influence between the right of, of Mists of Avalon and Misty, lackeys World building that she did for valve, or it's just a direct line. I mean, even the new series which they're doing to history of valdemar it just you could tell that it's all the tropes for King either. I mean, I can even go as far as say that some of the things that are in John. Moscow's. He's work with the last a jury to infer knock. Seriously just did I mean it's all over the place because the influence was. So when I hate Shannara that even that has elements of it, you know I mean it's I think the only one and I'm probably going to take a hit for this. I think the only one that doesn't really have a Lord of the Rings type of a theme would be more of the Rings. Or am I wrong?

1:15:24 What you're saying what I'm saying? That's interesting. Yeah, I didn't say it. Well sorry, it's okay. Yeah. But anyway, we getting off that tangent. Yeah, we're going to sit here and discuss which shows films. You know, we're going to discuss over the next 11 months. Again if you are listening and you have some suggestions, what Arthurian Legends are your favorite tales and you know what would you like to hear us discuss? And you know there may be a couple of months where maybe we won't focus on just one. Maybe we'll take to like I said there to King Arthur's on the list and maybe we'll just watch those and kind of compare contrast, you know just to see how different or how similar they are.

1:16:14 But either way it goes we're just going to have fun talking about Arthurian Legends. There's a lot of content out there so we got a Figure out a way to narrow it down to 11 but I don't think we'll have too much of a problem doing that, you know what? We'll see. We'll see how it goes. But I think that is going to be it for our discussion of curse. Like I said, it was a fun show and it's nostalgic for us because it was one of our first. And yeah, it would have been nice to see what they could do with the second season but unfortunately we won't get that. So Got to move along to the next one. We know that Arthurian Legends media is not anything that's going to be lacking any time soon.

1:17:03 You know, we've got lots to choose from and there's probably some, you know, projects coming up. So we'll kind of see how that goes. And like I said, we'll discuss which ones we want to talk about next. But for now that is it for our show, you can find us online at I'm harboring.com, we are on social media on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at Phantom hybrid. You can chat with us on our Discord Channel, you can watch us on our YouTube channel and you can listen to us on all major podcast streaming platforms. Thanks for listening, we hope you join the conversation next time.